Re: lyrics spacing (was Re: [Finale] Re: score vs. finale)
On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:18 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Convey to them the fun of being able to look critically at the editor's choices, and teach them how much more rewarding it is to make your own decisions. They'll be better musicians for it. I've known many singers who take an interest in making their own artistic decisions. I'm not sure that's quite the same as wanting to know who the editor of a work is. You can look at three or four editions of a song and decide which ones you like better without any reference to who made the choices or how authentic they are. Maybe I'm a clod. I prefer Parisotti editions of those Italian songs, in spite of knowing how inauthentic they are. mdl ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Transpositions
On 19.10.2006 Owain Sutton wrote: Offhand, I'm pretty sure that Shostakovich and Bartok didn't play any string instruments. To be honest, I have no idea. However, I didn't mean to master the instrument. But at least learn to play a few notes, this will tell you some of the difficulties, but also beauties of idiomatic writing. My advice: take viola lessons, you will probably get your first gigs after only a few lessons... Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: lyrics spacing (was Re: [Finale] Re: score vs. finale)
Mark D Lew wrote: On Oct 17, 2006, at 11:07 PM, dc wrote: Dennis (more of a font-geek) Font-geek is what my wife calls us, and it's what I initially wrote in my post. But then I remembered how my friend and my brother insist that type-geek is the more accurate term. Does that make your friend and your brother term-geeks? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
Mark D Lew wrote: On Oct 18, 2006, at 12:38 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: I don't know. The answer to this is un-cle-ar to me. Of your mother's brother and your father's brother, which one did you find uncle-y-er? Shouldn't that have been avuncularer? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
David W. Fenton wrote: On 18 Oct 2006 at 19:59, Mark D Lew wrote: For counter-example, the word envelope is pronounced like on-velope by roughly the same percentage of Americans who say nucular, but you rarely hear complaints about it. But the nucular pronunciation gets the letters in the wrong order, while the on-velope is simply a holdover pronunciation from its French origins (I would presume). There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. Well, historically the word girl used to be gril in old-English, but over years usage changed to the easier to say modern order of the letters. Things like failing to pronounce K in knight or knife are the same mispronunciation that we now accept as the educated rule, yet at one time those letters were pronounced. The P in pneumonia is the same thing. The French are stuck with having to pronounce that P at the start of a similar word pneu and the Germans are stuck with pronouncing Ks at the starts of words. But the English simply stopped pronouncing them years ago. I'm sure that on some medieval internet-list concerning the quality of foolscap or the newly evolving musical notations they were bemoaning the mispronunciations of those words, as well. So all this griping about nucular instead of nuclear is just so much whistling into the wind -- it's going to change or not on a permanent basis whenever it will happen and we're helpless to stop it if it's going to occur. Thank goodness we don't have a damned Academy of English to force its concepts of proper pronunciation on us, and our language can and does continue to evolve around us, even as many complain about new uses of words and new pronunciations of older words. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Simple Entry question
How do you start the simple entry caret with the mouse after a few measures rest, without entering a note? Everytime I try to do this, I enter a note. When I erase it, the caret jumps back to the last note before the whole measure rests, that's a nuissance. I am sure there must be a better way... Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
From: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote This makes me wonder: do people who say nucular also say nuculus? Nuculotide? Enuculated? Nuculons? Nuculic acids? Just wondering. Probably not anymore than people who say gren-ich instead of green-wich say they're wearing a gren sweater instead of green sweater. Gren-itch is standard BBC pronunciation for Greenwich, England, and green-witch for Greenwich Village, but the inhabitants of Greenwich, England, mostly call it grin-itch. -- Ken Moore ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Transpositions
Will Denayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I usually write everything in C first and then write it over for the transposing instruments. I understand now that I can write everything as in C in Finale and then use the transposition tool where needed. This is great. The transposition tool is one of two ways to cope with this. I compose using a similar procedure, but use the staff tool to set up the transpositions and then display in concert pitch (rather unobviously, this is in the option menu) to save having to remember the transpositions. It's not all gain, because instead of working out each note, one occasionally has to remember the lowest note of e.g. a cor anglais or a tenor sax in concert pitch. On a completely different note: does anyone of you know of a good source for writing quartets? [...] The only text on orchestration I have is Piston, which I think is a good work, but for me his explanation on the string section is much too short. I have Blatter, Instrumentation and Orchestration (ISBN 0-00-02-82-864570-70-7). It has 48 pages on the orchestral strings, of which 7 are specifically on the 'cello. Another chapter, of 32 pages, is called Orchestration: Scoring for Various Ensembles, of which 7 pages are specifically for strings. However, the string quartet is not mentioned. -- Ken Moore ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
At 10/18/2006 04:50 PM, John Roberts wrote: Grenich is correct for lower Manhattan, but Green-wich is correct for the town just northwest of Albany NY. And Grenich is also just outside of NYC in Conn. And the street in NYC is House-ton. Oh, right. I got corrected on that one. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] quartertone Speedy with MIDI?
