[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rudra_joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream, but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I had brought the matter up. I wasn't looking for a confession; since this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. It's not often that I have dreams about him. I may have to wait several months or even another year before he shows up in my dream. Peace, Marc In dreams since it is all a reflection of your mind, you were Maharishi and you were your regrets. You also felt the need to know the truth over enlightenment even, whatever that signifys to you. Thanks RJ, actually, I seem to connect to Maharishi via dreams since it wasn't possible to work with him in person. I knew my calling wasn't to become a TM teacher or Governor. I'm glad the search by message number was brought back. It's murder trying to navigate any of the Yahoo! Groups without this feature. Peace, Marc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 2:25 PM, medwards520 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Rick, About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream, but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I had brought the matter up. Ask that kind of question in the waking state in Vlodrop and you'll find yourself booted out of there pretty quick. I wasn't looking for a confession; since this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. Do you think he could have granted it? Yes, if he felt that I was ready. The point that I was trying to make is that some seekers tune in to their master(s) via dreams. Peace, Marc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Again, an instance of how truly weaselly you are. Does this set you straight? Your display of pique is surprising. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So you do not equate the word suspect with your remarks above that you view with caution about the illusion created? You have a remarkably weaselly way with words -- no wonder MMY and TM administrators refuse to talk to you. Either you really don't understand the content of my postings or you are just out to misrepresent me. Based on your recent responses to me on this newsgroup and TMNEWS I begin to suspect the latter. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no wonder MMY and TM administrators refuse to talk to you. It is common knowledge that I offered to enter into an exchange with MMY about his biography. However, his response to that letter is not. As for your assertion that TM administrators refuse to talk to me... First I heard of it!! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 27, 2005, at 1:01 PM, anonymousff wrote: I also have had similar experiences regarding the desire to cry that dissolves, especially when I have good strong experiences after my Sidha/TM practice. this also brings me to experience a desire to nullify the whole existence and be in a cave mode as you described below. It dose looks like a loop experience that I always thought as my own unstressing. You see more to it and it rings as truth, I'm not sure I fully understand the connections you make to lokas (what is it?) or more important what one needs to learn from it and how not to be stuck in ones own movie that repeats itself. ( I practice TM and Sidhis many years but didn't learn the philosophy behind it or behind the experiences, everything in TMO seems to be just unstressing... ;0 ) I had this on my office computer; sorry for the delay: This illusory sundering of the continuum of plenitude that is the single nature of all entities is a function of the delusory valuation-absolutization of thought. This delusory valuation or absolutizationwhich is inherent to avidya or marigpais the result of an activity of the organism that endows the contents of thought with illusory value and illusory truth and importance: a vibratory activity that seems to emanate from, or to be concentrated in, the center of the chest at the level of the heart, charges our thoughts with apparent value, truth and importance, even though in themselves these have neither value nor nonvalue, neither truth nor nontruth, neither importance nor nonimportance. Later on we will see that the inner Tantras, and in particular the Atiyoga, divides thoughts into three main types: coarse or discursive, subtle or intuitive, and super-subtle. Our feeling of lack results from the delusory valuation or absolutization of the super-subtle thought-structure known as the threefold projection, which consists in the conception that there is an experience (or action, etc.), an experiencer (or agent, etc.) and something experienced (or acted on, etc.), and which involves a directional structuring of experience. When the threefold projection is delusorily valued / absolutized, the illusory, delusive subject-object dichotomy arises, veiling the indivisibility of the Base or zhi as the latter seems to suffer a cleavage and therefore totality seems to be disrupted, and thus giving rise to the subjects feeling of lack-of-completeness, which is the core of duhkhathat is, of the First Noble Truth. In fact, once there arises the illusory mental subject that experiences itself as intrinsically separate from the rest of the continuum that the single nature of all entities is, that subject experiences the lack of the plentitude and completeness that characterizes this continuum. Though the teachings distinguish between the mind (Skt., chitta; Tib., sem), which is defined as consciousness or awareness of a form, and a series of mental factors or mental events (Skt., chaitasika; Tib., semjung) involved in the cognition of that form, both are indivisible aspects of the cognitive apparatus of deluded beings. In regard to the former, the Abhidharmakosha declares, consciousness is a selecting awareness, and also, perception (involves) a process of singling out. This refers to the occurrences that take place immediately after consciousness comes to experience itself as separate from the rest of the continuum that the single nature of all entities is: upon facing the continuum of what appears as object, another apparent split takes place in our experience, whereby the continuum of what appears as object is divided into figure and ground. Our attention circumscribes itself to one segment of the sensory field that we find interesting among those that conserve their configuration and that we are used to associate with one of our concepts, singling it out as figure and taking it as object, and leaves the rest of the field sunk in a penumbra of consciousness, so that it becomes background. It is at this stage that the mental factor or mental event called recognition enters into play, causing us to understand the segment that was singled out in terms of the corresponding concept. (The tendency to single out, within the ever-changing totality of sense-data, segments of this totality that maintain a certain continuity of pattern, is the function of a pre-conceptual interest, which is the precondition for the subsequent application of the concepts that will take part in the recognition of objects. Hence, it is clear that perception is an active process driven by impulses and concepts in our own psyche rather than consisting in the passive reception of data [as both Aristotle and Lenin, among other Western thinkers, wrongly believed].) Though the continuum of what appears as object was split by our own mental functions, we are under the illusion that this split is inherent to a given reality that we take to be self-existent and objective, and thus we think that the figure
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
I can't remember where I heard this about MMY sleeping at the foot of Guru Dev's bed -- maybe Paul Mason's book? On-line text copy of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi: The Biography of the Man Who Gave Transcendental Meditation to the World currently viewable at http://www.paulmason.info/themaharishi/mmych02.htm He came to the ashram as a youth bubbling over with mirth, full of energy and joy of living. He became so devoted to his master in everything ... At night he lay down outside Guru Dev's door.17 [Quote from Raj Varma, made in early 1968 and extracted from 'The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas' by Elsa Dragemark.] To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
At night he lay down outside Guru Dev's door.17 [Quote from Raj Varma, made in early 1968 and extracted from 'The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas' by Elsa Dragemark.] For anyone who has visited India, it is a very common sight to see people lie on the floor. But anyway, I have come to view MMY's uncle 'Dr' Raj Varma's remarks with some caution since observing that the major part of his 1980 book 'Strange Facts About a Great Saint' was derived from a direct translation of Rameshwar Tiwari's 1965 Hindi biography of Guru Dev and parts of a 1950 compilation of Guru Dev quotations. This creates the illusion to the casual reader that he has contributed a fresh biography. Seemingly his biographical notes, contained in Elsa Dragemark's book, also stem from Rameshwar's precious biography. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope that some dictator or factory owner was going to mandate TM on his citizens/employees. He tried repeatedly to get this to happen and it always flopped. It is a rather unusual take on human psychology. Maybe he thought that if they had good experiences from TM, that in itself would motivate them to continue practicing. I think Bob's point makes a lot of sense here in that MMY didn't have enough experience/understanding of the Western mind to see that being ordered to do something can result in the exact opposite effect. -Peter To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, easyone200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss so far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them to. I Think I will file a suit or tell the local bible thumpers. ** You would have no legal standing, not being a local or state of michigan taxpayer. However, feel free to get the bible thumpers going, they've got to find a new thing once terri schiavo drools her last in a few hours. The fundie christians are already on this. They are outraged and shouting and waving their arms. Search the internet. However they don't have a legal leg to stand on. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope that some dictator or factory owner was going to mandate TM on his citizens/employees. He tried repeatedly to get this to happen and it always flopped. It is a rather unusual take on human psychology. Maybe he thought that if they had good experiences from TM, that in itself would motivate them to continue practicing. My history with TM is that I'd start and stop a lot because I'd become so accustomed to the good experiences that they'd no longer be perceived as good experiences, and I'd get bored with it. Starting and stopping created the contrast needed to keep TM interesting for me. Alex To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
and I'd get bored with it. Startingand stopping created the contrast needed to keep TM interesting forme.Alex---Ditto, except when they were boring experiences.To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
I have not had any luck obtaining a first edition of Tiwari's biography, which I would like to compare with subsequent editions to track any changes/revisions. A friend may have the original Hindi version, but hasn't been able to find it. He is moving in a week or two and promises to dig deeper as he packs things up. L B S It would be great to have a complete edition of 'Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' again. My edition lacks two pages of text and a photograph, but you are welcome to share it. Prem Pasricha's 'Whole Thing Real Thing' lacks a certain amount of the detail of the Hindi volume by Tiwari, although he made a very nice job anyway. However, Raj Varma keeps all the detail which is great. It would be nice to see a new translation of Guru Dev's biography 'Shri Jyotishpeethaddharaka' with perhaps the inclusion of other material that has come to light from Raj Varma, Swami Rama, Dr. Radhakrishnan, Professor Schillp and any others. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
