[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow...I wish Marek was still around on FFL to enjoy this...
Wow is right! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : DJ MISS FTV - Be on right WAVE! | Facebook https://www.facebook.com/202577433105506/videos/1033922069971034/ DJ MISS FTV - Be on right WAVE! | Facebook https://www.facebook.com/202577433105506/videos/1033922069971034/ Be on right WAVE! :) #surf #extreme #hero View on www.facebook.com https://www.facebook.com/202577433105506/videos/1033922069971034/ Preview by Yahoo
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
The only thing about you I wonder about is how you got so prejudiced against minorities, but that seems natural for people from South Carolina, to rebel against authority, even rebel against a dinning room manager at a religious school. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : And people around here wonder why I think Marshy was such a piece of crap From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:12 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronation http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Micronation during the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion to small and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty over part of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja crowns, what a laugh!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
ion. A lot of them are now detailed to building monuments everywhere in the form of Maharishi Towers as an objective. Of the people who originally paid and became Rajas evidently that number has shrunk. There are capable Rajas and there are Rajas. Some number has bailed. It will be interesting to see when they someday come to having a “re-certification of Rajas”. There is a lot of positive communal introspection going on right now at all levels within TM as to what happened to the TM meditating movement and how Things might be done now to a better effect. They are open to suggestion. You got anything useful to say? -Buck on the Ground in Fairfield, Iowa ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: "j_alexander_stanley@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 5:20 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe! Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace See the section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty" Thanks. I guess my only comment has to be, "Can you say 'DELUSIONAL?' I think you can." As Salyavin pointed out, had he never *heard* of Jonestown? Was he incapable of making the "OMG...another cult asking to make lurid headlines in our country" connection that anyone with half a brain would have made? Sometimes I really have to wonder how out of it Maharishi really was... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronation http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Micronation during the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion to small and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty over part of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja crowns, what a laugh! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : I have to agree that this is exactly what would have happened. He wouldn't have paid, thinking he was dealing with people like the ones wh
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
You're not even making any sense today - apparently it's a meditation retreat on an island that is situated in Clew Bay, County Mayo. Go figure. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Ah, so its a residence course/WPA place. Island of World Peace https://www.islandofworldpeace.ie/ https://www.islandofworldpeace.ie/ Island of World Peace https://www.islandofworldpeace.ie/ Welcome to IslandofWorldPeace.ie! View on www.islandofworldpeac... https://www.islandofworldpeace.ie/ Preview by Yahoo From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Interesting: Whatever happened to that one Sal? As you can see, not much! Island of World Peace - Inishraher - Sunset beside Croke Pattick 31/12/14 - NYE- Ireland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-nPkfFsqOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-nPkfFsqOc Island of World Peace - Inishraher - Sunset beside ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-nPkfFsqOc Inishraher, Clew Bay, Mayo 360* view of 30 acre Island capturing Croke Patrick. Taken at 4:30ish for the last sunset of 2014 in Ireland. The west is the best... View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-nPkfFsqOc Preview by Yahoo I think a lot of TMO acquisitions were so they could have a land bank and let the value increase over time so they can sell for an easy profit. They seem to have a lot of places where they promise all sorts of wonders that never materialise and everyone forgets about them. Just as I had forgotten about this place. "In 2006, the Global Country purchased Inishraher,[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#cite_note-41 a 30-acre (120,000 m2) island in Clew Bay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clew_Bay off the coast, County Mayo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Mayo, Ireland with the intention of founding an International Peace Centre, and of designating it as a Maharishi Capital of the Global Country of World Peace.[37] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#cite_note-IrishIndo-37[42] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#cite_note-42 Planning permission for two 18-room hostels on the island was approved on 22 July 2009.[43]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#cite_note-43 From: "j_alexander_stanley@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:20 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe! Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace See the section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty" ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronation http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Micronation during the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion to small and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty over part of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Bra
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
Ah, so its a residence course/WPA place. Island of World Peace | | | | | | | | | | | Island of World PeaceWelcome to IslandofWorldPeace.ie! | | | | View on www.islandofworldpeac... | Preview by Yahoo | | | | | From: salyavin808 To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe! ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Interesting: Whatever happened to that one Sal? As you can see, not much! Island of World Peace - Inishraher - Sunset beside Croke Pattick 31/12/14 - NYE- Ireland || |||| Island of World Peace - Inishraher - Sunset beside ... Inishraher, Clew Bay, Mayo 360* view of 30 acre Island capturing Croke Patrick. Taken at 4:30ish for the last sunset of 2014 in Ireland. The west is the best...|| | View on www.youtube.com |Preview by Yahoo| || I think a lot of TMO acquisitions were so they could have a land bank and let the value increase over time so they can sell for an easy profit. They seem to have a lot of places where they promise all sorts of wonders that never materialise and everyone forgets about them. Just as I had forgotten about this place. "In 2006, the Global Country purchased Inishraher,[41] a 30-acre (120,000 m2) island in Clew Bay off the coast, County Mayo,Ireland with the intention of founding an International Peace Centre,and of designating it as a Maharishi Capital of the Global Country ofWorld Peace.[37][42] Planning permission for two 18-room hostels on the island was approved on 22 July 2009.[43]" From: "j_alexander_stanley@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:20 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe! Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia See the section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty" ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronationduring the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion tosmall and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty overpart of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding high on a wave of world-changing righteousness d
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Interesting: Whatever happened to that one Sal? As you can see, not much! Island of World Peace - Inishraher - Sunset beside Croke Pattick 31/12/14 - NYE- Ireland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-nPkfFsqOc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-nPkfFsqOc Island of World Peace - Inishraher - Sunset beside ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-nPkfFsqOc Inishraher, Clew Bay, Mayo 360* view of 30 acre Island capturing Croke Patrick. Taken at 4:30ish for the last sunset of 2014 in Ireland. The west is the best... View on www.youtube.com https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-nPkfFsqOc Preview by Yahoo I think a lot of TMO acquisitions were so they could have a land bank and let the value increase over time so they can sell for an easy profit. They seem to have a lot of places where they promise all sorts of wonders that never materialise and everyone forgets about them. Just as I had forgotten about this place. "In 2006, the Global Country purchased Inishraher,[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#cite_note-41 a 30-acre (120,000 m2) island in Clew Bay http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clew_Bay off the coast, County Mayo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Mayo, Ireland with the intention of founding an International Peace Centre, and of designating it as a Maharishi Capital of the Global Country of World Peace.[37] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#cite_note-IrishIndo-37[42] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#cite_note-42 Planning permission for two 18-room hostels on the island was approved on 22 July 2009.[43]" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace#cite_note-43 From: "j_alexander_stanley@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:20 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe! Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace See the section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty" ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronation http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Micronation during the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion to small and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty over part of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! He tried it with another country
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
Remember is wiki - the entry is not all inclusive.
From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
From: "j_alexander_stanley@... [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 5:20 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaSee the
section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty"
Thanks. I guess my only comment has to be, "Can you say 'DELUSIONAL?' I think
you can."
As Salyavin pointed out, had he never *heard* of Jonestown? Was he incapable of
making the "OMG...another cult asking to make lurid headlines in our country"
connection that anyone with half a brain would have made? Sometimes I really
have to wonder how out of it Maharishi really was...
It's an interesting section in that wiki page, but my Brazil story isn't
something half-remembered or from my imagination because I was living in a
particular town at that point and wouldn't have known the TM teacher I had the
discussion about Brazil with before 2004. So there's a bit more to it. Probably
a lot more actually...
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck
"ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the
"Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative
statement:
"The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a
micronationduring the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion
tosmall and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty overpart of
their territory."
Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it
is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe
(there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his
instigation. This brings up several questions.
First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP
as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly
wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor
real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call
it a real country.
Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion
dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who
claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it
is.
Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who
try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty.
I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but
I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away...
I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he
spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling
them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why
he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other
than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..."
One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for
permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is
produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed
that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to
anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple
never happened!
He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off
South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it
was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding
high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the
millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja
crowns, what a laugh!
#yiv7891225019 #yiv7891225019 -- #yiv7891225019ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7891225019
#yiv7891225019ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv7891225019
#yiv7891225019ygrp-mkp #yiv7891225019hd
{color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px
0;}#yiv7891225019 #yiv7891225019ygrp-mkp #yiv7891225019ads
{margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv7891225019 #yiv7891225019ygrp-mkp .yiv7891225019ad
{padding:0 0;}#yiv7891225019 #yiv7891225019ygrp-
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
Interesting: Whatever happened to that one Sal?
"In 2006, the Global Country purchased Inishraher,[41] a 30-acre (120,000 m2)
island in Clew Bay off the coast, County Mayo, Ireland with the intention of
founding an International Peace Centre, and of designating it as a Maharishi
Capital of the Global Country of World Peace.[37][42] Planning permission for
two 18-room hostels on the island was approved on 22 July 2009.[43]"
From: "j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:20 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia See the
section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty"
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck
"ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the
"Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative
statement:
"The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a
micronationduring the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion
tosmall and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty overpart of
their territory."
Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it
is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe
(there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his
instigation. This brings up several questions.
First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP
as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly
wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor
real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call
it a real country.
Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion
dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who
claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it
is.
Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who
try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty.
I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but
I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away...
I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he
spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling
them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why
he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other
than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..."
One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for
permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is
produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed
that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to
anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple
never happened!
He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off
South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it
was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding
high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the
millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja
crowns, what a laugh!
#yiv7989651406 #yiv7989651406 -- #yiv7989651406ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid
#d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7989651406
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
And people around here wonder why I think Marshy was such a piece of crap
From: salyavin808
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 11:12 AM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck
"ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the
"Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative
statement:
"The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a
micronationduring the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion
tosmall and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty overpart of
their territory."
Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it
is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe
(there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his
instigation. This brings up several questions.
First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP
as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly
wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor
real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call
it a real country.
Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion
dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who
claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it
is.
Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who
try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty.
I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but
I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away...
I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he
spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling
them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why
he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other
than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..."
One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for
permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is
produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed
that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to
anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple
never happened!
He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off
South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it
was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding
high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the
millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja
crowns, what a laugh!
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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: "j_alexander_stanley@... [FairfieldLife]" To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 5:20 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe! Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace See the section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty" Thanks. I guess my only comment has to be, "Can you say 'DELUSIONAL?' I think you can." As Salyavin pointed out, had he never *heard* of Jonestown? Was he incapable of making the "OMG...another cult asking to make lurid headlines in our country" connection that anyone with half a brain would have made? Sometimes I really have to wonder how out of it Maharishi really was... It's an interesting section in that wiki page, but my Brazil story isn't something half-remembered or from my imagination because I was living in a particular town at that point and wouldn't have known the TM teacher I had the discussion about Brazil with before 2004. So there's a bit more to it. Probably a lot more actually... ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronation http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Micronation during the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion to small and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty over part of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja crowns, what a laugh!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
From: "j_alexander_stan...@yahoo.com [FairfieldLife]"
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2015 5:20 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia See the
section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty"
Thanks. I guess my only comment has to be, "Can you say 'DELUSIONAL?' I think
you can."
As Salyavin pointed out, had he never *heard* of Jonestown? Was he incapable of
making the "OMG...another cult asking to make lurid headlines in our country"
connection that anyone with half a brain would have made? Sometimes I really
have to wonder how out of it Maharishi really was...
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote :
Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck
"ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the
"Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative
statement:
"The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a
micronationduring the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion
tosmall and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty overpart of
their territory."
Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it
is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe
(there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his
instigation. This brings up several questions.
First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP
as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly
wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor
real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call
it a real country.
Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion
dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who
claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it
is.
Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who
try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty.
I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but
I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away...
I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he
spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling
them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why
he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other
than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..."
One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for
permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is
produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed
that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to
anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple
never happened!
He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off
South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it
was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding
high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the
millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja
crowns, what a laugh!
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
Global Country of World Peace - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Country_of_World_Peace See the section: "Efforts to obtain sovereignty" ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronation http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Micronation during the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion to small and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty over part of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja crowns, what a laugh!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronation http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Micronation during the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion to small and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty over part of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! Just think...if they'd been successful in Brazil, by now the phrase "Drinking the Maharishi Vedic Honey Mead" might have become more popular than "Drinking the Kool-Aid." Assuming anyone could afford it
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
From: salyavin808 ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronationduring the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion tosmall and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty overpart of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! Just think...if they'd been successful in Brazil, by now the phrase "Drinking the Maharishi Vedic Honey Mead" might have become more popular than "Drinking the Kool-Aid." He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja crowns, what a laugh!
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow! Now THAT is a bribe!
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wrote : Curious about what other territories besides Iceland Alex's bro got stuck "ruling," I found myself on a micronation.org Wiki page dedicated to the "Global Country of World Peace" that contained the following rather provocative statement: "The GCWP has made various unsuccessful attempts at attaining sovereignty as a micronation http://mw.micronation.org/wiki/Micronation during the years 2000 to 2002, offering sums in excess of $1 billion to small and impoverished countries in exchange for the sovereignty over part of their territory." Does anyone have anything to add to this reference? Given the dates cited, it is clear that this happened during Maharishi's lifetime, and that this bribe (there is, after all, no other way of describing it) was offered at his instigation. This brings up several questions. First, obviously, it tends to discredit Maharishi's own description of the GCWP as "a country without borders for peace loving people everywhere."He so clearly wanted it to be a real country that he was willing to try to bribe some poor real country -- *any* real country -- a billion bucks to get the rights to call it a real country. Second, and equally obviously, he didn't feel that the expenditure of a billion dollars was out of the question, financially. I mention this for those who claim that the TMO isn't "really" worth as much money as press estimates say it is. Third, WTF? This includes Maharishi in the same unpleasant group of losers who try to "buy" titles so they can pretend to be royalty. I find it difficult to interpret this as anything but megalomania run wild, but I wait with 'bated breath for TM True Believers to 'splain it all away... I can add something to it. I was watching the Marshy channel in 2004 (?) and he spent an hour or two ranting and raving about the government of Brazil, calling them backwards and anti-progress but without offering an explanation about why he thought that. The local TM teacher was mystified and had no answer other than that the reesh "sees natural laws at a deeper level blah blah..." One swift google later revealed that he had asked the Brazilian government for permission to start his own country around the land that the Maharishi Honey is produced, a country with it's own laws. They obviously said no, I was amazed that anyone would think that any government would give up it's territory to anyone, let alone a religious cult. It's like Jim Jones and the People's Temple never happened! He tried it with another country too, I think he wanted to buy an island off South America somewhere to do it, again with it's own laws etc. I considered it was rampant megalomania, the TMO had its own currency by then and were riding high on a wave of world-changing righteousness due to all the money the millionaires courses in Vlodrop had brought in. Towers of invincibility, raja crowns, what a laugh!
[FairfieldLife] Re: WOW-What a cool President! Aren't you just tickled?
Unfortunately, in California, that figure is barely enough to raise a family.
[FairfieldLife] Re: WOW-What a cool President! Aren't you just tickled?
If you net more than $250,000 a year, you're almost certainly a millionaire. BTW, the definition of "small business" is any business with less than 400 employees. The top 3% of companies with less than 400 employees have owners who would be affected by the tax change. L. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wrote: > > Obama came before the American people today demanding taxes be raised on > those making over $250,000 a year, including what he admitted would include > 3% of small businesses. Even if that 3% is correct, which is disputed, that > 3% means a tax increase on 900,000 small businesses. > > (If you make over $250K you're a millionaire?) > > http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/09/Obama-Tax-Flip-Flop-Left-of-Pelosi >
[FairfieldLife] Re: WOW-What a cool President! Aren't you just tickled?
