Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone

[Lance]

Thanks for your thoughts, Margo. I am so ready for the bupenorphine to get 
here, but it has to be compounded and shipped from Roadrunner Pharmacy. I'm not 
sure that my vet approves of me giving it to Ember now, but I convinced her 
that we needed it asap, as I didn't want Ember displaying severe pain on a 
Friday afternoon, and we'd have to wait for five days just to get what we need 
to deal with it.

I don't want to give tramadol unless there's an obvious need before the 
bupenorphine gets here. I've read that it's terribly bitter, and I don't want 
to cause pilling aversion in Ember. If I had some gel caps, I would try to give 
it to her. The bup will definitely be easier to give.

Best to you and Gribble,

Lance

On May 19, 2013, at 9:26 PM, Margo  wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Hi Lance and Ember,
> 
>While I've never had a problem with metacam, I refuse it when 
> possible. When Gribble was first diagnosed as FeLV positive, his fever was 
> very high, an we neeed an anti-inflammatory. I chose Ketoprofen, and we had 
> good results. It was used for 5 days.
> 
>For pain, I'd suggest buprenorphine (Buprenex) or Tramadol, with 
> my preference being the buprenorphine, as it is both easy to give, and to 
> adjust dose-wise. It is often first prescribed at too high (in my opinion) a 
> dose, but I have good luck with starting at a lower dose and working up to an 
> amount that makes the cat comfortable but not loopy or groggy. Torb doesn't 
> last very long.
> 
>I would avoid steroids in an immune compromised critter, so for me 
> and FeLV+ Gribble, Prenisolone is out. 
> 
>Every cat is different, and I'm certainly no Vet, but I hope you 
> can reach an understanding with your Vet(s) that can keep Ember comfortable 
> and happy.
> 
> All the nest,
> 
> Margo
> 


___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone

[Margo]

Hi Lance, 
 
 I have no experience with lung cancer, but recently had to deal with oral squamous cell carcinoma in my cat (Pattern). Pattern lived 10 months after an initial surgery, and buprenorphine never seemed to lose effectiveness. I did up the dose near the end, but she never seemed uncomfortable. But, on oncologist certainly knows more than I do. Still, I have never heard any suggestion of using metacam long term, but maybe that's a protcol for certain circumstances.
 
 I'll look for more complete info.
 
All the best,
 
Margo
 
 -Original Message- From: Lance Sent: May 19, 2013 10:16 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone Thanks, Janine and Susan. I should have noted that I have some tramadol here, but I'm avoiding using it as I have some compounded buprenorphine due here on Wednesday. I was considering giving Ember one metacam dose in the meantime. Would a metacam injection be "better" (more safe for her kidneys) than the oral dose I would give? 

Ember's primary vet consulted with a veterinary oncologist at a nearby university, and the oncologist said that using opioids now would make them less effective down the road, which is why she recommended metacam. Granted, Ember is doing fairly well, but how would we know when to switch from metacam to an opioid? When is "down the road"?

If anyone has had some experience with feline lung cancer, I'd really like to hear more about it. My main concern is to make sure that Ember doesn't suffer, and I worry that, despite only a few minor behavioral changes, Ember is dealing with significant pain. I wish cats weren't so good at hiding their hurt.

Lance




On May 19, 2013, at 8:54 PM, janine paton  wrote:



I am so not a fan of metacam either, other than one or two days.  More than one day is off label and for good reason.  Agree with Susan, use torbulgesic or buprenex, which addresses cancer pain much better.  I don't get why vets continue to use metacam.   Maybe they will stop when they have a cat go into kidney failure, which is why my vet stopped using it.  I would say talk to another vet about this, not the ones recommending the metacam.  

Janine



From: Susan Hoffman To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 9:31:03 PMSubject: Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone
I'm a fan of metacam.  I've never used it in an FeLV cat and you cannot use it if a cat has kidney issues, but for mild pains, like aches and sprains and arthritis, it helps.  But it's given in a tiny amount, weight-based, and only every two or three days. Don't overdo it.  Also, it is an antinflammatory so I would not give it with pred.  I'vr never had it prescribed with pred.For a tumor however you may need a stronger pain med, like torbulgesic or buprenex, so talk to your vet about this.






From: Lance To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:58 PMSubject: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone
Hi all,I posted recently about my FeLV+ girl, Ember. Since she most likely has (at least) a lung tumor, I'm going to get her on pain meds soon, despite the fact that most of the differences in her behavior are minor. Our "second opinion" vet prescribed metacam, and an oncologist who consulted with Ember's primary vet also recommended metacam. These are smart, experienced folks with lots of education. But, I'm seeing so much outcry over metacam online that I'm very reluctant to give it to Ember. I'd love to ease any discomfort she might be having, and metacam would be easy to give. What are your thoughts on metacam?I'm also wondering if prednisone might be helpful in reducing any inflammation that Ember is dealing with. I know people on the list have used it, but I'm concerned about its ability to create low wbc. Ember already has that issue, due to being FeLV+. Would folks who have pred experience in FeLV+ cats mind posting your experiences?Thanks,Lance___Felvtalk mailing listFelvtalk@felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
___Felvtalk mailing listFelvtalk@felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone

[Margo]

Hi Lance and Ember,

While I've never had a problem with metacam, I refuse it when 
possible. When Gribble was first diagnosed as FeLV positive, his fever was very 
high, an we neeed an anti-inflammatory. I chose Ketoprofen, and we had good 
results. It was used for 5 days.