In a message dated 3/26/05 9:49:01 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I believe fundie Christians are already loosing face nationwide, and it will be a fast downward slide. I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath. Oh, please do! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Hi Anon: On Mar 27, 2005, at 1:01 PM, anonymousff wrote: Would you elaborate on that, what samsara means here and how would it be created thru that process/experience? Samsara is a 'pattern of suffering'. These are kept going by the kleshas you know from the Patanjali sutras (but you will find them in many systems). The basic pattern is to push away experiences we don't like and grasping the ones we do. This sense of struggle is what keeps samsara going. The process of forgetting our own innate spaciousness is the same process that allows dualism/ignorance to prevail. The only way out is to remain in closed eyed transcendence or get used to the non-dual state. There are different traditions that do this. It dose looks like a loop experience that I always thought as my own unstressing. I call them loops too. It's a good experiential word for it. You see more to it and it rings as truth, I'm not sure I fully understand the connections you make to lokas (what is it?) The different types of conditioned thought (thought still caught up in klesha-driven loops) exist as subtle and super-subtle thoughts which tend to aggregate in specific groupings, or lokas. If you experience them directly, they seem like other dimensions--put they are woven by subtle dualistic thoughts. If you can learn to let them arise naturally, you can learn what thought-patterns are conditioning you. Then you dissolve them. The movies lose their energy source. You gain an easier ability to reside in the non-dual state--because you've cut the very root of dualism. This is a very generic presentation. Specific will vary by tradition. -Vaj To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At night he lay down outside Guru Dev's door.17 [Quote from Raj Varma, made in early 1968 and extracted from 'The Way to Maharishi's Himalayas' by Elsa Dragemark.] For anyone who has visited India, it is a very common sight to see people lie on the floor. But anyway, I have come to view MMY's uncle 'Dr' Raj Varma's remarks with some caution since observing that the major part of his 1980 book 'Strange Facts About a Great Saint' was derived from a direct translation of Rameshwar Tiwari's 1965 Hindi biography of Guru Dev and parts of a 1950 compilation of Guru Dev quotations. This creates the illusion to the casual reader that he has contributed a fresh biography. Seemingly his biographical notes, contained in Elsa Dragemark's book, also stem from Rameshwar's precious biography. *** You describe Rameshwar's biography as precious, which implies that you consider it to be factual and authoritative, yet somehow when material from that book appears in Strange facts about a great saint it somehows becomes suspect? This is nonsense. It may be fair to accuse Varma of plagiarism (which is a commonplace in the book world -- among many others, famous historian Stephen Ambrose plagiarized considerably http://slate.msn.com/id/2072336/ ), but the underlying facts whether attributed properly in an academic way or not remain uncontested. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You describe Rameshwar's biography as precious, which implies that you consider it to be factual and authoritative, yet somehow when material from that book appears in Strange facts about a great saint it somehows becomes suspect? This is nonsense. or not remain uncontested. You appear confused. I have nowhere stated or implied that the contents of either Tilwari Rameshwar's biography or Raj Varma's creation is suspect. Oh, really? In message 45988, you say: But anyway, I have come to view MMY's uncle 'Dr' Raj Varma's remarks with some caution since observing that the major part of his 1980 book 'Strange Facts About a Great Saint' was derived from a direct translation of Rameshwar Tiwari's 1965 Hindi biography of Guru Dev and parts of a 1950 compilation of Guru Dev quotations. This creates the illusion to the casual reader that he has contributed a fresh biography. Seemingly his biographical notes, contained in Elsa Dragemark's book, also stem from Rameshwar's precious biography. So you do not equate the word suspect with your remarks above that you view with caution about the illusion created? You have a remarkably weaselly way with words -- no wonder MMY and TM administrators refuse to talk to you. Remember it was you misquoted my reference to Raj Varma's comments, comments that were contained not in his book but in Elsa Dragemark's and therefore my own. I did not claim to be quoting your book -- I merely suggested that my recollection that MMY slept at the foot of Guru Dev's bed came from a reading of your book, and in fact it does say in your book that MMY did sleep on the floor near Guru Dev, the only difference being that MMY slept just outside his door, and not at the foot of the bed as I misrembered it. Again, an instance of how truly weaselly you are. Does this set you straight? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
The response went off-line I post the missing posting I asked you to present evidence that there was more than one person acting as Shankaracharya (whether he claims the title to two maths or not -- disputed claims, one might add) who was opposed to Maharishi. I quote SwaroopanandJi because he is a direct disciple of Guru Dev and he is also Shankaracharya. If there were another Shankaracharya who was also a direct disciple of Guru Dev I would quote him also. So the other Shankaracharyas are chopped liver? The fact that Swaroop had face time with Guru Dev doesn't mean anything. Guru Dev's master had many disciples, but we only hear about Guru Dev because good disciples are few and far between. In other traditions, Judas was a disciple, too, but just not a very good one. I would suggest the litmus test for whether Swaroopanand is a legitimate Shankaracharya would be if he supports Maharishi's campaign to enlighten the world -- since he obviously does not, then darkness has placed him in a seat that his level of consciousness does not qualify him for. Without offering a shred of evidence, you suggest that Swaroopanand's motive for criticising his guru-bhaiee 'Mahesh Yogi' is jealousy? I was hoping for a better profile of the situation. That's very funny -- I'm supposed to supply evidence for a very common human motivation? MMY is world famous, Swaroopananda has spent years in courts battling for the little recognition he has -- I think that jealousy is an obvious possibility, but whether it is jealousy or mere malice, Swaroopananda is no friend of humanity. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
So the other Shankaracharyas are chopped liver? The fact that Swaroop had face time with Guru Dev doesn't mean anything. Guru Dev's master had many disciples, but we only hear about Guru Dev because good disciples are few and far between. In other traditions, Judas was a disciple, too, but just not a very good one. I would suggest the litmus test for whether Swaroopanand is a legitimate Shankaracharya would be if he supports Maharishi's campaign to enlighten the world -- since he obviously does not, then darkness has placed him in a seat that his level of consciousness does not qualify him for. Swaroopanand Ji was not just another devotee, he was one of the inner circle of chelas. There are several very useful books available of Shantanand Ji, another of Gurudev's chelas, from the Study Society. But the test of a good disciple of Gurudev is not necessarilly that 'we' hear about them. And actually 'we' do not hear about Guru Dev. That is why he has his own webpage on my site http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 12:43 AM, Kenny H wrote: I thoroughly disagree with this statement though I have heard people say it for years now and have hear Maharishi imtimate it. However, when you sit up in front of people and wait until someone puts your deerskin down before you get seated. when everyone stands up when you come in the room, and waits for you to sit down and then sit down, when they hang on your every word and you have words to direct every aspect of a person's life, when you give people blessings to get married or advise against it, when you have men and women leading monkish lives and following your every advice, when you have a university in your own name and the basis of the universisty is development of consciousness, when people follow rigorous diets and follow what appear to be extreme suggestions for improving healtn and the many others things I have left out, it is pretty hard to claim non-Guruhood. The nature of the Guru-Student relationship is more personal than any of the above. And if we are talking of purity of the Vedic tradition I doubt he would avoid the formal rite for this relationship (of student and Guru) and the giving of a guru-mantra (a mantra which helps you not only keep contact, but allows you to unite your consciousness to the teachers) which is the vehicle for lineal transmission. You are right, he does use many of the props and a lot of the pretense. We're talking about McDonald's drive-thru style meditation here. It ain't 'the real thing' despite 'millions being served'. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 12:43 AM, Kenny H wrote: I thoroughly disagree with this statement though I have heard people say it for years now and have hear Maharishi imtimate it. However, when you sit up in front of people and wait until someone puts your deerskin down before you get seated. when everyone stands up when you come in the room, and waits for you to sit down and then sit down, when they hang on your every word and you have words to direct every aspect of a person's life, when you give people blessings to get married or advise against it, when you have men and women leading monkish lives and following your every advice, when you have a university in your own name and the basis of the universisty is development of consciousness, when people follow rigorous diets and follow what appear to be extreme suggestions for improving healtn and the many others things I have left out, it is pretty hard to claim non-Guruhood. The nature of the Guru-Student relationship is more personal than any of the above. And if we are talking of purity of the Vedic tradition I doubt he would avoid the formal rite for this relationship (of student and Guru) and the giving of a guru-mantra (a mantra which helps you not only keep contact, but allows you to unite your consciousness to the teachers) which is the vehicle for lineal transmission. You are right, he does use many of the props and a lot of the pretense. We're talking about McDonald's drive-thru style meditation here. It ain't 'the real thing' despite 'millions being served'. Perhaps it doesn't work for you. You can't claim to have the experience of others. -Peter To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/25/05 11:56 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until you know that: Maharishi slept on the floor at the foot of Guru Dev's bed; people do not follow rigorous diets, but in fact choose what they want to eat; development of consciousness does not require any devotion to a guru; the reporters at the White House stand up when the President enters the room; Maharishi does not attempt to direct every aspect of a person's life (but instead says do as you feel to do); advised only a few people like Larry Domash not to get married (because he would be able to devote more time and energy to the TM movement, a reasonable suggestion for a key employee); Ayurveda does not make extreme suggestions for improving health. The guru-disciple relationship is much more close than what anybody has with MMY. If you read about MMY's relationship with Guru Dev, then you understand what it truly implies: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/spiritual.html#dev No one can be a personal guru to the masses, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think he had a very close guru/diciple relationship with the inner circle. Bevan, Neil, Nand Kishore, Rindi, Tony Nader, and others. In fact, he said to a friend of mine, There comes a time when the guru decides to get personally involved in the life of the disciple. For a core group of people, that involvement has been going on for decades. As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an outer relationship with the guru. The outer relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated renegade TM teacher has with MMY. The inner relationship is the important one and that is profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the guru). -Peter To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:29 AM, Peter Sutphen wrote: Perhaps it doesn't work for you. You can't claim to have the experience of others. So you are saying you have witnessed MMY formally accepting sishyas? That's the point here, not that people do not or cannot derive some benefit from him or have a relationship with MMY--or for that matter believe he is their guru. People are free to believe whatever they want. But can you tell me, in an org so obsessed with alleged traditional purity that there is a formal acceptance of sishyas? I say there is none--at least that westerners will ever receive. Of course I am always open to changing this opinion if there is clear evidence to the contrary. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 12:43 AM, Kenny H wrote: I thoroughly disagree with this statement though I have heard people say it for years now and have hear Maharishi imtimate it. However, when you sit up in front of people and wait until someone puts your deerskin down before you get seated. when everyone stands up when you come in the room, and waits for you to sit down and then sit down, when they hang on your every word and you have words to direct every aspect of a person's life, when you give people blessings to get married or advise against it, when you have men and women leading monkish lives and following your every advice, when you have a university in your own name and the basis of the universisty is development of consciousness, when people follow rigorous diets and follow what appear to be extreme suggestions for improving healtn and the many others things I have left out, it is pretty hard to claim non-Guruhood. The nature of the Guru-Student relationship is more personal than any of the above. And if we are talking of purity of the Vedic tradition I doubt he would avoid the formal rite for this relationship (of student and Guru) and the giving of a guru-mantra (a mantra which helps you not only keep contact, but allows you to unite your consciousness to the teachers) which is the vehicle for lineal transmission. You are right, he does use many of the props and a lot of the pretense. We're talking about McDonald's drive-thru style meditation here. It ain't 'the real thing' despite 'millions being served'. Dream on pal. I guess you never got to do the yogic flying. It is realBIG TIME. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You are right, he does use many of the props and a lot of the pretense. We're talking about McDonald's drive-thru style meditation here. It ain't 'the real thing' despite 'millions being served'. Peter wrote: Perhaps it doesn't work for you. You can't claim to have the experience of others. -Peter Have to agree with Peter. I know of a number of Masters who have enlivened the Tradition within themselves working entirely or primarily from TM. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 6:32 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 1:09 AM, Rick Archer wrote: No one can be a personal guru to the masses, but you're kidding yourself if you don't think he had a very close guru/diciple relationship with the inner circle The guru-disciple relationship is a formal one and not merely indicated by proximity. Do you have any evidence that formal guru-sishya initiation took place? He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate ceremony. I don't know about formal definition of guruhood. I suppose that by some definitions, Maharishi was never a guru to anyone. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 6:39 AM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an outer relationship with the guru. The outer relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated renegade TM teacher has with MMY. The inner relationship is the important one and that is profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the guru). -Peter And someone physically distant from the guru may in reality be much closer than someone physically close. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate ceremony. Would you elaborate on that please? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Perhaps it doesn't work for you. You can't claim tohave the experience of others. -PeterIt's not that it works or that it doesn't work. It's the denigration of all past traditions in the simple phrase, "Spiritual Regeneration," or other (tmed) Maharishisms. It's not the purity of the teaching that is in question but the purity ofwisdom of the teaching. (Since through research I have come to love the TM mantras, as mantras taken from the Sri Vidya, and hence MMY's Mahalakshmi connection). But I think that we Americans are wiser now and have more Eastern knowledge than ever before. I mean, today many could hold down with Blavatsky and Crowley and other Western/Eastern pioneers. And better yet because many other traditions have their extensions in America now we can pick and choose and discern the truth for ourselves without interpreters any longer. And this is the main thing here. There's more information so lack of explanation for ones motivescould easily dismissed as crackpot. We've had wayward gurus galore so we can now easily suspect everyone's motives. The only truth is that one which has been distilled and served up fine as liquer. Other truths are merely grapes waiting to be mashed. Maharishi Mishmashed. And registered for Varma/Srivistava profit (I hate saying that but it's obvious as a broken toe). The truth is like gimel. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
As I get more involved with Punditji it's becomingclearer and clearer that there is an inner and anouter relationship with the guru. The outerrelationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tellabsolutely nothing of the inner relationship from theouter relationship of another. We know nothing of theinner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated"renegade" TM teacher has with MMY. The innerrelationship is the important one and that isprofoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(theguru).-Peter I don't know. I can't say, but doesn't one have the same relationship with any personal icon? What about rock groupies, is not their idol in an inner/outer relationship with great disparity? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate ceremony. OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? Brahmin sshmamin. Man you are a control freak. You probably want to start your own movement don't ya. It doesn't matter if the guru is a woman, sudra, or a fvcking fish jumped out of the ocean. The knowledge is spread, and people practice it according to the teaching. Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2 years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique. Yea, Maharishi is not a guru..right. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an outer relationship with the guru. The outer relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated renegade TM teacher has with MMY. The inner relationship is the important one and that is profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the guru). -Peter Nice to see it acknowledged in this forum that it is in fact possible to have such an inner relationship with MMY. But why limit it to only to TM-teachers? Allow me to quote the Man himself on the subject: Who is a disciple? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 7:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate ceremony. OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about an hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their heads and did other stuff. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
So Maharishi performed some type of official ceremony so a handful of people could be officially called disciples, big whoop. Is there a rulebook that describes a guru-disciple relationship? If so does it specifically void relationships that are absent this.some ceremony? Isn't the guru disciple relationship based on something more than a ceremony? I would imagine the entirety of purusha and mother divine would claim they have a direct guru-disciple relationship with Maharishi. I would imagine that the dedicated staff/faculty members at MUM would cliam a guru-disciple relationship. The same for the well-to-do who have lived in FF for many years now and offer money whenever money is needed. Maharishi may not descrbe these people as his disciples but I can't imagine that it is anything but. They look to him for guidance in every aspect of their lives, they imagine, based on the knowing me in your heart that M has described, his thoughts on every issue. And Maharishi is not lacking in advice and never has been, even if his advice is to be self-sufficient.Yet, even with this advice of his (self-sufficiency) he is never lacking in specific, though perhaps general, advice/guidance. Ken --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 7:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate ceremony. OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about an hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their heads and did other stuff. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 6:39 AM, Peter Sutphen at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I get more involved with Punditji it's becoming clearer and clearer that there is an inner and an outer relationship with the guru. The outer relationship means, essentially, nothing. You can tell absolutely nothing of the inner relationship from the outer relationship of another. We know nothing of the inner relationship Bevan, Tony, or the dedicated renegade TM teacher has with MMY. The inner relationship is the important one and that is profoundly personal and only known to you and YOU(the guru). -Peter And someone physically distant from the guru may in reality be much closer than someone physically close. Hi Rick, About two nights or so ago, I had a dream about Maharishi. During the dream, I decided to ask him a question about where the money has been going. It took tremedous effort to ask this question during the dream, but, I did get the question out. Maharishi seemed displeased that I had brought the matter up. I wasn't looking for a confession; since this is one of the main topics of discussion at FFL, I just wanted to know what was going on. After I had this dream, I thought to myself, I should have asked Maharishi for Enlightenment. It's not often that I have dreams about him. I may have to wait several months or even another year before he shows up in my dream. Peace, Marc To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 11:10 AM, Rick Archer wrote: He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about an hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their heads and did other stuff. Thanks for sharing that--that was beautiful to hear. I don't want to give people the impression that I am anti-TM, I just feel the movement has lost it's impetus as an evolutionary agent. Therefore I do not recommend people take initiation there unless they really feel some personal draw--and can afford it. I had a personal time of deep, deep devotion to MMY which culminated in what I can only call 'meeting Maharishi in consciousness'. The tension which had built up of deep unanswered questions was released, as was anything else I could gain from that movement. I was like I was set free. Answers I desired just presented themselves. Best, -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Paul Mason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So the other Shankaracharyas are chopped liver? The fact that Swaroop had face time with Guru Dev doesn't mean anything. Guru Dev's master had many disciples, but we only hear about Guru Dev because good disciples are few and far between. In other traditions, Judas was a disciple, too, but just not a very good one. I would suggest the litmus test for whether Swaroopanand is a legitimate Shankaracharya would be if he supports Maharishi's campaign to enlighten the world -- since he obviously does not, then darkness has placed him in a seat that his level of consciousness does not qualify him for. Swaroopanand Ji was not just another devotee, he was one of the inner circle of chelas. There are several very useful books available of Shantanand Ji, another of Gurudev's chelas, from the Study Society. But the test of a good disciple of Gurudev is not necessarilly that 'we' hear about them. And actually 'we' do not hear about Guru Dev. That is why he has his own webpage on my site http://www.paulmason.info/gurudev/gurudev.htm As a matter of fact, Guru Dev was so very well-known in India that the first President of India paid tribute to him. Swaroopanand is strictly power-hungry, claiming title to not one, but two seats of the Shankaracharya tradition, and seeking to unseat the current Kanchi seer, in order to magnify his power. But regardless of whether Swaroopananda is any good or not, the original post was about the fact that Vedic instruction was associated with a preceptor's fee, the Gurudakshina, which is easily verified with examples like Krishna's payment to his guru. Claiming that MMY is breaking with Vedic tradition by front-loading the preceptor's fee for Vedic instruction (which is far more than selling a mantra) is nonsense, and you have failed to acknowledge that. