[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, BTW, note how carefully Barry avoided my point. Nobody really cares, Judy. And that's why things are in such a mess today, including with the TMO. When casual dishonesty is simply accepted as not worth bothering about, it lays the groundwork for serious dishonesty to be ignored as well. And Judy's an old windbag who doesn't understand that her defintion of 'dishonesty' is 'anything that'll allow me to argue with someone in public.' No *wonder* nobody really cares. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why are you obsessed with Barry? I'm not. However, his recent acting out has gotten under my skin a bit, so you could say I'm abscessed with Barry. :-) Penicillin will clear that right up... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. We should be so lucky... Guffaw. The USSR was a primary sponsor of the plane-watching societies of ENgland when I was in the USAF. To suggest that the CIA/KGB/FBI/etc wouldn't be carefully looking into any fast-growing organization headquartered in another country is to have blinders on. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. We should be so lucky... If someone bothers to do a FOI search on the TMO and they turn up nothing, I will be greatly surprised. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...and the evidence that the CIA did indeed infiltrate the TMO is? Haven't you been paying attention? The evidence is that these TBs feel more important if the CIA was persecuting the cult they were involved with, and less important if it wasn't. Q.E.D. Precisely. Rajneesh also thought he was being infiltrated by the CIA. Likely the FBI given all the laws his organization bent with Rancho rajneesh. My point was that Rajneesh was doing the whole The CIA has infiltrated us schtick in an attempt to cast blame on some unknown entity in order to avoid taking any blame himself for the failings of his organisation. That's another reason I find it SO distasteful that MMY has taken up that same rant: it puts him in the same camp as any number of disreputable individuals. Since 1978 (since, roughly, the public introduction of the flying technique) the TMO has been on a downward spiral. It had, up to then, been on an incredible, unprecedented upward surge. Although MMY is 100% responsible for the upward surge and popularity of TM until then, he is, equally, 100% responsible for the downward turn. Had NOTHING to do with the CIA. It had to do with his own bad choices (I will gladly list them upon request but you've all heard my rant on this before). Gosh, even if the CIA HAD infiltrated our Movement, what could they possibly have done to hurt it that MMY didn't do himself? Fed MMY's paranoia? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. We should be so lucky... Guffaw. The USSR was a primary sponsor of the plane-watching societies of ENgland when I was in the USAF. To suggest that the CIA/KGB/FBI/etc wouldn't be carefully looking into any fast-growing organization headquartered in another country is to have blinders on. I'm sure they took a hard look at the TMO, chuckled, filed some reports, and then moved on. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) When did the CIA get forbidden to dabble in domestic affairs? Was it before Kennedy or after? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [...] If this were the late '70s or early '80s, wouldn't ya think that the TMO would be distancing themselves from such an artiste? Now don't get me wrong; I LOVED Mulholland Drive and especially the Lesbian scenes (hey, who doesn't love lesbians). But, hey, come on! This is as weird or as unusual as anything Kaufman did... Dare I point out that we live in a post-9/11 reality where up is down, etc? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sure they took a hard look at the TMO, chuckled, filed some reports, and then moved on. If there was ever any truth in the CIA interest in TM, I'm sure that description pretty much covers it. However, I would change 'chuckled' to 'laughed them- selves silly.' Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) When did the CIA get forbidden to dabble in domestic affairs? Was it before Kennedy or after? The CIA has *always* been forbidden to work within the United States. It's part of the organization's charter. I thought everyone knew this. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did the CIA get forbidden to dabble in domestic affairs? Was it before Kennedy or after? The CIA has *always* been forbidden to work on investi- gations that are centered within the United States. It's part of the organization's charter. I thought everyone knew this. There was always a clear division of authority between the FBI (domestic investigations) and the CIA (foreign investigations). One of the things that liberals have always been most upset about is the blurring of these responsibilities. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Barry has a bee under his bonnet on this issue because it gives him yet another opportunity to denigrate the TMO and its TBs. Which is, itself, just another form of fundamentalist TBism. Yeah, or TNBism, True Nonbelieverism. Knee-jerk-wise, black-and-white-no-shades-of-gray-wise, it's indistinguishable from TBism. Hey, you guys believe what you want. Me, I'm just fascinated by the self-importance thang in *any* spiritual tradition. You should hear me lay into ex-Rama students who are still whining about being persecuted by the anti-cult groups. In their case, it *was* persecution, legitimate persecution, complete with blacklists so that people couldn't get jobs, people getting kidnapped by deprogrammers, and entire 'strike groups' out there monitoring the group's activities so that they could fuck with them. But IMO the *enduring* fascination with such things is all about the self importance of the students themselves, and the inability to let go of these things that made them feel important at the time. Feeling persecuted is an important part of *many* spiritual trips; the more persecuted the followers can be made to feel, the stronger and tighter the TB tradition they can build. *That* is my interest in all of this. Except that most of the folks who have been talking about it here are insisting persecution was *not* involved. TM and its particular manifestation of the general phenomenon, or 'bashing TM' is not. That you guys believe it is is just more self importance. :-) :-) :-) Uh-huh. Eleven years' worth of determined TM-bashing from you on alt.m.t, plus the same here ever since you signed on, strongly suggest otherwise. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, BTW, note how carefully Barry avoided my point. Nobody really cares, Judy. And that's why things are in such a mess today, including with the TMO. When casual dishonesty is simply accepted as not worth bothering about, it lays the groundwork for serious dishonesty to be ignored as well. And Judy's an old windbag who doesn't understand that her defintion of 'dishonesty' is 'anything that'll allow me to argue with someone in public.' No *wonder* nobody really cares. :-) Actually I much prefer discussion to argument. But discussion with someone who is consistently intellectually (*and* factually) dishonest--such as yourself--is impossible. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When did the CIA get forbidden to dabble in domestic affairs? Was it before Kennedy or after? The CIA has *always* been forbidden to work on investi- gations that are centered within the United States. It's part of the organization's charter. I thought everyone knew this. There was always a clear division of authority between the FBI (domestic investigations) and the CIA (foreign investigations). One of the things that liberals have always been most upset about is the blurring of these responsibilities. Always been most upset about? But in a previous post, you wrote: You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. Ooopsie. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
And Judy's an old windbag who doesn't understand that her defintion of 'dishonesty' is 'anything that'll allow me to argue with someone in public.' No *wonder* nobody really cares. :-) Actually I much prefer discussion to argument. But discussion with someone who is consistently intellectually (*and* factually) dishonest--such as yourself--is impossible. Well, since you say that discussion is impossible, and I refuse to argue with you, that kinda leaves shutting the fuck up and leaving me alone, doesn't it? Unless, of course, your real goal here, as I have suggested since you first arrived, is to cyberstalk both Vaj and I and attempt over and over and over, ad infinitum, to get other people to believe about us the things *you* want them to believe about us. In a pleasant person such an obsession would be merely amusing; in an unpleasant one it's just plain tacky. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And Judy's an old windbag who doesn't understand that her defintion of 'dishonesty' is 'anything that'll allow me to argue with someone in public.' No *wonder* nobody really cares. :-) Actually I much prefer discussion to argument. But discussion with someone who is consistently intellectually (*and* factually) dishonest--such as yourself--is impossible. Well, since you say that discussion is impossible, and I refuse to argue with you You mean, like you're doing now? , that kinda leaves shutting the fuck up and leaving me alone, doesn't it? Unless, of course, your real goal here, as I have suggested since you first arrived, is to cyberstalk both Vaj and I and attempt over and over and over, ad infinitum, to get other people to believe about us the things *you* want them to believe about us. I'm sure you need to believe you're so important that I would come over from alt.m.t just to persecute you. In a pleasant person such an obsession would be merely amusing; in an unpleasant one it's just plain tacky. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...and the evidence that the CIA did indeed infiltrate the TMO is? Haven't you been paying attention? The evidence is that these TBs feel more important if the CIA was persecuting the cult they were involved with, and less important if it wasn't. Q.E.D. Precisely. Rajneesh also thought he was being infiltrated by the CIA. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, bbrigante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/26/05 6:55 PM, bbrigante at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *** Prez Carter (he of the faith-healing sister who was himself an evangelical Christian: http://www.alternet.org/story/18378/ ) was clearly an enemy of the TMO, so it's not much of a stretch to understand that he probably ordered the CIA to keep an eye on or destabilize the movement -- the CIA does what the Prez wants, from invading Cuba in the Bay of Pigs to destabilizing Chile, and Carter's animus towards the TMO is documented well enough in his meeting with Maharishi in the Georgia governor's office. According to Dr. Margaret Brenman-Gibson, who had a close friend in Carter's inner circle, he vowed privately while campaigning that if elected, he would do everything in his power to thwart the TMO. Margaret was married to the playwright William Gibson (The Miracle Worker) and was a psychiatrist who often spoke at TM conferences in the 70's. *** Gibson wrote that book A season in Heaven about his experiences on a TM teacher course: http://www-tech.mit.edu/archives/VOL_095/TECH_V095_S0087_P008.txt A Season in Heaven, William Gibson, Atheneum, 1974, 182 pages, $6.95 William Gibson subtitles his work, being the log of an expedition after that legendary beast, cosmic consciousness, Within that subtitle lie both the strength and the weakness of the book. A Season in Heaven is well described as a log. It is a thorough description of the events, and more importantly of Gibson's reflections on those events, during his stay at Maharishi International University in Spain. He had come to Spain with his 'family to' visit his son studying Transcendental Meditation under the Maharishi; and he decided to stay and study himself. ...read it about 25 years ago and enjoyed it...thought it to be the best TM book I've ever read... I agree. It was fun having been there and reading about the same experiences through his eyes. He was a good guy. Good ironic sense of humor. He'd fit well in FFL! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM --- -~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/26/05 8:52 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Par for the course during that time. Why do you think it was so easy to pay off the Spanish officials? It was the common thing to do. Probably still is. Even worse in India. Can't compare INdia with Spain since I've never been there, but when I was in Spain in the early 80's, they had uniformed national police on every major street corner in downtown Madrid, armed with sub-machine guns in order to discourage riots over the closing of the national banks. Very crazy legal/financial system at that time. It may or may not have improved since then. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/26/05 7:35 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prez Carter (he of the faith-healing sister who was himself an evangelical Christian: http://www.alternet.org/story/18378/ ) was clearly an enemy of the TMO, so it's not much of a stretch to understand that he probably ordered the CIA to keep an eye on or destabilize the movement -- the CIA does what the Prez wants, from invading Cuba in the Bay of Pigs to destabilizing Chile, and Carter's animus towards the TMO is documented well enough in his meeting with Maharishi in the Georgia governor's office. ...and the evidence that the CIA did indeed infiltrate the TMO is? None that I'm privy to. Just that Maharishi kept complaining that they were doing so, and claiming that there were CIA among those around him. There was even a question on a course application about whether you work or had worked for the CIA. Now THAT'S hilarious! Grounds for dismissal if you're found to be lying... It would work with FBI types since they were never above the law. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/26/05 12:30 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mr friend from Canada (MIU graduate) was in Guyana at the time of Jonestown (he was teaching TM) and, ironically, the government there thought he and the other TM teachers were CIA! Shortly AFTER Jonestown, Maharishi sent David Orme-Johnson and some others to Guyana to ask the government there to set up a Sidhaland. The government officials couldn't believe they were being asked this, in light of what had just happened. I recall MMY's comment: if they can't tell the difference between us and Jim Jones they don't deserve us. A non-TMing friend working as PR person for the ROman Catholic church laughed at that but commented that it was the right attitude to take. Wait a sec there, Spare Egg, you have a friend that is a PR person for the Holy Roman Catholic Church? Wow, I suppose he is really earning his money THESE days, eh? In Tucson, AZ no less. VERY stressful job, let me tell you. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And we all know the story of Leon Weiner actually getting busted trying to carry cash from Mallorca to Switzerland. And Billy and Shannon paying off the Spanish officials to get him out. Par for the course during that time. Why do you think it was so easy to pay off the Spanish officials? It was the common thing to do. I think that the point about questionable ethics and how pervasive they were in the TMO and how well the TBs learned them is made, thank you... You were involved in transporting money in and out of Spain during that time? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...and the evidence that the CIA did indeed infiltrate the TMO is? Haven't you been paying attention? The evidence is that these TBs feel more important if the CIA was persecuting the cult they were involved with, and less important if it wasn't. Q.E.D. Precisely. Rajneesh also thought he was being infiltrated by the CIA. Likely the FBI given all the laws his organization bent with Rancho rajneesh. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. How about Mossad? ;-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: paying off the Spanish officials to get him out. Par for the course during that time. Why do you think it was so easy to pay off the Spanish officials? It was the common thing to do. I think that the point about questionable ethics and how pervasive they were in the TMO and how well the TBs learned them is made, thank you... You were involved in transporting money in and out of Spain during that time? I thought I made it clear that I was *not* involved with smuggling cash for the TM movement. My comment was about your statement, It was the common thing to do. When a person is reduced to using that argu- ment, the question of whether they have ethics or not is pretty much settled. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: paying off the Spanish officials to get him out. Par for the course during that time. Why do you think it was so easy to pay off the Spanish officials? It was the common thing to do. I think that the point about questionable ethics and how pervasive they were in the TMO and how well the TBs learned them is made, thank you... You were involved in transporting money in and out of Spain during that time? I thought I made it clear that I was *not* involved with smuggling cash for the TM movement. My comment was about your statement, It was the common thing to do. When a person is reduced to using that argu- ment, the question of whether they have ethics or not is pretty much settled. Just to clarify, this isn't a statement about you per se but about the nature of ethics. IMO, unethical behavior is almost *defined* by the use of It's just how things are done, or Everybody does it or They do it, too. Ethics are about doing the right thing no matter what anyone else does. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: paying off the Spanish officials to get him out. Par for the course during that time. Why do you think it was so easy to pay off the Spanish officials? It was the common thing to do. I think that the point about questionable ethics and how pervasive they were in the TMO and how well the TBs learned them is made, thank you... You were involved in transporting money in and out of Spain during that time? I thought I made it clear that I was *not* involved with smuggling cash for the TM movement. My comment was about your statement, It was the common thing to do. When a person is reduced to using that argu- ment, the question of whether they have ethics or not is pretty much settled. Just to clarify, this isn't a statement about you per se but about the nature of ethics. IMO, unethical behavior is almost *defined* by the use of It's just how things are done, or Everybody does it or They do it, too. Ethics are about doing the right thing no matter what anyone else does. Heh. But if everyone else does it, is it unethical, by definition? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: paying off the Spanish officials to get him out. Par for the course during that time. Why do you think it was so easy to pay off the Spanish officials? It was the common thing to do. I think that the point about questionable ethics and how pervasive they were in the TMO and how well the TBs learned them is made, thank you... You were involved in transporting money in and out of Spain during that time? I thought I made it clear that I was *not* involved with smuggling cash for the TM movement. My comment was about your statement, It was the common thing to do. When a person is reduced to using that argu- ment, the question of whether they have ethics or not is pretty much settled. Er,nope. It just means that its futile to single out a single organization or person for criticism when everyone else is doing it too. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. How about Mossad? ;-) Beyond certainty. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just to clarify, this isn't a statement about you per se but about the nature of ethics. IMO, unethical behavior is almost *defined* by the use of It's just how things are done, or Everybody does it or They do it, too. Ethics are about doing the right thing no matter what anyone else does. Heh. But if everyone else does it, is it unethical, by definition? If you have to ask, you need a course in ethics. Replace the word 'it' above with a few other words to answer your own question. If 'it' = 'theft' is 'it' unethical? If 'it' = 'murder' is 'it' unethical no matter how many people do it? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Er,nope. It just means that its futile to single out a single organization or person for criticism when everyone else is doing it too. You really *don't* understand the concept of ethics, do you? :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just to clarify, this isn't a statement about you per se but about the nature of ethics. IMO, unethical behavior is almost *defined* by the use of It's just how things are done, or Everybody does it or They do it, too. Ethics are about doing the right thing no matter what anyone else does. Heh. But if everyone else does it, is it unethical, by definition? If you have to ask, you need a course in ethics. Replace the word 'it' above with a few other words to answer your own question. If 'it' = 'theft' is 'it' unethical? If 'it' = 'murder' is 'it' unethical no matter how many people do it? In other words, right and wrong are absolutes? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just to clarify, this isn't a statement about you per se but about the nature of ethics. IMO, unethical behavior is almost *defined* by the use of It's just how things are done, or Everybody does it or They do it, too. Ethics are about doing the right thing no matter what anyone else does. Heh. But if everyone else does it, is it unethical, by definition? If you have to ask, you need a course in ethics. Replace the word 'it' above with a few other words to answer your own question. If 'it' = 'theft' is 'it' unethical? If 'it' = 'murder' is 'it' unethical no matter how many people do it? Keyword is everyone. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Er,nope. It just means that its futile to single out a single organization or person for criticism when everyone else is doing it too. You really *don't* understand the concept of ethics, do you? :-) Yeah, I guess right and wrong *are* absolutes in your perspective. So where do these absolutes come from? Who made these determinations as to what is right and what is wrong for all people for all time? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Er,nope. It just means that its futile to single out a single organization or person for criticism when everyone else is doing it too. You really *don't* understand the concept of ethics, do you? :-) IF everyone is doing it, than, by most definitions of ethics that I could find online, it is ethical. Legal is not the same as ethical. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/26/05 7:35 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prez Carter (he of the faith-healing sister who was himself an evangelical Christian: http://www.alternet.org/story/18378/ ) was clearly an enemy of the TMO, so it's not much of a stretch to understand that he probably ordered the CIA to keep an eye on or destabilize the movement -- the CIA does what the Prez wants, from invading Cuba in the Bay of Pigs to destabilizing Chile, and Carter's animus towards the TMO is documented well enough in his meeting with Maharishi in the Georgia governor's office. Carter's new book on values has evangelicals up in arms as it contradicts all they preach. Carter is a devout christian but in a humanistic-good works not evangelical way. Of all the presidents in the past 40 yrs, carter is probably the least likely to want to spy on the tmo. PS - your history on bay of pigs is backwards - the CIA tried to trick kennedy into a full scale invasion of cuba via their own bay of pigs plan, then the CIA was furious when he didn't fall into the trap and left the initial force stranded. I'd like to see the text of the meeting in Georgia - I remember local TBs saying how antagonistic (animus is a jungian psychological term) larry king was towards mmy on his show a few yrs back, when king actually didn't ask one hard question the whole night. In fact I haven't heard anyone ask mmy a hard question in decades. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: paying off the Spanish officials to get him out. Par for the course during that time. Why do you think it was so easy to pay off the Spanish officials? It was the common thing to do. I think that the point about questionable ethics and how pervasive they were in the TMO and how well the TBs learned them is made, thank you... You were involved in transporting money in and out of Spain during that time? I thought I made it clear that I was *not* involved with smuggling cash for the TM movement. My comment was about your statement, It was the common thing to do. When a person is reduced to using that argu- ment, the question of whether they have ethics or not is pretty much settled. Just to clarify, this isn't a statement about you per se but about the nature of ethics. IMO, unethical behavior is almost *defined* by the use of It's just how things are done, or Everybody does it or They do it, too. Ethics are about doing the right thing no matter what anyone else does. Heh. But if everyone else does it, is it unethical, by definition? Barry, Even though my ethics prof practiced TM (1972) (and had a PHDivinity..) he even managed to teach me enough to understand this... :-) JohnY (miss his philosophy classes too..) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...and the evidence that the CIA did indeed infiltrate the TMO is? Haven't you been paying attention? The evidence is that these TBs feel more important if the CIA was persecuting the cult they were involved with, and less important if it wasn't. Q.E.D. Precisely. Rajneesh also thought he was being infiltrated by the CIA. Likely the FBI given all the laws his organization bent with Rancho rajneesh. My point was that Rajneesh was doing the whole The CIA has infiltrated us schtick in an attempt to cast blame on some unknown entity in order to avoid taking any blame himself for the failings of his organisation. That's another reason I find it SO distasteful that MMY has taken up that same rant: it puts him in the same camp as any number of disreputable individuals. Since 1978 (since, roughly, the public introduction of the flying technique) the TMO has been on a downward spiral. It had, up to then, been on an incredible, unprecedented upward surge. Although MMY is 100% responsible for the upward surge and popularity of TM until then, he is, equally, 100% responsible for the downward turn. Had NOTHING to do with the CIA. It had to do with his own bad choices (I will gladly list them upon request but you've all heard my rant on this before). Gosh, even if the CIA HAD infiltrated our Movement, what could they possibly have done to hurt it that MMY didn't do himself? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. We should be so lucky... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. We should be so lucky... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. Plus - I've met 4 or 5 certifiable paranoid psychotics in my life - all them felt the CIA was involved in their life somehow. Now if you think the NSA is spying on you since W came into office, then you're probably not crazy, just left-wing. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snipp] My point was that Rajneesh was doing the whole The CIA has infiltrated us schtick in an attempt to cast blame on some unknown entity in order to avoid taking any blame himself for the failings of his organisation. That's another reason I find it SO distasteful that MMY has taken up that same rant: it puts him in the same camp as any number of disreputable individuals. Since 1978 (since, roughly, the public introduction of the flying technique) the TMO has been on a downward spiral. It had, up to then, been on an incredible, unprecedented upward surge. Although MMY is 100% responsible for the upward surge and popularity of TM until then, he is, equally, 100% responsible for the downward turn. Had NOTHING to do with the CIA. It had to do with his own bad choices (I will gladly list them upon request but you've all heard my rant on this before). Gosh, even if the CIA HAD infiltrated our Movement, what could they possibly have done to hurt it that MMY didn't do himself? From where I sit this is one of the most telling of observations about Mahesh. Thank you. When he ran out of money, he simply invented something. He had gotten the guru gig of chumming the waters down so well, he could depend upon the gullible/TBs/faithful/greedy to bite/pay. When the US didn't bite after 9/11, suddenly there was a millionaires' course. Now, there's rumour of one last technique. I suppose, soon, there will be some sort of offering by subscription, sort of like a life-insurance policy ... when you've paid all the premiums, then you can pay the course fee (and you own airfair, of course) and you will get to listen to the special videotape. Mahesh tended to copy the people he put down; but he did it with his own special flair for creativity. Yet, where was his creativity without the people he put down and copied? My first encounter with this was at Estes Park: he had so many revelations from and about the Rig Veda, yet he could not have done this without the dictionaries and gloss from his coterie of translators who told him by night what the Rig Veda said. Then there was his familiarity with Yogananda's various techniques, courtesy of one of our old-time teachers who had been a Yogananda devotee and spent much time telling Mahesh all the secrets. This showed up in the A of E techniques and (from what I have been told) the 6-month courses that expanded on the A of E techniques. Mahesh saw L. Ron Hubbard as a competitor and suddently we began to see, after the International Staff became passé, the 108 and then the MIU/MUM/MERU heirarchies and Purusha and Mother Divine. Mahesh has said in Seelisberg that if he'd had a few good people like L. Ron Hubbard, he would have accomplished his world plan long ago. Always blaming others, the environment, governments, CIA, lack of money. His list was seemingly endless. I appreciate your insight, Shemp. Too bad it's been so long ago and I have have forgotten so many little, telling things. But the big picture is that Mahesh is the worst thing that ever happened to TM. I guess that what he said about Lillian Rosen, the AT lady, applied to anyone who showed competence around him and explains why he had to get rid of them and put utter dolts in their place: when people give advanced techniques, others might see them as gurus. With Lillian, I know I am taking no chances. Mahesh, the poster boy for narcissism and greed. How sad for TM that something that might have, with a competent leader, turned out to be beneficial instead devolved into an organization that is only a butt to kick. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. We should be so lucky... When it was suggested to Mahesh that in addition to sending teachers to India to teach SCI (I made a joke about carrying coals to Newcastle, but no one got it), we should also send teachers to China, Mahesh was instantly very negative on the idea. He said Mao might steal TM. What could possibly have been simple than getting on a TTC in the early 70's. If anyone wanted to know the secrets s/he sould go on a TTC ant presto. Any group could infiltrate the TMO. Mahesh suffered from an insatiable grandiosity and simply fed on his own delusion that he was so magnificient that anyone important must be after his secrets of which he was such a great purveyor. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. We should be so lucky... When it was suggested to Mahesh that in addition to sending teachers to India to teach SCI (I made a joke about carrying coals to Newcastle, but no one got it), we should also send teachers to China, Mahesh was instantly very negative on the idea. He said Mao might steal TM. What could possibly have been simple than getting on a TTC in the early 70's. If anyone wanted to know the secrets s/he sould go on a TTC ant presto. Any group could infiltrate the TMO. Mahesh suffered from an insatiable grandiosity and simply fed on his own delusion that he was so magnificient that anyone important must be after his secrets of which he was such a great purveyor. I left out something: 'folie a deux is the situation where a paranoid delusional system appears to have developed in a person as a result of a close relationship with another person who has an established and similar delusional system' - from GPNotebook. While this is generally rare, Mahesh managed on TTC's to instil a sense of how special his teachers were in the newbees. New teachers and old ones as well, tended to participate in Mahesh's worldview because they had taken it on when they were rounding and very impressionable. It's effective, incidious, highly unethical and smacks of brainwashing in the worst usages of that term. But what the hey, Mahesh needed to feed his narcissism what the hell did he care about some stupid ethics. After all, he's the one who said the lawyers will make it legal. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. Except that, as I noted a few posts back, in the early '70s virtually everyone who didn't explicitly align themselves with the U.S. government suspected they were being spied on by the CIA. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. Plus - I've met 4 or 5 certifiable paranoid psychotics in my life - all them felt the CIA was involved in their life somehow. Now if you think the NSA is spying on you since W came into office, then you're probably not crazy, just left-wing. What's more paranoid? Seeing CIA infiltrators everywhere? Or, seeing True Believers everywhere? Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. Except that, as I noted a few posts back, in the early '70s virtually everyone who didn't explicitly align themselves with the U.S. government suspected they were being spied on by the CIA. Virtually everyone? You have a strange memory. I lived through those times, and never had any suspicion that I was being investigated by the CIA. Local police, yeah, but the CIA? That would have struck us as delusions of grandeur even then. I guess you ran with a crowd who had more out-of- control egos. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. Plus - I've met 4 or 5 certifiable paranoid psychotics in my life - all them felt the CIA was involved in their life somehow. And you conclude from this...what, exactly? Now if you think the NSA is spying on you since W came into office, then you're probably not crazy, just left-wing. Until fairly recently, that was the case if you thought the CIA was spying on you. Crazy people are crazy because they're crazy, not because they think the CIA is spying on them. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Wanting to continue to believe that TMers were so important that the CIA was after them transcends True Believerism. That is, even those who have rejected the TM trip still want to believe they were important. In other words, I suspect that the CIA, like 95% of the world's population, probably was unaware that something called TM even existed. The desire to believe otherwise is in the minds of those who thought TM was important and still want to think that, even if they're not involved with it any more. It's just an opinion... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. Except that, as I noted a few posts back, in the early '70s virtually everyone who didn't explicitly align themselves with the U.S. government suspected they were being spied on by the CIA. Virtually everyone? You have a strange memory. I lived through those times, and never had any suspicion that I was being investigated by the CIA. Local police, yeah, but the CIA? Look up virtually in Mr. Dictionary, then get back to me, OK? That would have struck us as delusions of grandeur even then. I guess you ran with a crowd who had more out-of- control egos. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Wanting to continue to believe that TMers were so important that the CIA was after them transcends True Believerism. That is, even those who have rejected the TM trip still want to believe they were important. Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. In other words, I suspect that the CIA, like 95% of the world's population, probably was unaware that something called TM even existed. The desire to believe otherwise is in the minds of those who thought TM was important and still want to think that, even if they're not involved with it any more. It was recently revealed that the Defense Department had compiled a list of groups it considered threats. Among them were a Quaker group and a vegan group. When *government* paranoia goes off the charts, as it did in the Nixon administration and now with the Bush administration, to be spied on by the government is a symptom of that paranoia, not of the importance of those being spied on. It's just an opinion... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, gerbal88 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ingegerd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about KGB. Did MMY accept that they were in the TMO. I do not know if they was or not. I only heard rumours. Ingegerd Almost certainly they were. Ooooh. How sinister. How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. We should be so lucky... When it was suggested to Mahesh that in addition to sending teachers to India to teach SCI (I made a joke about carrying coals to Newcastle, but no one got it), we should also send teachers to China, Mahesh was instantly very negative on the idea. He said Mao might steal TM. What could possibly have been simple than getting on a TTC in the early 70's. If anyone wanted to know the secrets s/he sould go on a TTC ant presto. Any group could infiltrate the TMO. Mahesh suffered from an insatiable grandiosity and simply fed on his own delusion that he was so magnificient that anyone important must be after his secrets of which he was such a great purveyor. I left out something: 'folie a deux is the situation where a paranoid delusional system appears to have developed in a person as a result of a close relationship with another person who has an established and similar delusional system' - from GPNotebook. While this is generally rare, Mahesh managed on TTC's to instil a sense of how special his teachers were in the newbees. New teachers and old ones as well, tended to participate in Mahesh's worldview because they had taken it on when they were rounding and very impressionable. It's effective, incidious, highly unethical and smacks of brainwashing in the worst usages of that term. But what the hey, Mahesh needed to feed his narcissism what the hell did he care about some stupid ethics. After all, he's the one who said the lawyers will make it legal. ...and know what? I certainly wouldn't mind if all the organisational schemes worked. I think TM is the greatest thing since sliced bread...and if training mindless robotrons who bought into a TMO cult would have effectively propagated this technique, I would be all for it. But it didn't work. And the schemes -- some of them -- were dishonest and embarassing. And it simply wasn't necessary. MMY did a great, great thing: he brought out to the world this simple and incredibly effective technique of self-development that virtually any and all could do and benefit from. He packaged it so that belief or joining a religion wasn't necessary to do it. He even challenged the scientific community to confirm and document it's effects. No one had ever done all that before. You know the old saying: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well, MMY and the TMO circa '77 went WAY beyond fixing what wasn't broken. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Wanting to continue to believe that TMers were so important that the CIA was after them transcends True Believerism. That is, even those who have rejected the TM trip still want to believe they were important. Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. In other words, I suspect that the CIA, like 95% of the world's population, probably was unaware that something called TM even existed. The desire to believe otherwise is in the minds of those who thought TM was important and still want to think that, even if they're not involved with it any more. It was recently revealed that the Defense Department had compiled a list of groups it considered threats. Among them were a Quaker group and a vegan group. When *government* paranoia goes off the charts, as it did in the Nixon administration and now with the Bush administration, to be spied on by the government is a symptom of that paranoia, not of the importance of those being spied on. I think it's possible the CIA checked out the TMO in the 70s at the height of its influence - they check out lots of groups. The issue is whether the CIA conducted a large-scale infiltration with the purpose of destroying the TMO, as MMY claims, happened. That's getting into tinfoil hat territory I think. Plus at least 1 of the people MMY identified as CIA - Roy Bachmeyer - clearly wasn't. How many others did he point out?? Do any of them make any sense, what was that all about? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Wanting to continue to believe that TMers were so important that the CIA was after them transcends True Believerism. That is, even those who have rejected the TM trip still want to believe they were important. In other words, I suspect that the CIA, like 95% of the world's population, probably was unaware that something called TM even existed. The desire to believe otherwise is in the minds of those who thought TM was important and still want to think that, even if they're not involved with it any more. It's just an opinion... I had the same experience working in a political organsation about 15 years ago. People that were involved in it would get SO caught up with the ideas and concepts and conviction that would they were doing was so important that on several different occasions I was told by several different people that we had to be careful because our phones were being tapped by the RCMP. Oh, we should have BEEN so important that the RCMP was interested in what we were doing! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How important we must be that the CIA and the KGB bothered with our little spiritual group...I guess we must have been on to something SO earth-shattering that these organisations took an interest in us. Yup. That's exactly my take on all this as well. The clinging to the notion that TM (and by extension, TMers) were important enough to spy on is nothing but self importance. Except that, as I noted a few posts back, in the early '70s virtually everyone who didn't explicitly align themselves with the U.S. government suspected they were being spied on by the CIA. Virtually everyone? You have a strange memory. I lived through those times, and never had any suspicion that I was being investigated by the CIA. Local police, yeah, but the CIA? Look up virtually in Mr. Dictionary, then get back to me, OK? Is Mr. Dictionary located next to Mr. Thesaurus? That would have struck us as delusions of grandeur even then. I guess you ran with a crowd who had more out-of- control egos. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Wanting to continue to believe that TMers were so important that the CIA was after them transcends True Believerism. That is, even those who have rejected the TM trip still want to believe they were important. Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. In other words, I suspect that the CIA, like 95% of the world's population, probably was unaware that something called TM even existed. The desire to believe otherwise is in the minds of those who thought TM was important and still want to think that, even if they're not involved with it any more. It was recently revealed that the Defense Department had compiled a list of groups it considered threats. Among them were a Quaker group and a vegan group. One of the Hollywood Ten, Dalton Trumbo (author of Johnny got his gun), during the 1940s voluntarily provided to the FBI the names and addresses of Quakers who contacted him to provide him moral support during the '30s while he was a member of the Communist Party and was anti-war (this was during the time that Trumbo's master -- Joseph Stalin -- had aligned himself with Adolf Hitler and all the communists in the US all of a sudden were supporters of Hitler and actively discouraged any US moves to entering what was the brewing war in Europe). So, ironically, it was Trumbo who named names in the '40s and ratted on individuals who were Quakers; yet he of course is known as being on a blacklist and losing work because he was named as being a member of the communist party during the HUAC years. But Trumbo was himself the very rat he accused others of. When *government* paranoia goes off the charts, as it did in the Nixon administration and now with the Bush administration, to be spied on by the government is a symptom of that paranoia, not of the importance of those being spied on. It's just an opinion... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) Judy only participated in one demonstration against the Vietnam War so she wasn't involved much as an activist. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Wanting to continue to believe that TMers were so important that the CIA was after them transcends True Believerism. That is, even those who have rejected the TM trip still want to believe they were important. Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. In other words, I suspect that the CIA, like 95% of the world's population, probably was unaware that something called TM even existed. The desire to believe otherwise is in the minds of those who thought TM was important and still want to think that, even if they're not involved with it any more. It was recently revealed that the Defense Department had compiled a list of groups it considered threats. Among them were a Quaker group and a vegan group. When *government* paranoia goes off the charts, as it did in the Nixon administration and now with the Bush administration, to be spied on by the government is a symptom of that paranoia, not of the importance of those being spied on. I think it's possible the CIA checked out the TMO in the 70s at the height of its influence - they check out lots of groups. The issue is whether the CIA conducted a large-scale infiltration with the purpose of destroying the TMO, as MMY claims, happened. That's getting into tinfoil hat territory I think. Plus at least 1 of the people MMY identified as CIA - Roy Bachmeyer - clearly wasn't. How many others did he point out?? Do any of them make any sense, what was that all about? Well said. Checking out an organisation -- perfectly legal and probably completely within their mission statement -- is one thing; infiltrating and engaging in illegal activities is something entirely different. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
on 12/27/05 12:45 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Wanting to continue to believe that TMers were so important that the CIA was after them transcends True Believerism. That is, even those who have rejected the TM trip still want to believe they were important. In other words, I suspect that the CIA, like 95% of the world's population, probably was unaware that something called TM even existed. Not in the late-60's (Beatles) through mid-70's (Merv). It was a household word. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) I think alot of people use the word CIA when speaking about any type of spying conducted by the US gov't, not distinguishing between CIA, FBI, NSA and the host of other agencies that have intelligence offices. The Church Committee held hearings in 75 revealing a host of illegal and unsavory spying activities by the US govt, including the CIA. This is another reason I doubt US govt spying on TMO after 76 - first the Church hearings was pretty successful in reining in dometic spying activities, and 2nd the TMO was already in decline in its influence Remember in the mid 70s, over 30,000 per month learning TM in the US; MMY on the cover of Time magazine; MMY and A-list celebrities on national TV; TM research in 1st tier science publications. Today, a cult-film director getting a room of students is considered big PR - Related issues: Why MMY hated Carter and blamed him for spying, but loved Reagan. MMY and TMO tendency to blame all failures on outside influences. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) I think alot of people use the word CIA when speaking about any type of spying conducted by the US gov't, not distinguishing between CIA, FBI, NSA and the host of other agencies that have intelligence offices. There's that. There's also the fact that the TMO is an international organization, and a lot of courses took place outside the USA. Would it have been illegal for the CIA to infiltrate the TMO on foreign soil? But, I still think the more interesting question is why merely discussing this topic is such a bee under Barry's bonnet. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, markmeredith2002 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) I think alot of people use the word CIA when speaking about any type of spying conducted by the US gov't, not distinguishing between CIA, FBI, NSA and the host of other agencies that have intelligence offices. The Church Committee held hearings in 75 revealing a host of illegal and unsavory spying activities by the US govt, including the CIA. This is another reason I doubt US govt spying on TMO after 76 - first the Church hearings was pretty successful in reining in dometic spying activities, and 2nd the TMO was already in decline in its influence Remember in the mid 70s, over 30,000 per month learning TM in the US; MMY on the cover of Time magazine; MMY and A-list celebrities on national TV; TM research in 1st tier science publications. Today, a cult-film director getting a room of students is considered big PR - Wow. What a contrast, eh? Andy Kaufman was kinda shunned by the TMO at a point in his career when he was wrestling women for the World Intergender Wrestling Championship. That was a wee bit too much for the TMO. They are SO desparate today that a cult director is, as you say above, considered a big deal. The contrast is even more pronounced when you consider that Lynch is not only a cult-film director but one whose crowning-achievement- movie is one that features quite erotic lesbian scenes (don't get me started!). If this were the late '70s or early '80s, wouldn't ya think that the TMO would be distancing themselves from such an artiste? Now don't get me wrong; I LOVED Mulholland Drive and especially the Lesbian scenes (hey, who doesn't love lesbians). But, hey, come on! This is as weird or as unusual as anything Kaufman did... Related issues: Why MMY hated Carter and blamed him for spying, but loved Reagan. MMY and TMO tendency to blame all failures on outside influences. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that, as I noted a few posts back, in the early '70s virtually everyone who didn't explicitly align themselves with the U.S. government suspected they were being spied on by the CIA. Virtually everyone? You have a strange memory. I lived through those times, and never had any suspicion that I was being investigated by the CIA. Local police, yeah, but the CIA? Look up virtually in Mr. Dictionary, then get back to me, OK? I know what the word means. I'm suggesting that virtually no one felt the way you claim virtually everyone felt. Your suggestion is in error. The only people who thought the CIA was after them were politicos who were also crazy as loons. In my experience, that is. As I said before, you may have run with a more insane crowd. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 12:45 PM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, I think Barry should reflect the internal dynamic that causes him to lash out at a calm and rational discussion of TMO history that may or may not have basis in fact. Wanting to continue to believe that TMers were so important that the CIA was after them transcends True Believerism. That is, even those who have rejected the TM trip still want to believe they were important. In other words, I suspect that the CIA, like 95% of the world's population, probably was unaware that something called TM even existed. Not in the late-60's (Beatles) through mid-70's (Merv). It was a household word. Only in the U.S., England, and a few Western countries. Even then, that was probably only 5% of the world's population. I'm just saying that most of us *assume* it was more well known because we were involved with it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. (Translation: Because Judy wrote it, I have to speak up and call it bullshit.) Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. No, actually we assumed the CIA was a rogue agency that spied on anyone it felt like spying on, laws or no laws. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
