Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
I use Thunderbird for my Inbox management, don't know what I'd do without it, to be perfectly honest. I set up filter rules for every list I subscribe to, which looks for [flexcoders] in the subject for example, and automatically routes emails to the appropriate folder. If I want to flag a particular post as reference or to look into or to reply or whatever, I have colour-coded tags which all have 0-9 hotkeys, and with a single click that post is tagged. I don't bother deleting anything, cause I don't have to, which means it's all available as a reference if I need it. In fact I have filters that sort emails from newsletters, vendors, clients, colleagues, family, everything, and whatever the filter doesn't know what to do with goes into my Inbox. I get hundreds of emails a day, dozens not counting newsletters and lists. My Inbox gets maybe one or two a day. Initially you might spend a lot of time establishing filters, but after a time it manages itself, like training a spam algorithm. It also means that after seven years of list subscriptions my email folder is huge (3.7 GB), but the upside outweighs the downside. I'm not a big fan of online email services anyways. ___ Joseph Balderson, Flash Platform Developer | http://joeflash.ca Anatole Tartakovsky wrote: Josh, It is definitely up to flexcoders as a group to make these decision - not me for sure. I did suggest separate group on best practices and I do not think you can separate UI best practices in Front-end tool - but I might assume much. Enterprise in Flex is reasonably well defined - anything that is based on commercial LCDS + typical tasks for enterprises - portals integration, large team management, scalability, and whatever else. Basically people usually know if they are working in enterprise and would use their judgement. The same goes for 101 - people often know if they are within the first 6 month. 101 presumes that there is FAQ thread somewhere, and hopefully WiKi with repeated questions. It also gives Adobe better idea what new developers have problem with and they can make product more intuitive for new developers. As far as scaring people - my post clearly states that at this point new developers scare experienced ones instead of letting people work together. With smaller groups it is possible to get moderators. Take a look at weborb, every message you send gets to developers blackberry, but quite a few are answered by experienced developers that are in that group for quite some time. With smaller groups and defined target audience you can provide better targeted answers that would suite that community better. As far as better inbox management - I would love to hear about something that works - but I have not seen anything that would do 10 way split for me. Sincerely Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time.
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
On Tuesday 17 Jun 2008, Anatole Tartakovsky wrote: messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the It doesn't take me half and hour to scan down the list and click 'ignore thread' for the ones I don't want to take part in. I vote for keeping the group how it is - I don't see it as 'stagnant' at all - some people join and stay, others just drop in, get their question answered and then leave. created couple for your convenience). Oh, well, cheers for involving the rest of the community there. /me doesn't join them -- Tom Chiverton This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
- Original Message - From: Josh McDonald To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:25 AM Subject: Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. +1 It would probably help if there was a useful FAQ to point people at. For some of the posts, it would probably help if you were a mind reader. There's a lot of traffic, but nothing I can't pick through/ignore/delete/keep. I like the one-stop-shop that this list is and I hope we can keep tolerant of newbies, without list cops pushing them around the lists - no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. We were all there once and if nothing else the list shows we can all learn new things. Sometimes those newbie posts refer to something completely unexpected, even if only in the way they perceive the product. Paul -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
Who actually owns the list? Can we start a FAQ on a wiki somewhere and point to it in the sig that Yahoo applies to all the messages? -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - *From:* Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:25 AM *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. +1 It would probably help if there was a useful FAQ to point people at. For some of the posts, it would probably help if you were a mind reader. There's a lot of traffic, but nothing I can't pick through/ignore/delete/keep. I like the one-stop-shop that this list is and I hope we can keep tolerant of newbies, without list cops pushing them around the lists - no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. We were all there once and if nothing else the list shows we can all learn new things. Sometimes those newbie posts refer to something completely unexpected, even if only in the way they perceive the product. Paul -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. Subject :: NED helllp plzz I didn't even talk to my mom like that. ;-) I know there are hundreds of cultures out there but common, isn't this about simple and respectful language protocol? Mike On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - *From:* Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:25 AM *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. +1 It would probably help if there was a useful FAQ to point people at. For some of the posts, it would probably help if you were a mind reader. There's a lot of traffic, but nothing I can't pick through/ignore/delete/keep. I like the one-stop-shop that this list is and I hope we can keep tolerant of newbies, without list cops pushing them around the lists - no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. We were all there once and if nothing else the list shows we can all learn new things. Sometimes those newbie posts refer to something completely unexpected, even if only in the way they perceive the product. Paul -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Teoti Graphix, LLC http://www.teotigraphix.com Teoti Graphix Blog http://www.blog.teotigraphix.com You can find more by solving the problem then by 'asking the question'.
