Re: [Finale] Notion music notation software for iPad
Many thanks for this info, David! I've been waiting for something like this -- Symphony Pro hasn't cut it at all. Looking forward to trying this out! -- Mike On Dec 17, 2011, at 5:48 AM, David H. Bailey wrote: I just wanted to let the iPad users on this list know that Notion Software has just released a brand new music notation product for the iPad, Notion, which is a very robust product. It's got many of the capabilities of their larger product for computers which has been on the market for many years now, and it comes with fantastic instrumental sounds included. I sure hope that Finale and Sibelius are paying attention and are working on such software as well -- Notion can import and export MusicXML files so it will be possible (although I haven't tested it yet) to work on a file in Sibelius or Finale on the computer, export as MusicXML and load that onto the iPad and continue working on it while travelling and then export as MusicXML from Notion on the iPad back to the computer for more work. They've got an introductory price of just $.99 -- after December 20th the price will jump to $14.99. The product is much more like computer notation products (Finale, Sibelius, Notion) than Symphony Pro (the other very robust iPad music notation software product). To get a complete set of sounds you need to spend an additional $29.99 but in my opinion (as a working musician who is also a composer and arranger) it is definitely worth the price. And for a total of only $30.98 I have ended up with a fantastic app. It is a large download, though, runnning just around 1.9GB for the app itself and then an additional 1.5GB to hold the additional sounds I bought. It is possible to purchase just some additional sounds as in-app purchases, but I figured I would bite the bullet and just buy the whole thing right off the bat. Here's the link to the Notion software page about the new product: http://www.notionmusic.com/products/notionipad.html You can get to the appstore page from that screen simply by clicking on the Available on the AppStore link about half-way down the right hand side of the screen (you'll most likely have to scroll to see it). -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Notion music notation software for iPad
David -- I've played with it a bit so far too, and it's very impressive. However, is it only instrumental tracks/staves? When I was checking out starting a new document, I didn't see any category that wasn't instruments. Anyone else who's been playing with the app, I'd love to hear if I've just missed something. The vast majority of my work is in choral/voice. -- Mike On Dec 17, 2011, at 2:17 PM, David H. Bailey wrote: I've only played with Notion for iPad a little so far (darned holiday stuff is getting in the way!) but note entry is simple, it has articulations, dynamics, effects particular to whatever instrument the staff is set to, tuplets (user defined), it's an incredible app and for the intro price of 99-cents, it is a no-brainer for any musician with an ipad. I even splurged and spent the $29.99 for the complete sound set, and I have to say that what I've heard so far is incredible in its quality. It's an incredible piece of software that will leave Finale and Sibelius in the dust. And with the MusicXML import/export it becomes an excellent adjunct to Finale and Sibelius on the computers. David H. Bailey On 12/17/2011 12:54 PM, Eric Dannewitz wrote: This is a must buy for iPad owners. The sounds are very nice, a little better than the non-garritan sounds finale comes with (smartmusic synth stuff). Yeah, makemusic needs to get into the game. Do they have anything useful for ios out? They could easily do a smartmusic app for iOs...or at least like sibelius has done, a viewer app. Sent from my iSomething -- Eric Dannewitz Musician/Polymath/Evil Genius http://www.ericdannewitz.com On Dec 17, 2011, at 3:02 AM, David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com wrote: I just wanted to let the iPad users on this list know that Notion Software has just released a brand new music notation product for the iPad, Notion, which is a very robust product. It's got many of the capabilities of their larger product for computers which has been on the market for many years now, and it comes with fantastic instrumental sounds included. I sure hope that Finale and Sibelius are paying attention and are working on such software as well -- Notion can import and export MusicXML files so it will be possible (although I haven't tested it yet) to work on a file in Sibelius or Finale on the computer, export as MusicXML and load that onto the iPad and continue working on it while travelling and then export as MusicXML from Notion on the iPad back to the computer for more work. They've got an introductory price of just $.99 -- after December 20th the price will jump to $14.99. The product is much more like computer notation products (Finale, Sibelius, Notion) than Symphony Pro (the other very robust iPad music notation software product). To get a complete set of sounds you need to spend an additional $29.99 but in my opinion (as a working musician who is also a composer and arranger) it is definitely worth the price. And for a total of only $30.98 I have ended up with a fantastic app. It is a large download, though, runnning just around 1.9GB for the app itself and then an additional 1.5GB to hold the additional sounds I bought. It is possible to purchase just some additional sounds as in-app purchases, but I figured I would bite the bullet and just buy the whole thing right off the bat. Here's the link to the Notion software page about the new product: http://www.notionmusic.com/products/notionipad.html You can get to the appstore page from that screen simply by clicking on the Available on the AppStore link about half-way down the right hand side of the screen (you'll most likely have to scroll to see it). -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Disappearing hyphens
On Sep 10, 2011, at 7:35 AM, Haroldo Mauro Jr. wrote: This is Finale 2011 for Mac. All hyphens have vanished from the lyrics on my score and soprano part. They are still there, in the lyrics window, but not in the music, where spaces were substituted for them. They don't print either. What is that? It is amazing how many hours I have spent on Finale trying to figure out what is going on. Things just don't behave as expected. Trying to synchronize expression and repeat texts between score and parts is so time consuming that I just print parts without them and add them by pencil later. That's a lot faster. Has this happen with anyone before, I mean the vanishing hyphens? Thanks. Hi Haroldo -- This sort of thing has happened to me before, though I don't remember if it was all hyphens or just specific ones. Usually when it happens to me it's an issue with the minimum space setting for Smart Hyphens in the Lyrics preferences. The default, I think, is 144 (I work in EVPUs), but if I set it to a very small number, the missing hyphens reappear. Hope this helps! -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] re Character names
Many thanks, both Bonnie and Lance -- I'm sure that between the two of you, I've got something that will work! I really appreciate it. -- Mike On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Bonnie Janofsky wrote: Mike, Use the expressions category Technique Text. You can create the expressions in that category or move them to that category. If you move them in Technique Text, you then choose Reset to Category and Fonts and Position. That category has the closest placement to where you would want character names. I compose a lot for musical theater and use that all the time for my character names. You can edit the placement if you'd like then make copies of that expression for the other character names and they will all match. Bonnie Bonnie Ruth Janofsky composer / songwriter 818-784-4466 www.BonnieRuthJanofsky.com Message: 2 Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:47:21 -0400 From: Michael L Meyer mlmli...@gmail.com Subject: [Finale] Character names To: finale@shsu.edu Message-ID: 85db3bed-2e68-46de-9d53-48b74ddf6...@gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi all -- FinMac2011 -- working on a musical theatre score. In the past, I've assigned names of characters (at the beginning of a sung passage) as expressions. (e.g. JULIE JORDAN: or something like that) In Fin2011, I even made a category called character names so that each new character name I made would already use the same font, click placement, etc. However, the category definition forces me to designate a Staff List for assignment -- and there isn't an option that just says place this expression on the staff I place it on, and only that one. There's top staff, bottom staff, or any of the staves in the score -- but the staff I assign these expressions to changes with each use. Am I missing something? Or should I not be using expressions for this, and instead use measure-assigned text boxes? Thanks in advance for any help/ideas. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Character names
Hi all -- FinMac2011 -- working on a musical theatre score. In the past, I've assigned names of characters (at the beginning of a sung passage) as expressions. (e.g. JULIE JORDAN: or something like that) In Fin2011, I even made a category called character names so that each new character name I made would already use the same font, click placement, etc. However, the category definition forces me to designate a Staff List for assignment -- and there isn't an option that just says place this expression on the staff I place it on, and only that one. There's top staff, bottom staff, or any of the staves in the score -- but the staff I assign these expressions to changes with each use. Am I missing something? Or should I not be using expressions for this, and instead use measure-assigned text boxes? Thanks in advance for any help/ideas. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Deauthorize via Customer Support
On Aug 9, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi all, I thought that some might be interested to have a heads-up that apparently MakeMusic customer support have been instructed to be more... inquisitive, I'll say... when you call up and ask to deauthorize all versions of Finale associated with your serial number. Jeez, Darcy, and you've even done work for them before! Imagine if any of us more common-folk end up having an issue ... ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Notation app for iPad
