[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung no_reply@ wrote: Barry wrote: I find this attitude of setting people straight about the reality of enlightenment not only creepy, but dangerous. Edg: I'll deal with each point of Barry's below -- only cuz it'll be a good therapy for me. I'm not setting anyone else straight. I have no power over anyone's mind -- especially not here at FFL. I'm preaching, but only to myself. I'm happy to hear you've realized that many of us never bother reading any further than the first sentence in any of your posts. It's difficult to influence *anyone* in that short a time. :-) I'm not exactly one of Edg's biggest fans, but the post Barry dismisses so patronizingly is, IMHO, the most insightful and authentic Edg has written yet. I guess you can't blame Barry for not wanting to read it, because Barry is so far from able to write anything remotely as honest and profound and clear that it would be acutely painful, like the contrast between a Mickey Mouse cartoon and Hamlet.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
Edg: You know, if I were enlightened, I would expect that part of my freedom, part of my meat robot's new world, would be the duty or privilege of setting folks straight about enlightenment, and if the folks want to tussle, well, the enlightened can give what's given to them backacha TIMES TEN. Curtis: Atheists are all too aware of this fanatical position throughout history. Seeing it supported in this day and age by you Edg creeps me out to the max. But it doesn't surprise me one bit. What Curtis said. I find this attitude of setting people straight about the reality of enlightenment not only creepy, but dangerous. It's this very attitude of duty that has caused almost all of the wars and persecution attributed to religion in history. Someone says, I *know* the truth; you don't. It's my *duty* to not only teach you about the truth, but browbeat you (or physically beat you) into *agreeing* with my perception of truth. THAT is what Edg is describing -- someone so convinced of the accuracy of his *subjective* experience of life that he feels not only the right to impose it on others but the duty to do so. Arjuna was expected to kill for a holy purpose, and killing the mean steak in anyone who'd knee jerkingly doubt the spirituality of another seems par for the course. See what I mean? Edg has not only mistaken a fairy tale (the Gita) for reality, he's presenting it as a model for people who believe as he does. If they disagree with your version of 'truth,' or have a 'mean streak' and resist being told what and how to think, it's OK to kill them 'for a holy purpose.' If anyone stood up and told Maharishi that he was full of shit, every TB in the room WOULD EXPECT MAHARISHI TO UNLOAD WITH THE SAME INTENSITY THAT ARJUNA WAS IMAGINED TO HAVE WHEN HE PULLED BACK HIS ARROW. See tamas, stomp tamas. I agree that everyone would expect Maharishi to do this. That just means that he's a fanatical asshole who feels that he has to impose his ideas of 'truth' on all present, not that he *knows* truth. See tamas, stomp tamas implies that one *knows* tamas when one sees it. Edg assumes Maharishi knows this; I do not. I also do not assume that Jim and Rory have this magical ability to see what is tamas and what is sattva. I think they're Just Human Beings Just Like Me, with no more abilities than anyone on the planet. I also assume this of Maharihsi. Edg doesn't. He assigns them magical abilities that he doesn't have and that no one else has. And WHY? Because they *claim* to have them. That's the *entire* basis of his rant -- These people *claim* to be enlightened; therefore they are. That's the basis of his magical thinking about the Gita and the fairy-tale Krishna as well. People have *told* me that Krishna (who never existed) was enlightened. They made claims. I believe them. Therefore Krishna had the 'right' to kill people he perceived as 'tamassic.' Furthermore, people who want to lead 'right lives' should do the same thing with people *they* perceive as 'tamassic.' This is the language of the religious fanatic. If I believed in a God, I'd thank Him that Edg has no access to real power over other human beings other than in the dim recesses of his dim mind. If he did, he'd be dangerous. In reality, he's just a blowhard with danger- ous tendencies.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Have you seen him at all ?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
On Nov 28, 2007, at 5:08 AM, TurquoiseB wrote: This is the language of the religious fanatic. If I believed in a God, I'd thank Him that Edg has no access to real power over other human beings other than in the dim recesses of his dim mind. If he did, he'd be dangerous. In reality, he's just a blowhard with danger- ous tendencies. To paraphrase the late great Molly Ivins, Edg's rant probably sounded better in the original German. :) I'm just wondering where he gets the energy for all of ultra-long posts. Sal
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Barry wrote: I find this attitude of setting people straight about the reality of enlightenment not only creepy, but dangerous. Edg: I'll deal with each point of Barry's below -- only cuz it'll be a good therapy for me. I'm not setting anyone else straight. I have no power over anyone's mind -- especially not here at FFL. I'm preaching, but only to myself. I'm happy to hear you've realized that many of us never bother reading any further than the first sentence in any of your posts. It's difficult to influence *anyone* in that short a time. :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
Yes. nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Have you seen him at all ? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Have you seen him at all ? If you have not been in private meetings with dynamic communication with Maharishi, back and forth discussing ideas and suggestions for hours, you have never met him.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
We've met. nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes. nablusoss1008 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Have you seen him at all ? If you have not been in private meetings with dynamic communication with Maharishi, back and forth discussing ideas and suggestions for hours, you have never met him. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yes, I am completely lacking in perfect intellignence. You though have apparently perfected it! I am also as you say incapable of deomonstrateing it! Don't you see what an utter fool you appear as when you try this stuff?? Simply a delusional fool. And in time, you will realize this to be your Self. Not to mention self.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pranamoocher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never understood the hostilities expressed on this board by some of its members in response to simple topics of personal experiences. I really enjoy reading Jim and Rory's ( and others') enlightened explanations and don't take them as attacks on others' states of consciousness at all, although I probably comprehend only half of their contents, and that is only on an intellectual basis. But I find them enriching or intriguing nonetheless and along with some of the other regular posters, they are a large reason I log onto FL almost daily. This board would be boring without them. As a comparison, are there other forums to recommend with people sharing their enlightened experiences? I'd like to surf those since besides FL, my only participation to these experiences has mainly been passive, from books, tapes, speakers or courses long ago. So have theirs. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! You remember how that worked, don't you? I had forgotten, I admit, but FFL has beautifully reminded me of how the separate self still thoroughly identifying with buddhi has only two near-automatic choices in any given moment: me-better-than-you or you-better-than-me. That everything-utterly-perfect-everything-the-same US we essentially take for granted is anathema to the identified self; still sees it as Death and boredom and so on... What puzzles me is how much time, how much of life is spent by quite a lot of people here on FFL on this endless me-better-than-you activity. Why not simply close the eyes, and for example, have a checking ? :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Now, THAT makes sense! I remember the terrific battles that would rage within me as I approached my enlightenment; the revealing of my Self-- especially when I would practice TM- Transcendental Meditation- *lol* the Buddhi was being forced to surrender to Atman-- Man, did that take a lot of stepping out into nothingness; deliberately, and with intense observation, faith and calculation and courage, until I earned nothing but effortlessness. Thats what holding many on this forum back probably, lack of courage towards facing the unknown : the vastness of expansion in effortlessness. What lies at the bottom of the attacks on you by tons of loosers on FFL, or turq's endless rants about his experiences in the relative other than just that. Off, curtis, vaj, edg,do.flex, peter, sal, et al more or less are all in this business of being afraid of themselves.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pranamoocher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never understood the hostilities expressed on this board by some of its members in response to simple topics of personal experiences. I really enjoy reading Jim and Rory's ( and others') enlightened explanations and don't take them as attacks on others' states of consciousness at all, although I probably comprehend only half of their contents, and that is only on an intellectual basis. But I find them enriching or intriguing nonetheless and along with some of the other regular posters, they are a large reason I log onto FL almost daily. This board would be boring without them. Could not have written it better myself ! :-) The problem for a lot of people here is the fact that for both these two, at least Jim has stated this clearly, Maharishi and Guru Dev have been of vital importance for their awakening. Thats the thing so incredibly difficult to digest for a number of fellows here who never took Maharishis programmes for inner growth very seriously.(They would disagree ofcourse, even listing how many years they followed Maharishis etcetc, as if the years are important, or how close they imagine they were to him. They where in it for a number of reasons but failed in the most important one and detest anyone who actually lives the fruit of the knowledge. That is why you will see all this bitterness and hostility expressed here daily. It is all about their own failures. Don't take them too seriously !