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
Sure there are people who are probably 16year olds who don't think before they post, but there's nothing we can do about that, splitting lists up won't help that :) -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Michael Schmalle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. Subject :: NED helllp plzz I didn't even talk to my mom like that. ;-) I know there are hundreds of cultures out there but common, isn't this about simple and respectful language protocol? Mike On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - *From:* Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:25 AM *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. +1 It would probably help if there was a useful FAQ to point people at. For some of the posts, it would probably help if you were a mind reader. There's a lot of traffic, but nothing I can't pick through/ignore/delete/keep. I like the one-stop-shop that this list is and I hope we can keep tolerant of newbies, without list cops pushing them around the lists - no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. We were all there once and if nothing else the list shows we can all learn new things. Sometimes those newbie posts refer to something completely unexpected, even if only in the way they perceive the product. Paul -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Teoti Graphix, LLC http://www.teotigraphix.com Teoti Graphix Blog http://www.blog.teotigraphix.com You can find more by solving the problem then by 'asking the question'. -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
Josh, Threads that get over 30 seem to get muddled. You talking to me? My opinion is splitting up this list won't help. Why do I know this? In my previous post, flexcomponents list is a ghost town, why, devs will ask on flexcoders because that is 'where we ask'. I was part of the group (professional component developers) back in 2006 that got flexcomponents list created, I am actually a moderator on that list. But, people don't read. Putting up a FAQ or sending it to people won't help because people don't read! :) These ridiculous questions mainly are because people don't read manuals like the veterans did (when we were inspired). Once you get a technology stable like flex and we are out of the betas (2006), it becomes a 'get it done and make money'. The people that answer questions are the ones that read the manual. Anyway, this is it for me. :) Mike On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure there are people who are probably 16year olds who don't think before they post, but there's nothing we can do about that, splitting lists up won't help that :) -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Michael Schmalle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. Subject :: NED helllp plzz I didn't even talk to my mom like that. ;-) I know there are hundreds of cultures out there but common, isn't this about simple and respectful language protocol? Mike On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - *From:* Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:25 AM *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. +1 It would probably help if there was a useful FAQ to point people at. For some of the posts, it would probably help if you were a mind reader. There's a lot of traffic, but nothing I can't pick through/ignore/delete/keep. I like the one-stop-shop that this list is and I hope we can keep tolerant of newbies, without list cops pushing them around the lists - no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. We were all there once and if nothing else the list shows we can all learn new things. Sometimes those newbie posts refer to something completely unexpected, even if only in the way they perceive the product. Paul -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
Oh yeah, one last thing; Looking in my inbox I see one cross post; Struts and Hiberante This was posted on flexcoders and flexcomponens. What does struts and hibernate have to do with flexcomponents. If you read on flexcomponents it explicitly says what that is for. No, this person just wants an answer. Splitting this group will just increase cross posting and decrease quality. Not everybody cares about the right thing, they care about getting passed what is holding them up. Mike On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 7:28 AM, Michael Schmalle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Josh, Threads that get over 30 seem to get muddled. You talking to me? My opinion is splitting up this list won't help. Why do I know this? In my previous post, flexcomponents list is a ghost town, why, devs will ask on flexcoders because that is 'where we ask'. I was part of the group (professional component developers) back in 2006 that got flexcomponents list created, I am actually a moderator on that list. But, people don't read. Putting up a FAQ or sending it to people won't help because people don't read! :) These ridiculous questions mainly are because people don't read manuals like the veterans did (when we were inspired). Once you get a technology stable like flex and we are out of the betas (2006), it becomes a 'get it done and make money'. The people that answer questions are the ones that read the manual. Anyway, this is it for me. :) Mike On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 6:59 AM, Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sure there are people who are probably 16year olds who don't think before they post, but there's nothing we can do about that, splitting lists up won't help that :) -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 8:57 PM, Michael Schmalle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. Subject :: NED helllp plzz I didn't even talk to my mom like that. ;-) I know there are hundreds of cultures out