Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
of course :) thanks Chafic and David.. Chafic Kazoun wrote: From what I know (And I am no expert on the Flash Player). The way the JIT process works, not everything is actually always JITed. Bytecode that is executed once may not tget JITed at all. But code that is accessed multiple times or deemed as a performance botleneck will get JITed. The main motivation behind this would be to reduce application perceived performance by interpreting some code rather than Jitting which would alleviate the user from having to wait for the JIT process to complete. This is most apparent on application startup where if the user had to wait for everything to go through the entire JIT process, things would just seem slow. You see this with the Java runtime although Sun has improved this over time. HTH Chafic ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
Sweet! Thanks for the info. Kevin N. Nicolas Cannasse wrote: Here are some things I've been wondering about Actionscript 3.0s compiler and runtime engines: I'm assuming AS 3.0 compiles to a bytecode. What kind of bytecode does it compile to? Is it more like Java/.NET CLR, or more like Mozilla's Spidermonkey compiler? I don't know about SpiderMonkey, but AS3 bytecode is similar to Java one. It's actually more complicated since there is several way to access the properties (using prototype, traits or slots). Does the compiled code get recompiled during runtime to machine code (like a JIT compiler) or does it get interpreted? Some Adobe presentation on the subjet was saying that all the code get JIT'ed, except the $iinit and $cinit functions which are the one defining the classes and initializing their static variables. Also, how does the compiler deal with typing? Statically typed, compiled languages usually have the type set in stone at compile time whereas dynamically typed, interpreted languages like javascript and php can do type coercion at runtime on the fly. Which one does the Actionscript 3.0 runtime do? Does it do both depending on whether the type is static or dynamic? The complete class structure with type is stored into the Flash9 SWF. Then local (per-function) type-inference is performed to check the types coherency. There is some bytecode options that perform type-casting. For instance everytime a value is stored into an untyped variable, the opcode 0x82 is forgetting about the original value type. This makes things actually pretty difficult for other languages with different type system to be compiled to Flash9 bytecode, but I could succeed in doing it for haXe (http://haxe.org). I started documenting the Flash9 file format on http://osflash.org/flash9, you can start reading there, but only the haXe swf library sources are containing the complete specification : http://cvs.motion-twin.com/horde/chora/browse.php?rt=ocamlf=swflib Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
Thanks for the valuable information Nicolas. I strongly think you should write a book on Flash Player internals! This would be the missing piece for mastering the flash platform... I really miss this kind of information and a good dummie introduction to them (There's isn't such a book available...) Cheers, Marcelo On 8/21/06, Kevin Newman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sweet! Thanks for the info. Kevin N. Nicolas Cannasse wrote: Here are some things I've been wondering about Actionscript 3.0s compiler and runtime engines: I'm assuming AS 3.0 compiles to a bytecode. What kind of bytecode does it compile to? Is it more like Java/.NET CLR, or more like Mozilla's Spidermonkey compiler? I don't know about SpiderMonkey, but AS3 bytecode is similar to Java one. It's actually more complicated since there is several way to access the properties (using prototype, traits or slots). Does the compiled code get recompiled during runtime to machine code (like a JIT compiler) or does it get interpreted? Some Adobe presentation on the subjet was saying that all the code get JIT'ed, except the $iinit and $cinit functions which are the one defining the classes and initializing their static variables. Also, how does the compiler deal with typing? Statically typed, compiled languages usually have the type set in stone at compile time whereas dynamically typed, interpreted languages like javascript and php can do type coercion at runtime on the fly. Which one does the Actionscript 3.0 runtime do? Does it do both depending on whether the type is static or dynamic? The complete class structure with type is stored into the Flash9 SWF. Then local (per-function) type-inference is performed to check the types coherency. There is some bytecode options that perform type-casting. For instance everytime a value is stored into an untyped variable, the opcode 0x82 is forgetting about the original value type. This makes things actually pretty difficult for other languages with different type system to be compiled to Flash9 bytecode, but I could succeed in doing it for haXe (http://haxe.org). I started documenting the Flash9 file format on http://osflash.org/flash9, you can start reading there, but only the haXe swf library sources are containing the complete specification : http://cvs.motion-twin.com/horde/chora/browse.php?rt=ocamlf=swflib Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
Does the compiled code get recompiled during runtime to machine code (like a JIT compiler) or does it get interpreted? Some Adobe presentation on the subjet was saying that all the code get JIT'ed, except the $iinit and $cinit functions which are the one defining the classes and initializing their static variables. I just read that the other day and was wondering why? Personally I cant really think of why constructors and initialization should be interpreted and not JIT'ed but im sure someone can think of good reasons. this is the paper if anyone is interested : http://www.onflex.org/ACDS/AS3TuningInsideAVM2JIT.pdf thanks, Martin ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