Is there a way to enter quartertone music using a MIDI keyboard? I am sure I don't have to explain the problem... (I don't mind doing the accidentals with the + and - keys, but I would like to get at least the diatonic pitch). Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: fonts for jazz - comparison?
i'm possibly going to be involved in a project where the choice of jazz fonts or not won't be up to me. i haven't used jazz fonts at all, and the last time i compared any of them was around 5 years ago. i remember seeing 3 or 4 designed by someone whose name i can't remember (les somebody?) that i found quite elegant. what don't you guys like about Jazz (comes with finale)? is there a list of available jazz fonts somewhere? From: Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd second this. Bill's articulations font (plus all his other great fonts, like rehearsal and enclosure) and Maestro font make for clear, professional looking charts. Chuck Israels wrote: I use Maestro combined with Bill Duncan's chord font (that I find to be beautiful, clear, and relatively compact in relation to its readability) and a few of his other special fonts for rehearsal letters and articulations. While there are some who like the Finale Jazz font, I find it unpleasant (I'm speaking in my courteous web -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: score vs. finale
From: David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not really interested in Score per se then why do you keep asking questions about it? -- I'm interested in why you're going on a campaign denigrating Finale in favor of Score call it a campaign if you want, that's not how i see it. there are things to denigrate in finale that affect my work in a negative way. i have also clearly stated that i am aware of score's limitations, but that i find there are some interesting things about the programme. your needs are very different than mine, of course you may disagree with anything i say about the programme, which doesn't mean i'm wrong, in any absolute sense. when you don't seem to know a whole lot more about it than I do. it seems to me i've answered a number of questions you had about the programme, perhaps not entirely to your satisfaction, but your satisfaction isn't my interest here. i stated right from the start that i spent only a little time with the programme; clearly my knowledge of score is not at the same level as my knowledge of finale. i also don't feel i have anything to prove regarding my level of knowledge of the programme in relation to yours. cheers, jef -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Transpositions
Bartók came from a class and an environment in which playing violin, piano, and perhaps cello were altogether ordinary skills, and music was practically defined by the Austro-Germanic repertoire. As a pianist, he became familiar with the Beethoven violin sonatas in his late childhood or early teens. I'd say that his knowledge of the violin and its repertoire, whether or not he ever touched the thing, was intimate. DJW On 19.10.2006 Owain Sutton wrote: Offhand, I'm pretty sure that Shostakovich and Bartok didn't play any string instruments. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] quartertone Speedy with MIDI?