there but common, isn't this about simple and respectful language protocol? Mike On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 6:39 AM, Paul Andrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - *From:* Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* flexcoders@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, June 17, 2008 2:25 AM *Subject:* Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. +1 It would probably help if there was a useful FAQ to point people at. For some of the posts, it would probably help if you were a mind reader. There's a lot of traffic, but nothing I can't pick through/ignore/delete/keep. I like the one-stop-shop that this list is and I hope we can keep tolerant of newbies, without list cops pushing them around the lists - no matter how hopeless rudely the question is put. We were all there once and if nothing else the list shows we can all learn new things. Sometimes those newbie posts refer to something completely unexpected, even if only in the way they perceive the product. Paul -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
Yeah, long threads are a problem, mainly I think due to yahoo's stupid table-based ads they throw in. I don't really think a FAQ will help in that people will read it before they post, but it will help in making it real quick to answer questions that are common (but asked politely). The search function of the list isn't great, and it seems to be archived in several places making searching it from google kinda manky sometimes. I've been on it a while now so I can search my own archive with gmail, and I can often find an answer that way. Frankly I agree the list doesn't need splitting. But a nice FAQ from which we can post links to people who ask reasonable yet common questions would probably be a good thing. People appreciate getting an answer, and they also know to check there first the *second* time they have a question. -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Michael Schmalle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Josh, Threads that get over 30 seem to get muddled. You talking to me? My opinion is splitting up this list won't help. Why do I know this? In my previous post, flexcomponents list is a ghost town, why, devs will ask on flexcoders because that is 'where we ask'. I was part of the group (professional component developers) back in 2006 that got flexcomponents list created, I am actually a moderator on that list. But, people don't read. Putting up a FAQ or sending it to people won't help because people don't read! :) These ridiculous questions mainly are because people don't read manuals like the veterans did (when we were inspired). Once you get a technology stable like flex and we are out of the betas (2006), it becomes a 'get it done and make money'. The people that answer questions are the ones that read the manual. Anyway, this is it for me. :) Mike -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
On Tuesday 17 Jun 2008, Josh McDonald wrote: Yeah, long threads are a problem, mainly I think due to yahoo's stupid table-based ads they throw in. /me doesn't get ads, but I'm subscribed via 'plain text' email. Frankly I agree the list doesn't need splitting. But a nice FAQ from which We could whack the FAQ into Buzzword / Google docs and give the mods edit rights on it ? -- Tom Chiverton This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at Halliwells LLP, 3 Hardman Square, Spinningfields, Manchester, M3 3EB. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by The Solicitors Regulation Authority. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 2500. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. -- Flexcoders Mailing List FAQ: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/files/flexcodersFAQ.txt Search Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/flexcoders%40yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/flexcoders/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
good suggestions! I think this maillist need to be divided THREE group at least: Flex beginner group; Flex enterprise development( or advanced development) group; Flex designer group; -- lwz7512 Ultrapower Flex Team Leader OpenRIA -- A Window You Exploring RIA World http://www.openria.cn - Original Message From: Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: flexcoders@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:10:32 AM Subject: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience) . Flex101: http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] .com Subscribe: flex101-subscribe@ yahoogroups. com Unsubscribe: flex101-unsubscribe @yahoogroups. com List owner: flex101-owner@ yahoogroups. com EnterpriseFlex: http://tech. groups.yahoo. com/group/ enterpriseflex/ Post message: enterpriseflex@ yahoogroups. com Subscribe: enterpriseflex- subscribe@ yahoogroups. com Unsubscribe: enterpriseflex- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com List owner: enterpriseflex- [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
