[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Apr 24, 2011, at 9:20 PM, Rick Archer wrote: From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Vaj If you actually listen to what he [Saniel Bonder] has to say, you'll hear that he left Adi Da because he felt that continuing to associate with him compromised his integrity, his sense of morality, honesty, etc. I don't know much about Adi Da, but I found Saniel to be a very honest, open guy, willing to admit when he was wrong, to revise his thinking and approach as his understanding and experience mature, etc. In other words, a spiritually mature fellow. I'd suspect it was that way with many Adi Da students. When your guru starts putting out cigarettes on women's bodies as a teaching lesson, it doesn't take a huge amount of spiritual maturity to know it's time to move on and put on your running shoes (or at least call your attorney). After the Rama guy died, I was frankly shocked to hear that a number of his former students (who, unlike me, stuck around to the end and had him leave them rather than walking away themselves) took up with Adi Da. In retrospect I think that Da's outlaw rep kinda drew them to him. From what I've heard, he took one look at these former Rama students, saw the clothes they were wearing, the cars they were driving, and the good consulting incomes they all had, and started praising Rama up one side and down the other. Natch, a few of Rama's former students piled on to this, and soon thereafter were hit up for money. (To be honest, having to pay big bucks to a spir- itual teacher was probably par for the course for them, and they didn't mind.) The tale from that period that told me the most (IMO) about Adi Da was the auction he held to raise money, soon after these (fairly) wealthy former Rama students showed up. One of the items for sale was a Q-tip, used by him, and thus containing some of his Holy Ear Wax. I'm serious. Somebody probably paid big bucks for it as a holy relic. There is crazy wisdom, and then there is crazy wisdom. :-) I was not in the market for a spiritual teacher when I walked away from the Rama trip, and so would never have been tempted by him even if I had liked his vibe. Which I didn't. Never met the guy, though, so he might have had his good points. In my experience, it is not unusual for students of a controversial teacher to outshine their teacher when they start teaching themselves, and to carry with them none of the teacher's bad habits. I can think of several of Trogyam Chungpa's students who fit this description, and a few of Rama's. so Alex's description of Bonder as having escaped the Adi Da thang with his ethics intact doesn't surprise me. Sometimes seeing it done wrong can teach more than seeing it done right.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote: The tale from that period that told me the most (IMO) about Adi Da was the auction he held to raise money, soon after these (fairly) wealthy former Rama students showed up. One of the items for sale was a Q-tip, used by him, and thus containing some of his Holy Ear Wax. I'm serious. Somebody probably paid big bucks for it as a holy relic. There is crazy wisdom, and then there is crazy wisdom. :-) People who visited his sanctuary in CA used to be given an mandatory tour of the place and were shown the holy spots where Adi Da had pissed (among others).
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote: The tale from that period that told me the most (IMO) about Adi Da was the auction he held to raise money, soon after these (fairly) wealthy former Rama students showed up. One of the items for sale was a Q-tip, used by him, and thus containing some of his Holy Ear Wax. I'm serious. Somebody probably paid big bucks for it as a holy relic. There is crazy wisdom, and then there is crazy wisdom. :-) People who visited his sanctuary in CA used to be given an mandatory tour of the place and were shown the holy spots where Adi Da had pissed (among others). Since this is the Waking Down topic, I will point out that there is none of that in Waking Down. In fact, some years ago, Saniel sent out an email suggesting that students express gratitude for their teachers on Guru Purnima, and that did not go over well for a lot of us, myself included. I really like that WD is westernized, and I was not happy to see him try to incorporate unneeded, Indian cultural baggage.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
Tom Pall: Would someone kindly state the high concepts of Waking Down for me? Everyone knows that 'Waking Down' is derived from the same source as the 'neo-Advaitins'. Notions of being 'all of who we are', 'unity', 'awakening', to the 'fullness of your own nature', being 'united' in the here-and-now, are pages straight out of the Neo-Advaitin handbook. Realizing an 'awakened state' of unity consciousness and integration into daily life, without the need for a 'spiritual master' or without a specific practice, are almost pure neo-Advaita. What we need here are some definitions. Apparently there are no Waking Down Teachers on this discussion group.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
The poor guy is probably terrified to express even a neutral opinion regarding any other path (other than tibetan buddhism) after his family of religious fanatics caught him dabbling in TM. The scars of that encounter are still clearly evident for Vaj. Hope he seeks professional help. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@... wrote: Gosh, you mean our Vaj is pretending to know more about Bonder and Walking Down than he actually does? What a shock. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: That is a very uninformed view about WD and Saniel Bonder, Vaj. He is actually quite sane, normal and articulate. I recommend that you listen to Rick's recent interview with SD. He was with Adi Da, and learned a lot, decided specifically *not* to emulate his teacher's ways and is definitely not an advocate for 'crazy wisdom'. Maybe you need a vacation in China to open your mind? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: snip Bonder was a follower of Adi Da, Da Free John, Bubba Free John, Da Love Ananda, etc. To find out where Bonder's approach comes from, look at Bubba's radical, nondual, crazyman message (DON'T look at his belly button, it's an outie and the guy doesn't seem to like SHIRTS).
