RE: one vet's thoughts on sub-q ImmunoRegulin
Thank you, Lance, for taking the time to explain your vet's thoughts on this. I will keep this in mind should we decide to try IR in the future. I hope Ember is feeling better, Beth Last Spring, when Ember first tested positive for FeLV, I started looking into treatment options. ImmunoRegulin came up, so I spoke to my vet about it. I asked him if we could do it sub-q, and he recommended that we not. At that time, I wasn't ready to give IR a shot, so I didn't pay good attention to his reasons for not wanting to do IR sub-q (something about proteins and something...). Anyway, IR has come back up, and Nina encouraged me to find out what my vet thought about sub-q IR and let everyone know. This will all be paraphrased, since I didn't ask him to write it down. :) As well, I may not be giving you the full picture. It was a small part of my conversation with him. My vet started off by saying we don't understand fibrosarcomas in cats very well. He went on to explain that IR is protein-rich and that, putting that into the skin, he's afraid there's a risk of fibrosarcoma popping up down the road, as it does with some vaccinations. I think he feels that it may not be dispersed out of the injection site well enough. These are just his thoughts, and I don't think he'd be surprised to hear that none of the cats who have had IR sub-q have turned up site sarcomas so far. He's being cautious. Another downside to sub-q IR is that the IR just doesn't reach everywhere it can with an IV. I've seen this point made on the web other places. I hope this is food for thought, and is something to talk to your own vet about when deciding how to give IR. I certainly don't mean to worry anyone who has already done IR sub-q. Just wanted to report back what my own vet thinks. I really trust him, and, should we have to go the IR route, I think I'll take Ember to the clinic. Lance
Re: one vet's thoughts on sub-q ImmunoRegulin
Taking Smokey to the vet to get ImmunoRegulin through an IV is just not a good option for me. Smokey really stresses out at the vet. He hisses and is just really unpleasant. I have found that if they do everything in the examination room where I can be with him he does somewhat better. I will ask my vet about the complications of giving him the immunoregulin subq though. Thanks for the info. Cindy Reasoner --- Lance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Last Spring, when Ember first tested positive for FeLV, I started looking into treatment options. ImmunoRegulin came up, so I spoke to my vet about it. I asked him if we could do it sub-q, and he recommended that we not. At that time, I wasn't ready to give IR a shot, so I didn't pay good attention to his reasons for not wanting to do IR sub-q (something about proteins and something...). Anyway, IR has come back up, and Nina encouraged me to find out what my vet thought about sub-q IR and let everyone know. This will all be paraphrased, since I didn't ask him to write it down. :) As well, I may not be giving you the full picture. It was a small part of my conversation with him. My vet started off by saying we don't understand fibrosarcomas in cats very well. He went on to explain that IR is protein-rich and that, putting that into the skin, he's afraid there's a risk of fibrosarcoma popping up down the road, as it does with some vaccinations. I think he feels that it may not be dispersed out of the injection site well enough. These are just his thoughts, and I don't think he'd be surprised to hear that none of the cats who have had IR sub-q have turned up site sarcomas so far. He's being cautious. Another downside to sub-q IR is that the IR just doesn't reach everywhere it can with an IV. I've seen this point made on the web other places. I hope this is food for thought, and is something to talk to your own vet about when deciding how to give IR. I certainly don't mean to worry anyone who has already done IR sub-q. Just wanted to report back what my own vet thinks. I really trust him, and, should we have to go the IR route, I think I'll take Ember to the clinic. Lance Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com)
Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows: Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?: I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Treatment for seizures depends on the cause. I have an epileptic kitten (now 1 year old) who has been on phenobarbitol since January and it has worked very well. But the phenobarbitol has no effect on a cat with seizures due to dry FIP.Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows:Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?:I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor). That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps!Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AMSubject: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma Dharma had a couple of seizures last night – it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP – I was reading about the treatment – and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows: Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?: I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Hi Sweetie, Tell us more about the seizures. What exactly happened? My beloved Vixen Roo Vincent, (Siberian Husky), had seizures from what we suspect was a brain tumor. Her seizures were severe, she'd even loose her sight momentarily afterward. We had her on Phenobarbital for the last couple of months of her life. She didn't do well on it. It did control her seizures, but it had the side effect of making her dopey, (like she was drunk all the time), and gave her a ravenous, unquenchable appetite. I'm so sorry to hear about this latest development with little Dharma. Let us know what the vet has to say. Much love, Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows: Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?: I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
OK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor). That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps!Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AMSubject: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaDharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows:Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?:I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
RE: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Hi, Nina and everyone I just need lots of emotional support right its really tough for different reasons. I just have to tell you how amazing my little Dharma is she IS one tough cookie I have never met anyone like her.. When I was feeding everyone.. she stood up and came to where the crowd was to eat, which she used to do, but havent done for a while.. she did not eat it.. but I was so proud of her her spirit is just something you have never seen. It was rough last night- she seemed very hard time breathing.. and gave her lasix after all.. and hope she is feeling better I am praying whatever the best thing for Dharma I am so mad at everything I am mad this disease, I am mad the fact that I took her and Naomi away from her mother when I did.. I am just mad at the world. I took Rikki to the vet who is my older kitty --- there is a possibility that he may have FIP, too --- he is acting okay but lost lots of weight,, and he reminded me what happened to Peter.. I took him to the vet and he is a bit anemic but nothing really significantly off he has been hypergloubmia before and still.. so I started on interferon treatment on him as well I also have another kitty, OB, who might have a kidney problem, that I should probably take him in to the vet.. again he is not acting sick, but more so for preventative. FIP stuff really worries me, its not supposed to be contagious but its going around among so many of my kitties within a such a short time.. and I guess thats really worrying me.. please tell me something I can stay positive.. J Hideyo From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nina Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:23 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma Hi Sweetie, Tell us more about the seizures. What exactly happened? My beloved Vixen Roo Vincent, (Siberian Husky), had seizures from what we suspect was a brain tumor. Her seizures were severe, she'd even loose her sight momentarily afterward. We had her on Phenobarbital for the last couple of months of her life. She didn't do well on it. It did control her seizures, but it had the side effect of making her dopey, (like she was drunk all the time), and gave her a ravenous, unquenchable appetite. I'm so sorry to hear about this latest development with little Dharma. Let us know what the vet has to say. Much love, Nina Hideyo Yamamoto wrote: Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows: Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?: I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
RE: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma OK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved. Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor). That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps! Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AM Subject: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows: Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?: I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
OT - Ninja's seizure info Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Well, with hindsight, the first seizure she had was in December of 97:I wasdoing something with her(smearing a paw with hairball gunk or something) and she kinda tipped into my lap and wasyelling. The first bad seizure was about a month later, she was on a chair in the living room and stood up and then fell off the chair screaming and was on the floor stiff with her back arched (Halloween style)with her head back and foaming at the mouth. Lastedmaybe 15 seconds and she was completely drained. Then about three weeks later she had another one. and again, one more about 3 weeks after that, but then end ofMarch, early April, she had 2 seizures 2 weeks after the previous one and 10 days later she had 5 or 6 throughout that day.Foaming at the mouth wasn't always there, but always tipping over sideways all stiff andthe arched back and vocalizing and also loss of bladder control and they just exhausted her. It was horrible.At the end ofApril (the vet shesaw in January saidit wasn't worth testing for FeLVbecause at her apparent age (8ish) she'd already be showing symptoms - DUH, maybe THESE are the symptoms stillticked at that guy and always warn people away from him) vet #2, a housecall vet (she's the one who heard the heart murmur- and it resolved within a couple months), got enough blood to do a FeLV test, but she wasn't having any of a 2nd needle to get blood for a toxo test. She came back positive for FeLV andwe werereferred to either the vet school or the Cat Care Clinic (I chose CCC, am still there) for further treatment. The first day I took her to to CCC, she had a seizure on the way there... she'd vomitedthis time and I come trotting in with my poor baby and they gently took her and pointed me to the bathroom and I honestly cant' remember the rest of that visit. But the vet I was working with had (at that time) a felv+ kitty and it was the 2nd one she'd had so I figuredwe werein good hands. $$ being a huge factor (lack thereof,naturally) I was unable to have a CAT scan done to determine if it were a brain tumor ($600) and wouldn't have been able to afford the surgery if it were. She had the weird pupil stuff that some FeLV+ kits have - unequal dilation that varied. Her ocular pressure was actually a little low - they checked for uveitis because that can cause unequaldilation too. Her bloodwork was fine as far as I can remember. We put her on the pred and interferon and I had her on an aloe based probiotic powder that I can't for the life of me remember the name of... and she got the mix in baby food and was just an angel about meds time (the treat of plain baby food immediately post medicine COULDN'T have had anything to do with that, could it?) She had to have her meds twice a day, at roughly the same TIME every day or she'd have a bad day - i.e. seizures - so that Sunday I got up to use the bathroom at 7 or 8 and didn't give her her meds until I really got up around noon, she ended up having seizures, that was one lesson I learned quickly. Around about the middle of July, the pred didn't seem to be as effective and we added the phenobarb to her mix and it helped and I didn't see any major side effects. Late middle of August, I was petting her and felt a lump in her side. Took her in and there was a big mass in her lower intestine and the cytology came back lymphoma. She was ready to go about 10 days later, she wasn't there anymore and was just sitting, not sleeping or doing anything, just sitting and staring off into space. I had the vet come over the soonest she could, but that meant poor Ninja had to wait a day or so after she was ready. But she had a very peaceful passing at home and I learned so much from her and really miss her attitude:) Didn't even discuss a necropsy, I was already in hock with the regular bills and the cremation fee - she's in her box in the living room, looking over all of us. So we had a working diagnosis of possible meningioma,and while wewere never able to verify what exactly was causing her seizures, we were able to control them. hope this helps Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 11:55:15 AMSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaOK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for.
