Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
I guess alot of us (including myself) have gotten used to the global-thing-in-disguise from using it that way in Flash and kept doing so in Flex. Personally I don't have a problem with it and I use my own MVC-type architecture that also includes a Singleton Model. The thing that bothers me about Cairngorm is the name ModelLocator as outlined in the article. ModelLocator doesn't locate models, it IS the model. ARP has a ModelLocator that does locate models and my guess is that's where they borrowed the name and it kinda stuck around. If memory servers me right, to get to the Model you want in ARP you'd use something like: var cart:ShoppingCart = ModelLocator.getInstance().getModel(shoppingCart); cart.total = 458.5; Cairngorm also doesn't have an events package, but rather stores their main Event class in control com.adobe.cairngorm.control.CairngormEvent com.adobe.cairngorm.control.CairngormEventDispatcher I'd prefer: com.adobe.cairngorm.events.CairngormEvent com.adobe.cairngorm.events.CairngormEventDispatcher which is more inline with the Flex framework And one more thing I dislike is the 1 on 1 mapping of Events and Commands. From what I've seen in their docs and samples they use a different Event class for every Command, which IMO makes no sense. GetUserEvent UpdateUserEvent DeleteUserEvent CreateUserEvent And the static constants are stored someplace else, can't remember but think it was the Controller (that extends FrontController). Rather than having 4 Event classes for each Command I prefer 1 Event class: UserEvent which has as many static constants as required: public static const GET_USER:String = getUser; public static const UPATE_USER:String = updateUser; public static const DELETE_USER:String = deleteUser; public static const CREATE_USER:String = createUser; Again this is inline with what is already present in the Flex framework: MouseEvent.CLICK MouseEvent.MOUSE_DOWN MouseEvent.MOUSE_UP etc.. Think that's about it.. regards, Muzak - Original Message - From: Merrill, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:11 PM Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash Read the article, some good, some bad. What are your thoughts on the article's baching of Cairngorm's ModelLocator? The he says its really a global var in disguise, and I understand that, but I still find it very handy - maybe it makes it somewhat tighter coupled to the model, but I use the same implementation of it in non-Cairgorm projects just because it's so handy. I can see where it wouldn't be good in a coding environment where you have to loosely couple everything, but it also seems to have its uses. Any thoughts on that? Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Hi Jason, i only saw this post now, not sure if it was directed at me or at the list in general or both, but anyway: i agree the naming conventions could be better, but I don't mind using some kind of locator object. I posted previously about my approach I think. I use an ApplicationRegistry where I register my objects: _appReg.register (new ...Model()); _appReg.register (new ...View()); etc and I do that for all key application objects such as services, models etc when I need them I do: _appReg.getRegistree (IFooBarModel); in other words, I locate my objects by interface (or concrete classes depending on how abstract we need to get). Usually I even wrap that using an objectbroker so the previous line becomes: _ob.getFooBarModel():IFooBarModel It separates creation from usage, I don't have to import anything except the broker and works wonders while refactoring. I've used in on several projects and have to run into downsides yet. It has not harmed reusability, managability etc etc, it has helped improve my coding speed by far. greetz JC On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Merrill, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the article, some good, some bad. What are your thoughts on the article's baching of Cairngorm's ModelLocator? The he says its really a global var in disguise, and I understand that, but I still find it very handy - maybe it makes it somewhat tighter coupled to the model, but I use the same implementation of it in non-Cairgorm projects just because it's so handy. I can see where it wouldn't be good in a coding environment where you have to loosely couple everything, but it also seems to have its uses. Any thoughts on that? Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD Interested in Flash Platform technologies? Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community Interested in innovative ideas in Learning? Check out the Innovative Learning Blog and subscribe. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
While I have no authority to defend why, I'm leaning toward PureMVC. From what I remember it's very similar to whats being described here. Events are hijacked and all commands are registered in one place which can be triggered from anywhere. Of course I'll have to put my money where my mouth is before I can truly judge it. You guys don't have to post links but could you describe some of the projects you've worked on where Flex was an easy choice over Flash? On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Hans Wichman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jason, i only saw this post now, not sure if it was directed at me or at the list in general or both, but anyway: i agree the naming conventions could be better, but I don't mind using some kind of locator object. I posted previously about my approach I think. I use an ApplicationRegistry where I register my objects: _appReg.register (new ...Model()); _appReg.register (new ...View()); etc and I do that for all key application objects such as services, models etc when I need them I do: _appReg.getRegistree (IFooBarModel); in other words, I locate my objects by interface (or concrete classes depending on how abstract we need to get). Usually I even wrap that using an objectbroker so the previous line becomes: _ob.getFooBarModel():IFooBarModel It separates creation from usage, I don't have to import anything except the broker and works wonders while refactoring. I've used in on several projects and have to run into downsides yet. It has not harmed reusability, managability etc etc, it has helped improve my coding speed by far. greetz JC On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Merrill, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the article, some good, some bad. What are your thoughts on the article's baching of Cairngorm's ModelLocator? The he says its really a global var in disguise, and I understand that, but I still find it very handy - maybe it makes it somewhat tighter coupled to the model, but I use the same implementation of it in non-Cairgorm projects just because it's so handy. I can see where it wouldn't be good in a coding environment where you have to loosely couple everything, but it also seems to have its uses. Any thoughts on that? Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD Interested in Flash Platform technologies? Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community Interested in innovative ideas in Learning? Check out the Innovative Learning Blog and subscribe. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- --Joel Stransky stranskydesign.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
You guys don't have to post links but could you describe some of the projects you've worked on where Flex was an easy choice over Flash? We built a social networking application that had several UI elements - a profile section of the person, a list of knowledge and skills that could be filtered, search capabilities, etc., and the main this was a visual node view of your network - its dynamic - you can reposition things, thing animated, nodes have submenus, draw regions with the mouse, etc. Uses C# Webservices to communicate to the database. Its a mix of MXML layout, Actionscript logic, and loaded .swf files produced with Flash CS3 (for the fancy UI animation stuff that would have been hard to do in Flex). Worked really well, and we used Visual Source Safe so we were able to work as a team on the project - worked really well. We used FlashDevleop + Flex SDK. Would have been 10x more work to do this project in purely Flash or purely Actionscript. Another RIA I worked on was a web-based WYSIWYG performance support generator tool. Used Webservices to save and produce projects. Users could upload and position media, create menus, links, etc. Gave them a .zip of the files to put on their webserver when it was finished. It was done in Flash 8 + AS2. I wish I had Flex back then, it would have saved me a ton of work. Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD Interested in Flash Platform technologies? Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community Interested in innovative ideas in Learning? Check out the Innovative Learning Blog and subscribe. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joel Stransky Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 10:16 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash While I have no authority to defend why, I'm leaning toward PureMVC. From what I remember it's very similar to whats being described here. Events are hijacked and all commands are registered in one place which can be triggered from anywhere. Of course I'll have to put my money where my mouth is before I can truly judge it. You guys don't have to post links but could you describe some of the projects you've worked on where Flex was an easy choice over Flash? On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Hans Wichman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jason, i only saw this post now, not sure if it was directed at me or at the list in general or both, but anyway: i agree the naming conventions could be better, but I don't mind using some kind of locator object. I posted previously about my approach I think. I use an ApplicationRegistry where I register my objects: _appReg.register (new ...Model()); _appReg.register (new ...View()); etc and I do that for all key application objects such as services, models etc when I need them I do: _appReg.getRegistree (IFooBarModel); in other words, I locate my objects by interface (or concrete classes depending on how abstract we need to get). Usually I even wrap that using an objectbroker so the previous line becomes: _ob.getFooBarModel():IFooBarModel It separates creation from usage, I don't have to import anything except the broker and works wonders while refactoring. I've used in on several projects and have to run into downsides yet. It has not harmed reusability, managability etc etc, it has helped improve my coding speed by far. greetz JC On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Merrill, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the article, some good, some bad. What are your thoughts on the article's baching of Cairngorm's ModelLocator? The he says its really a global var in disguise, and I understand that, but I still find it very handy - maybe it makes it somewhat tighter coupled to the model, but I use the same implementation of it in non-Cairgorm projects just because it's so handy. I can see where it wouldn't be good in a coding environment where you have to loosely couple everything, but it also seems to have its uses. Any thoughts on that? Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD Interested in Flash Platform technologies? Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community Interested in innovative ideas in Learning? Check out the Innovative Learning Blog and subscribe. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- --Joel Stransky stranskydesign.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman
RE: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
The thing that bothers me about Cairngorm is the name ModelLocator as outlined in the article. ModelLocator doesn't locate models, it IS the model. Oh yeah, that bothered me too - at least just in a naming convention way. Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD Interested in Flash Platform technologies? Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community Interested in innovative ideas in Learning? Check out the Innovative Learning Blog and subscribe. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Muzak Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 5:28 AM To: Flash Coders List Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash I guess alot of us (including myself) have gotten used to the global-thing-in-disguise from using it that way in Flash and kept doing so in Flex. Personally I don't have a problem with it and I use my own MVC-type architecture that also includes a Singleton Model. The thing that bothers me about Cairngorm is the name ModelLocator as outlined in the article. ModelLocator doesn't locate models, it IS the model. ARP has a ModelLocator that does locate models and my guess is that's where they borrowed the name and it kinda stuck around. If memory servers me right, to get to the Model you want in ARP you'd use something like: var cart:ShoppingCart = ModelLocator.getInstance().getModel(shoppingCart); cart.total = 458.5; Cairngorm also doesn't have an events package, but rather stores their main Event class in control com.adobe.cairngorm.control.CairngormEvent com.adobe.cairngorm.control.CairngormEventDispatcher I'd prefer: com.adobe.cairngorm.events.CairngormEvent com.adobe.cairngorm.events.CairngormEventDispatcher which is more inline with the Flex framework And one more thing I dislike is the 1 on 1 mapping of Events and Commands. From what I've seen in their docs and samples they use a different Event class for every Command, which IMO makes no sense. GetUserEvent UpdateUserEvent DeleteUserEvent CreateUserEvent And the static constants are stored someplace else, can't remember but think it was the Controller (that extends FrontController). Rather than having 4 Event classes for each Command I prefer 1 Event class: UserEvent which has as many static constants as required: public static const GET_USER:String = getUser; public static const UPATE_USER:String = updateUser; public static const DELETE_USER:String = deleteUser; public static const CREATE_USER:String = createUser; Again this is inline with what is already present in the Flex framework: MouseEvent.CLICK MouseEvent.MOUSE_DOWN MouseEvent.MOUSE_UP etc.. Think that's about it.. regards, Muzak - Original Message - From: Merrill, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 4:11 PM Subject: RE: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash Read the article, some good, some bad. What are your thoughts on the article's baching of Cairngorm's ModelLocator? The he says its really a global var in disguise, and I understand that, but I still find it very handy - maybe it makes it somewhat tighter coupled to the model, but I use the same implementation of it in non-Cairgorm projects just because it's so handy. I can see where it wouldn't be good in a coding environment where you have to loosely couple everything, but it also seems to have its uses. Any thoughts on that? Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Hi, it's similar but not the same. Yes in PureMVC you register your objects as well, but you register them by a name defined in the class being registered (and you have to define this name). This causes references to a concrete class everytime you retrieve your registry item and you cannot easily switch implementations at runtime without doing something 'extra'. Besides that you register your object with a different registry based on whether its a view, model, proxy etc. All I'm really interested in is an objects interface, so I rolled those registries into one and access them by interface only, not by public constants. Whether you hijack events and create commands that can be triggered from anywhere is a separate issue I think. greetz JC On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: While I have no authority to defend why, I'm leaning toward PureMVC. From what I remember it's very similar to whats being described here. Events are hijacked and all commands are registered in one place which can be triggered from anywhere. Of course I'll have to put my money where my mouth is before I can truly judge it. You guys don't have to post links but could you describe some of the projects you've worked on where Flex was an easy choice over Flash? On Thu, Nov 20, 2008 at 6:18 AM, Hans Wichman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jason, i only saw this post now, not sure if it was directed at me or at the list in general or both, but anyway: i agree the naming conventions could be better, but I don't mind using some kind of locator object. I posted previously about my approach I think. I use an ApplicationRegistry where I register my objects: _appReg.register (new ...Model()); _appReg.register (new ...View()); etc and I do that for all key application objects such as services, models etc when I need them I do: _appReg.getRegistree (IFooBarModel); in other words, I locate my objects by interface (or concrete classes depending on how abstract we need to get). Usually I even wrap that using an objectbroker so the previous line becomes: _ob.getFooBarModel():IFooBarModel It separates creation from usage, I don't have to import anything except the broker and works wonders while refactoring. I've used in on several projects and have to run into downsides yet. It has not harmed reusability, managability etc etc, it has helped improve my coding speed by far. greetz JC On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Merrill, Jason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the article, some good, some bad. What are your thoughts on the article's baching of Cairngorm's ModelLocator? The he says its really a global var in disguise, and I understand that, but I still find it very handy - maybe it makes it somewhat tighter coupled to the model, but I use the same implementation of it in non-Cairgorm projects just because it's so handy. I can see where it wouldn't be good in a coding environment where you have to loosely couple everything, but it also seems to have its uses. Any thoughts on that? Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD Interested in Flash Platform technologies? Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community Interested in innovative ideas in Learning? Check out the Innovative Learning Blog and subscribe. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders -- --Joel Stransky stranskydesign.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Actually, Cairngorm does allow arbitrary mappings from events to commands, it does not require 1-to-1. The FrontController's addCommand() function takes an event name (String) and a Command class. In our app I have used the same event with different name-constants to run different commands, like so: addCommand(FollowingEvent.ADD, AddFollowingCommand); addCommand(FollowingEvent.REMOVE, RemoveFollowingCommand); In the constructor of FollowingEvent I take a type (String) parameter which I pass through to CairngormEvent's constructor. Dave And one more thing I dislike is the 1 on 1 mapping of Events and Commands. From what I've seen in their docs and samples they use a different Event class for every Command, which IMO makes no sense. GetUserEvent UpdateUserEvent DeleteUserEvent CreateUserEvent And the static constants are stored someplace else, can't remember but think it was the Controller (that extends FrontController). Rather than having 4 Event classes for each Command I prefer 1 Event class: UserEvent which has as many static constants as required: public static const GET_USER:String = getUser; public static const UPATE_USER:String = updateUser; public static const DELETE_USER:String = deleteUser; public static const CREATE_USER:String = createUser; Again this is inline with what is already present in the Flex framework: MouseEvent.CLICK MouseEvent.MOUSE_DOWN MouseEvent.MOUSE_UP etc.. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
That's exactly what I'm doing (and tried to discribe). And true, Cairngorm doesn't require 1-to-1, probably should have made that more clear :) But if you look at the docs and samples etc.. they do advocate it that way (well at least last time I looked into Cairngorm). regards, Muzak - Original Message - From: David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash Actually, Cairngorm does allow arbitrary mappings from events to commands, it does not require 1-to-1. The FrontController's addCommand() function takes an event name (String) and a Command class. In our app I have used the same event with different name-constants to run different commands, like so: addCommand(FollowingEvent.ADD, AddFollowingCommand); addCommand(FollowingEvent.REMOVE, RemoveFollowingCommand); In the constructor of FollowingEvent I take a type (String) parameter which I pass through to CairngormEvent's constructor. Dave And one more thing I dislike is the 1 on 1 mapping of Events and Commands. From what I've seen in their docs and samples they use a different Event class for every Command, which IMO makes no sense. GetUserEvent UpdateUserEvent DeleteUserEvent CreateUserEvent And the static constants are stored someplace else, can't remember but think it was the Controller (that extends FrontController). Rather than having 4 Event classes for each Command I prefer 1 Event class: UserEvent which has as many static constants as required: public static const GET_USER:String = getUser; public static const UPATE_USER:String = updateUser; public static const DELETE_USER:String = deleteUser; public static const CREATE_USER:String = createUser; Again this is inline with what is already present in the Flex framework: MouseEvent.CLICK MouseEvent.MOUSE_DOWN MouseEvent.MOUSE_UP etc.. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
RE: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Read the article, some good, some bad. What are your thoughts on the article's baching of Cairngorm's ModelLocator? The he says its really a global var in disguise, and I understand that, but I still find it very handy - maybe it makes it somewhat tighter coupled to the model, but I use the same implementation of it in non-Cairgorm projects just because it's so handy. I can see where it wouldn't be good in a coding environment where you have to loosely couple everything, but it also seems to have its uses. Any thoughts on that? Jason Merrill Bank of America Instructional Technology Media · GCIB Staff Support LLD Interested in Flash Platform technologies? Join the Bank of America Flash Platform Developer Community Interested in innovative ideas in Learning? Check out the Innovative Learning Blog and subscribe. ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Micky Hulse wrote: Can anyone suggest a framework that would work best for cartoon/experimental animations (vs. a website-oriented framework.) To reiterate what some have said: take a look at Gaia. I used it on a large (for us, anyway) site that includes lots of cartoon animation: http://www.ftc.gov/youarehere I don't know how I could have done it without a framework like Gaia. The asset management features alone are invaluable. Let me know (maybe off-list) if you have any specific questions. -Jim ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
If your framework includes dependency injection like Spring or database tools like Hibernate or HaXe's SPOD for the Flashplayer, then you get a lot of your code moved into configuration files which really cuts down on the work, re-enforces collaboration and makes testing a lot better. Java is way ahead in this area but perhaps we will get there. Ron Paul Andrews wrote: A framework gives you amethod of organising your code in a manner that aids development and maintenance. Using a framework makes your code organisation understandable to others that are familiar with the framework, so it aids cooperative/team development. Potentially you can work on other projects that use the same or similar framework more easily and maybe pick up some coding guidelines/shortcuts and understand the strategies followed by others. In tiny projects frameworks aren't too important. In larger co-operative projects it is important for the reasons above. Paul - Original Message - From: Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash @ekameleon, that seems a little intense for me atm. This discussion is mainly about weather or not it's just dumb not to use a framework vs. plain as3 when building common flash sites. I'm looking to hear things like, PureMVC makes everything easier. or It makes no sense not to use Mate. On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Hans Wichman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the article, some good, some bad. If anyone declares you for a fool if you prefix interfaces with 'I' and use marker interface, I tend to gloss over the rest of the article since it no longer comes across trustworthy... Personal preference aside:) On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:05 AM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article: http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part-x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/ Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The article is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part. Dave On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought in at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly to say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My gut says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying too heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings intimately. It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without a framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant learning curve. ugg. Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to this blog post made just yesterday: http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/ This should also be informative. http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked it. It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it might apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things for us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is certainly a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and text, it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so when you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't anticipate it often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex framework code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see what it's doing. We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't really give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like so: new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch(); and the controller connects that to the appropriate SaveGameCommand. We've come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where most user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so useful for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal to the .swf. We have ended
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
@ekameleon, that seems a little intense for me atm. This discussion is
mainly about weather or not it's just dumb not to use a framework vs. plain
as3 when building common flash sites. I'm looking to hear things like,
PureMVC makes everything easier. or It makes no sense not to use Mate.