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings wrote: Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2 years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique. Why am I mad about this? Lol, Well, lets see Vaj. (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in which case I apologize and somebody set me straight). You seemed to be trying with all your might to show that Maharishi is not a true guru, and Guru Dev couldn't pick him out of a crowd if asked to do so. You also spend an awful lot of time trying to denounce him, and also TM as being no good. You also spent an awful lot of time trying to convince me that Buddha did not come from a Vedic tradition, and (on the other hand in your dichotomous argument forms)even though he did, he renounced it completely. Then you tell us that it is somehow of SUCH GREAT IMPORTANCE if Maharishi was a Brahmin caste or what or is qualified to be a teacher guru rishi sage . You hate TM and Maharishi. (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in which case I apologize and somebody set me straight). Therefore , anything that seems like success of TM and Maharishi over your own movement that you want to start and lord it over everyone... you are mad about. For example: TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets taught to criminal offenders in Missourri by a judge who does not meditate, but has seen the postive effects of it, and TM is funded strongly (10's of millions) in research by the NIH, and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique. Are you happy that this is the case? It ok, it makes a lot of people on this board mad too. (oops , I just set the cat among the pidgeonswho!) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
WOW ! This really goes to how out of touch and prejuduced you really are. No wonder you are always badmouthing TM. TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your mind has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed ! Secondly TM is taught in a Public school in a Chicago with great success, and in a public school in, I think Baltimore. There may be others. Those public school principles that have used it are very happy with it. I can't find the whole article , but last year TIME magazine had an article on meditation, and probably half the cases they talked about (incuding the Chicago public school) were about TM. http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101030804,00.html TM is also given by a non-maditating judge in Missourri to criminal offenders. He is VERY impressed with the results --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which public schools? Wasn't there a court case a while back in which TM was shown to have religious content and therefore could not be taught in *any* public schools? If that's changed, I don't think anyone else knows about it. Sal On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:12 PM, off_world_beings wrote: TM gets taught in some public schools in the US To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Wrong. TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have religious overtones. The 1977 court ruling, Malnak v. Yogi, dealt a serious blow to the movement. TM appealed to the New Jersey State Supreme Court claiming they were not teaching religion, but proven scientific techniques. The Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation program. In spite of vigorous protest against claims that TM is a religion, Bainbridge notes it is not mere coincidence that it is during this period that the organization took new initiatives that focused on supernormal powers. http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/tm.html And this: However, after 1975, TMs fortunes took another turn. The number of new people taking TM courses dropped significantly (Religious Fringe, p. 206). In response, the TM leadership announced an advanced program which purported to teach meditators to levitate and to vanish at will (Ibid.). Such outrageous claims tarnished the scientific image of TM which TM had strived to create and, as a result, the organization lost credibility (Ibid.). When a federal court ruled that TM was a religious practice, and the ruling was upheld in the U.S. Court of Appeals 3rd Dist. (Malnak v. Yogi), TM was then made subject to the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution (Religious Fringe, p. 207), not only denying TM the privilege of receiving federal funds, but preventing it from being taught in public schools, one of the key markets for TM (Ibid.). In addition to these setbacks, TM began to become criticized as actually being harmful, rather than beneficial, to some TM practitioners. In 1978, Psychology Today magazine reported that a substantial number of meditators developed anxiety, depression, physical and mental tension and other adverse effects (San Francisco Examiner, September 10, 1989, p. E3). In 1980, the West German governments Institute for Youth and Society produced a report calling TM a psychogroup and saying that the majority of people who went through TM experienced psychological or physical disorders (Edward Epstein, Politics and Transcendental Meditation, San Francisco Chronicle, December 29, 1995, p. A1) http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/87.htm I'd say that in referring to it as a 'psychogroup' they might have had you in mind, off-world. On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:35 PM, off_world_beings wrote: TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your mind has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed ! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years. The first one I know of was in Washington DC, and goes back before the 1995 DC WPA. (of course the redneck fundie christians will never let it get widespread in Public schools, but it is not illegal to teach TM in public schools, and it never will be) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wrong. TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have religious overtones. The 1977 court ruling, Malnak v. Yogi, dealt a serious blow to the movement. TM appealed to the New Jersey State Supreme Court claiming they were not teaching religion, but proven scientific techniques. The Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation program. In spite of vigorous protest against claims that TM is a religion, Bainbridge notes it is not mere coincidence that it is during this period that the organization took new initiatives that focused on supernormal powers. http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/tm.html And this: However, after 1975, TM's fortunes took another turn. The number of new people taking TM courses dropped significantly (Religious Fringe, p. 206). In response, the TM leadership announced an advanced program which purported to teach meditators to levitate and to vanish at will (Ibid.). Such outrageous claims tarnished the scientific image of TM which TM had strived to create and, as a result, the organization lost credibility (Ibid.). When a federal court ruled that TM was a religious practice, and the ruling was upheld in the U.S. Court of Appeals 3rd Dist. (Malnak v. Yogi), TM was then made subject to the establishment clause of the U.S. Constitution (Religious Fringe, p. 207), not only denying TM the privilege of receiving federal funds, but preventing it from being taught in public schools, one of the key markets for TM (Ibid.). In addition to these setbacks, TM began to become criticized as actually being harmful, rather than beneficial, to some TM practitioners. In 1978, Psychology Today magazine reported that a `substantial number' of meditators developed anxiety, depression, physical and mental tension and other adverse effects (San Francisco Examiner, September 10, 1989, p. E3). In 1980, the West German government's Institute for Youth and Society produced a report calling TM a `psychogroup' and saying that the majority of people who went through TM experienced psychological or physical disorders (Edward Epstein, Politics and Transcendental Meditation, San Francisco Chronicle, December 29, 1995, p. A1) http://www.pastornet.net.au/response/articles/87.htm I'd say that in referring to it as a 'psychogroup' they might have had you in mind, off-world. On Mar 26, 2005, at 5:35 PM, off_world_beings wrote: TM was NOT considered a religion by that court case, but your mind has turned it into its negative. TM won the case. Get informed ! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Comment below: --- off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 9:16 AM, off_world_beings wrote: Your just mad because TM gets taught in some public schools in the US, gets taught to offenders in Missourri, is funded in research by the NIH, and is soon going to be taught to the US army(I predict within 2 years), and has more ACTUAL EVIDENCE for its efficacy than probably any other technique. Why am I mad about this? Lol, Well, lets see Vaj. (Unless I am mixing you up with someone else, in which case I apologize and somebody set me straight). You seemed to be trying with all your might to show that Maharishi is not a true guru, and Guru Dev couldn't pick him out of a crowd if asked to do so. You also spend an awful lot of time trying to denounce him, and also TM as being no good. You also spent an awful lot of time trying to convince me that Buddha did not come from a Vedic tradition, and (on the other hand in your dichotomous argument forms)even though he did, he renounced it completely. Then you tell us that it is somehow of SUCH GREAT IMPORTANCE if Maharishi was a Brahmin caste or what or is qualified to be a teacher guru rishi sage . The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I agree upon something! Sure, MMY appears to do some pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's all. Any point value can open to the infinite. Caste status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no. I'm happy your techniques and tradition bear fruit for you. I can say some pretty strong things regarding MMY's crazy and at times offensive behavior, but I never can doubt his status as a great realizer of Brahman. Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very big boys! -Peter . __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