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
The "we gotta talk" was directed at Barb re meningioma. HoweverTo Hideyo: Dry FIP absolutely can cause neurological problems, including seizures. But how was FIP diagnosed? I know how hard it is to diagnose dry FIP while a cat is still living. What other possibilities have been looked at? With FIP there really are no options. But there are other conditions wiith similar symptoms that would leave open the possibility of cure or treatment. Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaOK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor).That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps! Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AMSubject: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows:Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?:I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Its clinical and form lab results low grade intermittent fever, hypergloubmia, anemia (neurological sign (unevitis) on her eye.. I lost her sister Naomi to the same thing.. and also, Peter who was 1.5 years old.. now Rikki is showing some similar symptoms (lost weight, hypergloubmia, anemic..) -she has been responding very well to feline interferon for the past two months From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB The we gotta talk was directed at Barb re meningioma. However To Hideyo: Dry FIP absolutely can cause neurological problems, including seizures. But how was FIP diagnosed? I know how hard it is to diagnose dry FIP while a cat is still living. What other possibilities have been looked at? With FIP there really are no options. But there are other conditions wiith similar symptoms that would leave open the possibility of cure or treatment. Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma OK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved. Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor). That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps! Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile. - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AM Subject: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows: Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?: I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
RE: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
I haveno experience with seizures. But, I asked a friend who lives in the UK about her kitty who has seizures and he gets something called Epiphen. The vet diagnosed him with a form of epilepsy and the medicine has helped him tremendously. Just wanted to let you know.Little Dharma and you are in my prayers,Gina Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaOK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor).That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps! Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AMSubject: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows:Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?:I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated. Visit my Tigger Tales site! See my cats' gallery at Zazzle Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the new Yahoo.com
Re: OT - Ninja's seizure info Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Sounds rather different than Connie's seizures. We haven't checked for a tumor because of the cost and danger in trying to operate if a tumor is found. She has been well-controlled on the pheno. But she is living life like a little drunk.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, with hindsight, the first seizure she had was in December of 97:I wasdoing something with her(smearing a paw with hairball gunk or something) and she kinda tipped into my lap and wasyelling. The first bad seizure was about a month later, she was on a chair in the living room and stood up and then fell off the chair screaming and was on the floor stiff with her back arched (Halloween style)with her head back and foaming at the mouth. Lastedmaybe 15 seconds and she was completely drained. Then about three weeks later she had another one. and again, one more about 3 weeks after that, but then end ofMarch, early April, she had 2 seizures 2 weeks after the previous one and 10 days later she had 5 or 6 throughout that day.Foaming at the mouth wasn't always there, but always tipping over sideways all stiff andthe arched back and vocalizing and also loss of bladder control and they just exhausted her. It was horrible.At the end ofApril (the vet shesaw in January saidit wasn't worth testing for FeLVbecause at her apparent age (8ish) she'd already be showing symptoms - DUH, maybe THESE are the symptoms stillticked at that guy and always warn people away from him) vet #2, a housecall vet (she's the one who heard the heart murmur- and it resolved within a couple months), got enough blood to do a FeLV test, but she wasn't having any of a 2nd needle to get blood for a toxo test. She came back positive for FeLV andwe werereferred to either the vet school or the Cat Care Clinic (I chose CCC, am still there) for further treatment. The first day I took her to to CCC, she had a seizure on the way there... she'd vomitedthis time and I come trotting in with my poor baby and they gently took her and pointed me to the bathroom and I honestly cant' remember the rest of that visit. But the vet I was working with had (at that time) a felv+ kitty and it was the 2nd one she'd had so I figuredwe werein good hands. $$ being a huge factor (lack thereof,naturally) I was unable to have a CAT scan done to determine if it were a brain tumor ($600) and wouldn't have been able to afford the surgery if it were. She had the weird pupil stuff that some FeLV+ kits have - unequal dilation that varied. Her ocular pressure was actually a little low - they checked for uveitis because that can cause unequaldilation too. Her bloodwork was fine as far as I can remember. We put her on the pred and interferon and I had her on an aloe based probiotic powder that I can't for the life of me remember the name of... and she got the mix in baby food and was just an angel about meds time (the treat of plain baby food immediately post medicine COULDN'T have had anything to do with that, could it?) She had to have her meds twice a day, at roughly the same TIME every day or she'd have a bad day - i.e. seizures - so that Sunday I got up to use the bathroom at 7 or 8 and didn't give her her meds until I really got up around noon, she ended up having seizures, that was one lesson I learned quickly. Around about the middle of July, the pred didn't seem to be as effective and we added the phenobarb to her mix and it helped and I didn't see any major side effects. Late middle of August, I was petting her and felt a lump in her side. Took her in and there was a big mass in her lower intestine and the cytology came back lymphoma. She was ready to go about 10 days later, she wasn't there anymore and was just sitting, not sleeping or doing anything, just sitting and staring off into space. I had the vet come over the soonest she could, but that meant poor Ninja had to wait a day or so after she was ready. But she had a very peaceful passing at home and I learned so much from her and really miss her attitude:) Didn't even discuss a necropsy, I was already in hock with the regular bills and the cremation fee - she's in her box in the living room, looking over all of us. So we had a working diagnosis of possible meningioma,and while wewere never able to verify what exactly was causing her seizures, we were able to control them. hope this helps Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 11:55:15 AMSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaOK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood
Re: Dharma's little miracle..(sorry it's long)
Congratulations on Dharma's little miracle, Hideyo. I hope that she continues to do better! :) Wendy --- Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone - thank you very much all your prayers and positive thought for my little Dharma -- Last night, from work, I called home and asked Greg to check on Dharma to how she was doing on the phone.. and he told me that he couldn't find her anywhere - she has been on top of the armoire or couch for the past few days, she was not found there - and I freaked out.. I figure that she was not feeling well and she was hiding some place y. - I panicked and drove like a maniac and came home to find her --- I found her right away,, between the corner of couch and the wall --- she must have not been feeling well - I started crying and freaked out as I could tell that something was wrong.. I picked her up and took a look at her.. nothing was specially different but she acted like her tummy was hurting and had a little labored breathing (not fast) - so I called and talked to my AC, jasmine right away to find out what was going on with Dharma, and she told me that she had a tummy ache and that's why she was hiding and she also has a bit of water in her chest (or lung area) - can't remember which one..and that's why she has a bit of labored breathing.. and she tried to move but she almost couldn't walk and sort of fell and I freaked out even more.. So, I went ahead and gave her a shot of Dex for the first time and see if it was going to help her if there was any inflammation - and I gave more interferon and some homeopathic remedy recommended by holistic experts.. I have been syringe feeding her every day , but last night, I did not want to bother her,, she hates me to do that so much and I wanted to give some peace and quiet... This morning, she somehow looked better - her hair coat is still so shiny and beautiful and she seems to be more alert and moved around a bit.. and I was so happy to see her feeling a bit better - I wanted to syringe feed her this morning, but I did not want to bother her as she really get annoyed.. so instead, I put a plate of the baby food in front of her.. I really did not expect to eat as she had not been eating on her own for the past couple of days --- but - that's when a miracle happened - she STARTED EATING the baby food on her own! I know it's a small thing,, but when your kitty has not been eating and become anorexia from having FIP, it's such a great improvement! I cried more --- of course.. I told her how proud of her I am and how much I loved her.. she almost sort of winked at me - Also, Jasmine told me that Dharma is feeling a lot of pressure from me wanting so badly to make her better -so instead,, I started since last night.. I started praying for what's best for Dharma and not what I want.. to become less selfish - and love Dharma the way she is and not expecting her to be more or less of who she is ..and I felt so much lighter and free.. and let go of all the controls and fears.. she is with me today.. and not being afraid of what could happen as it may never happen.. Nina--- I am repeating every few seconds.. have a faith, and not fear.. - and it's helping me and helping Dharma - and also not freak out as I did last night.. my little Dharma is teaching me a valuable lesson to me - I cannot force her what I want.. it's her body and give her some freedom.. I don't know what the future will hold for Dharma - today is a new day.. and all I know is that I will continue to love her no matter what. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail (http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/)
RE: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
That's interesting. I am told that epilepsy is rare in cats. I'll take a look at the Epiphen. I would love for Connie to have more normalcy in her life.Gina WN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I haveno experience with seizures. But, I asked a friend who lives in the UK about her kitty who has seizures and he gets something called Epiphen. The vet diagnosed him with a form of epilepsy and the medicine has helped him tremendously. Just wanted to let you know.Little Dharma and you are in my prayers,Gina Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaOK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor).That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps! Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AMSubject: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows: Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?:I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.Visit my Tigger Tales site! See my cats' gallery at Zazzle Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the new Yahoo.com
To Phaewryn Re: Help - situation I have gotten myself into
I completely agree with what you say about educating people. Therein lies the answer. :) Wendy --- Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, that's one crappily run rescue, sounds more like a group of people getting together to pull cats from a kill shelter to save them, with no PLAN. I've seen it many times, but most don't even bother trying to pull off considering themselves a rescue. There's another name for that, it's called HOARDING. It starts out like this... someone discovers that the world is a cruel place, and that animals die every second due to pet overpopulation. Poor bleeding heart tears open, and they begin to go visit the local kill shelter. Heart strings pull, every cat there is going to DIE, as they stare face first through the cage bars into the throes of the pet overpopulation crisis, they can't help but to save just this one. So they take home their first rescue. But the problem still exists, so next week, another trip to the kill shelter, more tears, and another cat gets rescued. Time passes on, and more cats come home. The house is now full of rescued cats, more than the poor bleeding hearted person can really care for. Things slide... vet visits get overlooked (maybe even spay/neuter appointments, leading to rescue kittens), water dishes don't get washed, litterboxes tend to get really bad before being changed, not because the person doesn't CARE, but just because it's TOO MUCH for one person to take on. But the shelter still fills up with cats, cats that are DYING every day. The rescuer realizes... I need help! Desperate, this rescuer goes online, maybe starts a yahoogroup, and posts pictures and stories of cats at this kill shelter, and begs people to foster a cat. Fosters come forward, pulled at the heartstrings of the tragedy in the pet overpopulation problem. They are convinced, by this rescuer (who may by now have come up with a website, a name for his/her rescue, and some kind of following), that they can make the difference, they can adopt this one kill shelter, and really turn the numbers around, make this one city or county a no kill city. More fosters get on board, but the influx of cats at this shelter never stops, because even though people are now pulling the cats from the shelter, there's no outreach to the community, and the BREEDERS (by breeders, I mean ANY unspayed or unneutered cat or dog) are still popping out more kittens. The cycle is sustainable, for a while, if they get more fosters, they may even make head-way, maybe they get it so the kill shelter never has a full cat room. Time passes, things are looking good, people feel like they are making a difference. But, then the fosters begin to realize, wait, am I fostering, or have I just adopted these cats?, because the rescuer never seems to be ready to have a cat they are fostering returned to the rescue to be adopted out. That's because the rescuer has also kept pulling cats all along, so there's never any space at the rescue. Still, more foster home requests keep coming, who can deny a face like Tigger's, or the cute little kittens about to be killed at the shelter? Now, there's a big GROUP of rescuers, some that consider themselves fosters because they pulled the cat under the name or direction of the rescue. But it's still the same as always, cats continue to come into the kill shelter, and members of the rescue GROUP keep pulling more and more cats, to save them all. Money goes into vet bills, expenses pile up, things take a turn for the worse, it's getting hard to pay for all the food, and litter, and keep up with the litterboxes, and bowls, and bedding. But the rescuer holds on to hope, because they are just fostering for another rescuer, and it's only temporary. But, the fact is, the act of simply PULLING from a kill shelter DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO THE PET OVERPOPULATION PROBLEM. It really sucks to think of it this way, BUT, if even just ONE of these rescuers pulling from the kill shelters took ALL the money spent on pulling cats (most shelters DO charge an adoption fee, even to rescues), feeding them, vetting them all, etc; and instead used the money to provide free spays and neuters to low income members of the city the kill shelter is located in or used it to create educational programs for that community, THAT would REALLY make the difference. Yes, cats WILL DIE. The Kill Shelters are NOT the enemy, the UNEDUCATED and POOR people of the community that don't or can't afford to get their pets altered are the enemies. The cycle wont stop by pulling cats from kill shelters. I know it SUCKS to consider that fact, but it's true, saving Tigger, Fluffy, Honey, Cotton, and Shadow, all cats that WOULD have DIED in the shelter, does not, and cannot ever make any difference to the GREATER ISSUE that underlies tragic face of pet overpopulation in our world. There are MUCH worse things than
Re: Tsunade dizzy
Has Tsunade been tested for hyperthyroidism? Vomiting is a symptom of that. Vomiting causes dehydration; make sure she is getting plenty of fluids even if you have to give them to her sub-Q. :) Wendy --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Tsunade threw up again today (twice) and did something that worries me. When she was throwing up, she was wobbly as if dizzy. The 2nd time she just threw up water and fur, but was so dizzy she fell over and her head was lying in the puke (she had her body on its side), and she just laid there for a moment. I lifted her up wiped her head clean. and after a while she was back to acting normal. It just scared me, any advice? thanks Chelsea Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited (http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited)
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Were necropsies performed on the ones who died? That is about the only way to be certain that a cat died of dry FIP.Some vets jump to the conclusion that they are seeing FIP, others refuse to see it. But you do need to consider differential diagnoses. From the Merck vet manual:"Differential diagnoses of effusive FIP with pleural effusion include cardiac insufficiency, neoplasia (lymphoma), pyothorax, chylothorax, cryptococcosis, lung lobe torsion, diaphragmatic hernia, and trauma (hemothorax). Differential diagnosis of noneffusive FIP includes neoplasia and other systemic infectious diseases such as toxoplasmosis, nocardiosis, actinomycosis, tuberculosis, and deep mycotic disease (cryptococcosis, coccidioidomycosis, histoplasmosis, blastomycosis)." http://merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/56900.htmI have heard of situations where people were sure it was FIP but explored other possibilities and it turned out that the cause was not FIP. FIP is very hard to diagnose except by necropsy so don't be so sure that you're dealing with FIP that you fail to look at other possible explanations.Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Its clinical and form lab results low grade intermittent fever, hypergloubmia, anemia (neurological sign (unevitis) on her eye.. I lost her sister Naomi to the same thing.. and also, Peter who was 1.5 years old.. now Rikki is showing some similar symptoms (lost weight, hypergloubmia, anemic..) -she has been responding very well to feline interferon for the past two months From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:51 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB The "we gotta talk" was directed at Barb re meningioma. HoweverTo Hideyo: Dry FIP absolutely can cause neurological problems, including seizures. But how was FIP diagnosed? I know how hard it is to diagnose dry FIP while a cat is still living. What other possibilities have been looked at? With FIP there really are no options. But there are other conditions wiith similar symptoms that would leave open the possibility of cure or treatment.Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaOK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor). That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps!Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AMSubject: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaDharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows:Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for