Thanks very much for this, David. I've been trying to follow music app development on the iPad as closely as possible, and have been waiting for a notation app. (Just used my iPad as my digital music folder utilizing ForScore and AirTurn at a concert the other night, in fact! It was WONDERFUL having hands-free turning when playing the sax or piano.) Question (in case you know, and I'll also go check out the description in the app store) -- I have the Line6 MIDI Mobilizer for the iPad. Is Symphony Pro compatible? Meaning, I could hook up a MIDI controller to the iPad and use it with the app? Thanks again for bringing this to our attention! -- Mike On Jan 15, 2011, at 7:21 AM, David H. Bailey wrote: I just purchased Symphony Pro for my iPad and wanted to share it with these groups. (I apologize to those who belong to more than one of these groups who will be getting the message multiple times). I have no connection to the developer other than as a customer who wants to share the news of this app with people who might well find it useful. Symphony Pro is a music notation app which is in its infancy but already is quite impressive as far as it goes. It was just released for sale on January 7th. It's a bit on the high side of expense for iPad apps at $12.99, but when we've spent $300 or more on Finale or Sibelius and countless more money on upgrades, what's another $13? A score can have multiple staves, so ensembles are possible. Currently the maximum number of staves per score is only 6, but it possible to have 2 voices on each staff, for a total of 12 independent parts, and the stems can be made to go in opposite directions or the same direction on each staff as one choose. It does include playback and has a selection of brass, string, woodwind, guitar, bass, keyboard and percussion sounds to choose from. There are onscreen buttons to select between individual staff view or seeing the entire score, and also to select between the voices to set the active voice for entry and editing. Chords are possible to enter on any of the staves, all in the same voice, so the actual number of independent parts possible to notate could be higher if one wanted, for example, to have rhythmically identical parts in multiple instruments on a single voice on a single staff. One could enter chordal parts for clarinets (for example) in voice one on a staff and also enter chordal parts for bass clarinets in voice two on the same staff. I haven't tested the limits of playback so I don't know if the range of the instruments is limited to real-world limits (e.g. clarinets not sounding below written E below middle C). Currently the shortest note or rest value is 32nd notes. It does allow for triplets, but that's the only tuplet so far. It does allow for ties and dotted notes. There are two ways to enter notes: one is to select the value from a palette and then hit the appropriate key on an onscreen musical keyboard or touch the screen where you want the note entered. It is possible to change the pitches once entered by selecting the pitch and using an on-screen set of cursors to move it up or down. It can do a lot more as well, but I've only begun to investigate it. It can export as XML (not completely accurate yet, as admitted by the developer, but he's working on improving that), as MIDI, as mp3, as PDF, as LilyPond format and as SYM (the native format so you could share the file with other SymphonyPro users). The way the files are exported is that they are emailed to whatever address you wish, so you need to be near a wifi or have bought and enabled the model with 3G capability. I only bought the model with wi-fi so I'll need to be near a wifi hotspot, but that's fine since I can transfer the files at the very least when I'm at home. You can import files from an online site where you've uploaded them if you wish. Importing the XML files into Finale or Sibelius produces some errors, which the developer is aware of and is working to fix. Importing as midi carries along the usual midi import hassles but the pitch and rhythm data imports just fine (so far). And since it's not possible to have music which is overly complex (nested tuplets aren't possible) midi import shouldn't be too much of a problem. It's certainly not going to replace Finale or Sibelius, but as a tool to take on the road for sketching out ideas and listening to them playback, I think it's a terrific little app which should get better and better in the months to come. It may not be for everybody, but for people who have iPads and work with composing/arranging and want a tool to travel with which eliminates bringing along a larger/heavier notebook computer, this is certainly worth looking into. -- David H. Bailey dhbai...@davidbaileymusicstudio.com ___
[Finale] Congratulations to Darcy!
Not that I post here very often, but it was very cool to open my August issue of Downbeat and see a familiar name from this list featured! Darcy was named Rising Star in the Big Band, Composer and Arranger categories in this year's Downbeat Critic's Poll. Very cool -- mazel tov! -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Crediting the copyist
Hi Rich -- While I would agree with everyone else that for most contemporary music it's not common, it IS common in musical theatre -- most computer-engraved (but not hand-engraved) scores I've come across (especially from MTI) in recent years include the name of the copying service, if not the copyist him/herself, on one of the first pages. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: What would you charge for recording?
Hi all -- Not Finale-related, but hoping to find an answer in the collected experience of the people on this list: A local high school is gearing up for their spring musical, and the company they're renting from doesn't provide a RehearseScore or anything like that for them to use while rehearsing. I've been asked to make a recording from the piano-conductor score so they have accompaniments to work with during their rehearsals. Nothing fancy -- they give me a chance to practice with it, then I come in to the school and they spend an afternoon recording me playing it on their piano. Although I've done some similar things in the past, I've never done a job quite like this and I've been asked what I would charge? How would you do it/how have you done it? Flat rate, hourly charge, and at what rate for either option? Thanks to anyone who's able to provide me with some guidance. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] iPhone number keypad
Downloaded and tried it yesterday -- it worked GREAT with Finale! It's very responsive, and the click that you get when you press a key is very helpful. The best part is that I have a USB number pad that I've used for years, but it never had an equals sign on it. So every time I wanted to create a tie in Speedy, I had to take my hand off the pad to get to the equals sign on the laptop keyboard. Now I won't have to. Thanks very much for sending it along, Randolph. -- Mike On Oct 28, 2009, at 8:23 PM, Jim Hale wrote: THAT is pretty cool - I'll have to give it a try. :) Jim Hale Hale Recordings 573-727-6511 -Original Message- From: finale-boun...@shsu.edu [mailto:finale-boun...@shsu.edu] On Behalf Of Randolph Peters Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 1:08 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: [Finale] iPhone number keypad Finale speedy note entry really relies on having a numeric keypad, but many laptop computers don't have one. If you've got an iPhone or iPod touch, this free app can help: http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=310129994; mt=8 I haven't tried it yet myself, but apparently it works in both Windows and the Mac OS. -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Expressions problem
Thanks, Christopher. It's at least nice to know I wasn't going nuts, or doing something wrong. I'll follow your advice -- although, IIRC from dragging around as I was first discovering this, the handles and the graphics don't move at the same rate when dragged. Which would probably have something to do with Nudge and redraw as necessary. I will make sure to complain as much as I can. First time I've ever needed the tool. Interesting. Thanks again. -- Mike On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:30 PM, Christopher Smith wrote: Hi Mike, You're doing nothing wrong. Graphic expressions are broken this way in Finale 2007-2008 and maybe other versions too. I gave up on them because of this. Place them in page view and redraw. If you are using any staff reduction, they will probably shift to where they are going to print. Reposition them to the right place while trying to remember how much offset there was and redraw again. Nudge and redraw as necessary. Complain loudly and ungraciously to MakeMusic for leaving this so buggy for so long as to practically make it useless. Christopher On Jan 12, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Michael L Meyer wrote: Hello Great Gurus -- After 14(?) years of using Finale, I finally have need for the expression designer. Go figure ... FinMac08 -- I'm trying to make an expression (or would it be an articulation?) that automatically attaches directly above the note (and above the staff) that I attach it to. The expression uses an imported graphic -- basically, I'm arranging a piece that uses an iPhone Ocarina, and I'm trying to attach the various pictures of the fingerings to each note in the part. Importing the graphic is no problem, although at the moment it appears a bit bigger than I'd like. The problem is that getting the placement right in scroll view isn't translating to anything else. I've uploaded graphic files of four views, which can be found at http://public.me.com/mlmmusic in the folder Expression problem. The view where I place them (file named score view scroll) is fine (though, as I said, the graphics are a bit big at the moment). However, when I switch to page view (file score view page) the placement is completely offset. Updating layout, redrawing screen, etc. don't change it. While the difference in part view isn't quite as bad (part view scroll), there is still a horizontal offset from the first file. And then part view page shows horizontal AND vertical offset. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong in the various settings that makes the placement change from view to view. Did I do something wrong in the designer? Should I have set something different in the expression placement dialog box? Is there anyone out there who can help me? Thanks in advance for any assistance provided. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Expressions problem
Hello Great Gurus -- After 14(?) years of using Finale, I finally have need for the expression designer. Go figure ... FinMac08 -- I'm trying to make an expression (or would it be an articulation?) that automatically attaches directly above the note (and above the staff) that I attach it to. The expression uses an imported graphic -- basically, I'm arranging a piece that uses an iPhone Ocarina, and I'm trying to attach the various pictures of the fingerings to each note in the part. Importing the graphic is no problem, although at the moment it appears a bit bigger than I'd like. The problem is that getting the placement right in scroll view isn't translating to anything else. I've uploaded graphic files of four views, which can be found at http://public.me.com/mlmmusic in the folder Expression problem. The view where I place them (file named score view scroll) is fine (though, as I said, the graphics are a bit big at the moment). However, when I switch to page view (file score view page) the placement is completely offset. Updating layout, redrawing screen, etc. don't change it. While the difference in part view isn't quite as bad (part view scroll), there is still a horizontal offset from the first file. And then part view page shows horizontal AND vertical offset. I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong in the various settings that makes the placement change from view to view. Did I do something wrong in the designer? Should I have set something different in the expression placement dialog box? Is there anyone out there who can help me? Thanks in advance for any assistance provided. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] IKE
Best of luck, Prof. Howey! Stay safe! -- Mike On Sep 12, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Howey, Henry wrote: The universirt is already closed, and I expect we'll lose power over Friday night. This may be the last post until power is restored;-) Henry Howey Professor of Music Sam Houston State University Box 2208 Huntsville, TX 77341 (936) 294-1364 http://www.shsu.edu/music/faculty/howey.php Owner of FINALE Discussion List ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Lyrics: Is Melisma with System Break Fixed?