(1) Set up a non-standard key signature for quartertones, with one (2a) If you wish to input, via midi, the 12tet values and then do the quartertone modifications by hand, then in Key Signature Nonstandard Key Sognature Special Key Signature Attributes, set Go to Key Unit at 2. (2b) If you wish to input, via midi, the 24tet values directly, so that one acoustic octave is spread over two octaves of your midi keyboard, then n Key Signature Nonstandard Key Sognature Special Key Signature Attributes, set Go to Key Unit at 1. (3) If you wish to hear the quartertones play back in realtime, within Finale as an editor or sequencer, in Windows, send the midi output to a virtual (loopback) port, and send the output of that port to InTun with a quartertone scale file loaded. Or, send to a synth with a full keyboard retuning to quartertones. (4) If you wish to hear the quartertones play back outside of Finale, export a midi file, and add the tuning as midi pitchbends via Scala. DJW Johannes Gebauer wrote: Is there a way to enter quartertone music using a MIDI keyboard? I am sure I don't have to explain the problem... Johannes ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
On 19 Oct 2006 at 10:31, Ken Moore wrote: Gren-itch is standard BBC pronunciation for Greenwich, England, and green-witch for Greenwich Village, but the inhabitants of Greenwich, England, mostly call it grin-itch. Then for Greenwich Village in NYC, their pronunciation is in error, as it should be identical to the pronunciation you provide for Greenwich, England. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: score vs. finale
On 19 Oct 2006 at 13:45, shirling neueweise wrote: From: David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not really interested in Score per se then why do you keep asking questions about it? Because you keep saying it's so much better than Finale. -- I'm interested in why you're going on a campaign denigrating Finale in favor of Score call it a campaign if you want, that's not how i see it. there are things to denigrate in finale that affect my work in a negative way. i have also clearly stated that i am aware of score's limitations, but that i find there are some interesting things about the programme. your needs are very different than mine, of course you may disagree with anything i say about the programme, which doesn't mean i'm wrong, in any absolute sense. Score solves a very limited set of very well in terms of quality of output. But it requires the use of a very limiting UI model in order to do so. when you don't seem to know a whole lot more about it than I do. it seems to me i've answered a number of questions you had about the programme, perhaps not entirely to your satisfaction, but your satisfaction isn't my interest here. i stated right from the start that i spent only a little time with the programme; clearly my knowledge of score is not at the same level as my knowledge of finale. i also don't feel i have anything to prove regarding my level of knowledge of the programme in relation to yours. That's not the point. There are many elements of Score that are clearly substandard for a modern publishing application. I'm just pointing those out in response to what looks to me like a rose- colored-glasses view of Score. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
At 10/19/2006 09:05 AM, David W. Fenton wrote: On 19 Oct 2006 at 10:31, Ken Moore wrote: Gren-itch is standard BBC pronunciation for Greenwich, England, and green-witch for Greenwich Village, but the inhabitants of Greenwich, England, mostly call it grin-itch. Then for Greenwich Village in NYC, their pronunciation is in error, as it should be identical to the pronunciation you provide for Greenwich, England. I have never heard anybody call Grenich Village, Green-witch Village. And I have been there a few times. Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
At 09:05 AM 10/19/06 -0400, David W. Fenton wrote: On 19 Oct 2006 at 10:31, Ken Moore wrote: Gren-itch is standard BBC pronunciation for Greenwich, England, and green-witch for Greenwich Village, but the inhabitants of Greenwich, England, mostly call it grin-itch. Then for Greenwich Village in NYC, their pronunciation is in error, as it should be identical to the pronunciation you provide for Greenwich, England. Depends on the generation, just like Ann sounds like Ian for some but not others. I grew up in New Jersey in the 1950s, and it was always Grin-itch. The -en sound was often said as -in, making my name Dinnis. And speaking of eggcorns (back to that off-topic topic), I read a piece in Salon two days ago where someone talked about widdling down the resolve of a country. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] quartertone Speedy with MIDI?
On 19.10.2006 Daniel Wolf wrote: (1) Set up a non-standard key signature for quartertones, with one (2a) If you wish to input, via midi, the 12tet values and then do the quartertone modifications by hand, then in Key Signature Nonstandard Key Sognature Special Key Signature Attributes, set Go to Key Unit at 2. Does this work for you? I am actually trying this out for an eighthstone scale, so the value should be 4, right? Well, I still get the d to display when I play a g on the keyboard. Am I missing something? Johannes -- http://www.musikmanufaktur.com http://www.camerata-berolinensis.de ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] How do you copy a Finale file to Windows Media Player?
File--Save As Audio Open the Resulting Audio File in Windows Media Player -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Rhodes Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:35 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] How do you copy a Finale file to Windows Media Player? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: What are the quarter notes at the top for?
You're in Studio View. The quarter notes are the Tempo Tap Staff. It's kinda like a conductor tack in a sequencer. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:28 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Re: What are the quarter notes at the top for? Yes, I have looked at the documentation. I have Finale 2006. Those weren't in previous versions that I had. But I don't understand what those quarter notes at the top of the form are supposed to do for me. They correspond to the beats in the measure, obviously. Or you can refer me to the proper place where I can look it up. So far, I haven't found it. Pardon my ignorance - Thanks; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: What are the quarter notes at the top for?