RE: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
This is one reason why I wonder if there is something going on besides FIP. We've had a few cases of FIP this year and last but always in rescue kittens under one year of age. Usually it hits within a month of spay/neuter surgery or rehoming. Stress is a trigger. You've had a lot of cases of presumed FIP in a short time period and somein older cats. (Genetically unrelated? FeLV positive or negative?) Look for other causes. There may be something other than FIP going on.Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:FIP stuff really worries me, its not supposed to be contagious but its going around among so many of my kitties within a such a short time.. and I guess thats really worrying me.. please tell me something I can stay positive.. JHideyoFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of NinaSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:23 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaHi Sweetie,Tell us more about the seizures. What exactly happened? My beloved Vixen Roo Vincent, (Siberian Husky), had seizures from what we suspect was a brain tumor. Her seizures were severe, she'd even loose her sight momentarily afterward. We had her on Phenobarbital for the last couple of months of her life. She didn't do well on it. It did control her seizures, but it had the side effect of making her dopey, (like she was drunk all the time), and gave her a ravenous, unquenchable appetite. I'm so sorry to hear about this latest development with little Dharma. Let us know what the vet has to say.Much love,NinaHideyo Yamamoto wrote: Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows:Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?:I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.
RE: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Ah, wellEpiphen is simply a brand name for phenobarbitol. http://www.nichols-online.co.uk/html/canine_epilepsy_information.html#Treatment So no radical new treatment there.Gina, I would be interested in your friend's experiences. It is rare for a cat to be born with epilepsy so we are feeling our way in the dark where Connie is concerned. Ruled outa lot of possibilities but have no definitive explanation for her seizures. She was maybe 3 months old when she had the first one.Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's interesting. I am told that epilepsy is rare in cats. I'll take a look at the Epiphen. I would love for Connie to have more normalcy in her life.Gina WN [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haveno experience with seizures. But, I asked a friend who lives in the UK about her kitty who has seizures and he gets something called Epiphen. The vet diagnosed him with a form of epilepsy and the medicine has helped him tremendously. Just wanted to let you know.Little Dharma and you are in my prayers,Gina Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaOK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor).That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps! Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito"My cat the clown: paying no mind to whom he should impress. Merely living his life, doing what pleases him, and making me smile." - Anonymous - Original Message From: Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; felvtalk@felineleukemia.org; CRF Family [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, November 1, 2006 8:31:16 AMSubject: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma Dharma had a couple of seizures last night it could be from epogen, or dex shot, or from FIP I was reading about the treatment and if underlying the cause of seizures is difficult to treat (which can be the case with Dharma if FIP is causing it, it suggest as follows:Phenobarbital is considered the initial drug of choice for feline epilepsy. Diazepam (valium) may also be effective but is more likely to cause liver problems. The dosage must be adjusted individually to minimize side-effects.- do you have any experience with any -- if epogen is causing seizures which is a possibility, does it mean I should not give it to her anymore?:I will be making a call to the vet this morning.. but any insight maybe appreciated.Visit my Tigger Tales site! See my cats' gallery at Zazzle Get your email and see which of your friends are online - Right on the new Yahoo.com
Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Hideyo, i can't remember did you have Naomi and Peter necropsied to confirm FIP? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: one vet's thoughts on sub-q ImmunoRegulin
I always insist all treatments occur in the exam room with me present (other than surgery, of course). Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
Well, FIP is likely to run through certain genetically similar cats, because it's a genetic fault that triggers it in cats, it's thought. So it's entirely possible that your area has a very NON-diverse breeding cat population, and so most of the rescues you get are from the same bloodlines. Not helpful info at all, I know, but it could explain why you are getting it so much there. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
Re: one vet's thoughts on sub-q ImmunoRegulin
I'm the same waythere have been times I've stayed thru surgeries too. I was there when Mai Mai had a liver biopsy and all sorts of other "procedures." It makes me very nervous when a vet does not want you around (assuming you are not hysterical or prone to faint at the sight of blood). Every time that has happened something went wrong. I can't say that the vet did anything wrong--just that something wrong happened as it can anytime. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 4:23 PM Subject: Re: one vet's thoughts on sub-q ImmunoRegulin I always insist all treatments occur in the exam room with me present (other than surgery, of course). Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html No virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
>From a rescue standpoint that doesn't come up that often. Usually you get cats from an array of geographical areas. If you're working on specific feral colonies or do purebreed rescue and get breeder dumps, you may see it but with shelter pulls you don't see closely related cats except for a litter of kittens.Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, FIP is likely to run through certain genetically similar cats, because it's a genetic fault that triggers it in cats, it's thought. So it's entirely possible that your area has a very NON-diverse breeding cat population, and so most of the rescues you get are from the same bloodlines. Not helpful info at all, I know, but it could explain why you are getting it so much there. PhaewrynPlease adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.htmlNo virus found in this outgoing message.Checked by AVG Free Edition.Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
RE: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
I know.. I have been rescuing cats for 7 years and never had the problem until just now recently.. and obviously I am so disturbed by this and feeling guilty so much. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 3:42 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma From a rescue standpoint that doesn't come up that often. Usually you get cats from an array of geographical areas. If you're working on specific feral colonies or do purebreed rescue and get breeder dumps, you may see it but with shelter pulls you don't see closely related cats except for a litter of kittens. Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, FIP is likely to run through certain genetically similar cats, because it's a genetic fault that triggers it in cats, it's thought. So it's entirely possible that your area has a very NON-diverse breeding cat population, and so most of the rescues you get are from the same bloodlines. Not helpful info at all, I know, but it could explain why you are getting it so much there. Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners: http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.html Special Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.html Find us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