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Hans Wichman
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Read the article, some good, some bad.
If anyone declares you for a fool if you prefix interfaces with 'I'
and use marker interface, I tend to gloss over the rest of the article
since it no longer comes across trustworthy... Personal preference
aside:)
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:05 AM, David Hershberger
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article:
http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part-x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/
Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The
article
is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does
away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's
appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A
client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought
in
at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly
to
say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My
gut
says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying
too
heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings
intimately.
It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without
a
framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for
builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant
learning curve. ugg.
Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to
this
blog post made just yesterday:
http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/
This should also be informative.
http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked
it.
It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it
might
apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice
things
for
us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is
certainly
a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and
text,
it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so
when
you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't
anticipate
it
often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex
framework
code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see
what
it's doing.
We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't
really
give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of
the
important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm
Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their
dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like
so:
new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch();
and the controller connects that to the appropriate
SaveGameCommand. We've
come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where
most
user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so
useful
for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal
to
the
.swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on
the
networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a
basic
Model/View pattern.
I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data
binding
which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you
mark
certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds
data-change events for you. Then your view mxml classes use the data
binding syntax like Label text={game.description}/ and the view
updates
automagically whenever the Game's description field changes. A
Cairngorm
command might query a server and then the server-response-handler in
the
command can set game.description.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
So I'm trying to nail down a work flow for building flash sites
(read:
not
flash applications) in as3. I had just about mastered fast seo
friendly
as2
sites when as3 came out and now that I'm making a concerted effort
to
modernize my skills I feel like I'm starting from scratch in many
ways.
Enter frameworks. So
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
A framework gives you amethod of organising your code in a manner that aids development and maintenance. Using a framework makes your code organisation understandable to others that are familiar with the framework, so it aids cooperative/team development. Potentially you can work on other projects that use the same or similar framework more easily and maybe pick up some coding guidelines/shortcuts and understand the strategies followed by others. In tiny projects frameworks aren't too important. In larger co-operative projects it is important for the reasons above. Paul - Original Message - From: Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash @ekameleon, that seems a little intense for me atm. This discussion is mainly about weather or not it's just dumb not to use a framework vs. plain as3 when building common flash sites. I'm looking to hear things like, PureMVC makes everything easier. or It makes no sense not to use Mate. On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Hans Wichman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the article, some good, some bad. If anyone declares you for a fool if you prefix interfaces with 'I' and use marker interface, I tend to gloss over the rest of the article since it no longer comes across trustworthy... Personal preference aside:) On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:05 AM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article: http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part-x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/ Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The article is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part. Dave On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought in at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly to say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My gut says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying too heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings intimately. It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without a framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant learning curve. ugg. Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to this blog post made just yesterday: http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/ This should also be informative. http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked it. It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it might apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things for us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is certainly a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and text, it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so when you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't anticipate it often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex framework code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see what it's doing. We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't really give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like so: new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch(); and the controller connects that to the appropriate SaveGameCommand. We've come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where most user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so useful for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal to the .swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on the networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a basic Model/View pattern. I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data binding which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you mark certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds data-change events
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Joel, Considering the types of Flash sites you're talking about building, Flex is not the solution you need. However, Flex is absolutely worth learning, if only to expand your skillset which leads to making more money per hour. ;) Out of all the frameworks you listed, only Gaia is for making the types of websites you said you are making. The rest are application frameworks. PureMVC, Mate and Cairngorm are primarily intended to work with Flex and any support you seek on learning those frameworks will most likely come from Flex developers and not Flash ones. They are important to learn if and when you learn Flex. Gaia AS3 is only 40k (AS2 is slightly smaller). I hate code bloat and have spent a lot of effort keeping Gaia as lean as possible. There's even an option to optimize the main.swf by removing any assets you aren't using in your site, which can potentially decrease the file size down to 29k. A lot of developers and designers making the transition from AS2 to AS3 have found Gaia very helpful in that process, since it takes care of a lot of the extra code that is so overwhelming, and gives you time to slowly acclimate to the changes. Gaia also has an active forum with over 800 members, a robust Wiki and documentation, ASDocs, and I am available on the forums every day answering questions. If you're going to be at MAX, come check out my Gaia presentation on Tuesday at 4:00pm. http://360max.wikispaces.com/Gaia+Framework Cheers and good luck! -Steven ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