I forgot to mention. It's in Help--What's new in Finale 2006. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fisher, Allen Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 9:25 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: RE: [Finale] Re: What are the quarter notes at the top for? You're in Studio View. The quarter notes are the Tempo Tap Staff. It's kinda like a conductor tack in a sequencer. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 7:28 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Re: What are the quarter notes at the top for? Yes, I have looked at the documentation. I have Finale 2006. Those weren't in previous versions that I had. But I don't understand what those quarter notes at the top of the form are supposed to do for me. They correspond to the beats in the measure, obviously. Or you can refer me to the proper place where I can look it up. So far, I haven't found it. Pardon my ignorance - Thanks; Bill S. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: page setup in file menu
Bob Florence wrote: Hi All; This is pretty basic stuff. When I do a score for parts, I set the page setup for 9 1/2 x 12 1/2. When my parts are extracted, they are 8 1/2 x 11. Do I have to change each part or am I missing something? Thanks for your many years of help. Bob Florence Mac/Finale 2006c I sent the above yesterday. So far, there have been no replies. Bob F. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: [OT] gril [was: Nucular]
dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, historically the word girl used to be gril in old-English, but over years usage changed to the easier to say modern order of the letters. Are you sure it was that way round? Neither Chambers nor the full Oxford English Dictionary gave such a derivation, nor was it one of about nine variant spellings in the Oxford. -- Ken Moore ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: [OT] gril [was: Nucular]
Now up. From: Ken Moore Sent: Thu 19-Oct-06 12:10 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] Re: [OT] gril [was: Nucular] dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, historically the word girl used to be gril in old-English, but over years usage changed to the easier to say modern order of the letters. Are you sure it was that way round? Neither Chambers nor the full Oxford English Dictionary gave such a derivation, nor was it one of about nine variant spellings in the Oxford. -- Ken Moore ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: fonts for jazz - comparison?
Jazz font is just too thick for me, and the articulations aren't as clear as Bill's Articulations font used with Maestro. If you compare them side by side, the clarity and professional look of using Maestro with Bill's Articulations font (plus all the other great fonts he has in his package, like Rehearsal and Enclosure) will win you over (well, it won me over). http://finaletips.nu/ has some leads on other fonts (look under the downloads section at the Font Annotations), such as AshMusic, Swing, and GoldenAge. You can even, supposedly, use Sibelius's jazz font in Finale, but that is a really goofy looking font in my opinion. shirling neueweise wrote: i'm possibly going to be involved in a project where the choice of jazz fonts or not won't be up to me. i haven't used jazz fonts at all, and the last time i compared any of them was around 5 years ago. i remember seeing 3 or 4 designed by someone whose name i can't remember (les somebody?) that i found quite elegant. what don't you guys like about Jazz (comes with finale)? is there a list of available jazz fonts somewhere? From: Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd second this. Bill's articulations font (plus all his other great fonts, like rehearsal and enclosure) and Maestro font make for clear, professional looking charts. Chuck Israels wrote: I use Maestro combined with Bill Duncan's chord font (that I find to be beautiful, clear, and relatively compact in relation to its readability) and a few of his other special fonts for rehearsal letters and articulations. While there are some who like the Finale Jazz font, I find it unpleasant (I'm speaking in my courteous web ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] gril [was: Nucular]
Round our way we still say brid instead of bird. Cheers, Larwence ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: fonts for jazz - comparison?