No, it was never confirmed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB Hideyo, i can't remember did you have Naomi and Peter necropsied to confirm FIP? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Just backing up Susan, she's absolutely correct, it's impossible to diagnose FIP on a LIVING cat. You can hypothesize, but there's no sure diagnosis. Here are some excerpts from a few various websites that gives a good basic overview on diagnosing FIP, and the link to genetic factors: FIP has very diverse clinical manifestations, but there are no clinical signs associated that are unique for the disease. Initial clinical signs are often very vague, consisting of lethargy and loss of appetite. In some forms of the disease inflammatory lesions in the eye and nervous system can occur, resulting in visual disturbances and abnormal behavior, a wobbly gait or tremors. Around 12% of cats with non-effusive FIP develop neurological signs: often they become ataxic (wobbly and falling over when walking), they may have head tremors, fits, their eyes may dart from side to side instead of being focused. FIP is a vasculitis (inflammation of the blood vessels). The clinical signs which the cat develops depend on which blood vessels are damaged, and on which organ(s) the damaged blood vessels supplied. In dry FIP, the cat often has vague clinical signs, such as going off his or her food, losing weight, the coat looking dull. Many cats with dry FIP become jaundiced (icteric), when you look inside the eyelid, it looks yellow. If the cat has a pale nose, you may notice that that looks yellow. Many cats with dry FIP get signs in their eyes: usually the iris (the coloured part of the eye around the pupil) changes colour, parts of it may appear brown. The cat may bleed into the eye, or white precipitates appear on the cornea (the clear membrane on the front of the eye). Routine blood tests (haematology and biochemistry) are very helpful firstly in trying to exclude other causes for the clinical signs, and secondly to look for changes which may support a suspicion of FIP. Frequently the numbers of one type of white blood cell (lymphocytes) are low, there may be a mild anemia, blood protein levels are usually very high, and sometimes blood bilirubin (pigment from old red blood cells) levels are high. All these changes are very non-specific and do not make a diagnosis of FIP, but help to increase suspicion of the disease. In cats with neurological signs without any other abnormalities, MRI scan of the brain and analysis of CSF fluid can also be useful. Diagnosis of FIP FIP is a notoriously difficult condition to diagnose, many other conditions present with very similar clinical signs. Definitive diagnosis is only possible at post mortem, or occasionally by biopsy (though for accurate biopsy results one has to actually biopsy a visible pyogranulomatous lesion, which may necessitate laparotomy). Only 18% of samples sent to our laboratory for FIP diagnosis turn out to be FIP. Since cats with FIP are usually euthanased, it is absolutely vital that FIP is accurately differentiated from other, treatable, conditions. In our laboratory at the University of Glasgow, we offer an FIP profile which confirms or rules out a diagnosis of FIP in over 90% of cases. The FIP profile consists of four parts: a feline coronavirus (FCoV) antibody titre, albumin:globulin (A:G) ratio on the effusion or plasma, alpha 1-acid glycoprotein (AGP) level and cytology or haematology. Non-effusive (dry) FIP profile FCoV antibody titreFCoV antibody titres in dry FIP are usually equal to or greater than 1280. An antibody titre of zero rules out non-effusive FIP. Note: many healthy cats and cats with diseases other than FIP have FCoV antibodies. The presence of FCoV antibodies alone is NOT diagnostic of FIP, if the other parameters of the profile do not indicate a diagnosis of FIP. A healthy cat with a high FCoV antibody titre is NOT a cat with dry FIP. Albumin:Globulin ratio (A:G) In FIP the globulin concentration in serum or plasma is raised to over 40g/l. Consequently the A:G is usually lowered. An A:G of 0.4 indicates FIP is quite likely, provided that globulins are raised, remember than a low albumin (e.g. in liver disease) can also artificially lower the A:G. An A:G of 0.8 rules out FIP; A:G of between 0.4-0.8 - consider other parameters. AGP levelAGP is an acute phase protein which is useful in distinguishing FIP from other clinically similar conditions. In FIP, AGP levels are usually greater than 1500 ug/ml. In normal cats, its up to 500 ug/ml. Bear in mind, however, that AGP is not specific, and will also be raised if there is viral (non-FIP), bacterial (e.g. ascending cholangiohepatitis or pyelonephritis) or fungal infections or recent trauma. AGP measurement is useful in distinguishing FIP from neoplasia or non-infectious liver disease, when AGP levels will be normal. In the USA, AGP testing kits can be obtained from Cardiotech Serviceshttp://www.cardiotechservices.com/. Enquiries to Jeff Sarno [EMAIL PROTECTED] or call (502)473-7066. HaematologyIn non-effusive FIP there is
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Actually, my vet never really believed Naomi or Peter had FIP until they died I was the only one who thought that they did symptoms were so vague and my doctor thought that Naomi had a late start to grow.. and then, Naomis right eyes started showing neurological symptoms and did not know why.. I wish it was something else.. but I knew.. again,,I had to convince my vet at the end that it was.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:29 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB Were necropsies performed on the ones who died? That is about the only way to be certain that a cat died of dry FIP. Some vets jump to the conclusion that they are seeing FIP, others refuse to see it. But you do need to consider differential diagnoses. From the Merck vet manual: Differential diagnoses of effusive FIP with pleural effusion include cardiac insufficiency, neoplasia (lymphoma), pyothorax, chylothorax, cryptococcosis, lung lobe torsion, diaphragmatic hernia, and trauma (hemothorax). Differential diagnosis of noneffusive FIP includes neoplasia and other systemic infectious diseases such as toxoplasmosis, nocardiosis, actinomycosis, tuberculosis, and deep mycotic disease (cryptococcosis, coccidioidomycosis, histoplasmosis, blastomycosis). http://merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/56900.htm I have heard of situations where people were sure it was FIP but explored other possibilities and it turned out that the cause was not FIP. FIP is very hard to diagnose except by necropsy so don't be so sure that you're dealing with FIP that you fail to look at other possible explanations. Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its clinical and form lab results low grade intermittent fever, hypergloubmia, anemia (neurological sign (unevitis) on her eye.. I lost her sister Naomi to the same thing.. and also, Peter who was 1.5 years old.. now Rikki is showing some similar symptoms (lost weight, hypergloubmia, anemic..) -she has been responding very well to feline interferon for the past two months From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:51 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB The we gotta talk was directed at Barb re meningioma. However To Hideyo: Dry FIP absolutely can cause neurological problems, including seizures. But how was FIP diagnosed? I know how hard it is to diagnose dry FIP while a cat is still living. What other possibilities have been looked at? With FIP there really are no options. But there are other conditions wiith similar symptoms that would leave open the possibility of cure or treatment. Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma OK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved. Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur. The vet put her on a prednisone taper. The thought being that if there's a growth or swelling of some sort, the steroid would lessen it. Well, we learned that with Ninja and whatever was causing her seizures, that 5mg of prednisone twice a day was the only thing that held them at bay.We were unable to taper the dosage without herspiraling into what I called her 'bad days'. After about 2.5 months of this,the prednisone wasn't enough and weadded phenobarbital to her mix andher last 2 months were seizure-free. Based on the type of seizure she had and the frequencyand the drugs that were able to control them, thevet believed she had a meningioma (a type of brain tumor). That's all I know about seizures in cats and treating them. Hope it helps! Barb+Smoky the House Puma+El Bandito Malito My cat
Re: Treatment for Seizures: Dharma
I was under the impression most of Hideyo's rescues are from the local stray/feral population the surrounds her home. It seems I recall her mentioning how many ferals and strays she takes in from just outside her home. (I think it was, maybe that's been resolved now though?) Hideyo, are these cats you've lost to FIP (confirmed or presumed)all shelter pulls, or local strays from your immediate area? I could see it happening in rescue though, if dealing with ferals or a stray colony. If you trap and neuter all the males except one, and he gets around to many females, you'd have a very non-diverse genetic pool of local stray/feral cats you'd be dealing with. Phaewryn From a rescue standpoint that doesn't come up that often. Usually you get cats from an array of geographical areas. If you're working on specific feral colonies or do purebreed rescue and get breeder dumps, you may see it but with shelter pulls you don't see closely related cats except for a litter of kittens.Jennifer Phaewryn O'Gwynn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, FIP is likely to run through certain genetically similar cats, because it's a genetic fault that triggers it in cats, it's thought. So it's entirely possible that your area has a very NON-diverse breeding cat population, and so most of the rescues you get are from the same bloodlines. Not helpful info at all, I know, but it could explain why you are getting it so much there. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Then don't lock onto a diagnosis of FIP. Look for what else it might be. If you assume it's FIP then it's pretty much over and you can miss other treatable illnesses with similar symptoms.Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, it was never confirmed.-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BelindaSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:59 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARBHideyo,i can't remember did you have Naomi and Peter necropsied to confirmFIP?-- Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.com