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
I didn't mean to address you in particular. I was just making a joke about a general vibe on this forum. In general though, I think it's prolly impossible to say, I am enlightened without sounding like a pompous ass for a lot of different reasons. So that puts someone who thinks they're enlightened in the difficult position of either having to shut up about it, or to risk coming off as exactly the opposite of enlightened. And I'm sure it has happened in the history of the world that some who have thought themselves enlightened aren't. Given that state of affairs, I, for one, appreciate anyone who has either the courage or the stupidity to admit to thinking they're enlightened. That, at least, allows us to question such a person. How would any of us ever know what it is if some who think they are enlightened didn't speak out? On the other hand, if enlightenment is all it's cracked up to be, then those of us who aren't don't have a ghost of a chance to understand those of us who are. jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thing about being enlightened that I personally don't like all that much is that I am surrounded by unenlightened idiots. How could this have happened? I'm incarnate in a sea of idiots reflecting all that profound idiocy back to me??? Incredible. You misunderstand me. I don't mind my circumstances at all. Quite happy actually. I don't consider unenlightened people idiots at all, or people in general idiots. What an awful thought! What a weird and confining and miserable existence that single thought would create, wouldn't it? What I was expressing in my previous post is that gaining enlightenment or gaining a desire for enlightenment is not at all about someone proving the benefits of enlightenment to you, that it somehow emerges as a rational decision based on external evidence. Not at all. I was also expressing my annoyance at how an expression of enlightenment here and now is regarded by some with disdain, and a kind of spoiled child attitude. I admit being somewhat slow on the uptake regarding my evaluation of others' attitudes towards a frank expression of enlightenment. As I've said before, I don't spend any time at all outside of this forum, and one other, expressing my observations of enlightenment, so my learning about how to express it, and learning about others' reactions are relatively new. I don't attend courses, or visit spiritual teachers or read so-called spiritually oriented books. I never in all my years of seeking this state had the attitude that those who were enlightened felt that they were better than me, or that I had to challenge them constantly, or that somehow all that I had in life was owed to me, which are all attitudes I find with some people here. Its frankly somewhat shocking. I spent my years seeking enlightenment mostly by myself, observing and praying. I was solely oriented towards the goal of my freedom, willing to do anything for it. This forum with those who have studied such a state intellectually and academically, and engaged in a supermarket of practices is all new to me, kind of a fascinating subculture. But also sometimes with a sense of entitlement and egotism to it that I find bizarre-- understandable, but bizarre nonetheless, that some of those who began as idealistic seekers have been transformed into mere collectors of spiritual trivia, bent on tearing down and finding the flaws in everything, instead of breaking through these reflections of bitterness and fear, and just going for it again. That is what I meant to express, not that any of us are idiots. Thanks Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
On Nov 27, 2007, at 7:38 AM, Angela Mailander wrote: In general though, I think it's prolly impossible to say, I am enlightened without sounding like a pompous ass for a lot of different reasons. So that puts someone who thinks they're enlightened in the difficult position of either having to shut up about it, or to risk coming off as exactly the opposite of enlightened. And I'm sure it has happened in the history of the world that some who have thought themselves enlightened aren't. Thus the rather wise saying those who talk, don't know; those who know don't talk.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, pranamoocher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've never understood the hostilities expressed on this board by some of its members in response to simple topics of personal experiences. I really enjoy reading Jim and Rory's ( and others') enlightened explanations and don't take them as attacks on others' states of consciousness at all, although I probably comprehend only half of their contents, and that is only on an intellectual basis. But I find them enriching or intriguing nonetheless and along with some of the other regular posters, they are a large reason I log onto FL almost daily. This board would be boring without them. As a comparison, are there other forums to recommend with people sharing their enlightened experiences? I'd like to surf those since besides FL, my only participation to these experiences has mainly been passive, from books, tapes, speakers or courses long ago. Glad to hear it-- BTW, I've always enjoyed your nom de plume here!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, THAT makes sense! I remember the terrific battles that would rage within me as I approached my enlightenment; the revealing of my Self-- especially when I would practice TM- Transcendental Meditation- *lol* the Buddhi was being forced to surrender to Atman-- Man, did that take a lot of stepping out into nothingness; deliberately, and with intense observation, faith and calculation and courage, until I earned nothing but effortlessness. Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles -- and congratulating themselves on the trade.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
This time, Rory, you are not speaking from any kind of experience. Have you seen war? You may be able to argue that most of us are living in a world of psychological misery of our own making because we are not enlightened, but we are still spoiled Americans with the money, leisure, and comfort to have spiritual concerns of some sort. And again, just because we see something coming down the road doesn't mean we're afraid. a Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now, THAT makes sense! I remember the terrific battles that would rage within me as I approached my enlightenment; the revealing of my Self-- especially when I would practice TM- Transcendental Meditation- *lol* the Buddhi was being forced to surrender to Atman-- Man, did that take a lot of stepping out into nothingness; deliberately, and with intense observation, faith and calculation and courage, until I earned nothing but effortlessness. Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles -- and congratulating themselves on the trade. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles -- and congratulating themselves on the trade. Can't you just enjoy your own inner world without taking a shot at others Rory? Seriously man, you have no idea what other people are experiencing in their lives. I am happy for you that you have an internal state that you value. So do I. Am I missing something here or are you trying to piss on my parade? Who are you talking about here? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Now, THAT makes sense! I remember the terrific battles that would rage within me as I approached my enlightenment; the revealing of my Self-- especially when I would practice TM- Transcendental Meditation- *lol* the Buddhi was being forced to surrender to Atman-- Man, did that take a lot of stepping out into nothingness; deliberately, and with intense observation, faith and calculation and courage, until I earned nothing but effortlessness. Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles -- and congratulating themselves on the trade.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
R: Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles -- and congratulating themselves on the trade. Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This time, Rory, you are not speaking from any kind of experience. Have you seen war? You may be able to argue that most of us are living in a world of psychological misery of our own making because we are not enlightened, but we are still spoiled Americans with the money, leisure, and comfort to have spiritual concerns of some sort. And again, just because we see something coming down the road doesn't mean we're afraid. a Anything out there is Disneyland, period. If it really matters, I remember war. I am still standing amidst the ashes, rubble, bones, and stink of an incinerated Germany and knowing nothingness, and utter humiliation and failure to protect my people. What's going on in here is far worse: because it has a sugar coating, allowing us to ignore a far more horrendous and insidious tyranny that robs us of utter freedom, doesn't allow us to have a truly clear thought, or perceive clearly that we aren't actually free. And again, I'm not speaking of mere political freedom. I'm speaking of a thought-control so subtle we aren't even aware that it's there or that we're fearfully chained by it, until it Dies. We're afraid, all right.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles - - and congratulating themselves on the trade. Can't you just enjoy your own inner world without taking a shot at others Rory? Seriously man, you have no idea what other people are experiencing in their lives. I am happy for you that you have an internal state that you value. So do I. Am I missing something here or are you trying to piss on my parade? Who are you talking about here? AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
OK, if you want to call the rubble, bones, and stink of an incinerated Germany Disneyland, you've got a point. But I don't think that this is using language with any kind of precision. Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: R: Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles -- and congratulating themselves on the trade. Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This time, Rory, you are not speaking from any kind of experience. Have you seen war? You may be able to argue that most of us are living in a world of psychological misery of our own making because we are not enlightened, but we are still spoiled Americans with the money, leisure, and comfort to have spiritual concerns of some sort. And again, just because we see something coming down the road doesn't mean we're afraid. a Anything out there is Disneyland, period. If it really matters, I remember war. I am still standing amidst the ashes, rubble, bones, and stink of an incinerated Germany and knowing nothingness, and utter humiliation and failure to protect my people. What's going on in here is far worse: because it has a sugar coating, allowing us to ignore a far more horrendous and insidious tyranny that robs us of utter freedom, doesn't allow us to have a truly clear thought, or perceive clearly that we aren't actually free. And again, I'm not speaking of mere political freedom. I'm speaking of a thought-control so subtle we aren't even aware that it's there or that we're fearfully chained by it, until it Dies. We're afraid, all right. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, if you want to call the rubble, bones, and stink of an incinerated Germany Disneyland, you've got a point. But I don't think that this is using language with any kind of precision. I do.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best. Yeah, I'm just an adorable, tousled haired, big hearted, unenlightened scamp aren't I? I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles - - and congratulating themselves on the trade. Can't you just enjoy your own inner world without taking a shot at others Rory? Seriously man, you have no idea what other people are experiencing in their lives. I am happy for you that you have an internal state that you value. So do I. Am I missing something here or are you trying to piss on my parade? Who are you talking about here? AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best. Yeah, I'm just an adorable, tousled haired, big hearted, unenlightened scamp aren't I? I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. I'm not here to keep quiet about what I see, or to lie to you to make you feel better, if that's what you want. I'm here to tell the truth as simply and as clearly as I can -- I feel I owe you that much.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
I'm with you on this one, Curtis, I don't sense it either. curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best. Yeah, I'm just an adorable, tousled haired, big hearted, unenlightened scamp aren't I? I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: Here's the really funny part. They are so terrified of the coming tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture out there and completely unaware that the coming nightmare is Disneyland compared to the absolute tyranny, terror, fascism, and torture they are subjecting themselves to every moment -- voluntarily trading their birthright not even for a mess of spinach, but for a handful of burning nettles - - and congratulating themselves on the trade. Can't you just enjoy your own inner world without taking a shot at others Rory? Seriously man, you have no idea what other people are experiencing in their lives. I am happy for you that you have an internal state that you value. So do I. Am I missing something here or are you trying to piss on my parade? Who are you talking about here? AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. I'm with you on this one, Curtis, I don't sense it either. Haven't you guys paid any attention to the ROLE MODEL these enlightened guys have? Has MAHARISHI ever been open to feedback? Has he ever demonstrated the slightest desire to ever *communicate* with another human being? I have to say, based on the time I spent with him, that the answer is an enormous NO. Maharishi doesn't communicate -- he pontificates. He makes pronouncements, and expects people to be awed by the things he says. Now look at Rory and Jim. Who do you think they're modeling their behavior on? We're too far beneath them to communicate with. The only thing a truly enlightened being like Jim or Rory can think of to do with one of us unenlight- ened souls is preach to us and tell us what we have to do to become *almost* as good as they are. Never really *as* good, of course, but close, if we try real hard, and display enough awe over their pronouncements. The thing is, Maharishi had a little charisma for a while, long enough to suck a large number of people in with such an act. These guys? They're just trying to run his act but without anything to back it up. IMO, of course. I could be wrong. Both of these guys could really be enlightened for all I know. But if it were *proved* to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were fully enlightened, I'd *still* never take anything they say seriously or act upon it. Life's too short to waste it following the advice of assholes.