On 8/21/06, Martin Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the compiled code get recompiled during runtime to machine code (like a JIT compiler) or does it get interpreted? Some Adobe presentation on the subjet was saying that all the code get JIT'ed, except the $iinit and $cinit functions which are the one defining the classes and initializing their static variables. I just read that the other day and was wondering why? Personally I cant really think of why constructors and initialization should be interpreted and not JIT'ed but im sure someone can think of good reasons. Perhaps because they are only run once? From what I understand, JIT is a small penalty the first time, then each successive use is sped up. If there are no successive uses, then it will be a net loss to use JIT. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
From what I know (And I am no expert on the Flash Player). The way the JIT process works, not everything is actually always JITed. Bytecode that is executed once may not tget JITed at all. But code that is accessed multiple times or deemed as a performance botleneck will get JITed. The main motivation behind this would be to reduce application perceived performance by interpreting some code rather than Jitting which would alleviate the user from having to wait for the JIT process to complete. This is most apparent on application startup where if the user had to wait for everything to go through the entire JIT process, things would just seem slow. You see this with the Java runtime although Sun has improved this over time. HTH Chafic http://www.rewindlife.com On Aug 21, 2006, at 5:40 PM, David Rorex wrote: On 8/21/06, Martin Wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does the compiled code get recompiled during runtime to machine code (like a JIT compiler) or does it get interpreted? Some Adobe presentation on the subjet was saying that all the code get JIT'ed, except the $iinit and $cinit functions which are the one defining the classes and initializing their static variables. I just read that the other day and was wondering why? Personally I cant really think of why constructors and initialization should be interpreted and not JIT'ed but im sure someone can think of good reasons. Perhaps because they are only run once? From what I understand, JIT is a small penalty the first time, then each successive use is sped up. If there are no successive uses, then it will be a net loss to use JIT. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
Here are some things I've been wondering about Actionscript 3.0s compiler and runtime engines: I'm assuming AS 3.0 compiles to a bytecode. What kind of bytecode does it compile to? Is it more like Java/.NET CLR, or more like Mozilla's Spidermonkey compiler? I don't know about SpiderMonkey, but AS3 bytecode is similar to Java one. It's actually more complicated since there is several way to access the properties (using prototype, traits or slots). Does the compiled code get recompiled during runtime to machine code (like a JIT compiler) or does it get interpreted? Some Adobe presentation on the subjet was saying that all the code get JIT'ed, except the $iinit and $cinit functions which are the one defining the classes and initializing their static variables. Also, how does the compiler deal with typing? Statically typed, compiled languages usually have the type set in stone at compile time whereas dynamically typed, interpreted languages like javascript and php can do type coercion at runtime on the fly. Which one does the Actionscript 3.0 runtime do? Does it do both depending on whether the type is static or dynamic? The complete class structure with type is stored into the Flash9 SWF. Then local (per-function) type-inference is performed to check the types coherency. There is some bytecode options that perform type-casting. For instance everytime a value is stored into an untyped variable, the opcode 0x82 is forgetting about the original value type. This makes things actually pretty difficult for other languages with different type system to be compiled to Flash9 bytecode, but I could succeed in doing it for haXe (http://haxe.org). I started documenting the Flash9 file format on http://osflash.org/flash9, you can start reading there, but only the haXe swf library sources are containing the complete specification : http://cvs.motion-twin.com/horde/chora/browse.php?rt=ocamlf=swflib Nicolas ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
Re: [Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
Anybody? Kevin N. Kevin Newman wrote: Here are some things I've been wondering about Actionscript 3.0s compiler and runtime engines: I'm assuming AS 3.0 compiles to a bytecode. What kind of bytecode does it compile to? Is it more like Java/.NET CLR, or more like Mozilla's Spidermonkey compiler? Does the compiled code get recompiled during runtime to machine code (like a JIT compiler) or does it get interpreted? Also, how does the compiler deal with typing? Statically typed, compiled languages usually have the type set in stone at compile time whereas dynamically typed, interpreted languages like javascript and php can do type coercion at runtime on the fly. Which one does the Actionscript 3.0 runtime do? Does it do both depending on whether the type is static or dynamic? Thanks, and please correct anything that I may have written if it is not accurate. :-) Kevin N. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
[Flashcoders] Actionscript 3.0 compiler Qs
Here are some things I've been wondering about Actionscript 3.0s compiler and runtime engines: I'm assuming AS 3.0 compiles to a bytecode. What kind of bytecode does it compile to? Is it more like Java/.NET CLR, or more like Mozilla's Spidermonkey compiler? Does the compiled code get recompiled during runtime to machine code (like a JIT compiler) or does it get interpreted? Also, how does the compiler deal with typing? Statically typed, compiled languages usually have the type set in stone at compile time whereas dynamically typed, interpreted languages like javascript and php can do type coercion at runtime on the fly. Which one does the Actionscript 3.0 runtime do? Does it do both depending on whether the type is static or dynamic? Thanks, and please correct anything that I may have written if it is not accurate. :-) Kevin N. ___ Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com To change your subscription options or search the archive: http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders Brought to you by Fig Leaf Software Premier Authorized Adobe Consulting and Training http://www.figleaf.com http://training.figleaf.com