I think we just wrote about this, though it may have been on a different list. Apparently this is a hot subject lately... Whether to use a framework or a pattern like MVC really depends on a case-by-case assessment. The whole reason why someone invented design patterns was to address project-specific design problems. So it makes no sense to say that one specific pattern will address all software architecture needs. There are dozens of design patterns, each one is best suited to a particular need. MVC, pureMVC, Carngorm, these are all basically MVC patterns with some tweaks. In general keeping the M the V and C separate make a lot of sense; not just from a clean-code perspective, but also in terms of code-re usability. Coding in such a way that you promote code re-usability is, IMHO, a really smart way good to go. Encapsulation is far more important than any one particular frame work. Keep the project-specific variables/sprites totally separate from the logic. That way you can re-use the logic again in a future project and accelerate your development speed continually from project to project. Encapsulation also reduces debugging time considerably -- if you know that an object works, then under similar conditions in a future project it will still work, reducing the areas you need to investigate when debugging. Exceptions, often done following change requests and in quick-fix debugging sessions, are your wizards bane. So by keeping the actions separate from the data or visual code, you can re-use them easily between projects. And by keeping the visual elements separate, you allow visual classes to be re-usable, same with model classes. To me, it is this clear separation that provides the real benefit. It creates both clarity in debugging as well as modular code. Nothing is more annoying than finding a class that animates sprites, creates visual elements, loads data and stores it and also defines for each button the same exact action as was in 3 other class files -- if I need to change anything I need to spend precious time hunting where it is and then changing the same lines of code in 3 different places! The more modular the code, ultimately the faster you can code, which means the more complex your projects can become and the higher your hourly rate can become. Examples: If you write an AS3 function that sets up tabs for a navigation, you never have to write than code in AS3 again in any new projects -- encapsulate the whole 'building the nav' logic, and just change the imported assets you need externally to that class and pass it some parameters that relate to dynamic variables [margin between elements etc]: loadNav.load (xmlFile,navButtonSprite,Parameters); Same with an XML parser, I just have an static method in a custom class I made that I can call, I pass it the function I want it to return to when done loading and voila. Now when I want to load in new XML I never have to write: 'load', 'onload' etc all I write is 'import myCustomXMLloader' and then 'ParseXML.load (xmlFile, callingObject, functionToCallWhenDoneName);' Same with preloaders, I use a static method which I pass the preloader sprite, image/movie to load and some parameters for position/alignment and it does the rest: 'Preloader.load (asset, preloaderObject, parameters:Object); Hope this helps, Seb. Paul Andrews wrote: A framework gives you amethod of organising your code in a manner that aids development and maintenance. Using a framework makes your code organisation understandable to others that are familiar with the framework, so it aids cooperative/team development. Potentially you can work on other projects that use the same or similar framework more easily and maybe pick up some coding guidelines/shortcuts and understand the strategies followed by others. In tiny projects frameworks aren't too important. In larger co-operative projects it is important for the reasons above. Paul - Original Message - From: Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash @ekameleon, that seems a little intense for me atm. This discussion is mainly about weather or not it's just dumb not to use a framework vs. plain as3 when building common flash sites. I'm looking to hear things like, PureMVC makes everything easier. or It makes no sense not to use Mate. On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Hans Wichman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Read the article, some good, some bad. If anyone declares you for a fool if you prefix interfaces with 'I' and use marker interface, I tend to gloss over the rest of the article since it no longer comes across trustworthy... Personal preference aside:) On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:05 AM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article: http
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Thanks for your input Steven. I actually stumbled across Gaia just after writing something very similar in as2 complete with transition events. I was blown away by Gaia and think it may be the way to go for me for now. @Sebastian, I've basically done all the same things in as2 and have been studying design patterns for some time now. I had always intended on writing similar helper classes in as3 but was really curious if any popular frameworks replaced the need. On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 2:51 PM, sebastian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think we just wrote about this, though it may have been on a different list. Apparently this is a hot subject lately... Whether to use a framework or a pattern like MVC really depends on a case-by-case assessment. The whole reason why someone invented design patterns was to address project-specific design problems. So it makes no sense to say that one specific pattern will address all software architecture needs. There are dozens of design patterns, each one is best suited to a particular need. MVC, pureMVC, Carngorm, these are all basically MVC patterns with some tweaks. In general keeping the M the V and C separate make a lot of sense; not just from a clean-code perspective, but also in terms of code-re usability. Coding in such a way that you promote code re-usability is, IMHO, a really smart way good to go. Encapsulation is far more important than any one particular frame work. Keep the project-specific variables/sprites totally separate from the logic. That way you can re-use the logic again in a future project and accelerate your development speed continually from project to project. Encapsulation also reduces debugging time considerably -- if you know that an object works, then under similar conditions in a future project it will still work, reducing the areas you need to investigate when debugging. Exceptions, often done following change requests and in quick-fix debugging sessions, are your wizards bane. So by keeping the actions separate from the data or visual code, you can re-use them easily between projects. And by keeping the visual elements separate, you allow visual classes to be re-usable, same with model classes. To me, it is this clear separation that provides the real benefit. It creates both clarity in debugging as well as modular code. Nothing is more annoying than finding a class that animates sprites, creates visual elements, loads data and stores it and also defines for each button the same exact action as was in 3 other class files -- if I need to change anything I need to spend precious time hunting where it is and then changing the same lines of code in 3 different places! The more modular the code, ultimately the faster you can code, which means the more complex your projects can become and the higher your hourly rate can become. Examples: If you write an AS3 function that sets up tabs for a navigation, you never have to write than code in AS3 again in any new projects -- encapsulate the whole 'building the nav' logic, and just change the imported assets you need externally to that class and pass it some parameters that relate to dynamic variables [margin between elements etc]: loadNav.load (xmlFile,navButtonSprite,Parameters); Same with an XML parser, I just have an static method in a custom class I made that I can call, I pass it the function I want it to return to when done loading and voila. Now when I want to load in new XML I never have to write: 'load', 'onload' etc all I write is 'import myCustomXMLloader' and then 'ParseXML.load (xmlFile, callingObject, functionToCallWhenDoneName);' Same with preloaders, I use a static method which I pass the preloader sprite, image/movie to load and some parameters for position/alignment and it does the rest: 'Preloader.load (asset, preloaderObject, parameters:Object); Hope this helps, Seb. Paul Andrews wrote: A framework gives you amethod of organising your code in a manner that aids development and maintenance. Using a framework makes your code organisation understandable to others that are familiar with the framework, so it aids cooperative/team development. Potentially you can work on other projects that use the same or similar framework more easily and maybe pick up some coding guidelines/shortcuts and understand the strategies followed by others. In tiny projects frameworks aren't too important. In larger co-operative projects it is important for the reasons above. Paul - Original Message - From: Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Flash Coders List flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash @ekameleon, that seems a little intense for me atm. This discussion is mainly about weather or not it's just dumb not to use a framework vs. plain as3 when building common flash sites. I'm looking to hear things like, PureMVC
[Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Hello, So I'm trying to nail down a work flow for building flash sites (read: not flash applications) in as3. I had just about mastered fast seo friendly as2 sites when as3 came out and now that I'm making a concerted effort to modernize my skills I feel like I'm starting from scratch in many ways. Enter frameworks. So far I've looked at Gaiahttp://www.gaiaflashframework.com/index.php, PureMVC http://puremvc.org/content/view/67/178/, Matehttp://mate.asfusion.com/and Enterprise Architect http://www.sparxsystems.com/products/ea/index.html (please add any others I haven't listed) On the upside, I like the idea of rapid development and reduced monotony. But the most important thing to me is extremely lightweight blazing fast flash using the least amount of bloat. In a perfect scenario, I don't want extra file size due to wrappers of core commands. So, assuming I'm comfortable with the file size/rapid development trade off with one of these packages, my concern then becomes one of dependency and learning curve. After learning a new API, am I going to have to hack or work around it for those interesting situations that always seem to pop up? What if something major changes on the flashplayer and my chosen framework doesn't address it? I fear becoming too dependent on a 3rd party api. I'd really like to know what you guys are using, any development horror stories you have because of it as well as any insight you can provide about the concerns I've listed. Thanks for your time. -- --Joel Stransky stranskydesign.com ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked it.
