[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer jeffcandace@ wrote: As anyone reading this is back walking around in a body, where did you go the last time you dropped your body? One of Patanjali's sutras not taught by the TMO is for knowing past lives, so this knowledge is certainly doable, and the Vedic lit is full of sages who recalled all their past lives. Apparently going to hell first (and heaven afterwards, before rebirth on earth) when you die is a good thing, as it means that your life was predominately good -- people who go to heaven first spend a longer time in hell (s) ): 18. By perceiving the impressions, (comes) the knowledge of past life. Each experience that we have, comes in the form of a wave in the Chitta, and this subsides and becomes finer and finer, but is never lost. It remains there in minute form, and if we can bring this wave up again, it becomes memory. So, if the Yogi can make a Samyama on these past impressions in the mind, he will begin to remember all his past lives. http://www.yoga-age.com/sutras/pata3.html Nice translations. I don't think I have seen die at will in connection with this suutra before: 40. By conquering the current called Udana the Yogi does not sink in water or in swamps, he can walk on thorns etc., and can, die at will. Udana is the name of the nerve current that governs the lungs and all the upper parts of the body, and when he is master of it, he becomes light in weight. He does not sink in water; he can walk on thorns and sword blades, and stand in fire, and can depart this life whenever he likes. utkrAnti f. stepping up to VS. S3Br. ; going out ; passing away , dying Katha1s.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As anyone reading this is back walking around in a body, where did you go the last time you dropped your body? 'You are not walking around in a body: The body is walking around while you are in it.' As far as I remember, I'm not sure you 'go' anywhere. At first, I think you hover around, for a while, watch, and feeling, the circumstance of your life, and death; The way you die is of significance, and this is pondered... Then, I think your soul revisits different realms, in the past; different energies are absorbed into the soul, and the karmas of the past, are there... I believe that these karmas, from the past, bring you back, to earth again- born into a family, and a situation, which is where you left off the last time on earth: Except, it might just be opposite, in that if you were a poor before, you might be rich, so the soul would be able to balance the karmas. I have had readings, from a couple of people whom I trusted with information, on some of my past lives... And this can stimulate memories.. or even help in the developement of this particular ability or siddhi. And, it can help to know why certain, 'bad' things happen, in a way- you can see how a past life circumstance would create a present life event or life script, etc..; you may even transcend, resentment about something current. Also, you can get faint feelings of where you may have spent time with friends and family in past times, and places. You can get a sense of history repeating itself, in current events, as the karma of the past unfolds. R.G.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bob_brigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer jeffcandace@ wrote: As anyone reading this is back walking around in a body, where did you go the last time you dropped your body? One of Patanjali's sutras not taught by the TMO is for knowing past lives, so this knowledge is certainly doable, and the Vedic lit is full of sages who recalled all their past lives. Apparently going to hell first (and heaven afterwards, before rebirth on earth) when you die is a good thing, as it means that your life was predominately good -- people who go to heaven first spend a longer time in hell(s) ): Remembering one's past lives can also happen spontaneously, without any technique. Just as information, another way of seeing the same phenomena (subjective experience of heaven or hell) is that between lives the being passes through experiences *of his own making* that he *interprets* as either heaven or hell. In this view, there is no such place as heaven or hell, merely the individual experiences that an individual being puts himself/ herself through between death and rebirth. The Tibetan view is that one passes through illusory experiences that reflect *all* of one's attachments to good experiences (which some may map to the experience of heaven) and another set of equally illusory experiences that reflect all of their aversions (which again, many may interpret as hell). 18. By perceiving the impressions, (comes) the knowledge of past life. Each experience that we have, comes in the form of a wave in the Chitta, and this subsides and becomes finer and finer, but is never lost. It remains there in minute form, and if we can bring this wave up again, it becomes memory. So, if the Yogi can make a Samyama on these past impressions in the mind, he will begin to remember all his past lives. http://www.yoga-age.com/sutras/pata3.html True, but (IMO) of limited value. Sure, we can remember not only our past lives but the past transitions between those lives and the next, and all of the Bardo experiences in between, but IMO all of this is of no more *value* than going to see a movie. The only *value* that is possible from knowing one's past lives is that one could learn of samskaric patterns in them and thus try to avoid