You seem to be the only one that knows that, as there are no articles on the Web that support that claim. Sal On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:26 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:19 PM, Sal Sunshine wrote: Wrong. TM lost that court case, because it was deemed to have religious overtones. And of course you are correct Sal. . Why are you spreading lies Vaj? This is very suspicious. TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Its $2.50 a day over 3 years. Few keep up with it for three years. --- off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What DOES matter is if they are charging 2400 USD a pop. That is criminal. No its not. You are making this up. Its $2.50 a day over 3 years. Which is less than you drink in caffe lattes and internet connection each day. What kind of seeker is not willing to give up cafe lattes and go back to dial up in order to evolve? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I agree upon something! Sure, MMY appears to do some pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's all. Any point value can open to the infinite. Caste status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no. I'm happy your techniques and tradition bear fruit for you. I can say some pretty strong things regarding MMY's crazy and at times offensive behavior, but I never can doubt his status as a great realizer of Brahman. Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very big boys! Was this addressed to me or off_world? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You seem to be the only one that knows that, as there are no articles on the Web that support that claim. Sal Your mind is tuned to not find it. You'll need to cure yourself of that oneday (not a judgement, just a fact). Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!) http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter school in Michigan (and one in Baltimore). Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a difference in their daily lives. We have found that children who practice T.M. for at least three months period duration have better self-esteem, show higher affect, positive affect, show decreased negative feelings about themselves and are more adaptable in how they think about problems and situations, said Dr. Rita Benn, Ph.D. the University of Michigan researcher . On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:26 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Wrong. It was overturned, and TM is now being taught in Public Schools in the US, and has been for at least 10 years. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Why are you spreading lies Vaj? I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I would be lying if I told you any different. Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number one, I don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number two, eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church and state. . No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will never support an action against such a well scientifically documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving up your religion in any way. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 7:54 AM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:31 AM, Rick Archer wrote: He did initiate some westerners into Brahmacharya with an elaborate ceremony. OK, here's a fine point: did he personally initiate them or did he have a Brahmin perform the rite? Who performed the upanayama ceremony? He did it. I don't know if was an upanayama ceremony. It lasted about an hour and was done privately for each man. He laid his hands on their heads and did other stuff. * MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Hi Peter: On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:32 PM, Peter Sutphen wrote: The age of enlightenment must be here, Off_world and I agree upon something! Sure, MMY appears to do some pretty whacky things, but to dismiss his enlightened status is a mistake and to dismiss his techniques means they simply did not bear fruit for you, that's all. How would you know if they bore fruit for another or not unless you asked them (or possessed omniscience)? To quote Dr. Pete: You can't claim to have the experience of others. How, therefore, can you assume to know mine? You know what happens when we assume? Caste status, tradition means nothing. That's all crap that the mind chews on and judges..yes...no...yes...no. Well MMY shouldn't then claim to be adhering to the Dharma shastras as the 'lay of the land' and that we all have our natural place in the hierarchy of creation. He should then be denouncing them as antithetical to evolution of sentience. I don't honestly ever expect this to happen. Guru Dev, MMY, Punditji. These are three very big boys! Indeed! Two billionaires and one infinitely rich. -V. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Why are you spreading lies Vaj? I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I would be lying if I told you any different. Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number one, I don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number two, eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church and state. . No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will never support an action against such a well scientifically documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving up your religion in any way. It can be taught but not with public funds. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:53 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Your mind is tuned to not find it. My mind might be, but my search engine isn't, and it didn't find anything to support your claim either. And it won't, not until Malnak v Yogi is overturned. I wouldn't hold my breath on thiat one. Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!) http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter school in Michigan (and one in Baltimore)>. Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a difference in their daily lives. The first is a private school, the second a charter school, both of which are very different from public schools and both of which allow religious study. x-tad-biggerthe charter school does not have to follow the same rules/regs (with the exception of standardized testing) as a public school does. Charter Schools are basically private/independent public schools usually operated by a group of concerned parents, or groups of concerned individuals. Charter schools receive their funding from the school district/government and because of this, there can only be a maximum of 35 hours of religious study (the basics) taught to kids per year. http://www.poconocommuter.com/bboard/display_message.asp?mid=850/x-tad-bigger
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:05 PM, Bob Brigante wrote: MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? Bob, you ask an interesting question! It may be possible that MMY realized he was violating Dharma Shastra (read: Natural Law) and stopped his folly? * It was not folly on MMY's part, it was just a way of dealing with children who insisted, wrongly as it turns out, that they were qualified to be Brahmacharis. This reminds me of the anecdote in Nancy Cooke de Herrera's book Beyond Gurus: a guy walking around MMY's ashram one day in India came upon MMY and Tat Wala Baba sitting holding hands on the path. The guy asked if he could join them in meditation and also hold hands -- TWB and MMY demurred, but the guy insisted, so they said OK...next thing the guy knew, it was dark and TWB and MMY were long gone -- the guy had immediately lost consciousness when he held hands with them. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, easyone200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Why are you spreading lies Vaj? I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I would be lying if I told you any different. Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number one, I don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number two, eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church and state. . No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will never support an action against such a well scientifically documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving up your religion in any way. It can be taught but not with public funds. ** TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss so far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them to. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 26, 2005, at 8:40 PM, Bob Brigante wrote: It was not folly on MMY's part, it was just a way of dealing with children who insisted, wrongly as it turns out, that they were qualified to be Brahmacharis. Interesting if true. This reminds me of the anecdote in Nancy Cooke de Herrera's book Beyond Gurus: a guy walking around MMY's ashram one day in India came upon MMY and Tat Wala Baba sitting holding hands on the path. The guy asked if he could join them in meditation and also hold hands -- TWB and MMY demurred, but the guy insisted, so they said OK...next thing the guy knew, it was dark and TWB and MMY were long gone -- the guy had immediately lost consciousness when he held hands with them. Interesting. TWB was a siddha, no wonder! His successor has had some interesting things to say about the perversion of Patanjali by MMY. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . The Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation program. I always thought the Jim Jones event in Guiana was a nail in the coffin of the TM movement. People became very wary of cults and cultish figures. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 7:05 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? Right. And since he wasn't overly successful himself, maybe he felt a tad unqualified to be making brahmacharis. But no sense in rehashing that discussion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No? These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off the radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more common, the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose their clout and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Sal Are you blind? TM is taught in public schools in the US right now. It is legal to do so. What does that tell you about the law? It is possible that the fundie christians will never let it be widespread (but will try as many toxic pharmaceuticals on their addh children as possible.and are REALLY screwing them up.), but that seems unlikely , especially in light of the fact that a judge in Missouri is sentancing people to TM) Two things that make people here hopping mad: 1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to TM. 2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public schools with great success. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Sal Sunshine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 6:53 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Your mind is tuned to not find it. My mind might be, but my search engine isn't, and it didn't find anything to support your claim either. And it won't, not until Malnak v Yogi is overturned. I wouldn't hold my breath on thiat one. Ever heard of CBS? (I guess no-one has since you say I am the only one who knows that TM is LEGAL to teach in Public Schools. OR PERHAPS YOU SHOULD STOP RELYING ON INTERNET BLOGS FOR YOUR NEWS !!!) http://cbs2chicago.com/health/local_story_071005948.html Three schools nationwide already offer the relaxation technique to students, including a private school in Iowa and a public charter school in Michigan (and one in Baltimore). Students at the Nataki Talibah Schoolhouse in Detroit are part of a University of Michigan study to see if meditation really makes a difference in their daily lives. The first is a private school, the second a charter school, both of which are very different from public schools and both of which allow religious study. the charter school does not have to follow the same rules/regs (with the exception of standardized testing) as a public school does. Charter Schools are basically private/independent public schools usually operated by a group of concerned parents, or groups of concerned individuals. Charter schools receive their funding from the school district/government and because of this, there can only be a maximum of 35 hours of religious study (the basics) taught to kids per year. http://www.poconocommuter.com/bboard/display_message.asp?mid=850 To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Anyone remember when the NJ court case and ruling actually took place? In late 79-early 80, I wrote a grant to the Bd of Ed of the City of NY, at the request of a middle school principal in the South Bronx, and ended up getting money and initiating nearly the entire