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Jim and Rory may well be enlightened, but they don't seem to have enough self-awareness to notice how they come across. Maybe they just don't give a shit. a TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. I'm with you on this one, Curtis, I don't sense it either. Haven't you guys paid any attention to the ROLE MODEL these enlightened guys have? Has MAHARISHI ever been open to feedback? Has he ever demonstrated the slightest desire to ever *communicate* with another human being? I have to say, based on the time I spent with him, that the answer is an enormous NO. Maharishi doesn't communicate -- he pontificates. He makes pronouncements, and expects people to be awed by the things he says. Now look at Rory and Jim. Who do you think they're modeling their behavior on? We're too far beneath them to communicate with. The only thing a truly enlightened being like Jim or Rory can think of to do with one of us unenlight- ened souls is preach to us and tell us what we have to do to become *almost* as good as they are. Never really *as* good, of course, but close, if we try real hard, and display enough awe over their pronouncements. The thing is, Maharishi had a little charisma for a while, long enough to suck a large number of people in with such an act. These guys? They're just trying to run his act but without anything to back it up. IMO, of course. I could be wrong. Both of these guys could really be enlightened for all I know. But if it were *proved* to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were fully enlightened, I'd *still* never take anything they say seriously or act upon it. Life's too short to waste it following the advice of assholes. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. I'm with you on this one, Curtis, I don't sense it either. Haven't you guys paid any attention to the ROLE MODEL these enlightened guys have? The suspense is killing me. Has MAHARISHI ever been open to feedback? Has he ever demonstrated the slightest desire to ever *communicate* with another human being? I have to say, based on the time I spent with him, that the answer is an enormous NO. Maharishi doesn't communicate -- he pontificates. He makes pronouncements, and expects people to be awed by the things he says. Wow-- Many would say the same thing about you, little maharishi. Now look at Rory and Jim. Who do you think they're modeling their behavior on? modeling their behavior on??? WTF? more crazy talk. We're too far beneath them to communicate with. If you insist, and you ARE insisting. Boy are you ever insistent... The only thing a truly enlightened being like Jim or Rory can think of to do with one of us unenlight- ened souls is preach to us and tell us what we have to do to become *almost* as good as they are. Never really *as* good, of course, but close, if we try real hard, and display enough awe over their pronouncements. Buddhi Boy speaks!!! superior/inferior... The thing is, Maharishi had a little charisma for a while, long enough to suck a large number of people in with such an act. These guys? They're just trying to run his act but without anything to back it up. IMO, of course. I could be wrong. Nope-- no weaseling out this time-- I totally accept your position, and you are stuck with it-- Both of these guys could really be enlightened for all I know. But if it were *proved* to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were fully enlightened, I'd *still* never take anything they say seriously or act upon it. Testify Turq, Testify!!! Life's too short to waste it following the advice of assholes. Ooops, you lost me there. Contradicting yourself...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Jim and Rory may well be enlightened, but they don't seem to have enough self-awareness to notice how they come across. Maybe they just don't give a shit. a How can I *control* your perception of me Angela? Even if I could, I have no interest in doing so. Why do we all have such different perceptions of what I say? In the eye of the beholder perhaps?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
or to lie to you to make you feel better, if that's what you want That's all I ever wanted from you Rory. You don't call you don't write, and is it too much to ask for a box of chocolates once in a while? You can keep the flowers I got allergies, now pull up a chair and eat, you look like a skeleton, what they don't have any kugel or borscht where you live? Eat and stop with all the fercockt meshuggina and stop acting like a zhlub or you'll never find a shadkhen to introduce you to a nice zaftig shiksa to shtup with yer shvantz, ya nudnik! I don't mean to kvetch. Enough with the schmaltz Bubbala, I'm getting ver clempt. Now gay ga zinta hate, stop being such a fershtinkiner, just tone down the chutzpah bissel. Fershtay? I hope that makes my position a bit clearer. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best. Yeah, I'm just an adorable, tousled haired, big hearted, unenlightened scamp aren't I? I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. I'm not here to keep quiet about what I see, or to lie to you to make you feel better, if that's what you want. I'm here to tell the truth as simply and as clearly as I can -- I feel I owe you that much.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Jim and Rory may well be enlightened, but they don't seem to have enough self-awareness to notice how they come across. Maybe they just don't give a shit. a Not enlightened, just doing the best I can, with the narrow set of skills at my disposal :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Jim and Rory may well be enlightened, but they don't seem to have enough self-awareness to notice how they come across. Maybe they just don't give a shit. a How can I *control* your perception of me Angela? Even if I could, I have no interest in doing so. Why do we all have such different perceptions of what I say? In the eye of the beholder perhaps? Acid Trip and Jim and Rory [since they both seem to have missed the post] Reading Jim and Rory's posts reminds me of an acid trip I took decades ago. I was *on*, I was *clear* and I was *here*/*there* NOW. Movement that took place was totally done by the *on*, *clear* and *now* - the 'state' itself. It was ecstatic - ecstacy in motion. There was NO movement for 'good' or 'bad'. There was NO self-reflection or 'conscience'. Looking back I can see that some of the things I might have said and done while in fully *in* that 'state' could easily have been seen to be arrogant, uncaring, critical and offensive - and I can see why. There is no self-reflection or conscience. At the time however, I didn't care - there was only the flowing NOW ECSTASY - and had I remained in that 'state' I wonder if I ever *would* have cared. But of course, the acid wore off in about 8 hours so there was no way I could have known. I bring this to an analogy with Jim where he gives a hint that just maybe he *could*, in time, integrate his 'state' into being able to present himself without appearing to be an arrogant asshole. Jim says: I admit being somewhat slow on the uptake regarding my evaluation of others' attitudes towards a frank expression of enlightenment. As I've said before, I don't spend any time at all outside of this forum, and one other, expressing my observations of enlightenment, so my learning about how to express it, and learning about others' reactions are relatively new. I don't attend courses, or visit spiritual teachers or read so-called spiritually oriented books. Maybe Jim actually *is* capable of recognizing that the examples of some of his statements below can easily be considered by others to be arrogant, hostile and offensive. In any case, it's no surprise that any regular person might hold reservations [and even contempt] for statements such as these coming from someone within the context of his claimed 'enlightenment'. Jim says: I am not saying I was immune from this me-better-than-you or you- better-than-me condition, for it is automatic, left over from our animal lives probably. But to also apply it to spiritual pursuit? Oh my God, just *ask* outright for a few more turns on the wheel, why don'cha??? Jim says: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. If I read it correctly, Rory has been in this 'state' for 10+ years and seems to have the same problem of not integrating his consciousness to simple civil effective communication. [Hint: Guru Dev and Maharishi didn't/don't seem to have that problem.]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or to lie to you to make you feel better, if that's what you want That's all I ever wanted from you Rory. You don't call you don't write, and is it too much to ask for a box of chocolates once in a while? You can keep the flowers I got allergies, now pull up a chair and eat, you look like a skeleton, what they don't have any kugel or borscht where you live? Eat and stop with all the fercockt meshuggina and stop acting like a zhlub or you'll never find a shadkhen to introduce you to a nice zaftig shiksa to shtup with yer shvantz, ya nudnik! I don't mean to kvetch. Enough with the schmaltz Bubbala, I'm getting ver clempt. Now gay ga zinta hate, stop being such a fershtinkiner, just tone down the chutzpah bissel. Fershtay? I hope that makes my position a bit clearer. Yeah, yeah, Ma, I get it; don't rock the boat, go along to get along, you gotta be polite to get ahead in the world, when am I going to get a real job and make you proud. It's just not me. But thanks for the borscht :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: Acid Trip and Jim and Rory [since they both seem to have missed the post] Didn't miss it; just didn't think you really wanted to converse :-) Reading Jim and Rory's posts reminds me of an acid trip I took decades snip If I read it correctly, Rory has been in this 'state' for 10+ years It's been 25 years since I saw that 'states' were completely irrelevant. and seems to have the same problem of not integrating his consciousness to simple civil effective communication. It is civil and effective for those who are not resisting; for those who still identify with the Tyrannical Buddhi, it is seen quite rightly as an Act of War :-) [Hint: Guru Dev and Maharishi didn't/don't seem to have that problem.] Here's a little hint from me to you: If you are still resisting Us, then did you really let Guru Dev and MMY finish the job? If you didn't, are you really in any position to judge which of Us is more effective at liberating you? Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-) Yeah. Like I said, arrogant asshole. Perhaps you really think that your being an arrogant asshole really DOES effectively liberate people. GUFFAW!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: Acid Trip and Jim and Rory [since they both seem to have missed the post] Didn't miss it; just didn't think you really wanted to converse :-) Reading Jim and Rory's posts reminds me of an acid trip I took decades snip If I read it correctly, Rory has been in this 'state' for 10+ years It's been 25 years since I saw that 'states' were completely irrelevant. and seems to have the same problem of not integrating his consciousness to simple civil effective communication. It is civil and effective for those who are not resisting; for those who still identify with the Tyrannical Buddhi, it is seen quite rightly as an Act of War :-) [Hint: Guru Dev and Maharishi didn't/don't seem to have that problem.] Here's a little hint from me to you: If you are still resisting Us, then did you really let Guru Dev and MMY finish the job? If you didn't, are you really in any position to judge which of Us is more effective at liberating you? Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-) Yeah. Like I said, arrogant asshole. Perhaps you really think that your being an arrogant asshole really DOES effectively liberate people. GUFFAW! Ergo Maharishi and Guru Dev, Brahmanada Saraswati, have also failed to liberate you John, and so they must also be arrogant assholes?? Surely your failure to live a liberated state is their fault, right? Am I tracking? Are you comfirtable with your logic here?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Acid Trip and Jim and Rory [since they both seem to have missed the post] Didn't miss it; just didn't think you really wanted to converse :-) Reading Jim and Rory's posts reminds me of an acid trip I took decades snip If I read it correctly, Rory has been in this 'state' for 10+ years It's been 25 years since I saw that 'states' were completely irrelevant. and seems to have the same problem of not integrating his consciousness to simple civil effective communication. It is civil and effective for those who are not resisting; for those who still identify with the Tyrannical Buddhi, it is seen quite rightly as an Act of War :-) [Hint: Guru Dev and Maharishi didn't/don't seem to have that problem.] Here's a little hint from me to you: If you are still resisting Us, then did you really let Guru Dev and MMY finish the job? If you didn't, are you really in any position to judge which of Us is more effective at liberating you? Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: R: Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-) Yeah. Like I said, arrogant asshole. Perhaps you really think that your being an arrogant asshole really DOES effectively liberate people. GUFFAW! No, not at all. I repeat: Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-) As far as I can see, people either liberate themselves or they stay in bondage. Death or cake? Oooh, cake, please! *lol*
