[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Gillam wrote: he was more interested in truth as he saw it than in converting someone else. Surely you can see how the two can coexist. This last sentence doesn't make sense. It should be, Surely you can appreciate the difference. Thanks. I liked the first version better. :-) And the reason I liked it better is that my life experiences have shown me that the word truth is basically an illusion, a name we put on our current state of attention and point of view. I honestly don't believe that there is such a thing as Truth with a capital T. In my earlier post, I wasn't really talking about the letter from Iran's President per se, but about the nature of spiritual conversations, and what you said about LBS. The point I was trying to make is that arguing for your position is great if you only have one position. But I'm capable of holding multiple positions on the same subject at once, each one of them approp- riate to a particular state of attention. Because I've *had* to (I worked with a teacher who, however he managed to do it, could just blow your small-s self right out of its socks, over and over and over, as quickly as you can snap your fingers. So you'd be sitting there in one state of attention, convinced you know the truth about the thing being discussed, and then snap! you'd move into another state of attention in which there was a completely different truth. And then snap! he'd do it again, and again, and again, until after five minutes you'd have seen and experienced ten or twelve different states of attention, and ten or twelve different truths. So now...which one of them is Truth? The only sense I've been able to make of the whole experience is that all of them are, *from the state of attention for which they represent truth*. From another, they are not. I readily admit that in some conversations there is an aspect of factual truth that can be main- tained and argued about. But in spiritual dis- cussions, to me truth is and will always be relative. Two people can be presenting completely opposite points of view on a subject and *both* of them are correct. That's why I brought up the example of the other discussion group I'm a part of sometimes where almost all of the participants feel this way, and no one argues and tries to sell his or her particular flavor of truth. They just present their point of view, and then the next person presents theirs, and no one tries to say that one is better or more correct or more true than another. I find it refreshing. In the case of this particular letter, I agree with you that the US would be better served by listening to what the President of Iran is saying, and trying to figure out who they're really dealing with, instead of imagining it based on their prejudices. And if they disagree with him on some points (which of course they would), they could reply presenting their version of things, their truth. In an ideal world, they could do this without trying to paint him as a bad guy or a liar because they disagree on these points; he could present his point of view and they could present theirs, and allow the lurkers to choose which they preferred. But we know that ain't gonna happen. International affairs are all too often like FFL; some people feel compelled *to* sell their point of view as the best or the most true, and compelled at the same time to paint anyone who doesn't agree with that point of view as a bad guy, or a liar, or stupid, or whatever. The sad reality is that the US won't even go as far as to *listen* to what this guy says. They'll just start painting him as a bad guy without even reading it. But the point I tried to make yester- day was really oriented more to spiritual discus- sion groups like this one, where I think -- or hope -- that we have more flexibility, and can discuss things on a different level. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
Responses interleaved below. --- TurquoiseB wrote: my life experiences have shown me that the word truth is basically an illusion, a name we put on our current state of attention and point of view. ... Fairfield Life has given me a strong appreciation of the malleability of truth. As a result, when I do the work of Byron Katie, the answers to those first two questions usually come easily. Is it true? Can you absolutely know that it's true? In that sense, FFL has been an important part of my growth in the last five years. arguing for your position is great if you only have one position. ... Two people can be presenting completely opposite points of view on a subject and *both* of them are correct. This has led to some maddening exchanges here. Someone would be taking Rory Goff to task, for instance, about some claim he made about Brahman consciousness, and Rory would respond with, Yeah, what you say is true, too. It's the Jaimini thing that Tom Traynor champions. That's why I brought up the example of the other discussion group I'm a part of sometimes where almost all of the participants feel this way, and no one argues and tries to sell his or her particular flavor of truth. They just present their point of view, and then the next person presents theirs, and no one tries to say that one is better or more correct or more true than another. I find it refreshing. I had a few graduate school seminar classes like that. People would just go around the table and speak from their points of view (except for the Asians, who would not speak at all). There was no discussion, no questioning, no unpacking of the underlying beliefs that formed those opinions. I found it boring. If everyone already accepts that all those points of view are true, then fine, listen and move on. But sometimes the dialectic helps people arrive at that conclusion that all these different perspectives and truths have their places. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: --- Gillam wrote: he was more interested in truth as he saw it than in converting someone else. Surely you can see how the two can coexist. This last sentence doesn't make sense. It should be, Surely you can appreciate the difference. Thanks. I liked the first version better. :-) And the reason I liked it better is that my life experiences have shown me that the word truth is basically an illusion, a name we put on our current state of attention and point of view. I honestly don't believe that there is such a thing as Truth with a capital T. In my earlier post, I wasn't really talking about the letter from Iran's President per se, but about the nature of spiritual conversations, and what you said about LBS. The point I was trying to make is that arguing for your position is great if you only have one position. But I'm capable of holding multiple positions on the same subject at once, each one of them approp- riate to a particular state of attention. Because I've *had* to (I worked with a teacher who, however he managed to do it, could just blow your small-s self right out of its socks, over and over and over, as quickly as you can snap your fingers. So you'd be sitting there in one state of attention, convinced you know the truth about the thing being discussed, and then snap! you'd move into another state of attention in which there was a completely different truth. And then snap! he'd do it again, and again, and again, until after five minutes you'd have seen and experienced ten or twelve different states of attention, and ten or twelve different truths. So now...which one of them is Truth? The only sense I've been able to make of the whole experience is that all of them are, *from the state of attention for which they represent truth*. From another, they are not. I readily admit that in some conversations there is an aspect of factual truth that can be main- tained and argued about. But in spiritual dis- cussions, to me truth is and will always be relative. Two people can be presenting completely opposite points of view on a subject and *both* of them are correct. That's why I brought up the example of the other discussion group I'm a part of sometimes where almost all of the participants feel this way, and no one argues and tries to sell his or her particular flavor of truth. They just present their point of view, and then the next person presents theirs, and no one tries to say that one is better or more correct or more true than another. I find it refreshing. In the case of this particular letter, I agree with you that the US would be better served by listening to what the President of Iran is saying, and trying to figure out who they're really dealing with, instead of imagining it based on their prejudices. And if they disagree with him on some points (which of course they would), they could reply presenting their version of things, their truth. In an ideal world, they could do this without trying to paint him as a bad guy or a liar because they disagree on these points; he could present his point of view and they could present theirs, and allow the lurkers to choose which they preferred. But we know that ain't gonna happen. International affairs are all too often like FFL; some people feel compelled *to* sell their point of view as the best or the most true, and compelled at the same time to paint anyone who doesn't agree with that point of view as a bad guy, or a liar, or stupid, or whatever. The sad reality is that the US won't even go as far as to *listen* to what this guy says. They'll just start painting him as a bad guy without even reading it. But the point I tried to make yester- day was really oriented more to spiritual discus- sion groups like this one, where I think -- or hope -- that we have more flexibility, and can discuss things on a different level. Good stuff. Thanks. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip This has led to some maddening exchanges here. Someone would be taking Rory Goff to task, for instance, about some claim he made about Brahman consciousness, and Rory would respond with, Yeah, what you say is true, too. It's the Jaimini thing that Tom Traynor champions. Is what Jaimini said true? ;-) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- authfriend wrote: --- jim_flanegin wrote: However his overall tone was both truthful and respectful in my opinion. I wasn't commenting on anything more than that...and the obvious contrast between the POV expressed through the President of Iran's letter and the haughty, condescending, and threatening responses we've seen from Rice But that's the *game*, don't you see? He acts all humble and respectful and religious knowing perfectly well how they're going to respond, knowing it'll make him look good to the rest of the world and the Bushies look bad. A few years ago we had a regular contributor to this forum called L B Shriver. L B was real good about engaging posters of all stripes, no matter how ideologically slanted they may have been. He was the kind of guy who'd invite in religious proselytizers who'd knock on his door. L B would engage in respectful conversation, but he'd also kick your head off if he felt such a response was called for. We have people here now who do the same. Over time, L B influenced me and, I think, others who frequent this forum. Anyway, I think the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad letter should be given the L B treatment. Take it seriously and reply point by point. When Mahmoud condemns the September 11 attacks, thank him like a brother. When he snarkily denies the Holocaust, rake him over the coals. And keep at it over the years in a continued dialogue, as L B did. However, I don't expect the Bushies to conduct our nation's affairs with the wisdom shown in a run- of-the-internet newsgroup. Pity. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few years ago we had a regular contributor to this forum called L B Shriver. L B was real good about engaging posters of all stripes, no matter how ideologically slanted they may have been. He was the kind of guy who'd invite in religious proselytizers who'd knock on his door. L B would engage in respectful conversation, but he'd also kick your head off if he felt such a response was called for. We have people here now who do the same. Over time, L B influenced me and, I think, others who frequent this forum. Anyway, I think the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad letter should be given the L B treatment. Take it seriously and reply point by point. When Mahmoud condemns the September 11 attacks, thank him like a brother. When he snarkily denies the Holocaust, rake him over the coals. And keep at it over the years in a continued dialogue, as L B did. Just to play Deva's advocate :-), doesn't this imply a desire, or a need, to convert either the person one is interfacing with or the lurkers to what you consider the right or correct point of view? That sounds a lot like small-s self and ego to me. I guess it's fun, if you get off on that sort of thing, but another kind of dialogue consists of each person presenting his or her view, followed by others who present *their* point of view, but without trying to rip the first poster a new asshole. Those who compulsively try to convince others that they are right and someone else is wrong seem to me to be missing an essential component of human interaction, not to mention humility. I've been on spiritual discussion boards that are *completely* like the model I present above, where no one argues. Ever. People may have completely contradictory points of view, and express them, but at the same time *all* they do is present their point of view, *as* a point of view. No one claims that their point of view is some kind of truth, no one becomes a proselytute pushing his or her point of view. I find it refreshing, but that could just be me... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
Forwarded to LB. he'll appreciate your comments. on 5/10/06 8:11 AM, Patrick Gillam at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- jim_flanegin wrote: However his overall tone was both truthful and respectful in my opinion. I wasn't commenting on anything more than that...and the obvious contrast between the POV expressed through the President of Iran's letter and the haughty, condescending, and threatening responses we've seen from Rice But that's the *game*, don't you see? He acts all humble and respectful and religious knowing perfectly well how they're going to respond, knowing it'll make him look good to the rest of the world and the Bushies look bad. A few years ago we had a regular contributor to this forum called L B Shriver. L B was real good about engaging posters of all stripes, no matter how ideologically slanted they may have been. He was the kind of guy who'd invite in religious proselytizers who'd knock on his door. L B would engage in respectful conversation, but he'd also kick your head off if he felt such a response was called for. We have people here now who do the same. Over time, L B influenced me and, I think, others who frequent this forum. Anyway, I think the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad letter should be given the L B treatment. Take it seriously and reply point by point. When Mahmoud condemns the September 11 attacks, thank him like a brother. When he snarkily denies the Holocaust, rake him over the coals. And keep at it over the years in a continued dialogue, as L B did. However, I don't expect the Bushies to conduct our nation's affairs with the wisdom shown in a run- of-the-internet newsgroup. Pity. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- TurquoiseB wrote: --- Gillam wrote: Anyway, I think the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad letter should be given the L B treatment. Take it seriously and reply point by point. Just to play Deva's advocate :-), doesn't this imply a desire, or a need, to convert either the person one is interfacing with or the lurkers to what you consider the right or correct point of view? That sounds a lot like small-s self and ego to me. I always had the impression that, while L B felt a sense of mission in his sparring - and he admitted as much - he was more interested in truth as he saw it than in converting someone else. Surely you can see how the two can coexist. The beauty of this dance is that I listen to you not to lull you into adopting my position, but because listening is one of the rules of engagement. We must really listen to one another, but we must also not surrender what we perceive as truth. Which means I'll grant you points when appropriate, but tell you you're full of crap when I feel such is warranted. And you do the same for me. I'm asking my country's leaders to listen to Iran's president not because I agree with what he says, for I don't. I'm asking my country's leaders to listen to him because that's what leaders must do. Even if the words they're hearing are anathema. I've often cited the work of my friend Dirk Ficca, director of the Council for a Parliament of the World's Religions, who advocates just this position. He encourages religions to listen to one another *not to find a common ground,* but for just the opposite reason: to understand why they are so different. For understanding leads to humanization, and humanization makes conflict more difficult. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- Gillam wrote: he was more interested in truth as he saw it than in converting someone else. Surely you can see how the two can coexist. This last sentence doesn't make sense. It should be, Surely you can appreciate the difference. Thanks. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- authfriend wrote: snip But that's the *game*, don't you see? He acts all humble and respectful and religious knowing perfectly well how they're going to respond, knowing it'll make him look good to the rest of the world and the Bushies look bad. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Anyway, I think the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad letter should be given the L B treatment. Take it seriously and reply point by point. When Mahmoud condemns the September 11 attacks, thank him like a brother. When he snarkily denies the Holocaust, rake him over the coals. And keep at it over the years in a continued dialogue, as L B did. As I mentioned earlier, I am responding as if I have found this letter on the sidewalk. It is much easier for me to live my life pretty much empty headed, until something occurs which I then respond to. So the assumptions I could make about what is seen or unseen are not areas I am engaging in with regard to the President of Iran. I haven't followed him and focused on him enough to do so. Right now we face a very dangerous situation with an unhinged group of very mean spirited individuals in charge of this country. Such a situation calls for much attention on any opposing force that may make it more difficult for the evil [see the banality of...]that is active at the highest levels of our government to grow and create more of itself. So, in my opinion, and according to what I feel, its not about geopolitical this or that, democrat or republican, Iran or US, dictatorship vs theocracy vs democracy, in this case. It is a hidden war between darkness and light, being played out as we speak. The players' personalities although they are clearly manifest, are not the key here. They are just pawns one way or another in this battle between light and darkness, having found their ways into one camp or the other. And in this battle between light and darkness, that which is awake within me will always favor the light, and hence I surrender my thoughts and actions to that. So, coming full circle, when I read the President of Iran's letter, with its frequent mention of God and the Christian values and Jesus, I support it fully, possibly more than the author does, and see it as a positive development in bringing greater light into this hidden war, because it makes it harder for the force of evil to openly act. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
TorquiseB writes: snipped I guess it's fun, if you get off on that sort of thing, but another kind of dialogue consists of each person presenting his or her view, followed by others who present *their* point of view, but without trying to rip the first poster a new asshole. Those who compulsively try to convince others that they are right and someone else is wrong seem to me to be missing an essential component of human interaction, not to mention humility. Tom T: In case no one has noticed this is a direct _expression_ of the Jaimini sutras. On the one hand is this view from this so called other and on the other hand is a different POV from a different so called other. Hey guys there is only one of us exploring its multiple viewpoints for shits and giggles. Lighten up and laugh it really is funny. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend wrote: snip But that's the *game*, don't you see? He acts all humble and respectful and religious knowing perfectly well how they're going to respond, knowing it'll make him look good to the rest of the world and the Bushies look bad. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: snip Anyway, I think the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad letter should be given the L B treatment. Take it seriously and reply point by point. When Mahmoud condemns the September 11 attacks, thank him like a brother. When he snarkily denies the Holocaust, rake him over the coals. And keep at it over the years in a continued dialogue, as L B did. As I mentioned earlier, I am responding as if I have found this letter on the sidewalk. It is much easier for me to live my life pretty much empty headed, until something occurs which I then respond to. So the assumptions I could make about what is seen or unseen are not areas I am engaging in with regard to the President of Iran. I haven't followed him and focused on him enough to do so. Right now we face a very dangerous situation with an unhinged group of very mean spirited individuals in charge of this country. Such a situation calls for much attention on any opposing force that may make it more difficult for the evil [see the banality of...]that is active at the highest levels of our government to grow and create more of itself. So, in my opinion, and according to what I feel, its not about geopolitical this or that, democrat or republican, Iran or US, dictatorship vs theocracy vs democracy, in this case. It is a hidden war between darkness and light, being played out as we speak. The players' personalities although they are clearly manifest, are not the key here. They are just pawns one way or another in this battle between light and darkness, having found their ways into one camp or the other. And in this battle between light and darkness, that