those same patterns in the present incarnation. Unfortunately, what seems to happen is that the very people who become obsessed with discovering their past lives become equally obsessed with the exper- iences they had in them, *without* trying to discern which of those experiences led to the illusory experience in the Bardo of heaven and which led to the illusory experience of hell. Thus they just *repeat* those same experience-patterns, and go through it all again, in a new incarnation, having made no real progress. So in many ways, forgetting one's past lives may actually be more valuable in the long run because one has the ability to have a fresh start, without attachment for past actions that -- after all -- did nothing more than land us here in the present with pretty much the same karma and pretty much the same set of samskaras that we had before. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
Nice. Thanks. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Robert Gimbel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'You are not walking around in a body: The body is walking around while you are in it.' As far as I remember, I'm not sure you 'go' anywhere. At first, I think you hover around, for a while, watch, and feeling, the circumstance of your life, and death; The way you die is of significance, and this is pondered... Then, I think your soul revisits different realms, in the past; different energies are absorbed into the soul, and the karmas of the past, are there... I believe that these karmas, from the past, bring you back, to earth again- born into a family, and a situation, which is where you left off the last time on earth: Except, it might just be opposite, in that if you were a poor before, you might be rich, so the soul would be able to balance the karmas. I have had readings, from a couple of people whom I trusted with information, on some of my past lives... And this can stimulate memories.. or even help in the developement of this particular ability or siddhi. And, it can help to know why certain, 'bad' things happen, in a way- you can see how a past life circumstance would create a present life event or life script, etc..; you may even transcend, resentment about something current. Also, you can get faint feelings of where you may have spent time with friends and family in past times, and places. You can get a sense of history repeating itself, in current events, as the karma of the past unfolds. R.G.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:10 AM, cardemaister wrote:
40. By conquering the current called Udana the Yogi does not sink in
water or in swamps, he can walk on thorns etc., and can, die at will.
Udana is the name of the nerve current that governs the lungs and all
the upper parts of the body, and when he is master of it, he becomes
light in weight. He does not sink in water; he can walk on thorns and
sword blades, and stand in fire, and can depart this life whenever he
likes.
utkrAnti f. stepping up to VS. S3Br. ; going out ; passing away ,
dying Katha1s.
It's a common yogic term. The term used when one is initated into
conscious transference is saMkrAnti: transference. The Tibetans
call it
Consciousness Transference
From RangjungYesheWiki
Consciousness Transference ('pho ba)
The process of the transference of consciousness (Skt. saṃkrānti)
at the moment of death enables the deceased to acquire liberation
from cyclic existence during the intermediate states. If capable the
deceased will have trained in the distinctive practices of
consciousness transference during his or her lifetime, and then
directly apply the technique at the time of death. Otherwise, the
transference may be successfully applied on behalf of the deceased by
an accomplished practitioner. Diverse modes of consciousness
transference may be applied. Among them, the optimum modes are:
consciousness transference into the buddha-body of reality (chos
sku'i 'pho ba); consciousness transference into the buddha-body of
perfect resource (longs sku'i 'pho ba); and consciousness
transference into the buddha-body of emanation (sprul sku'i 'pho ba);
but there are also techniques enabling ordinary persons to transfer
consciousness into more favourable modes of rebirth (tha mal pa'i
'pho ba) whether they die gradually or suddenly. The technique of
consciousness transference may be taught in the context of the
preliminary practices (sngon 'gro) of meditation, as in the tradition
of 'Jigs-med gLing-pa, or in the context of the perfection stage
(sampannakrama) of meditation, as in the celebrated Six Yogas of
Nāropa (na ro chos drug), while, in the tradition of the Great
Perfection, the term 'great consciousness transference' or great
transformation ('pho ba chen po) refers to the actual attainment of
the rainbow-like buddha-body of form. All practitioners are advised
to undertake training in the technique of consciousness transference
in the course of their lives. Among the signs of successful training,
a minute hole will appear at the anterior fontanelle on the crown of
the head, enabling consciousness to depart from the central channel
should death occur. In this regard, it is important to recognise the
signs indicative of the onset of death as and when they arise, and to
apply the ritual antidotes which might avert these signs and postpone
death. Only when such signs constantly recur without the possibility
of being averted by ritual means, and death becomes imminent, should
the dying person take recourse to the transference of consciousness.
