Re: [Finale] Garritan on AMD
Chris Bell wrote: On Aug 10, 2008, at 9:57 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: In fact, I think anyone would be hard-pressed to complain about the instrument selection for JABB -- it is amazingly comprehensive. They actually have MORE instruments than they list on the product page: . . . . I really don't see how anyone could have serious issues with that selection of instruments. I for one would love to have a kitchen sink sample as well. / Cb Bass or treble? With or without the "disposal" mute? cd ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] French terminology
We (Louisville Orchestra) did a concert with Julie Andrews a few weeks ago (her first singing in ten years) and she most certainly uses "Do." Hey! Where was the rim-shot? RBH Christopher Smith wrote: In Québec "trompette en do" is standard, but I imagine Darcy was looking for the Continental expression. Unfortunately, I can't speak for the terminology on the east side of the Atlantic. I can't even be certain of British English, as compared to Canadian usage! To judge from the Conservatoire de Paris scores I see, trompette en ut is widespread, but I don't know if they are just a holdover, as "ut" in normal musical lingo is not used except in historical contexts. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] French terminology
Hi Andrew, I would have thought lowercase too, but I've run into a fair number of French scores that capitalize the pitch names for transposing instruments -- the Dover reprint of the Durand & Cie _Daphnis et Chloé_, for example. Are instances like this just outliers? - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 10 Aug 2008, at 5:28 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: (lower case, please!) ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] French terminology
On Aug 10, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Andrew Stiller wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: Hello, I'm engraving a new opera for a French composer and I'm wording about a specific piece of terminology -- "Trompette en Ut" or "Trompette en Do"? I have a vague feeling "Trompette en Ut" is archaic, but I don't have any recent French orchestral scores to check against. Trompette en ut (lower case, please!) is not at all archaic (see, among others, Messiaen: _Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum_). In fact, I'm not at all sure that "trompette en do" is even permissible. "Tr. *in* do", which has been cited in this thread, is not French at all but Italian. In Québec "trompette en do" is standard, but I imagine Darcy was looking for the Continental expression. Unfortunately, I can't speak for the terminology on the east side of the Atlantic. I can't even be certain of British English, as compared to Canadian usage! To judge from the Conservatoire de Paris scores I see, trompette en ut is widespread, but I don't know if they are just a holdover, as "ut" in normal musical lingo is not used except in historical contexts. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan instrument range
Hi Craig, 1) See Chris Smith's comments RE: why jazz players eschew the F attachment. There are several high-profile jazz players who play large- bore instruments -- none of them use F attachments. 2) I already agreed with you regarding the GPO orchestral t.tbn. samples. Hell, I agree with you that it would be nice if some of the JABB samples had F-trigger ranges as well. I was just explaining why this wasn't the case -- the players they sampled for JABB were almost certainly all using straight horns, which is overwhelmingly the norm for jazz trombonists. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 10 Aug 2008, at 4:34 PM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: Two things: 1) You are mixing bore size with instrument length. 95+% of instruments with the F attachment use a large symphonic bore. It is the bore size, and not the presence of an F attachment, that causes NYC jazz players to bring the straight horns. Most of them probably do NOT own a "jazz-bore" sized trombone that has an F attachment. And if they did, they might be reluctant to bring it out, not because it is inappropriate, but because of the various biases and misunderstandings among the non-trombonists in the house. "He couldn't be a real jazz player. He's got an F attachment." 