For pain, I'd suggest buprenorphine (Buprenex) or Tramadol, with my 
preference being the buprenorphine, as it is both easy to give, and to adjust 
dose-wise. It is often first prescribed at too high (in my opinion) a dose, but 
I have good luck with starting at a lower dose and working up to an amount that 
makes the cat comfortable but not loopy or groggy. Torb doesn't last very long.

I would avoid steroids in an immune compromised critter, so for me 
and FeLV+ Gribble, Prenisolone is out. 

Every cat is different, and I'm certainly no Vet, but I hope you 
can reach an understanding with your Vet(s) that can keep Ember comfortable and 
happy.

All the nest,

Margo


-Original Message-
>From: Lance 
>Sent: May 19, 2013 8:58 PM
>To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
>Subject: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone
>
>Hi all,
>
>I posted recently about my FeLV+ girl, Ember. Since she most likely has (at 
>least) a lung tumor, I'm going to get her on pain meds soon, despite the fact 
>that most of the differences in her behavior are minor. Our "second opinion" 
>vet prescribed metacam, and an oncologist who consulted with Ember's primary 
>vet also recommended metacam. 
>
>These are smart, experienced folks with lots of education. But, I'm seeing so 
>much outcry over metacam online that I'm very reluctant to give it to Ember. 
>I'd love to ease any discomfort she might be having, and metacam would be easy 
>to give. What are your thoughts on metacam?
>
>I'm also wondering if prednisone might be helpful in reducing any inflammation 
>that Ember is dealing with. I know people on the list have used it, but I'm 
>concerned about its ability to create low wbc. Ember already has that issue, 
>due to being FeLV+. Would folks who have pred experience in FeLV+ cats mind 
>posting your experiences?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Lance
>___
>Felvtalk mailing list
>Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone

[Lance]

Thanks, Janine and Susan. I should have noted that I have some tramadol here, 
but I'm avoiding using it as I have some compounded buprenorphine due here on 
Wednesday. I was considering giving Ember one metacam dose in the meantime. 
Would a metacam injection be "better" (more safe for her kidneys) than the oral 
dose I would give? 

Ember's primary vet consulted with a veterinary oncologist at a nearby 
university, and the oncologist said that using opioids now would make them less 
effective down the road, which is why she recommended metacam. Granted, Ember 
is doing fairly well, but how would we know when to switch from metacam to an 
opioid? When is "down the road"?

If anyone has had some experience with feline lung cancer, I'd really like to 
hear more about it. My main concern is to make sure that Ember doesn't suffer, 
and I worry that, despite only a few minor behavioral changes, Ember is dealing 
with significant pain. I wish cats weren't so good at hiding their hurt.

Lance

On May 19, 2013, at 8:54 PM, janine paton  wrote:

> I am so not a fan of metacam either, other than one or two days.  More than 
> one day is off label and for good reason.  Agree with Susan, use torbulgesic 
> or buprenex, which addresses cancer pain much better.  I don't get why vets 
> continue to use metacam.   Maybe they will stop when they have a cat go into 
> kidney failure, which is why my vet stopped using it.  I would say talk to 
> another vet about this, not the ones recommending the metacam.  
> 
> Janine
> 
> From: Susan Hoffman 
> To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
> Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 9:31:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone
> 
> I'm a fan of metacam.  I've never used it in an FeLV cat and you cannot use 
> it if a cat has kidney issues, but for mild pains, like aches and sprains and 
> arthritis, it helps.  But it's given in a tiny amount, weight-based, and only 
> every two or three days. Don't overdo it.  Also, it is an antinflammatory so 
> I would not give it with pred.  I'vr never had it prescribed with pred.
> 
> For a tumor however you may need a stronger pain med, like torbulgesic or 
> buprenex, so talk to your vet about this.
> 
> 
> From: Lance 
> To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
> Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:58 PM
> Subject: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I posted recently about my FeLV+ girl, Ember. Since she most likely has (at 
> least) a lung tumor, I'm going to get her on pain meds soon, despite the fact 
> that most of the differences in her behavior are minor. Our "second opinion" 
> vet prescribed metacam, and an oncologist who consulted with Ember's primary 
> vet also recommended metacam. 
> 
> These are smart, experienced folks with lots of education. But, I'm seeing so 
> much outcry over metacam online that I'm very reluctant to give it to Ember. 
> I'd love to ease any discomfort she might be having, and metacam would be 
> easy to give. What are your thoughts on metacam?
> 
> I'm also wondering if prednisone might be helpful in reducing any 
> inflammation that Ember is dealing with. I know people on the list have used 
> it, but I'm concerned about its ability to create low wbc. Ember already has 
> that issue, due to being FeLV+. Would folks who have pred experience in FeLV+ 
> cats mind posting your experiences?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Lance
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> 
> 
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone

[janine paton]

I am so not a fan of metacam either, other than one or two days.  More than one 
day is off label and for good reason.  Agree with Susan, use torbulgesic or 
buprenex, which addresses cancer pain much better.  I don't get why vets 
continue to use metacam.   Maybe they will stop when they have a cat go into 
kidney failure, which is why my vet stopped using it.  I would say talk to 
another vet about this, not the ones recommending the metacam.  

Janine




From: Susan Hoffman 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" 
Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 9:31:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone


I'm a fan of metacam.  I've never used it in an FeLV cat and you cannot use it 
if a cat has kidney issues, but for mild pains, like aches and sprains and 
arthritis, it helps.  But it's given in a tiny amount, weight-based, and only 
every two or three days. Don't overdo it.  Also, it is an antinflammatory so I 
would not give it with pred.  I'vr never had it prescribed with pred.

For a tumor however you may need a stronger pain med, like torbulgesic or 
buprenex, so talk to your vet about this.





 From: Lance 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:58 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone
 

Hi all,

I posted recently about my FeLV+ girl, Ember. Since she most likely has (at 
least) a lung tumor, I'm going to get her on pain meds soon, despite the fact 
that most of the differences in her behavior are minor. Our "second opinion" 
vet 
prescribed metacam, and an oncologist who consulted with Ember's primary vet 
also recommended metacam. 


These are smart, experienced folks with lots of education. But, I'm seeing so 
much outcry over metacam online that I'm very reluctant to give it to Ember. 
I'd 
love to ease any discomfort she might be having, and metacam would be easy to 
give. What are your thoughts on metacam?

I'm also wondering if prednisone might be helpful in reducing any inflammation 
that Ember is dealing with. I know people on the list have used it, but I'm 
concerned about its ability to create low wbc. Ember already has that issue, 
due 
to being FeLV+. Would folks who have pred experience in FeLV+ cats mind posting 
your  experiences?

Thanks,

Lance
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone

[Susan Hoffman]

I'm a fan of metacam.  I've never used it in an FeLV cat and you cannot use it 
if a cat has kidney issues, but for mild pains, like aches and sprains and 
arthritis, it helps.  But it's given in a tiny amount, weight-based, and only 
every two or three days. Don't overdo it.  Also, it is an antinflammatory so I 
would not give it with pred.  I'vr never had it prescribed with pred.

For a tumor however you may need a stronger pain med, like torbulgesic or 
buprenex, so talk to your vet about this.





 From: Lance 
To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org"  
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 5:58 PM
Subject: [Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone
 

Hi all,

I posted recently about my FeLV+ girl, Ember. Since she most likely has (at 
least) a lung tumor, I'm going to get her on pain meds soon, despite the fact 
that most of the differences in her behavior are minor. Our "second opinion" 
vet prescribed metacam, and an oncologist who consulted with Ember's primary 
vet also recommended metacam. 

These are smart, experienced folks with lots of education. But, I'm seeing so 
much outcry over metacam online that I'm very reluctant to give it to Ember. 
I'd love to ease any discomfort she might be having, and metacam would be easy 
to give. What are your thoughts on metacam?

I'm also wondering if prednisone might be helpful in reducing any inflammation 
that Ember is dealing with. I know people on the list have used it, but I'm 
concerned about its ability to create low wbc. Ember already has that issue, 
due to being FeLV+. Would folks who have pred experience in FeLV+ cats mind 
posting your experiences?

Thanks,

Lance
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

[Felvtalk] metacam and prednisone

[Lance]

Hi all,

I posted recently about my FeLV+ girl, Ember. Since she most likely has (at 
least) a lung tumor, I'm going to get her on pain meds soon, despite the fact 
that most of the differences in her behavior are minor. Our "second opinion" 
vet prescribed metacam, and an oncologist who consulted with Ember's primary 
vet also recommended metacam. 

These are smart, experienced folks with lots of education. But, I'm seeing so 
much outcry over metacam online that I'm very reluctant to give it to Ember. 
I'd love to ease any discomfort she might be having, and metacam would be easy 
to give. What are your thoughts on metacam?

I'm also wondering if prednisone might be helpful in reducing any inflammation 
that Ember is dealing with. I know people on the list have used it, but I'm 
concerned about its ability to create low wbc. Ember already has that issue, 
due to being FeLV+. Would folks who have pred experience in FeLV+ cats mind 
posting your experiences?

Thanks,

Lance
___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org