'pho ba [Tib.]
From RangjungYesheWiki
Phowa. Ejection of consciousness to a buddhafield at the moment of
death [RY]
1) transport/ transfer; 2) go; 3) death; 4) changing [emanating,
descent, ejection, dying, ejection of consciousness, change place,
shift the transformation at death into a higher realm of existence] [IW]
90 minute period, change, transform, transfer, transmigration, change
place, go, move oneself away, migrate, depart, shift, descent,
ejection, alter, SA spo ba, meditation on transferring the
consciousness, movement, cycle of breaths, force of the breath,
flowing of the breath [JV]
transference of consciousness; to transfer/ shift; isc. shift in
perspective/ paradigm shift [RB]
phowa, transference of consciousness [RY]
'pho ba, 'phos pa, 'pho ba intr. v.; the transference of
consciousness; to transfer, shift, transit, transpose;
transformation; changing, emanating, descent, ejection, dying,
ejection of consciousness, transferring, to change place, shift. the
transformation at death into a higher realm of existence. ft. of 'pho
ba; transference of consciousness; to transfer/ shift; to transmit;
to enter [the heart]; to be transferred [RY] rang rgyud la 'pho ba
that they may receive in themselves [RY]
ejection of consciousness A yogic practice in which consciousness
leaves the body. One of the yogas of Naropa [RY]
1) transport/ transfer; 2) go; 3) death; 4) changing [IW]
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Dec 29, 2006, at 3:10 AM, cardemaister wrote:
40. By conquering the current called Udana the Yogi does not
sink in
water or in swamps, he can walk on thorns etc., and can, die at
will.
Udana is the name of the nerve current that governs the lungs
and all
the upper parts of the body, and when he is master of it, he
becomes
light in weight. He does not sink in water; he can walk on
thorns and
sword blades, and stand in fire, and can depart this life
whenever he
likes.
utkrAnti f. stepping up to VS. S3Br. ; going out ; passing
away ,
dying Katha1s.
It's a common yogic term. The term used when one is initated into
conscious transference is saMkrAnti: transference. The Tibetans
call it
Consciousness Transference
From RangjungYesheWiki
Consciousness Transference ('pho ba)
The process of the transference of consciousness (Skt.
saá¹krÄnti)
at the moment of death enables the deceased to acquire liberation
from cyclic existence during the intermediate states. If capable
the
deceased will have trained in the distinctive practices of
consciousness transference during his or her lifetime, and then
directly apply the technique at the time of death. Otherwise, the
transference may be successfully applied on behalf of the deceased
by
an accomplished practitioner. Diverse modes of consciousness
transference may be applied. Among them, the optimum modes are:
consciousness transference into the buddha-body of reality (chos
sku'i 'pho ba); consciousness transference into the buddha-body
of
perfect resource (longs sku'i 'pho ba); and consciousness
transference into the buddha-body of emanation (sprul sku'i 'pho
ba);
but there are also techniques enabling ordinary persons to
transfer
consciousness into more favourable modes of rebirth (tha mal pa'i
'pho ba) whether they die gradually or suddenly. The technique of
consciousness transference may be taught in the context of the
preliminary practices (sngon 'gro) of meditation, as in the
tradition
of 'Jigs-med gLing-pa, or in the context of the perfection stage
(sampannakrama) of meditation, as in the celebrated Six Yogas of
NÄropa (na ro chos drug), while, in the tradition of the Great
Perfection, the term 'great consciousness transference' or great
transformation ('pho ba chen po) refers to the actual attainment
of
the rainbow-like buddha-body of form. All practitioners are
advised
to undertake training in the technique of consciousness
transference
in the course of their lives. Among the signs of successful
training,
a minute hole will appear at the anterior fontanelle on the crown
of
the head, enabling consciousness to depart from the central
channel
should death occur. In this regard, it is important to recognise
the
signs indicative of the onset of death as and when they arise, and
to
apply the ritual antidotes which might avert these signs and
postpone
death. Only when such signs constantly recur without the
possibility
of being averted by ritual means, and death becomes imminent,
should
the dying person take recourse to the transference of
consciousness.