2) The sounds included with Finale are NOT designated as "jazz" trombones at all. In fact, they are designated as "Orch trombone 1/2/3" And that being the case, a cutoff at low-E is just plain ignorant. There are loads of orchestral scores that assume the second trombonist can play below the low E, and it would be a very uncommon scene for any professional 2nd trombonist to not be playing with an F attachment. It happens, but only when the section is "going small" to try to recreate a period sound. In these cases, the Principal will often play on alto trombone and the bass trombonist might play on a "547" bore trombone (smaller than a normal bass trombone.) It is a moot point for me. I've already put out the bucks to buy the the full JABB set, so the postmen will put me out of my misery in a couple of days. :) Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi John, It's not that NYC players don't own F-trigger horns or don't know how to use them. It's that they don't bring them to jazz gigs (including bigband) where they might be called on to play a solo. Their main solo horn is almost always a straight tenor trombone. The F-trigger horn is a backup instrument for those situations where they need one. It's definitely not a generational thing -- jazz trombone soloists of all ages overwhelmingly prefer the straight horn. As I have said previously, Garritan JABB has a sampled bass trombone in addition to the five tenor trombones. Obviously they would not put out a big band set without including bass trombone. That ball was not dropped, I assure you. In fact, I think anyone would be hard-pressed to complain about the instrument selection for JABB -- it is amazingly comprehensive. They actually have MORE instruments than they list on the product page: http://www.garritan.com/jazz.html Saxophones: Sopranino saxophone Mezzo Soprano sax 2 Soprano saxophones (1 straight, 1 curved) 3 Alto saxophones 2 C Melody saxophones 4 Tenor saxophoness 2 Baritone saxophones 2 Bass saxophones 2 Contrabass saxophones 1 Subcontrabass saxophone (Tubax) Woodwind doubles: Piccolo 3 Flutes Alto Flute 3 Bb Clarinets Bass Clarinet Trumpets: 5 Bb Trumpets (all with extended range, one with extreme range) [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] 1 Plunger trumpet 5 Flugelhorns Trombones: 5 Tenor Trombones [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] Bass Trombone [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] 1 Plunger trombone Tuba Keyboards: Steinway B grand piano Rhodes piano Accordion Guitars: 2 Electric guitars Acoustic guitar Basses: 2 Upright acoustic basses (plus one w/arco samples) 2 Fretless electric basses 2 Fretted electric basses Drum Kits Classic Jazz kits Fusion Kit Brush kit Percussion: Vibraphone (hard and soft mallets) Wide variety of percussion including Latin percussion, bongos, congas, timbales, wood blocks, bells, whistles, etc. I really don't see how anyone could have serious issues with that selection of instruments. Yes, it would be nice if one or two of the five tenor trombones had F-trigger range notes (though this could easily be added in an update). But they included a lot more instruments than they truly needed to for this library. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 10 Aug 2008, at 12:18 PM, John Howell wrote: At 7:41 AM -0400 8/10/08, dhbailey wrote: Sure, most of the top-tier jazz trombone players may not use F- attachments when on jazz gigs (unless they're on 4th bone parts) but I'm fairly positive that all of them would own and feel comfortable playing F-attachm
Re: [Finale] French terminology
Darcy James Argue wrote: Hello, I'm engraving a new opera for a French composer and I'm wording about a specific piece of terminology -- "Trompette en Ut" or "Trompette en Do"? I have a vague feeling "Trompette en Ut" is archaic, but I don't have any recent French orchestral scores to check against. Trompette en ut (lower case, please!) is not at all archaic (see, among others, Messiaen: _Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum_). In fact, I'm not at all sure that "trompette en do" is even permissible. "Tr. *in* do", which has been cited in this thread, is not French at all but Italian. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://www.kallistimusic.com/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Garritan instrument range