It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it might
apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things for
us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is certainly
a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and text,
it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so when
you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't anticipate it
often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex framework
code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see what
it's doing.
We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't really
give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the
important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm
Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their
dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like so:
new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch();
and the controller connects that to the appropriate SaveGameCommand. We've
come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where most
user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so useful
for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal to the
.swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on the
networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a basic
Model/View pattern.
I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data binding
which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you mark
certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds
data-change events for you. Then your view mxml classes use the data
binding syntax like Label text={game.description}/ and the view updates
automagically whenever the Game's description field changes. A Cairngorm
command might query a server and then the server-response-handler in the
command can set game.description.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
So I'm trying to nail down a work flow for building flash sites (read: not
flash applications) in as3. I had just about mastered fast seo friendly as2
sites when as3 came out and now that I'm making a concerted effort to
modernize my skills I feel like I'm starting from scratch in many ways.
Enter frameworks. So far I've looked at
Gaiahttp://www.gaiaflashframework.com/index.php,
PureMVC http://puremvc.org/content/view/67/178/,
Matehttp://mate.asfusion.com/and Enterprise
Architect http://www.sparxsystems.com/products/ea/index.html (please add
any others I haven't listed)
On the upside, I like the idea of rapid development and reduced monotony.
But the most important thing to me is extremely lightweight blazing fast
flash using the least amount of bloat. In a perfect scenario, I don't want
extra file size due to wrappers of core commands.
So, assuming I'm comfortable with the file size/rapid development trade off
with one of these packages, my concern then becomes one of dependency and
learning curve. After learning a new API, am I going to have to hack or
work
around it for those interesting situations that always seem to pop up? What
if something major changes on the flashplayer and my chosen framework
doesn't address it? I fear becoming too dependent on a 3rd party api.
I'd really like to know what you guys are using, any development horror
stories you have because of it as well as any insight you can provide about
the concerns I've listed.
Thanks for your time.
--
--Joel Stransky
stranskydesign.com
___
Flashcoders mailing list
Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
___
Flashcoders mailing list
Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com
http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does
away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's
appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A
client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought in
at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly to
say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My gut
says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying too
heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings
intimately.
It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without a
framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for
builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant
learning curve. ugg.
Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to this
blog post made just yesterday:
http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/
This should also be informative.
http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked it.
It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it might
apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things for
us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is certainly
a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and text,
it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so when
you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't anticipate
it
often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex framework
code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see what
it's doing.
We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't really
give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the
important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm
Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their
dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like so:
new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch();
and the controller connects that to the appropriate SaveGameCommand. We've
come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where most
user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so
useful
for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal to
the
.swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on the
networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a basic
Model/View pattern.
I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data binding
which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you mark
certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds
data-change events for you. Then your view mxml classes use the data
binding syntax like Label text={game.description}/ and the view updates
automagically whenever the Game's description field changes. A Cairngorm
command might query a server and then the server-response-handler in the
command can set game.description.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
So I'm trying to nail down a work flow for building flash sites (read:
not
flash applications) in as3. I had just about mastered fast seo friendly
as2
sites when as3 came out and now that I'm making a concerted effort to
modernize my skills I feel like I'm starting from scratch in many ways.
Enter frameworks. So far I've looked at
Gaiahttp://www.gaiaflashframework.com/index.php,
PureMVC http://puremvc.org/content/view/67/178/,
Matehttp://mate.asfusion.com/and Enterprise
Architect http://www.sparxsystems.com/products/ea/index.html (please
add
any others I haven't listed)
On the upside, I like the idea of rapid development and reduced monotony.
But the most important thing to me is extremely lightweight blazing fast
flash using the least amount of bloat. In a perfect scenario, I don't
want
extra file size due to wrappers of core commands.
So, assuming I'm comfortable with the file size/rapid development trade
off
with one of these packages, my concern then becomes one of dependency and
learning curve. After learning a new API, am I going to have to hack or
work
around it for those interesting situations that always seem to pop up?
What
if something major changes on the flashplayer and my chosen framework
doesn't address it? I fear becoming too dependent on a 3rd party api.
I'd really like to know what you guys are using, any development horror
stories you have because of it as well as any insight you can provide
about
the concerns I've listed.
Thanks for your time.
--
--Joel Stransky
stranskydesign.com
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article:
http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part-x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/
Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The article
is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does
away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's
appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A
client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought in
at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly to
say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My
gut
says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying too
heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings
intimately.
It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without a
framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for
builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant
learning curve. ugg.
Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to this
blog post made just yesterday:
http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/
This should also be informative.
http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked it.
It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it might
apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things
for
us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is
certainly
a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and text,
it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so
when
you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't anticipate
it
often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex framework
code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see
what
it's doing.
We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't
really
give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the
important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm
Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their
dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like
so:
new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch();
and the controller connects that to the appropriate
SaveGameCommand. We've
come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where most
user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so
useful
for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal to
the
.swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on the
networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a basic
Model/View pattern.