Hey David -- Auto-hyphenation (and for ending syllables, auto-word extensions) take care of this in Finale versions since yours, although I know some have been bitten by a bug in the past where auto-hyphens would be missing from time to time (though I do a lot of choral music, and haven't had a problem). It's seemed (as far as I can tell) to work fine for me in FinMac2004, 2007, and nowadays 2008. Others may be able to speak to whether the bug has been fixed or not. I haven't seen anything on here about it in a while. I also know that many don't use the default settings that Finale provides for auto-hyphens, but they seem to work for me just fine as is. I've never changed the defaults. -- Mike On Sep 11, 2008, at 4:10 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Do recent versions of Finale do anything about the problem of melismas that cross system breaks? That is, the syllable continuation dash stops at the end of the first system, and you have to insert a syllable of some sort at the beginning of the second system to get proper dashes for the melisma. I just spent hours redoing a file after I'd screwed up they lyrics trying to insert a sylllable to anchor the beginning of the system break (I'm still on WinFin2K3), and would really like to know if this has been fixed in recent versions of Finale. There realy is no reason at all why Finale should not simply do things the right way by default. -- David W. Fentonhttp://dfenton.com David Fenton Associates http://dfenton.com/DFA/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Lyrics: Is Melisma with System Break Fixed?
On Sep 11, 2008, at 5:34 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: Do you only get the proper hyphen at the beginning of system breaks if you use auto hyphenation? I believe so - in Document Options, there's a check-box for Use Smart Hyphens. As far as I can tell, you only get automatic placement of hyphens at the beginning of systems with that checked. Although, now that I was looking at it, I have changed the default maximum space between hyphens setting before -- so I was slightly off when I said I haven't changed the defaults. I posted a JPG screenshot of that part of the lyric options window, if you'd like to take a look -- again, from MacFin2k8. It's in my public folder at http://public.me.com/mlmmusic. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Desktop versus laptop survey
Laptop 90% of the time overall, but I use my desktop for most of my Finale stuff. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text blocks on a single part
Thanks very much to Darcy and others for your answers and help. And you're absolutely right, Darcy -- I haven't spent enough time learning the new stuff in 07 (and for that matter, 08). I still have absolutely no clue what I'm doing with GPO, for example (I had skipped 06) -- but I also haven't gone through your tutorials yet. Anyway, thanks again to all. -- Mike On Nov 8, 2007, at 12:04 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hi Michael, When in part view, use the override key when invoking the contextual menu to hide the text expression *everywhere*, then, without using the override key, use the contextual menu to show the text expression only in that part. It's a two-step process, but it's much faster than going through the parts one by one. I don't normally like telling people to RTFM, but the section in the Finale documentation on linked parts is very good, and is absolutely essential reading for anyone who wants to make use of this feature. It explains the use of the override key in detail and runs through the easiest way to get the results you want (show in score only, show in one part only, show in all parts but not score, etc). - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Text blocks on a single part
Hey all -- Working mostly in FinMac07, at the moment 08. I haven't been able to figure out, when working in a linked part, how to create a text block that appears in only the part I'm currently working on, without being created in all the other parts and the score as well. Is this possible? I've been looking in the HTML help, but can't find anything that addresses this. TIA -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Text blocks on a single part
Thanks very much, Dennis and JD! That's what I needed to know -- I tend not to use contextual menus, though I should more often. I'd definitely speed up my work. BTW -- this method with the text blocks seems odd to me -- shouldn't there be a way to toggle back and forth (as a preference, or menu item) between created text blocks appearing in the part only vs. score and all parts? It's a PITA to create the block, then have to go through all the parts I DON'T want it to appear in, just so I can have it appear in one part only. And for certain blocks, I prefer not to do it as an expression. -- Mike On Nov 8, 2007, at 11:13 AM, ThomaStudios wrote: I've done this in FinMac07. Create the text block in the score or the part, and hide it in the score. Control-click the handle for the option. IIRC, the keyboard command is Cmd-Opt-Cntl H (or maybe L). My mind is fuzzy right now. J D Thomas ThomaStudios On Nov 8, 2007, at 7:04 AM, Michael L. Meyer wrote: Hey all -- Working mostly in FinMac07, at the moment 08. I haven't been able to figure out, when working in a linked part, how to create a text block that appears in only the part I'm currently working on, without being created in all the other parts and the score as well. Is this possible? I've been looking in the HTML help, but can't find anything that addresses this. TIA -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Sib 5 Playback
Hi Dean -- I'm a lurker, and don't know much about Sibelius, but aren't you on a Mac? And if that's the case, wouldn't you need an AU (Audio Unit) version of Kontakt installed, not VST? Hoping this helps ... -- Mike On Oct 25, 2007, at 10:20 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Yeah, I've been going though it over and over with Daniel and another Sib man, so far, everything seems to be installed and in the correct folders. The path from the Kontakt 2 Library to the needed files in the Ap Folder seems to be in place ... so far, at least, the answer is not forthcoming. The Sib guys are really working hard to try and solve it. Thanks, Dean On Oct 25, 2007, at 12:16 PM, dhbailey wrote: Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Yeah, I'm using Kontkt 2, the right hand panel in the set up window, at Daniel's suggestion, reads kontakt 2 VST, with the sound sets reading Sib essential sounds. This is the only combination, that I've found, at least, that the program will allow to make any playback possible. His original suggestion was to have that panel read,Kontakt 2 VST, with GPO selected as the sound set. All that did was to constantly bring up the message, when I tried to play anything back or enter a note, Kontakt 2 file can not be found. Please check to see it was loaded correctly into the Library. Then, when the OK radio button is pushed (the only otion), the message just keeps reappearing, causing me to force quit the AP. Nope, as it is, it sounds just like the old fin softsynth stuff. So, I dunno. I certainly appreciate your time in responding to this. Do you have the full GPO on your computer, or just the fin package? Thanks, Dean [snip] I do not have the full GPO, but in addition to the FinaleGPO stuff, I have the SibeliusGPO stuff (which is part of the Sibelius Sounds Essentials stuff). Are you sure that it all got installed when you installed Sibelius? -- David H. Bailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Dean M. Estabrook http://deanestabrook.googlepages.com/home Don't worry about the end of the world, it's already tomorrow in Australia. Charles Shultz ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: choir+piano layout