which is awake within me will always favor the light, and hence I surrender my thoughts and actions to that. So, coming full circle, when I read the President of Iran's letter, with its frequent mention of God and the Christian values and Jesus, I support it fully, possibly more than the author does, and see it as a positive development in bringing greater light into this hidden war, because it makes it harder for the force of evil to openly act. Does it make it harder for the force of evil to openly act? God is mentioned quite fervently just before heads are cut off and bombs are set off. JohnY To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jyouells2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- authfriend wrote: snip But that's the *game*, don't you see? He acts all humble and respectful and religious knowing perfectly well how they're going to respond, knowing it'll make him look good to the rest of the world and the Bushies look bad. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam jpgillam@ wrote: snip Anyway, I think the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad letter should be given the L B treatment. Take it seriously and reply point by point. When Mahmoud condemns the September 11 attacks, thank him like a brother. When he snarkily denies the Holocaust, rake him over the coals. And keep at it over the years in a continued dialogue, as L B did. As I mentioned earlier, I am responding as if I have found this letter on the sidewalk. It is much easier for me to live my life pretty much empty headed, until something occurs which I then respond to. So the assumptions I could make about what is seen or unseen are not areas I am engaging in with regard to the President of Iran. I haven't followed him and focused on him enough to do so. Right now we face a very dangerous situation with an unhinged group of very mean spirited individuals in charge of this country. Such a situation calls for much attention on any opposing force that may make it more difficult for the evil [see the banality of...] that is active at the highest levels of our government to grow and create more of itself. So, in my opinion, and according to what I feel, its not about geopolitical this or that, democrat or republican, Iran or US, dictatorship vs theocracy vs democracy, in this case. It is a hidden war between darkness and light, being played out as we speak. The players' personalities although they are clearly manifest, are not the key here. They are just pawns one way or another in this battle between light and darkness, having found their ways into one camp or the other. And in this battle between light and darkness, that which is awake within me will always favor the light, and hence I surrender my thoughts and actions to that. So, coming full circle, when I read the President of Iran's letter, with its frequent mention of God and the Christian values and Jesus, I support it fully, possibly more than the author does, and see it as a positive development in bringing greater light into this hidden war, because it makes it harder for the force of evil to openly act. Does it make it harder for the force of evil to openly act? God is mentioned quite fervently just before heads are cut off and bombs are set off. JohnY All sorts of horrible things are done in the name of God and religion. Oftentimes violence is just the inertial result of a culture of violence that breeds upon itself. I am certainly not making excuses for any sort of violence. I myself have never advocated such a thing, nor participated in it. What I am mentioning above is a very specific situation, that if unchecked could lead to very great destruction. We must face the greatest darkness first. To your point about beheadings and suicide bombings, we have been trained to react to those barbaric acts as somehow more wrong than the official barbaric acts that our country formally perpetrates in the context of the war on terror. It serves those at the highest levels of government well to foster such a message and reaction in the population. However I personally see no difference whether someone is intentionally beheaded or blown up in a cafe vs. blown apart by a bomb dropped on their village, or beheaded by shrapnel as a result of a missile fired at their house or car. It all results in death and suffering. And to that point, it is estimated that ~100,000 Iraqi civilians have now died in that war. I find it so twisted that we hear daily about this and that suicide bombing in the news, and never one single word about Iraqi civilians dying as a direct result of our military actions. Are we to believe that the US military has not killed a single one of those 100,000 Iraqi civilians? Or that each of them didn't die a death every bit as horrible as those killed by the suicide bombers? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- jim_flanegin wrote: when I read the President of Iran's letter, with its frequent mention of God and the Christian values and Jesus, I support it fully, possibly more than the author does, and see it as a positive development in bringing greater light into this hidden war, because it makes it harder for the force of evil to openly act. A worthy perception! I hope you get a chance to do it for the Bushies, too. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip So, coming full circle, when I read the President of Iran's letter, with its frequent mention of God and the Christian values and Jesus, I support it fully, possibly more than the author does, and see it as a positive development in bringing greater light into this hidden war, because it makes it harder for the force of evil to openly act. Did you understand him to be recommending theocracy as the best form of government, and specifically theocracy based on monotheism? If so, do you think this would make things more difficult for the forces of evil? I'm not sure I do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: snip So, coming full circle, when I read the President of Iran's letter, with its frequent mention of God and the Christian values and Jesus, I support it fully, possibly more than the author does, and see it as a positive development in bringing greater light into this hidden war, because it makes it harder for the force of evil to openly act. Did you understand him to be recommending theocracy as the best form of government, and specifically theocracy based on monotheism? I didn't notice that in the letter. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other. If so, do you think this would make things more difficult for the forces of evil? I'm not sure I do. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- jim_flanegin wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- jim_flanegin wrote: when I read the President of Iran's letter, with its frequent mention of God and the Christian values and Jesus, I support it fully, possibly more than the author does Did you understand him to be recommending theocracy as the best form of government, and specifically theocracy based on monotheism? I didn't notice that in the letter. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other. The key phrase seems to be I support it more than the author does, leaving room for the possibility that Mahmoud may be a conniving snark, but not being suckered into that perception. For what's the point? Jim doesn't work for the State Department.There's no point in looking past the mask, unless it's to see the divinity within. I, on the other hand, have no problem seeing Mahmoud as a conniving snark. For much of my life I've thought too well of others, not because I had celestial perception, but because I was simply blind. It's refreshing to cease playing the chump. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- jim_flanegin wrote: --- authfriend wrote: --- jim_flanegin wrote: when I read the President of Iran's letter, with its frequent mention of God and the Christian values and Jesus, I support it fully, possibly more than the author does Did you understand him to be recommending theocracy as the best form of government, and specifically theocracy based on monotheism? I didn't notice that in the letter. Doesn't matter to me one way or the other. The key phrase seems to be I support it more than the author does, leaving room for the possibility that Mahmoud may be a conniving snark, but not being suckered into that perception. For what's the point? Jim doesn't work for the State Department.There's no point in looking past the mask, unless it's to see the divinity within. I, on the other hand, have no problem seeing Mahmoud as a conniving snark. For much of my life I've thought too well of others, not because I had celestial perception, but because I was simply blind. It's refreshing to cease playing the chump. Yeah, exactly. By taking the middle way, by not being on the one hand, naive, and on the other, cynical, and thirdly, by the mind remaining clear, a third perception emerges. So whoever the individual entities in this conflict are, isn't important to me, only to them. What is important to me is seeing the balance of light and darkness in the situation and silently favoring the light. It then becomes a display, not of geopolitics, but rather a natural phenomenon, subject not so much to abstract human thinking and intellectually distorted perceptions, but instead the processes that govern the natural world, the divine world. And the greater reality being played out here must necessarily be one of natural process, not only because it is crafted as such, but also in order for us to see it for what it is, and therefore influence it as it exists; a play of darkness and light. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jason Spock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I had mentioned that Creation of Israel is probably the biggest mistake of the 20'th Century. Partitioning a state creates all kinds of complications. The only solution for Peace, is to reverse back to 1947 borders and the resurrection of the State of Judea. By the way, Did the President of Iran mention that the Prostitution racket in Iran and smuggling of young Iranian Girls into Prostitution is being done by Iranian Clerics and Mullahs.?? You should the letter for yourself, then you can report back to all of us please. Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/zadb6 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No...not MMY. Another enlightened leader is now saying the same thing: http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iran Puts MMY in good company, doesn't it? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance no_reply@ wrote: No...not MMY. Another enlightened leader is now saying the same thing: http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iran Puts MMY in good company, doesn't it? I know these kind of flip, eat the lies of the media whole, type of responses feel good on some level, but you really should read the extraordinary letter sent by the President of Iran to the President of the USA. It is respectful, insightful, balanced and truthful. Secretary of State Rice betrays her wish for 'wargasm' (vs. orgasm) at her and our country's peril. Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/zadb6 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance no_reply@ wrote: No...not MMY. Another enlightened leader is now saying the same thing: http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iran Puts MMY in good company, doesn't it? I know these kind of flip, eat the lies of the media whole, type of responses feel good on some level, but you really should read the extraordinary letter sent by the President of Iran to the President of the USA. It is respectful, insightful, balanced and truthful. Secretary of State Rice betrays her wish for 'wargasm' (vs. orgasm) at her and our country's peril. Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/zadb6 Seems to me it's a very mixed bag. I have serious doubts that Ahmadinejad wrote it thinking it had a chance of getting a favorable response. I suspect he wrote it in a way he was sure would be dismissed, and did so for that very purpose, so he could use the dismissal as a propaganda ploy. He says some noble, high-minded things. But he also appears to be suggesting that theocracy is the appropriate form of government, and moreover that it should be a theocracy based on a monotheistic religion. He dismisses the murder of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust (which he says he accepts as fact for the sake of argument) as insufficient justification for the State of Israel's existence. And he implicitly accuses Bush of lying, which, while accurate, is not something you say to a leader with whom you are attempting to establish cooperative relations. I suppose it's conceivable that a brilliant statesperson could figure out how to use the letter to make direct talks with Iran possible, but the substance of the letter wouldn't give him or her much to work with. I think the administration's extreme demonization of Ahmadinejad is unwarranted and certainly not helpful in attaining any kind of rapprochement; but I don't think Ahmadinejad is just a well- meaning, misunderstood, humanitarian Boy Scout either. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance no_reply@ wrote: No...not MMY. Another enlightened leader is now saying the same thing: http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iran Puts MMY in good company, doesn't it? I know these kind of flip, eat the lies of the media whole, type of responses feel good on some level, but you really should read the extraordinary letter sent by the President of Iran to the President of the USA. It is respectful, insightful, balanced and truthful. Secretary of State Rice betrays her wish for 'wargasm' (vs. orgasm) at her and our country's peril. Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/zadb6 Seems to me it's a very mixed bag. I have serious doubts that Ahmadinejad wrote it thinking it had a chance of getting a favorable response. I suspect he wrote it in a way he was sure would be dismissed, and did so for that very purpose, so he could use the dismissal as a propaganda ploy. He says some noble, high-minded things. But he also appears to be suggesting that theocracy is the appropriate form of government, and moreover that it should be a theocracy based on a monotheistic religion. He dismisses the murder of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust (which he says he accepts as fact for the sake of argument) as insufficient justification for the State of Israel's existence. And he implicitly accuses Bush of lying, which, while accurate, is not something you say to a leader with whom you are attempting to establish cooperative relations. I suppose it's conceivable that a brilliant statesperson could figure out how to use the letter to make direct talks with Iran possible, but the substance of the letter wouldn't give him or her much to work with. I think the administration's extreme demonization of Ahmadinejad what, in your estimation, would Ahmadinejad have to do in order for the administration to be justified in its extreme demonization? is unwarranted and certainly not helpful in attaining any kind of rapprochement; but I don't think Ahmadinejad is just a well- meaning, misunderstood, humanitarian Boy Scout either. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk shempmcgurk@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, scienceofabundance no_reply@ wrote: No...not MMY. Another enlightened leader is now saying the same thing: http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iran Puts MMY in good company, doesn't it? I know these kind of flip, eat the lies of the media whole, type of responses feel good on some level, but you really should read the extraordinary letter sent by the President of Iran to the President of the USA. It is respectful, insightful, balanced and truthful. Secretary of State Rice betrays her wish for 'wargasm' (vs. orgasm) at her and our country's peril. Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/zadb6 Seems to me it's a very mixed bag. I have serious doubts that Ahmadinejad wrote it thinking it had a chance of getting a favorable response. I suspect he wrote it in a way he was sure would be dismissed, and did so for that very purpose, so he could use the dismissal as a propaganda ploy. He says some noble, high-minded things. But he also appears to be suggesting that theocracy is the appropriate form of government, and moreover that it should be a theocracy based on a monotheistic religion. He dismisses the murder of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust (which he says he accepts as fact for the sake of argument) as insufficient justification for the State of Israel's existence. And he implicitly accuses Bush of lying, which, while accurate, is not something you say to a leader with whom you are attempting to establish cooperative relations. I suppose it's conceivable that a brilliant statesperson could figure out how to use the letter to make direct talks with Iran possible, but the substance of the letter wouldn't give him or her much to work with. I think the administration's extreme demonization of Ahmadinejad what, in your estimation, would Ahmadinejad have to do in order for the administration to be justified in its extreme demonization? You've gotten the question wrong. It should be, How should the [US] administration act in order to justify its extreme demonization of another sovereign state with a clear conscience? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