Two things: 1) You are mixing bore size with instrument length. 95+% of instruments with the F attachment use a large symphonic bore. It is the bore size, and not the presence of an F attachment, that causes NYC jazz players to bring the straight horns. Most of them probably do NOT own a "jazz-bore" sized trombone that has an F attachment. And if they did, they might be reluctant to bring it out, not because it is inappropriate, but because of the various biases and misunderstandings among the non-trombonists in the house. "He couldn't be a real jazz player. He's got an F attachment." 2) The sounds included with Finale are NOT designated as "jazz" trombones at all. In fact, they are designated as "Orch trombone 1/2/3" And that being the case, a cutoff at low-E is just plain ignorant. There are loads of orchestral scores that assume the second trombonist can play below the low E, and it would be a very uncommon scene for any professional 2nd trombonist to not be playing with an F attachment. It happens, but only when the section is "going small" to try to recreate a period sound. In these cases, the Principal will often play on alto trombone and the bass trombonist might play on a "547" bore trombone (smaller than a normal bass trombone.) It is a moot point for me. I've already put out the bucks to buy the the full JABB set, so the postmen will put me out of my misery in a couple of days. :) Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi John, It's not that NYC players don't own F-trigger horns or don't know how to use them. It's that they don't bring them to jazz gigs (including bigband) where they might be called on to play a solo. Their main solo horn is almost always a straight tenor trombone. The F-trigger horn is a backup instrument for those situations where they need one. It's definitely not a generational thing -- jazz trombone soloists of all ages overwhelmingly prefer the straight horn. As I have said previously, Garritan JABB has a sampled bass trombone in addition to the five tenor trombones. Obviously they would not put out a big band set without including bass trombone. That ball was not dropped, I assure you. In fact, I think anyone would be hard-pressed to complain about the instrument selection for JABB -- it is amazingly comprehensive. They actually have MORE instruments than they list on the product page: http://www.garritan.com/jazz.html Saxophones: Sopranino saxophone Mezzo Soprano sax 2 Soprano saxophones (1 straight, 1 curved) 3 Alto saxophones 2 C Melody saxophones 4 Tenor saxophoness 2 Baritone saxophones 2 Bass saxophones 2 Contrabass saxophones 1 Subcontrabass saxophone (Tubax) Woodwind doubles: Piccolo 3 Flutes Alto Flute 3 Bb Clarinets Bass Clarinet Trumpets: 5 Bb Trumpets (all with extended range, one with extreme range) [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] 1 Plunger trumpet 5 Flugelhorns Trombones: 5 Tenor Trombones [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] Bass Trombone [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] 1 Plunger trombone Tuba Keyboards: Steinway B grand piano Rhodes piano Accordion Guitars: 2 Electric guitars Acoustic guitar Basses: 2 Upright acoustic basses (plus one w/arco samples) 2 Fretless electric basses 2 Fretted electric basses Drum Kits Classic Jazz kits Fusion Kit Brush kit Percussion: Vibraphone (hard and soft mallets) Wide variety of percussion including Latin percussion, bongos, congas, timbales, wood blocks, bells, whistles, etc. I really don't see how anyone could have serious issues with that selection of instruments. Yes, it would be nice if one or two of the five tenor trombones had F-trigger range notes (though this could easily be added in an update). But they included a lot more instruments than they truly needed to for this library. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 10 Aug 2008, at 12:18 PM, John Howell wrote: At 7:41 AM -0400 8/10/08, dhbailey wrote: Sure, most of the top-tier jazz trombone players may not use F-attachments when on jazz gigs (unless they're on 4th bone parts) but I'm fairly positive that all of them would own and feel comfortable playing F-attachment horns for those gigs when they're required to have that extended range, and they could have been sampled on those instruments. Or Garritan could have done some programming magic and figured out how to stretch the range. Soundfonts can do it. We're a small Music Department with no more than around 140 majors, but our studio teachers are first rate. We don't presently have a specific jazz major (although we did, and it was becoming very popular for both instrumentalists and vocalists before the first of several drastic budget cuts from the state), and we don't have specific jazz studio teachers (except for trumpet, since a dual-threat teacher was specifically advertised for). That said, however, I can GUA
Re: [Finale] Garritan on AMD