'pho ba [Tib.]
From RangjungYesheWiki
Phowa. Ejection of consciousness to a buddhafield at the moment
of
death [RY]
1) transport/ transfer; 2) go; 3) death; 4) changing [emanating,
descent, ejection, dying, ejection of consciousness, change
place,
shift the transformation at death into a higher realm of
existence] [IW]
90 minute period, change, transform, transfer, transmigration,
change
place, go, move oneself away, migrate, depart, shift, descent,
ejection, alter, SA spo ba, meditation on transferring the
consciousness, movement, cycle of breaths, force of the breath,
flowing of the breath [JV]
transference of consciousness; to transfer/ shift; isc. shift in
perspective/ paradigm shift [RB]
phowa, transference of consciousness [RY]
'pho ba, 'phos pa, 'pho ba intr. v.; the transference of
consciousness; to transfer, shift, transit, transpose;
transformation; changing, emanating, descent, ejection, dying,
ejection of consciousness, transferring, to change place, shift.
the
transformation at death into a higher realm of existence. ft.
of 'pho
ba; transference of consciousness; to transfer/ shift; to
transmit;
to enter [the heart]; to be transferred [RY] rang rgyud la 'pho
ba
that they may receive in themselves [RY]
ejection of consciousness A yogic practice in which consciousness
leaves the body. One of the yogas of Naropa [RY]
1) transport/ transfer; 2) go; 3) death; 4) changing [IW]
This is all interesting as an elucidation of a technique or
techniques to practice near or at the time of death, but I cannot
think of a reason to do them.
I suppose it is like training
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] So in many ways, forgetting one's past lives may actually be more valuable in the long run because one has the ability to have a fresh start, without attachment for past actions that -- after all -- did nothing more than land us here in the present with pretty much the same karma and pretty much the same set of samskaras that we had before. :-) From MMY's perspective, none of the sidhis has any practical value beyond their ability to help stabilize samadhi and if you truely master one sidhi, you master tham all (gain enlightenment), so worrying about a diamond mine is STILL only a partial-value endeavor. Extending the fort analogy: it may be of use to run patrols out to the diamond mine or gold mine, but unless you capture the fort, you STILL don't have full control of any part of the territory.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As anyone reading this is back walking around in a body, where did you go the last time you dropped your body? Florida. I was obviously sold a bill of goods by some unscrupulous travel agent in the Bardo, who led me to expect something more there than I found. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Where do the unawakened go when they die?
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Fischer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As anyone reading this is back walking around in a body, where did you go the last time you dropped your body? One of Patanjali's sutras not taught by the TMO is for knowing past lives, so this knowledge is certainly doable, and the Vedic lit is full of sages who recalled all their past lives. Apparently going to hell first (and heaven afterwards, before rebirth on earth) when you die is a good thing, as it means that your life was predominately good -- people who go to heaven first spend a longer time in hell (s) ): 18. By perceiving the impressions, (comes) the knowledge of past life. Each experience that we have, comes in the form of a wave in the Chitta, and this subsides and becomes finer and finer, but is never lost. It remains there in minute form, and if we can bring this wave up again, it becomes memory. So, if the Yogi can make a Samyama on these past impressions in the mind, he will begin to remember all his past lives. http://www.yoga-age.com/sutras/pata3.html