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: R: Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-) Yeah. Like I said, arrogant asshole. Perhaps you really think that your being an arrogant asshole really DOES effectively liberate people. GUFFAW! No, not at all. I repeat: Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-) As far as I can see, people either liberate themselves or they stay in bondage. Death or cake? Oooh, cake, please! *lol* Cake, always by Betty Crocker, since she is an illusion too!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: Acid Trip and Jim and Rory [since they both seem to have missed the post] Didn't miss it; just didn't think you really wanted to converse :-) Reading Jim and Rory's posts reminds me of an acid trip I took decades snip If I read it correctly, Rory has been in this 'state' for 10+ years It's been 25 years since I saw that 'states' were completely irrelevant. and seems to have the same problem of not integrating his consciousness to simple civil effective communication. It is civil and effective for those who are not resisting; for those who still identify with the Tyrannical Buddhi, it is seen quite rightly as an Act of War :-) [Hint: Guru Dev and Maharishi didn't/don't seem to have that problem.] Here's a little hint from me to you: If you are still resisting Us, then did you really let Guru Dev and MMY finish the job? If you didn't, are you really in any position to judge which of Us is more effective at liberating you? Apparently we are *all* still failing miserably :-) Yeah. Like I said, arrogant asshole. Perhaps you really think that your being an arrogant asshole really DOES effectively liberate people. GUFFAW! Ergo Maharishi and Guru Dev, Brahmanada Saraswati, have also failed to liberate you John, and so they must also be arrogant assholes?? Certainly not, but what they're doing doesn't include acting like assholes. Surely your failure to live a liberated state is their fault, right? Am I tracking? Are you comfirtable with your logic here? I'm perfectly comfortable with 'my' logic, Jim. It's only you and Rory who have suggested Maharishi and Guru Dev [SBS] are failures at what they do. I've made NO such suggestion whatsoever. My point is that Rory indicating that his and your being a assholes is useful accomplish the task, is laughable. BTW, who would want to *become* an arrogant asshole? There seems to be quite an overload of them all over the place as it is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Ergo Maharishi and Guru Dev, Brahmanada Saraswati, have also failed to liberate you John, and so they must also be arrogant assholes?? Certainly not, but what they're doing doesn't include acting like assholes. Surely your failure to live a liberated state is their fault, right? Am I tracking? Are you comfirtable with your logic here? I'm perfectly comfortable with 'my' logic, Jim. It's only you and Rory who have suggested Maharishi and Guru Dev [SBS] are failures at what they do. I've made NO such suggestion whatsoever. My point is that Rory indicating that his and your being a assholes is useful accomplish the task, is laughable. BTW, who would want to *become* an arrogant asshole? There seems to be quite an overload of them all over the place as it is. Ok then-- I'll be an arrogant asshole IF, and only IF, you take responsibility for your failure to achieve liberation. Do we have a deal?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex do.rflex@ wrote: snip Ergo Maharishi and Guru Dev, Brahmanada Saraswati, have also failed to liberate you John, and so they must also be arrogant assholes?? Certainly not, but what they're doing doesn't include acting like assholes. Surely your failure to live a liberated state is their fault, right? Am I tracking? Are you comfirtable with your logic here? I'm perfectly comfortable with 'my' logic, Jim. It's only you and Rory who have suggested Maharishi and Guru Dev [SBS] are failures at what they do. I've made NO such suggestion whatsoever. My point is that Rory indicating that his and your being a assholes is useful accomplish the task, is laughable. BTW, who would want to *become* an arrogant asshole? There seems to be quite an overload of them all over the place as it is. Ok then-- I'll be an arrogant asshole IF, and only IF, you take responsibility for your failure to achieve liberation. Do we have a deal? You already ARE acting like an arrogant asshole - and my achieving or not achieving liberation is none of your business.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
snip Ok then-- I'll be an arrogant asshole IF, and only IF, you take responsibility for your failure to achieve liberation. Do we have a deal? You already ARE acting like an arrogant asshole - and my achieving or not achieving liberation is none of your business. Uh uh, sorry, the deal's off. No arrogant asshole for you! Better luck next time...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Ok then-- I'll be an arrogant asshole IF, and only IF, you take responsibility for your failure to achieve liberation. Do we have a deal? You already ARE acting like an arrogant asshole - and my achieving or not achieving liberation is none of your business. Uh uh, sorry, the deal's off. No arrogant asshole for you! Better luck next time... Bizarre.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
Yes, there is nothing I can see that isn't part of me. I know condescension because I have been guilty of it. I know what it feels like. That we are what we behold is a given. Within that given, however, there are distinctions that a well-trained literary critic can make. I don't know you at all, but I do know your writing. Writing, ultimately, does not tell lies. I don't see condescension when I read William Blake, for instance, even when he criticizes what he sees as the limited vision of John Locke or Isaac Newton. But I do see it when I read your writing, less so in Rory, but still there. Now you may not be aware of any of that, but I am not the only one who sees this condescension in your writing. With so many people seeing it, may there not be a grain of truth to it? jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Jim and Rory may well be enlightened, but they don't seem to have enough self-awareness to notice how they come across. Maybe they just don't give a shit. a How can I *control* your perception of me Angela? Even if I could, I have no interest in doing so. Why do we all have such different perceptions of what I say? In the eye of the beholder perhaps? Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
You're a gifted writer, deltablues. curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or to lie to you to make you feel better, if that's what you want That's all I ever wanted from you Rory. You don't call you don't write, and is it too much to ask for a box of chocolates once in a while? You can keep the flowers I got allergies, now pull up a chair and eat, you look like a skeleton, what they don't have any kugel or borscht where you live? Eat and stop with all the fercockt meshuggina and stop acting like a zhlub or you'll never find a shadkhen to introduce you to a nice zaftig shiksa to shtup with yer shvantz, ya nudnik! I don't mean to kvetch. Enough with the schmaltz Bubbala, I'm getting ver clempt. Now gay ga zinta hate, stop being such a fershtinkiner, just tone down the chutzpah bissel. Fershtay? I hope that makes my position a bit clearer. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best. Yeah, I'm just an adorable, tousled haired, big hearted, unenlightened scamp aren't I? I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. I'm not here to keep quiet about what I see, or to lie to you to make you feel better, if that's what you want. I'm here to tell the truth as simply and as clearly as I can -- I feel I owe you that much. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're a gifted writer, deltablues. A sheynem dank, gutte neshome. curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: or to lie to you to make you feel better, if that's what you want That's all I ever wanted from you Rory. You don't call you don't write, and is it too much to ask for a box of chocolates once in a while? You can keep the flowers I got allergies, now pull up a chair and eat, you look like a skeleton, what they don't have any kugel or borscht where you live? Eat and stop with all the fercockt meshuggina and stop acting like a zhlub or you'll never find a shadkhen to introduce you to a nice zaftig shiksa to shtup with yer shvantz, ya nudnik! I don't mean to kvetch. Enough with the schmaltz Bubbala, I'm getting ver clempt. Now gay ga zinta hate, stop being such a fershtinkiner, just tone down the chutzpah bissel. Fershtay? I hope that makes my position a bit clearer. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: AnyOne of Us who can listen...? If what I say doesn't resonate for you, feel free to ignore it, of course. FWIW I too am really moved by your great heart, Curtis, and I wish you nothing but the best. Yeah, I'm just an adorable, tousled haired, big hearted, unenlightened scamp aren't I? I don't sense any openness to feedback here so I'll just leave it at that. I'm not here to keep quiet about what I see, or to lie to you to make you feel better, if that's what you want. I'm here to tell the truth as simply and as clearly as I can -- I feel I owe you that much. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
---re - statement below MMY doesn't have that problem. That's cuz he insulates himself against any contructive feedback that doesn't agree with his initial POV. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, do.rflex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander mailander111@ wrote: Yes, excellent point. I've never seen MMY actually communicate with anyone. Jim and Rory may well be enlightened, but they don't seem to have enough self-awareness to notice how they come across. Maybe they just don't give a shit. a How can I *control* your perception of me Angela? Even if I could, I have no interest in doing so. Why do we all have such different perceptions of what I say? In the eye of the beholder perhaps? Acid Trip and Jim and Rory [since they both seem to have missed the post] Reading Jim and Rory's posts reminds me of an acid trip I took decades ago. I was *on*, I was *clear* and I was *here*/*there* NOW. Movement that took place was totally done by the *on*, *clear* and *now* - the 'state' itself. It was ecstatic - ecstacy in motion. There was NO movement for 'good' or 'bad'. There was NO self-reflection or 'conscience'. Looking back I can see that some of the things I might have said and done while in fully *in* that 'state' could easily have been seen to be arrogant, uncaring, critical and offensive - and I can see why. There is no self-reflection or conscience. At the time however, I didn't care - there was only the flowing NOW ECSTASY - and had I remained in that 'state' I wonder if I ever *would* have cared. But of course, the acid wore off in about 8 hours so there was no way I could have known. I bring this to an analogy with Jim where he gives a hint that just maybe he *could*, in time, integrate his 'state' into being able to present himself without appearing to be an arrogant asshole. Jim says: I admit being somewhat slow on the uptake regarding my evaluation of others' attitudes towards a frank expression of enlightenment. As I've said before, I don't spend any time at all outside of this forum, and one other, expressing my observations of enlightenment, so my learning about how to express it, and learning about others' reactions are relatively new. I don't attend courses, or visit spiritual teachers or read so-called spiritually oriented books. Maybe Jim actually *is* capable of recognizing that the examples of some of his statements below can easily be considered by others to be arrogant, hostile and offensive. In any case, it's no surprise that any regular person might hold reservations [and even contempt] for statements such as these coming from someone within the context of his claimed 'enlightenment'. Jim says: I am not saying I was immune from this me-better-than-you or you- better-than-me condition, for it is automatic, left over from our animal lives probably. But to also apply it to spiritual pursuit? Oh my God, just *ask* outright for a few more turns on the wheel, why don'cha??? Jim says: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. If I read it correctly, Rory has been in this 'state' for 10+ years and seems to have the same problem of not integrating his consciousness to simple civil effective communication. [Hint: Guru Dev and Maharishi didn't/don't seem to have that problem.]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, there is nothing I can see that isn't part of me. I know condescension because I have been guilty of it. I know what it feels like. That we are what we behold is a given. Within that given, however, there are distinctions that a well-trained literary critic can make. I don't know you at all, but I do know your writing. Writing, ultimately, does not tell lies. I don't see condescension when I read William Blake, for instance, even when he criticizes what he sees as the limited vision of John Locke or Isaac Newton. But I do see it when I read your writing, less so in Rory, but still there. Now you may not be aware of any of that, but I am not the only one who sees this condescension in your writing. With so many people seeing it, may there not be a grain of truth to it? I will refer to Rory's explanation when he spoke about being uncompromising with regard to addressing the identification with the Tyrannical Buddhi, or ability to discriminate. When people identify with that, vs. the more fundamental oneness that we truly are, they will feel offended by what I am saying. If you feel offended, that is an accurate perception because of what I am specifically attacking. I will say though, that my attacks are not aimed at people indiscriminately, or even people themselves and every word has a specific meaning and sequence when so aimed. I have nothing to criticize about what I see as your and others' true nature, and if you read my postings carefully you will see that I am not out to hurt or criticize people here. I am often quite supportive of the positive messages expressed here. I hope that answers your question.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