Yes, I am tickled because we need to spread the wealth around a bit...don't you agree... Or, would you rather have greed destroy everything? Since Reagan sold out the country to corporations and the military, the greed factor and 'superior elitists' factor, is hurting us all.. No one likes greed... Why just think of yourself, when that only brings misfortune... Obama says he's willing to pay more taxes also...so what's the problem...? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, wgm4u wrote: > > Obama came before the American people today demanding taxes be raised on > those making over $250,000 a year, including what he admitted would include > 3% of small businesses. Even if that 3% is correct, which is disputed, that > 3% means a tax increase on 900,000 small businesses. > > (If you make over $250K you're a millionaire?) > > http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/07/09/Obama-Tax-Flip-Flop-Left-of-Pelosi >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
Not the drummer! Although my brother-in-law used to get phone calls from the other Peter Erskine's drug dealers by mistake. They both lived in LA...That was many years ago. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > Yes, sidhis in 1978, summer. What a gruel, hot, boring, long hours in that > > giant room with everyone unstressing. And then when Maharishi announcing > > the first sidhi, the stunned, unbelieving silence. Was he serious?!?! > > Anyway... > > > > I hung out with the art students, which makes perfect sense - being an art > > major. Michael Caine, Jerry Hanna and Peter Erskine who was my > > brother-in-law. > > This Peter Erskine ? : > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyAx7g2MZ_M >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > Yes, sidhis in 1978, summer. What a gruel, hot, boring, long hours in that > > giant room with everyone unstressing. And then when Maharishi announcing > > the first sidhi, the stunned, unbelieving silence. Was he serious?!?! > > Anyway... > > > > I hung out with the art students, which makes perfect sense - being an art > > major. Michael Caine, Jerry Hanna and Peter Erskine who was my > > brother-in-law. > This Peter Erskine ? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyAx7g2MZ_M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40uZ3LZe6J4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv5kTiR86lA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaUcurdKils
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > Yes, sidhis in 1978, summer. What a gruel, hot, boring, long hours in that > > giant room with everyone unstressing. And then when Maharishi announcing > > the first sidhi, the stunned, unbelieving silence. Was he serious?!?! > > Anyway... > > > > I hung out with the art students, which makes perfect sense - being an art > > major. Michael Caine, Jerry Hanna and Peter Erskine who was my > > brother-in-law. > > This Peter Erskine ? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyAx7g2MZ_M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CzjqIuW4ak
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > Yes, sidhis in 1978, summer. What a gruel, hot, boring, long hours in that > giant room with everyone unstressing. And then when Maharishi announcing the > first sidhi, the stunned, unbelieving silence. Was he serious?!?! Anyway... > > I hung out with the art students, which makes perfect sense - being an art > major. Michael Caine, Jerry Hanna and Peter Erskine who was my > brother-in-law. This Peter Erskine ? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyAx7g2MZ_M
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
Yes, sidhis in 1978, summer. What a gruel, hot, boring, long hours in that giant room with everyone unstressing. And then when Maharishi announcing the first sidhi, the stunned, unbelieving silence. Was he serious?!?! Anyway... I hung out with the art students, which makes perfect sense - being an art major. Michael Caine, Jerry Hanna and Peter Erskine who was my brother-in-law. ( I am not speaking in complete sentences here, just rambling.) Jim Weidle, another art prof dated my sister Christine who was a TM teacher and student. The art majors were really an interesting and testy bunch. Chester Overlock, Jody Porter, Peggy O'Neil, Claudia Chadwick and Teddy Berghoff to name a few. I remember seriously resisting having to meditate during a class break every day. I wanted to be active, not sit down and close my eyes. So there I was drawing or something and the rest of the group had slipped into nirvana. Anyway, gotta go. My husband has a photo studio above the barn and a friend and I are going to go crazy up there with some music and flashing light bulbs. By the way, did you ever go to those dances in the basement of the student union? Loved that, danced my a-- off. Ciao --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > Absolutely Ann, I spent some time studying that classic jawline of yours back > in the day! I knew those guys you mentioned but we hung in different circles > so I can't remember a single conversation with you. I can see you laughing > though. Odd memories swirling of all of us stuck in LC1 with lots of time to > stare at each other. Jon Shear was the philosophy professor and I mentioned > him because at first I thought you were someone else who was in my philosophy > major. She had a sister there too and got initiated at your age. > > My best pictures are at my site at curtis (I put this here so it isn't a > link, so make it one word) blues.com If those don't jog a memory a younger > one wont help I'll bet. > > I graduated in '79. Did you get your sidhis on the Summer course in '78? > That was a great time. I went on to sidhaland for 4 years to get credit for > TTC, taught TM in DC where I put down roots, I've been here ever since. I > love the ethnic diversity and the outlets for my music. I left the movement > in '89 and reformatted my hard drive from all TM to no TM. I believe that > everything I was seeking from TM just comes from growing up. I love being my > age now,this is the best time of my life. > > But I had good times in the movement, and although I don't believe Maharishi > was actually right about very much, I loved the 15 year ride. How many other > bluesmen can say they lived as a monk for a few years! It is part of my weird > puzzle and discussing it here has made me reevaluate the pros and cons. I > got so much out of it that was positive, just not the things I thought I was > getting. > > On the non Robin front, anything you want to rap about horses will be of > interest. Especially your bond with their intelligence. I love animals but > have had only a limited exposure to horses when I was young. Oh yeah, and > what do you sell in those stores of yours? > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > While we are on the subject, do you recognize me from MIU Curtis? What year > > did you graduate? You mentioned John Shear. Was that a prof or student? I > > always get my schools all mixed up with names. I went to ASL (American > > School in London) and for some reason always mix up people from the two. > > Did you know Mike Mikus, Lenny Gamberg or Ron Jacobs? Can you post a school > > picture since I don't know how to get onto the MIU yearbook site? It is > > nice not to be talking about Robin for a change. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > wrote: > > > > > > That's what you call a world class jawline son! Beautiful. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > > > [fbPhotosSnowboxCaption] H [fbPhotosSnowboxCaption] OOoooopopo > > > > > > > > > > > > Are we allowed to put photos on our posts and if so how? Also, I > > > > > > sent > > > > > a picture to the album 'FFL members' and it hasn't appeared. Any > > > > > ideas? > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: > > > > > > > > I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but > > > > > > > > American citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two > > > > > > > > retail stores, was a professional horse rider/trainer for 30 > > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > Can you post a school picture since I don't know how to get onto the MIU > yearbook site? Here is where to find MIU yearbooks. They are large files, so they take time to load. Change the date in the URL to see different years. http://www.mum.edu/pdf_yearbooks/1979.pdf
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
Absolutely Ann, I spent some time studying that classic jawline of yours back in the day! I knew those guys you mentioned but we hung in different circles so I can't remember a single conversation with you. I can see you laughing though. Odd memories swirling of all of us stuck in LC1 with lots of time to stare at each other. Jon Shear was the philosophy professor and I mentioned him because at first I thought you were someone else who was in my philosophy major. She had a sister there too and got initiated at your age. My best pictures are at my site at curtis (I put this here so it isn't a link, so make it one word) blues.com If those don't jog a memory a younger one wont help I'll bet. I graduated in '79. Did you get your sidhis on the Summer course in '78? That was a great time. I went on to sidhaland for 4 years to get credit for TTC, taught TM in DC where I put down roots, I've been here ever since. I love the ethnic diversity and the outlets for my music. I left the movement in '89 and reformatted my hard drive from all TM to no TM. I believe that everything I was seeking from TM just comes from growing up. I love being my age now,this is the best time of my life. But I had good times in the movement, and although I don't believe Maharishi was actually right about very much, I loved the 15 year ride. How many other bluesmen can say they lived as a monk for a few years! It is part of my weird puzzle and discussing it here has made me reevaluate the pros and cons. I got so much out of it that was positive, just not the things I thought I was getting. On the non Robin front, anything you want to rap about horses will be of interest. Especially your bond with their intelligence. I love animals but have had only a limited exposure to horses when I was young. Oh yeah, and what do you sell in those stores of yours? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > While we are on the subject, do you recognize me from MIU Curtis? What year > did you graduate? You mentioned John Shear. Was that a prof or student? I > always get my schools all mixed up with names. I went to ASL (American School > in London) and for some reason always mix up people from the two. Did you > know Mike Mikus, Lenny Gamberg or Ron Jacobs? Can you post a school picture > since I don't know how to get onto the MIU yearbook site? It is nice not to > be talking about Robin for a change. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > That's what you call a world class jawline son! Beautiful. > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > [fbPhotosSnowboxCaption] H [fbPhotosSnowboxCaption] OOoooopopo > > > > > > > > > > Are we allowed to put photos on our posts and if so how? Also, I sent > > > > a picture to the album 'FFL members' and it hasn't appeared. Any ideas? > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: > > > > > > > I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but > > > > > > > American citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two > > > > > > > retail stores, was a professional horse rider/trainer for 30 > > > > > > > years. I am married to a non-WTS Canadian man. Have three dogs, > > > > > > > two horses and don't meditate regularly anymore. Two step kids, > > > > > > > well grown up. > > > > > > > Do you need a picture or other info? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the info, but I wasn't really looking for it. > > > > > > I was just trying to point out that the profile you thought > > > > > > was publicly viewable wasn't, and thus to the casual reader > > > > > > you were just as anonymous as any of the other anonymous > > > > > > posters here. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks also (in another post) for your update on what brought > > > > > > you here. What you wind up posting or not posting is up to > > > > > > you, and I wish you well with it. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that > > > > > > seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions > > > > > > with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC > > > > > > becoming violent with his students, including pushing or > > > > > > shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. > > > > > > Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* > > > > > > true. > > > > > > > > > > > > Me, because I wasn't there, I don't know. If you have any > > > > > > light to shed on this it would be interesting, because I > > > > > > for one don't trust the memory of what he did and did not > > > > > > do 25 t
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
While we are on the subject, do you recognize me from MIU Curtis? What year did you graduate? You mentioned John Shear. Was that a prof or student? I always get my schools all mixed up with names. I went to ASL (American School in London) and for some reason always mix up people from the two. Did you know Mike Mikus, Lenny Gamberg or Ron Jacobs? Can you post a school picture since I don't know how to get onto the MIU yearbook site? It is nice not to be talking about Robin for a change. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > That's what you call a world class jawline son! Beautiful. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > [fbPhotosSnowboxCaption] H [fbPhotosSnowboxCaption] OOoooopopo > > > > > > > > Are we allowed to put photos on our posts and if so how? Also, I sent > > > a picture to the album 'FFL members' and it hasn't appeared. Any ideas? > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: > > > > > > I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but > > > > > > American citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two > > > > > > retail stores, was a professional horse rider/trainer for 30 > > > > > > years. I am married to a non-WTS Canadian man. Have three dogs, > > > > > > two horses and don't meditate regularly anymore. Two step kids, > > > > > > well grown up. > > > > > > Do you need a picture or other info? > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the info, but I wasn't really looking for it. > > > > > I was just trying to point out that the profile you thought > > > > > was publicly viewable wasn't, and thus to the casual reader > > > > > you were just as anonymous as any of the other anonymous > > > > > posters here. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks also (in another post) for your update on what brought > > > > > you here. What you wind up posting or not posting is up to > > > > > you, and I wish you well with it. > > > > > > > > > > I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that > > > > > seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions > > > > > with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC > > > > > becoming violent with his students, including pushing or > > > > > shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. > > > > > Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* > > > > > true. > > > > > > > > > > Me, because I wasn't there, I don't know. If you have any > > > > > light to shed on this it would be interesting, because I > > > > > for one don't trust the memory of what he did and did not > > > > > do 25 to 30 years ago to a person I suspect could have been > > > > > more than a little delusional at the time. > > > > > > > > > > My experience with spiritual teachers or former spiritual > > > > > teachers who look back on their lives is that their version > > > > > of events is *rarely* to be trusted. They tend to practice > > > > > revisionist history on their own history. IMO many times > > > > > they do this unconsciously or subconsciously, at other times > > > > > they do it quite consciously. I know, for example, that if > > > > > one had asked the fellow I hung with for a while (Rama - > > > > > Frederick Lenz) whether he had ever struck any of his > > > > > students, he would have looked straight into the asker's > > > > > face (or into the camera) and declared an emphatic "No." > > > > > In my opinion he would even have *believed* it as he was > > > > > saying it. But since I actually witnessed him doing this > > > > > a couple of times, and have heard first-hand testimony > > > > > from others confirming that he struck them, I have come > > > > > to the conclusion that his version of events was not to > > > > > be trusted. > > > > > > > > > > This is what I'm curious about with regard to RWC. He seems > > > > > to be claiming emphatically that he never struck any of his > > > > > students, at any time. Others claim the opposite. You're > > > > > the first person to appear here who seems to have been in > > > > > a position to comment on these claims and counter-claims > > > > > one way or another. I can certainly understand if you don't > > > > > want to, but that was my main motivation in urging you to > > > > > go into a little more depth about what it was like to be > > > > > around him in those days. > > > > > > > > > > Suit yourself. Talk, don't talk, whatever. :-) I'm just > > > > > clarifying what I was really trying to convey to you orig- > > > > > inally. That is, that in your early posts here you seemed > > > > > to assume that many or most of us already knew what it > > > > > was like to actually be part of WTS and hang with Robin
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow, is right!
That's what you call a world class jawline son! Beautiful. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seventhray1" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > [fbPhotosSnowboxCaption] H [fbPhotosSnowboxCaption] OOoooopopo > > > > > > Are we allowed to put photos on our posts and if so how? Also, I sent > > a picture to the album 'FFL members' and it hasn't appeared. Any ideas? > > > Thanks > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: > > > > > I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but > > > > > American citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two > > > > > retail stores, was a professional horse rider/trainer for 30 > > > > > years. I am married to a non-WTS Canadian man. Have three dogs, > > > > > two horses and don't meditate regularly anymore. Two step kids, > > > > > well grown up. > > > > > Do you need a picture or other info? > > > > > > > > Thanks for all the info, but I wasn't really looking for it. > > > > I was just trying to point out that the profile you thought > > > > was publicly viewable wasn't, and thus to the casual reader > > > > you were just as anonymous as any of the other anonymous > > > > posters here. > > > > > > > > Thanks also (in another post) for your update on what brought > > > > you here. What you wind up posting or not posting is up to > > > > you, and I wish you well with it. > > > > > > > > I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that > > > > seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions > > > > with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC > > > > becoming violent with his students, including pushing or > > > > shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. > > > > Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* > > > > true. > > > > > > > > Me, because I wasn't there, I don't know. If you have any > > > > light to shed on this it would be interesting, because I > > > > for one don't trust the memory of what he did and did not > > > > do 25 to 30 years ago to a person I suspect could have been > > > > more than a little delusional at the time. > > > > > > > > My experience with spiritual teachers or former spiritual > > > > teachers who look back on their lives is that their version > > > > of events is *rarely* to be trusted. They tend to practice > > > > revisionist history on their own history. IMO many times > > > > they do this unconsciously or subconsciously, at other times > > > > they do it quite consciously. I know, for example, that if > > > > one had asked the fellow I hung with for a while (Rama - > > > > Frederick Lenz) whether he had ever struck any of his > > > > students, he would have looked straight into the asker's > > > > face (or into the camera) and declared an emphatic "No." > > > > In my opinion he would even have *believed* it as he was > > > > saying it. But since I actually witnessed him doing this > > > > a couple of times, and have heard first-hand testimony > > > > from others confirming that he struck them, I have come > > > > to the conclusion that his version of events was not to > > > > be trusted. > > > > > > > > This is what I'm curious about with regard to RWC. He seems > > > > to be claiming emphatically that he never struck any of his > > > > students, at any time. Others claim the opposite. You're > > > > the first person to appear here who seems to have been in > > > > a position to comment on these claims and counter-claims > > > > one way or another. I can certainly understand if you don't > > > > want to, but that was my main motivation in urging you to > > > > go into a little more depth about what it was like to be > > > > around him in those days. > > > > > > > > Suit yourself. Talk, don't talk, whatever. :-) I'm just > > > > clarifying what I was really trying to convey to you orig- > > > > inally. That is, that in your early posts here you seemed > > > > to assume that many or most of us already knew what it > > > > was like to actually be part of WTS and hang with Robin > > > > at that time. We don't. All that we do know are in the > > > > form of claims and counter-claims, all as yet unresolved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > > > > > > > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > > > > > > > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > > > > > > > profile" and it will come up. > > > > > > > > > > > > Tried that. It comes up with a big "Not Found" page for me. > > > > > > You may be seeing it because you created the profile, but > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
There seems to be lots of interest no this hitting or no hitting subject. I am at work and will reply to all of this tonight when I have more time. And Judy, thanks for the photo prompts, I will give that a "go" as well later. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that > > seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions > > with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC > > becoming violent with his students, including pushing or > > shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. > > Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* > > true. > > > This is what I'm curious about with regard to RWC. He seems > > to be claiming emphatically that he never struck any of his > > students, at any time. > > I can't find anywhere that Robin has made this claim. > > For the record, here's what Robin said to Barry on > January 13: > > "This is a crude and misinformed and inaccurate description > of what went on between 1976 and 1986. I never once struck > someone *on stage*" (emphasis added). > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/301675 > > It's conceivable he was leaving himself a bit of leeway. > He's also said he never struck anyone *during his seminars*. > > There may be more to all this, but let's at least not put > words in his mouth. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that > seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions > with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC > becoming violent with his students, including pushing or > shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. > Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* > true. > This is what I'm curious about with regard to RWC. He seems > to be claiming emphatically that he never struck any of his > students, at any time. I can't find anywhere that Robin has made this claim. For the record, here's what Robin said to Barry on January 13: "This is a crude and misinformed and inaccurate description of what went on between 1976 and 1986. I never once struck someone *on stage*" (emphasis added). http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/301675 It's conceivable he was leaving himself a bit of leeway. He's also said he never struck anyone *during his seminars*. There may be more to all this, but let's at least not put words in his mouth.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > Also, I sent a picture to the album 'FFL members' and it hasn't > appeared. Any ideas? It must not have successfully uploaded, because pics have to be approved by a moderator, and there haven't been any pics uploaded by you in the "pending" queue.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > Are we allowed to put photos on our posts and if so how? Use the Rich-Text Editor. If you're posting from the Web, the link appears near the top after you hit Reply. For it to appear in a post, the photo has to live on the Web somewhere; you can't post a photo that's on your hard disk. You could open a Flickr account and upload it there from your hard drive, then copy it from Flickr into the post. Here's how, at least for Windows. The procedure is probably roughly similar with a Mac: Put the cursor in the Rich-Text message window where you want the picture to appear. Then open another tab and go to the Web site that hosts the picture. Right-click on the picture and click Copy on the drop-down menu. Now switch back to the Rich-Text window, right-click, and click Paste on the drop-down menu. The picture should now appear in your message. (Sometimes this doesn't work, for a variety of reasons I'm not clear on. Sometimes the picture will even appear in the Rich Text window neat as you please, but then when you post it, it will have disappeared. It all works as it should maybe 8 times out of 10 for me.) > Also, I sent a picture to the album 'FFL members' and it > hasn't appeared. Any ideas? One of the moderators has to approve anything uploaded to the Photos section before it will appear. Could take a day or two.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Love that saying but I am hoping the porcine aspects will be replaced by doves. Now I'll have to look you up! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "jpgillam" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > I attended MIU from the Fall of 1975 until graduation in 1980. > > We were at MIU at the same time, Ann, although we > did not hang out together. I had to open a yearbook > to place you. Welcome to Fairfield Life, the slogan > of which is, "Where every pearl finds its swine." > > - Patrick Gillam >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Are we allowed to put photos on our posts and if so how? Also, I sent a picture to the album 'FFL members' and it hasn't appeared. Any ideas? Thanks --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: > > I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but > > American citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two > > retail stores, was a professional horse rider/trainer for 30 > > years. I am married to a non-WTS Canadian man. Have three dogs, > > two horses and don't meditate regularly anymore. Two step kids, > > well grown up. > > Do you need a picture or other info? > > Thanks for all the info, but I wasn't really looking for it. > I was just trying to point out that the profile you thought > was publicly viewable wasn't, and thus to the casual reader > you were just as anonymous as any of the other anonymous > posters here. > > Thanks also (in another post) for your update on what brought > you here. What you wind up posting or not posting is up to > you, and I wish you well with it. > > I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that > seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions > with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC > becoming violent with his students, including pushing or > shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. > Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* > true. > > Me, because I wasn't there, I don't know. If you have any > light to shed on this it would be interesting, because I > for one don't trust the memory of what he did and did not > do 25 to 30 years ago to a person I suspect could have been > more than a little delusional at the time. > > My experience with spiritual teachers or former spiritual > teachers who look back on their lives is that their version > of events is *rarely* to be trusted. They tend to practice > revisionist history on their own history. IMO many times > they do this unconsciously or subconsciously, at other times > they do it quite consciously. I know, for example, that if > one had asked the fellow I hung with for a while (Rama - > Frederick Lenz) whether he had ever struck any of his > students, he would have looked straight into the asker's > face (or into the camera) and declared an emphatic "No." > In my opinion he would even have *believed* it as he was > saying it. But since I actually witnessed him doing this > a couple of times, and have heard first-hand testimony > from others confirming that he struck them, I have come > to the conclusion that his version of events was not to > be trusted. > > This is what I'm curious about with regard to RWC. He seems > to be claiming emphatically that he never struck any of his > students, at any time. Others claim the opposite. You're > the first person to appear here who seems to have been in > a position to comment on these claims and counter-claims > one way or another. I can certainly understand if you don't > want to, but that was my main motivation in urging you to > go into a little more depth about what it was like to be > around him in those days. > > Suit yourself. Talk, don't talk, whatever. :-) I'm just > clarifying what I was really trying to convey to you orig- > inally. That is, that in your early posts here you seemed > to assume that many or most of us already knew what it > was like to actually be part of WTS and hang with Robin > at that time. We don't. All that we do know are in the > form of claims and counter-claims, all as yet unresolved. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > > > > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > > > > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > > > > profile" and it will come up. > > > > > > Tried that. It comes up with a big "Not Found" page for me. > > > You may be seeing it because you created the profile, but > > > we may be unable to see it because of the settings you > > > chose (even if you didn't realize it) when setting up > > > your account. Your last sentence above makes me suspect > > > that this is the issue; I never see any "Your Profile" > > > link. > > > > > > > But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann Woelfle > > > > Bater. What is a TB? > > > > > > Good to meet you. TB is an acronym for True Believer. No > > > offense intended, but if you hung in there with Robin > > > through all the ups and downs, I suspect you probably > > > qualified at the time. > > > > > > That said, I'm more interested in who you are today. As > > > hinted at in my earlier messages, I don't really have > > > that much interest in Robin, past or present. What I do > > > have an abiding inter