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Don't be so sure. Last year, I thought I could tell. But I was (thankfully) wrong a couple of times, actually adopted one kitten ouot as a special needs kitten because I was so sure he was an FIP kitten. And there have been others where even in retrospect I would never have expected them to develop FIP, and they did.You can't tell. No one can. But if you make that assumption you foreclose the possibility of finding out that it is something else that can be treated. It isn't FIP until a necropsy tells you so. While the cat is still living, look for what else it could be. And take a close look at your environment, the common denominators for the cats who have died, and see if perhaps it is some thing there, something toxic that they''ve gotten into, something with the food or other substances ingestedwhat common denominators exist? Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Actually, my vet never really believed Naomi or Peter had FIP until they died I was the only one who thought that they did symptoms were so vague and my doctor thought that Naomi had a late start to grow.. and then, Naomis right eyes started showing neurological symptoms and did not know why.. I wish it was something else.. but I knew.. again,,I had to convince my vet at the end that it was..From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:29 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB Were necropsies performed on the ones who died? That is about the only way to be certain that a cat died of dry FIP.Some vets jump to the conclusion that they are seeing FIP, others refuse to see it. But you do need to consider differential diagnoses. From the Merck vet manual:"Differential diagnoses of effusive FIP with pleural effusion include cardiac insufficiency, neoplasia (lymphoma), pyothorax, chylothorax, cryptococcosis, lung lobe torsion, diaphragmatic hernia, and trauma (hemothorax). Differential diagnosis of noneffusive FIP includes neoplasia and other systemic infectious diseases such as toxoplasmosis, nocardiosis, actinomycosis, tuberculosis, and deep mycotic disease (cryptococcosis, coccidioidomycosis, histoplasmosis, blastomycosis)." http://merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/56900.htmI have heard of situations where people were sure it was FIP but explored other possibilities and it turned out that the cause was not FIP. FIP is very hard to diagnose except by necropsy so don't be so sure that you're dealing with FIP that you fail to look at other possible explanations.Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Its clinical and form lab results low grade intermittent fever, hypergloubmia, anemia (neurological sign (unevitis) on her eye.. I lost her sister Naomi to the same thing.. and also, Peter who was 1.5 years old.. now Rikki is showing some similar symptoms (lost weight, hypergloubmia, anemic..) -she has been responding very well to feline interferon for the past two months From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 11:51 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB The "we gotta talk" was directed at Barb re meningioma. HoweverTo Hideyo: Dry FIP absolutely can cause neurological problems, including seizures. But how was FIP diagnosed? I know how hard it is to diagnose dry FIP while a cat is still living. What other possibilities have been looked at? With FIP there really are no options. But there are other conditions wiith similar symptoms that would leave open the possibility of cure or treatment. Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Well there is no way that I am going to find out what is causing her seizurers.. she has FIP.. so it could be that.. or she is taking on epogen.. and I know it can cause it, too.. given said.. what are the options? Nothing?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan HoffmanSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:55 AMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: DharmaOK, we gotta talk. What type of seizures, what frequency, what led to the vet suspecting meningioma? Connie has dramatic grand mal seizures but has been maintained successfully on phenobarbitol for about 10 months now. We ruled out FIV, FeLV, FIP, toxoplasmosis with blood work but have not done the diagnostics to see if a brain tumor is involved.Barb Moermond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oof, that's tough, seizures are so hard to watch.Depending on the underlying cause of the seizures, there are different meds. Phenobarb is usually the first one reached for. Personally, when Ninja had seizures and the occurrance accelerated, all we knew was that she was FeLV+ and had a grade 3 heart murmur.
Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Speaking of toxins and common factors... I once had akitten get into the foundation (box spring) of an old mattress set I had in an extra room. The stuffing was toxic to some extent, anyways, he lived, but just goes to show, toxins are all around us. (he was unconscious when I found him, he later died of an unrelated accident). Phaewryn Please adopt a cat from Little Cheetah Cat Rescue!!! http://ucat.us/adopt.html Low cost SpayNeuter services in VT, and Emergency Financial Assistance for cat owners:http://ucat.us/VermontLowCost.htmlSpecial Needs Cat Resources: http://ucat.us/domesticcatlinks.html The Sofa Poem: http://ucat.us/sofapoem.htmlFind us on PETFINDER! http://petfinder.com/shelters/VT44.html No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.21/511 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Susan, I and my vet looked desperately for all other causes of what happened to them like I said.. my vet was so sure that my Naomi did not have FIP.. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 4:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB Then don't lock onto a diagnosis of FIP. Look for what else it might be. If you assume it's FIP then it's pretty much over and you can miss other treatable illnesses with similar symptoms. Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, it was never confirmed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB Hideyo, i can't remember did you have Naomi and Peter necropsied to confirm FIP? -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Letter to Vet
As I type this the Vet's office has gotten the letter of request. My daughter delivered by hand and in person to make sure they did get it. They can't say they didn't get any letter from me. She would be my witness. Hopefully, they will follow through if not sh+t will hit the pan. In a message dated 10/31/2006 4:27:03 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Tator Bunz writes: Okay, I have written a letter to the Vet requesting copies all records on Dukee. As the gal from the Veterinary Board suggested. I have my copy and a file of it as well. So it's in the mail. Will let you all know what happens whether I get them or not. Terrie Mohr-ForkerTAZZY'S ANIMAL TRANSPORTSSIAMESE COLLIE RESCUEDonations accepted at:https://www.paypal.com/http://www.tazzys-siameses-collies.petfinder.org/http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wasiameserescuehttp://hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/myhomepage/petmemorial.htmlhttp://www.felineleukemia.org/http://www.hometown.aol.com/tatorbunz/index.htmlhttp://www.petloss.com/
Re: To Tonya Re: Sharing price information
I mean expensive. lol. I'll get out some bills and post them to you when I get a chance. twendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean expensive or extensive?! lol...Send it to me; I'm compiling today but don't have muchto compile just yet.:)Wendy--- catatonya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: Is anyone going to gather this information? If so I'll be glad to send mine. Mine is quite expensive. t [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in a Milwaukee, WI suburb one of the vets we go to charges 115 for a senior wellness profile, 24 for the exam, 14 for a fecal, 50 for an X-ray, 32 for a snap test, 10 for ear cleaning, 14 for distemper vac. The cat-only clinic we go to is comparable in its rates, higher on some items, lower on others. I don't know what they currently charge for spay/neuter, b/c it's been 5 years since I've had to have that done. If I remember correctly, dentals at the cat only clinic are usually b/t 100-200, depending on if extractions were needed, etc. Yvonne In a message dated 10/9/2006 11:06:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a way we can give a geographical location and some basic ideas of what we pay for specific procedures, for example here several of the vets charge 165 for a senior panel,,,the SNAP combo test ranges for 39 to 60,,,A CBC is about 50,,Spay can go from 50 to 200Dentals from 100 to 400. I would like to compile something that could benefit others so they can see common prices and ranges in different areas and perhaps find a more cost efficient local vet.. I am in the Central Valley ( Fresno) of California. It is an ag based community, Kelly __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: To Tonya Re: Sharing price information