On Aug 10, 2008, at 9:57 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: In fact, I think anyone would be hard-pressed to complain about the instrument selection for JABB -- it is amazingly comprehensive. They actually have MORE instruments than they list on the product page: . . . . I really don't see how anyone could have serious issues with that selection of instruments. I for one would love to have a kitchen sink sample as well. / Cb ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan trombone range
On Aug 10, 2008, at 10:21 AM, Craig Parmerlee wrote: The avoidance of the trigger is mostly about tradition more than anything else, and also that the number of instrument choices is limited. That's not strictly true. The addition of an F trigger affects the way the horn blows, and most agree that the effect is negative, so they avoid it for that reason. The ones who choose a F trigger do so knowing what the tradeoff is. If you doubt this, try one of the Bach 42s that have a removable trigger section. The straight horn is noticeably freer-blowing, even to a guy like me who has played trigger horns for his entire career and is used to it. I also noticed the effect is more pronounced in the higher register, so someone who doesn't need the extra few low notes or the easier agility in the low register is more likely to choose a straight horn, like a jazz or lead player. I know many bass trombonists who prefer "stacked" to "in-line" because the response of the instrument when the F key is not pressed is superior (only one valve to go through.) Some guys are even playing straight BASS trombones (yes, in Bb!) when the repertoire permits! Probably 95% of the trigger trombones in existence are "large bore symphonic tenors", which really shouldn't be used in a big band. Hmm. Don't tell that to Slide Hampton, Robin Eubanks, the late Jimmy Knepper, or several local trombone gods here, who use their big horns all the time, even on the lead chair in a big band. It's hard work, but there is no real reason not to use the instrument that you are most comfortable with. There is nothing about the F attachment that inhibits jazz soloing in any way. Some would disagree (see my earlier paragraph.) But the real issue is whether the notes below E should have been included in a definitive sample set, and the answer is of course yes! Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan on AMD
Hi John, It's not that NYC players don't own F-trigger horns or don't know how to use them. It's that they don't bring them to jazz gigs (including bigband) where they might be called on to play a solo. Their main solo horn is almost always a straight tenor trombone. The F-trigger horn is a backup instrument for those situations where they need one. It's definitely not a generational thing -- jazz trombone soloists of all ages overwhelmingly prefer the straight horn. As I have said previously, Garritan JABB has a sampled bass trombone in addition to the five tenor trombones. Obviously they would not put out a big band set without including bass trombone. That ball was not dropped, I assure you. In fact, I think anyone would be hard-pressed to complain about the instrument selection for JABB -- it is amazingly comprehensive. They actually have MORE instruments than they list on the product page: http://www.garritan.com/jazz.html Saxophones: Sopranino saxophone Mezzo Soprano sax 2 Soprano saxophones (1 straight, 1 curved) 3 Alto saxophones 2 C Melody saxophones 4 Tenor saxophoness 2 Baritone saxophones 2 Bass saxophones 2 Contrabass saxophones 1 Subcontrabass saxophone (Tubax) Woodwind doubles: Piccolo 3 Flutes Alto Flute 3 Bb Clarinets Bass Clarinet Trumpets: 5 Bb Trumpets (all with extended range, one with extreme range) [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] 1 Plunger trumpet 5 Flugelhorns Trombones: 5 Tenor Trombones [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] Bass Trombone [open, straight mute, cup mute, Harmon mute, bucket mute] 1 Plunger trombone Tuba Keyboards: Steinway B grand piano Rhodes piano Accordion Guitars: 2 Electric guitars Acoustic guitar Basses: 2 Upright acoustic basses (plus one w/arco samples) 2 Fretless electric basses 2 Fretted electric basses Drum Kits Classic Jazz kits Fusion Kit Brush kit Percussion: Vibraphone (hard and soft mallets) Wide variety of percussion including Latin percussion, bongos, congas, timbales, wood blocks, bells, whistles, etc. I really don't see how anyone could have serious issues with that selection of instruments. Yes, it would be nice if one or two of the five tenor trombones had F-trigger range notes (though this could easily be added in an update). But they included a lot more instruments than they truly needed to for this library. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 10 Aug 2008, at 12:18 PM, John Howell wrote: At 7:41 AM -0400 8/10/08, dhbailey wrote: Sure, most of the top-tier jazz trombone players may not use F- attachments when on jazz gigs (unless they're on 4th bone parts) but I'm fairly positive that all of them would own and feel comfortable playing F-attachment horns for those gigs when they're required to have that extended range, and they could have been sampled on those instruments. Or Garritan could have done some programming magic and figured out how to stretch the range. Soundfonts can do it. We're a small Music Department with no more than around 140 majors, but our studio teachers are first rate. We don't presently have a specific jazz major (although we did, and it was becoming very popular for both instrumentalists and vocalists before the first of several drastic budget cuts from the state), and we don't have specific jazz studio teachers (except for trumpet, since a dual- threat teacher was specifically advertised for). That said, however, I can GUARANTEE that any and every serious trombone major has an F-attachment instrument and is taught how to use it. And that includes in our two big bands. As I commented earlier, I'm dealing with a different generation than Darcy is, but this is the generation that's going to take over in due course. Considering the use of jazz bass trombone itself, going back to George Roberts and Kenton, I would say that yes, Garitan dropped the ball on this, or at least acted on questionable advice that may not survive the generation gap. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan on AMD
At 7:41 AM -0400 8/10/08, dhbailey wrote: Sure, most of the top-tier jazz trombone players may not use F-attachments when on jazz gigs (unless they're on 4th bone parts) but I'm fairly positive that all of them would own and feel comfortable playing F-attachment horns for those gigs when they're required to have that extended range, and they could have been sampled on those instruments. Or Garritan could have done some programming magic and figured out how to stretch the range. Soundfonts can do it. We're a small Music Department with no more than around 140 majors, but our studio teachers are first rate. We don't presently have a specific jazz major (although we did, and it was becoming very popular for both instrumentalists and vocalists before the first of several drastic budget cuts from the state), and we don't have specific jazz studio teachers (except for trumpet, since a dual-threat teacher was specifically advertised for). That said, however, I can GUARANTEE that any and every serious trombone major has an F-attachment instrument and is taught how to use it. And that includes in our two big bands. As I commented earlier, I'm dealing with a different generation than Darcy is, but this is the generation that's going to take over in due course. Considering the use of jazz bass trombone itself, going back to George Roberts and Kenton, I would say that yes, Garitan dropped the ball on this, or at least acted on questionable advice that may not survive the generation gap. John -- John R. Howell, Assoc. Prof. of Music Virginia Tech Department of Music College of Liberal Arts & Human Sciences Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A. 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html "We never play anything the same way once." Shelly Manne's definition of jazz musicians. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Unusual Notation: Anyone know how to do this with Finale?
From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:51:30 -0400 (EDT) To: Subject: Re: [Finale] Unusual Notation: Anyone know how to do this with Finale? > Don't know about anybody else, but it's too small for me to see (even the > click-to-enlarge version). How about a regular webpage with a big, clear > image? This group never met a notation it couldn't do... if we can see it. There should be a little arrow down at the bottom of the screen which will allow you to download the .jpg to your computer. Then you can open it up full size. I know it's a pain and frankly I'm not too thrilled with Apple's new "Mobile Me" web services suite. I wish they'd just left things the way they were or had worked out the bugs before "transitioning" everyone whether they like it or not. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Unusual Notation: Anyone know how to do this with Finale?