faculty of this bombed out school in the middle of what had to be the worst neighborhood in the five boroughs. The principal was so impressed after the first couple of batches of teachers learned, that he pulled money earmarked for the school psychologist so the rest of the faculty could learn. After the 3 days of checking, the 10 day follow up I never saw any of those people again. Ken --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, easyone200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 26, 2005, at 7:33 PM, off_world_beings wrote: Why are you spreading lies Vaj? I'm not. What is present as TM (etc.) is Neo-Vedic Hinduism. I would be lying if I told you any different. Why did you so easily spread the lie that TM is illegal to be taught in public schools? It has been taught in public schools for over a decade. It is legal, and it always will be legal (of course the fundie redneck christians will never let it be widespread.) TM is taught in public schools and has been for over 10 years. It is legal to teach TM in public schools and always will be. While I think it is a good idea to teach meditation, I'm not sure teaching TM will always be around in our school systems. Number one, I don't have the siddhi of viewing time at the quantum level. Number two, eventually people will realize that this is a violation of church and state. . No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. Which almost ALL other religions require. This is US law and has been verified at the supreme court level. There is no way that this law will change unless Bush succeeds in his fundie crusade to become the saviour of us all. Which he won't. Bush has already crossed the line with his faith based initiatives, the courts will never support an action against such a well scientifically documented technique as TM which does not require belief, or giving up your religion in any way. It can be taught but not with public funds. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
you LIKE starting arguments, don't you!! kh --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 7:05 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * MMY did this for a handful of westerners who kept bugging him that they wanted to be celibate monk-types, but after they all were unsuccessful in this line of work, MMY quit doing it, right? Right. And since he wasn't overly successful himself, maybe he felt a tad unqualified to be making brahmacharis. But no sense in rehashing that discussion. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No? These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off the radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more common, the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose their clout and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools. I believe fundie Christians are already loosing face nationwide, and it will be a fast downward slide. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 9:38 PM, off_world_beings at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No? These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off the radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more common, the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose their clout and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools. I believe fundie Christians are already loosing face nationwide, and it will be a fast downward slide. I hope you're right, but I won't hold my breath. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 9:36 PM, Kenny H at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: you LIKE starting arguments, don't you!! kh Who me? Yeah, gotta stir the pot every now and then. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, easyone200 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: TM is being taught with public funds at the charter schools in Mich and MD (and it ain't cheap, $625/yr per student -- see http://geocities.com/bbrigante/updates.html#public ) -- but if somebody with legal standing were to file a lawsuit protesting the use of public funds for TM in these schools, it's very unlikely the TMO would prevail in court. The reason why nobody is making a fuss so far is that these are charter schools, where parents choose to send their kids, so nobody's kids have to be there unless they want them to. I Think I will file a suit or tell the local bible thumpers. ** You would have no legal standing, not being a local or state of michigan taxpayer. However, feel free to get the bible thumpers going, they've got to find a new thing once terri schiavo drools her last in a few hours. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 7:19 PM, Vaj at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No it is not. It does not require any belief, or giving up other religions. It requires you to believe the mantra will work--a mantra from the Hindu tantras. It requires you to hear a listing of a common lineage in Hinduism. It requires you to be present at a prana-prasthitha rite. No? These TM-in-school programs have only survived because they are off the radar for most Christians, as is TM. If they began to become more common, the fundies would go ballistic. Perhaps someday they will lose their clout and TM or its equivalent will be taught in the schools. The two contract schools (in Baltimore and Detriot) where TM is being used are all-black schools, and it may be that black parents are more willing, given the usually desperately bad conditions prevalent in big city black schools, to experiment with TM to see if it helps their kids. Since no white children are involved, these schools are off the radar of many fundies. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Kenny H [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone remember when the NJ court case and ruling actually took place? In late 79-early 80, I wrote a grant to the Bd of Ed of the City of NY, at the request of a middle school principal in the South Bronx, and ended up getting money and initiating nearly the entire faculty of this bombed out school in the middle of what had to be the worst neighborhood in the five boroughs. The principal was so impressed after the first couple of batches of teachers learned, that he pulled money earmarked for the school psychologist so the rest of the faculty could learn. After the 3 days of checking, the 10 day follow up I never saw any of those people again. Ken * People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. Bill Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it did not work out well: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/26/05 6:20:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: . The Supreme Court upheld the initial decision in a 1979 ruling. After several years of steady growth, this same time frame marks the beginning of a decline in the number of new initiates to the meditation program. Two things that make people here hopping mad: 1. A non-meditating judge in Missouri is sentancing offenders to TM. 2. TM is legally taught as a general school policy in some public schools with great success, and with public funds. *** I'm definitely on the side of kids' learning TM, but because their meditating parents got them to start, not because they had to as a school assignment, which I don't see working as a strategy in the U.S. Nevertheless, if the two charter schools do survive, it will be good for the TM movement, and for the kids involved. However, many charter schools are having problems, and they can disappear in a hurry: http://www.tft250.org/Ohio's_charter_schools.html To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 10:52 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. Bill Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it did not work out well: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope that some dictator or factory owner was going to mandate TM on his citizens/employees. He tried repeatedly to get this to happen and it always flopped. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 10:52 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * People who are ordered to start TM are unlikely to have the same interest in continuing as those who had the desire on their own. Bill Coors, the beer baron, ordered his execs to start TM, naturally it did not work out well: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/more2.html#coors I was always puzzled by Maharishi's recurrent hope that some dictator or factory owner was going to mandate TM on his citizens/employees. He tried repeatedly to get this to happen and it always flopped. *** Right, which is why the movement needs a manager who is familiar with the culture of a country (_and_ is not a fatuous clown like Bevan, Hagelin, blah,blah,blah) to promote TM effectively -- MMY, a Hindu monk, can't be that manager, not even in India (because a recluse monk is a real poor social engineer), which is why he left in the 50s since he realized that he lacked the knowledge of how to promote TM quickly enough: http://geocities.com/bbrigante/comp.html#30 (you have possibly seen this post from me previously) If MMY does not do something dramatic before he dies (and with the announcement of Sat Yuga this July, this is a possibility), sooner or later retard management will be booted out by some organized person who, with the support of all the meditators who are fed up with the useful grandstanding of the current movement, will put the promotion of TM on a rational track. However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the near future, and then it won't matter how messed up the movement is -- MMY used to say that the time would come when people would be banging on the doors of TM teachers late at night demanding to be initiated -- yogic fliers on the evening news (actually flying) would certainly fulfill that forecast. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You would have no legal standing, not being a local or state of michigan taxpayer. However, feel free to get the bible thumpers going, they've got to find a new thing once terri schiavo drools her last in a few hours. They've already latched on to that finger found in a bowl of Wendy's chili: http://tinyurl.com/4ouwd To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the near future, What makes you think so? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the near future, What makes you think so? * My own experiences -- not to brag, but after eating at Taco Bell, I achieve significant lift-off. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 3/26/05 11:11 PM, Bob Brigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, all this may not make much of a difference, since an actual yogic flyer would be far and away the best advertising possible, and I think a legitimate and convincing demonstration in possible in the near future, What makes you think so? * My own experiences -- not to brag, but after eating at Taco Bell, I achieve significant lift-off. I used to hand out See's candies on governor training. That sugar rush is great for lift off. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Absolutely rightand what about the millions of people, rich and poor alike, who are willing to spend huge amounts in cigarettes, alcohol, etc...we always find the money for those, yet we don't want to pay much for a technique we could use for the rest of our lives... We could go on and on down the list of expenses we have, clothing, holidays, etc. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 65 cents a day over 10 years. $1.30 a day over 5 years. 2.60 a day over 2.5 years I drink more quickstop coffee than that. Cut down on one movie a week and its done. Not as bad as I thought. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
If anyone wants to make a donation to the TMO they can, at any time.
I was instructed at Maharishi Ashram for free. I have since made many
donations to the movement.
As far as I can gather there is no truth to the oft-repeated claim
that it is traditional to charge for initiation into meditation,
quite the contrary. It was MMY who introduced the fee ('fixed
donation') almost as soon as he arrived in the States.
On this very issue, Shankaracharya Swaroopanand Saraswati, a direct
disciple of Gurudev was asked:-
Q: Brahmananda Saraswati did not charge any fees when he used to
initiate?