The publisher I see nowadays who almost always prints choral music on letter-size (or folded tabloid, same difference) is E.C. Schirmer. In fact, I just received a box of scores from them that, when you look inside and notice the amount of white space in the margins, are reprinted from an old octavo-sized score onto the letter-size paper. There are a few other publishers who will use letter-size from time to time, but everything I've received from E.C. Schirmer in the past few years has been on letter-size paper. -- Mike On Aug 1, 2007, at 1:43 PM, John Howell wrote: At 9:24 PM -0400 7/31/07, Lora Crighton wrote: --- David W. Fenton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 29 Jul 2007 at 9:29, Christopher Smith wrote: The largest choral parts I have ever seen are 8.5 x 11 Commercially printed choral music is always octavo size, which is, of course, smaller than 8.5 x 11. That didn't seem right, so I checked - I actually own several pieces commercially printed choral music that is letter size, and one that is a strange (to me) size, being a bit taller a bit narrower than letter. Most of my scores are early music, so perhaps that makes a difference? Unusual to find commercially printed letter size, but not surprising these days. The taller and narrower pages you describe are almost certainly A4 size, the European equivalent of letter size. I am not writing for publication, but for immediate use, and I use U.S. letter size exclusively because all U.S. business machines are set up to handle that size quickly and painlessly. (We have a rather large population of international students, and every once in a while a student will turn in written work formatted for A4 as an electronic file. Our department's printer is smart enough to recognize the difference and to wait for A4 paper, which of course we don't have, with the result that that one file holds up the queue waiting to be printed until someone notices and tells it to print anyway!!) John -- John R. Howell Virginia Tech Department of Music Blacksburg, Virginia, U.S.A 24061-0240 Vox (540) 231-8411 Fax (540) 231-5034 (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) http://www.music.vt.edu/faculty/howell/howell.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] a hopeful sign
On Jul 13, 2007, at 7:49 AM, dc wrote: This reminds me of the hyphen bug, that MM claimed to have solved with one of the first 2007 updates. Actually, only a small part of it was adressed, and the rest is still there in 2008. I've send quite a few messages and files to tech support, the last ones one week ago already, and am still waiting to here from them. Don't know if it'll mean much, but hyphens definitely went missing in the arrangement I was just working on in 2007c (. Once I retyped the syllables-plus-hyphens using Type Into Score, they were fine again, but it wasn't fun scouring 15 pages to find and fix the missing hyphens -- probably about 10 to 15 missing hyphens in all. I will say, however, that I didn't help my situation -- I typed into score all along the way, in an arrangement that I did a few pages at a time, with much copying and pasting (including lyrics) between sections and between vocal parts. I haven't wanted to get close to seeing what my lyrics look like in the Edit Lyrics window. I did this consciously, knowing I might set myself up for problems, but it still doesn't change the fact that the bug is there and shouldn't be. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Missing systems in Page View
Hi Brennon -- On the offchance that something got messed up accidentally -- like a huge number in the space between systems area of the Edit System Margins window -- here's what I would try: Open the Edit System Margins window in Page Layout. Put 0 in the Space Between Systems box, then enter From system 1 through 0, which will select all systems. Click Apply and see what happens. Frankly, I don't think this is the problem, but at least it's something else to try. And also, see Chris's reply about the key command for Update Layout. Maybe you've been pressing the wrong thing? -- Mike On Apr 27, 2007, at 10:54 AM, Brennon Bortz wrote: That's the command to show multiple pages on one screen in page view. The problem is, Finale doesn't think there are multiple pages to display, so it's only showing me one--regardless of whether I've chosen to show multiple pages or not. Still nothing. --BB On Apr 27, 2007, at 5:09 AM, Christopher Smith wrote: On Apr 27, 2007, at 6:24 AM, dhbailey wrote: Brennon Bortz wrote: Hello list, I've entered a bunch of music in scroll view, and then switched to page view. There should be around 25 pages of music, or so. But, when I switched to Page view, only 13 were available. I removed optimization--no help. I removed system locks-- nothing. I redefined all pages. After doing so, now only the first page of music is available. When I do something crazy, like use Fit Music to fit 99 measures to a system, I do in fact see 99 measures on the first page. I know the music is there, but I can't seem to get to it. I've tried update layout several times. Changed update layout settings to remove system locks and reflow--nothing. When I go into system margins, the reported space needed for an additional system is zero, which leads me to believe that Finale thinks it doesn't have another system to fit. Tried to use Space Systems Evenly to force a second system on the first page. Trashed preferences (both Finale 2006 Preferences and com.MakeMusic.Finale.plist in the Users/Library/Preferences folder). I can successfully insert a blank page after the first and view it. Can't get to any other pages by either clicking the arrows at the bottom of the screen or by typing in a page number. Inserting a blank staff system after the first does nothing (I'm assuming the system was inserted...I just can't see it.) Resizing all staff systems down to 15% still shows only one system on the first page. Using FinMac2006d. I'd appreciate any ideas. In page layout you need to update the layout to show the added pages. On windows machines, that's ctrl-u but I'm not sure what it is on a mac. on Mac it's command-\ But he said he updated layout already, several times. Whenever Finale starts behaving unexpectedly like this, it's a good time to quit, logout and log back in again. A couple of times I've needed to restart, but logout and in seems to solve a lot of flakiness. Let us know how this works. Christopher ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Brennon Bortz Teaching Assistant and Graduate Student - Music Composition University of California, Riverside [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Missing systems in Page View
On Apr 27, 2007, at 12:33 PM, Brennon C. Bortz wrote: Mike, I've been trying Command-/ and Command-\ (which both seem to be a shortcut for Show Multiple Pages) as well as Command-D for Update Layout. See, now I thought Command-D was to redraw the screen. What version are you on? I have 2007, but I still mostly use 2004. Are these commands that changed in the newer versions? I'm not at that computer now, but I'll try what you've suggested in an hour or so. I appreciate the idea, but I'm afraid this isn't the problem either. If there was an enourmous amount of space between staves, wouldn't this give me even more pages than I expect, instead of only one? Possibly, but I've seen interesting things happen in that window with interesting numbers -- always by accident, but interesting nonetheless. Maybe there's a large negative number and Finale doesn't know what to do with it either. I have very little confidence that this is actually but the problem, but I feel like I've had a similar problem before to what you're having now, and that the solution was something really simple that I had overlooked for a long time before realizing it. As this is a composition that I have to have to performers by Monday, I need to find a solution on very short order. I have a huge number of expressions to place and notes to place in the score--you know how new music goes. I guess I could do this in Scroll View and just wait to find a solution, but I'm wondering if there's a better way to go about this. What would happen if I just copied everything into a blank document? I have no libraries loaded that aren't already in my default document. I do have a few custom shapes that I've created, however. Is this all that I will lose? Obviously, page formatting isn't an issue, as I haven't been able to operate in Page View yet. Any thoughts? I really can't think of anything else, based on what you've said you've done. Whenever I have problems with seeing things the way I think I'm supposed to be seeing them, I always do a few things in the same order: 1. In Mass Edit, select all and select Apply Note Spacing. (Of course, other people might choose different spacing options.) 2. Make sure (in Page View) that the first page of the document is open/active and select Update Layout. (which usually is Command-\) 3. Select Screen Redraw. (which usually is Command-D) That usually takes care of all possible visual problems with Finale. But I think you said you've done these things, so I for one am baffled. If you'd like, feel free to attach the file to an e-mail and send it to me off-list, and I can try a couple of things to see what might work. I'm on my MacBook, though, which only has 2007 on it. (I haven't done any of the updaters yet.) -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Missing systems in Page View