Dear Jef, I used to have something called Ash font that Iperferred to Rich Sigler's fonts, but i can't find it now, and a quick Google search did not turn it up. My response to the look of the Jazz font agrees with Christopher's, though I may feel more strongly about it than he. I just find it ugly - personal opinion, of course. Of all the symbols in the font, the quarter and eight rests are the most distracting to me. The quarter rests look like my students' incompetent attempts to draw them in their hand written assignments - like badly written 3s, and I admit to an irrational emotional reaction to that. I have had experience with beautifully done hand copying in New York, and I developed a deep appreciation for the elegance and legibility of a well copied part or score. Arnold Arnstein (sp?) used to do work for many well know composers, and Bill Rowen did fine work for the National Jazz Ensemble. Finale's jazz font simply looks to me like a bad hand copying job, and the idea of a machine attempting to imitate hand work is just silly. All the beautiful nuances and inconsistencies, purposeful and accidental, are missing, so everything looks false to my eye, and I find that distracting in some subliminal way. I also disagree with Christopher's assessment of the way musicians play parts written in Engraver or Maestro fonts. I manage to read Shakespeare written in modern typeface, and if my understanding of the meaning of a passage depended on seeing it as it would have been written in Elizabethan Englandwell, you get the point. I think clarity is more important than jazzy style - spacing, proportion, layout, all the things we work on improving all the time. If you are required to do this in a jazz font, I'd try to find the Ash Font to at least take a look. Good luck, Chuck On Oct 19, 2006, at 4:47 AM, shirling neueweise wrote: i'm possibly going to be involved in a project where the choice of jazz fonts or not won't be up to me. i haven't used jazz fonts at all, and the last time i compared any of them was around 5 years ago. i remember seeing 3 or 4 designed by someone whose name i can't remember (les somebody?) that i found quite elegant. what don't you guys like about Jazz (comes with finale)? is there a list of available jazz fonts somewhere? From: Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'd second this. Bill's articulations font (plus all his other great fonts, like rehearsal and enclosure) and Maestro font make for clear, professional looking charts. Chuck Israels wrote: I use Maestro combined with Bill Duncan's chord font (that I find to be beautiful, clear, and relatively compact in relation to its readability) and a few of his other special fonts for rehearsal letters and articulations. While there are some who like the Finale Jazz font, I find it unpleasant (I'm speaking in my courteous web -- shirling neueweise ... new music publishers mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :.../ http://newmusicnotation.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: page setup in file menu
Dear Bob, I wasn't sure I got what was causing this problem, so I didn't answer. On further reflection, there's a menu for Page Format - Score, and another one for Parts (under Document Options, I think). Once that's done correctly, you should have no further problems except for the printer page set up adjustment when you print different size pages. I'll be home most of the day, if you need to call for more help. Chuck On Oct 19, 2006, at 8:41 AM, Bob Florence wrote: Bob Florence wrote: Hi All; This is pretty basic stuff. When I do a score for parts, I set the page setup for 9 1/2 x 12 1/2. When my parts are extracted, they are 8 1/2 x 11. Do I have to change each part or am I missing something? Thanks for your many years of help. Bob Florence Mac/Finale 2006c I sent the above yesterday. So far, there have been no replies. Bob F. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] appearance issues
I've got 2 unrelated appearance problems with Finale 2007 (Mac) and I was wondering if anyone else has run into these. 1) In Speedy Tool, sometimes the frame contents look smudgy until you put in a new note or rest. 2) When you change time signatures and have to rebar, or when you push extra notes into the next measure via the Speedy tool, any notated seconds have the noteheads moved to the same side of the stem causing a visual mess. (It's a PITA to fix.) -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] gril [was: Nucular]
Ken Moore wrote: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, historically the word girl used to be gril in old-English, but over years usage changed to the easier to say modern order of the letters. Are you sure it was that way round? Neither Chambers nor the full Oxford English Dictionary gave such a derivation, nor was it one of about nine variant spellings in the Oxford. Well that's what I recall my History of the English Language teacher told us. Looking in the O.E.D. there is the potential origin in the word gyril, so maybe that's what I'm recalling (through the dimness of 35 years), where there would have been two syllables, but being easier to pronounce, things got changed around. In any event, it didn't begin as a one syllable word that rolls off the tongue as it does now. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] appearance issues
Randolph Peters wrote: I've got 2 unrelated appearance problems with Finale 2007 (Mac) and I was wondering if anyone else has run into these. 1) In Speedy Tool, sometimes the frame contents look smudgy until you put in a new note or rest. 2) When you change time signatures and have to rebar, or when you push extra notes into the next measure via the Speedy tool, any notated seconds have the noteheads moved to the same side of the stem causing a visual mess. (It's a PITA to fix.) I realize you specify Mac, but I thought I'd check these out on my Windows machine and neither of these is an issue on my computer. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Nucular football?