At 05:51 PM 11/1/2006, you wrote: More Price information One of my vets charges 89 for a Jr. Wellness Panel but 30 for an exam. Combo is 30 something, Another vet charges 59 for the Panel but 45 for the exam, Her combo test is 59 senior panel is 165.00 I mean expensive. lol. I'll get out some bills and post them to you when I get a chance. t wendy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you mean expensive or extensive?! lol... Send it to me; I'm compiling today but don't have much to compile just yet. :) Wendy --- catatonya wrote: Is anyone going to gather this information? If so I'll be glad to send mine. Mine is quite expensive. t [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm in a Milwaukee, WI suburb one of the vets we go to charges 115 for a senior wellness profile, 24 for the exam, 14 for a fecal, 50 for an X-ray, 32 for a snap test, 10 for ear cleaning, 14 for distemper vac. The cat-only clinic we go to is comparable in its rates, higher on some items, lower on others. I don't know what they currently charge for spay/neuter, b/c it's been 5 years since I've had to have that done. If I remember correctly, dentals at the cat only clinic are usually b/t 100-200, depending on if extractions were needed, etc. Yvonne In a message dated 10/9/2006 11:06:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is there a way we can give a geographical location and some basic ideas of what we pay for specific procedures, for example here several of the vets charge 165 for a senior panel,,,the SNAP combo test ranges for 39 to 60,,,A CBC is about 50,,Spay can go from 50 to 200Dentals from 100 to 400. I would like to compile something that could benefit others so they can see common prices and ranges in different areas and perhaps find a more cost efficient local vet.. I am in the Central Valley ( Fresno) of California. It is an ag based community, Kelly __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.22/512 - Release Date: 11/1/2006
Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
I have to agree with this, many cats die usually because a vet say's they have FIP and no other possibly treatable disease is checked into. There are several diseases that mimic FIP in symptoms, it would only be beneficial to make sure it isn't one of these, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Have you looked into or treat for anything other than FIP? Then don't lock onto a diagnosis of FIP. Look for what else it might be. If you assume it's FIP then it's pretty much over and you can miss other treatable illnesses with similar symptoms. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: Some good news since Luna
Kris,I'm so sorry for your loss of Luna. I'm glad you've got little Gabriel now.tSherry DeHaan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Kris that was such a sweet thing for your students to do.So sorry about Luna.Give Gabriel a scritch on the cheek for me. :) Sherry and her big fluff balls of love. Rafferty,CousCous,Xander and Tristan ^..^Kris Kulak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Hello Everyone,It's been almost a week without Luna. I still hurt, but have had something wonderful come out of this. I teach, and when I found out last Friday my little Luna's prognosis, I had a classroom full of students; my third period. They saw my reaction (I'm terrible at hiding how I feel). They had a ton of questions which I answered. Anyway, the weekend passed and on Monday, they wanted to know how Luna was. I told them. They were so sympathetic and all wanted to hug me (they're 6th graders) that it made me cry. The following day, Tuesday, I had a bunch of homemade sympathy cards. Also, one student brought me a dozen roses and a homemade card which he and his mom signed. To let you know how much more wonderful they are, apparently, behind my back, they were plotting to get me another kitty. The guidance counselor wanted to know if I was going to do something with cats in my class because many kids were asking her about them. Anyway, it turns out that one student had a kitten left from a litter that they couldn't find a home for. The kids decided that would be my new cat. The child along with her parents brought the kitten to my house Tuesday evening. How sweet is that? It's so nice to know that so many people care.I named him Gabriel after God's messenger angel. I felt the name was appropriate. I students were all angels and the kitty is a wonderful gift. Kris Do you Yahoo!?Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
Re: Giardia
I had Giardia when I was 7 yrs old. I think that it originates from Beavers Urine. My Dad had it and was in hospital for 5 weeks lost a lot of weight. I got it from swimming in a lake. Kayte and Crackers
how to get a cat to pee...
Ember may or may not have a UTI. She's been peeing in one of the sinks in our rooms for a few weeks, but will also pee in her litter box. When the vet tried to get a sample from her yesterday, there was nothing to get. He sent some non-absorbant plastic litter home with us. I put the litter in her box after removing the normal litter and left for work this morning. It's after 9 p.m., and I still have nothing to pour into a container for the vet to test. Any thoughts on how to make sure I get a sample? I know I could test with pH strips, but I want the vet to be able to test for whatever he's looking for. Thanks, Lance
Re: Vet Records/Morbid question
Excellent idea phawyren! I will donate all my sons old blankies he has and I love to croqet...I will make blankies and donate them. I love how your vet had little cofifns for the past pets. It is sad that they wrapped poor Dukee in a Science Diet box. Great idea about the blankies. Thanks Kayte and Crackers
Re: how to get a cat to pee...
Ember could also have bladder/kidney stones or crystals. They are difficult to test for in part because of size. Can you get Ember to drink lots of fluids? Chicken, tuna, whatever juice/broth? Canned food that has been watered down? You may need to confine her to a small cage with a litter box so she has no alternatives. If you have men who will exclude any of God's creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow man. St. Francis - Original Message - From: Lance [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 9:36 PM Subject: how to get a cat to pee... Ember may or may not have a UTI. She's been peeing in one of the sinks in our rooms for a few weeks, but will also pee in her litter box. When the vet tried to get a sample from her yesterday, there was nothing to get. He sent some non-absorbant plastic litter home with us. I put the litter in her box after removing the normal litter and left for work this morning. It's after 9 p.m., and I still have nothing to pour into a container for the vet to test. Any thoughts on how to make sure I get a sample? I know I could test with pH strips, but I want the vet to be able to test for whatever he's looking for. Thanks, Lance
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
With symptoms that she has -- there is nothing else we can come up with -- I would love it if anyone else can -- What I would like everyone to know is that I, more than anyone else in the world, Dharma not to have (or Naomi and Peter for that matter) FIP -- and, had researched all other possibilities than FIP --- but couldn't -- -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Belinda Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:16 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB I have to agree with this, many cats die usually because a vet say's they have FIP and no other possibly treatable disease is checked into. There are several diseases that mimic FIP in symptoms, it would only be beneficial to make sure it isn't one of these, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Have you looked into or treat for anything other than FIP? Then don't lock onto a diagnosis of FIP. Look for what else it might be. If you assume it's FIP then it's pretty much over and you can miss other treatable illnesses with similar symptoms. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
CNS/neurological problem..
Hi, has anyone have any experience in treating your cats with CNS/neological problems? Would acupuncture be helpful.. I am asking as if there is any way to treat symptoms when underlying cause is difficult to treat.. thank you.
RE: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARB
Could you summarize the symptoms? Was there a test for toxoplasmosis? That looks a lot like dry FIP, including seizures.Hideyo Yamamoto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With symptoms that she has -- there is nothing else we can come up with-- I would love it if anyone else can -- What I would like everyone to know is that I, more than anyone else inthe world, Dharma not to have (or Naomi and Peter for that matter) FIP-- and, had researched all other possibilities than FIP --- but couldn't---Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of BelindaSent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 7:16 PMTo: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgSubject: Re: Treatment for Seizures: TO BARBI have to agree with this, many cats die usually because a vet say'sthey have FIP and no other possibly treatable disease is checked into. There are several diseases that mimic FIP in symptoms, it would only be beneficial to make sure it isn't one of these, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Have you looked into or treat for anything other than FIP? Then don't lock onto a diagnosis of FIP. Look for what else it might be. If you assume it's FIP then it's pretty much over and you can miss other treatable illnesses with similar symptoms.-- Belindahappiness is being owned by cats ...Be-Mi-Kittieshttp://bemikitties.comPost Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.comFeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/clsHostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.comBMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.com
A story of a little miracle Dharma - Dharma has become an angel tonight..