Sorry -- just to clarify -- I realized that when I wrote: ... but I feel like I've had a similar problem before to what you're having now, and that the solution was something really simple that I had overlooked for a long time before realizing it. ... it's different than what I meant -- and also really condescending, which I didn't mean to be! I meant that whatever the solution was for the problem that I had, I've forgotten what it was now, but I remember it was something obvious and overlooked. And now I think I'm making even less sense. Sorry. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] O.T. Joshua Bell at L'Enfant Plaza
I must say I'm really enjoying this discussion, and seeing/agreeing with points on the different sides of the different issues raised. However, this one point: On Apr 10, 2007, at 12:09 PM, David W. Fenton wrote: But it is a cultural difference -- a difference between people who live their lives on inflexible schedules (and leave no time for anything else) and people who are less rigid about it. doesn't make sense to me. I am a person with a pretty definitive schedule, and a busy one, at that. Why should it follow, then, that I have no time for anything else? Or more specifically, don't have time to appreciate good aesthetic experiences? Just because I might have to pass by the world-famous violinist in the subway because I need to get to work on time in the morning? And though I may not stop to listen, why does it automatically follow that I didn't appreciate the beauty of the music? Perhaps as I walked by I said to myself, Wow, that is beautiful music-making. I wish I could stop to hear more. Is that reaction less valid than that of the person who thinks that AND stops? That's just unfair. I went to a concert of one of my all-time favorites, Billy Joel, a month or so ago. The drunk people in the row in front of me were whooping, hollering, and dancing to the music. I stood and listened, observed, and took it all in. Would a third party conclude that the people in front of me had a better appreciation for Billy's music than me, simply because they showed a more physical response? And I really think that's what the major contribution of the article was -- we should consider how our life choices about work have an effect on our ability to experience and appreciate art and esthetics. I can see the point about experiencing art, yes. But not appreciating it. Just because I have more time in the evening to go and seek good aesthetic experiences -- to fit them AROUND my inflexible schedule -- doesn't change my level of appreciation for those experiences, even the ones I don't have time for. As I said above, just because I don't (or CAN'T) stop to listen to the busker, doesn't mean I don't (or can't) appreciate his/her art. Or in a different context: even though I must do my grocery shopping at certain times, I still sing along with that really good song that comes on over the speakers. Perhaps that last sentence doesn't quite make the point the way I'd like it to, but the point IS this: my appreciation of art or aesthetics isn't dimmed by any time limits put on it by my schedule. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] O.T. Joshua Bell at L'Enfant Plaza
On Apr 10, 2007, at 3:49 PM, Kim Patrick Clow wrote: Someone wrote (I forget who ;) I am a person with a pretty definitive schedule, and a busy one, at that. Why should it follow, then, that I have no time for anything else? Or more specifically, don't have time to appreciate good aesthetic experiences? Just because I might have to pass by the world-famous violinist in the subway because I need to get to work on time in the morning? I suppose I'm lucky that I have a job that arriving 5 minutes late isn't that big of a deal; and considering how many others stop and watch musicians in NYC's subways, I'm guessing they can be a few minutes late too. People take time for things they value, so if Washingtonians decided to ignore Joshua Bell, then oh well, that's their loss. It was me who wrote it. And you are lucky, Kim, to have a job like that. You're definitely not the norm. I don't think you quite caught the gist of my message, though. Of course I stop and watch musicians when I am able to do so. But, for example, what if I am really enjoying the music from a person performing in the subway, but can't stay to listen, because if I take too long, then I will miss the curtain of the other aesthetic experience I'm on my way to, like a Broadway show? And, in fact, since I don't live in NYC anymore, this is exactly my experience when I am in the City nowadays. My point here is that my passing by the busker doesn't mean I value his art any less than if I had stopped. It certainly *could* mean that, but not necessarily. And you're right, it *is* my loss, but doesn't the fact that I do recognize it as a loss then prove that I value it? I think I'm basically piggybacking on Darcy's (and others') notion that people stopping or not stopping doesn't automatically prove whether the people in the Washington station valued what they were hearing or not. Hearing something of value in the music is only ONE possible reason for stopping or not stopping, and even hearing something of value in the music doesn't *determine* whether a person would have stopped -- there could be other more pressing concerns (like I need to be on time to work). The unscientific nature of the experiment really does end up defeating it: a quantitative measure of whether people stop to listen or not is not nearly as effective as qualitatively following up with all those commuters afterwards, and asking for their reasoning. I know it would be nearly impossible to do that (and I know they did it with a few), but that's part of the point too, isn't it? -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Piano selections for a funeral?
Thanks very much to everyone who sent suggestions, both on- and off-list. It is very much appreciated. There were a number that, I think, were probably in the back of my mind, but would have taken a long time of sifting through my music library to make their way to the front. Thanks for helping me fast-track! And thanks for the anecdotes and stories as well! I'm not sure how my wife's family feels about it, but I get through just about everything in my life with humor, so thanks for helping me keep along. This list continues to amaze. I appreciate your efforts. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT (and kind of depressing): Piano selections for a funeral?
Hello all -- Sorry for the OT post -- this is the best place I know to get advice on ALL things musical. My wife's grandfather passed away this week, and we will be heading over for the memorial service on Monday. I've been asked to play for the service -- there are two hymns during the service (Amazing Grace and The Old Rugged Cross -- not a problem, even for this Jewish guy), and then I'll need some music for the 15-20 minutes before the service begins, plus something to play at the end. The question is: what music? I've done more than my share of weddings and parties and cocktail hours, but never a memorial service. My grandmother-in-law asked for what she described as you know, light classical and my father-in-law said elevator music. Those of you gigging keyboardists out there: what are some art (nonpop, whatever you like) music pieces -- even if cliché -- that I can whip out and read through pretty easily? I figured second movement of the Beethoven Pathetique worked pretty well, but hadn't gotten much beyond there. I have a decently stocked piano music library at home, and figured to start browsing through it this evening, but it would be great if my browsing had some direction to it. Any and all suggestions are appreciated. Come to think of it, pop music choices are fine too. Please feel free to respond on- or off-list. TIA! -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Trouble adding a natural to a note.