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > I attended MIU from the Fall of 1975 until graduation in 1980. We were at MIU at the same time, Ann, although we did not hang out together. I had to open a yearbook to place you. Welcome to Fairfield Life, the slogan of which is, "Where every pearl finds its swine." - Patrick Gillam
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
> > I still do TM/Sahaj and TM-Sanyama... > > Vaj: > I tend to use mantra as a semde practice... > 'Semde' is Tibetan for the Sanskrit 'cittavarga': meditation on one's innate awareness, which is it's natural state of pure consciousness (citta) - that's why they called it the 'Mind School' in Tibet. In Tibetan Dzogchen practice, yoga is just 'being aware of being aware' (rigpa). A bija mantra is treated just like any other thought - they all are realized to be just mental projections of the mind. According Sogyal Rinpoche, meditation is simply resting, undistracted, in the View, once it has been introduced. Meditation states Rinpoche, "is not striving, but naturally becoming assimilated into it" (Sogyal 163). "I like to say we have to begin by babysitting our Rigpa, in the secure environment of meditation." - Sogyal Rinpoche Work cited: 'The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying' By Sogyal Rinpoche HarperCollins, 2002
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 21, 2012, at 8:26 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that > seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions > with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC > becoming violent with his students, including pushing or > shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. > Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* > true. That's not what I said. At the end (at least as far as I was concerned) friends insisted I (and my young wife at the time) see a video of R. in which he pounds his fists on a student. This was not "punching" per se, but (remember I'm recalling events from c. 1985 or so) but someone at the point of total frustration. I never saw this particular confrontation in person and it would have been nice to hear Robindra's side of the story - but he denies it ever happened. All I know is that after that, he disappeared off my radar or the friends who were connected to him. The gig was up. I had already moved on. I do not remember who the person was and just vaguely remember it was a women. I'm now wondering if it was Ann. I'd have to make some phonecalls to refresh my memory. Ann is in a unique place in that not only was she an insider - she remained in R's hometown and thus very likely may have remained in contact with others after the dissolution.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: > > I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but > > American citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two > > retail stores, was a professional horse rider/trainer for 30 > > years. I am married to a non-WTS Canadian man. Have three dogs, > > two horses and don't meditate regularly anymore. Two step kids, > > well grown up. > > Do you need a picture or other info? > > Thanks for all the info, but I wasn't really looking for it. > I was just trying to point out that the profile you thought > was publicly viewable wasn't, and thus to the casual reader > you were just as anonymous as any of the other anonymous > posters here. > > Thanks also (in another post) for your update on what brought > you here. What you wind up posting or not posting is up to > you, and I wish you well with it. > > I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that > seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions > with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC > becoming violent with his students, including pushing or > shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. > Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* > true. > > Me, because I wasn't there, I don't know. If you have any > light to shed on this it would be interesting, because I > for one don't trust the memory of what he did and did not > do 25 to 30 years ago to a person I suspect could have been > more than a little delusional at the time. > > My experience with spiritual teachers or former spiritual > teachers who look back on their lives is that their version > of events is *rarely* to be trusted. They tend to practice > revisionist history on their own history. IMO many times > they do this unconsciously or subconsciously, at other times > they do it quite consciously. I know, for example, that if > one had asked the fellow I hung with for a while (Rama - > Frederick Lenz) whether he had ever struck any of his > students, he would have looked straight into the asker's > face (or into the camera) and declared an emphatic "No." > In my opinion he would even have *believed* it as he was > saying it. But since I actually witnessed him doing this > a couple of times, and have heard first-hand testimony > from others confirming that he struck them, I have come > to the conclusion that his version of events was not to > be trusted. > > This is what I'm curious about with regard to RWC. He seems > to be claiming emphatically that he never struck any of his > students, at any time. Others claim the opposite. You're > the first person to appear here who seems to have been in > a position to comment on these claims and counter-claims > one way or another. I can certainly understand if you don't > want to, but that was my main motivation in urging you to > go into a little more depth about what it was like to be > around him in those days. > > Suit yourself. Talk, don't talk, whatever. :-) I'm just > clarifying what I was really trying to convey to you orig- > inally. That is, that in your early posts here you seemed > to assume that many or most of us already knew what it > was like to actually be part of WTS and hang with Robin > at that time. We don't. All that we do know are in the > form of claims and counter-claims, all as yet unresolved. Me, too. Barry, thanks for explaining in your usual clear and well-thought-out and well-written fashion exactly what I was thinking and feeling. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > > > > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > > > > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > > > > profile" and it will come up. > > > > > > Tried that. It comes up with a big "Not Found" page for me. > > > You may be seeing it because you created the profile, but > > > we may be unable to see it because of the settings you > > > chose (even if you didn't realize it) when setting up > > > your account. Your last sentence above makes me suspect > > > that this is the issue; I never see any "Your Profile" > > > link. > > > > > > > But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann Woelfle > > > > Bater. What is a TB? > > > > > > Good to meet you. TB is an acronym for True Believer. No > > > offense intended, but if you hung in there with Robin > > > through all the ups and downs, I suspect you probably > > > qualified at the time. > > > > > > That said, I'm more interested in who you are today. As > > > hinted at in my earlier messages, I don't really have > > > that much interest in Robin, past or present. What I do > > > have an abiding intere
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: > I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but > American citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two > retail stores, was a professional horse rider/trainer for 30 > years. I am married to a non-WTS Canadian man. Have three dogs, > two horses and don't meditate regularly anymore. Two step kids, > well grown up. > Do you need a picture or other info? Thanks for all the info, but I wasn't really looking for it. I was just trying to point out that the profile you thought was publicly viewable wasn't, and thus to the casual reader you were just as anonymous as any of the other anonymous posters here. Thanks also (in another post) for your update on what brought you here. What you wind up posting or not posting is up to you, and I wish you well with it. I guess the only thing I'm wondering about is the thing that seems to have set Robin off the most in his interactions with Vaj. Vaj says that he and other people witnessed RWC becoming violent with his students, including pushing or shoving them onstage or allegedly actually hitting them. Robin claims that this is not true, and that it was *never* true. Me, because I wasn't there, I don't know. If you have any light to shed on this it would be interesting, because I for one don't trust the memory of what he did and did not do 25 to 30 years ago to a person I suspect could have been more than a little delusional at the time. My experience with spiritual teachers or former spiritual teachers who look back on their lives is that their version of events is *rarely* to be trusted. They tend to practice revisionist history on their own history. IMO many times they do this unconsciously or subconsciously, at other times they do it quite consciously. I know, for example, that if one had asked the fellow I hung with for a while (Rama - Frederick Lenz) whether he had ever struck any of his students, he would have looked straight into the asker's face (or into the camera) and declared an emphatic "No." In my opinion he would even have *believed* it as he was saying it. But since I actually witnessed him doing this a couple of times, and have heard first-hand testimony from others confirming that he struck them, I have come to the conclusion that his version of events was not to be trusted. This is what I'm curious about with regard to RWC. He seems to be claiming emphatically that he never struck any of his students, at any time. Others claim the opposite. You're the first person to appear here who seems to have been in a position to comment on these claims and counter-claims one way or another. I can certainly understand if you don't want to, but that was my main motivation in urging you to go into a little more depth about what it was like to be around him in those days. Suit yourself. Talk, don't talk, whatever. :-) I'm just clarifying what I was really trying to convey to you orig- inally. That is, that in your early posts here you seemed to assume that many or most of us already knew what it was like to actually be part of WTS and hang with Robin at that time. We don't. All that we do know are in the form of claims and counter-claims, all as yet unresolved. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > > > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > > > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > > > profile" and it will come up. > > > > Tried that. It comes up with a big "Not Found" page for me. > > You may be seeing it because you created the profile, but > > we may be unable to see it because of the settings you > > chose (even if you didn't realize it) when setting up > > your account. Your last sentence above makes me suspect > > that this is the issue; I never see any "Your Profile" > > link. > > > > > But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann Woelfle > > > Bater. What is a TB? > > > > Good to meet you. TB is an acronym for True Believer. No > > offense intended, but if you hung in there with Robin > > through all the ups and downs, I suspect you probably > > qualified at the time. > > > > That said, I'm more interested in who you are today. As > > hinted at in my earlier messages, I don't really have > > that much interest in Robin, past or present. What I do > > have an abiding interest in is people's experiences with > > groups or organizations that they later come to describe > > with the word "cult." Been there, done that. I love to > > hear other people's impressions of what that was like for > > them -- at the time, during the "walking away" process if > > that happened, and now, in retrospect. That's all I was > > encouraging you to rap about, and only if you feel > > comforta
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 20, 2012, at 9:04 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: > I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but American > citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two retail stores, was a > professional horse rider/trainer for 30 years. I am married to a non-WTS > Canadian man. Have three dogs, two horses and don't meditate regularly > anymore. Two step kids, well grown up. > Do you need a picture or other info? Wow! One of my favorite cities. Lucky you!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 20, 2012, at 7:53 PM, emptybill wrote: > > So you actually still do your program? > Or was that meant to be past tense? > > Depends upon what you mean by "program". > > I still do TM/Sahaj and TM-Sanyama using > (at Khachab's suggestion) a few sutras that are pertinent > to prabhasvara, particularly hrid antar-jyoti. > He also gave me some suggestions about how to use > jyoti-sagara/jyoti-samudra as part of the sequence of > prana-manas dissolutions. > > He seemed to like the analogy of recognizing a swell rather > than only being able to notice a full wave once it formed. > > I then start Ekajati sadhana out of silent awareness and do > her mantra for a while ... only I dwell with it in Sahaj style, > not just performing some japa. > > > > Don't you still do yours? So, no, you'd be considered off the (TMSP) program. ;-) I tend to use mantra as a semde practice if I am doing a particular diety-yoga or for protector practice, etc. For Ekajati practice, I use the Anuyoga style. But you can integrate everything - there is an easy bridge between TM-style samyama - and that bridge is semde for me.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Thanks Curtis, Peggy is amazing and the reunion was worth it. Marny Pavelka was my best friend back at MIU and she attended. It was amazing to see so many old faces. I have lots of pictures from the event. Try to make the next one. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > Hi Ann, > > I had totally guessed wrong! Thanks for your response. We weren't buddies > at MIU but I do remember you now that I've seen your pic. The yearbooks are > all online at:http://www.mum.edu/pdf_yearbooks/ My last name begins with M. > I keep it off this board because I work under a stage name and like to keep > the worlds from colliding! > > Andy blew our minds back in '75! In retrospect I understand how cool it all > was but it was all a bit much for me back then. And I do remember his > connection with Pam. > > Peggy is rocking the corporate lecture circuit, what an exceptional human. I > haven't seen her in years but checked out her Website. > Mine is at curtis (no space here) blues dot com > > I didn't make it to the reunion but heard about it and envy your going. I > had gigs then, but would have otherwise loved to have seen everybody. We > were such an unusual bunch weren't we? As far as I have drifted from the > movement, I never regret that I did collage sober! MIU was great for me even > if I have lost all my "spiritual" perspective since then. > > My sister is buddies with Josie who is doing fascinating work for child > actors in Cali. > > FFL can be an interesting place to write into. But it isn't for everybody > that's for sure. I'm glad you dropped in and you will always have eager > readers for any perspectives you have on your life's journey here,Robin > oriented or not. It has helped me integrate parts of my past with who I am > now. > > All the best, > > Curtis > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > Hey Curtis, I thought my name was right out there - Ann Woelfle. It all > > sounds right, your MIU memories but I would have to look at a yearbook to > > put a face to your name. I was really good friends with Marny and Mike and > > Lenny and Ron and lots of others. Even worked at Peggy O'Neils back in the > > day. I remember when Andy Kaufman was in town and he had a visit down there > > to the restaurant and stayed for an after-party. I remember quite vividly > > dancing like a maniac to the B-52's. He actually dated Pam Paradowski for a > > while. > > > > Anyway, "hi". As fun as this has been I might not stick around this site, > > however. I'm not really interested in anonymous shenanigans or guessing > > games. I don't mind talking about my "Robin" days but really don't like the > > negativity coming off of some of the posts. It is so easy to goof around on > > the internet, become someone else, say and act in ways you would never > > dream of to someone's face. Not really my thing. > > > > But thanks for making this connection. I take it you didn't attend the MIU > > reunion in Santa Barbara a couple of years ago? I went and saw hundreds of > > people I hadn't seen for 30 years. Peggy O'Neil and Josie Batorski > > organized it. > > > > I am choosing carefully what posts I will read in future, whether the title > > is "wow" or not. But thank you for your good-natured post, I appreciate it > > and will look you up in that yearbook. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > wrote: > > > > > > awoelflebater, the latest FFL pot stirrer, welcome. I think the pieces > > > fell into place for me, we shared a class with Jonathan Shear, didn't we? > > > How have you been? Feel free to remain anonymous here if I have it > > > right. We all have our reasons for choosing how we present ourselves > > > here. But I use my real first name Curtis and you might remember me for > > > playing harmonica at school events if not for being such an earnest > > > little thing in our Plato class. > > > > > > For what its worth I think it is most likely that Vaj had direct > > > experience with Robin, although perhaps not as extensive as your own. I > > > suggest contacting him offline, as he has invited, if you want to discuss > > > old times, you wont get much on this public board. > > > > > > But for me, again if I have it right, you are a delightfully colorful > > > bright addition who could definitely add to the mix if you choose to > > > spend some time writing here. I hope you do. But take your time and > > > decide how many cards you want to show here in public. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 20, 2012, at 6:52 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, maybe there was something she > > > > > > actually felt or experienced that she can convey to > > > > > > us to help us under
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Ok, sorry, told you I was not great with computers. Here it is: I am female, 55 years old, American/Canadian dual citizen but American citizen originally. I live in Victoria, BC. I own two retail stores, was a professional horse rider/trainer for 30 years. I am married to a non-WTS Canadian man. Have three dogs, two horses and don't meditate regularly anymore. Two step kids, well grown up. Do you need a picture or other info? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > > profile" and it will come up. > > Tried that. It comes up with a big "Not Found" page for me. > You may be seeing it because you created the profile, but > we may be unable to see it because of the settings you > chose (even if you didn't realize it) when setting up > your account. Your last sentence above makes me suspect > that this is the issue; I never see any "Your Profile" > link. > > > But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann Woelfle > > Bater. What is a TB? > > Good to meet you. TB is an acronym for True Believer. No > offense intended, but if you hung in there with Robin > through all the ups and downs, I suspect you probably > qualified at the time. > > That said, I'm more interested in who you are today. As > hinted at in my earlier messages, I don't really have > that much interest in Robin, past or present. What I do > have an abiding interest in is people's experiences with > groups or organizations that they later come to describe > with the word "cult." Been there, done that. I love to > hear other people's impressions of what that was like for > them -- at the time, during the "walking away" process if > that happened, and now, in retrospect. That's all I was > encouraging you to rap about, and only if you feel > comfortable doing so. My original posts were meant as > a reminder that most of us here don't have the faintest > clue what "studying with RWC" or attending his seminars > or whatever you call it was like. Assuming that we do > leaves us in the dark. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > > > > > Excuse me? > > > > > > I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but > > > these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- > > > inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see > > > not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo > > > itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing > > > something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. > > > > > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > > > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > > > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > > > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > > > that big of a deal. :-) > > > > > > Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should > > > remember and almost revere your experiences, when in > > > actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we > > > weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't > > > all that important*. To you, all involved in them, > > > they might have seemed more important, but to me, > > > it's a little like the two of you are describing > > > going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating > > > it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) > > > > > > Try to remember that most here don't have any idea > > > what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want > > > to say something about what it was like to hang > > > with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance. > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
> So you actually still do your program? Or was that meant to be past tense? Depends upon what you mean by "program". I still do TM/Sahaj and TM-Sanyama using (at Khachab's suggestion) a few sutras that are pertinent to prabhasvara, particularly hrid antar-jyoti. He also gave me some suggestions about how to use jyoti-sagara/jyoti-samudra as part of the sequence of prana-manas dissolutions. He seemed to like the analogy of recognizing a swell rather than only being able to notice a full wave once it formed. I then start Ekajati sadhana out of silent awareness and do her mantra for a while ... only I dwell with it in Sahaj style, not just performing some japa. Don't you still do yours? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 19, 2012, at 10:18 PM, emptybill wrote: > > > The reality is that I practice TM/TM-Sidhi > > > So you actually still do your program? Or was that meant to be past > tense? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > See Judy, your intelligent, thoughtful voice has come > through again. Maybe it is a woman thing!! ;-) ;-) ;-) Sisterhood is powerful. Carry on, sister! "I myself have never been able to find out precisely what a feminist is, I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat."--Rebecca West
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > Susan, your apology to Ann was very gracious. I had > one quick clarification I wanted to make to what I > said to you: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > > Something off about it all, right from the beginning. > > > > > > Great, let's now see what kind of psychiatric diagnosis > > > we can pin on Ann. > > > > A psychiatric diagnosis was not at all what I was even > > thinking. That idea is yours. > > My comment was a reference to a particularly odious > episode around Christmas when several people here were > slapping psychiatric diagnostic labels on Robin. No, > of course you weren't thinking any such thing. I was > being sarcastic. Your comments about Ann seemed to me > unfair--which you've acknowledged, to your great > credit--so I made the association with the way Robin > was treated. That's all I meant, and I withdraw the > comment with my own apology. > Apology accepted. I knew you really referencing the labeling of Robin.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Susan, your apology to Ann was very gracious. I had one quick clarification I wanted to make to what I said to you: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > Something off about it all, right from the beginning. > > > > Great, let's now see what kind of psychiatric diagnosis > > we can pin on Ann. > > A psychiatric diagnosis was not at all what I was even > thinking. That idea is yours. My comment was a reference to a particularly odious episode around Christmas when several people here were slapping psychiatric diagnostic labels on Robin. No, of course you weren't thinking any such thing. I was being sarcastic. Your comments about Ann seemed to me unfair--which you've acknowledged, to your great credit--so I made the association with the way Robin was treated. That's all I meant, and I withdraw the comment with my own apology.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