I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data
binding
which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you mark
certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds
data-change events for you. Then your view mxml classes use the data
binding syntax like Label text={game.description}/ and the view
updates
automagically whenever the Game's description field changes. A Cairngorm
command might query a server and then the server-response-handler in the
command can set game.description.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
So I'm trying to nail down a work flow for building flash sites (read:
not
flash applications) in as3. I had just about mastered fast seo friendly
as2
sites when as3 came out and now that I'm making a concerted effort to
modernize my skills I feel like I'm starting from scratch in many ways.
Enter frameworks. So far I've looked at
Gaiahttp://www.gaiaflashframework.com/index.php,
PureMVC http://puremvc.org/content/view/67/178/,
Matehttp://mate.asfusion.com/and Enterprise
Architect http://www.sparxsystems.com/products/ea/index.html (please
add
any others I haven't listed)
On the upside, I like the idea of rapid development and reduced
monotony.
But the most important thing to me is extremely lightweight blazing
fast
flash using the least amount of bloat. In a perfect scenario, I don't
want
extra file size due to wrappers of core commands.
So, assuming I'm comfortable with the file size/rapid development trade
off
with one of these packages, my concern then becomes one of dependency
and
learning curve. After learning a new API, am I going to have to hack or
work
around it for
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Well I'm not exactly getting into Flex yet. If after some testing I find
that I can do normal flash sites as well as RIA's I'll switch to Flex full
time and in that case, PureMVC or Mate. Right now my focus is the kind of
stuff you see on FWA.
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 6:05 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article:
http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part-x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/
Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The
article
is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does
away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's
appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A
client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought
in
at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly to
say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My
gut
says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying too
heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings
intimately.
It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without a
framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for
builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant
learning curve. ugg.
Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to
this
blog post made just yesterday:
http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/
This should also be informative.
http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked
it.
It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it
might
apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things
for
us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is
certainly
a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and
text,
it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so
when
you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't
anticipate
it
often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex
framework
code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see
what
it's doing.
We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't
really
give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the
important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm
Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their
dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like
so:
new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch();
and the controller connects that to the appropriate
SaveGameCommand. We've
come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where
most
user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so
useful
for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal
to
the
.swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on the
networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a
basic
Model/View pattern.
I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data
binding
which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you
mark
certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds
data-change events for you. Then your view mxml classes use the data
binding syntax like Label text={game.description}/ and the view
updates
automagically whenever the Game's description field changes. A
Cairngorm
command might query a server and then the server-response-handler in
the
command can set game.description.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
So I'm trying to nail down a work flow for building flash sites
(read:
not
flash applications) in as3. I had just about mastered fast seo
friendly
as2
sites when as3 came out and now that I'm making a concerted effort to
modernize my skills I feel like I'm starting from scratch in many
ways.
Enter frameworks. So far I've looked at
Gaiahttp://www.gaiaflashframework.com/index.php,
PureMVC http://puremvc.org/content/view/67/178/,
Matehttp://mate.asfusion.com/and Enterprise
Architect http://www.sparxsystems.com/products/ea/index.html
(please
add
any others I haven't listed)
On the upside, I like the idea of rapid development and reduced
monotony.
But the most important thing
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Hello :)
You can try Maashaack and VEGAS :
http://code.google.com/p/maashaack/
http://code.google.com/p/vegas/
To test the IoC/MVC implementation with Maashaack and VEGAS you can try the
documentary framework AST'r :
http://code.google.com/p/astr
ASTr is only a little template/example who use Maashaack and VEGAS to
implement a little gallery with MVC/ICO/Remoting and eden the ECMAScript
data exchange notation Ridge Racer
PS : eden is included in Maashaack now (eden is a extended
serializer/deserializer based on the ECMAScript notation).
EKA+ :)
2008/11/15 Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Well I'm not exactly getting into Flex yet. If after some testing I find
that I can do normal flash sites as well as RIA's I'll switch to Flex full
time and in that case, PureMVC or Mate. Right now my focus is the kind of
stuff you see on FWA.
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 6:05 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article:
http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part-x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/
Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The
article
is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which
does
away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's
appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A
client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was
brought
in
at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly
to
say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then.
My
gut
says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying
too
heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner
workings
intimately.
It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without
a
framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for
builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant
learning curve. ugg.
Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to
this
blog post made just yesterday:
http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/
This should also be informative.
http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked
it.
It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it
might
apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice
things
for
us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is
certainly
a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and
text,
it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though,
so
when
you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't
anticipate
it
often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex
framework
code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see
what
it's doing.
We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't
really
give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of
the
important code it does give is a controller which connects
Cairngorm
Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their
dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events
like
so:
new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch();
and the controller connects that to the appropriate
SaveGameCommand. We've
come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where
most
user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so
useful
for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal
to
the
.swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on
the
networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a
basic
Model/View pattern.