Oh, BTW, note how carefully Barry avoided my point. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, I still think the more interesting question is why merely discussing this topic is such a bee under Barry's bonnet. It's not, actually. I just find it interesting that Shemp is the only one here who is addressing the strong possibility that the enduring fascination with whether the CIA ever infiltrated the TMO is just self importance rearing its ugly head. :-) I'm just saying that people would *like* to believe it was true because that might suggest that what they were involved with back then (TM) was more important than it really was. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
on 12/27/05 1:34 PM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Related issues: Why MMY hated Carter and blamed him for spying, but loved Reagan. And Nixon. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
That is what they did, and look what happened. Sal On Dec 27, 2005, at 12:57 PM, shempmcgurk wrote: ...and know what? I certainly wouldn't mind if all the organisational schemes worked. I think TM is the greatest thing since sliced bread...and if training mindless robotrons who bought into a TMO cult would have effectively propagated this technique, I would be all for it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, I still think the more interesting question is why merely discussing this topic is such a bee under Barry's bonnet. It's not, actually. I just find it interesting that Shemp is the only one here who is addressing the strong possibility that the enduring fascination with whether the CIA ever infiltrated the TMO is just self importance rearing its ugly head. :-) In fact, we've all been addressing precisely that question. Moreover, almost all of us have said that if the CIA *did* have an interest in the TMO, MMY's notion that it was because the CIA was intent on destroying the organization was nonsense. I'm just saying that people would *like* to believe it was true because that might suggest that what they were involved with back then (TM) was more important than it really was. Except that, as I pointed out a few posts back, the general belief then was that the CIA was so insane it couldn't tell the difference between what/who was important and what/who wasn't. Again, it has nothing to do with wanting to believe the TMO was important; it has to do with how nutty the CIA was--at least on this forum. Barry has a bee under his bonnet on this issue because it gives him yet another opportunity to denigrate the TMO and its TBs. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/26/05 7:35 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prez Carter (he of the faith-healing sister who was himself an evangelical Christian: http://www.alternet.org/story/18378/ ) was clearly an enemy of the TMO, so it's not much of a stretch to understand that he probably ordered the CIA to keep an eye on or destabilize the movement -- the CIA does what the Prez wants, from invading Cuba in the Bay of Pigs to destabilizing Chile, and Carter's animus towards the TMO is documented well enough in his meeting with Maharishi in the Georgia governor's office. ...and the evidence that the CIA did indeed infiltrate the TMO is? None that I'm privy to. Just that Maharishi kept complaining that they were doing so, and claiming that there were CIA among those around him. There was even a question on a course application about whether you work or had worked for the CIA. Now THAT'S hilarious! Grounds for dismissal if you're found to be lying... It would work with FBI types since they were never above the law. * The Peace Corps has always screened to keep out people who have previously worked for intelligence agencies: MATTHEWS: Last question. Do you think the existing Peace Corps rules that says you can never have served in an American intelligence agency before serving in the Peace Corps is a good rule? GAFFNEY: I don`t know whether it is in fact implemented. SCHNEIDER: It is. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8871910 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, I still think the more interesting question is why merely discussing this topic is such a bee under Barry's bonnet. It's not, actually. I just find it interesting that Shemp is the only one here who is addressing the strong possibility that the enduring fascination with whether the CIA ever infiltrated the TMO is just self importance rearing its ugly head. :-) In fact, we've all been addressing precisely that question. Moreover, almost all of us have said that if the CIA *did* have an interest in the TMO, MMY's notion that it was because the CIA was intent on destroying the organization was nonsense. I'm just saying that people would *like* to believe it was true because that might suggest that what they were involved with back then (TM) was more important than it really was. Except that, as I pointed out a few posts back, the general belief then was that the CIA was so insane it couldn't tell the difference between what/who was important and what/who wasn't. Again, it has nothing to do with wanting to believe the TMO was important; it has to do with how nutty the CIA was--at least on this forum. Barry has a bee under his bonnet on this issue because it gives him yet another opportunity to denigrate the TMO and its TBs. Which is, itself, just another form of fundamentalist TBism. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- TurquoiseB wrote: I'm just saying that people would *like* to believe it was true because that might suggest that what they were involved with back then (TM) was more important than it really was. I believe it because the U.S. government has demonstrated itself to be more intrusive in its intelligence gathering than I would have imagined during my innocent TM teacher days. Just as cops are paid to suspect everyone, intelligence agencies are tasked with being paranoid. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, BTW, note how carefully Barry avoided my point. Nobody really cares, Judy. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Except that, as I noted a few posts back, virtually everyone who wasn't explicitly aligned with the U.S. government suspected the CIA was spying on them. It didn't have anything to do with wanting to believe one was important, of course. To the contrary--it reflected the common judgment that the CIA was so insane it didn't know the difference between what/who was important and what/who was not. I'm sorry, but this is such bullshit I have to speak up. Anyone who was an activist back in the late 60s and early 70s might have suspected that *some* US government agency was monitoring their efforts, but almost no one (except, seemingly, Judy Stein) was crazy enough to believe it was the CIA. You see, back then (and now, although now the lines have been blurred by the Reagans and Bushes) the CIA was forbidden by law from investigating anything that was taking place in the United States. It *had* to concern itself with things going on outside the country. The FBI and the NSA handled internal security matters in the U.S. All of us who were activitists knew this, and so the thought that we were being monitored by the CIA would *never* have occurred to us. T'would seem that Judy missed that particular civics lesson during her paranoid 70s. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, I still think the more interesting question is why merely discussing this topic is such a bee under Barry's bonnet. It's not, actually. I just find it interesting that Shemp is the only one here who is addressing the strong possibility that the enduring fascination with whether the CIA ever infiltrated the TMO is just self importance rearing its ugly head. :-) Shemp's position doesn't surprise me in the least. I see him as the Ann Coulter of FFL; he tends to post things in order to get a rise out of people. So it makes perfect sense to me that he would be drawn to the side that's slinging inflammatory rhetoric. I'm just saying that people would *like* to believe it was true because that might suggest that what they were involved with back then (TM) was more important than it really was. Yes, you've made that abundantly clear. However, no one has actually expressed such a sentiment, so, IMO, all you're really doing is projecting. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
on 12/27/05 3:02 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 1:34 PM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Related issues: Why MMY hated Carter and blamed him for spying, but loved Reagan. And Nixon. Remember also that MMY was a supporter of the Vietnam War...or, I should say, at the very least, he supported young men supporting their country by joining the military at the time and fighting in Vietnam. More specifically, he was in favor of sending as many blacks as possible to Viet Nam. He said the karma of that war was between the blacks and the Chinese. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