You know, if I were enlightened, I would expect that part of my freedom, part of my meat robot's new world, would be the duty or privilege of setting folks straight about enlightenment, and if the folks want to tussle, well, the enlightened can give what's given to them backacha TIMES TEN. Arjuna was expected to kill for a holy purpose, and killing the mean steak in anyone who'd knee jerkingly doubt the spirituality of another seems par for the course. If anyone stood up and told Maharishi that he was full of shit, every TB in the room WOULD EXPECT MAHARISHI TO UNLOAD WITH THE SAME INTENSITY THAT ARJUNA WAS IMAGINED TO HAVE WHEN HE PULLED BACK HIS ARROW. See tamas, stomp tamas. If it takes Jim being smarmy and haughty in order for some of you guys to get it that the personality of a meat robot is insignificant in what it does or thinks, and that form means nothing compared to FORMLESSNESS, then maybe Jim will just have to continue to be in that vibe that gets the naysayers puking. If Jim yelled at me for something I posted, I'd read it ten times. Every scripture has saints who kill, lie, rape, swindle, etc. in the cause of upholding the integrity of spirituality itself. Those who will not even consider that God exists are the proper targets for such low behavoir on the parts of the enlightened. Those who cannot see the concept of Kali Yuga being within the integrity of God are doomed to miss the lessons that life can give when dissonance arises. I hated all the Maharishi really yelled last night gossip-from-the-back-room I heard -- it was hard to take, cuz I thought enlightenment meant that one would never have to suffer negativity, but in fact that would be a crippling of the enlightened's freedom. Even Christ was allowed to be angry at the money changers and whupped their asses to model that, right? One has to stand up for reality. In fact, Curtis and Barry would agree with the necessity of being themselves and not some pretense, and I'm sure we'd see some fantastic haughtiness on their parts if anyone called them fakes, but in fact, by their own definitions of integrity, they know themselves to be faking a hell of a lot of time in their various roles in life. For you guys to heap shit upon Rory and Jim instead of politely questioning them so as to gain clarity about their -- take your pick -- enlightenment or their delusions is certainly not something you'd teach your kids. Or, if you would teach your kids to be so immediately triggerable and to enter into a defensive derision, then you are even worse off than I presently think of some of the abusers and flamers here. If anything, Jim and Rory might be insane and the group's general attitude here would certainly not be up to suicide hotline standards. In fact, I think there'd be general glee in many here if, say, Jim did unravel and become insanewith hoots and hollars about see I told you that dude was cracked. This in not a human response if one is chiding others who one considers to be deeply deluded. Curtis, I will say that you try far harder than Barry to be polite, but you are easily snapped into derision. This group is so often showing it's thuggery when it comes to trying to make a community work. I'd rather have Rory and Jim be my next door neighbors than almost any of the others here -- not that I believe these two cuz I'm worn out and don't have the energy to really test their waters, but I believe in my intuitive resonance with their love of all experiencing and that their every second is intense, subtle, and vast. I should get some rest, get checked and have at them advaitically speaking -- just to notch up my own clarity by considering their comebacks. Even if they're lying boobs, we could all benefit from testing their waters -- if anything to see what we ourselves will come up with in order to bring concept after concept to challenge them. If a stamp collector came here, I'd have some questions for him/her about the hobby, but I sure wouldn't take up stamp collecting or put them down for being so resonant with the hobby. Rory and Jim are resonant with something -- that's for sure. Even the naysayers are impacted by the steel in their posts. They've got a grip on something or some non-thing, and my theory is that it just grinds someone like Barry to think that someone else could make it all the way when Barry tried so hard in so many ways and failed so deeply that he's tossed the baby out with the bathwater and now must beat upon anyone who insists that babies exist. Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, there is nothing I can see that isn't part of me. I know condescension because I have been guilty of it. I know what it feels like. That we are what we behold is a given. Within that given, however, there are distinctions that a well-trained literary critic can make. I don't know you at all, but I do know your writing. Writing, ultimately, does
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
Every scripture has saints who kill, lie, rape, swindle, etc. in the cause of upholding the integrity of spirituality itself. Those who will not even consider that God exists are the proper targets for such low behavoir on the parts of the enlightened. Atheists are all too aware of this fanatical position throughout history. Seeing it supported in this day and age by you Edg creeps me out to the max. But it doesn't surprise me one bit. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know, if I were enlightened, I would expect that part of my freedom, part of my meat robot's new world, would be the duty or privilege of setting folks straight about enlightenment, and if the folks want to tussle, well, the enlightened can give what's given to them backacha TIMES TEN. Arjuna was expected to kill for a holy purpose, and killing the mean steak in anyone who'd knee jerkingly doubt the spirituality of another seems par for the course. If anyone stood up and told Maharishi that he was full of shit, every TB in the room WOULD EXPECT MAHARISHI TO UNLOAD WITH THE SAME INTENSITY THAT ARJUNA WAS IMAGINED TO HAVE WHEN HE PULLED BACK HIS ARROW. See tamas, stomp tamas. If it takes Jim being smarmy and haughty in order for some of you guys to get it that the personality of a meat robot is insignificant in what it does or thinks, and that form means nothing compared to FORMLESSNESS, then maybe Jim will just have to continue to be in that vibe that gets the naysayers puking. If Jim yelled at me for something I posted, I'd read it ten times. Every scripture has saints who kill, lie, rape, swindle, etc. in the cause of upholding the integrity of spirituality itself. Those who will not even consider that God exists are the proper targets for such low behavoir on the parts of the enlightened. Those who cannot see the concept of Kali Yuga being within the integrity of God are doomed to miss the lessons that life can give when dissonance arises. I hated all the Maharishi really yelled last night gossip-from-the-back-room I heard -- it was hard to take, cuz I thought enlightenment meant that one would never have to suffer negativity, but in fact that would be a crippling of the enlightened's freedom. Even Christ was allowed to be angry at the money changers and whupped their asses to model that, right? One has to stand up for reality. In fact, Curtis and Barry would agree with the necessity of being themselves and not some pretense, and I'm sure we'd see some fantastic haughtiness on their parts if anyone called them fakes, but in fact, by their own definitions of integrity, they know themselves to be faking a hell of a lot of time in their various roles in life. For you guys to heap shit upon Rory and Jim instead of politely questioning them so as to gain clarity about their -- take your pick -- enlightenment or their delusions is certainly not something you'd teach your kids. Or, if you would teach your kids to be so immediately triggerable and to enter into a defensive derision, then you are even worse off than I presently think of some of the abusers and flamers here. If anything, Jim and Rory might be insane and the group's general attitude here would certainly not be up to suicide hotline standards. In fact, I think there'd be general glee in many here if, say, Jim did unravel and become insanewith hoots and hollars about see I told you that dude was cracked. This in not a human response if one is chiding others who one considers to be deeply deluded. Curtis, I will say that you try far harder than Barry to be polite, but you are easily snapped into derision. This group is so often showing it's thuggery when it comes to trying to make a community work. I'd rather have Rory and Jim be my next door neighbors than almost any of the others here -- not that I believe these two cuz I'm worn out and don't have the energy to really test their waters, but I believe in my intuitive resonance with their love of all experiencing and that their every second is intense, subtle, and vast. I should get some rest, get checked and have at them advaitically speaking -- just to notch up my own clarity by considering their comebacks. Even if they're lying boobs, we could all benefit from testing their waters -- if anything to see what we ourselves will come up with in order to bring concept after concept to challenge them. If a stamp collector came here, I'd have some questions for him/her about the hobby, but I sure wouldn't take up stamp collecting or put them down for being so resonant with the hobby. Rory and Jim are resonant with something -- that's for sure. Even the naysayers are impacted by the steel in their posts. They've got a grip on something or some non-thing, and my theory is that it just grinds someone like Barry to think that someone else could make it all the way when Barry tried so
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know, if I were enlightened, I would expect that part of my freedom, part of my meat robot's new world, would be the duty or privilege of setting folks straight about enlightenment, and if the folks want to tussle, well, the enlightened can give what's given to them backacha TIMES TEN. Arjuna was expected to kill for a holy purpose, and killing the mean steak in anyone who'd knee jerkingly doubt the spirituality of another seems par for the course. If anyone stood up and told Maharishi that he was full of shit, every TB in the room WOULD EXPECT MAHARISHI TO UNLOAD WITH THE SAME INTENSITY THAT ARJUNA WAS IMAGINED TO HAVE WHEN HE PULLED BACK HIS ARROW. See tamas, stomp tamas. If it takes Jim being smarmy and haughty in order for some of you guys to get it that the personality of a meat robot is insignificant in what it does or thinks, and that form means nothing compared to FORMLESSNESS, then maybe Jim will just have to continue to be in that vibe that gets the naysayers puking. If Jim yelled at me for something I posted, I'd read it ten times. Every scripture has saints who kill, lie, rape, swindle, etc. in the cause of upholding the integrity of spirituality itself. Those who will not even consider that God exists are the proper targets for such low behavoir on the parts of the enlightened. Those who cannot see the concept of Kali Yuga being within the integrity of God are doomed to miss the lessons that life can give when dissonance arises. I hated all the Maharishi really yelled last night gossip-from-the-back-room I heard -- it was hard to take, cuz I thought enlightenment meant that one would never have to suffer negativity, but in fact that would be a crippling of the enlightened's freedom. Even Christ was allowed to be angry at the money changers and whupped their asses to model that, right? One has to stand up for reality. In fact, Curtis and Barry would agree with the necessity of being themselves and not some pretense, and I'm sure we'd see some fantastic haughtiness on their parts if anyone called them fakes, but in fact, by their own definitions of integrity, they know themselves to be faking a hell of a lot of time in their various roles in life. For you guys to heap shit upon Rory and Jim instead of politely questioning them so as to gain clarity about their -- take your pick -- enlightenment or their delusions is certainly not something you'd teach your kids. Or, if you would teach your kids to be so immediately triggerable and to enter into a defensive derision, then you are even worse off than I presently think of some of the abusers and flamers here. If anything, Jim and Rory might be insane and the group's general attitude here would certainly not be up to suicide hotline standards. In fact, I think there'd be general glee in many here if, say, Jim did unravel and become insanewith hoots and hollars about see I told you that dude was cracked. This in not a human response if one is chiding others who one considers to be deeply deluded. Curtis, I will say that you try far harder than Barry to be polite, but you are easily snapped into derision. This group is so often showing it's thuggery when it comes to trying to make a community work. I'd rather have Rory and Jim be my next door neighbors than almost any of the others here -- not that I believe these two cuz I'm worn out and don't have the energy to really test their waters, but I believe in my intuitive resonance with their love of all experiencing and that their every second is intense, subtle, and vast. I should get some rest, get checked and have at them advaitically speaking -- just to notch up my own clarity by considering their comebacks. Even if they're lying boobs, we could all benefit from testing their waters -- if anything to see what we ourselves will come up with in order to bring concept after concept to challenge them. If a stamp collector came here, I'd have some questions for him/her about the hobby, but I sure wouldn't take up stamp collecting or put them down for being so resonant with the hobby. Rory and Jim are resonant with something -- that's for sure. Even the naysayers are impacted by the steel in their posts. They've got a grip on something or some non-thing, and my theory is that it just grinds someone like Barry to think that someone else could make it all the way when Barry tried so hard in so many ways and failed so deeply that he's tossed the baby out with the bathwater and now must beat upon anyone who insists that babies exist. Edg Bullshit is bullshit, Mr. Edg.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