I think I owe an apology to you, Ann. When you arrived here a few days ago, I thought you had been asked by Robin to join FFL. The reason for that assumption is that he had recently asked if anyone who knew him back in the 70's and 80's would please post here about what he was like then and what it was like to be involved in his course. And you appeared! Robin wanted to defuse Vaj's comments about those times. I thought you were responding to that call from Robin. I also thought you would then clear up some of the issues between Vaj's perception of the events surrounding Robin, and Robin's own memories. Whether you are here to support Robin or not, I do not know. But your comments are interesting. Welcome. I described your posts as "evasive" because I wanted you to explain in more detail about your time with Robin. That was an unfair characterization by me. So, now that I am home from work and have a chance to read the posts of today and settle down and spend more than 30 seconds at FFL, I realize I made a mistake. You obviously have no obligation to answer questions about your time with Robin. Just enjoy your time here at FFL and, again, welcome. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > > Because there have been only very general statements and nothing > > > at all specific or informative, my vote is that this is a friend > > > of Robin's. Or Robin hmiself? > > > > Oh, Susan, good grief! Can you really not tell the > > huge difference in writing styles? Robin couldn't write > > in the uncomplicated manner Ann does if you held a gun > > to his head. > Different writing style, for sure. But an evasiveness that made me think, > initially, that she was affiliated with or was Robin trying to defend himself. > > > > > Something off about it all, right from the beginning. > > > > Great, let's now see what kind of psychiatric diagnosis > > we can pin on Ann. > > A psychiatric diagnosis was not at all what I was even thinking. That idea > is yours. > > > > What, pray, would be "off" about a friend of Robin's > > from his past showing up on FFL? Especially if she'd > > found out he was holding forth here? Remember, for 25 > > years he'd deliberately made himself inaccessible to > > his former followers. > > The off part is the evasiveness - talking about being heavily involved for > > 3 years, but never giving any details at all. I do recognize she might not > > want to give those details. Still I find it somewhat evasive. > > And why don't you express your suspicions to her face? > > I did post to her directly. > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Oh, that's a relief, I thought it meant "total b"( as in female dog) and I thought I was coming under the gun just a tad quickly for only having been her two days. Thank you for clarifying Richard. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Richard J. Williams" wrote: > > > > > > But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann > > > Woelfle Bater. What is a TB? > > > > authfriend: > > Stands for True Believer. Generally a derisive term > > around here. > > > Not the only 'TB' - don't forget the 'TurquoiseB' (TB). >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
See Judy, your intelligent, thoughtful voice has come through again. Maybe it is a woman thing!! --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > > > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > > > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > > > profile" and it will come up. > > > > Tried that. It comes up with a big "Not Found" page for me. > > You may be seeing it because you created the profile, but > > we may be unable to see it because of the settings you > > chose (even if you didn't realize it) when setting up > > your account. Your last sentence above makes me suspect > > that this is the issue; I never see any "Your Profile" > > link. > > Yes, you do: > > Not found > The page you were looking for doesn't exist. Go to your profile. > > "Go to your profile" is a live link. But it'll take you to > *your* profile, not Ann's. > > > > My original posts were meant as > > a reminder that most of us here don't have the faintest > > clue what "studying with RWC" or attending his seminars > > or whatever you call it was like. Assuming that we do > > leaves us in the dark. > > I can't find anything she's said that makes the > assumption that "we" know what it was like. The post > you were responding to was her reply to Vaj, who does > claim to know what it was all like. > > You don't seem to have read her posts with any > attention, beyond looking for something to criticize > her about. You picked wrong. > > Comment on your original post to Ann: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > > > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > > > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > > > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > > > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > > > > > > > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > > > > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > > > > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > > > > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > > > > that big of a deal. :-) > > First, Robin's MIU/Fairfield activities are hardly > "unremembered" around here. They've been discussed on > FFL for years. Most of us weren't there at the time, > but we've certainly heard the stories. > > Second, even little groups have big players and little > players. Ann was pointing out to Vaj that she was a big > player in Robin's group, so Vaj should have recognized > her name if he had been part of it as he claims. Not a > thing egotistical about that, just a statement of fact. > You're making a bigger deal of it than she has. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > Because there have been only very general statements and nothing > > at all specific or informative, my vote is that this is a friend > > of Robin's. Or Robin hmiself? > > Oh, Susan, good grief! Can you really not tell the > huge difference in writing styles? Robin couldn't write > in the uncomplicated manner Ann does if you held a gun > to his head. Different writing style, for sure. But an evasiveness that made me think, initially, that she was affiliated with or was Robin trying to defend himself. > > > Something off about it all, right from the beginning. > > Great, let's now see what kind of psychiatric diagnosis > we can pin on Ann. A psychiatric diagnosis was not at all what I was even thinking. That idea is yours. > > What, pray, would be "off" about a friend of Robin's > from his past showing up on FFL? Especially if she'd > found out he was holding forth here? Remember, for 25 > years he'd deliberately made himself inaccessible to > his former followers. > The off part is the evasiveness - talking about being heavily involved for 3 > years, but never giving any details at all. I do recognize she might not want > to give those details. Still I find it somewhat evasive. > And why don't you express your suspicions to her face? I did post to her directly. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
I agree. The only thing I read into Ann's comments is someone who is not afraid to put it out there. I felt, (feel) the same way about zarzari, although I think he started to get embedded in petty disputes with Judy that I felt were not productive. I hope, Ann, you will continue to elaborate on what you felt you got out of GTS (hope I have that right), and then what made you turn away, evidently is such a way that you felt you needed to expose the cult nature of the affair (hope I have that right) --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wayback71@ wrote: > > > Because there have been only very general statements and nothing > > at all specific or informative, my vote is that this is a friend > > of Robin's. Or Robin hmiself? > > Oh, Susan, good grief! Can you really not tell the > huge difference in writing styles? Robin couldn't write > in the uncomplicated manner Ann does if you held a gun > to his head. > > > Something off about it all, right from the beginning. > > Great, let's now see what kind of psychiatric diagnosis > we can pin on Ann. > > What, pray, would be "off" about a friend of Robin's > from his past showing up on FFL? Especially if she'd > found out he was holding forth here? Remember, for 25 > years he'd deliberately made himself inaccessible to > his former followers. > > And why don't you express your suspicions to her face? >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > Because there have been only very general statements and nothing > at all specific or informative, my vote is that this is a friend > of Robin's. Or Robin hmiself? Oh, Susan, good grief! Can you really not tell the huge difference in writing styles? Robin couldn't write in the uncomplicated manner Ann does if you held a gun to his head. > Something off about it all, right from the beginning. Great, let's now see what kind of psychiatric diagnosis we can pin on Ann. What, pray, would be "off" about a friend of Robin's from his past showing up on FFL? Especially if she'd found out he was holding forth here? Remember, for 25 years he'd deliberately made himself inaccessible to his former followers. And why don't you express your suspicions to her face?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
I've got to say that I am enjoying very much this continuing topic. But I feel I need to read the posts quickly not knowing if Rick, for some reason is going to delete huge swatches of posts in case someone raises an objection about something. Like, "Oh" I really didn't mean to reveal my name. Rick can you can delete any posts where my name or even remote association is used?" That said Ann, I'm really enjoying your input. There is nothing like someone who is willing to put it all out there. Thank you for that. Sounds like you rode the RWC experience through almost the full cycle. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 20, 2012, at 8:25 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > I wasn't getting that awoelflebater was a WTS TB, but perhaps > > > you're right. > > > > By her/his own accounts, *three years* pretty much > > constitutes a TB. I lasted less than three days when > > first exposed to Robin Carlsen. :-) > > > > Then there's the part about hanging in there after > > he could no longer return to Iowa for fear of prosecution. > > That's pretty TB. > > Good point. > > And really, anyone who let themselves enter into confrontation - > often in front of groups of others - had to not only be ready to dive > in head first, completely, nakedly vulnerable - there had to be some > belief that that process actually held some "evolutionary" value. > > > > > > > > By his or her own claim s/he underwent confrontation - but > > > failed. > > > > One wonders what "success" meant in such a situation. > > I am tempted to believe it entailed saying, "You're > > just the BEST, Robin, and everything you said about > > me is true...I shall amend my sinful ways immediately." :-) > > No, often such end states were very cathartic or the resolution was > one that dramatically affected the persons physical appearance and > their presence in the room. At the successful resolution of > confrontation, the audience benefitted from that resolution as well. > > But my feeling is that this style of catharsis will only work on a > small subset of people who are hypnotically very suggestible - esp. > R's various "manifestations" where he would manifest certain > ontological states, like a ride in Indra's chariot (my personal fave) > or the nervous systems experience of initial awakening, etc., etc. > It's a long list. > > > > > > > > This means s/he was likely expelled for that failure and > > > perhaps ostracized as well. S/he would have been declared > > > demonic and anathema. I'm assuming because of this outcome > > > s/he is not a very likely to be a WTS TB. > > > > I did use the words "*was* a TB." Did you miss that? > > > > Clearly, if she/he went so far as to go to the editor > > of a BC newspaper to denounce him, she/he wasn't still > > much of a TB at that time. > > True. And I do remember hearing word of this expose, but don't recall > ever reading it. > > > The "lingering traces" I > > see of former TB-dom also lie in the fact that she > > still hasn't mentioned any particulars of the practice, > > whether she now considers them positive or negative, and > > in the fact that she consistently refers to the experience > > in the same way that almost all former cultists speak of > > their involvement with a cult. If I'm not mistaken, she > > even called it a cult. > > That would be interesting for him/her to share. > > The only person I know who currently has expressed some significant > value from confrontation was Rory. I also suspect that this is part > of Rory's interest in the Chod: it developed from the insights he was > able to achieve. But from my own perspective one is an incredibly > powerful practice for awakening and also for integrating the shadow, > the other less so or not at all. > > > What I find most fascinating is that unless I have > > missed something (which is likely because I see his > > name in Message View and immediately move on to the > > next post without reading it), MZ himself doesn't > > seem all that anxious to interact with his former > > disciple. THAT speaks volumes to me, and leaves > > me to wonder about the possible reasons for that > > silence. > > Well there is a possibility R. has contacted an old friend to chime in. > > > One that pops to mind is that he's really enjoyed > > having his story about his own past be entirely one- > > sided up to now. His attacks on you have consistently > > been Judy-inspired attempts to pretend it really IS > > one-sided, because you never witnessed any of the > > things you speak of. > > Yeah, that's the key flaw, he actually believes/believed Judy's > strawmen are real. Although at some point, he seemed to awaken to the > Strawman Queen's nature. > > > But now we've got someone on > > the forum who claims to have been there on the front > > lines for three years. Seems to me a person as com- > > mitted to his own first person ontology and exposing > > it to challenges as RWC has claimed to be would be > > happy to interact with such
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Does unity exist as posited by someone else? Others do say this, Krishnamurti for example, although he did not call it this. He would point to a flower and say 'you are that flower'. If in fact something like unity exists as an experience, it seems it is generally ceded that it is beyond description. Therefore the description that *is* given, is like a metaphor, an image of what it might resemble, not what it *is* like. Many people seem to be having experiences like this now, not necessarily stable. I have the suspicion that those that do, tend not to stay in the movement, or drift to other movements where dealing with the ramifications of that experience is more clearly appreciated. If you graduate from your courses successfully, do you hang around your old teachers indefinitely? If the spiritual trip really works, you reclaim your whole life, so why keep acting as if you are still trying to find it? It's impossible. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > > > > Willy, UC is too deep an experience to be a 'deception' as > > Robin later claims. > > And you know that exactly *how*? Oh, I remember > now. The definition of UC is as it was proposed > by MMY, who probably got closer than a country > mile to it during his entire life. > > > I don't think Robin was ever in UC. > > I go further. I don't think UC exists, as posited > by MMY. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" wrote: > So perhaps Robin was over interpreting his experience, or he > had a deep experience, but not a stable one; he seems to > experience a lot of fluctuations. FWIW, he has said here that his experience of Unity was rock- solid stable for 10 years. He may have fluctuated, toward the end of those years, in what he believed in; but as I understand what he's written, those mental fluctuations were all within the consciousness context of the Unity experience. It wasn't until he became convinced that the experience was *fundamentally* deceptive and began to try to dismantle it that there was any change in it.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > > > Willy, UC is too deep an experience to be a 'deception' as > > Robin later claims. > > > > I don't think Robin was ever in UC. > > Just like TC might only last a moment, other experiences might > emerge temporarily without being stable. Absolutely. > While the emphasis on evolution in the TMO is described as a > seemingly seamless progression from one state of consciousness > to another, this is clearly just an averaging of possibilities. Absolutely. > In other traditions, experiences of unity are described which > are unstable. It lasts for a time, and in some way of course > is not complete, but the essential character of the experience > is there, and then for any number of unknown reasons, it is > not there. And that's all she wrote, pretty much all you can say about the experience. IMO, of course. > Also, depending on how much spiritual crap you have in your > intellect, you might misinterpret a particular experience as > unity. Such as the dissociation that accompanies certain states generally held to be psychopathic.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > Willy, UC is too deep an experience to be a 'deception' as > Robin later claims. > > I don't think Robin was ever in UC. Just like TC might only last a moment, other experiences might emerge temporarily without being stable. While the emphasis on evolution in the TMO is described as a seemingly seamless progression from one state of consciousness to another, this is clearly just an averaging of possibilities. In other traditions, experiences of unity are described which are unstable. It lasts for a time, and in some way of course is not complete, but the essential character of the experience is there, and then for any number of unknown reasons, it is not there. Also, depending on how much spiritual crap you have in your intellect, you might misinterpret a particular experience as unity. Maharishi once described different states of consciousness as like putting up a building. Even if the building is not finished, parts of the entire structure, such as incompletely finished upper floors, can be present. In actuality, all of what unity is is always present all the time, and we just do not realise it. One recognises what has always been the case, not something new. So perhaps Robin was over interpreting his experience, or he had a deep experience, but not a stable one; he seems to experience a lot of fluctuations. We spiritual people are a kind of crazy sub population of humanity, as if you can't tell just by reading this forum.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Jason" wrote: > > Willy, UC is too deep an experience to be a 'deception' as > Robin later claims. And you know that exactly *how*? Oh, I remember now. The definition of UC is as it was proposed by MMY, who probably got closer than a country mile to it during his entire life. > I don't think Robin was ever in UC. I go further. I don't think UC exists, as posited by MMY.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
> > > > awoelflebater: > > I have to admit the whole thing is pretty fascinating > > and I'd be happy to give you a better description but > > maybe you could tell me about yourself. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "richardatrwilliamsdotus" > wrote: > > From what I've read, "Robin Woodsworth Carlsen is the > first alleged enlightened being of the TM movement." > > Some people think that Robin went insane after a blast > of 'kundalini' energy almost unhinged him. No doubt it > was a very powerful experience, but Robin's writings on > FFL don't seem to be the work of a crazy person. > > Excerpt: > > "Carlsen was to return to Switzerland one more time for > yet another course before his final dissolution into Unity > Consciousness, and to sit at the feet of his master, the > Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. While Carlsen's autobiographical > work From Ignorance to Enlightenment covers the outline of > this final course, it does not go into the details of his > actual enlightenment..." Willy, UC is too deep an experience to be a 'deception' as Robin later claims. I don't think Robin was ever in UC. > > Work cited: > > 'The Sunnyside Drama: The First Three Years of > Enlightenment' > By Robin Woodsworth Carlsen > Snow Man Press, 1979 > > Other titles of interest: > > 'On First Meeting Werner Erhard and Est: A Memoir of > Deliberate Affirmation' > By Robin Woodsworth Carlsen > Snow Man Press, 1980 >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 20, 2012, at 8:25 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > I wasn't getting that awoelflebater was a WTS TB, but perhaps > > > you're right. > > > > By her/his own accounts, *three years* pretty much > > constitutes a TB. I lasted less than three days when > > first exposed to Robin Carlsen. :-) > > > > Then there's the part about hanging in there after > > he could no longer return to Iowa for fear of prosecution. > > That's pretty TB. > > Good point. > > And really, anyone who let themselves enter into confrontation - > often in front of groups of others - had to not only be ready to dive > in head first, completely, nakedly vulnerable - there had to be some > belief that that process actually held some "evolutionary" value. > > > > > > > > By his or her own claim s/he underwent confrontation - but > > > failed. > > > > One wonders what "success" meant in such a situation. > > I am tempted to believe it entailed saying, "You're > > just the BEST, Robin, and everything you said about > > me is true...I shall amend my sinful ways immediately." :-) > > No, often such end states were very cathartic or the resolution was > one that dramatically affected the persons physical appearance and > their presence in the room. At the successful resolution of > confrontation, the audience benefitted from that resolution as well. > > But my feeling is that this style of catharsis will only work on a > small subset of people who are hypnotically very suggestible - esp. > R's various "manifestations" where he would manifest certain > ontological states, like a ride in Indra's chariot (my personal fave) > or the nervous systems experience of initial awakening, etc., etc. > It's a long list. > > > > > > > > This means s/he was likely expelled for that failure and > > > perhaps ostracized as well. S/he would have been declared > > > demonic and anathema. I'm assuming because of this outcome > > > s/he is not a very likely to be a WTS TB. > > > > I did use the words "*was* a TB." Did you miss that? > > > > Clearly, if she/he went so far as to go to the editor > > of a BC newspaper to denounce him, she/he wasn't still > > much of a TB at that time. > > True. And I do remember hearing word of this expose, but don't recall > ever reading it. > > > The "lingering traces" I > > see of former TB-dom also lie in the fact that she > > still hasn't mentioned any particulars of the practice, > > whether she now considers them positive or negative, and > > in the fact that she consistently refers to the experience > > in the same way that almost all former cultists speak of > > their involvement with a cult. If I'm not mistaken, she > > even called it a cult. > > That would be interesting for him/her to share. > > The only person I know who currently has expressed some significant > value from confrontation was Rory. I also suspect that this is part > of Rory's interest in the Chod: it developed from the insights he was > able to achieve. But from my own perspective one is an incredibly > powerful practice for awakening and also for integrating the shadow, > the other less so or not at all. > > > What I find most fascinating is that unless I have > > missed something (which is likely because I see his > > name in Message View and immediately move on to the > > next post without reading it), MZ himself doesn't > > seem all that anxious to interact with his former > > disciple. THAT speaks volumes to me, and leaves > > me to wonder about the possible reasons for that > > silence. > > Well there is a possibility R. has contacted an old friend to chime in. > > > One that pops to mind is that he's really enjoyed > > having his story about his own past be entirely one- > > sided up to now. His attacks on you have consistently > > been Judy-inspired attempts to pretend it really IS > > one-sided, because you never witnessed any of the > > things you speak of. > > Yeah, that's the key flaw, he actually believes/believed Judy's > strawmen are real. Although at some point, he seemed to awaken to the > Strawman Queen's nature. > > > But now we've got someone on > > the forum who claims to have been there on the front > > lines for three years. Seems to me a person as com- > > mitted to his own first person ontology and exposing > > it to challenges as RWC has claimed to be would be > > happy to interact with such a person. Shouldn't he > > be at least interested in getting his long-overdue > > Report Card as a spiritual teacher? Now wouldn't > > THAT be a "confrontation" worth watching? :-) > > Like I said, this could be an old friend who's let by-gones be by- > gones, or it could be a disgruntled "demonic" former student who's > freshly arrived from hell. :-) > Because there have been only very general statements and nothing at all specific or informative, my vote is that this is a friend of Robin's. Or Robin hmiself? Something off
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > > > Says Barry, nastily defending Vaj's smokescreen, when Vaj, > > > who claims he knew RWC, has yet to say what it was like to > > > hang with RWC. > > > > That's because the FBI files are about facts; who does what > > when. Then there's the analysis on how dangerous this could > > be for our nation; is there a hidden threat ? > > There is no room for "what it is like" or feeling. It's not > > their business. And rightly so since they must be levelheaded. > > > > Since Vaj gets his information from these files and was never > > in the vincinity of Robin, there is no way he could know "what > > is was like". > > Sorta like what "Maitreya" is really "like" or what it > "feels like" to be around him, eh Nabs? :-) > > I mean, dude...you've been tied to the coattails of the > planet's most discredited spiritual con man for decades > now, and you've never seen or experienced his long- > predicted Maitreya, either. Is that so ? Glad you are here to tell me about my experiences :-) All you've ever experienced > is *his* version of "FBI files" about the myth that he > made up 37 years ago, promising that Maitreya would show > up "any day now." Well, he's never showed up. How strange then that Maitreya is seen around the globe on a daily basis and has given dozens of TV-interviews. I'd say > that you continuing to believe that he either exists or > that he'll *ever* show up is more like how you describe > Vaj pouring over FBI files than it is any kind of real > spiritual experience. :-) You know how much I respect you Turq so I bow to your anal-ysis :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > Raunchy must be on the rag again. I neither mentioned > Vaj nor "defended" him. I would fully expect that, > since he clearly doesn't feel that anything of value > was ever gained by hanging with RWC, that he'd have > little to say about the subject. Were you expecting > something else? Perhaps Barry hasn't been reading Vaj's posts either. Vaj has had *plenty* to say about the subject. Interestingly, while Vaj had a great deal to say about Robin even before Robin showed up here, I don't recall that Vaj ever mentioned having hung around Robin until *after* Robin made his appearance. > Awoelflebater, on the other hand, has suggested that > "hanging with the Robster" constituted three of the > most exciting years of her (?) life. Thus she might > actually have something to say about WHY she feels > that way. But she hasn't said it. Ann has indeed had something to say about why she feels that way: "I guess I admired Robin's individuality, his willingness to step outside, way outside, the status quo. His claims to enlightenment were secondary to the fact that the prospect of jumping on this horse (WTS) promised a few bronco busting moments. It proved to be quite a ride." Give her a chance to expand on it all if she chooses.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
> > But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann > > Woelfle Bater. What is a TB? > > authfriend: > Stands for True Believer. Generally a derisive term > around here. > Not the only 'TB' - don't forget the 'TurquoiseB' (TB).