SwaroopanandJi: This is a principle. A quotation from Goswami
Tulsidas: The guru who charges or takes money from his disciples in
return for initiation, steals disciples property and goes to damnable
hell.
For that reason Guru Deva used to give 'upadesha' (initiation)
without any fees. He used to say If I accept any gift from the
disciple (or fees), then his sins are transmitted to me. In India,
dharma, yoga, knowledge, specialized knowledge can never be sold for
money. That is priceless. Anyone who puts a price on it insults it.
So, a mantra is also never given for money. Knowledge cannot be sold
for money. Therefore, the process that is being employed by Mahesh is
merely for the sake of making money, and this is entirely against the
canons of Indian culture and civilization.
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 25, 2005, at 6:59 AM, rgjcm wrote: Absolutely rightand what about the millions of people, rich and poor alike, who are willing to spend huge amounts in cigarettes, alcohol, etc...we always find the money for those, yet we don't want to pay much for a technique we could use for the rest of our lives... We could go on and on down the list of expenses we have, clothing, holidays, etc. Why, when you can get a better version (e.g. Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Goenka Vipassana, et.) for cheaper? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 25, 2005, at 7:43 AM, Paul Mason wrote: SwaroopanandJi: This is a principle. A quotation from Goswami Tulsidas: The guru who charges or takes money from his disciples in return for initiation, steals disciples property and goes to damnable hell. Hi Paul: This is precisely what the sannyasis of the Holy Shankaracharya Order told me: Mahesh was going to patala-loka (hell) for selling the Ved. It's not unusual to give dakshina (money offering) to a GURU, but usually there is a deeper commitment form the guru in that case. MMY has avoided being a guru. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Interpretations of the Ramayana, authored by Goswani Tulsidas are many. The verse in question says that a guru who takes money from his/her chela without leading chela to self-knowledge goes to hell for sure. TM leads the chela to self knowledge. Or not? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2005, at 7:43 AM, Paul Mason wrote: SwaroopanandJi: This is a principle. A quotation from Goswami Tulsidas: The guru who charges or takes money from his disciples in return for initiation, steals disciples property and goes to damnable hell. Hi Paul: This is precisely what the sannyasis of the Holy Shankaracharya Order told me: Mahesh was going to patala-loka (hell) for selling the Ved. It's not unusual to give dakshina (money offering) to a GURU, but usually there is a deeper commitment form the guru in that case. MMY has avoided being a guru. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rgjcm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Absolutely rightand what about the millions of people, rich and poor alike, who are willing to spend huge amounts in cigarettes, alcohol, etc...we always find the money for those, yet we don't want to pay much for a technique we could use for the rest of our lives... We could go on and on down the list of expenses we have, clothing, holidays, etc. Right, and once you're in charge, you can change all that. Let's modify people behavior. No one better than you, I'm sure, to be the great arbitor. lurk To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
If we're going to amortize the costs of education over the lifetime the knowledge is applied, elementary schools would charge parents $100,000 to teach little kids how to read. The same goes if we peg costs to the education's potential value. It's just not practical, culturally accepted or fair. - Patrick Gillam --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings wrote: 65 cents a day over 10 years. $1.30 a day over 5 years. 2.60 a day over 2.5 years I drink more quickstop coffee than that. Cut down on one movie a week and its done. Not as bad as I thought. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 25, 2005, at 10:10 AM, akasha_108 wrote: So it follows then that if a teacher does charge, he is offering the student a great blessing by creating a link to the student by which all the students sins are transmitted to the teacher. And folowing this logic if more money is charged, more sins are transmitted. So by this logic, MMY is a great teacher, absorbing bountiful amounts of students sin. If I follow this logic, it sounds like the bad karma would go onto the initiator--unless of course you are being directly initiated by MMY that means a TM teacher/Governor To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 25, 2005, at 10:10 AM, akasha_108 wrote: So it follows then that if a teacher does charge, he is offering the student a great blessing by creating a link to the student by which all the students sins are transmitted to the teacher. And folowing this logic if more money is charged, more sins are transmitted. So by this logic, MMY is a great teacher, absorbing bountiful amounts of students sin. If I follow this logic, it sounds like the bad karma would go onto the initiator--unless of course you are being directly initiated by MMY that means a TM teacher/Governor yes, see the rest of my post where i discuss this. Does 50% go to teacher, 50% to National / International? And what if the teacher spent all of his earnings on going to moe courses? The flow of funds becomes an offering into the fire of knowledge -- so to the sins flow likewise? But then since MMY created us as multiples of himself, and initiated us as teachers, does he take on all of our sin load that we took on from students? Or since the offering is made to Guru Dev, and all of the teaching is in his name, is all of the sin eventually absorbed in his grace? Or since it all start with Narayana -- perhaps HE absorbs all of the sin ultimately. I used to work at the Berkeley center, before becoming a teacher, as the scholarship guy -- if someone could not afford the $35, then they were usually allowed to pay what they could, and / or promise to pay more later. (yes, it really did work like that back then). So if someone was asked to pay $35 and I heard their story and said ok, $20 is good, did I accrue $15 of merit (thats 1969 dollars so worth way moe today)? Rick initiated Peter, who proclaims jivanmukti has arrived. Does Rick gain GREAT merit for that? But Rick also initiated Haiglin, hmmm, mixed bag of karma for that ? What do you think? :) Unfathomable is the course of sins, um I mean action. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Well, MMY used to use an analogy equating TM with building a house. So I think a 30 year nortgage is called for -- to be automaticaly deducted from ones checking account each month. So I think a 30 yr mortgage on TMO initiation is called for. At 10% down, $250, and at a 5% fixed rate, the payments would be $.40 a day, or just over $12/month. Cheaper than basic cable. And I suppose advanced programs, yagyas, AV, could be treated all the same. High rollers might sign up for the mansion of inner housing and take all 40 vedic pathways to enlightenment, for a mere $480 / month. Of course, the rage now is 103% financing for homes, so that no down payment is required, and closing costs are covered by the extra 3%. A TMO equivalent 30 yr 103% financing monthly mortgage payment would be 45 cents a day or $13.82 per month. The extra $75 (the 3%) could cover fruit, flowers, and tips for the flower girls. Knowing MMY, actually, I think he would love this idea. (not a ding, but if this idea were brought up, he would go, yes, very good, we should do it. Of course the movement can bundle up all the mortgages and sell them off to get the value of the mortgage now (You know, living in the NOW) -- like banks do to Fannie Mae with their housing mortgages. But will the TMO only be paid back in Raams? And I am not sure what happens if someone defaults on their loan. Do they get a sin dump -- all their TMO absorbed sin dumped back on them in whole, at once? After a few poor souls got that effect, and were so physically and mentally wiped out by it, I am sure few after that would dare to default. Poster could be made -- Do you want to end up like this guy? Then TM twice a day, and once a month at the bank. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Akasha 108 writes: Rick initiated Peter, who proclaims jivanmukti has arrived. Does Rick gain GREAT merit for that? But Rick also initiated Haiglin, hmmm, mixed bag of karma for that ? Tom T: He also gave me my intro and got me addicted. So, can we all say. It's all his fault Tom makes outlandish claims. Tom To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
On Mar 25, 2005, at 11:34 AM, Rick Archer wrote: Ammachi always imparts mantras without charge. Yeah I liked that about her. She initiated me into Kali and gave Shaktipat for free. Back then she used to talk in this kind of proto-Sanskrit and she was just in this ecstatic trance. Then we all did puja together. The only thing we paid for were our puja supplies (offerings, etc.). To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/25/05 10:35 AM, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha 108 writes: Rick initiated Peter, who proclaims jivanmukti has arrived. Does Rick gain GREAT merit for that? But Rick also initiated Haiglin, hmmm, mixed bag of karma for that ? Tom T: He also gave me my intro and got me addicted. So, can we all say. It's all his fault Tom makes outlandish claims. I like to think of it as a cosmic MLM system, and I got in near the ground floor. I taught Deepak's intro TM course too, but wasn't his initiator. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha 108 writes: Rick initiated Peter, who proclaims jivanmukti has arrived. Does Rick gain GREAT merit for that? But Rick also initiated Haiglin, hmmm, mixed bag of karma for that ? Tom T: He also gave me my intro and got me addicted. So, can we all say. It's all his fault Tom makes outlandish claims. Tom Well, that explains it. Rick clearly messed up his into lecture bad. And prolly gave Peter the wrong mantra, which has desroyed Peter's brain so bad now that he is so delusional, he thinks he doesn't exist. And Haiglin is off doing well need i say more. Rick appears to be at the root of so many problems today: FFL, Tom, Peter, Haiglin, Chopra. And he likes Alison Krauss music. Clearly he is deranged and a threat to society. :) To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
on 3/25/05 10:56 AM, akasha_108 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha 108 writes: Rick initiated Peter, who proclaims jivanmukti has arrived. Does Rick gain GREAT merit for that? But Rick also initiated Haiglin, hmmm, mixed bag of karma for that ? Tom T: He also gave me my intro and got me addicted. So, can we all say. It's all his fault Tom makes outlandish claims. Tom Well, that explains it. Rick clearly messed up his into lecture bad. And prolly gave Peter the wrong mantra, which has desroyed Peter's brain so bad now that he is so delusional, he thinks he doesn't exist. And Haiglin is off doing well need i say more. Rick appears to be at the root of so many problems today: FFL, Tom, Peter, Haiglin, Chopra. And he likes Alison Krauss music. Clearly he is deranged and a threat to society. Rick left years ago and an alien walk-in took over. Bwahaahaa! To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
and this is entirely against the canons of Indian culture and civilization.-yes, what he said!To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
In a message dated 3/25/05 6:44:31 A.M. Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
If
anyone wants to make a donation to the TMO they can, at any time. I was
instructed at Maharishi Ashram for free. I have since made many donations
to the movement.As far as I can gather there is no truth to the
oft-repeated claim that it is traditional to charge for initiation into
meditation, quite the contrary. It was MMY who introduced the fee ('fixed
donation') almost as soon as he arrived in the States.On this very
issue, Shankaracharya Swaroopanand Saraswati, a direct disciple of Gurudev
was asked:-Q: Brahmananda Saraswati did not charge any fees when he used
to initiate?SwaroopanandJi: This is a principle. A quotation from
Goswami Tulsidas: "The guru who charges or takes money from his disciples
in return for initiation, steals disciples property and goes to damnable
hell."For that reason Guru Deva used to give 'upadesha' (initiation)
without any fees. He used to say "If I accept any gift from the
disciple (or fees), then his sins are transmitted to me." In India,
dharma, yoga, knowledge, specialized knowledge can never be sold for
money. That is priceless. Anyone who puts a price on it insults it.