From: Darcy James Argue <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 17:54:48 -0400 To: Subject: Re: [Finale] Unusual Notation: Anyone know how to do this with Finale? > I have no idea how much of that -- if any -- is possible in Finale > Allegro. I'm not sure it is, either. Just thought I'd ask. In any event, I've found a pretty decent work-around. Not exactly the same notation as the original but the intent is clear: http://homepage.mac.com/btr1701/FileSharing15.html > If you are interested in this kind of notation, you should > really upgrade to the full version of Finale. I've been considering it. Up till now, I've never run into anything that I wanted to do that was beyond Allegro's abilities. If I do decide to upgrade, how does the process work? Is Finale a separate application or does the updater just change the Allegro app by adding the extra coding/functionality? Is there a significant difference between the two-- can someone who is reasonably proficient with Allegro just jump right into using Finale without needing to learn a whole new way of doing things? ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] VST instruments in Fin09
1. Can we use whatever VST instruments we have in our libraries in any combination? yes, that works in F2k8 2. If yes, does this entail obtaining and installing some specialized software that doesn't ship with Finale? no. 3. If no, what limitations apply? haven't found any yet. 4. Has the stability of MIDI been improved or are there still problems like latency (that seems to come and go) and the sudden loss of sound that requires a reboot of Finale or the whole system? not on OS X 10.5, not sure about Windows. / Chris B ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Re: Garritan licensing fees
I wonder if Garritan receives ANY licensing fees for being included in the distribution. As we have been discussing, what they supply is artificially limited, practically forcing you to go out and spend a bunch of money with Garritan to address those deficiencies. I'm not saying that is bad or wrong or unetihcal. Indeed, it is the sort of co-marketing that happens all the time. dhbailey wrote: That's the one thing that's been holding me back from buying Garritan products. Having to spend $180 to buy the personal orchestra only to find out that I would have to purchase their JABB product also (for another $199) to get a more complete group of instruments, only to find that in reality I also needed to buy the Concert and Marching Band for another $180 to get a truly complete library of sounds that I might need in the course of my engraving work and preparing demos. That makes it a $559 proposition, something I wouldn't have suspected when I had bought that first GPO product, if I hadn't been a member of this list. Obviously Garritan is surviving quite nicely without my money (other than the licensing fees that Finale and Sibelius have paid them for the sounds they have included in their recent releases) but I think that with a bit more forethought and extensions of ranges, they could make a whole lot more money from a much wider clientele. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Garritan trombone range
The avoidance of the trigger is mostly about tradition more than anything else, and also that the number of instrument choices is limited. Probably 95% of the trigger trombones in existence are "large bore symphonic tenors", which really shouldn't be used in a big band. But last night I played a big band job with my current instrument of choice for that setting, which is a King 3B with F attachment, upon which somebody grafted a lighter weight Edwards bell. There is nothing about the F attachment that inhibits jazz soloing in any way. The trigger may not be used much during soloing because on most arrangements the trombone soloist needs to play mostly above middle C in order to be heard. But to the original issue, whether the low-E cutoff is appropriate for a generic "trombone" voice, if we were talking strictly about standard big band jazz arrangements, a low-E cutoff makes some sense. However, even back in the Glenn Miller era, lots of charts wrote pedal tones in for the trombones. But more than that, there is the symphonic trombone section that often goes below low-E, concert band music which does likewise, Hollywood scores that use much more of the range, and don't forget Broadway books which demand the extremes of range. I just don't understand why somebody would have gone to so much work to do only half the job. Carl Dershem wrote: Maybe it's an east coast/west coast thing? Most of the bands I play in, here in San Diego and up in L.A. have players who use triggers on 2nd and 3d chair. I prefer having a trigger even on my 3B not so much for the low range as for the added flexibility it gives me (there are passages that flow better using the trigger, and it can make page turns simpler if you cal play with one hand). A lot of the bands I work with have 1 Bach 26 or similar on 3rd, and a 3B or 36 on 2nd chair, with only the lead player playing a 'straight' horn, and I've found it gives the band a fatter sound. But ... different strokes, eh? cd ___ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] VST instruments in Fin09
