Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
If you've kept a backup copy of the original Finale 2007, it will open the files created with 2007a. On 19 Jan 2007, at 09:40, dc wrote: I was just about to send a message to the list on the question of hyphens, because they are indeed messed up in 2007a: some of them appear on screen but not on the print-out; worse, at the end of a system, there are hyphens missing when there is plenty of room. Has anyone contacted MM about this? What do they have to say? I'm in a mess, because I have to deliver files started in 2007! How does one go back to 2007 from 2007a? Thanks, Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
I'm not sure, but I think that hyphens in 2006a work as they do in 2004. In 2006b a new bug appeared, that produced two undesirable effects: 1. When syllables got closer than a certain amount, the hyphens were too far to the right. 2. Hyphens no longer disappeared when the syllables were moved very close together. This bug is still present in 2007 (original version). MakeMusic tried to correct the bug in 2007a, but the cure was worse than the illness: as you noticed, hyphens now disappear when they shouldn't, and if there is a hyphen at the end of a system, it's too near to the syllable it follows. If you don't need very tight lyric spacing, 2007 (original version) should produce acceptable results. On 19 Jan 2007, at 13:22, dc wrote: Hi Michael, To get correct hyphen placement suitable for a serious publisher, you need to go back to 2006a or earlier. I've just gone back to 2007 from 2007a, and this does solve some of the problems with hyphens, but not all. Could you tell me the improvements I could expect from 2006a over 2007 regarding hyphens (I downgraded directly from 2004 to 2007, so I don't know how 2006 behaves)? Hyphens have been a major problem since I started using Finale. It's quite pathetic to think that not only the old problems aren't solved, but each new version seems to introduce new bugs... Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] 2007b is out
Did the 2006c update fix the hyphens, or was 2006c just a Mac thing? Was there any major fix in 2006b compared to 2006a? I may want to revert since I have a vocal project coming up. Thanx, Jim From: dc Sent: Fri 19-Jan-07 9:17 To: finale@shsu.edu; finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] 2007b is out Michael Cook écrit: I'm not sure, but I think that hyphens in 2006a work as they do in 2004. In 2006b a new bug appeared, that produced two undesirable effects: 1. When syllables got closer than a certain amount, the hyphens were too far to the right. 2. Hyphens no longer disappeared when the syllables were moved very close together. This bug is still present in 2007 (original version). MakeMusic tried to correct the bug in 2007a, but the cure was worse than the illness: as you noticed, hyphens now disappear when they shouldn't, and if there is a hyphen at the end of a system, it's too near to the syllable it follows. If you don't need very tight lyric spacing, 2007 (original version) should produce acceptable results. Many thanks, Michael, for the details! Much appreciated. I'll stick with 2007 for now (I don't have much choice). But I find all this quite amazing! Why aren't these changes documented in the updates? Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] 2007b is out
There was no change that I remember. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 3:55 PM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] 2007b is out Hey Allen, Really? Hmm. That's very mysterious. Was there any change to the installer behavior after the initial release of Finale 2007a? I grabbed Fin2007a as soon as it was available, and I definitely ended up with two separate apps after running the installer, one called Finale 2007 and one called Finale 2007a. What happened when everyone else ran the Finale 2007a updater? Did you end up with separate Finale 2007 and Finale 2007a apps, or just a single, updated app named Finale 2007. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:37 PM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Huh? I just ran the Finale 2007a installer and it installed an application called Finale 2007, and the about box says 2007a.r3 for Macintosh Same with the updater. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:44 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] 2007b is out Hey Allen, I'm afraid this isn't how it works now -- the installer (confusingly) left Finale 2007a in place, and created a new application called just Finale 2007. At first, I wasn't sure if the installer had even worked. Since the Fin2007a installer leaves the original Fin2007 in place, I think a lot of users will be confused about this. I'm all for maintenance updates replacing the earlier versions instead of creating a second (or third, or fourth) copy of the app, but the behavior needs to be consistent and clear. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 18 Jan 2007, at 11:14 AM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Darcy Said: I would actually be in favor of NOT appending a, b, etc to the filename, provided this was done consistently, and that the Finale maintenance updates would actually UPDATE the app instead of creating a duplicate. This is how it works now. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