On 12/14/06 11:48 PM, Kim Patrick Clow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/finale/flat-to-add.jpg The note that is pointed with an arrow (G), needs a natural added to it. But Finale will not let me (I'm assuming because it thinks this note hasn't had a # before). What would be a solution to adding a natural sign? Hi Kim -- I assume you just mean to add a courtesy accidental. I don't know how you do it in anything other than Speedy entry, but in Speedy entry, put the cursor on the note in question and press asterisk (*). -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] O.T. Christmas Trees on the Finale List
Thanks very much, Kim! A little slice of home (I grew up in New York). I am most yearning for NYC at holiday-time right now! -- Mike On 12/5/06 11:23 PM, Kim Patrick Clow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With the cold weather and Christmas season upon us, I wanted to share with the wonderful people on this list pictures of the Christmas Tree that I'm so lucky to see everyday at work. This is Rockefeller Plaza's tree; and from what I understand, it's one of the nicer trees they've had. When I leave work at night, it's really beautiful to walk by and listen to the music and enjoy the lights--watching the skaters on the rink below. Since there are so many people on this list, it'd be really wonderful to see Christmas trees from your part of the world, so feel free to share ;) http://www.bytenet.net/kpclow/christmas_2006/ are the photos I have posted. Thanks much, Kim Patrick Clow ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Importing a score
On 10/26/06 6:13 AM, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, and the process can be made even more accurate if several things are done: 1) the midi file is quantized in a sequencer program -- PowerTracksPro is a very inexpensive sequencer from www.pgmusic.com which can do this. The quantization needs to be done to a level where notational accuracy can be gotten, even if the actual sound of the midi file isn't what is desired. Such as removing the swing from a jazz file, and quantizing to 8th notes. 2) the quantization settings in Finale match those used in step 1, so that Finale will know how to deal with the data it will find in the midi file. Since Finale shouldn't have to actually apply any quantization to the file (assuming that step 1 was done), it won't have a chance to screw things up. If I remember MIDI import correctly (and it's been a long time since I've used it, so I may not be correct), it will also save a lot of work if the note values in the MIDI file are long enough to represent the note you want. For example, I seem to remember that notes meant to be quarter notes where the key was actually pressed for a shorter amount of time (perhaps because one was using a sustain pedal or something) would get imported as an eighth note and an eighth rest. In most sequencers, this involves dragging the end of the piano-roll notation to be closer to where it technically should end, given the note value you want it to be once imported. Can be a PITA (and will also mess up the playback of the actual MIDI file to a degree), but probably less of a PITA than changing eighth-note-eighth-rest combos to full quarter notes once in Finale. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Importing a score
On 10/26/06 1:01 PM, Randolph Peters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael L. Meyer wrote: In most sequencers, this involves dragging the end of the piano-roll notation to be closer to where it technically should end, given the note value you want it to be once imported. Can be a PITA (and will also mess up the playback of the actual MIDI file to a degree), but probably less of a PITA than changing eighth-note-eighth-rest combos to full quarter notes once in Finale. I find that it is much more efficient to 1) quantize the endings of notes in a separate pass from quantizing the note beginnings (up to the nearest quarter or eighth note or whatever), or 2) choose a function that moves the endings of notes to the nearest note beginning. You probably have only a few note endings to drag after doing these operations. -Randolph Peters That's true -- I forgot that most programs have the ability to quantize endings -- it's been a while since I've had to do something like that. And my main program for sequencing nowadays is Logic, which I don't believe has functions to work on note endings in Matrix view -- certainly helped me to forget about programs which can do it! -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Harmonic Rhythm
On 9/12/06 10:45 PM, A-NO-NE Music [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Michael Meyer responded off list, which helped me a lot. I am not sure why he didn't respond to the list and I certainly hope he doesn't mind I am mentioning here. Sorry -- I wasn't sure if what I had to say would have been of interest to the whole list, but I'm happy to paste my original response to Hiro below. I hesitated to just call what Hiro was describing form, as it's the umbrella term and not nearly specific enough to describe the KIND of form he was talking about. My original message below: -- Hi Hiro -- I'm not sure of the term exactly (there may not be one in English), and am looking forward to seeing if someone has an answer. But two ideas spring to mind that might relate (perhaps where an answer might be found): One is the theoretical idea of hypermeter (most notably espoused by William Rothstein in _Phrase Rhythm in Tonal Music_). Hypermeter is more about the grouping of measures into larger units, not necessarily equal, and not always with larger sections reflecting the same priorities as smaller sections -- but it might be a place to start looking for an answer to your question. The other, of course, would be the Fibonacci sequence and the Golden Ratio, which are very much reflected by where the climax occurs in your description. And since every smaller division reflects every larger division in your description, that fits as well. Fibonacci doesn't explain all the details of the four sections, but at least its a mathematical explanation of why the climax is where it is. Don't know if this helps you at all -- thought I'd give it a shot. I look forward to seeing what other listmembers say. - -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: closing kit gesture at the end of a piece?
Back when I sang a cappella in college, and the vocal percussionist was the one who had to do the aforementioned button, we called it what it sounded like: a Kick a Jew. Which, while completely inappropriate, was still funny because I'm Jewish and was the vocal percussionist. Except for when they kicked me. -- Mike (who's almost sorry to have added absolutely nothing productive to the discussion) On 9/10/06 1:54 PM, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 9, 2006, at 9:06 PM, Matthew Hindson Fastmail acct wrote: I'm sure the wisdom of this list can help me here: Is there a name for the drum kit cliche that typically (used to) close off the final chord of soft jazz/lounge pieces? It sort of sounds like a triplet down the toms down to the kick drum/snare. Chickaboom. But it starts w. hi-hat and is certainly not a triplet. Andrew Stiller Kallisti Music Press http://home.netcom.com/~kallisti/ ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Mac Pro unveiled
On 8/9/06 11:49 AM, Eric Dannewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just played a classic recording session and they used ProTools.Are you saying ProTools isn't a serious pro mastering application? I can't think of anyone who doesn't use ProTools...and Digidesign announced Intel versions of Protools for Mac OS X in September. Actually, no -- ProTools isn't a mastering application. Sure, people use it for mastering, and it IS of course the industry standard for digital audio recording (much to my chagrin, since I'm a Logic guy) -- but it is NOT a serious mastering application. Not like some of the other ones Johannes mentioned. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] TAN: iKeys latest version
Robert -- I've been thinking about getting FinMac2007, and I have a possibility at school to get a MacBook, so if I do both, I won't need to worry about Rosetta. If I don't get 2007 and make the Intel move, though, I'd be running Fin2004 with Rosetta. It seems from your e-mail that you're using a pre-2007 version (?) with your Intel mini. Do you experience any noticeable slowdowns under Rosetta? TIA. -- Mike On 7/28/06 2:13 PM, Robert Patterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never got off of iKey version 1.0.7, since version 2.x was so roundly trashed in this forum. Does anyone have anything good to say about the latest version of iKey? BTW: I've been able to use iKey 1.0.7 under Rosetta on an Intel MacMini. It works because it is a stand-alone program. So I could continue to use v. 1.0.7 indefinitely. The problem is, it apparently doesn't do sequences. For various arcane reasons, I'm going to need to change some of my menu hit macros from a single menu hit to 3 menu hits in sequence, and I can't see any way to do this in iKey 1.0.7. Perhaps it is time to move up to QuickKeys. -- Michael L. Meyer Music Services *Original Compositions for Any Occasion 602 Windcrest Road *Vocal and Instrumental ArrangingDurham, NC 27713 *Vocal and Instrumental Accompanying919.806.3317 *Computer Engraving and Sequencing 919.349.1809 *Keyboard Music for Weddings and Parties[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Mac keyboard
On 4/12/06 11:47 PM, Mark D Lew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 12, 2006, at 3:51 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: A few days ago I spilled sugared coffee on my keyboard and rendered many keys sticky - a mess. I used this as an excuse to try a new one - a Macally iceKEY. It has short throw, scissor switch based keys - like a laptop keyboard. They don't stick at all, and I find it good for what I like to feel under my fingers. I know, I am an unrepentant gadget whore (maybe gadget John is more apropos), but this one seems to be quite good. I wish I had gotten an IceKey. Someone convinced me that the standard Apple extended would be fine, so I got that instead. The old Apple Extended keyboard from way back when was an excellent keyboard, but the current one is crap. Out of curiosity, I went to the MacAlly website to check it out. Now I'm still curious -- what's the difference between the IceKey and the iKeySlim, other than $40 and some small visual differences? I couldn't really tell from the website. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT - Mac keyboard
Thanks, Chuck. I guess I should have paid more attention to slim keys versus ultra slim keys than I did. It's funny -- most people I talk to hate the feel of laptop keyboards, but I love the feel of my PowerBook. Perhaps I'll look into this for my home computer ... -- M On 4/13/06 10:47 AM, Chuck Israels [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike - Big difference, as far as I can tell: the kind of keys. The iceKey has short throw, nearly flat, keys that are like those on laptop keyboards, rather than keys that are about 3/8ths of an inch high, like most separate computer keyboards, and the keys don't have any tendency to stick. If anything gets between the keys of a normal keyboard, the side of one can rub against the side of the adjacent key, making it sticky. Can't happen with these short throw keys. The switches under the keys are also different. They feel different. You might like it, or you might not. I could understand a preference for a longer keystroke but, if you like the feel of laptop keyboards, you'll like this one. Chuck On Apr 13, 2006, at 5:34 AM, Michael L. Meyer wrote: On 4/12/06 11:47 PM, Mark D Lew [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Apr 12, 2006, at 3:51 PM, Chuck Israels wrote: A few days ago I spilled sugared coffee on my keyboard and rendered many keys sticky - a mess. I used this as an excuse to try a new one - a Macally iceKEY. It has short throw, scissor switch based keys - like a laptop keyboard. They don't stick at all, and I find it good for what I like to feel under my fingers. I know, I am an unrepentant gadget whore (maybe gadget John is more apropos), but this one seems to be quite good. I wish I had gotten an IceKey. Someone convinced me that the standard Apple extended would be fine, so I got that instead. The old Apple Extended keyboard from way back when was an excellent keyboard, but the current one is crap. Out of curiosity, I went to the MacAlly website to check it out. Now I'm still curious -- what's the difference between the IceKey and the iKeySlim, other than $40 and some small visual differences? I couldn't really tell from the website. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] disk formatting?