But the nucular pronunciation gets the letters in the wrong order, while the on-velope is simply a holdover pronunciation from its French origins (I would presume). There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. Brett Favre? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
Andrew Levin wrote: But the nucular pronunciation gets the letters in the wrong order, while the on-velope is simply a holdover pronunciation from its French origins (I would presume). There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. Brett Favre? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Or Wednesday -- pronounced by most people as wendsday. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David W. Fenton Sent: 19 October 2006 05:32 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn] On 18 Oct 2006 at 19:59, Mark D Lew wrote: For counter-example, the word envelope is pronounced like on-velope by roughly the same percentage of Americans who say nucular, but you rarely hear complaints about it. But the nucular pronunciation gets the letters in the wrong order, while the on-velope is simply a holdover pronunciation from its French origins (I would presume). There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. -- David W. Fenton None? I could reel off plenty for you if you want. Or are you dismissing all regional variations out-of-hand? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
At 10/19/2006 03:12 PM, Andrew Levin wrote: But the nucular pronunciation gets the letters in the wrong order, while the on-velope is simply a holdover pronunciation from its French origins (I would presume). There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. Brett Favre? He doesn't know how to pronounce his own name. It's Fa-vre, a French name. Lots of athletes mispronounce their names to make it look like they don't have foreign names. They have enough clout to make announcers say their names the way they want. How about Bow-cher when it's really Bou-chez. (Boucher). Phil Daley AutoDesk http://www.conknet.com/~p_daley ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
At 3:23 PM -0400 10/19/06, dhbailey wrote: Or Wednesday -- pronounced by most people as wendsday. I usually hear it withough the first d - Wensday - or day of the big bump on the head. Carlberg ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
On Oct 19, 2006, at 3:12 PM, Andrew Levin wrote: There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. Brett Favre? Don't know him, nor how he pronounces his name. Around here it would be said Brett Fahv(reh). But I know Americans pronounce Notre Dame as noter dayme, so anything is possible. But still in a French-derived mode, how about metre, centre and all those words which are in the Oxford? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
On Oct 18, 2006, at 3:05 PM, Stu McIntire wrote: do people who say nucular also say nuculus? Nuculotide? Enuculated? Nuculons? Nuculic acids? No, not in my considerable experience in the South, because there isn't a tradition of pronouncing those words in a comparable way... Thanks very much for your serious answer to what was, for my part, a serious question. Among those I've heard say nucular was Hubert Humphrey. The usage is obviously acceptable, but nevertheless it fits, I think, into the class of regional/local/ethnic terms and usages that are best not flaunted before outsiders of brief acquaintance. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
Ah, that would explain the lahngeray :) Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: A conscious disconnection with French-Canadian culture some 200 years ago. Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
How would you pronouce Vincent van Gogh? Or lingerie? Like lingerie or lahngeray? Christopher Smith wrote: Don't know him, nor how he pronounces his name. Around here it would be said Brett Fahv(reh). But I know Americans pronounce Notre Dame as noter dayme, so anything is possible. But still in a French-derived mode, how about metre, centre and all those words which are in the Oxford? Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
On Oct 18, 2006, at 10:59 PM, Mark D Lew wrote: the word envelope is pronounced like on-velope by roughly the same percentage of Americans who say nucular, but you rarely hear complaints about it. That could be because the on-velope sayers are mostly in the Northeast, which has traditionally been the socially dominant region. A lot of us were taught that a [vaze] costs less than $20.00, while a [vahz] costs more. Come to think of it, I grew up saying [onvelope] because my parents were from NYC, but lost it as I became more cosmopolitan, along with such Marylandisms as melk, pellow, heelicopter... Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: lyrics spacing (was Re: [Finale] Re: score vs. finale)
At 12:21 AM -0700 10/19/06, Mark D Lew wrote: On Oct 18, 2006, at 7:18 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Convey to them the fun of being able to look critically at the editor's choices, and teach them how much more rewarding it is to make your own decisions. They'll be better musicians for it. I've known many singers who take an interest in making their own artistic decisions. I'm not sure that's quite the same as wanting to know who the editor of a work is. You can look at three or four editions of a song and decide which ones you like better without any reference to who made the choices or how authentic they are. Editors have reputations, just as composers do. It's those reputations that give you valuable information before you even open to the first page of music. THEN you can judge the editions first hand. The reputation thing may mean more for string music editions than for vocal editions. A particular editor will very often be a famous concert artist, and part of what you're buying is the bowings, phrasing, and maybe even fingerings he or she uses. Now that I think of it, very few string players are taught to make their own decisions on phrasing, bowings and fingerings, although orchestra players make them all the time on the fly. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Re: [OT] Nucular [was:Finale eggcorn]