Why are you obsessed with Barry? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, I still think the more interesting question is why merely discussing this topic is such a bee under Barry's bonnet. It's not, actually. I just find it interesting that Shemp is the only one here who is addressing the strong possibility that the enduring fascination with whether the CIA ever infiltrated the TMO is just self importance rearing its ugly head. :-) Shemp's position doesn't surprise me in the least. I see him as the Ann Coulter of FFL; he tends to post things in order to get a rise out of people. So it makes perfect sense to me that he would be drawn to the side that's slinging inflammatory rhetoric. I'm just saying that people would *like* to believe it was true because that might suggest that what they were involved with back then (TM) was more important than it really was. Yes, you've made that abundantly clear. However, no one has actually expressed such a sentiment, so, IMO, all you're really doing is projecting. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, I still think the more interesting question is why merely discussing this topic is such a bee under Barry's bonnet. It's not, actually. I just find it interesting that Shemp is the only one here who is addressing the strong possibility that the enduring fascination with whether the CIA ever infiltrated the TMO is just self importance rearing its ugly head. :-) I'm just saying that people would *like* to believe it was true because that might suggest that what they were involved with back then (TM) was more important than it really was. I just did a search on the US Dept of State website and easily found several listings for Transcendental Meditation in the State Department's International Religious Freedom Reports 2002 - 2004, released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor. Is this just a hop, skip and jump away from further govt involvement? Who knows? Though it speaks more to me about the desire of our government to want to know everything about everyone, than it does necessarily about TM TBs wanting to feel self-important. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Barry has a bee under his bonnet on this issue because it gives him yet another opportunity to denigrate the TMO and its TBs. Which is, itself, just another form of fundamentalist TBism. Yeah, or TNBism, True Nonbelieverism. Knee-jerk-wise, black-and-white-no-shades-of-gray-wise, it's indistinguishable from TBism. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 3:02 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 1:34 PM, markmeredith2002 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Related issues: Why MMY hated Carter and blamed him for spying, but loved Reagan. And Nixon. Remember also that MMY was a supporter of the Vietnam War...or, I should say, at the very least, he supported young men supporting their country by joining the military at the time and fighting in Vietnam. More specifically, he was in favor of sending as many blacks as possible to Viet Nam. He said the karma of that war was between the blacks and the Chinese. Really? Where did you hear this? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why are you obsessed with Barry? Barry is cute with milky-white skin and silky-smooth buttocks. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, I still think the more interesting question is why merely discussing this topic is such a bee under Barry's bonnet. It's not, actually. I just find it interesting that Shemp is the only one here who is addressing the strong possibility that the enduring fascination with whether the CIA ever infiltrated the TMO is just self importance rearing its ugly head. :-) Shemp's position doesn't surprise me in the least. I see him as the Ann Coulter of FFL; he tends to post things in order to get a rise out of people. So it makes perfect sense to me that he would be drawn to the side that's slinging inflammatory rhetoric. I'm just saying that people would *like* to believe it was true because that might suggest that what they were involved with back then (TM) was more important than it really was. Yes, you've made that abundantly clear. However, no one has actually expressed such a sentiment, so, IMO, all you're really doing is projecting. Alex Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
on 12/27/05 4:13 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More specifically, he was in favor of sending as many blacks as possible to Viet Nam. He said the karma of that war was between the blacks and the Chinese. Really? Where did you hear this? He told Curly Smith, and Curly told me. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, BTW, note how carefully Barry avoided my point. Nobody really cares, Judy. And that's why things are in such a mess today, including with the TMO. When casual dishonesty is simply accepted as not worth bothering about, it lays the groundwork for serious dishonesty to be ignored as well. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why are you obsessed with Barry? I'm not. However, his recent acting out has gotten under my skin a bit, so you could say I'm abscessed with Barry. :-) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, BTW, note how carefully Barry avoided my point. Nobody really cares, Judy. And that's why things are in such a mess today, including with the TMO. No, the TMO has nothing to do with your daily diatribes with Barry. When casual dishonesty casual dishonesty = non-anal retentiveness is simply accepted as not worth bothering about, it lays the groundwork for serious dishonesty to be ignored as well. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Rick Archer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: on 12/27/05 4:13 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: More specifically, he was in favor of sending as many blacks as possible to Viet Nam. He said the karma of that war was between the blacks and the Chinese. Really? Where did you hear this? He told Curly Smith, and Curly told me. I wouldn't trust Curly Smith. He wore really, really bad suits. He once spoke to our business class at MIU back in the '70s and he had on the silliest looking quasi-cowboy suit. And he then bragged that he had all his suits custom-made. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Barry has a bee under his bonnet on this issue because it gives him yet another opportunity to denigrate the TMO and its TBs. Which is, itself, just another form of fundamentalist TBism. Yeah, or TNBism, True Nonbelieverism. Knee-jerk-wise, black-and-white-no-shades-of-gray-wise, it's indistinguishable from TBism. Hey, you guys believe what you want. Me, I'm just fascinated by the self-importance thang in *any* spiritual tradition. You should hear me lay into ex-Rama students who are still whining about being persecuted by the anti-cult groups. In their case, it *was* persecution, legitimate persecution, complete with blacklists so that people couldn't get jobs, people getting kidnapped by deprogrammers, and entire 'strike groups' out there monitoring the group's activities so that they could fuck with them. But IMO the *enduring* fascination with such things is all about the self importance of the students themselves, and the inability to let go of these things that made them feel important at the time. Feeling persecuted is an important part of *many* spiritual trips; the more persecuted the followers can be made to feel, the stronger and tighter the TB tradition they can build. *That* is my interest in all of this. TM and its particular manifestation of the general phenomenon, or 'bashing TM' is not. That you guys believe it is is just more self importance. :-) :-) :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test - CIA and TMO
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, a_non_moose_ff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why are you obsessed with Barry? Barry is cute with milky-white skin and silky-smooth buttocks. Shemp obviously has unauthorized access to the secret camaeras that the CIA has placed in my bathroom. Ick. :-) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's not *about* the CIA. It's about eltitists' innate need to feel important. The TM organization panders to elitism. It tells its members that they're so important that when they meditate they clear stress from the atmosphere and that when they bounce on their butts they create world peace. It tells them that their belief systems are better than anyone else's in the world. And to put the cherry on top of the self-importance cake, it tells people that they are SO important that the CIA and other evil forces are trying to persecute the founder of this So Very Special And Important Tradition, and thus are indirectly trying to persecute *them*, the really important ones, the ones who make it all happen with their cash. It's so common in religious and spiritual traditions that the mind boggles that people still believe this crap. But people still believe this crap, because they're more desperate to be important than they are to be rational. I agree with everything in your assessment above, Tantra, except I do also believe that the two twenty minute periods of TM are great periods of rest and, yes, do release stree in both the individual practising it and the atmosphere. That fanatical true-believes also hold that position does not take away from what I believe is a reality. I have no problem with you or anyone else believing that. Me, I don't personally believe that so-called stress has anything whatsoever to do with the lack of realization in the individual or with world problems, so it wouldn't make sense for me to believe that. As for the basic TM technique being beneficial, no problemo. If the organization that thought it up still cared enough about helping people to make the technique available at a reasonable cost, I could probably overlook their blatant moneygrubbing in other areas. But they don't. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 26, 2005, at 1:31 AM, shempmcgurk wrote:Yes, MMY is a great saint who has brought a great teaching to the world. But I suppose even a great saint can be delusional and irrationally paranoid which is what MMY very well may be if he thinks the TMO has been spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA. Yeah that's the ticket. Your powers of ignoring and rationalization are great Obiwan. The dark force is strong in this one.It is amazing that teachers who condition us to lie to ourselves are declared 'great saints'. Probably a sweet poison to teach us about maya... To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- lupidus108 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, matrixmonitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Maharishi was a target of the CIA This is utter, unproven crap. Really ? What about the armed american that was stopped on the bridge on his way to Kulm and handed over to the swiss police ? What about the DC-3 that Maharishi had and was blown up on an airport in Germany ? If you are serious, which I doubt, you should be able to dig up the details of these stories. Lups, do you know any more info about these events? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Right after I got back from TTC in '74, a few
initiators at my
center started getting involved with -- for lack of
a better word --
a faith-healer in Nebraska whom they would send
money to and she
would work on your aura or some such thing and
remove negative
energy from you.