On 11/30/05 1:13 PM, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As to the point above, tho, I find it hard to believe. 1st-gen. iMacs were the first to have no floppy drive. If they can't burn data to a CD, then they can't copy to removable media at all! Andrew -- You're right -- they can't. I have, in fact, a 2nd-generation iMac (one of the five flavors - mine's tangerine!), and when I bought it, I had to also buy an Imation SuperDrive to be able to save to floppies (and SuperDisks). When I moved to my current iMac G4, it was a pain in the butt to move over all my files, that's for sure. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] Hardware question
On 11/1/05 2:51 PM, Morris Inouye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which separate Number keypad do you use? I use a Kensington Pocket Keypad with my PowerBook. (I had an Amazon Giftcard for $25 and the Keypad cost around $25 with free shipping, so I basically got it for free!) It works nicely, easy plug-n-play into USB, and has two more USB ports in the back, so it works as a hub. This is really good for me, since I usually have one USB port already used up with my little MIDI controller, and I prefer to use a mouse rather than the trackpad. This way I can get all three plugged in to the two USB ports on the PowerBook, and still have one port left over if I need it! The only drawback is, like the one Johannes mentioned, it doesn't have a = (equals) on it. But, the one next to the Delete button on the main keyboard works just fine. Just takes a little getting used to. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] November
On 10/26/05 3:44 PM, dhbailey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When I look at all the various publishers who have been in business a long long time, with all the various engravers' work, the more I find it doesn't matter as long as the music is legible, not hard on the eyes and is clearly laid out so time doesn't have to be wasted by musicians trying to decipher what's meant. The vast differences in appearance between BreitkopfHartel, BooseyHawkes, Schott, European-American, G. Schirmer, E.C. Schirmer, Carl Fischer, Southern Music, plus countless smaller houses, make me realize that clarity is the only issue -- if a font looks good to you and you lay the music out properly, that's what counts. House rules govern much of the appearance issues, and they are as important as (if not more so than) font issues. Thanks for sharing your opinion, David -- I very much agree with your assessment. I suppose what's got me thinking about this more lately is that I've never really had a specific problem with Maestro -- it's always been acceptable for my needs -- but I also haven't been able to shake a certain feeling that there was something better out there. Of course, the fact that I can't put my finger on exactly what it is that gives me that feeling doesn't really help me to figure out a preferred replacement. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] November
All the discussion of fonts recently has got me revisiting my own thoughts about what I use in Finale. I'm also about to get back into some serious arranging for my ensembles at school and thought now would be a good time to get some of the things I've been considering. (Just bought Bill Duncan's Chord Symbols, dontchaknow!) I'm okay with Maestro, but in the past have considered purchasing the November font for a little different look, and (as they put it in their marketing) something a little softer on the eyes. I'm considering it again now, and thought the wisdom of members on this list might have something to share about it. $80 is a significant plunge for me. Has anyone here used it? Have you liked it? Does it have significant limitations? What do you prefer/not prefer in it versus Maestro? I checked out/printed out some of the sample PDFs from their website, and it looks nice, but I'm just worried I'm missing something. Thanks to anyone who's able to weigh in. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] Finale in education in the States (Was: Is this a Finale or Sibelius list?)
On 7/14/05 9:08 AM, Colin Broom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd be interested in hearing more about Finale in education elsewhere. I've always had this (probably largely unfounded) idea that Finale is for the most part still the prominent product in the States, is this true? Colin. Based on my personal experiences, Finale still has the edge -- but the distance is shrinking. (I've personally been a Finale user since 1995 or so -- version 3.0.1). At the first high school I taught at (a district on Long Island, NY) we had a computer music lab of about five computers, with Finale installed -- full version, this was before Allegro and PrintMusic etc. etc. The middle school used a few copies as well. Sibelius was around by then, but I didn't see it anywhere. When I went to grad school (large conservatory within a public university) there were a few Sibelius users here and there, but the overwhelming majority used Finale. The school had officially adopted Finale as well (it was installed on all school computers), and students were even required to complete assignments within Finale for a jazz arranging class I took. At my next high school job there were no music department (or music department accessible) computer labs -- so each teacher chose what they wanted for their personal work. I still used Finale, but the Band teacher used Sibelius, mostly because that's what the guy who did his marching band arrangements (the band director at the other high school in the district) used. I believe Sibelius was used by the majority of elementary/middle school music teachers in the district as well. In my current job, we use Finale at the Upper School (9th-12th grades) level, because I'm the only music teacher at the Upper School, and that's what I wanted. The middle school music teachers have chosen Sibelius, although they don't use it with the kids much yet. Many of my colleagues in the area seem to be leaning towards or already using Sibelius. The learning curve on Sibelius sucked for me because I was already so used to Finale, but if the learning curve is that much better for people first coming into computer notation in general, it makes sense that schools are choosing Sibelius. Besides, it's not like elementary, middle, or high schoolers need professional-quality engraving for their projects ... So, mostly personal/anecdotal experience, but over the 10-12 years of my career, I've seen a gradual shift towards Sibelius in education. I'm also a Mac guy, and this market change seems rather similar to the gradual change from Apple towards PC (esp. Dell) in schools. My $0.02. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Shareware Multitrack Audio App for Mac?
A quick brainstorming-type suggestion, Darcy -- if the saving of audio in the four passes and moving it to Audacity worked, and you just want the multimeasure rests to get out of the way, is it possible for you to configure each pass with one or two instruments from each family playing in combination, rather than families at a time? Then you should come close to having at least one instrument playing at all times within each pass. -- Mike On 6/24/05 3:53 AM, Darcy James Argue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Don, When I saved to audio in four passes (i.e., ww's, brass, perc, and strings) and tried to align them, the tempo drift seemed to happen almost exclusively during long rests -- i.e., the percussion would come in several beats too early. (I'm telling you, it's just like real life!) Luckily, there was no noticeable tempo drift when the GPO instruments were actually playing -- so it was really just a matter of lining up the initial entrances after every (sectional) multi-measure rest. What I'm wondering is whether HP takes into account muted (or non-soloed) instruments when playing back -- especially when it comes to fermattas, etc. If HP only looks at the instruments that have been soloed in the Instrument List, that would explain all those bad entrances! On the one hand, it makes sense for HP to ignore muted/non-soloed instruments -- after all, why take into account staves that aren't set for playback. On the other hand, the lack of a consistent tempo between takes makes aligning multiple passes an incredible chore. I'm going to CC Robert Piéchaud on this -- perhaps he can shed some light on this issue. I really think that HP should abide by a consistent master tempo map no matter which instruments have been soloed or muted. - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 24 Jun 2005, at 3:38 AM, Don Hart wrote: Glad Audacity worked for you - sorry to hear about the other problems. Seems like the barline would be the perfect point of reference to keep that sort of thing from happening. If I had to vote, I'd choose Human Playback as the culprit over GPO. Sometimes, when I play back a section of a file several times consecutively and re-humanize it each time, I wonder if I'm not noticing little differences from playback to playback. If that is what I'm hearing, while not actually looking for discrepancies, it seems the magnitude of those differences would easily be capable of making the mess you had to deal with. Seems like a cumulative problem that gets worse over longer, busier passages. Did you try lining up sections of shorter length? Don Hart on 6/24/05 1:35 AM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks, Don. Audacity was *exactly* what I was looking for. On a related note, though, I was surprised how much tempo drift there was between the two audio tracks I recorded. I know GPO sometimes drops frames when it gets overloaded (resulting in an accel. effect), so I tried splitting the orchestra in four to avoid taxing my poor Mac mini, but that was even worse. I had imagined that if I just got the *beginning* of both files aligned, they would stay aligned for the entire piece, but that was absolutely not the case. In fact, I had to hand-align practically every entrance. (It's almost like Human Playback is a little *too* human when it comes to counting multimeasure rests.) Long story short, it was an incredible PITA to get everything aligned, and required hours of trial-and-error hand-tweaking. So I'm *really* hoping NI get their act together on the Mac side, because this is just ridiculous. (Unfortunately, the move to MacIntel doesn't exactly give them a lot of incentive to optimize their PPC code. Sigh.) - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 24 Jun 2005, at 12:06 AM, Don Hart wrote: Darcy, If I have an accurate understanding of what you need and what this program will do, Audacity is what you're looking for. I haven't yet needed to do what you're doing, but in my time with the program it was very intuitive. My experience observing guys use ProTools seemed to help me get around Audacity. Anyway, you can check it out: http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ I was really impressed; I hope it helps. Don Hart on 6/23/05 10:17 PM, Darcy James Argue at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Okay, it's that time... I need to make an audio demo of an orchestration I've written. As those of you who have GPO for Mac know only too well, my 1.42 GHz Mac mini doesn't have nearly enough horsepower to drive GPO through a large orchestral score ( / 4331 / Timp+Perc / Harp / Solo Vln / Strings). I've done all my usual GPO tricks (*drastically* reduce polyphony on percussion and harp, bypass reverb, set sample rate to 22.05 KHz), but I can still only really get half the orchestra to play back reliably at any given time. So that's exactly what
Re: [Finale] OT: Browsers
On 2/25/05 7:22 PM, Simon Troup [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No support for Safari. They need to do more homework. Actually, it worked fine for me in Safari. I wonder what the difference was ...? -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?