At 08:13 PM 1/17/2007 -0800, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote: Nice one, Dennis -- but really? What's the story? If so, I hope the dam is 100 feet DOWNSTREAM from the house! And in the meanwhile, I'll try to refrain from whistling Coates' Dambusters March. Please do. :) Yes, our house is downstream and the dam is upstream, an inconvenient situation. Pix on the bottom of this page taken from the edge of the house: http://maltedmedia.com/people/bathory/waam-20060611.html It gets some scary. Our dock was dislodged last year and swept a mile downstream a few weeks ago. Next summer the dam is supposed to come down after 80 years of doing nothing (it was built just before the legendary flood of 1927, and never used) and the streambed restored to a less threatening shape. Somewhat OT: Finished the rush Finale job after considerable effort (a score that had been converted from Finale ca. 1994), went to Chamber Music America with little to show for it, and am now back home working on the WAAM project. Dennis Please participate in my 2007 project: http://maltedmedia.com/waam/ My We Are All Mozart blog: http://maltedmedia.com/bathory/waam-blog.html ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] 2007b is out
Darcy Said: I would actually be in favor of NOT appending a, b, etc to the filename, provided this was done consistently, and that the Finale maintenance updates would actually UPDATE the app instead of creating a duplicate. This is how it works now. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
Hey Allen, I'm afraid this isn't how it works now -- the installer (confusingly) left Finale 2007a in place, and created a new application called just Finale 2007. At first, I wasn't sure if the installer had even worked. Since the Fin2007a installer leaves the original Fin2007 in place, I think a lot of users will be confused about this. I'm all for maintenance updates replacing the earlier versions instead of creating a second (or third, or fourth) copy of the app, but the behavior needs to be consistent and clear. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 18 Jan 2007, at 11:14 AM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Darcy Said: I would actually be in favor of NOT appending a, b, etc to the filename, provided this was done consistently, and that the Finale maintenance updates would actually UPDATE the app instead of creating a duplicate. This is how it works now. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
RE: [Finale] 2007b is out
Huh? I just ran the Finale 2007a installer and it installed an application called Finale 2007, and the about box says 2007a.r3 for Macintosh Same with the updater. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:44 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] 2007b is out Hey Allen, I'm afraid this isn't how it works now -- the installer (confusingly) left Finale 2007a in place, and created a new application called just Finale 2007. At first, I wasn't sure if the installer had even worked. Since the Fin2007a installer leaves the original Fin2007 in place, I think a lot of users will be confused about this. I'm all for maintenance updates replacing the earlier versions instead of creating a second (or third, or fourth) copy of the app, but the behavior needs to be consistent and clear. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 18 Jan 2007, at 11:14 AM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Darcy Said: I would actually be in favor of NOT appending a, b, etc to the filename, provided this was done consistently, and that the Finale maintenance updates would actually UPDATE the app instead of creating a duplicate. This is how it works now. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
Hey Allen, Really? Hmm. That's very mysterious. Was there any change to the installer behavior after the initial release of Finale 2007a? I grabbed Fin2007a as soon as it was available, and I definitely ended up with two separate apps after running the installer, one called Finale 2007 and one called Finale 2007a. What happened when everyone else ran the Finale 2007a updater? Did you end up with separate Finale 2007 and Finale 2007a apps, or just a single, updated app named Finale 2007. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:37 PM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Huh? I just ran the Finale 2007a installer and it installed an application called Finale 2007, and the about box says 2007a.r3 for Macintosh Same with the updater. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:44 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] 2007b is out Hey Allen, I'm afraid this isn't how it works now -- the installer (confusingly) left Finale 2007a in place, and created a new application called just Finale 2007. At first, I wasn't sure if the installer had even worked. Since the Fin2007a installer leaves the original Fin2007 in place, I think a lot of users will be confused about this. I'm all for maintenance updates replacing the earlier versions instead of creating a second (or third, or fourth) copy of the app, but the behavior needs to be consistent and clear. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 18 Jan 2007, at 11:14 AM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Darcy Said: I would actually be in favor of NOT appending a, b, etc to the filename, provided this was done consistently, and that the Finale maintenance updates would actually UPDATE the app instead of creating a duplicate. This is how it works now. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
Darcy James Argue / 2007/01/18 / 04:54 PM wrote: What happened when everyone else ran the Finale 2007a updater? Did you end up with separate Finale 2007 and Finale 2007a apps, or just a single, updated app named Finale 2007. As far as I remember, it has been changed to the way Allen mentioned. I remember it was different from pre-2007. -- - Hiro Hiroaki Honshuku, A-NO-NE Music, Boston, MA http://a-no-ne.com http://anonemusic.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