I do not feel offended. Your condescension was never directed at me, I just happened to notice it and also noticed honest efforts on the part of others to make you aware of it. So I thought I'd put in my two cents worth as a more or less objective observer. Intellect makes discriminations, and keeps doing it regardless of the state of enlightenment or lack thereof. I imagine that in the state of enlightenment discriminations are made without feeling tyrannized by them. I do read your posts carefully. My perceptions are based on careful reading, nor are my perceptions intended to hurt you. You're enlightened in any case, so beyond being hurt by anyone's observations. a jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, there is nothing I can see that isn't part of me. I know condescension because I have been guilty of it. I know what it feels like. That we are what we behold is a given. Within that given, however, there are distinctions that a well-trained literary critic can make. I don't know you at all, but I do know your writing. Writing, ultimately, does not tell lies. I don't see condescension when I read William Blake, for instance, even when he criticizes what he sees as the limited vision of John Locke or Isaac Newton. But I do see it when I read your writing, less so in Rory, but still there. Now you may not be aware of any of that, but I am not the only one who sees this condescension in your writing. With so many people seeing it, may there not be a grain of truth to it? I will refer to Rory's explanation when he spoke about being uncompromising with regard to addressing the identification with the Tyrannical Buddhi, or ability to discriminate. When people identify with that, vs. the more fundamental oneness that we truly are, they will feel offended by what I am saying. If you feel offended, that is an accurate perception because of what I am specifically attacking. I will say though, that my attacks are not aimed at people indiscriminately, or even people themselves and every word has a specific meaning and sequence when so aimed. I have nothing to criticize about what I see as your and others' true nature, and if you read my postings carefully you will see that I am not out to hurt or criticize people here. I am often quite supportive of the positive messages expressed here. I hope that answers your question. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know, if I were enlightened, I would expect that part of my freedom, part of my meat robot's new world, would be the duty or privilege of setting folks straight about enlightenment, and if the folks want to tussle, well, the enlightened can give what's given to them backacha TIMES TEN. snip I just do and say what comes naturally. I cannot help that it tweaks some people-- there doesn't seem to be any room for compromise in this way. The little that I have read on this topic talks about the polarization between those who identify with Oneness and those who don't, when we are specifically expressing our experiences. It is a fundamentally different view and experience of the world, and when expressed outright is just plainly and simply what it is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Every scripture has saints who kill, lie, rape, swindle, etc. in the cause of upholding the integrity of spirituality itself. Those who will not even consider that God exists are the proper targets for such low behavoir on the parts of the enlightened. Atheists are all too aware of this fanatical position throughout history. Seeing it supported in this day and age by you Edg creeps me out to the max. But it doesn't surprise me one bit. I agree-- that does sound fanatical, and I cannot think of it being ever OK to commit a crime in the name of enlightenment.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I do not feel offended. Your condescension was never directed at me, I just happened to notice it and also noticed honest efforts on the part of others to make you aware of it. So I thought I'd put in my two cents worth as a more or less objective observer. Intellect makes discriminations, and keeps doing it regardless of the state of enlightenment or lack thereof. I imagine that in the state of enlightenment discriminations are made without feeling tyrannized by them. I do read your posts carefully. My perceptions are based on careful reading, nor are my perceptions intended to hurt you. You're enlightened in any case, so beyond being hurt by anyone's observations. a Thank you for your honest and straightforward dialogue. This is as new for me as it is for anyone else. I enjoy it, and who knows what lies around the next turn?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
Moses was told to kill whole tribes -- genocide pure and simple. I can hardly write the words -- it's terrible. Okay, what do you do with that when you want to consider the personality of God? First I note that God didn't say to Moses, I want that you really enjoy killing. I'm no biblical scholar but I'm going to be surprised if anyone can find a biblical passage that has God telling Moses to taint his soul with an identification into being a murderer. And like Jim, even Lot argued with God that Sodom and Gomorrah should be spared. The carnage is a harsh bit to surrender too. That was Noah's meat robot not having clarityyet. I do consider Moses' actions as one of the worst case scenarios, and God's letting Satan take all of Job's wives, etc. was another. But, it happened -- there had to be examples of hard actions being seen as holy in that a deeper lesson was being revealed. And that a robotic POV was to be transcended. Kali Yuga -- I'm guessing you folks don't understand the concept that no one exists and thus cannot be killed, or if they do exist then they are fated to be killed in some manner down the line. This is God's way in every tradition -- not in Edg's interpretations of traditions. God has no attachment to the dream characters in exactly the same fashion that none of us are attached to any of our own dream characters. We wake up from dreams having been every kind of personality and do not think twice about what we did therein. Maharishi says, Don't look for the Absolute in the Relative. Well, that means none of the ten commandments are Absolutes. Exceptions to every rule donchaknow. Every rule -- well, maybe except identification. That's why Vaj might be found meditating on a corpse -- to get over the illusion of death -- not because it's the best place to meditate, but to get over the attachment to being human and fearing death. To swindle someone and not be enlightened is to incur karma and one will have to pay the price of breaking the rule of not being a thief, but an enlightened person can -- MUST -- do whatever spontaneously springs forth, and sometimes that's swindling someone. Jim doesn't want to kill or swindle -- that's a good sign that he's not going to spontaneously manifest those dynamics, but, don't kid yourself, like all of us, he'd kill anyone holding a knife to his child's throat if that was his Jack Baur moment of doing the hard thing to be in tune with righteousness. All scriptures say these things. This is not about me. I think it's touching that Jim is taking the position below, but he would be the first to say that no concept ever invented will come between him and God. God says, Jump off the cliff. You gotta jump, right? Oh, I know the slaughter that has been justified by these concepts, but those are by unenlightened personalities who are taking advantage self-servingly and ruining a religion in doing so. It seems every Pope in history did just such an egoic thingy. It was wrong. Anyone here who fills their gas tank today will be colluding with BushCo in the swindling of oil reserves from invaded nations. You all will justify this somehow, but you cannot see yourselves ever justifying killing or swindling? Yeah, right. All my sins, thus far, have been by a meat robot, but if I do get enlightened, I don't expect life to change instantly, and in the meanwhile, I expect that my dark proclivities will be useful to God in some manner. If God needs someone ass raged upon, well, all He's gotta do is take me off the leash. All of you, upon awakening from a dream would be incredibly astounded if one of your dream creations did something you didn't intend. Just so does an enlightened person belong to God. This is freedom from sin, and it puts it all on God. If someone identifies with killing etc., then one is sinning and is not following God's intent. There's no wiggle room here. If you're identifying, you're sinningeven if you're praying. Only at maybe the highest levels of bhakti does one have the possibility of identifying without sinning, but that is still not a state of enlightenment.merely perfection -- not freedom. Doership is the primal sinit is an act of thievery from God. Doership is a crime by Jim's definition and usage below, and of course, in the present venue, where almost everyone is not enlightened, of course, his knee jerk would be to naysay such harsh actions that I have used for my hyperbolic creative writing, but maybe we can get Jim to delineate what a crime against his nature would really be, and see if he doesn't struggle with the words, because there's no commandment that's an absolute. And of course, given my limitations, I would never, not in my deepest most true believing days, have jumped off a cliff for Maharishi -- he just was never God to me. But that said, I did lie for him, and knew I was a liar. The lies might have not been sins, they might by chance have been serving the needs of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
---Regarding actions that the Enlightened are enjoined (must) to something spontaneously while the un-Enlightened are stuck with some other course of action doesn't make sense. The only difference is the identification. Here's the statement --below-- (which seems to imply that given equal actions, the E'd accumulate no bad karma whist others do). IMO: both groups incur the bad karma and ascertaining what is spontaneous and what's not is an impossibility. This would imply that the unenlightened are capable of BOTH spontaneous AND non- spontaneous actions, while the E'd are capable of only the former. Doesn't make sense and the lack of logic can (and has) easily led to a slipperty slope to the false argument that the E'd are incapable of making mistakes. To swindle someone and not be enlightened is to incur karma and one will have to pay the price of breaking the rule of not being a thief, but an enlightened person can -- MUST -- do whatever spontaneously springs forth, and sometimes that's swindling someone In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moses was told to kill whole tribes -- genocide pure and simple. I can hardly write the words -- it's terrible. Okay, what do you do with that when you want to consider the personality of God? First I note that God didn't say to Moses, I want that you really enjoy killing. I'm no biblical scholar but I'm going to be surprised if anyone can find a biblical passage that has God telling Moses to taint his soul with an identification into being a murderer. And like Jim, even Lot argued with God that Sodom and Gomorrah should be spared. The carnage is a harsh bit to surrender too. That was Noah's meat robot not having clarityyet. I do consider Moses' actions as one of the worst case scenarios, and God's letting Satan take all of Job's wives, etc. was another. But, it happened -- there had to be examples of hard actions being seen as holy in that a deeper lesson was being revealed. And that a robotic POV was to be transcended. Kali Yuga -- I'm guessing you folks don't understand the concept that no one exists and thus cannot be killed, or if they do exist then they are fated to be killed in some manner down the line. This is God's way in every tradition -- not in Edg's interpretations of traditions. God has no attachment to the dream characters in exactly the same fashion that none of us are attached to any of our own dream characters. We wake up from dreams having been every kind of personality and do not think twice about what we did therein. Maharishi says, Don't look for the Absolute in the Relative. Well, that means none of the ten commandments are Absolutes. Exceptions to every rule donchaknow. Every rule -- well, maybe except identification. That's why Vaj might be found meditating on a corpse -- to get over the illusion of death -- not because it's the best place to meditate, but to get over the attachment to being human and fearing death. To swindle someone and not be enlightened is to incur karma and one will have to pay the price of breaking the rule of not being a thief, but an enlightened person can -- MUST -- do whatever spontaneously springs forth, and sometimes that's swindling someone. Jim doesn't want to kill or swindle -- that's a good sign that he's not going to spontaneously manifest those dynamics, but, don't kid yourself, like all of us, he'd kill anyone holding a knife to his child's throat if that was his Jack Baur moment of doing the hard thing to be in tune with righteousness. All scriptures say these things. This is not about me. I think it's touching that Jim is taking the position below, but he would be the first to say that no concept ever invented will come between him and God. God says, Jump off the cliff. You gotta jump, right? Oh, I know the slaughter that has been justified by these concepts, but those are by unenlightened personalities who are taking advantage self-servingly and ruining a religion in doing so. It seems every Pope in history did just such an egoic thingy. It was wrong. Anyone here who fills their gas tank today will be colluding with BushCo in the swindling of oil reserves from invaded nations. You all will justify this somehow, but you cannot see yourselves ever justifying killing or swindling? Yeah, right. All my sins, thus far, have been by a meat robot, but if I do get enlightened, I don't expect life to change instantly, and in the meanwhile, I expect that my dark proclivities will be useful to God in some manner. If God needs someone ass raged upon, well, all He's gotta do is take me off the leash. All of you, upon awakening from a dream would be incredibly astounded if one of your dream creations did something you didn't intend. Just so does an enlightened person belong to God. This is freedom from sin, and it puts it all on God.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
All my sins, thus far, have been by a meat robot, but if I do get enlightened, I don't expect life to change instantly, and in the meanwhile, I expect that my dark proclivities will be useful to God in some manner. If God needs someone ass raged upon, well, all He's gotta do is take me off the leash. So you wont go homicidally postal against atheists unless you decide by your own self selected arbitrary criteria that you have become enlightened? That makes me feel so much better. OBTW, all that stuff God did in the Old Testament...God is too embarrassed to tell you personally but that was all bullshit. He had just learned how to extract pure methamphetamine out of Ma huang plants and was tweek'n hard for a few thousand years. But he is working his 12 step, and although relapse is a part of recovery (Darfur), he is committed to making this work this time and getting his kids back from county services. Oh yeah and he specifically wanted me to tell you not to kill anyone even if he begs you. (Its just that it is so easy to get pills on the Internet now and he occasionally gets jacked up on Vicodin to take the edge off and it makes him a little nuts.) Got that Edg? Even if he begs you, he was very clear about this. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Moses was told to kill whole tribes -- genocide pure and simple. I can hardly write the words -- it's terrible. Okay, what do you do with that when you want to consider the personality of God? First I note that God didn't say to Moses, I want that you really enjoy killing. I'm no biblical scholar but I'm going to be surprised if anyone can find a biblical passage that has God telling Moses to taint his soul with an identification into being a murderer. And like Jim, even Lot argued with God that Sodom and Gomorrah should be spared. The carnage is a harsh bit to surrender too. That was Noah's meat robot not having clarityyet. I do consider Moses' actions as one of the worst case scenarios, and God's letting Satan take all of Job's wives, etc. was another. But, it happened -- there had to be examples of hard actions being seen as holy in that a deeper lesson was being revealed. And that a robotic POV was to be transcended. Kali Yuga -- I'm guessing you folks don't understand the concept that no one exists and thus cannot be killed, or if they do exist then they are fated to be killed in some manner down the line. This is God's way in every tradition -- not in Edg's interpretations of traditions. God has no attachment to the dream characters in exactly the same fashion that none of us are attached to any of our own dream characters. We wake up from dreams having been every kind of personality and do not think twice about what we did therein. Maharishi says, Don't look for the Absolute in the Relative. Well, that means none of the ten commandments are Absolutes. Exceptions to every rule donchaknow. Every rule -- well, maybe except identification. That's why Vaj might be found meditating on a corpse -- to get over the illusion of death -- not because it's the best place to meditate, but to get over the attachment to being human and fearing death. To swindle someone and not be enlightened is to incur karma and one will have to pay the price of breaking the rule of not being a thief, but an enlightened person can -- MUST -- do whatever spontaneously springs forth, and sometimes that's swindling someone. Jim doesn't want to kill or swindle -- that's a good sign that he's not going to spontaneously manifest those dynamics, but, don't kid yourself, like all of us, he'd kill anyone holding a knife to his child's throat if that was his Jack Baur moment of doing the hard thing to be in tune with righteousness. All scriptures say these things. This is not about me. I think it's touching that Jim is taking the position below, but he would be the first to say that no concept ever invented will come between him and God. God says, Jump off the cliff. You gotta jump, right? Oh, I know the slaughter that has been justified by these concepts, but those are by unenlightened personalities who are taking advantage self-servingly and ruining a religion in doing so. It seems every Pope in history did just such an egoic thingy. It was wrong. Anyone here who fills their gas tank today will be colluding with BushCo in the swindling of oil reserves from invaded nations. You all will justify this somehow, but you cannot see yourselves ever justifying killing or swindling? Yeah, right. All my sins, thus far, have been by a meat robot, but if I do get enlightened, I don't expect life to change instantly, and in the meanwhile, I expect that my dark proclivities will be useful to God in some manner. If God needs someone ass raged upon, well, all He's gotta do is take me off the leash. All of you, upon awakening from a dream would be
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Duveyoung [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Jim doesn't want to kill or swindle -- that's a good sign that he's not going to spontaneously manifest those dynamics, but, don't kid yourself, like all of us, he'd kill anyone holding a knife to his child's throat if that was his Jack Baur moment of doing the hard thing to be in tune with righteousness. snip Funny you should mention this-- there is a correlation to the state of consciousness that we have been discussing here, and that is I and my loved ones feel safe. In a tumultuous world, it is almost like a pre- emptive bubble of peace and safety surrounds me and my loved ones. Can't explain it any further than that, except to say that it is experiential and palpable. Perhaps it is related to an absence of fear. Also whenever I am in a challenging or potentially dangerous situation I communicate directly with those more powerful than me, to ensure a safe passage, or just take a moment to clear the way. Much better than the old style of looking figuratively over my shoulder.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: BTW do you believe that the rapture of Christianity is a fantasy? Same thing for me so far about enlightenment. But perhaps someone will hover in the air someday and I can happily amend my opinion. I doubt that very much Curtis. There are people on this forum that would and do renounce the reality of enlightenment, no matter what is presented to them. Why? Because all enlightenment is, is a radical departure from how we see ourselves in terms of our relationship with our universe; with no longer any stories or concepts filtering our immediate experience. That is a very threatening reality to many, despite in most cases their former years being supposedly committed to the dissolution of such stories and filters. As I like to say of such peoples' thinking, unbounded awareness is great, but enough is enough. Curtis, I think framing an analogy for this phenomenon may be useful. People don't see that Jim deomonstrates any of the qualities he professes to have in abundance-- e.g., perfect intellignece perfect knowingness on and on -- and he blames this on the shortcomings of others. Even painting them as threatened and apparently shallow and insincere. It would be difficult, I think, for a novelist to make this stuff up. Life can be stranger than fiction. Still, tut there must be some apt analogy for this -- to immortalize the phenomenon. So continue as you choose to doubt and question and challenge, and in general protect all that you think is yours. Make every statement in favor of enlightenment, here and now, a rebuttal of your precious and protected self. Define each statement in favor of eternal freedom, available right now, in terms of a strange dualistic concept, where everything stated as Real is found to be either above or below you, either inferior or superior. Continue to ridicule and cast doubt on those who have awakened to life's Reality. I see clearly that there is nothing to be done about it, unless and until you and others choose to literally change your minds and hearts. I have nothing to prove to you, nor do I write for your benefit, as you have amply demonstrated.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
The thing about being enlightened that I personally don't like all that much is that I am surrounded by unenlightened idiots. How could this have happened? I'm incarnate in a sea of idiots reflecting all that profound idiocy back to me??? Incredible. new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: BTW do you believe that the rapture of Christianity is a fantasy? Same thing for me so far about enlightenment. But perhaps someone will hover in the air someday and I can happily amend my opinion. I doubt that very much Curtis. There are people on this forum that would and do renounce the reality of enlightenment, no matter what is presented to them. Why? Because all enlightenment is, is a radical departure from how we see ourselves in terms of our relationship with our universe; with no longer any stories or concepts filtering our immediate experience. That is a very threatening reality to many, despite in most cases their former years being supposedly committed to the dissolution of such stories and filters. As I like to say of such peoples' thinking, unbounded awareness is great, but enough is enough. Curtis, I think framing an analogy for this phenomenon may be useful. People don't see that Jim deomonstrates any of the qualities he professes to have in abundance-- e.g., perfect intellignece perfect knowingness on and on -- and he blames this on the shortcomings of others. Even painting them as threatened and apparently shallow and insincere. It would be difficult, I think, for a novelist to make this stuff up. Life can be stranger than fiction. Still, tut there must be some apt analogy for this -- to immortalize the phenomenon. So continue as you choose to doubt and question and challenge, and in general protect all that you think is yours. Make every statement in favor of enlightenment, here and now, a rebuttal of your precious and protected self. Define each statement in favor of eternal freedom, available right now, in terms of a strange dualistic concept, where everything stated as Real is found to be either above or below you, either inferior or superior. Continue to ridicule and cast doubt on those who have awakened to life's Reality. I see clearly that there is nothing to be done about it, unless and until you and others choose to literally change your minds and hearts. I have nothing to prove to you, nor do I write for your benefit, as you have amply demonstrated. Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Angela Mailander [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thing about being enlightened that I personally don't like all that much is that I am surrounded by unenlightened idiots. How could this have happened? I'm incarnate in a sea of idiots reflecting all that profound idiocy back to me??? Incredible. You misunderstand me. I don't mind my circumstances at all. Quite happy actually. I don't consider unenlightened people idiots at all, or people in general idiots. What an awful thought! What a weird and confining and miserable existence that single thought would create, wouldn't it? What I was expressing in my previous post is that gaining enlightenment or gaining a desire for enlightenment is not at all about someone proving the benefits of enlightenment to you, that it somehow emerges as a rational decision based on external evidence. Not at all. I was also expressing my annoyance at how an expression of enlightenment here and now is regarded by some with disdain, and a kind of spoiled child attitude. I admit being somewhat slow on the uptake regarding my evaluation of others' attitudes towards a frank expression of enlightenment. As I've said before, I don't spend any time at all outside of this forum, and one other, expressing my observations of enlightenment, so my learning about how to express it, and learning about others' reactions are relatively new. I don't attend courses, or visit spiritual teachers or read so-called spiritually oriented books. I never in all my years of seeking this state had the attitude that those who were enlightened felt that they were better than me, or that I had to challenge them constantly, or that somehow all that I had in life was owed to me, which are all attitudes I find with some people here. Its frankly somewhat shocking. I spent my years seeking enlightenment mostly by myself, observing and praying. I was solely oriented towards the goal of my freedom, willing to do anything for it. This forum with those who have studied such a state intellectually and academically, and engaged in a supermarket of practices is all new to me, kind of a fascinating subculture. But also sometimes with a sense of entitlement and egotism to it that I find bizarre-- understandable, but bizarre nonetheless, that some of those who began as idealistic seekers have been transformed into mere collectors of spiritual trivia, bent on tearing down and finding the flaws in everything, instead of breaking through these reflections of bitterness and fear, and just going for it again. That is what I meant to express, not that any of us are idiots. Thanks
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ wrote: BTW do you believe that the rapture of Christianity is a fantasy? Same thing for me so far about enlightenment. But perhaps someone will hover in the air someday and I can happily amend my opinion. I doubt that very much Curtis. There are people on this forum that would and do renounce the reality of enlightenment, no matter what is presented to them. Why? Because all enlightenment is, is a radical departure from how we see ourselves in terms of our relationship with our universe; with no longer any stories or concepts filtering our immediate experience. That is a very threatening reality to many, despite in most cases their former years being supposedly committed to the dissolution of such stories and filters. As I like to say of such peoples' thinking, unbounded awareness is great, but enough is enough. Curtis, I think framing an analogy for this phenomenon may be useful. People don't see that Jim deomonstrates any of the qualities he professes to have in abundance-- e.g., perfect intellignece perfect knowingness on and on -- and he blames this on the shortcomings of others. Even painting them as threatened and apparently shallow and insincere. It would be difficult, I think, for a novelist to make this stuff up. Life can be stranger than fiction. Still, tut there must be some apt analogy for this -- to immortalize the phenomenon. Yes, I am completely lacking in perfect intellignence. You though have apparently perfected it! I am also as you say incapable of deomonstrateing it! Don't you see what an utter fool you appear as when you try this stuff?? Simply a delusional fool.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, I am completely lacking in perfect intellignence. You though have apparently perfected it! I am also as you say incapable of deomonstrateing it! Don't you see what an utter fool you appear as when you try this stuff?? Simply a delusional fool. And in time, you will realize this to be your Self.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yes, I am completely lacking in perfect intellignence. You though have apparently perfected it! I am also as you say incapable of deomonstrateing it! Don't you see what an utter fool you appear as when you try this stuff?? Simply a delusional fool. And in time, you will realize this to be your Self. Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yes, I am completely lacking in perfect intellignence. You though have apparently perfected it! I am also as you say incapable of deomonstrateing it! Don't you see what an utter fool you appear as when you try this stuff?? Simply a delusional fool. And in time, you will realize this to be your Self. Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. I think you have revealed quite a bit of foolishness and hypocrisy tonight. Bravo! And in time, you will also realize this to be your Self.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Yes, I am completely lacking in perfect intellignence. You though have apparently perfected it! I am also as you say incapable of deomonstrateing it! Don't you see what an utter fool you appear as when you try this stuff?? Simply a delusional fool. And in time, you will realize this to be your Self. Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. I think you have revealed quite a bit of foolishness and hypocrisy tonight. Bravo! No, no I insist the rsponsibility for that is *all* yours! And in time, you will also realize this to be your Self. Whereas you have trumped me, I am afraid, for it *already* all you.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! You remember how that worked, don't you? I had forgotten, I admit, but FFL has beautifully reminded me of how the separate self still thoroughly identifying with buddhi has only two near-automatic choices in any given moment: me-better-than-you or you-better-than-me. That everything-utterly-perfect-everything-the-same US we essentially take for granted is anathema to the identified self; still sees it as Death and boredom and so on...