Hi, my name is Dharma I am a little calico kitty with three paws and here is my story Once upon a time, there is a family Naomi, Dharma (me), and Simba and our mama we were only about 6-7 weeks old then, our mama kept us safe in a tiny hole under the crawl space of an abandoned house.. one day, the human decided to close down the crawl space so that they can renovate the house our mama kitty and we did not know what was going to happen to the hole--- so we hided and underneath of a tiny hole and we did not make any noise so no one could find us.. while our mama was out getting our food, a human friend, Hideyo came to catch us --- we tried so hard not to be caught as we were so afraid of being away from our mommy it took a several hours, but at the end, each of us was scooped by a little net to catch a little fishour mama saw us being taken away and she looked so worried.. and a friend Hideyo promised our mama that she was gong to so good care of us.. mama looked so sad and worried and we were so sad to be away from our mama.. we cried and cried.. We went to our friend Hideyos house, and she told us that she was going to take care of us like our mama to protect us --- it took for a while.. but we made some friends, and we played and ate and slept a lot. and then, my little sister Naomi started feeling not too good, I knew something was wrong and I wanted to take care of her so I groomed her all the time for her, our new mama, Hideyo was very worried and took her to the doctor.. but Naomi did not get better, and she decided that she wanted to leave the body as her body was not letting her to do things that she wanted to do.. and she wanted to be free so that she can play again..I was very mad at her leaving me.. but I knew that we would see each other again Our new mama was so sad to see Naomi goshe cried and cried.. but I knew that naomis sould was still with us at home.. but our mama Hideyo couldnt see After my sister Naomi became an angel, she got lonelyand she asked if I could come to where she was at and I said.. okay my little sister,,, I will come stay with you.. just give me three months as I wanted to have enough time to say good bye to my brother simba and our new mama hideyo. Today was exactly three months after Naomi became an angel.. I decided to join my sister so that we can play together.. I told simba not to be lonely..we are just one meow away from each other.. if he misses us,,, all he has to do is to meow and we will come play with simba.. but simba now has a lot of friends and I know that he wont be too lonely. I needed to be sick like Naomi was so that I could go to a kitty heaven where my sister was.. that was hard for our mama,, she cried and cried.. and wanted to make me feel better and wanted me to stay. And she gave me all sort of medicines,, but I hated them..but I tried to hold on as long as I could.. but my body got very tired.. I couldnt breath well.. and couldnt walk well and my mama finally old me its okay if I wanted to go.. because Naomi is lonely out there so tonight.. I said good bye to all my friends here at my house and joining my baby sister Naomi. Everyone thank your so much for all of your prayers and support.. I and Dharma are so grateful.. Dharma was and is such a strong little soul.. she ate the food on her own even an hour before she passed.. and she probably did it for me.. to make me feel better.. I wish I could stay with her longer.. I really did not expect her to go so soon.. today is November 1st.. she crossed the bridge at 10:44 pm exactly 3 months ago on 8/1, and exactly around the same time, Naomi passed away in my arm, too and seven days later,,, my little peter was also such a beautiful boy.. I cried so hard,, and I was so mad about what happened and did not know what to do.. have a big hole in my heartand its going to be empty for a long long time.. there are lots of things I wish.. but all I know for sure is that my Dharma has become free just like my Tsubomi, Peter, Naomi, Hannibal, Wami, Garfunkle, George, and Henry have ---I have to tell you, Naomi and Dharma have a such a strong soul.. I never met a kitty who was so determined and so strong.. its been such a pleasure to have met her and be able to take care of her.. Love to my dharma and all of my little angels, miss you so so terribly.. Your mama, Hideyo
Re: A story of a little miracle Dharma - Dharma has become an angel tonight..
Hideyo, What a beautiful story you wrote about your furangels. I'm so sorry to read about Dharma. I'm glad she was with you when she left to join her siblings at the bridge. She loved you to hang out so long...bless her sweet soul. Geez, just when my eyes were starting to get better from crying so much on Dukee once again I broke down while reading this one. Damn Felv/Fiv/FIP Good god all these recent losses is unreal. Be gentle to yourself as I have been told by others. We did what we could to try and make our furbabies better it just wasn't enough. God decided he needed them for now and that they would be with us again someday. Your in my prayers and thoughts! In a message dated 11/1/2006 11:28:39 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi, my name is Dharma – I am a little calico kitty with three paws and here is my story … Once upon a time, there is a family – Naomi, Dharma (me), and Simba and our mama – we were only about 6-7 weeks old then, our mama kept us safe in a tiny hole under the crawl space of an abandoned house.. one day, the human decided to close down the crawl space so that they can renovate the house – our mama kitty and we did not know what was going to happen to the hole--- so we hided and underneath of a tiny hole and we did not make any noise so no one could find us.. while our mama was out getting our food, a human friend, Hideyo came to catch us --- we tried so hard not to be caught as we were so afraid of being away from our mommy – it took a several hours, but at the end, each of us was scooped by a little net to catch a little fish…our mama saw us being taken away and she looked so worried.. and a friend Hideyo promised our mama that she was gong to so good care of us.. mama looked so sad and worried – and we were so sad to be away from our mama.. we cried and cried.. We went to our friend Hideyo’s house, and she told us that she was going to take care of us like our mama to protect us --- it took for a while.. but we made some friends, and we played and ate and slept a lot…. and then, my little sister Naomi started feeling not too good, I knew something was wrong and I wanted to take care of her so I groomed her all the time for her, our new mama, Hideyo was very worried and took her to the doctor.. but Naomi did not get better, and she decided that she wanted to leave the body as her body was not letting her to do things that she wanted to do.. and she wanted to be free so that she can play again..I was very mad at her leaving me.. but I knew that we would see each other again… Our new mama was so sad to see Naomi go…she cried and cried.. but I knew that naomi’s sould was still with us at home.. but our mama Hideyo couldn’t see… After my sister Naomi became an angel, she got lonely…and she asked if I could come to where she was at… and I said.. okay my little sister,,, I will come stay with you.. just give me three months as I wanted to have enough time to say good bye to my brother simba and our new mama hideyo…. Today was exactly three months after Naomi became an angel.. I decided to join my sister so that we can play together.. I told simba not to be lonely..we are just one meow away from each other.. if he misses us,,, all he has to do is to meow and we will come play with simba.. but simba now has a lot of friends and I know that he won’t be too lonely…. I needed to be sick like Naomi was so that I could go to a kitty heaven where my sister was.. that was hard for our mama,, she cried and cried.. and wanted to make me feel better and wanted me to stay. And she gave me all sort of medicines,, but I hated them..but I tried to hold on as long as I could.. but my body got very tired.. I couldn’t breath well.. and couldn’t walk well and my mama finally old me it’s okay if I wanted to go.. because Naomi is lonely out there… so tonight.. I said good bye to all my friends here at my house and joining my baby sister Naomi…. Everyone – thank your so much for all of your prayers and support.. I and Dharma are so grateful.. Dharma was and is such a strong little soul.. she ate the food on her own even an hour before she passed.. and she probably did it for me.. to make me feel better.. I wish I could stay with her longer.. I really did not expect her to go so soon.. today is November 1st.. she crossed the bridge at 10:44 pm… exactly 3 months ago on 8/1, and exactly around the same time, Naomi passed away in my arm, too… and seven days later,,, my little peter was also such a beautiful boy.. I cried so hard,, and I was so mad about what happened and did not know what to do.. have a big hole in my heart…and it’s going to be empty for a long long time.. there are lots of things I wish.. but all I know for sure is that my Dharma has become free just like my