The usage is obviously acceptable, but nevertheless it fits, I think, into the class of regional/local/ethnic terms and usages that are best not flaunted before outsiders of brief acquaintance. Agreed; on the order of fixin', as in we were fixin' to go inside when the hounds started barking at a truck turning in the drive. First dibs on Outsiders of Brief Acquaintance as a book or album title if opportunity ever presents itself. Confession: I didn't stop using that pronunciation until I was in college when, still in the South, my girlfriend/future wife/future ex-wife, who as a child deliberately expunged her southern accent, successfully shamed me to adopt the more universal pronunciation. Stu ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: lyrics spacing (was Re: [Finale] Re: score vs. finale)
At 9:42 AM +0200 10/19/06, dc wrote: Mark D Lew écrit: I can tell you from my years as a some-time vocal coach and all-around wonk, when you start to talk to singers about sources and editions and stuff like that, 90% of them get a glazed-over look in their eyes and then reply with something like, Yeah, ok, whatever. So what are you saying? should I slur it or not? I also spend quite a bit of time accompanying and coaching singers, and preparing editions for them. Though most of them indeed aren't very sensitive to these issues, there are many who do care, especially in the field of early music. I also feel the others can and should be educated! And the editions such as the Caccini not only don't educate them, but give them a completely false idea of what Caccini wrote. Many singers are convinced that he wrote the piano part that is beneath the words, and that all the dynamics, accents, hairpins, etc., are by the composer, which isn't the case. Not only are there many things added that are not by Caccini, but the few things he did write are not all there (the continuo figurings). While this is certainly true, I must point out that Caccini's (and Monteverdi's) generation was very stingy with figures, using them only where they felt they were absolutely necessary. I'm not even sure that Bach himself used the kind of nit-picky figures, trying to capture every single passing note or passing chord, that modern editors seem to like. The beginning books I've seen for realizing figured bass assume that you have both the melody and the bass in front of you, and that right there gives you at least 85% of the information you need. John -- John Susie Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Re: [OT] gril [was: Nucular]
Whatever may have happened to girl, the same flipping of letters definitely happened with bird, originally brid. The oldest known secular song in English is Brid one Brere, i.e. Bird on Briar. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ On Oct 19, 2006, at 2:42 PM, dhbailey wrote: Ken Moore wrote: dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, historically the word girl used to be gril in old-English, but over years usage changed to the easier to say modern order of the letters. Are you sure it was that way round? Neither Chambers nor the full Oxford English Dictionary gave such a derivation, nor was it one of about nine variant spellings in the Oxford. Well that's what I recall my History of the English Language teacher told us. Looking in the O.E.D. there is the potential origin in the word gyril, so maybe that's what I'm recalling (through the dimness of 35 years), where there would have been two syllables, but being easier to pronounce, things got changed around. In any event, it didn't begin as a one syllable word that rolls off the tongue as it does now. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
Phil Daley wrote: At 10/19/2006 03:12 PM, Andrew Levin wrote: But the nucular pronunciation gets the letters in the wrong order, while the on-velope is simply a holdover pronunciation from its French origins (I would presume). There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. Brett Favre? He doesn't know how to pronounce his own name. It's Fa-vre, a French name. Lots of athletes mispronounce their names to make it look like they don't have foreign names. They have enough clout to make announcers say their names the way they want. How about Bow-cher when it's really Bou-chez. (Boucher). Or maybe they're just trying to point out that they're not foreigners and that it's alright to pronounce their names with American pronunciation instead of pseudo-foreign pronunciation. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Transpositions
On Oct 18, 2006, at 6:29 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: After analyzing Bartok's String Quartet work and his Concerto for Orchestra, I have to believe that if he didn't play any string instruments, he had some bloody good help in writing it. This and similar comments mystifying the process of idiomatic string writing are as common as they are offputting and just plain wrong. I notice, for example, that none of the contributors to this thread have suggested that one must be able to play a wind instrument in order to write properly for wind quintet or band. Or that one must have hands-on experience in order to write for mallet instruments. In fact, nothing more is needed to write for the violin family than for any other instruments, and that is 1) familiarization with the specific technical capabilities and limitations of each instrument and 2) close study