Comments interleaved. --- authfriend wrote: --- jim_flanegin wrote: It is respectful, insightful, balanced and truthful. Secretary of State Rice betrays her wish for 'wargasm' (vs. orgasm) at her and our country's peril. You really think Ahmadinejad's letter has that much integrity? I'm curious how people will evaluate it. I'm often impressed with how posts to this group that strike me as reasonable can be revealed as crap. (I'll refrain from giving examples out of my deep sense of diplomacy.) If someone posted such a letter here, I reall think he'd be ignored as a whackjob. And this guy's a head of state! Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/zadb6 Seems to me it's a very mixed bag. [snip] The whole letter is questions. How tough is it to ask questions? How much intellectual acumen does it take to point out the contradictions and failures of any given policy? See, even I can do it. I think the administration's extreme demonization of Ahmadinejad is unwarranted and certainly not helpful in attaining any kind of rapprochement; but I don't think Ahmadinejad is just a well- meaning, misunderstood, humanitarian Boy Scout either. Agreed. I say the State Department post Ahmadinejad's letter to newsgroups of various persuasions and invite participants to weigh in. Take the best responses and craft a reply. Hey, we're experts at taking apart bullshit and humoring whacky ideas. Let's show him liberalism rules! L To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Comments interleaved. --- authfriend wrote: --- jim_flanegin wrote: It is respectful, insightful, balanced and truthful. Secretary of State Rice betrays her wish for 'wargasm' (vs. orgasm) at her and our country's peril. You really think Ahmadinejad's letter has that much integrity? I'm curious how people will evaluate it. I'm often impressed with how posts to this group that strike me as reasonable can be revealed as crap. (I'll refrain from giving examples out of my deep sense of diplomacy.) Yeah- I know nothing of this guy, except other peoples' impressions, so I read the letter as if I found it on the sidewalk, and that is the way it struck me, possible motives aside. If someone posted such a letter here, I reall think he'd be ignored as a whackjob. And this guy's a head of state! Check it out: http://tinyurl.com/zadb6 Seems to me it's a very mixed bag. [snip] The whole letter is questions. How tough is it to ask questions? How much intellectual acumen does it take to point out the contradictions and failures of any given policy? See, even I can do it. I did notice that he wasn't doing a 'compare and contrast' thing between his job and Bush's. However his overall tone was both truthful and respectful in my opinion. I wasn't commenting on anything more than that...and the obvious contrast between the POV expressed through the President of Iran's letter and the haughty, condescending, and threatening responses we've seen from Rice, the senior US representative commenting on the letter. Personally, I would've found a way to use the letter as a bridge and opening if I was in Bush's place, but this reprehensible gang of four who have hijacked the country are all about ego, and we have all seen what a crafty master the ego can be. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice each have the wool tightly pulled over their eyes, by choice. Four diamonds, sold for the price of spinach... I think the administration's extreme demonization of Ahmadinejad is unwarranted and certainly not helpful in attaining any kind of rapprochement; but I don't think Ahmadinejad is just a well- meaning, misunderstood, humanitarian Boy Scout either. Agreed. I say the State Department post Ahmadinejad's letter to newsgroups of various persuasions and invite participants to weigh in. Take the best responses and craft a reply. Hey, we're experts at taking apart bullshit and humoring whacky ideas. Let's show him liberalism rules! L To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Democracy Has Failed
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I did notice that he wasn't doing a 'compare and contrast' thing between his job and Bush's. However his overall tone was both truthful and respectful in my opinion. I wasn't commenting on anything more than that...and the obvious contrast between the POV expressed through the President of Iran's letter and the haughty, condescending, and threatening responses we've seen from Rice, the senior US representative commenting on the letter. But that's the *game*, don't you see? He acts all humble and respectful and religious knowing perfectly well how they're going to respond, knowing it'll make him look good to the rest of the world and the Bushies look bad. Besides which, the letter was full of very carefully crafted subtle snark. (I'm sure Curtis would recognize it, wouldn't you, Curtis?) It was not meant to charm the administration, to the contrary. It was a well-played, savvy little bit of propaganda, much more sophisticated than anything Bush's team could come up with. But it was designed to get everybody *but* the U.S. on his side. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