I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data
binding
which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you
mark
certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds
data-change events for you. Then your view mxml classes use the data
binding syntax like Label text={game.description}/ and the view
updates
automagically whenever the Game's description field changes. A
Cairngorm
command might query a server and then the server-response-handler in
the
command can set game.description.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
So I'm
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Hello, do you have examples of sites made using one these frameworks? Olivier ps: no need to be strictly FWA-like ;) ekameleon a écrit : Hello :) You can try Maashaack and VEGAS : http://code.google.com/p/maashaack/ http://code.google.com/p/vegas/ To test the IoC/MVC implementation with Maashaack and VEGAS you can try the documentary framework AST'r : http://code.google.com/p/astr ASTr is only a little template/example who use Maashaack and VEGAS to implement a little gallery with MVC/ICO/Remoting and eden the ECMAScript data exchange notation Ridge Racer PS : eden is included in Maashaack now (eden is a extended serializer/deserializer based on the ECMAScript notation). EKA+ :) 2008/11/15 Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well I'm not exactly getting into Flex yet. If after some testing I find that I can do normal flash sites as well as RIA's I'll switch to Flex full time and in that case, PureMVC or Mate. Right now my focus is the kind of stuff you see on FWA. On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 6:05 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article: http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part-x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/ Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The article is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part. Dave On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought in at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly to say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My gut says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying too heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings intimately. It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without a framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant learning curve. ugg. Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to this blog post made just yesterday: http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/ This should also be informative. http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked it. It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it might apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things for us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is certainly a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and text, it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so when you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't anticipate it often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex framework code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see what it's doing. We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't really give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like so: new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch(); and the controller connects that to the appropriate SaveGameCommand. We've come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where most user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so useful for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal to the .swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on the networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a basic Model/View pattern. I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data binding which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you mark certain state variables with
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
I'm coming to the party late so I may be off topic a bit but if you're looking for an excellent framework to build a flash website on, you can't beat http://gaiaflashframework.com. I built my website (http://www.memoriesforevervideo.com) on that framework and love it. Steve Bailey On Nov 14, 2008, at 8:34 PM, Olivier Besson wrote: Hello, do you have examples of sites made using one these frameworks? Olivier ps: no need to be strictly FWA-like ;) ekameleon a écrit : Hello :) You can try Maashaack and VEGAS : http://code.google.com/p/maashaack/ http://code.google.com/p/vegas/ To test the IoC/MVC implementation with Maashaack and VEGAS you can try the documentary framework AST'r : http://code.google.com/p/astr ASTr is only a little template/example who use Maashaack and VEGAS to implement a little gallery with MVC/ICO/Remoting and eden the ECMAScript data exchange notation Ridge Racer PS : eden is included in Maashaack now (eden is a extended serializer/deserializer based on the ECMAScript notation). EKA+ :) 2008/11/15 Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well I'm not exactly getting into Flex yet. If after some testing I find that I can do normal flash sites as well as RIA's I'll switch to Flex full time and in that case, PureMVC or Mate. Right now my focus is the kind of stuff you see on FWA. On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 6:05 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article: http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part- x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/ Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The article is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part. Dave On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought in at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly to say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My gut says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying too heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings intimately. It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without a framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant learning curve. ugg. Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to this blog post made just yesterday: http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/ This should also be informative. http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex- framework.html On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked it. It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it might apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things for us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is certainly a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and text, it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so when you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't anticipate it often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex framework code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see what it's doing. We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't really give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like so: new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch(); and the controller connects that to the appropriate SaveGameCommand. We've come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where most user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so useful for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal to the .swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on the networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a basic Model/View pattern. I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data binding which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you mark certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds data-change events for you. Then
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Can anyone suggest a framework that would work best for cartoon/experimental animations (vs. a website-oriented framework.) ___ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
Re: [Flashcoders] frameworks and flash
Read the article, some good, some bad.
If anyone declares you for a fool if you prefix interfaces with 'I'
and use marker interface, I tend to gloss over the rest of the article
since it no longer comes across trustworthy... Personal preference
aside:)
On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 12:05 AM, David Hershberger
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Haha! Before you try Cairngorm, check out this article:
http://blog.iconara.net/2008/04/13/architectural-atrocities-part-x-cairngorms-model-locator-pattern/
Having used Cairngorm for a while now I have to agree with him. The article
is pretty harsh, and it only talks about the ModelLocator part.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Thanks for the post Dave. Cairngorm sounds a lot like PureMVC which does
away with events and implements a global command structure. So far it's
appealing although my first run in with it was under bad conditions. A
client of a friend had mangled it something fierce before he was brought in
at which point he brought me in to implement deep linking. It was ugly to
say the least. I have however heard great things about it since then. My
gut
says I should know how to do this stuff on my own before I go relying too
heavily on tools that prevent me from getting to know the inner workings
intimately.
It's just tough to esitmate flash/flex work effictively anymore without a
framework involved it seems. Clients don't have the time or budget for
builds from scratch. Flash used to be so fun but now it's a constant
learning curve. ugg.
Interestingly enough I looked up the cairngorm site and saw a link to this
blog post made just yesterday:
http://www.anandvardhan.com/2008/11/13/popular-flex-frameworks/
This should also be informative.
http://www.insideria.com/2008/11/new-poll-which-flex-framework.html
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 1:52 PM, David Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
We have been using Adobe Flex for the past year and have really liked it.
It would be hard to call it blazing and bloat does seem like it might
apply to some extent, but on the other hand it does so many nice things
for
us it is hard to argue with. MXML is very powerful, but there is
certainly
a big learning curve. For basic stuff, buttons and containers and text,
it's easy to get started. There are lots of subtle details though, so
when
you start wanting to do things in ways the Flex authors didn't anticipate
it
often takes experimentation to find a way that works. The Flex framework
code is open source at least, so you can always dig into that and see
what
it's doing.
We have also used Cairngorm, with mixed results. Cairngorm doesn't
really
give you much code, it is mostly a set of design patterns. Some of the
important code it does give is a controller which connects Cairngorm
Events to Cairngorm Commands. Cairngorm events inherently know their
dispatcher, which is a singleton, so you can just fire off events like
so:
new SaveGameEvent(game, user).dispatch();
and the controller connects that to the appropriate
SaveGameCommand. We've
come to the conclusion that Cairngorm is great for situations where most
user actions imply immediate communications with a server, but not so
useful
for situations where user actions are just manipulating data internal to
the
.swf. We have ended up using Cairngorm Events and Commands just on the
networking side of our app, and for everything else we do more of a basic
Model/View pattern.
I don't believe Cairngorm relies on Flex, but Flex gives you data
binding
which works very nicely with Cairngorm. Flex data binding lets you mark
certain state variables with [Bindable] and then the compiler builds
data-change events for you. Then your view mxml classes use the data
binding syntax like Label text={game.description}/ and the view
updates
automagically whenever the Game's description field changes. A Cairngorm
command might query a server and then the server-response-handler in the
command can set game.description.
Dave
On 11/14/08, Joel Stransky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello,
So I'm trying to nail down a work flow for building flash sites (read:
not
flash applications) in as3. I had just about mastered fast seo friendly
as2
sites when as3 came out and now that I'm making a concerted effort to
modernize my skills I feel like I'm starting from scratch in many ways.
Enter frameworks. So far I've looked at
Gaiahttp://www.gaiaflashframework.com/index.php,
PureMVC http://puremvc.org/content/view/67/178/,
Matehttp://mate.asfusion.com/and Enterprise
Architect http://www.sparxsystems.com/products/ea/index.html (please
add
any others I haven't listed)
On the upside, I like the idea of rapid development and reduced
monotony.
But the most important thing to me is extremely lightweight blazing
fast
flash using the least amount of bloat. In a perfect