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > Well there is a possibility R. has contacted an old friend > to chime in. Ann, did Robin ask you to join FFL? > > One that pops to mind is that he's really enjoyed > > having his story about his own past be entirely one- > > sided up to now. His attacks on you have consistently > > been Judy-inspired attempts to pretend it really IS > > one-sided, because you never witnessed any of the > > things you speak of. > > Yeah, that's the key flaw, he actually believes/believed > Judy's strawmen are real. Although at some point, he seemed > to awaken to the Strawman Queen's nature. LOL. Vaj is one of the few here who read those posts of Robin's and completely failed to figure out what was going on.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > > profile" and it will come up. > > Tried that. It comes up with a big "Not Found" page for me. > You may be seeing it because you created the profile, but > we may be unable to see it because of the settings you > chose (even if you didn't realize it) when setting up > your account. Your last sentence above makes me suspect > that this is the issue; I never see any "Your Profile" > link. Yes, you do: Not found The page you were looking for doesn't exist. Go to your profile. "Go to your profile" is a live link. But it'll take you to *your* profile, not Ann's. > My original posts were meant as > a reminder that most of us here don't have the faintest > clue what "studying with RWC" or attending his seminars > or whatever you call it was like. Assuming that we do > leaves us in the dark. I can't find anything she's said that makes the assumption that "we" know what it was like. The post you were responding to was her reply to Vaj, who does claim to know what it was all like. You don't seem to have read her posts with any attention, beyond looking for something to criticize her about. You picked wrong. Comment on your original post to Ann: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > > > > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > > > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > > > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > > > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > > > that big of a deal. :-) First, Robin's MIU/Fairfield activities are hardly "unremembered" around here. They've been discussed on FFL for years. Most of us weren't there at the time, but we've certainly heard the stories. Second, even little groups have big players and little players. Ann was pointing out to Vaj that she was a big player in Robin's group, so Vaj should have recognized her name if he had been part of it as he claims. Not a thing egotistical about that, just a statement of fact. You're making a bigger deal of it than she has.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
awoelflebater: > I have to admit the whole thing is pretty fascinating > and I'd be happy to give you a better description but > maybe you could tell me about yourself. > >From what I've read, "Robin Woodsworth Carlsen is the first alleged enlightened being of the TM movement." Some people think that Robin went insane after a blast of 'kundalini' energy almost unhinged him. No doubt it was a very powerful experience, but Robin's writings on FFL don't seem to be the work of a crazy person. Excerpt: "Carlsen was to return to Switzerland one more time for yet another course before his final dissolution into Unity Consciousness, and to sit at the feet of his master, the Maharishi Mahesh Yogi. While Carlsen's autobiographical work From Ignorance to Enlightenment covers the outline of this final course, it does not go into the details of his actual enlightenment..." Work cited: 'The Sunnyside Drama: The First Three Years of Enlightenment' By Robin Woodsworth Carlsen Snow Man Press, 1979 Other titles of interest: 'On First Meeting Werner Erhard and Est: A Memoir of Deliberate Affirmation' By Robin Woodsworth Carlsen Snow Man Press, 1980
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Ann-- --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > profile" and it will come up. Only if you're awoelflebater will you get to see awoelflebater's profile. If I click on "your profile" after clicking on your name, I get *my* profile. And according to Yahoo, *your* profile "doesn't exist." I don't know whether that's a glitch, or whether it takes a day or two to appear after you've created it, or whether your permissions have somehow been set for it to remain private, or what. But it isn't visible to me. You might want to ask Alex Stanley (one of the FFL moderators) or Rick Archer (the FFL "owner"--he set the group up to start with and is the Big Cheese) to help. The email address to contact Rick is on the Home page of FFL, on the right under "Group Email Addresses," as the List Owner. To reach Alex, you'd need to find one of his posts and click on the email icon. They're both nice, helpful guys. Or you could upload your photo to FFL's Photo section if you wanted. There's a folder for "FFL Members." If you're posting from the Web site rather than via email, there's a link to the Photos section on the left. Any uploaded photo has to be approved by a moderator or the owner before it appears, though, and sometimes that can take a day or two. > But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann Woelfle > Bater. What is a TB? Stands for True Believer. Generally a derisive term around here.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that > little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it > will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your > profile" and it will come up. Tried that. It comes up with a big "Not Found" page for me. You may be seeing it because you created the profile, but we may be unable to see it because of the settings you chose (even if you didn't realize it) when setting up your account. Your last sentence above makes me suspect that this is the issue; I never see any "Your Profile" link. > But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann Woelfle > Bater. What is a TB? Good to meet you. TB is an acronym for True Believer. No offense intended, but if you hung in there with Robin through all the ups and downs, I suspect you probably qualified at the time. That said, I'm more interested in who you are today. As hinted at in my earlier messages, I don't really have that much interest in Robin, past or present. What I do have an abiding interest in is people's experiences with groups or organizations that they later come to describe with the word "cult." Been there, done that. I love to hear other people's impressions of what that was like for them -- at the time, during the "walking away" process if that happened, and now, in retrospect. That's all I was encouraging you to rap about, and only if you feel comfortable doing so. My original posts were meant as a reminder that most of us here don't have the faintest clue what "studying with RWC" or attending his seminars or whatever you call it was like. Assuming that we do leaves us in the dark. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > > > Excuse me? > > > > I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but > > these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- > > inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see > > not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo > > itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing > > something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. > > > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > > that big of a deal. :-) > > > > Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should > > remember and almost revere your experiences, when in > > actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we > > weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't > > all that important*. To you, all involved in them, > > they might have seemed more important, but to me, > > it's a little like the two of you are describing > > going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating > > it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) > > > > Try to remember that most here don't have any idea > > what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want > > to say something about what it was like to hang > > with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance. > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 20, 2012, at 8:58 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: > > > awoelflebater, the latest FFL pot stirrer, welcome. I think the > > pieces fell into place for me, we shared a class with Jonathan > > Shear, didn't we? How have you been? Feel free to remain anonymous > > here if I have it right. We all have our reasons for choosing how > > we present ourselves here. But I use my real first name Curtis and > > you might remember me for playing harmonica at school events if not > > for being such an earnest little thing in our Plato class. > > > Was that the Plato class where Shearer compared subjective > experiences of the Sun, Moon and Polestar sidhis to the Myth of Er? Yes, I had a month with him on Plato and it was all siddhis-ed up. He had a bit of an errant pole star concerning one of the students in the class, oh those halcyon pre-litigious days! >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > What I find most fascinating is that unless I have > missed something (which is likely because I see his > name in Message View and immediately move on to the > next post without reading it), MZ himself doesn't > seem all that anxious to interact with his former > disciple. THAT speaks volumes to me, and leaves > me to wonder about the possible reasons for that > silence. Um, it's been known to happen that a poster has other things to do that take precedence over reading FFL, if you can imagine that. Curtis and Vaj, for example, are not infrequently absent for days on end. > One that pops to mind is that he's really enjoyed > having his story about his own past be entirely one- > sided up to now. His attacks on you have consistently > been Judy-inspired attempts to pretend it really IS > one-sided, because you never witnessed any of the > things you speak of. I don't believe I've commented on whether Vaj ever had anything to do with Robin, so I'm not sure how I could have inspired anything Robin has said to Vaj on that score. Again there's this amazing meme about how powerful and influential I am on FFL, such that anything negative that is said by others about posters I've clashed with must have been inspired by moi, because none of these others have minds of their own or the capacity to make independent judgments. And yet at the same time, I'm so boring that few people bother to read my posts, according to Barry. Quite a trick, I'd say. Folks are smart enough not to read my posts, but somehow I've managed to hypnotize them into parroting what I say in those same posts that they never read.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Hi Ann, I had totally guessed wrong! Thanks for your response. We weren't buddies at MIU but I do remember you now that I've seen your pic. The yearbooks are all online at:http://www.mum.edu/pdf_yearbooks/ My last name begins with M. I keep it off this board because I work under a stage name and like to keep the worlds from colliding! Andy blew our minds back in '75! In retrospect I understand how cool it all was but it was all a bit much for me back then. And I do remember his connection with Pam. Peggy is rocking the corporate lecture circuit, what an exceptional human. I haven't seen her in years but checked out her Website. Mine is at curtis (no space here) blues dot com I didn't make it to the reunion but heard about it and envy your going. I had gigs then, but would have otherwise loved to have seen everybody. We were such an unusual bunch weren't we? As far as I have drifted from the movement, I never regret that I did collage sober! MIU was great for me even if I have lost all my "spiritual" perspective since then. My sister is buddies with Josie who is doing fascinating work for child actors in Cali. FFL can be an interesting place to write into. But it isn't for everybody that's for sure. I'm glad you dropped in and you will always have eager readers for any perspectives you have on your life's journey here,Robin oriented or not. It has helped me integrate parts of my past with who I am now. All the best, Curtis --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > Hey Curtis, I thought my name was right out there - Ann Woelfle. It all > sounds right, your MIU memories but I would have to look at a yearbook to put > a face to your name. I was really good friends with Marny and Mike and Lenny > and Ron and lots of others. Even worked at Peggy O'Neils back in the day. I > remember when Andy Kaufman was in town and he had a visit down there to the > restaurant and stayed for an after-party. I remember quite vividly dancing > like a maniac to the B-52's. He actually dated Pam Paradowski for a while. > > Anyway, "hi". As fun as this has been I might not stick around this site, > however. I'm not really interested in anonymous shenanigans or guessing > games. I don't mind talking about my "Robin" days but really don't like the > negativity coming off of some of the posts. It is so easy to goof around on > the internet, become someone else, say and act in ways you would never dream > of to someone's face. Not really my thing. > > But thanks for making this connection. I take it you didn't attend the MIU > reunion in Santa Barbara a couple of years ago? I went and saw hundreds of > people I hadn't seen for 30 years. Peggy O'Neil and Josie Batorski organized > it. > > I am choosing carefully what posts I will read in future, whether the title > is "wow" or not. But thank you for your good-natured post, I appreciate it > and will look you up in that yearbook. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > wrote: > > > > awoelflebater, the latest FFL pot stirrer, welcome. I think the pieces > > fell into place for me, we shared a class with Jonathan Shear, didn't we? > > How have you been? Feel free to remain anonymous here if I have it right. > > We all have our reasons for choosing how we present ourselves here. But I > > use my real first name Curtis and you might remember me for playing > > harmonica at school events if not for being such an earnest little thing in > > our Plato class. > > > > For what its worth I think it is most likely that Vaj had direct experience > > with Robin, although perhaps not as extensive as your own. I suggest > > contacting him offline, as he has invited, if you want to discuss old > > times, you wont get much on this public board. > > > > But for me, again if I have it right, you are a delightfully colorful > > bright addition who could definitely add to the mix if you choose to spend > > some time writing here. I hope you do. But take your time and decide how > > many cards you want to show here in public. > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jan 20, 2012, at 6:52 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, maybe there was something she > > > > > actually felt or experienced that she can convey to > > > > > us to help us understand. SHE is in a position to > > > > > do that, *because she was a Robin TB*. Vaj never > > > > > was. Are you too dumb to get that distinction? > > > > > > > > I wasn't getting that awoelflebater was a WTS TB, but perhaps > > > > you're right. > > > > > > By her/his own accounts, *three years* pretty much > > > constitutes a TB. I lasted less than three days when > > > first exposed to Robin Carlsen. :-) > > > > > > Then there's the part about hanging in there after > > > he could no long
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 20, 2012, at 10:02 AM, awoelflebater wrote: I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your profile" and it will come up. But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann Woelfle Bater. What is a TB? I recognize your middle name and seem to remember a male relative?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
I am basically computer-illiterate but if you click on that little purple awoelflebater next to the messages on FFL it will come up with a profile page. Then click on "your profile" and it will come up. But, if you don't want to bother, my name is Ann Woelfle Bater. What is a TB? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > Excuse me? > > I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but > these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- > inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see > not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo > itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing > something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > that big of a deal. :-) > > Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should > remember and almost revere your experiences, when in > actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we > weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't > all that important*. To you, all involved in them, > they might have seemed more important, but to me, > it's a little like the two of you are describing > going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating > it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) > > Try to remember that most here don't have any idea > what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want > to say something about what it was like to hang > with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance. >
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 20, 2012, at 8:58 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: awoelflebater, the latest FFL pot stirrer, welcome. I think the pieces fell into place for me, we shared a class with Jonathan Shear, didn't we? How have you been? Feel free to remain anonymous here if I have it right. We all have our reasons for choosing how we present ourselves here. But I use my real first name Curtis and you might remember me for playing harmonica at school events if not for being such an earnest little thing in our Plato class. Was that the Plato class where Shearer compared subjective experiences of the Sun, Moon and Polestar sidhis to the Myth of Er?
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Oh go suck an egg, you old fart. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UtoZhKdww4 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > > > > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > > > > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > > > > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > > > > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > > > > > > > > > Excuse me? > > > > > > > > > > I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but > > > > > these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- > > > > > inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see > > > > > not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo > > > > > itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing > > > > > something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. > > > > > > > > > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > > > > > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > > > > > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > > > > > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > > > > > that big of a deal. :-) > > > > > > > > > > Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should > > > > > remember and almost revere your experiences, when in > > > > > actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we > > > > > weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't > > > > > all that important*. To you, all involved in them, > > > > > they might have seemed more important, but to me, > > > > > it's a little like the two of you are describing > > > > > going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating > > > > > it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) > > > > > > > > > > Try to remember that most here don't have any idea > > > > > what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want > > > > > to say something about what it was like to hang > > > > > with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance. > > > > > > > > Says Barry, nastily defending Vaj's smokescreen, when Vaj, > > > > who claims he knew RWC, has yet to say what it was like to > > > > hang with RWC. > > > > > > Raunchy must be on the rag again. I neither mentioned > > > Vaj nor "defended" him. I would fully expect that, > > > since he clearly doesn't feel that anything of value > > > was ever gained by hanging with RWC, that he'd have > > > little to say about the subject. Were you expecting > > > something else? > > > > > > Awoelflebater, on the other hand, has suggested that > > > "hanging with the Robster" constituted three of the > > > most exciting years of her (?) life. Thus she might > > > actually have something to say about WHY she feels > > > that way. But she hasn't said it. > > > > > > I'm honestly curious. I know first-hand what it's > > > like to hang with a powerfully charismatic teacher > > > (although I seriously doubt that RWC could ever be > > > referred to using that phrase). Even if history > > > later suggests that the individual was merely a > > > narcissist experiencing fleeting states of attention > > > (and/or psychosis) and inflicting them on others, > > > filtering them through his or her own personal > > > samskaras, it can be a helluva ride. But awoelflebater > > > has said nothing about the *nature* of the ride she > > > presumably paid E-ticket prices for over three years. > > > > > > WHAT made those three years exciting or interesting? > > > WHAT benefits does she feel that she derived, at the > > > time, and WHAT made her believe that she was receiving > > > them? Did any of these perceived benefits linger, or > > > persist once she was not in the presence of the char- > > > ismatic teacher/speaker/abuser/con man? > > > > > > I could certainly speak to such issues with regard to > > > Rama - Fred Lenz. That was a helluva ride, too, one > > > that I actually enjoyed for a time. I'm wondering why > > > awoelflebater doesn't seem to speak about the WHY > > > she chose to follow RWC around for a while, that's all. > > > Vaj never made that choice; his interaction with Robin > > > (if believed) was that of a skeptical observer from > > > start to finish. Awoelflebater seems to be speaking > > > more from the POV of a RWC True Believer. > > > > Vaj claims to know Robin but has never described a single > > circumstance of his interaction with him that would make > > his claim credible. How come you got your panties in a > > knot over awoelfle's hinting about her RWC days, while > > your buddy Vaj has done nothing but *hint* about his RWC > > days? The hypocrisy of
