Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
On Mar 13, 2006, at 10:41 PM, wayback71 wrote: --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 13, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Rick Archer wrote: An MUM staffer says that Bevan and lawyers are putting quite a bit into the lawsuit against MUM brought by the parents of Levi Butler. The suit draws a bigger line to include other TM organizations besides MUM; the two families make claims against the techniques too. A lawyer who helps MUM with legal issues said he feels we can handle the allegations about techniques but the claim against MUM for the wrongful death will be more difficult. One of the dangers of canned meditation techniques is that they don't allow for all the subtle nuances of a potentially infinite variety of students. All these people would have to do is subpoena (or whatever you call it) the checking procedures and show how there are a limited set of responses, IIRC, none of which ever tell you to 'stop meditating' or cut back if x happens (i'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here). And actually they had this kid over- meditating as it was. I'll be amazed if they get out of this one. Upside is, this would be a good time to modify and expand the checking procedures to include what they darn well know are the side- effects--and sometime dangerous side effects--of TM. But we all know it is extremely unlikely this will ever happen. Changing checking notes wold not help - that would put checkers in the position of evaluating a person's mental status, and open them up to all sorts of liability wouldn't it? Perhaps, but common sense can go a long way--and I can't help but wonder on the value of more traditional meditational systems which use lengthy mental screening and moral training before starting meditation--as this essentially weeds out people with illness. In a come and get it meditative model, there will be casualties. My point in this case is, if I were the prosecuting attorney, I'd have a hay day with all the levels of negligence. And checking notes and getting people to learn TM seem to be the very last things on MMY's mind for the last several decades. Indeed. No one person is to blame for this tragedy. For example, I imagine that the parents of Sem wish, in retrospect, thatthey had never let him go far from home to go to college when he had a history (didn't he?) of mental illness. Obviously, the MUM folks did not handle this serious situation properly - no training in this? No understanindg of mental illness or psychosis by those making decisions? a desire to keep this a low profile event, so no authorities were called or real help sought for this young man with a brain disorder? LIke most tragedies, a series of events, each one of which should not have happened, did happen - one after the other - and lives were ruined. I think most of us have difficulty anticipating the Worst. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
On Mar 14, 2006, at 9:07 AM, authfriend wrote: I don't know Joel, but it's very possible that he's like some people here and convinced that he was not the doer in this whole scenario and thus bears no responsibility for it whatsoever. Amazing. Barry's *still* getting not the doer wrong. Or you're not getting that it was actually rather clever joke. I got a laugh out of it. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/14/06 1:50 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just *think* how many similar tragedies within the TM movement will get to come out in this lawsuit. Ya got the suicides on TM courses, ya got the guy burning himself to death after having been locked away in a basement room. Not sure Sten was locked in the room. He have have gone down there on his own. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/14/06 9:48 AM, TurquoiseB at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) it would be very sad for Fairfield if MUM went away, don't you agree? Not really. Might be good for it. Something more interesting may take over the university. Fairfield is well established as an eclectic spiritual community independent of the university. If the U were to fold, it might liberate a lot of people there who need a bit of a shakeup in their lives - who need to step outside the box and reevaluate things. I'm not hoping for this to happen. It would be fine with me if the university got thousands of students, were crawling with pundits, etc. But it wouldn't be the end of Fairfield if it did happen. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/14/06 10:51 AM, feste37 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It's the same way of thinking, though. The idea that we know more than they do about what's good for them. If you talk to people on campus about why they are there, you will get almost as many answers as there are people. Everyone has their own reasons. Instead of talking about people needing to be liberated and shaken up, wouldn't it be more mature to simply honor the decision that MUM folks have made about how they want to live and what they want to devote themselves to? I'm just speaking from my experience. I was full time in the TMO for 25 years, the last several of them on campus. We were afraid to leave. We didn't know how we would support ourselves. I think many on campus are in this boat. We felt liberated after we left. Maybe others would. Maybe some wouldn't. That's all I was saying. I'd rather see MUM flourish than fail, but I don't think that's going to happen unless some fundamental changes occur. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
Sure, it's just great, Feste. When are you moving there? :) Sal On Mar 14, 2006, at 10:23 AM, feste37 wrote: Rick sounds like the Bush Administration, wanting to liberate subject peoples. Has it occurred to anyone on this board that people who live at MUM might actually enjoy the experience? That's why they live there!
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/13/06 9:41 PM, wayback71 at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No one person is to blame for this tragedy. For example, I imagine that the parents of Sem wish, in retrospect, thatthey had never let him go far from home to go to college when he had a history (didn't he?) of mental illness. Obviously, the MUM folks did not handle this serious situation properly - no training in this? No understanindg of mental illness or psychosis by those making decisions? a desire to keep this a low profile event, so no authorities were called or real help sought for this young man with a brain disorder? LIke most tragedies, a series of events, each one of which should not have happened, did happen - one after the other - and lives were ruined. I think most of us have difficulty anticipating the Worst. I could easily have been guilty of the same negligence Joel Wysong displayed while watching the guy. I suspect he was in the other room meditating when Sem stole the knife and left his house. Then he sat and ate 30' away from him in the dining hall, assuming obviously that Sem was harmless. I feel sorry for Joel. He's a good fellow and this will haunt him the rest of his days. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/13/06 10:10 PM, shempmcgurk at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: He should get counselling. I'm serious. If Joel is feeling any amount of guilt it should only be to the degree that it was his responsibility to follow the code of conduct as published by the university: that is, that the slightest infraction of the law is IMMEDIATELY notified to the applicable authorities, which the university did NOT do. If that was Joel's responsibility, then, yes, he should feel guilty to his dying day. If it was someone else's, he shouldn't feel one tinge of guilt. Again, if he is feeling guilty, he should be getting professional counselling on this. His responsibility was just to watch Sem. He was evidently assigned that job by whoever decided to ship Sem home without reporting the pen stabbing incident to the authorities. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: MUM lawsuit
on 3/13/06 10:32 PM, sparaig at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A guy got scratched in the face with a pen in a scuffle. Do you believe that the prof was negligent in turning his back and taking a shower? Obviously, he didn't believe the guy to be any kind of threat. Didn't the scratch require 7 stitches? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/UlWolB/TM ~- To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