Roger Jeffs wrote: I wonder if anyone can answer the following questions regarding finale 2009 for windows. I tried downloading the demo, but this appears to be without the functionality that I wanted to test. 1. Can we use whatever VST instruments we have in our libraries in any combination? No, not in ANY combination. You still need to set each VST player to a 16-channel "bank", so within each 16-channel range you are limited to instruments supported by that specific VST player. This would lead up to the limit of a max of 8 different VST players (=128 channels). 2. If yes, does this entail obtaining and installing some specialized software that doesn't ship with Finale? Often, a VST player ships with the sample library you're using. If so, you link those VST payers to Finale using MIDI/Audio->Device Setup->Manage VST Plug-ins. Finale 2009 also includes the Kontakt2 and Aria players. Some players are also available as freeware on the net, for example some SoundFont players. 3. If no, what limitations apply? 4. Has the stability of MIDI been improved or are there still problems like latency (that seems to come and go) and the sudden loss of sound that requires a reboot of Finale or the whole system? Impossible to answer since I don't know the cause of the issues you seem to be having. You're mentioning MIDI - isn't the MIDI input/output possible to test in the demo? Best regards, Jari Williamsson ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] VST instruments in Fin09
I wonder if anyone can answer the following questions regarding finale 2009 for windows. I tried downloading the demo, but this appears to be without the functionality that I wanted to test. 1. Can we use whatever VST instruments we have in our libraries in any combination? 2. If yes, does this entail obtaining and installing some specialized software that doesn't ship with Finale? 3. If no, what limitations apply? 4. Has the stability of MIDI been improved or are there still problems like latency (that seems to come and go) and the sudden loss of sound that requires a reboot of Finale or the whole system? Roger Jeffs ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan on AMD
dhbailey wrote: dhbailey wrote: [snip] the population which gets played for paying [snip] It's been a long time since I've had typing dyslexia -- I meant "the population which gets payed for playing" :-) Just kidding -- what I *really* meant was "the population which gets paid for playing" I'm going back to bed now! :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Wordextensions is now 2 lines
Hi, I'm on Finale 2009, but I remember that this also was a problem in 2008. If I click assign a line of text to a line of notes, I get 2 wordextensions lines where there only should be one. Selecting the Edit Word Extensions menu shows that there is now 2 small squares next to the notehead. The 2 lines are different in size, the upper is heavier! I have to remove the lower line manually!! Anyone with the same experience? Isn't this an error? regards Stig MUSICMIND Stig Christensen www.musicmind.dk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hovmarksvej 24A 2920 Charlottenlund DENMARK +4526212425 ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan on AMD
dhbailey wrote: [snip] the population which gets played for paying [snip] It's been a long time since I've had typing dyslexia -- I meant "the population which gets payed for playing" :-) -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan on AMD
Carl Dershem wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Craig, You are right about the orchestral trombones. Perhaps some bigbands have 3rd tbn. players with triggers, but here in NYC I rarely see that. Nobody wants to play a solo on an instrument with an attachment, and solos get passed around within the section fairly frequently. Maybe it's an east coast/west coast thing? Most of the bands I play in, here in San Diego and up in L.A. have players who use triggers on 2nd and 3d chair. I prefer having a trigger even on my 3B not so much for the low range as for the added flexibility it gives me (there are passages that flow better using the trigger, and it can make page turns simpler if you cal play with one hand). A lot of the bands I work with have 1 Bach 26 or similar on 3rd, and a 3B or 36 on 2nd chair, with only the lead player playing a 'straight' horn, and I've found it gives the band a fatter sound. But ... different strokes, eh? All the more perplexing why a product as great as Garritan is couldn't have been more accomodating for those different strokes -- they should have known that people would want to use Garritan product for their musical projects, not that people would shape their musical projects so that they could use Garritan products. With their limited ranges on their instruments, they're saying in essence "make your music fit our products or use different products." Which of course for most of us is out of the question, once we pay for the Garritan products. It's not as if we're made of money, and can afford to have a ton of sample libraries of the quality and price of Garritan's products just so that we can be sure we can produce accurate demos of our projects. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] rebaring after a meter change