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Hey Curtis, I thought my name was right out there - Ann Woelfle. It all sounds right, your MIU memories but I would have to look at a yearbook to put a face to your name. I was really good friends with Marny and Mike and Lenny and Ron and lots of others. Even worked at Peggy O'Neils back in the day. I remember when Andy Kaufman was in town and he had a visit down there to the restaurant and stayed for an after-party. I remember quite vividly dancing like a maniac to the B-52's. He actually dated Pam Paradowski for a while. Anyway, "hi". As fun as this has been I might not stick around this site, however. I'm not really interested in anonymous shenanigans or guessing games. I don't mind talking about my "Robin" days but really don't like the negativity coming off of some of the posts. It is so easy to goof around on the internet, become someone else, say and act in ways you would never dream of to someone's face. Not really my thing. But thanks for making this connection. I take it you didn't attend the MIU reunion in Santa Barbara a couple of years ago? I went and saw hundreds of people I hadn't seen for 30 years. Peggy O'Neil and Josie Batorski organized it. I am choosing carefully what posts I will read in future, whether the title is "wow" or not. But thank you for your good-natured post, I appreciate it and will look you up in that yearbook. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" wrote: > > awoelflebater, the latest FFL pot stirrer, welcome. I think the pieces fell > into place for me, we shared a class with Jonathan Shear, didn't we? How have > you been? Feel free to remain anonymous here if I have it right. We all > have our reasons for choosing how we present ourselves here. But I use my > real first name Curtis and you might remember me for playing harmonica at > school events if not for being such an earnest little thing in our Plato > class. > > For what its worth I think it is most likely that Vaj had direct experience > with Robin, although perhaps not as extensive as your own. I suggest > contacting him offline, as he has invited, if you want to discuss old times, > you wont get much on this public board. > > But for me, again if I have it right, you are a delightfully colorful bright > addition who could definitely add to the mix if you choose to spend some time > writing here. I hope you do. But take your time and decide how many cards > you want to show here in public. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Jan 20, 2012, at 6:52 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > On the other hand, maybe there was something she > > > > actually felt or experienced that she can convey to > > > > us to help us understand. SHE is in a position to > > > > do that, *because she was a Robin TB*. Vaj never > > > > was. Are you too dumb to get that distinction? > > > > > > I wasn't getting that awoelflebater was a WTS TB, but perhaps > > > you're right. > > > > By her/his own accounts, *three years* pretty much > > constitutes a TB. I lasted less than three days when > > first exposed to Robin Carlsen. :-) > > > > Then there's the part about hanging in there after > > he could no longer return to Iowa for fear of prosecution. > > That's pretty TB. > > > > > By his or her own claim s/he underwent confrontation - but > > > failed. > > > > One wonders what "success" meant in such a situation. > > I am tempted to believe it entailed saying, "You're > > just the BEST, Robin, and everything you said about > > me is true...I shall amend my sinful ways immediately." :-) > > > > > This means s/he was likely expelled for that failure and > > > perhaps ostracized as well. S/he would have been declared > > > demonic and anathema. I'm assuming because of this outcome > > > s/he is not a very likely to be a WTS TB. > > > > I did use the words "*was* a TB." Did you miss that? > > Clearly, if she/he went so far as to go to the editor > > of a BC newspaper to denounce him, she/he wasn't still > > much of a TB at that time. The "lingering traces" I > > see of former TB-dom also lie in the fact that she > > still hasn't mentioned any particulars of the practice, > > whether she now considers them positive or negative, and > > in the fact that she consistently refers to the experience > > in the same way that almost all former cultists speak of > > their involvement with a cult. If I'm not mistaken, she > > even called it a cult. > > > > What I find most fascinating is that unless I have > > missed something (which is likely because I see his > > name in Message View and immediately move on to the > > next post without reading it), MZ himself doesn't > > seem all that anxious to interact with his former > > disciple. THAT speaks volumes to me, and leaves > > me to wonder about the possible reasons for that > > silence. > > > > One that pops to
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 20, 2012, at 8:25 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > I wasn't getting that awoelflebater was a WTS TB, but perhaps > you're right. By her/his own accounts, *three years* pretty much constitutes a TB. I lasted less than three days when first exposed to Robin Carlsen. :-) Then there's the part about hanging in there after he could no longer return to Iowa for fear of prosecution. That's pretty TB. Good point. And really, anyone who let themselves enter into confrontation - often in front of groups of others - had to not only be ready to dive in head first, completely, nakedly vulnerable - there had to be some belief that that process actually held some "evolutionary" value. > By his or her own claim s/he underwent confrontation - but > failed. One wonders what "success" meant in such a situation. I am tempted to believe it entailed saying, "You're just the BEST, Robin, and everything you said about me is true...I shall amend my sinful ways immediately." :-) No, often such end states were very cathartic or the resolution was one that dramatically affected the persons physical appearance and their presence in the room. At the successful resolution of confrontation, the audience benefitted from that resolution as well. But my feeling is that this style of catharsis will only work on a small subset of people who are hypnotically very suggestible - esp. R's various "manifestations" where he would manifest certain ontological states, like a ride in Indra's chariot (my personal fave) or the nervous systems experience of initial awakening, etc., etc. It's a long list. > This means s/he was likely expelled for that failure and > perhaps ostracized as well. S/he would have been declared > demonic and anathema. I'm assuming because of this outcome > s/he is not a very likely to be a WTS TB. I did use the words "*was* a TB." Did you miss that? Clearly, if she/he went so far as to go to the editor of a BC newspaper to denounce him, she/he wasn't still much of a TB at that time. True. And I do remember hearing word of this expose, but don't recall ever reading it. The "lingering traces" I see of former TB-dom also lie in the fact that she still hasn't mentioned any particulars of the practice, whether she now considers them positive or negative, and in the fact that she consistently refers to the experience in the same way that almost all former cultists speak of their involvement with a cult. If I'm not mistaken, she even called it a cult. That would be interesting for him/her to share. The only person I know who currently has expressed some significant value from confrontation was Rory. I also suspect that this is part of Rory's interest in the Chod: it developed from the insights he was able to achieve. But from my own perspective one is an incredibly powerful practice for awakening and also for integrating the shadow, the other less so or not at all. What I find most fascinating is that unless I have missed something (which is likely because I see his name in Message View and immediately move on to the next post without reading it), MZ himself doesn't seem all that anxious to interact with his former disciple. THAT speaks volumes to me, and leaves me to wonder about the possible reasons for that silence. Well there is a possibility R. has contacted an old friend to chime in. One that pops to mind is that he's really enjoyed having his story about his own past be entirely one- sided up to now. His attacks on you have consistently been Judy-inspired attempts to pretend it really IS one-sided, because you never witnessed any of the things you speak of. Yeah, that's the key flaw, he actually believes/believed Judy's strawmen are real. Although at some point, he seemed to awaken to the Strawman Queen's nature. But now we've got someone on the forum who claims to have been there on the front lines for three years. Seems to me a person as com- mitted to his own first person ontology and exposing it to challenges as RWC has claimed to be would be happy to interact with such a person. Shouldn't he be at least interested in getting his long-overdue Report Card as a spiritual teacher? Now wouldn't THAT be a "confrontation" worth watching? :-) Like I said, this could be an old friend who's let by-gones be by- gones, or it could be a disgruntled "demonic" former student who's freshly arrived from hell. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
awoelflebater, the latest FFL pot stirrer, welcome. I think the pieces fell into place for me, we shared a class with Jonathan Shear, didn't we? How have you been? Feel free to remain anonymous here if I have it right. We all have our reasons for choosing how we present ourselves here. But I use my real first name Curtis and you might remember me for playing harmonica at school events if not for being such an earnest little thing in our Plato class. For what its worth I think it is most likely that Vaj had direct experience with Robin, although perhaps not as extensive as your own. I suggest contacting him offline, as he has invited, if you want to discuss old times, you wont get much on this public board. But for me, again if I have it right, you are a delightfully colorful bright addition who could definitely add to the mix if you choose to spend some time writing here. I hope you do. But take your time and decide how many cards you want to show here in public. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > On Jan 20, 2012, at 6:52 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > On the other hand, maybe there was something she > > > actually felt or experienced that she can convey to > > > us to help us understand. SHE is in a position to > > > do that, *because she was a Robin TB*. Vaj never > > > was. Are you too dumb to get that distinction? > > > > I wasn't getting that awoelflebater was a WTS TB, but perhaps > > you're right. > > By her/his own accounts, *three years* pretty much > constitutes a TB. I lasted less than three days when > first exposed to Robin Carlsen. :-) > > Then there's the part about hanging in there after > he could no longer return to Iowa for fear of prosecution. > That's pretty TB. > > > By his or her own claim s/he underwent confrontation - but > > failed. > > One wonders what "success" meant in such a situation. > I am tempted to believe it entailed saying, "You're > just the BEST, Robin, and everything you said about > me is true...I shall amend my sinful ways immediately." :-) > > > This means s/he was likely expelled for that failure and > > perhaps ostracized as well. S/he would have been declared > > demonic and anathema. I'm assuming because of this outcome > > s/he is not a very likely to be a WTS TB. > > I did use the words "*was* a TB." Did you miss that? > Clearly, if she/he went so far as to go to the editor > of a BC newspaper to denounce him, she/he wasn't still > much of a TB at that time. The "lingering traces" I > see of former TB-dom also lie in the fact that she > still hasn't mentioned any particulars of the practice, > whether she now considers them positive or negative, and > in the fact that she consistently refers to the experience > in the same way that almost all former cultists speak of > their involvement with a cult. If I'm not mistaken, she > even called it a cult. > > What I find most fascinating is that unless I have > missed something (which is likely because I see his > name in Message View and immediately move on to the > next post without reading it), MZ himself doesn't > seem all that anxious to interact with his former > disciple. THAT speaks volumes to me, and leaves > me to wonder about the possible reasons for that > silence. > > One that pops to mind is that he's really enjoyed > having his story about his own past be entirely one- > sided up to now. His attacks on you have consistently > been Judy-inspired attempts to pretend it really IS > one-sided, because you never witnessed any of the > things you speak of. But now we've got someone on > the forum who claims to have been there on the front > lines for three years. Seems to me a person as com- > mitted to his own first person ontology and exposing > it to challenges as RWC has claimed to be would be > happy to interact with such a person. Shouldn't he > be at least interested in getting his long-overdue > Report Card as a spiritual teacher? Now wouldn't > THAT be a "confrontation" worth watching? :-) >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > On Jan 20, 2012, at 6:52 AM, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > On the other hand, maybe there was something she > > actually felt or experienced that she can convey to > > us to help us understand. SHE is in a position to > > do that, *because she was a Robin TB*. Vaj never > > was. Are you too dumb to get that distinction? > > I wasn't getting that awoelflebater was a WTS TB, but perhaps > you're right. By her/his own accounts, *three years* pretty much constitutes a TB. I lasted less than three days when first exposed to Robin Carlsen. :-) Then there's the part about hanging in there after he could no longer return to Iowa for fear of prosecution. That's pretty TB. > By his or her own claim s/he underwent confrontation - but > failed. One wonders what "success" meant in such a situation. I am tempted to believe it entailed saying, "You're just the BEST, Robin, and everything you said about me is true...I shall amend my sinful ways immediately." :-) > This means s/he was likely expelled for that failure and > perhaps ostracized as well. S/he would have been declared > demonic and anathema. I'm assuming because of this outcome > s/he is not a very likely to be a WTS TB. I did use the words "*was* a TB." Did you miss that? Clearly, if she/he went so far as to go to the editor of a BC newspaper to denounce him, she/he wasn't still much of a TB at that time. The "lingering traces" I see of former TB-dom also lie in the fact that she still hasn't mentioned any particulars of the practice, whether she now considers them positive or negative, and in the fact that she consistently refers to the experience in the same way that almost all former cultists speak of their involvement with a cult. If I'm not mistaken, she even called it a cult. What I find most fascinating is that unless I have missed something (which is likely because I see his name in Message View and immediately move on to the next post without reading it), MZ himself doesn't seem all that anxious to interact with his former disciple. THAT speaks volumes to me, and leaves me to wonder about the possible reasons for that silence. One that pops to mind is that he's really enjoyed having his story about his own past be entirely one- sided up to now. His attacks on you have consistently been Judy-inspired attempts to pretend it really IS one-sided, because you never witnessed any of the things you speak of. But now we've got someone on the forum who claims to have been there on the front lines for three years. Seems to me a person as com- mitted to his own first person ontology and exposing it to challenges as RWC has claimed to be would be happy to interact with such a person. Shouldn't he be at least interested in getting his long-overdue Report Card as a spiritual teacher? Now wouldn't THAT be a "confrontation" worth watching? :-)
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 19, 2012, at 10:18 PM, emptybill wrote: The reality is that I practice TM/TM-Sidhi So you actually still do your program? Or was that meant to be past tense?
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 20, 2012, at 6:52 AM, turquoiseb wrote: On the other hand, maybe there was something she actually felt or experienced that she can convey to us to help us understand. SHE is in a position to do that, *because she was a Robin TB*. Vaj never was. Are you too dumb to get that distinction? I wasn't getting that awoelflebater was a WTS TB, but perhaps you're right. By his or her own claim s/he underwent confrontation - but failed. This means s/he was likely expelled for that failure and perhaps ostracized as well. S/he would have been declared demonic and anathema. I'm assuming because of this outcome s/he is not a very likely to be a WTS TB.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
I couldn't find your picture - but maybe I'll eventually figure it out. I have talked briefly to Robin here (compared to the occasional lengthy responses I get from him). IMO it was actually nice to know he was still alive and kicking, and the rumors of his demise were horribly exaggerated. And getting to hang a little here has been fun although sometimes challenging. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you either know me or > you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't enter into it. I was not a small > player. And I, unlike you, am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, > tell you my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > What you seem to be keeping "alive" is your interest, maybe even your > obsession, with Robin Woodsworth Carlsen. He appears on FFL and you are all > over it. You have written more words to and about this man than is normal for > someone who is not harbouring some deep-seated, insatiable hunger to provoke > and engage him. You are in denial if you can not admit this. Take two weeks, > it will take you about that amount of time, to re-read all the words, words, > words that you have volleyed his way. I see this as having kept something > "alive". > > This "old laundry" thing, now I guarantee that if I sent you one of my old > WTS tapes of big juicy confrontations, manifestations and all the other > goodies that are on it, you would throw it into your VHS player (if you still > had such a relic) with gusto. > > I agree that you "have virtually forgotten" your experience with WTS if your > descriptions of the processes i.e. confrontations are any indication. > > "I've never been an angry person". No comment. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > On Jan 19, 2012, at 9:16 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > Perhaps we knew each other at one time? > > > > I'd suspect that's very likely. > > > > > If you are an American then for sure I would know you if you were witness > > > to "many cosmic confrontations" including confronting Robin. However, > > > when being confronted by him it was by default reciprocal. It was a two > > > way confrontation. Like watching ping pong, back and forth, back and > > > forth. > > > > True. > > > > > I am also not quite sure of your motivation for keeping all of this alive > > > for 25 years. > > > > Keeping all what alive? > > > > This is old laundry. Not very interesting at all. Except for voyeurs who > > like to watch such things as people tossing old stuff. > > > > > For you to do so it must have been a very traumatic experience. I can > > > understand that. > > > > It was not a traumatic experience for me in the least. I had a great time. > > But it's something virtually forgotten...and like old laundry, not worth > > devoting too much time to. Being asked to sort thru my old laundry for > > interesting pieces is what seems odd to me. If some of that old laundry > > involves people I cared for, I'm even less likely to hang it out to dry. > > > > You on the other hand seem happy to talk about it. And that's fine too. > > > > > What I can not quite understand is the need to carry it for so long. > > > But then your description of a confrontation on the "stage" sounds like > > > someone who has either never been there, has a faulty memory or is > > > fishing to find out if I am the real thing. Either way I am happy to > > > answer your questions but hopefully you are wanting them answered in > > > order to close the book on your anger. > > > > I've never been an angry person, so again, I'm not sure what you're talking > > about. > > > > My last experience with Robin - or Robindra as I often refer to him - was > > one always recalled as a moment of hilarity. It's virtually impossible for > > any of those present to keep from falling into laughter. > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, nablusoss1008 wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > Says Barry, nastily defending Vaj's smokescreen, when Vaj, > > who claims he knew RWC, has yet to say what it was like to > > hang with RWC. > > That's because the FBI files are about facts; who does what > when. Then there's the analysis on how dangerous this could > be for our nation; is there a hidden threat ? > There is no room for "what it is like" or feeling. It's not > their business. And rightly so since they must be levelheaded. > > Since Vaj gets his information from these files and was never > in the vincinity of Robin, there is no way he could know "what > is was like". Sorta like what "Maitreya" is really "like" or what it "feels like" to be around him, eh Nabs? :-) I mean, dude...you've been tied to the coattails of the planet's most discredited spiritual con man for decades now, and you've never seen or experienced his long- predicted Maitreya, either. All you've ever experienced is *his* version of "FBI files" about the myth that he made up 37 years ago, promising that Maitreya would show up "any day now." Well, he's never showed up. I'd say that you continuing to believe that he either exists or that he'll *ever* show up is more like how you describe Vaj pouring over FBI files than it is any kind of real spiritual experience. :-)
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > Says Barry, nastily defending Vaj's smokescreen, when Vaj, who claims he knew > RWC, has yet to say what it was like to hang with RWC. That's because the FBI files are about facts; who does what when. Then there's the analysis on how dangerous this could be for our nation; is there a hidden threat ? There is no room for "what it is like" or feeling. It's not their business. And rightly so since they must be levelheaded. Since Vaj gets his information from these files and was never in the vincinity of Robin, there is no way he could know "what is was like".