After I ran the Mac 2007a updater, I ended up with one app called Finale 2007, which on closer inspection was indeed the updated version. I was happy to have kept a backup copy of the original 2007 version: I renamed the updated version Finale 2007a and copied the backup copy of 2007 back into the Finale folder. When I ran the 2007b updater it replaced the version called Finale 2007 with the newer version, leaving untouched the one I had renamed as 2007a. Now I have all three versions of Finale 2007. I am careful to keep these different versions because a newer version may introduce a newer bug. In the case of Finale 2007a, MakeMusic tried to correct a hyphen bug (hyphens not disappearing when syllables are close together) and in fact made matters worse, even introducing a new hyphen bug. 2007b hasn't made any change in this respect. Hyphens are a disaster in 2007a and 2007b, and in 2007 they're just about usable. To get correct hyphen placement suitable for a serious publisher, you need to go back to 2006a or earlier. On 18 Jan 2007, at 22:54, Darcy James Argue wrote: Hey Allen, Really? Hmm. That's very mysterious. Was there any change to the installer behavior after the initial release of Finale 2007a? I grabbed Fin2007a as soon as it was available, and I definitely ended up with two separate apps after running the installer, one called Finale 2007 and one called Finale 2007a. What happened when everyone else ran the Finale 2007a updater? Did you end up with separate Finale 2007 and Finale 2007a apps, or just a single, updated app named Finale 2007. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
I am a bit surprised by this. I noticed as soon as I installed 2007a that only one version remained on my finale folder and that I didn't need to copy all my iKey shortcuts to a newly created app (2007a). It still read as 2007 except if I click on “about Finale” on the Finale menu. This was great news to me. I also grabbed 2007a as soon as it was announced. Éric Le 07-01-18 à 16:54, Darcy James Argue a écrit : Hey Allen, Really? Hmm. That's very mysterious. Was there any change to the installer behavior after the initial release of Finale 2007a? I grabbed Fin2007a as soon as it was available, and I definitely ended up with two separate apps after running the installer, one called Finale 2007 and one called Finale 2007a. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
On Jan 18, 2007, at 1:54 PM, Darcy James Argue wrote: What happened when everyone else ran the Finale 2007a updater? Did you end up with separate Finale 2007 and Finale 2007a apps, or just a single, updated app named Finale 2007. Hi Darcy, I think I ended up with a single 2007 version in my applications folder, but had to reassign my QuickKeys shortcuts to 2007a r3 or whatever it was called - not sure I remember this correctly, but that's what I think happened. Chuck Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 18 Jan 2007, at 12:37 PM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Huh? I just ran the Finale 2007a installer and it installed an application called Finale 2007, and the about box says 2007a.r3 for Macintosh Same with the updater. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darcy James Argue Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:44 AM To: finale@shsu.edu Subject: Re: [Finale] 2007b is out Hey Allen, I'm afraid this isn't how it works now -- the installer (confusingly) left Finale 2007a in place, and created a new application called just Finale 2007. At first, I wasn't sure if the installer had even worked. Since the Fin2007a installer leaves the original Fin2007 in place, I think a lot of users will be confused about this. I'm all for maintenance updates replacing the earlier versions instead of creating a second (or third, or fourth) copy of the app, but the behavior needs to be consistent and clear. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 18 Jan 2007, at 11:14 AM, Fisher, Allen wrote: Darcy Said: I would actually be in favor of NOT appending a, b, etc to the filename, provided this was done consistently, and that the Finale maintenance updates would actually UPDATE the app instead of creating a duplicate. This is how it works now. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
I hope those who start using this will post reports. And I concur in hoping for a few more improvements besides the listed ones. Chuck On Jan 17, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Randolph Peters wrote: A heads up for the group. Finale 2007b is out. From the VersionTracker site: What's new in this version: The Rebar Music functionality - used in Band-in-a-Box® Auto Harmonizing and other features - no longer condenses empty measures. Finale 2007b also contains all the improvements found in Finale 2007a. I sure hope there is more to it than just this! -Randolph Peters ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale Chuck Israels 230 North Garden Terrace Bellingham, WA 98225-5836 phone (360) 671-3402 fax (360) 676-6055 www.chuckisraels.com ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
At 06:35 PM 1/17/2007, Randolph Peters wrote: Finale 2007b is out. From the VersionTracker site: What's new in this version: The Rebar Music functionality - used in Band-in-a-Box® Auto Harmonizing and other features - no longer condenses empty measures. Finale 2007b also contains all the improvements found in Finale 2007a. I sure hope there is more to it than just this! Nope, that looks like about it: http://downloads2.makemusic.com/finale/2007b/Finale2007bWinReadMe.pdf http://downloads2.makemusic.com/finale/2007b/Finale2007bMacReadMe.pdf It sure would have been nice if they'd done a little more with this. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