As I recall, you also have to check the box "Soften Syncopations." And Michael is definitely correct when he says the answer is strange -- Has this sort of archaic placement of important settings been changed in Finale2009 or does the underlying midi data manipulation still suffer from lack of improvements? Midi Quantization settings is not someplace anybody would think to look when having problems with "Rebar Music" in the Time Signature dialog, and there should at least be a sentence in that dialog box to the effect of "If the results are not satisfactory, Undo the change, then check the settings in MIDI / Quantization dialog." David H. Bailey Michael Cook wrote: The answer is strange. You need to go to MIDI > Quantization settings. In the Quantization Settings dialog, click on "More Settings", and then check the option "Allow Dotted Rests in Compound Meters". Why do you have to change a setting about rests in a MIDI menu to affect something that has nothing to do with MIDI, nor with rests? I don't know. Michael On 9 août 08, at 19:33, Lee Dengler wrote: Hi All, I have a large section of 9/8 meter music that I want to change and rebar to 6/8. When I do all dotted quarter notes change to a quarter tied to an eighth note. Dotted half notes change to a quarter tied to eighth tied to quarter tied to eighth. Is there something I can do to keep dotted quarter notes and to change dotted half notes to 2 dotted quarter notes. If not, it will be faster for me just to re-enter the entire piece then to fix all the wrong notes. Thanks to anyone who can help. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Garritan on AMD
Carl Dershem wrote: Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Craig, The range is realistic -- jazz tenor trombone players almost never have an F attachment. I am sure the players they sampled for the JABB trombones did not have an F attachment on their horn. Hm. About half of the ones I work with (and have worked with in the past 30 years) have. cd I think that we're into semantics and demographics here. Darcy's comment may well be true for the full-time jazz trombone players who form the show bands in Vegas and who go on the road in the various configurations of big bands and who are the first call players for recordings and movie/tv work. However, I wonder how those trombonists would manage with an arrangement where all the trombone parts include the C below the staff, for example. Do they really say no thanks to such gigs? But there is a huge segment of the population which gets played for paying (making them professional) but who don't depend on such income for their sole support and who have other playing gigs and/or day jobs to earn their income and many of those have F-attachments. I imagine Garritan went for the best full-time working musicians in the fields they were trying to capture for the various soundsets they're marketing, and so Darcy's comment is most likely the reason that the range of the sampled instruments is restricted as it is. However, I would have thought that Garritan could think outside the box a bit and realize that they would have a much wider market for their products (their sampled sounds are excellent, within the ranges they've sampled) if they could have made their products a bit more versatile. Sure, most of the top-tier jazz trombone players may not use F-attachments when on jazz gigs (unless they're on 4th bone parts) but I'm fairly positive that all of them would own and feel comfortable playing F-attachment horns for those gigs when they're required to have that extended range, and they could have been sampled on those instruments. Or Garritan could have done some programming magic and figured out how to stretch the range. Soundfonts can do it. That's the one thing that's been holding me back from buying Garritan products. Having to spend $180 to buy the personal orchestra only to find out that I would have to purchase their JABB product also (for another $199) to get a more complete group of instruments, only to find that in reality I also needed to buy the Concert and Marching Band for another $180 to get a truly complete library of sounds that I might need in the course of my engraving work and preparing demos. That makes it a $559 proposition, something I wouldn't have suspected when I had bought that first GPO product, if I hadn't been a member of this list. Obviously Garritan is surviving quite nicely without my money (other than the licensing fees that Finale and Sibelius have paid them for the sounds they have included in their recent releases) but I think that with a bit more forethought and extensions of ranges, they could make a whole lot more money from a much wider clientele. -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] French terminology
Darcy, Yes, I know that of course. A few times however in contemporary, more complicated scores, I found a "piano (or réduction) pour les répétitions". Maybe that's what you're looking for? I do remember Boulez and Bartholomée among others. Cheers, Hans "Never take life seriously; no-one gets out alive anyway". On 09 aug 08, at 19:20, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hans, There is usually a nominal difference between a "rehearsal piano" part (simplified for playability) and a "piano reduction" (a more literal representation, which often contains unplayable passages). - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 9 Aug 2008, at 1:03 PM, Hans Swinnen wrote: In my experience a "rehearsal piano" of a work with orchestra has always been a "simplified" orchestra. One has only 10 fingers, no? Edition could serve as this will published separated for singers or tutti quanti. In your actual case I would definitely choose for "Réduction". Hans === You will excuse me for any typo's due to a visual handicap. On 09 aug 08, at 18:37, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Hans, Thanks! "Édition pour piano" won't work because it's a rehearsal piano *staff* in a opera score. "Réduction" seems closer to the mark, although it's not a true piano reduction because there are parts in the orchestration that are omitted from the rehearsal piano part. - Darcy ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