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
When your guru starts putting out cigarettes on women's bodies as a teaching lesson... turquoiseb: In my experience, it is not unusual for students of a controversial teacher to outshine their teacher when they start teaching themselves, and to carry with them none of the teacher's bad habits. I can think of several of Trogyam Chungpa's students who fit this description... Which students, that are now teaching, did not carry with them Trungpa's 'bad habits'? Apparently Adi Da did not smoke cigarettes, but it was Vaj's gurus, Swami Rama and Trungpa Rinpoche that smoked the Marlboro Lights, a pack-a-day.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
Seems you have more in common with Adi Da than you think. Here is a picture on Flicker of the Dalai Lama's toilet in Tibet that he used to relieve himself into, revered as a holy object, with donations of money placed on the seat. http://www.flickr.com/photos/33875459@N05/3541380207/ --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote: The tale from that period that told me the most (IMO) about Adi Da was the auction he held to raise money, soon after these (fairly) wealthy former Rama students showed up. One of the items for sale was a Q-tip, used by him, and thus containing some of his Holy Ear Wax. I'm serious. Somebody probably paid big bucks for it as a holy relic. There is crazy wisdom, and then there is crazy wisdom. :-) People who visited his sanctuary in CA used to be given an mandatory tour of the place and were shown the holy spots where Adi Da had pissed (among others).
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: Seems you have more in common with Adi Da than you think. Here is a picture on Flicker of the Dalai Lama's toilet in Tibet that he used to relieve himself into, revered as a holy object, with donations of money placed on the seat. http://www.flickr.com/photos/33875459@N05/3541380207/ Haha, great find ! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote: The tale from that period that told me the most (IMO) about Adi Da was the auction he held to raise money, soon after these (fairly) wealthy former Rama students showed up. One of the items for sale was a Q-tip, used by him, and thus containing some of his Holy Ear Wax. I'm serious. Somebody probably paid big bucks for it as a holy relic. There is crazy wisdom, and then there is crazy wisdom. :-) People who visited his sanctuary in CA used to be given an mandatory tour of the place and were shown the holy spots where Adi Da had pissed (among others).
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
A picture is worth a thousand words - lol --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 no_reply@... wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@ wrote: Seems you have more in common with Adi Da than you think. Here is a picture on Flicker of the Dalai Lama's toilet in Tibet that he used to relieve himself into, revered as a holy object, with donations of money placed on the seat. http://www.flickr.com/photos/33875459@N05/3541380207/ Haha, great find ! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: On Apr 25, 2011, at 8:38 AM, turquoiseb wrote: The tale from that period that told me the most (IMO) about Adi Da was the auction he held to raise money, soon after these (fairly) wealthy former Rama students showed up. One of the items for sale was a Q-tip, used by him, and thus containing some of his Holy Ear Wax. I'm serious. Somebody probably paid big bucks for it as a holy relic. There is crazy wisdom, and then there is crazy wisdom. :-) People who visited his sanctuary in CA used to be given an mandatory tour of the place and were shown the holy spots where Adi Da had pissed (among others).