I remember this! I was an MIU student then ('74-'75)
when it was happening. Everybody and their uncle was
sending them money and pictures of themselves. It was
the first outside-the-program activity that came
through the TMO. I also heard that MMY was supporting
it. I sent my picture and got a response, but didn't
follow-up on it. I think the sequence was that you
sent a picture of yourself and they sent you back a
summary of their findings concerning your, of course,
completely mess-up subtle body and then you sent them
$'s to fix it.
__
Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about.
Just $16.99/mo. or less.
dsl.yahoo.com
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[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Yes, MMY is a great saint who has brought a great teaching to the world. But I suppose even a great saint can be delusional and irrationally paranoid which is what MMY very well may be if he thinks the TMO has been spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA. The notion that the TMO was spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA doesn't strike me as all that unlikely, as I suggested in another post. It's just that if that were the case, it would have been for very different reasons than MMY imagined--either because the CIA thought MMY was teaching some paranormal technique that could be useful militarily, or because they thought the *TMO* was a front for spying or for communist activity of some kind. The CIA itself was pretty nutty and paranoid at the height of the Cold War. But that the CIA was intent on *persecuting* MMY and the TMO is a ludicrous idea. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Yes, MMY is a great saint who has brought a great teaching to the world. But I suppose even a great saint can be delusional and irrationally paranoid which is what MMY very well may be if he thinks the TMO has been spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA. The notion that the TMO was spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA doesn't strike me as all that unlikely, as I suggested in another post. It's just that if that were the case, it would have been for very different reasons than MMY imagined--either because the CIA thought MMY was teaching some paranormal technique that could be useful militarily, or because they thought the *TMO* was a front for spying or for communist activity of some kind. The CIA itself was pretty nutty and paranoid at the height of the Cold War. But that the CIA was intent on *persecuting* MMY and the TMO is a ludicrous idea. I agree with Judy, here. Probably the initial interest from the CIA was two fold: a very large and popular international organization and the possibility of some supernatural abilities that could be exploited. I think the CIA quickly discovered that the TMO was the gang that couldn't shoot straight and that the siddhis did not bring about anything that could be utilized. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Yes, MMY is a great saint who has brought a great teaching to the world. But I suppose even a great saint can be delusional and irrationally paranoid which is what MMY very well may be if he thinks the TMO has been spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA. The notion that the TMO was spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA doesn't strike me as all that unlikely, as I suggested in another post. It's just that if that were the case, it would have been for very different reasons than MMY imagined--either because the CIA thought MMY was teaching some paranormal technique that could be useful militarily, or because they thought the *TMO* was a front for spying or for communist activity of some kind. The CIA itself was pretty nutty and paranoid at the height of the Cold War. But that the CIA was intent on *persecuting* MMY and the TMO is a ludicrous idea. I agree with Judy, here. Probably the initial interest from the CIA was two fold: a very large and popular international organization and the possibility of some supernatural abilities that could be exploited. I think the CIA quickly discovered that the TMO was the gang that couldn't shoot straight and that the siddhis did not bring about anything that could be utilized. Yup. Or it may have been a complete fantasy on MMY's part from the get-go. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
on 12/26/05 8:49 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Yes, MMY is a great saint who has brought a great teaching to the world. But I suppose even a great saint can be delusional and irrationally paranoid which is what MMY very well may be if he thinks the TMO has been spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA. The notion that the TMO was spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA doesn't strike me as all that unlikely, as I suggested in another post. It's just that if that were the case, it would have been for very different reasons than MMY imagined--either because the CIA thought MMY was teaching some paranormal technique that could be useful militarily, or because they thought the *TMO* was a front for spying or for communist activity of some kind. Does the CIA get involved if an international organization is handling money illegally? If so, that might explain their interest. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
On Dec 26, 2005, at 11:32 AM, Rick Archer wrote:on 12/26/05 8:49 AM, authfriend at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk"[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:snip Yes, MMY is a great saint who has brought a great teaching to theworld. But I suppose even a great saint can be delusional andirrationally paranoid which is what MMY very well may be if hethinks the TMO has been spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA. The notion that the TMO was spied upon andinfiltrated by the CIA doesn't strike me asall that unlikely, as I suggested in anotherpost. It's just that if that were the case,it would have been for very different reasonsthan MMY imagined--either because the CIAthought MMY was teaching some paranormaltechnique that could be useful militarily, orbecause they thought the *TMO* was a frontfor spying or for communist activity of somekind. Does the CIA get involved if an international organization is handling moneyillegally? If so, that might explain their interest. Perhaps a Freedom of Information Act application would be in order? To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' SPONSORED LINKS Maharishi university of management Maharishi mahesh yogi Ramana maharshi YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "FairfieldLife" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: the false guru test
--- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, shempmcgurk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip Yes, MMY is a great saint who has brought a great teaching to the world. But I suppose even a great saint can be delusional and irrationally paranoid which is what MMY very well may be if he thinks the TMO has been spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA. The notion that the TMO was spied upon and infiltrated by the CIA doesn't strike me as all that unlikely, as I suggested in another post. It's just that if that were the case, it would have been for very different reasons than MMY imagined--either because the CIA thought MMY was teaching some paranormal technique that could be useful militarily, or because they thought the *TMO* was a front for spying or for communist activity of some kind. The CIA itself was pretty nutty and paranoid at the height of the Cold War. But that the CIA was intent on *persecuting* MMY and the TMO is a ludicrous idea. I agree with Judy, here. Probably the initial interest from the CIA was two fold: a very large and popular international organization and the possibility of some supernatural abilities that could be exploited. I think the CIA quickly discovered that the TMO was the gang that couldn't shoot straight and that the siddhis did not bring about anything that could be utilized. Yup. Or it may have been a complete fantasy on MMY's part from the get-go. I think there must have been something to hang his delusional hat on. I hope it wasn't pure paranoid fantasy! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