of appropriate scores. The original poster of this topic, who found string writing to be overwhelmingly complicated, was probably looking at one of the traditional discussions of the topic that provide long lists of multiple stops, harmonics, and so on without conveying the principles behind these. My _Handbook of Instrumentation_ uses a more logical approach and covers every aspect of the violin family in 17 pages (351-367). If I have left anything out, I would very much like to hear about it. I do not play any stringed instrument. I was required to write a string quartet as part of my doctoral generals. It is full of quartertones, unconventional multiple-stops, and odd harmonics. It has been performed by a professional quartet, who found nothing unidiomatic about it and mastered it without difficulty in two rehearsals. It sounded exactly as I intended, and was well received. QED Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
Andrew Levin quoted: But the nucular pronunciation gets the letters in the wrong order, while the on-velope is simply a holdover pronunciation from its French origins (I would presume). There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. Wh in what, where, which, white, whe, and why: pronounced hwat, hwere, hwich, hwite, hwen, and hwy respectively. ns ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
On Oct 19, 2006, at 3:53 PM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz wrote: In Vermont, our Calais is callous, Barre is barry, and Montpelier is muntpilyur. A conscious disconnection with French-Canadian culture some 200 years ago. Same thing in the Midwest: Fond du Lac = [fond a lack]; Prairie du Chien = [prary duh cheen]; Beloit = [buhlolyt]. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
On Oct 19, 2006, at 4:10 PM, Barbara Touburg wrote: How would you pronouce Vincent van Gogh? Or lingerie? Like lingerie or lahngeray? I think we Canadians mostly go with the American tradition of van go, unless there is an art connoisseur in the group. Sorry. But we use the Quebec French pronounciation of lingerie, despite the dropped accent, rather than the mispronounced lahngeray. More like lihn-jhay-ree, reflecting our pinched nasal sounds more so than Continental French. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
On Oct 19, 2006, at 5:09 PM, dhbailey wrote: Phil Daley wrote: Lots of athletes mispronounce their names to make it look like they don't have foreign names. They have enough clout to make announcers say their names the way they want. How about Bow-cher when it's really Bou-chez. (Boucher). Or maybe they're just trying to point out that they're not foreigners and that it's alright to pronounce their names with American pronunciation instead of pseudo-foreign pronunciation. I hereby officially take offence on behalf of the several millions Americans using the original pronunciations of their names, in any language. However, being Canadian, I can shrug and go have supper without thinking about it any more. 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] Transpositions
I don't find the idea that he was in some 'culture of string writing' convincing in the slightest. A familiarity with the repertoie doesn't necessarily nurture an ability to write well for strings - somebody else has mentioned Prokofiev already as just one example ;) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Wolf Sent: 19 October 2006 13:21 To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] Transpositions Bartók came from a class and an environment in which playing violin, piano, and perhaps cello were altogether ordinary skills, and music was practically defined by the Austro-Germanic repertoire. As a pianist, he became familiar with the Beethoven violin sonatas in his late childhood or early teens. I'd say that his knowledge of the violin and its repertoire, whether or not he ever touched the thing, was intimate. DJW On 19.10.2006 Owain Sutton wrote: Offhand, I'm pretty sure that Shostakovich and Bartok didn't play any string instruments. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re(2): [Finale] Nucular football?
Not to egg you on, but, Any chance this could move off the list? The momentum is amazing! **Leigh On Thu, Oct 19, 2006, Christopher Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 19, 2006, at 5:09 PM, dhbailey wrote: Phil Daley wrote: Lots of athletes mispronounce their names to make it look like they don't have foreign names. They have enough clout to make announcers say their names the way they want. How about Bow-cher when it's really Bou-chez. (Boucher). Or maybe they're just trying to point out that they're not foreigners and that it's alright to pronounce their names with American pronunciation instead of pseudo-foreign pronunciation. I hereby officially take offence on behalf of the several millions Americans using the original pronunciations of their names, in any language. However, being Canadian, I can shrug and go have supper without thinking about it any more. 8-) Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Nucular football?
On 19 Oct 2006 at 15:12, Andrew Levin wrote: [quoting me, unattributed:] But the nucular pronunciation gets the letters in the wrong order, while the on-velope is simply a holdover pronunciation from its French origins (I would presume). There are no English pronunciation rules that I know of that treat the reversal of the letter sounds as correct in any case. Brett Favre? Another French-derived pronunciation, like theatre. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: Re(2): [Finale] Nucular football?
Not to egg you on, but, Any chance this could move off the list? The momentum is amazing! I recommend the newsgroups: alt.english.usage and alt.usage.english RY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