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > > > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > > > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > > > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > > > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > > > > > > > Excuse me? > > > > > > > > I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but > > > > these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- > > > > inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see > > > > not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo > > > > itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing > > > > something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. > > > > > > > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > > > > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > > > > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > > > > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > > > > that big of a deal. :-) > > > > > > > > Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should > > > > remember and almost revere your experiences, when in > > > > actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we > > > > weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't > > > > all that important*. To you, all involved in them, > > > > they might have seemed more important, but to me, > > > > it's a little like the two of you are describing > > > > going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating > > > > it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) > > > > > > > > Try to remember that most here don't have any idea > > > > what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want > > > > to say something about what it was like to hang > > > > with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance. > > > > > > Says Barry, nastily defending Vaj's smokescreen, when Vaj, > > > who claims he knew RWC, has yet to say what it was like to > > > hang with RWC. > > > > Raunchy must be on the rag again. I neither mentioned > > Vaj nor "defended" him. I would fully expect that, > > since he clearly doesn't feel that anything of value > > was ever gained by hanging with RWC, that he'd have > > little to say about the subject. Were you expecting > > something else? > > > > Awoelflebater, on the other hand, has suggested that > > "hanging with the Robster" constituted three of the > > most exciting years of her (?) life. Thus she might > > actually have something to say about WHY she feels > > that way. But she hasn't said it. > > > > I'm honestly curious. I know first-hand what it's > > like to hang with a powerfully charismatic teacher > > (although I seriously doubt that RWC could ever be > > referred to using that phrase). Even if history > > later suggests that the individual was merely a > > narcissist experiencing fleeting states of attention > > (and/or psychosis) and inflicting them on others, > > filtering them through his or her own personal > > samskaras, it can be a helluva ride. But awoelflebater > > has said nothing about the *nature* of the ride she > > presumably paid E-ticket prices for over three years. > > > > WHAT made those three years exciting or interesting? > > WHAT benefits does she feel that she derived, at the > > time, and WHAT made her believe that she was receiving > > them? Did any of these perceived benefits linger, or > > persist once she was not in the presence of the char- > > ismatic teacher/speaker/abuser/con man? > > > > I could certainly speak to such issues with regard to > > Rama - Fred Lenz. That was a helluva ride, too, one > > that I actually enjoyed for a time. I'm wondering why > > awoelflebater doesn't seem to speak about the WHY > > she chose to follow RWC around for a while, that's all. > > Vaj never made that choice; his interaction with Robin > > (if believed) was that of a skeptical observer from > > start to finish. Awoelflebater seems to be speaking > > more from the POV of a RWC True Believer. > > Vaj claims to know Robin but has never described a single > circumstance of his interaction with him that would make > his claim credible. How come you got your panties in a > knot over awoelfle's hinting about her RWC days, while > your buddy Vaj has done nothing but *hint* about his RWC > days? The hypocrisy of your demand that awoelfle stop > hinting seems to elude you. Get a fuckin' life, Raunchy. I have ZERO interest in your Judy-fueled "Vaj is not to be believed because we claim he was never a TMer" vendetta. That's YOUR schtick, and as said before I don't buy it. I think it's just you and others trying Yet Again to find some way
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > > > > > Excuse me? > > > > > > I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but > > > these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- > > > inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see > > > not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo > > > itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing > > > something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. > > > > > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > > > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > > > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > > > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > > > that big of a deal. :-) > > > > > > Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should > > > remember and almost revere your experiences, when in > > > actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we > > > weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't > > > all that important*. To you, all involved in them, > > > they might have seemed more important, but to me, > > > it's a little like the two of you are describing > > > going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating > > > it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) > > > > > > Try to remember that most here don't have any idea > > > what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want > > > to say something about what it was like to hang > > > with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance. > > > > Says Barry, nastily defending Vaj's smokescreen, when Vaj, > > who claims he knew RWC, has yet to say what it was like to > > hang with RWC. > > Raunchy must be on the rag again. I neither mentioned > Vaj nor "defended" him. I would fully expect that, > since he clearly doesn't feel that anything of value > was ever gained by hanging with RWC, that he'd have > little to say about the subject. Were you expecting > something else? > > Awoelflebater, on the other hand, has suggested that > "hanging with the Robster" constituted three of the > most exciting years of her (?) life. Thus she might > actually have something to say about WHY she feels > that way. But she hasn't said it. > > I'm honestly curious. I know first-hand what it's > like to hang with a powerfully charismatic teacher > (although I seriously doubt that RWC could ever be > referred to using that phrase). Even if history > later suggests that the individual was merely a > narcissist experiencing fleeting states of attention > (and/or psychosis) and inflicting them on others, > filtering them through his or her own personal > samskaras, it can be a helluva ride. But awoelflebater > has said nothing about the *nature* of the ride she > presumably paid E-ticket prices for over three years. > > WHAT made those three years exciting or interesting? > WHAT benefits does she feel that she derived, at the > time, and WHAT made her believe that she was receiving > them? Did any of these perceived benefits linger, or > persist once she was not in the presence of the char- > ismatic teacher/speaker/abuser/con man? > > I could certainly speak to such issues with regard to > Rama - Fred Lenz. That was a helluva ride, too, one > that I actually enjoyed for a time. I'm wondering why > awoelflebater doesn't seem to speak about the WHY > she chose to follow RWC around for a while, that's all. > Vaj never made that choice; his interaction with Robin > (if believed) was that of a skeptical observer from > start to finish. Awoelflebater seems to be speaking > more from the POV of a RWC True Believer. > Vaj claims to know Robin but has never described a single circumstance of his interaction with him that would make his claim credible. How come you got your panties in a knot over awoelfle's hinting about her RWC days, while your buddy Vaj has done nothing but *hint* about his RWC days? The hypocrisy of your demand that awoelfle stop hinting seems to elude you. > I'm curious as to what she felt there was to believe > IN. I have certainly never seen it, either in his > writing or speaking at the time back in Fairfield, > on in his writing here. So it's difficult for me to > fathom WHY anyone would have ever "signed on" for a > three-year hitch. Vaj is not in a position to provide > that kind of information; she is. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "raunchydog" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > > > Excuse me? > > > > I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but > > these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- > > inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see > > not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo > > itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing > > something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. > > > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > > that big of a deal. :-) > > > > Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should > > remember and almost revere your experiences, when in > > actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we > > weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't > > all that important*. To you, all involved in them, > > they might have seemed more important, but to me, > > it's a little like the two of you are describing > > going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating > > it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) > > > > Try to remember that most here don't have any idea > > what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want > > to say something about what it was like to hang > > with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance. > > Says Barry, nastily defending Vaj's smokescreen, when Vaj, > who claims he knew RWC, has yet to say what it was like to > hang with RWC. Raunchy must be on the rag again. I neither mentioned Vaj nor "defended" him. I would fully expect that, since he clearly doesn't feel that anything of value was ever gained by hanging with RWC, that he'd have little to say about the subject. Were you expecting something else? Awoelflebater, on the other hand, has suggested that "hanging with the Robster" constituted three of the most exciting years of her (?) life. Thus she might actually have something to say about WHY she feels that way. But she hasn't said it. I'm honestly curious. I know first-hand what it's like to hang with a powerfully charismatic teacher (although I seriously doubt that RWC could ever be referred to using that phrase). Even if history later suggests that the individual was merely a narcissist experiencing fleeting states of attention (and/or psychosis) and inflicting them on others, filtering them through his or her own personal samskaras, it can be a helluva ride. But awoelflebater has said nothing about the *nature* of the ride she presumably paid E-ticket prices for over three years. WHAT made those three years exciting or interesting? WHAT benefits does she feel that she derived, at the time, and WHAT made her believe that she was receiving them? Did any of these perceived benefits linger, or persist once she was not in the presence of the char- ismatic teacher/speaker/abuser/con man? I could certainly speak to such issues with regard to Rama - Fred Lenz. That was a helluva ride, too, one that I actually enjoyed for a time. I'm wondering why awoelflebater doesn't seem to speak about the WHY she chose to follow RWC around for a while, that's all. Vaj never made that choice; his interaction with Robin (if believed) was that of a skeptical observer from start to finish. Awoelflebater seems to be speaking more from the POV of a RWC True Believer. I'm curious as to what she felt there was to believe IN. I have certainly never seen it, either in his writing or speaking at the time back in Fairfield, on in his writing here. So it's difficult for me to fathom WHY anyone would have ever "signed on" for a three-year hitch. Vaj is not in a position to provide that kind of information; she is.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. > > Excuse me? > > I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but > these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- > inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see > not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo > itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing > something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. > > Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a > Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, > unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near > tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really > that big of a deal. :-) > > Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should > remember and almost revere your experiences, when in > actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we > weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't > all that important*. To you, all involved in them, > they might have seemed more important, but to me, > it's a little like the two of you are describing > going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating > it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) > > Try to remember that most here don't have any idea > what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want > to say something about what it was like to hang > with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance. > Says Barry, nastily defending Vaj's smokescreen, when Vaj, who claims he knew RWC, has yet to say what it was like to hang with RWC.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you > either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't > enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, > am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you > my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. Excuse me? I've been enjoying your reminiscences up to now, but these latest ones are starting to sound a tad ego- inflated, similar to Robin's himself. First, I see not only no photo but no profile, either on Yahoo itself or in the FFL photo section. Am I missing something? You're just as anonymous as anyone here. Second, it seems to me that considering yourself a Big Player in something that was at most a tiny, unremembered splash in the tiniest of ponds near tiny and insignificant Fairfield, Iowa is not really that big of a deal. :-) Like Robin himself, you seem to feel that we should remember and almost revere your experiences, when in actuality they don't mean diddley to us, because we weren't involved and even if we were *they weren't all that important*. To you, all involved in them, they might have seemed more important, but to me, it's a little like the two of you are describing going to the 7-11 for a snack and somehow treating it as if it replicated the voyages of Odysseus. :-) Try to remember that most here don't have any idea what you're hinting about when you hint. If you want to say something about what it was like to hang with RWC, say it outright. Thanks in advance.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > Judy, I hate to say it but "pot stirring" is my personal > specialty. You never have to worry about that on my account. > Nothing will ever stick to the bottom. Sure don't want anything sticking to *my* bottom, so stir away. > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > Hey, awoelf, my pleasure. Nice to hear from you. I have a > > pretty good memory, but it's mainly useful for knowing what > > to search for in Yahoo's archive of FFL posts, so it's a > > database-assisted memory, or a memory-assisted database, or > > something. > > > > Really glad to have you here, partly as an authentic source > > of information--whatever you choose to tell us, at any rate-- > > about WTS from a participant's point of view (none of us have > > any firsthand knowledge of what went on back then except for > > Robin, of course, and, perhaps, Vaj); and partly just because > > yours is a bright, appealing new presence that seems as though > > it could bring a refreshing perspective to a forum that tends > > to get stagnant from time to time. > > > > Robin has certainly done his bit to shake it up, to our great > > benefit, as have Emily and several other relative newbies. > > It's good to know you're intending to stick around for a while. > > Hope you'll give the pot a stir or two as well. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Judy. You are always clear and concise, you kind of appear out of > > > the blue like some musical, reasonable voice. You either have a really > > > good memory or have a database of posts! I appreciate the clear synopsis > > > of the last year or so. I never thought I would be discussing/debating my > > > WTS experience with so many people I don't know or think I don't know. > > > Anyway, I am prepared to see where this all might lead. And I know that > > > little Judy voice might sound out of nowhere at any moment. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > > > Susan, if I could comment on a few of your details: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Dear Awoel, > > > > > > > > > > Since you are new here, in brief: Vaj and Robin have had > > > > > a back and forth about Robin's long past actions for many > > > > > months now, maybe over a year. > > > > > > > > Robin's been here almost exactly seven months, since mid-June. > > > > > > > > > Vaj says he knew of people involved with Robin and was himself > > > > > around in Ffld when Robin was doing his WTS thing. > > > > > > > > Not just in FF but also at Robin and his followers' hangout > > > > at Sunnyside in Canada; and with a delegation of several > > > > other people who visited Robin in DC as well. On that > > > > occasion, Vaj claims to have demonstrated to the others to > > > > their complete satisfaction, via some special techniques > > > > which he declines to disclose, that Robin was not > > > > enlightened. Robin acknowledges the visit but says Vaj was > > > > not with the delegation and never visited him. > > > > > > > > > Vaj feels Robin was unstable at the time and behaved "badly" > > > > > towards the people who chose to follow his lead. He says he > > > > > saw this for himself > > > > > > > > Vaj has claimed to have been one of Robin's "confrontees." > > > > > > > > > and I think he had friends either involved with Robin or > > > > > trying to help others who had been sucked in get out. > > > > > > > > > > Robin believes Vaj was not there in Ffld or at any of his > > > > > appearances and did not see him or know him at that time. > > > > > > > > Not sure Robin ever said Vaj hadn't been in FF, but I could > > > > be wrong. Robin does deny Vaj ever attended one of his > > > > seminars and indeed that Vaj ever saw him "in the flesh." > > > > Don't know how Robin could know this last if Vaj was in > > > > Fairfield at the time; Robin was out and about, and Vaj > > > > could well have seen him from a distance, or even have > > > > attended one of the court hearings. I assume Robin meant > > > > something more like "face to face." But he'd have to > > > > clarify that himself. > > > > > > > > > Vaj mentions incidents and events, Robin says he could not > > > > > have been there and that he did not behave as badly as Vaj > > > > > says. > > > > > > > > Vaj has been very careful to avoid providing specifics that > > > > might be checked out. All the little tidbits he doles out, > > > > he could have found out from someone else who had firsthand > > > > knowledge. > > > > > > > > The picture Vaj paints is fragmented. It sounds to me as if > > > > he has a little list of notes and drops one or two into his > > > > posts from time to time. > > > > > > > > (There's a wonderful line in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado > > > > in which Poo-Bah, who has been accused of making stuff up, > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" wrote: > > Judy, > > Not so. > > I don't personally know RWC so how could I have "personal > enmity" toward him? I am not actually critical of RWC himself, You sure coulda fooled me. You seem to have fooled him too. But just for the record, it's entirely possible to have personal enmity toward someone you don't know personally if you've had significant exposure to their electronic presence and direct interaction with them through that medium. > rather I am challenging his views based upon my understanding > of the classical Christian tradition, meaning both Catholic > and Orthodox. As long as you bear in mind his is a retrospective understanding, not anything he's living by now, that's fine. But why be so hostile about it? > I do not loath Catholicism. Any tradition that can produce a > contemplative such as Thomas Merton has something important > to say to the human race. However, what I actually like about > it is contained in its Neo-Platonic heritage, such as it is. > > Robin thinks, however, that I am a Russian Orthodox dogmatist - > which might be reasonable, except that he never asked me. It > is all his own set of assumptions based upon my strident > language. Strident language tends to be the one spoken by dogmatists. Perhaps you're an exception, but it's not an unreasonable assumption, especially when you're challenging a person's (perceived) religious views *from* a religious viewpoint. In any case, you may or may not be a Russian Orthodox dogmatist, but you sure as heck can be dogmatic about whatever you're arguing, with most folks here. > The reality is that I practice TM/TM-Sidhi, was trained as a > TM teacher in Fiuggi, Italia, hosted SSRS's Sahaj Samadhi > and Sudarshan Kriya groups and Kriya courses for 10 years and > now also practice Tantra and Dzogchen under the direction of > the Rimè Yogin-Scholar Khachab Rinpoche. And your connection to Russian Orthodoxy is...? > You say: > > Obviously I can't speak for him beyond pointing to what he's > already said here. But I'm just mystified as to what your beef > is with him. If you care to explain further, I'm all ears > (eyes). > In initial reply, I would recommend re-reading these posts: > (But first, some snippets from them). > > #295519 - Judy sez: > > I'd be interested to see what he has to say about all that > you've said. Not sure why you didn't address him directly > with it, though. Unlike some others here, he doesn't seem > to have any inhibitions about responding to criticism. And he did respond, in the very next post, which you go on to quote. What's your point? I reread what you said in the post I was responding to, BTW. Talk about dogmatism! You instructed me that I was wasting my time with him, called him a "Catholic fideist" when he'd already made it clear in other posts that he was no longer a Catholic, did a whole bunch of mind-reading about what you perceived to be his existential problems, and applied the Russian Orthodox term "prelest"--meaning spiritual deception--to what you claimed was his "error in judgment about himself." I think he was very much entitled to consider you a dogmatist. The following is quoted from the very end of his response: > #295520 Robin sez: > > Thanks for letting everyone at FFL know what I am up to > here, emptybill. You seem like a most interesting person. > Still, though, I can't reconcile the Crucifixion with the > Buddha nature. Or pure consciousness with Fallen Nature. > > Hey, I just realized: I just *might be* what you say I am. > But I can assure youand everyone elseI only just > experienced this truth in this moment. > > Catholic fideist: it sounds fine to me. So, then, emptybill, > I am a Catholic Fideist. emptybill, you have a finely honed sense of irony when it's coming out of your keyboard. Huccome you don't recognize it when it comes from Robin's? He said a whole lot more in that post that was not at all ironic; and it was pretty eloquent. I don't believe you responded to it. (It was the same one I quoted from.) Had you missed it before? > #299247 I/Me/Mine sez: > You do not appear to have ever subjected yourself to the full > analysis of your consciousness in terms of Shankara's direct > teachings. Shankara made it clear (along with Gaudapada) that > no yogic state of transcendence (samadhi), whether, individual > or universal, can be a mean to realizing that Atman, Ishvara > and Brahman are an identical reality. > > You seem to have accepted the finality of Maharishi's typology > but you never demonstrated that you compared it to classical > Vedanta. I don't get the relevance of this. MMY was his master. Of course he'd accept the finality of MMY's typology. Blame MMY for espousing a different typology from that of Shankara and Gaudapada if you like, but why would you blame Robin? > Likewise, you appear to have intellectually accepted Catholic > dogma but show no signs of stepping beyond m
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Judy, I hate to say it but "pot stirring" is my personal specialty. You never have to worry about that on my account. Nothing will ever stick to the bottom. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > Hey, awoelf, my pleasure. Nice to hear from you. I have a > pretty good memory, but it's mainly useful for knowing what > to search for in Yahoo's archive of FFL posts, so it's a > database-assisted memory, or a memory-assisted database, or > something. > > Really glad to have you here, partly as an authentic source > of information--whatever you choose to tell us, at any rate-- > about WTS from a participant's point of view (none of us have > any firsthand knowledge of what went on back then except for > Robin, of course, and, perhaps, Vaj); and partly just because > yours is a bright, appealing new presence that seems as though > it could bring a refreshing perspective to a forum that tends > to get stagnant from time to time. > > Robin has certainly done his bit to shake it up, to our great > benefit, as have Emily and several other relative newbies. > It's good to know you're intending to stick around for a while. > Hope you'll give the pot a stir or two as well. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > Thanks Judy. You are always clear and concise, you kind of appear out of > > the blue like some musical, reasonable voice. You either have a really good > > memory or have a database of posts! I appreciate the clear synopsis of the > > last year or so. I never thought I would be discussing/debating my WTS > > experience with so many people I don't know or think I don't know. Anyway, > > I am prepared to see where this all might lead. And I know that little Judy > > voice might sound out of nowhere at any moment. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > > > Susan, if I could comment on a few of your details: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > > > > > Dear Awoel, > > > > > > > > Since you are new here, in brief: Vaj and Robin have had > > > > a back and forth about Robin's long past actions for many > > > > months now, maybe over a year. > > > > > > Robin's been here almost exactly seven months, since mid-June. > > > > > > > Vaj says he knew of people involved with Robin and was himself > > > > around in Ffld when Robin was doing his WTS thing. > > > > > > Not just in FF but also at Robin and his followers' hangout > > > at Sunnyside in Canada; and with a delegation of several > > > other people who visited Robin in DC as well. On that > > > occasion, Vaj claims to have demonstrated to the others to > > > their complete satisfaction, via some special techniques > > > which he declines to disclose, that Robin was not > > > enlightened. Robin acknowledges the visit but says Vaj was > > > not with the delegation and never visited him. > > > > > > > Vaj feels Robin was unstable at the time and behaved "badly" > > > > towards the people who chose to follow his lead. He says he > > > > saw this for himself > > > > > > Vaj has claimed to have been one of Robin's "confrontees." > > > > > > > and I think he had friends either involved with Robin or > > > > trying to help others who had been sucked in get out. > > > > > > > > Robin believes Vaj was not there in Ffld or at any of his > > > > appearances and did not see him or know him at that time. > > > > > > Not sure Robin ever said Vaj hadn't been in FF, but I could > > > be wrong. Robin does deny Vaj ever attended one of his > > > seminars and indeed that Vaj ever saw him "in the flesh." > > > Don't know how Robin could know this last if Vaj was in > > > Fairfield at the time; Robin was out and about, and Vaj > > > could well have seen him from a distance, or even have > > > attended one of the court hearings. I assume Robin meant > > > something more like "face to face." But he'd have to > > > clarify that himself. > > > > > > > Vaj mentions incidents and events, Robin says he could not > > > > have been there and that he did not behave as badly as Vaj > > > > says. > > > > > > Vaj has been very careful to avoid providing specifics that > > > might be checked out. All the little tidbits he doles out, > > > he could have found out from someone else who had firsthand > > > knowledge. > > > > > > The picture Vaj paints is fragmented. It sounds to me as if > > > he has a little list of notes and drops one or two into his > > > posts from time to time. > > > > > > (There's a wonderful line in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado > > > in which Poo-Bah, who has been accused of making stuff up, > > > defends himself by referring to the made-up items as "merely > > > corroborative detail, intended to give artistic > > > verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing > > > narrative." At this, Pitti-Sing exclaims in disgust: > > > "Corroborative detail indeed! Corroborative fiddlestick!") > > > > > > Anyway, Robin's