So, a mantra is also never given for money. Knowledge cannot be sold
for money. Therefore, the process that is being employed by Mahesh is
merely for the sake of making money, and this is entirely against the
canons of Indian culture and
civilization.
And the best way for all of us initiators who have initiated
for money over the years to make amends is to go out and teach at least as many
people for free that you taught for a fee.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, tomandcindytraynoratfairfieldlis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Akasha 108 writes: Rick initiated Peter, who proclaims jivanmukti has arrived. Does Rick gain GREAT merit for that? But Rick also initiated Haiglin, hmmm, mixed bag of karma for that ? Tom T: He also gave me my intro and got me addicted. So, can we all say. It's all his fault Tom makes outlandish claims. Tom Rick Archer: Evil moderator and innocent gateway to higher and higher levels of enlightenment. Dammit! This guy is hard to pigeonhole. RAC To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
How does this sin model work for TM teachers. Do they take on half ofthe sin of each student, the other half is taken on by "Internaional"?Maybe that explains why the TMO, and most of its teachers sort ofcrashed after the bom initiations days of the mid 70's. BothInternational and initiators have needed the last 30 years to digestall the sin they took on. --at some point the ends and the means are not justifiable. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Well, if this was the case at least someone could keep a checkbook on their moral value and upliftment in their world, but would it be the same as their real checkbook as the movement thinks? I guess only if one is selling air. I owe a hundredthousand bucks on my undergrad and so I'm always wonderin what the moral analogue of that is. - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 9:49 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM. Well, MMY used to use an analogy equating TM with building a house. SoI think a 30 year nortgage is called for -- to be automaticalydeducted from ones checking account each month. So I think a 30 yrmortgage on TMO initiation is called for.At 10% down, $250, and at a 5% fixed rate, the payments would be $.40a day, or just over $12/month. Cheaper than basic cable. And I supposeadvanced programs, yagyas, AV, could be treated all the same. Highrollers might sign up for the "mansion" of inner housing and take all40 vedic pathways to enlightenment, for a mere $480 / month. Of course, the rage now is 103% financing for homes, so that no downpayment is required, and closing costs are covered by the extra 3%.A TMO equivalent 30 yr 103% financing monthly mortgage payment wouldbe 45 cents a day or $13.82 per month. The extra $75 (the 3%) couldcover fruit, flowers, and tips for the flower girls. Knowing MMY, actually, I think he would love this idea. (not a ding,but if this idea were brought up, he would go, "yes, very good, weshould do it."Of course the movement can bundle up all the mortgages and sell themoff to get the value of the mortgage now (You know, living in the NOW)-- like banks do to Fannie Mae with their housing mortgages. Butwill the TMO only be paid back in Raams? And I am not sure what happens if someone defaults on their loan. Dothey get a "sin dump" -- all their TMO absorbed sin dumped back onthem in whole, at once? After a few poor souls got that effect, andwere so physically and mentally wiped out by it, I am sure few afterthat would dare to default. Poster could be made -- "Do you want toend up like this guy? Then TM twice a day, and once a month at the bank."To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Shankaracharya Swaroopanand Saraswati also disputes the validity of the religious title the Shankracharya of Kanchi holds. And note that the latter has the support of Ammachi and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, so go figure... - After a charge of murder, the Shankracharya of Kanchi has now to contend with a question on the validity of the religious title he holds. The aspersion was cast by the Shankyacharya of Dwarka Shardapeeth, Swami Swaroopanand Saraswati on Thursday in a press conference in Varanasi. Kanchi is not among the four recognised peeths established by the Adi Sankaracharya. The constant reference by the media to Jayendra Saraswati as Shankaracharya is an insult to the revered post. He is simply the priest of a religious sect, Swami Saraswati noted. There was also criticism for the various self styled Shankracharyas who were taking up media space to vent their views on the issue. While describing the arrest as unfortunate he noted that it had failed to stir the sentiments of Hindus as he had been arrested in a criminal matter. The followers of Sanatam dharma are shocked by the involvement of one of the guardians of our religion in a crime so heinous. The swami also poured scorn on the BJP for taking up the issue. The party has taken up the issue for vested political interests. It is a ploy to demonstrate to the masses that the party is sympathetic to the sentiments of Hindus. He added that those leaders whose images had been sullied because of their inactivity in the Ram Janmbhoomi case were now trying to cash in on the issue to redeem their standing. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 3/25/05 6:44:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On this very issue, Shankaracharya Swaroopanand Saraswati, a direct disciple of Gurudev was asked:- Q: Brahmananda Saraswati did not charge any fees when he used to initiate? SwaroopanandJi: This is a principle. A quotation from Goswami Tulsidas: The guru who charges or takes money from his disciples in return for initiation, steals disciples property and goes to damnable hell. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And the best way for all of us initiators who have initiated for money over the years to make amends is to go out and teach at least as many people for free that you taught for a fee. No teaching for free is only the norm. You have to teach as many people as you initiated and pay them each the initiation fee in order to resolve your sins. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, luzalma1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shankaracharya Swaroopanand Saraswati also disputes the validity of the religious title the Shankracharya of Kanchi holds. And note that the latter has the support of Ammachi and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, so go figure... As I mentioned to another on this list:- In matters of scriptural authority I would be guided by the Shankaracharya who is himself a disciple of Shankaracharya Brahmananda Saraswati - 'Guru Dev', rather than by an anonymous internet poster. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, rudra_joe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I owe a hundredthousand bucks on my undergrad .. Perhaps thats what holding up Heaven on Earth. It won't happen until you fully pay back your loan. To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
We'll pay you to practice TM. Now that's a great fucking idea! I bet it still wouldn't work though. Too much suspicion. All the fundies would think satan was eloping. - Original Message - From: akasha_108 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 12:38 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED]... wrote: And the best way for all of us initiators who have initiated formoney over the years to make amends is to go out and teach at least as many people for free that you taught for a fee.No teaching for free is only the norm. You have to teach as manypeople as you initiated and pay them each the initiation fee in orderto resolve your sins. To subscribe, send a message to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/and click 'Join This Group!' To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: THE PRICE OF TM.
Perhaps thats what holding up Heaven on Earth. It won't happen untilyou fully pay back your loan. I was always an undermotivated under acheiver, Lord, why did you place this burden upon me? Could not someone help me pay back my loans and support heaven on earth? I prefer sponsors only. They will get a favorable shout out in all future editions of my emails like this: --==This message brought to you by ~~Kelly Clarksson~~ Thanks Kelly, You Rock!==-- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