Josh, It is definitely up to flexcoders as a group to make these decision - not me for sure. I did suggest separate group on best practices and I do not think you can separate UI best practices in Front-end tool - but I might assume much. Enterprise in Flex is reasonably well defined - anything that is based on commercial LCDS + typical tasks for enterprises - portals integration, large team management, scalability, and whatever else. Basically people usually know if they are working in enterprise and would use their judgement. The same goes for 101 - people often know if they are within the first 6 month. 101 presumes that there is FAQ thread somewhere, and hopefully WiKi with repeated questions. It also gives Adobe better idea what new developers have problem with and they can make product more intuitive for new developers. As far as scaring people - my post clearly states that at this point new developers scare experienced ones instead of letting people work together. With smaller groups it is possible to get moderators. Take a look at weborb, every message you send gets to developers blackberry, but quite a few are answered by experienced developers that are in that group for quite some time. With smaller groups and defined target audience you can provide better targeted answers that would suite that community better. As far as better inbox management - I would love to hear about something that works - but I have not seen anything that would do 10 way split for me. Sincerely Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:25 PM, Josh McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Define enterprise without resorting to some variation of mo' bettah What about best practices in Flex UI coding? Where do those posts go? And who decides what posts go in the advanced lists, and what go in the 101 list? Sounds like an invitation for grumpy nerds to flame noobs and scare them away from the community... I'm not suggesting we don't split the list at all, just that we put some serious thought into it first. Definitions of what belongs in what group, and a lot of publicly available information to help people locate the best list for their question. Maybe have some sort of community vote or something; we don't want to fracture the community, there's not *that* many of us yet. Personally I think the problems are at the moment best solved by clever inbox management. -Josh On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems -- Therefore, send not to know For whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. :: Josh 'G-Funk' McDonald :: 0437 221 380 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [flexcoders] Splitting FlexCoders in smaller, focused groups
This issue gets brought up periodically (and once by me), and at those times the mods have convinced me that we shouldn't (or at minimum had an argument against that was as good as the argument for). However, at this point in time, I think you have a point. In the past, I've answered more questions than I do now. Some of that is because I have been busy at work, and some of that is because a variety of reasons that are probably related to the group size. But I think splitting up the groups by user experience or complexity is a bad idea. For every new user at whom I just want to scream Read the docs! there are many who simply need a push in the right direction or have found a bug/idiosyncrasy in flex that they have no hope of figuring out unless they have someone with a little more experience telling them that they aren't going crazy. And we want those novices on the same list as the veterans. If a significant portion of the knowledgeable user base flees from the newbees, those new adopters won't have as good a chance of having their answers solved and the growth and quality of the community will be harmed. (I'm not saying it will take a nose dive or anything, but it won't be as good as it could be.) I think I could make a similar arguement for people who might be making the jump between intermediate to veteran, or business class, to enterprise class. (I know right now I'm on the border between business and enterprise class.) I agree that we should have some different lists differentiated on content. Key word there being 'some.' The more we divide, the more our knowledge is divided. Let's not go overboard. But I think with the release of BlazeDS, remoting now has enough traffic to get it's own group and we could define a clear set of content that would be in that group. A third group (or actually a forth group after flexcoders, flexcomponents, and remoting) might be useful, but I wouldn't endorse the idea unless someone else can suggest a good idea of what would go in that space that would be clearly differentiated by content, and allow users of all skill levels to join. - Daniel Freiman On Mon, Jun 16, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Anatole Tartakovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear All, Flexcoders has huge problem. In the last 15 month it is very much stagnant in terms of message count and participation. It is not growing and dropping members as fast as it gets them. I believe this group has overgrown the optimal size about a year ago and needs to be divided in more focused smaller groups. My mail box get 100+ messages a day on all kinds of topic - unless I can spend 30+ minutes that day to sort them out it goes directly into garbage can. Most people in the company unsubscribed from it 18 month ago. Most of veteran developers I know either unsubscribed or stopped looking in this mess greatly diminishing the quality of the responses. As a result group mostly host new developers and looses most of experienced ones after very short period of time. Further delay of breaking this group hinders usefulness of the group for all of us as now we have significant amount of users that are being forced out. I believe it is time to archive flexcoders and branch (12?) targeted new user groups I would like to see people suggesting user subgroups and WiKi topics for Flex community site to go with each group - providing best posts in more systematic way. I suggest the following Yahoo groups ( created couple for your convenience). Flex101: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/flex101/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EnterpriseFlex: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/enterpriseflex/ Post message: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] List owner: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FlexUI FlexDesign FlexSDK FlexDeployment FlexFlash FlexFrameworks FlexBestPractices EnterpriseFlex: FlexBlazeDS: weborb: Sincerely, Anatole Tartakovsky Farata Systems