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
If you actually knew me you would remember my name, so you either know me or you don't know me, "very likely" doesn't enter into it. I was not a small player. And I, unlike you, am willing to step from behind some smokescreen, tell you my name, my history and I posted a profile picture. What you seem to be keeping "alive" is your interest, maybe even your obsession, with Robin Woodsworth Carlsen. He appears on FFL and you are all over it. You have written more words to and about this man than is normal for someone who is not harbouring some deep-seated, insatiable hunger to provoke and engage him. You are in denial if you can not admit this. Take two weeks, it will take you about that amount of time, to re-read all the words, words, words that you have volleyed his way. I see this as having kept something "alive". This "old laundry" thing, now I guarantee that if I sent you one of my old WTS tapes of big juicy confrontations, manifestations and all the other goodies that are on it, you would throw it into your VHS player (if you still had such a relic) with gusto. I agree that you "have virtually forgotten" your experience with WTS if your descriptions of the processes i.e. confrontations are any indication. "I've never been an angry person". No comment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 19, 2012, at 9:16 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > > > Perhaps we knew each other at one time? > > I'd suspect that's very likely. > > > If you are an American then for sure I would know you if you were witness > > to "many cosmic confrontations" including confronting Robin. However, when > > being confronted by him it was by default reciprocal. It was a two way > > confrontation. Like watching ping pong, back and forth, back and forth. > > True. > > > I am also not quite sure of your motivation for keeping all of this alive > > for 25 years. > > Keeping all what alive? > > This is old laundry. Not very interesting at all. Except for voyeurs who like > to watch such things as people tossing old stuff. > > > For you to do so it must have been a very traumatic experience. I can > > understand that. > > It was not a traumatic experience for me in the least. I had a great time. > But it's something virtually forgotten...and like old laundry, not worth > devoting too much time to. Being asked to sort thru my old laundry for > interesting pieces is what seems odd to me. If some of that old laundry > involves people I cared for, I'm even less likely to hang it out to dry. > > You on the other hand seem happy to talk about it. And that's fine too. > > > What I can not quite understand is the need to carry it for so long. > > But then your description of a confrontation on the "stage" sounds like > > someone who has either never been there, has a faulty memory or is fishing > > to find out if I am the real thing. Either way I am happy to answer your > > questions but hopefully you are wanting them answered in order to close the > > book on your anger. > > I've never been an angry person, so again, I'm not sure what you're talking > about. > > My last experience with Robin - or Robindra as I often refer to him - was one > always recalled as a moment of hilarity. It's virtually impossible for any of > those present to keep from falling into laughter. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Hey, awoelf, my pleasure. Nice to hear from you. I have a pretty good memory, but it's mainly useful for knowing what to search for in Yahoo's archive of FFL posts, so it's a database-assisted memory, or a memory-assisted database, or something. Really glad to have you here, partly as an authentic source of information--whatever you choose to tell us, at any rate-- about WTS from a participant's point of view (none of us have any firsthand knowledge of what went on back then except for Robin, of course, and, perhaps, Vaj); and partly just because yours is a bright, appealing new presence that seems as though it could bring a refreshing perspective to a forum that tends to get stagnant from time to time. Robin has certainly done his bit to shake it up, to our great benefit, as have Emily and several other relative newbies. It's good to know you're intending to stick around for a while. Hope you'll give the pot a stir or two as well. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > Thanks Judy. You are always clear and concise, you kind of appear out of the > blue like some musical, reasonable voice. You either have a really good > memory or have a database of posts! I appreciate the clear synopsis of the > last year or so. I never thought I would be discussing/debating my WTS > experience with so many people I don't know or think I don't know. Anyway, I > am prepared to see where this all might lead. And I know that little Judy > voice might sound out of nowhere at any moment. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > > > Susan, if I could comment on a few of your details: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > > > Dear Awoel, > > > > > > Since you are new here, in brief: Vaj and Robin have had > > > a back and forth about Robin's long past actions for many > > > months now, maybe over a year. > > > > Robin's been here almost exactly seven months, since mid-June. > > > > > Vaj says he knew of people involved with Robin and was himself > > > around in Ffld when Robin was doing his WTS thing. > > > > Not just in FF but also at Robin and his followers' hangout > > at Sunnyside in Canada; and with a delegation of several > > other people who visited Robin in DC as well. On that > > occasion, Vaj claims to have demonstrated to the others to > > their complete satisfaction, via some special techniques > > which he declines to disclose, that Robin was not > > enlightened. Robin acknowledges the visit but says Vaj was > > not with the delegation and never visited him. > > > > > Vaj feels Robin was unstable at the time and behaved "badly" > > > towards the people who chose to follow his lead. He says he > > > saw this for himself > > > > Vaj has claimed to have been one of Robin's "confrontees." > > > > > and I think he had friends either involved with Robin or > > > trying to help others who had been sucked in get out. > > > > > > Robin believes Vaj was not there in Ffld or at any of his > > > appearances and did not see him or know him at that time. > > > > Not sure Robin ever said Vaj hadn't been in FF, but I could > > be wrong. Robin does deny Vaj ever attended one of his > > seminars and indeed that Vaj ever saw him "in the flesh." > > Don't know how Robin could know this last if Vaj was in > > Fairfield at the time; Robin was out and about, and Vaj > > could well have seen him from a distance, or even have > > attended one of the court hearings. I assume Robin meant > > something more like "face to face." But he'd have to > > clarify that himself. > > > > > Vaj mentions incidents and events, Robin says he could not > > > have been there and that he did not behave as badly as Vaj > > > says. > > > > Vaj has been very careful to avoid providing specifics that > > might be checked out. All the little tidbits he doles out, > > he could have found out from someone else who had firsthand > > knowledge. > > > > The picture Vaj paints is fragmented. It sounds to me as if > > he has a little list of notes and drops one or two into his > > posts from time to time. > > > > (There's a wonderful line in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado > > in which Poo-Bah, who has been accused of making stuff up, > > defends himself by referring to the made-up items as "merely corroborative > > detail, intended to give artistic > > verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing > > narrative." At this, Pitti-Sing exclaims in disgust: > > "Corroborative detail indeed! Corroborative fiddlestick!") > > > > Anyway, Robin's been put in the position of having to prove > > a negative, which he can't possibly do without details from > > Vaj. So it's essentially been a standoff, one Vaj has > > lovingly nurtured. > > > > It might also be noted that Vaj has been preoccupied with > > Robin on FFL literally for *years*. It's clearly some kind > > of personal vendetta on Vaj's part, but Vaj refuses to > > disclose the basis for it. > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Judy, Not so. I don't personally know RWC so how could I have "personal enmity" toward him? I am not actually critical of RWC himself, rather I am challenging his views based upon my understanding of the classical Christian tradition, meaning both Catholic and Orthodox. I do not loath Catholicism. Any tradition that can produce a contemplative such as Thomas Merton has something important to say to the human race. However, what I actually like about it is contained in its Neo-Platonic heritage, such as it is. Robin thinks, however, that I am a Russian Orthodox dogmatist - which might be reasonable, except that he never asked me. It is all his own set of assumptions based upon my strident language. The reality is that I practice TM/TM-Sidhi, was trained as a TM teacher in Fiuggi, Italia, hosted SSRS's Sahaj Samadhi and Sudarshan Kriya groups and Kriya courses for 10 years and now also practice Tantra and Dzogchen under the direction of the Rimè Yogin-Scholar Khachab Rinpoche. You say: Obviously I can't speak for him beyond pointing to what he's already said here. But I'm just mystified as to what your beef is with him. If you care to explain further, I'm all ears (eyes). In initial reply, I would recommend re-reading these posts: (But first, some snippets from them). #295519 - Judy sez: I'd be interested to see what he has to say about all that you've said. Not sure why you didn't address him directly with it, though. Unlike some others here, he doesn't seem to have any inhibitions about responding to criticism. #295520 Robin sez: Thanks for letting everyone at FFL know what I am up to here, emptybill. You seem like a most interesting person. Still, though, I can't reconcile the Crucifixion with the Buddha nature. Or pure consciousness with Fallen Nature. Hey, I just realized: I just *might be* what you say I am. But I can assure youand everyone elseI only just experienced this truth in this moment. Catholic fideist: it sounds fine to me. So, then, emptybill, I am a Catholic Fideist. #299247 I/Me/Mine sez: You do not appear to have ever subjected yourself to the full analysis of your consciousness in terms of Shankara's direct teachings. Shankara made it clear (along with Gaudapada) that no yogic state of transcendence (samadhi), whether, individual or universal, can be a mean to realizing that Atman, Ishvara and Brahman are an identical reality. You seem to have accepted the finality of Maharishi's typology but you never demonstrated that you compared it to classical Vedanta. Likewise, you appear to have intellectually accepted Catholic dogma but show no signs of stepping beyond mere doctrine into the heart of Christian spiritual life. Thus the obvious questions: Did you ever arrive at direct experience of Christian contemplation? Have you submitted yourself to the direction of a Catholic priest/theologian of the church? (i.e. not some 13th century theologian). Do you follow a Catholic sacramental life? Do you claim to have a teacher (starets) of noetic prayer? So Judy ... Robin chooses not to answer these simple questi0ns that is his decision, not mine. However, perhaps his real answer just might be the most simple of all "To me it's all a play of Bovine `Scatology". --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ wrote: > > > > Hey, thanks Judy for the reminder. > > > > However, his last statement you quoted was an > > explanation of his feeling that the Catholic/Christian > > lineage was empty of power now, ala the Abbey 0f Monte Cassino. > > The key words being ... "it is as if". > > Seems to me you can't possibly be a Catholic or > even a Protestant if you can make such a statement. In > that regard, there's no effective difference between > "For me it is as if there was never..." and "For me > there was never..." > > If nothing on that list is real to him, the provisional > "as if" is nothing more than a nod to the limits of a > person's knowledge of ontological reality. You aren't > disputing that, surely? > > > His view is characteristic of a vacillating mind, a ghostly > > belief system and an over-emphasis upon one's own separate > > individuality. In essence it encapsulates the Western > > Christian historical drama and demonstrates a real need for > > an austere but corporate worship - one was the original norm > > in Christianity before it became a political favored group/ > > system with people joining just to gain imperial favor. > > And you're blaming him for the lack of an austere but > corporate worship throughout Western civilization? For > having been born into the historical drama such that he > has the tendency to emphasize his own separate > individuality? What? > > > This was one of the reasons that monasticism started in the > > first place ... dismay at the lack of true faithfulness among the 'joiners". > > He lost his faith. It happens to people, even to some of
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
On Jan 19, 2012, at 9:16 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > Perhaps we knew each other at one time? I'd suspect that's very likely. > If you are an American then for sure I would know you if you were witness to > "many cosmic confrontations" including confronting Robin. However, when being > confronted by him it was by default reciprocal. It was a two way > confrontation. Like watching ping pong, back and forth, back and forth. True. > I am also not quite sure of your motivation for keeping all of this alive for > 25 years. Keeping all what alive? This is old laundry. Not very interesting at all. Except for voyeurs who like to watch such things as people tossing old stuff. > For you to do so it must have been a very traumatic experience. I can > understand that. It was not a traumatic experience for me in the least. I had a great time. But it's something virtually forgotten...and like old laundry, not worth devoting too much time to. Being asked to sort thru my old laundry for interesting pieces is what seems odd to me. If some of that old laundry involves people I cared for, I'm even less likely to hang it out to dry. You on the other hand seem happy to talk about it. And that's fine too. > What I can not quite understand is the need to carry it for so long. > But then your description of a confrontation on the "stage" sounds like > someone who has either never been there, has a faulty memory or is fishing to > find out if I am the real thing. Either way I am happy to answer your > questions but hopefully you are wanting them answered in order to close the > book on your anger. I've never been an angry person, so again, I'm not sure what you're talking about. My last experience with Robin - or Robindra as I often refer to him - was one always recalled as a moment of hilarity. It's virtually impossible for any of those present to keep from falling into laughter.
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Thanks Judy. You are always clear and concise, you kind of appear out of the blue like some musical, reasonable voice. You either have a really good memory or have a database of posts! I appreciate the clear synopsis of the last year or so. I never thought I would be discussing/debating my WTS experience with so many people I don't know or think I don't know. Anyway, I am prepared to see where this all might lead. And I know that little Judy voice might sound out of nowhere at any moment. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > Susan, if I could comment on a few of your details: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > Dear Awoel, > > > > Since you are new here, in brief: Vaj and Robin have had > > a back and forth about Robin's long past actions for many > > months now, maybe over a year. > > Robin's been here almost exactly seven months, since mid-June. > > > Vaj says he knew of people involved with Robin and was himself > > around in Ffld when Robin was doing his WTS thing. > > Not just in FF but also at Robin and his followers' hangout > at Sunnyside in Canada; and with a delegation of several > other people who visited Robin in DC as well. On that > occasion, Vaj claims to have demonstrated to the others to > their complete satisfaction, via some special techniques > which he declines to disclose, that Robin was not > enlightened. Robin acknowledges the visit but says Vaj was > not with the delegation and never visited him. > > > Vaj feels Robin was unstable at the time and behaved "badly" > > towards the people who chose to follow his lead. He says he > > saw this for himself > > Vaj has claimed to have been one of Robin's "confrontees." > > > and I think he had friends either involved with Robin or > > trying to help others who had been sucked in get out. > > > > Robin believes Vaj was not there in Ffld or at any of his > > appearances and did not see him or know him at that time. > > Not sure Robin ever said Vaj hadn't been in FF, but I could > be wrong. Robin does deny Vaj ever attended one of his > seminars and indeed that Vaj ever saw him "in the flesh." > Don't know how Robin could know this last if Vaj was in > Fairfield at the time; Robin was out and about, and Vaj > could well have seen him from a distance, or even have > attended one of the court hearings. I assume Robin meant > something more like "face to face." But he'd have to > clarify that himself. > > > Vaj mentions incidents and events, Robin says he could not > > have been there and that he did not behave as badly as Vaj > > says. > > Vaj has been very careful to avoid providing specifics that > might be checked out. All the little tidbits he doles out, > he could have found out from someone else who had firsthand > knowledge. > > The picture Vaj paints is fragmented. It sounds to me as if > he has a little list of notes and drops one or two into his > posts from time to time. > > (There's a wonderful line in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado > in which Poo-Bah, who has been accused of making stuff up, > defends himself by referring to the made-up items as "merely corroborative > detail, intended to give artistic > verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing > narrative." At this, Pitti-Sing exclaims in disgust: > "Corroborative detail indeed! Corroborative fiddlestick!") > > Anyway, Robin's been put in the position of having to prove > a negative, which he can't possibly do without details from > Vaj. So it's essentially been a standoff, one Vaj has > lovingly nurtured. > > It might also be noted that Vaj has been preoccupied with > Robin on FFL literally for *years*. It's clearly some kind > of personal vendetta on Vaj's part, but Vaj refuses to > disclose the basis for it. > > > > The thing is, Robin has described in detail his change of > > belief system and how he gave up his enlightenment somehow > > and converted to Catholicism. > > As I understand it from his posts, he converted to > Catholicism first, then after some time as a practicing > Catholic decided Catholicism was incompatible with the > entire spiritual context of enlightenment and that > enlightenment was fundamentally a deception. So he began to > work on casting off the enlightenment. At some point after > that he gave up on Catholicism too. (I believe that's the > sequence, but I don't know the time frame.) A lot of folks > here appear to have missed that last step, but he's been > quite explicit about it. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Don't get me wrong, I can respect your need for anonymity. It's not my personal style however, I tend to let it all hang out. Perhaps we knew each other at one time? If you are an American then for sure I would know you if you were witness to "many cosmic confrontations" including confronting Robin. However, when being confronted by him it was by default reciprocal. It was a two way confrontation. Like watching ping pong, back and forth, back and forth. I am also not quite sure of your motivation for keeping all of this alive for 25 years. For you to do so it must have been a very traumatic experience. I can understand that. What I can not quite understand is the need to carry it for so long. But then your description of a confrontation on the "stage" sounds like someone who has either never been there, has a faulty memory or is fishing to find out if I am the real thing. Either way I am happy to answer your questions but hopefully you are wanting them answered in order to close the book on your anger. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > On Jan 19, 2012, at 6:00 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > > > Hi Vaj, > > Well, I don't mean to offend but that does sound a little like the Reader's > > Digest version of a confrontation. Just out of curiosity, where did you get > > this description? Did you have close friends involved or are you just > > curious to know the inside scoop? I have to admit the whole thing is pretty > > fascinating and I'd be happy to give you a better description but maybe you > > could tell me about yourself. > > I'm being vague deliberately...so you can fill in the details. > > I've witnessed many 'cosmic confrontations'. I even got to confront Robindra. > > Feel free to contact me offlist if you'd like to know more or if it's too > private to share online. >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
Thanks for your message Susan, I appreciate it. I could write a book, maybe two on my years around him. I have not thought about it all as much as I have in the last week or so. It is amazing how much I do remember, as if it just happened. 25 years ago seems impossible. So much of it is seared into my head and heart. I would not have missed one single moment of my time in that situation ( it is always hard to find a proper noun for the experience, the years, the people). It was a battlefield, a celebration, a physical and mental marathon. There were nightmarish elements as dark and mysterious as any I have ever witnessed. I met people who I still count as my best friends even though I never see them any more. I discovered things about my resilience, loyalty and compulsion. I will stop here for fear of boring you to death. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > Dear Awoel, > > Since you are new here, in brief: Vaj and Robin have had a back and forth > about Robin's long past actions for many months now, maybe over a year. Vaj > says he knew of people involved with Robin and was himself around in Ffld > when Robin was doing his WTS thing. Vaj feels Robin was unstable at the time > and behaved "badly" towards the people who chose to follow his lead. He says > he saw this for himself and I think he had friends either involved with Robin > or trying to help others who had been sucked in get out. > > Robin believes Vaj was not there in Ffld or at any of his appearances and did > not see him or know him at that time. Vaj mentions incidents and events, > Robin says he could not have been there and that he did not behave as badly > as Vaj says. > > So, you appeared here on FFL and say you were there at that time! It has > been interesting so far to hear what you have to say about it. Your > description of your background and family are intriguing and I have no reason > to doubt you. I think at this point Vaj would like to hear more specifically > what it was like for you to be involved with Robin at that time, why it was > incredible and fascinating, what the dynamics were and if you found any > aspects of it abusive or odd. How did this whole Robin C thing happen, what > was going on? > > The thing is, Robin has described in detail his change of belief system and > how he gave up his enlightenment somehow and converted to Catholicism. I > believe he feels he is a different person at this point in his life - that > the enlighenment thing was not a good thing. The disagreement between Vaj and > Robin, if there is one, is about just what Robin did and how he behaved when > he was in full force with his WTS (is that the correct abbreviation?). > > As far as Vaj's background, he will have to provide that to you himself. > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > Hi Vaj, > > Well, I don't mean to offend but that does sound a little like the Reader's > > Digest version of a confrontation. Just out of curiosity, where did you get > > this description? Did you have close friends involved or are you just > > curious to know the inside scoop? I have to admit the whole thing is pretty > > fascinating and I'd be happy to give you a better description but maybe you > > could tell me about yourself. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jan 19, 2012, at 1:29 PM, awoelflebater wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Vaj, which stage? The official demon-expelling stage or the > > > > stage of life at WTS/the cult? > > > > > > > > > Typically people were on a stage, up at the microphone conversing > > > with Robin under hot lights, while he examined you with his alleged > > > celestial vision during on-going conversation. At a certain point, > > > the confrontation could begin (or not). It might last hours, or over > > > a couple of days. Those who cooperated would sometimes seem to go > > > thru a metamorphosis, those who resisted were often deemed "demonic". > > > But either of these processes took some time. > > > > > >
[FairfieldLife] Re: Wow
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" wrote: > > Susan, if I could comment on a few of your details: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Susan" wrote: > > > > Dear Awoel, > > > > Since you are new here, in brief: Vaj and Robin have had > > a back and forth about Robin's long past actions for many > > months now, maybe over a year. > > Robin's been here almost exactly seven months, since mid-June. > > > Vaj says he knew of people involved with Robin and was himself > > around in Ffld when Robin was doing his WTS thing. > > Not just in FF but also at Robin and his followers' hangout > at Sunnyside in Canada; and with a delegation of several > other people who visited Robin in DC as well. On that > occasion, Vaj claims to have demonstrated to the others to > their complete satisfaction, via some special techniques > which he declines to disclose, that Robin was not > enlightened. Robin acknowledges the visit but says Vaj was > not with the delegation and never visited him. > > > Vaj feels Robin was unstable at the time and behaved "badly" > > towards the people who chose to follow his lead. He says he > > saw this for himself > > Vaj has claimed to have been one of Robin's "confrontees." > > > and I think he had friends either involved with Robin or > > trying to help others who had been sucked in get out. > > > > Robin believes Vaj was not there in Ffld or at any of his > > appearances and did not see him or know him at that time. > > Not sure Robin ever said Vaj hadn't been in FF, but I could > be wrong. Robin does deny Vaj ever attended one of his > seminars and indeed that Vaj ever saw him "in the flesh." > Don't know how Robin could know this last if Vaj was in > Fairfield at the time; Robin was out and about, and Vaj > could well have seen him from a distance, or even have > attended one of the court hearings. I assume Robin meant > something more like "face to face." But he'd have to > clarify that himself. > > > Vaj mentions incidents and events, Robin says he could not > > have been there and that he did not behave as badly as Vaj > > says. > > Vaj has been very careful to avoid providing specifics that > might be checked out. All the little tidbits he doles out, > he could have found out from someone else who had firsthand > knowledge. > > The picture Vaj paints is fragmented. It sounds to me as if > he has a little list of notes and drops one or two into his > posts from time to time. > > (There's a wonderful line in Gilbert and Sullivan's Mikado > in which Poo-Bah, who has been accused of making stuff up, > defends himself by referring to the made-up items as "merely corroborative > detail, intended to give artistic > verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing > narrative." At this, Pitti-Sing exclaims in disgust: > "Corroborative detail indeed! Corroborative fiddlestick!") > > Anyway, Robin's been put in the position of having to prove > a negative, which he can't possibly do without details from > Vaj. So it's essentially been a standoff, one Vaj has > lovingly nurtured. > > It might also be noted that Vaj has been preoccupied with > Robin on FFL literally for *years*. It's clearly some kind > of personal vendetta on Vaj's part, but Vaj refuses to > disclose the basis for it. > > > > The thing is, Robin has described in detail his change of > > belief system and how he gave up his enlightenment somehow > > and converted to Catholicism. > > As I understand it from his posts, he converted to > Catholicism first, then after some time as a practicing > Catholic decided Catholicism was incompatible with the > entire spiritual context of enlightenment and that > enlightenment was fundamentally a deception. So he began to > work on casting off the enlightenment. At some point after > that he gave up on Catholicism too. (I believe that's the > sequence, but I don't know the time frame.) A lot of folks > here appear to have missed that last step, but he's been > quite explicit about it. > Thanks for the clarity on these points. Your memory is super, and I had missed some of the info entirely since I did not read all the relevant posts. I did miss that Robin is no longer a practicing Catholic.