On 1/28/05 1:12 PM, John Howell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 12:40 PM -0500 1/28/05, Michael L. Meyer wrote: If your reply was more light-hearted than that, John, then I apologize -- but it's too hard to read into people's tone of voice on e-mail, and I have had too many listserv experiences (here, the Logic-Users forum, heck even the listserv for my homeowners' association) with people who take far too many liberties while typing on a keyboard that they wouldn't dream of when talking to a person face to face. I did, indeed, intend to be light-hearted, and I appologize to YOU if you took it otherwise. It was not so meant at all. (I should have used a smiley, I guess. 8-) 1936 happens to be the year I was born, so maybe I felt a little proprietary! The only way to copy music was by hand, and I did plenty of it. John All right -- I probably should have known better. I probably am just oversensitive due to some of those other experiences. (Anyone else a member of my homeowner's association? Those people are vicious!) I won't use up any more of people's bandwidth or time with it. Thanks, John. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?
Title: [OT] Curious ... who did it? Hey yall -- Sorry for the OT post, but I figured it was a happy one so no one would mind. I was at rehearsal last night, and got curious. Did anybody on this list engrave the Vaughan Williams Dona Nobis Pacem choral score for Oxford University Press? Im only curious because I wanted to say thanks and congrats ... it is one of the best-looking, easiest-to-read, neatest choral scores Ive ever seen. Which is especially lovely to see considering the difficulty of the actual music. Unless it was a Sibelius person ... I dont subscribe to that list. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] [OT] Curious ... who did it?
On 1/25/05 1:05 PM, Andrew Stiller [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 25, 2005, at 12:31 PM, Dean M. Estabrook wrote: Perhaps it would not be beyond the pale (sp?) to give credit on a score to the engraver, as well as composer, arr., etc. After all, it is artistry, no? There is actually a long historical tradition of doing just that. In a great many pre-computer editions, you will see an engraver credit at the bottom right corner of the last page of music, in the form Joe Blow, eng. There's no reason this practice shouldn't be continued. To the best of my knowledge, such credits are put in by engravers on their own initiative, simply as a way of signing their work. After reading this, Andrew, I checked the back page and found Processed and printed by Halstan Co. Ltd., Amersham, Bucks., England. Maybe it's not computer-engraved? Because it certainly seems so ... all I know is it impressed this mostly-lurker enough to post ... Not that I ever got into the music OR education business for the glory, but it sure would be nice if engraving credit were given with regularity/consistency. I lucked out that the few professional engraving jobs I've worked happened to have a wide distribution -- if my name were in the credits I'm sure it could have helped my business, instead of my having gone back to a day job ... ah, well. I do like my day job. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: Printer question
This is rather late -- I posted my question, then was unable to get back to the computer and the list for a good couple of weeks -- but I just wanted to publicly acknowledge and thank those who were able to reply to my printer question. Differing viewpoints, as always, and lots of food for thought. I'm still not sure what the final decision will be, but I at least have a bit more information and actual user's experiences to go on. Thanks again. -- Mike Michael L. Meyer wrote: Hello all -- I¹ve read some of the printer discussions in the past, and thought I might run this question by you all. Does anyone have/what do you think of the HP Deskjet 9650? I¹m looking for a printer that gives as close to laser-quality output as possible (but I by no means do anything that requires archival-quality or publishable stuff) and will print on large-size paper (at least 11x17, although the 9650 brochure says it goes up to 13x19). At the same time, this printer is for use in our home, and my wife and I would like to be able to print out digital photos on it as well. The HP Deskjet 9650 seems to fulfill both of those needs, and I usually see it on sale for $250 or $300 at the local OfficeMax or Staples. Are there any alarms I should know about, for those of you who have used it? Does anyone have a better product in mind in a similar price range ($350 at the absolute upper-most limit)? Thanks in advance for anyone¹s suggestions. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2 and 4 hand(s) on One Piano
And, of course, there's the P.D.Q. Bach pieces that require four hands plus that of the page-turner ... I believe the Liebeslieder Polkas make use of that arrangement. -- Mike On 9/21/04 9:17 AM, Dennis Bathory-Kitsz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 05:32 AM 9/21/04 -0700, Lynn Gold wrote: Hope the three people are really skinny and have bathed before the performance. g,d,rlh Actually, I have a piece sort of like that -- The Lithuanian Liniment March, for piano five hands. It makes quite a sight as the lowest part is played with the right hand by a pianist sitting on the very edge of the bench. Accidents may happen, but not at any of its performances (yet). http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/music/mp3/pianostrils/lithuanian_linimen t_march.m3u Dennis ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
[Finale] OT: Printer question
Title: OT: Printer question Hello all -- Ive read some of the printer discussions in the past, and thought I might run this question by you all. Does anyone have/what do you think of the HP Deskjet 9650? Im looking for a printer that gives as close to laser-quality output as possible (but I by no means do anything that requires archival-quality or publishable stuff) and will print on large-size paper (at least 11x17, although the 9650 brochure says it goes up to 13x19). At the same time, this printer is for use in our home, and my wife and I would like to be able to print out digital photos on it as well. The HP Deskjet 9650 seems to fulfill both of those needs, and I usually see it on sale for $250 or $300 at the local OfficeMax or Staples. Are there any alarms I should know about, for those of you who have used it? Does anyone have a better product in mind in a similar price range ($350 at the absolute upper-most limit)? Thanks in advance for anyones suggestions. -- Mike ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] OT: OS X RAM on original iMac
Paul -- I never installed OSX, so I can't help you there, but I did successfully upgrade the RAM twice on my machine. Catch -- mine wasn't the original Bondi blue, but the next-generation, the five flavors iMac -- mine was a tangerine 266 G3, still tray-loading CD. I'm assuming the two models were very similar. Upgrading the RAM was not simple, but if you follow the instructions they give you, it is relatively easy to accomplish. And like I said, I did it twice during my time with it (have since moved on), and both times it worked just fine. Hope this helps. Sorry I can't answer about OSX. -- Mike On 6/29/04 3:03 PM, Paul Hayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please respond off-list if you have: 1. successfully installed any version of Mac OS X on an original Bondi Blue iMac (233 MHz G3, tray-loading CD), or 2. successfully installed additional RAM. I may need to do one or both of these things to my sister's iMac, and I'd like to know if #1 is feasible (given processor and RAM limitations), and how hard #2 is. Thanks very much. Paul Hayden ___ Finale mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