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! You remember how that worked, don't you? I had forgotten, I admit, but FFL has beautifully reminded me of how the separate self still thoroughly identifying with buddhi has only two near-automatic choices in any given moment: me-better-than-you or you-better-than-me. That everything-utterly-perfect-everything-the-same US we essentially take for granted is anathema to the identified self; still sees it as Death and boredom and so on... Yes, scared to death of it. I know-- its weird and awful at the same time. Such a horrible blasphemy upon such a person's inner nature. Truly a black spot on the soul. I cannot concieve of the blindness that creates this condition. I am not saying I was immune from this me-better-than-you or you- better-than-me condition, for it is automatic, left over from our animal lives probably. But to also apply it to spiritual pursuit? Oh my God, just *ask* outright for a few more turns on the wheel, why don'cha???
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! and I am sorry, but that's just f*ckin' HI-larious!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! You remember how that worked, don't you? I had forgotten, I admit, but FFL has beautifully reminded me of how the separate self still thoroughly identifying with buddhi has only two near-automatic choices in any given moment: me-better-than-you or you-better-than-me. That everything-utterly-perfect-everything-the-same US we essentially take for granted is anathema to the identified self; still sees it as Death and boredom and so on... Yes, scared to death of it. I know-- its weird and awful at the same time. Such a horrible blasphemy upon such a person's inner nature. Truly a black spot on the soul. I cannot concieve of the blindness that creates this condition. I am not saying I was immune from this me-better-than-you or you- better-than-me condition, for it is automatic, left over from our animal lives probably. But to also apply it to spiritual pursuit? Oh my God, just *ask* outright for a few more turns on the wheel, why don'cha??? *lol* Well, I just see it as what discrimination DOES -- it is always deciding which alternative is better. That's its job. It applies itself to everything. And when the unrecognized Self identifies with it and is obscured by it, there is no appreciation of the underlying perfect-USness everywhere, and so it creates nothing but misery. In fact it thrives on it, fights for it, as it feels it would have no reason to live if everything really IS perfect. The old great servant, lousy master routine. Gotta love it! :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! and I am sorry, but that's just f*ckin' HI-larious!! True that. But I kid you not; these guys have as much as said so, many times. It would be tragic if it weren't so funny, or vice versa :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! and I am sorry, but that's just f*ckin' HI-larious!! True that. But I kid you not; these guys have as much as said so, many times. It would be tragic if it weren't so funny, or vice versa :-) I know, I know-- but just to see it so plainly in writing cracked me up.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! J: and I am sorry, but that's just f*ckin' HI-larious!! True that. But I kid you not; these guys have as much as said so, many times. It would be tragic if it weren't so funny, or vice versa :-) You watch; right now those Buddhis are interpreting *even this* conversation as elitist, special, attention-grabbing, unconvincingly mood-makey, etc. etc. etc. They *have to* or *they will Die* .. and identified-Buddhi is not at all psyched about the prospect of being dethroned, not until it actually comprehends the unceasing misery of identification with aversion-desire/spacetime. Said it before, I'll say it again: Life is wasted on the so-called Living :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
Nice story. -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! J: and I am sorry, but that's just f*ckin' HI-larious!! True that. But I kid you not; these guys have as much as said so, many times. It would be tragic if it weren't so funny, or vice versa :-) You watch; right now those Buddhis are interpreting *even this* conversation as elitist, special, attention-grabbing, unconvincingly mood-makey, etc. etc. etc. They *have to* or *they will Die* .. and identified-Buddhi is not at all psyched about the prospect of being dethroned, not until it actually comprehends the unceasing misery of identification with aversion-desire/spacetime. Said it before, I'll say it again: Life is wasted on the so-called Living :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: Don't try to lay your moodmaking crap on me buddy. I am not condemning you, or me, if you want to see it that way- just calling you on your BS and your foolishness, your hypocrisy. Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! You remember how that worked, don't you? I had forgotten, I admit, but FFL has beautifully reminded me of how the separate self still thoroughly identifying with buddhi has only two near-automatic choices in any given moment: me-better-than-you or you-better-than-me. That everything-utterly-perfect-everything-the-same US we essentially take for granted is anathema to the identified self; still sees it as Death and boredom and so on... Yes, scared to death of it. I know-- its weird and awful at the same time. Such a horrible blasphemy upon such a person's inner nature. Truly a black spot on the soul. I cannot concieve of the blindness that creates this condition. I am not saying I was immune from this me-better-than-you or you- better-than-me condition, for it is automatic, left over from our animal lives probably. But to also apply it to spiritual pursuit? Oh my God, just *ask* outright for a few more turns on the wheel, why don'cha??? *lol* Well, I just see it as what discrimination DOES -- it is always deciding which alternative is better. That's its job. It applies itself to everything. And when the unrecognized Self identifies with it and is obscured by it, there is no appreciation of the underlying perfect-USness everywhere, and so it creates nothing but misery. In fact it thrives on it, fights for it, as it feels it would have no reason to live if everything really IS perfect. The old great servant, lousy master routine. Gotta love it! :-) Now, THAT makes sense! I remember the terrific battles that would rage within me as I approached my enlightenment; the revealing of my Self-- especially when I would practice TM- Transcendental Meditation- *lol* the Buddhi was being forced to surrender to Atman-- Man, did that take a lot of stepping out into nothingness; deliberately, and with intense observation, faith and calculation and courage, until I earned nothing but effortlessness.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rory Goff rorygoff@ wrote: Ahh, but you see, Jim, he *is* condemning *you* -- trying desperately to find and prove flaws in you so he won't have to look up to you as a role model, which is what he thinks you want! J: and I am sorry, but that's just f*ckin' HI-larious!! True that. But I kid you not; these guys have as much as said so, many times. It would be tragic if it weren't so funny, or vice versa :-) You watch; right now those Buddhis are interpreting *even this* conversation as elitist, special, attention-grabbing, unconvincingly mood-makey, etc. etc. etc. They *have to* or *they will Die* .. and identified-Buddhi is not at all psyched about the prospect of being dethroned, not until it actually comprehends the unceasing misery of identification with aversion-desire/spacetime. Said it before, I'll say it again: Life is wasted on the so-called Living :-) lol! I shouldn't laugh, but I am not laughing at the Buddhis, I love them, but just the ridiculousness of the situation, the topsy-turvy world as it appears to the Buddhis is so laughably sad/funny! That they protect such a meager little amount, thinking it so valuable! And then turn on conversations like this to protect themselves! As Nabby says, I think they need a checking! lol!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nice story. lol! my stomach hurts!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: Nice story. lol! my stomach hurts!!! RUN!!! FFL has been hijacked by the Goal itself!!! RUN!!! LOL!!!Enlightenment is here for all who want it!!!RUUN!!!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Jim announces new role for himself.
I've never understood the hostilities expressed on this board by some of its members in response to simple topics of personal experiences. I really enjoy reading Jim and Rory's ( and others') enlightened explanations and don't take them as attacks on others' states of consciousness at all, although I probably comprehend only half of their contents, and that is only on an intellectual basis. But I find them enriching or intriguing nonetheless and along with some of the other regular posters, they are a large reason I log onto FL almost daily. This board would be boring without them. As a comparison, are there other forums to recommend with people sharing their enlightened experiences? I'd like to surf those since besides FL, my only participation to these experiences has mainly been passive, from books, tapes, speakers or courses long ago. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, jim_flanegin jflanegi@ wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote: Nice story. lol! my stomach hurts!!! RUN!!! FFL has been hijacked by the Goal itself!!! RUN!!! LOL!!!Enlightenment is here for all who want it!!!RUUN!!!