The other kind of annoying thing is that the installer creates an app called Finale 2007 instead of Finale 2007b, breaking a longtime Finale convention. What happens if you upgrade directly from Fin2007 (not Fin2007a)? Does it replace the old version? I would actually be in favor of NOT appending a, b, etc to the filename, provided this was done consistently, and that the Finale maintenance updates would actually UPDATE the app instead of creating a duplicate. I know some people on the list don't like that idea, but since that's how every other piece of software on the market behaves, I don't have a lot of sympathy for that view. If someone *really* wants to preserve their copy of Fin2007a before upgrading to Fin2007b, that's easily done. But it's always confusing and annoying for Mac users to have to replace the Finale 2007 icon in their Dock or launcher with the more recent version, and update their QuicKeys/iKey sets to recognize the new app name, etc, every time a maintenance update is released. I don't know of any other software company that issues a maintenance update that leaves the original, non-updated app in place. Cheers, - Darcy - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Brooklyn, NY On 17 Jan 2007, at 7:16 PM, Aaron Sherber wrote: At 06:35 PM 1/17/2007, Randolph Peters wrote: Finale 2007b is out. From the VersionTracker site: What's new in this version: The Rebar Music functionality - used in Band-in-a-Box® Auto Harmonizing and other features - no longer condenses empty measures. Finale 2007b also contains all the improvements found in Finale 2007a. I sure hope there is more to it than just this! Nope, that looks like about it: http://downloads2.makemusic.com/finale/2007b/ Finale2007bWinReadMe.pdf http://downloads2.makemusic.com/finale/2007b/ Finale2007bMacReadMe.pdf It sure would have been nice if they'd done a little more with this. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
At 07:44 PM 1/17/2007, Darcy James Argue wrote: The other kind of annoying thing is that the installer creates an app called Finale 2007 instead of Finale 2007b, breaking a longtime Finale convention. This is a Mac thing, FYI. Every single version of WinFin has always been called just 'Finale.exe'. I don't know of any other software company that issues a maintenance update that leaves the original, non-updated app in place. I'm glad to hear you say that, Darcy. I had seen some of the complaints here before, and I thought it was just a Mac thing -- that Mac upgraders generally leave the original app in place. They certainly don't on Win, and never have. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
I should add that the other really stupid thing about Fin2007b is that they seem to have wrapped it up with the Fin2007a updater, which is no longer available on the site. I know that this makes it a little easier for those who have not yet updated to 2007a, but those of us who have now have to download an enormous update (68MB Win / 104MB Mac) and apply it just to get a minor update. I guess if you don't need the Rebar Music functionality you might want to avoid this update. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
Thanks for that head's up, Aaron.I'm not about to go through yet another gigantic download after the amount of time 2007a took. And yeah, dialup does suck for those of us with no alternative One might have thought our little pals at MM might have considered a more elegant update, or at least one worth the time, all things considered. Rebar functionality?Who needs it!? Best, Les Les Marsden Founding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Music and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html http://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html - Original Message - From: Aaron Sherber To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] 2007b is out I should add that the other really stupid thing about Fin2007b is that they seem to have wrapped it up with the Fin2007a updater, which is no longer available on the site. I know that this makes it a little easier for those who have not yet updated to 2007a, but those of us who have now have to download an enormous update (68MB Win / 104MB Mac) and apply it just to get a minor update. I guess if you don't need the Rebar Music functionality you might want to avoid this update. Aaron. ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
At 06:32 PM 1/17/2007 -0800, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote: Rebar functionality? Who needs it!? You wouldn't say that if you had a cracked dam 100 feet from the house like we do. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
Re: [Finale] 2007b is out
Nice one, Dennis -- but really? What's the story? If so, I hope the dam is 100 feet DOWNSTREAM from the house! And in the meanwhile, I'll try to refrain from whistling Coates' Dambusters March. Best, Les Les Marsden Founding Music Director and Conductor, The Mariposa Symphony Orchestra Music and Mariposa? Ah, Paradise!!! http://arts-mariposa.org/symphony.html http://www.sierratel.com/mcf/nprc/mso.htm http://www.geocities.com/~jbenz/lesbio.html - Original Message - From: Dennis Bathory-Kitsz To: finale@shsu.edu Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 6:55 PM Subject: Re: [Finale] 2007b is out At 06:32 PM 1/17/2007 -0800, Mariposa Symphony Orchestra wrote: Rebar functionality? Who needs it!? You wouldn't say that if you had a cracked dam 100 feet from the house like we do. :) Dennis ___ Finale mailing list Finale@shsu.edu http://lists.shsu.edu/mailman/listinfo/finale