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Tom Pall thomas.pall@... wrote: Every time Alex or someone else mentions Waking Down I go google it. I find websites which talk about about Waking Down but never give the high concepts. Would someone kindly state the high concepts of Waking Down for me? High concept? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_concept As in the essence of WD distilled down to one or two short sentences? I'm pretty good at describing my own experience, but I was never into reading Saniel's books or glomming on to WD's loose conceptual framework. In fact, as has been recently pointed out, I don't have a meticulous grasp of spiritual concepts in general. I can, however, give you a mini historical nutshell. Saniel was with Adi Da for 20 years, left the org under threats of hell, had a dark night of the soul, woke up, started giving satsangs, and found that his awakening was infectious. Different people seem to get spiritual transmission from different aspects of WD. Some people actually do get juiced up from reading Saniel's books. For me, the whole process was driven by the gazing meditation (sitting and staring directly into the teacher's eyes). It was darshan exactly as Barry described it in that post of his that I keep mentioning. Maybe you could get a better feel for it by watching Rick's BATGAP videos of WD teachers Steve and Winifred Boggs, Fax and Sharon Gilbert, Sandra Glickman, and Saniel and Linda. I haven't watched any of them, so I have no idea what the videos are like. It appears Eastern in origin, repackaged into Western idioms Yeah, basically. and of course it's transformed zillions of lives. I wouldn't say that. A remarkably large percentage of people in WD do actually have that awakening, but I would describe it as a fringe niche path. WD best fits people who are rotting in their spiritual practice, having spent years or decades pursuing spirituality and not finding what they're looking for. And, the transformations that do happen are not always for the better. As I've said, some aspects of my life have become more difficult. And, there was another person in FF, who had extreme emotional problems dating back to her childhood, who crashed and burned in the post-awakening Wakedown Shakedown. She slipped out of town, made her way to California, and disappeared. They found her wallet. She had talked about jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, and she may have done it. That's all I've been able to glean. I assume Waking Down wants to differentiate itself from waking up. I think they're trying to emphasize the Tantric aspect.
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
That is a very uninformed view about WD and Saniel Bonder, Vaj. He is actually quite sane, normal and articulate. I recommend that you listen to Rick's recent interview with SD. He was with Adi Da, and learned a lot, decided specifically *not* to emulate his teacher's ways and is definitely not an advocate for 'crazy wisdom'. Maybe you need a vacation in China to open your mind? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@... wrote: On Apr 24, 2011, at 8:11 PM, Tom Pall wrote: Every time Alex or someone else mentions Waking Down I go google it. I find websites which talk about about Waking Down but never give the high concepts. Would someone kindly state the high concepts of Waking Down for me? It appears Eastern in origin, repackaged into Western idioms and of course it's transformed zillions of lives. That's all I've been able to glean. I assume Waking Down wants to differentiate itself from waking up. How does it do that? Bonder was a follower of Adi Da, Da Free John, Bubba Free John, Da Love Ananda, etc. To find out where Bonder's approach comes from, look at Bubba's radical, nondual, crazyman message (DON'T look at his belly button, it's an outie and the guy doesn't seem to like SHIRTS).
[FairfieldLife] Re: What is waking down?
Gosh, you mean our Vaj is pretending to know more about Bonder and Walking Down than he actually does? What a shock. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, whynotnow7 whynotnow7@... wrote: That is a very uninformed view about WD and Saniel Bonder, Vaj. He is actually quite sane, normal and articulate. I recommend that you listen to Rick's recent interview with SD. He was with Adi Da, and learned a lot, decided specifically *not* to emulate his teacher's ways and is definitely not an advocate for 'crazy wisdom'. Maybe you need a vacation in China to open your mind? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajradhatu@ wrote: snip Bonder was a follower of Adi Da, Da Free John, Bubba Free John, Da Love Ananda, etc. To find out where Bonder's approach comes from, look at Bubba's radical, nondual, crazyman message (DON'T look at his belly button, it's an outie and the guy doesn't seem to like SHIRTS).
