Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Russell Suter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I'm curious because I have a friend that does research on a Cessna 172 simulator that has an Onyx/IR with 3 channels. His simulator models are crap and his visual database is worse. I'm trying to talk him into trying FlightGear but I have zero idea of what performance would be like. It probably would be best if you simply ask him to try it out. And if he really does, then we might be interested in the FlightGear performance numbers and last but not least some information, on how that box is equipped. For most SGI models you can choose from a range of different CPU's and to my knowledge the Onyx is no exception (and it might be worse than the Octane ),, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Russell Suter wrote: It's been a while since I've worked on SGI equipment. I'm familiar with the O2 but I don't know what the video capabilites are. The hardware accelerated OpenGL compares roughly to a TNT2. Performance can increase when using a faster CPU. The last boxes I worked on were an Oxygen MXE and an Onyx 2 with 2 IR pipes and 4 channels. If you are familiar with these, how does your box stack up? I'm curious because I have a friend that does research on a Cessna 172 simulator that has an Onyx/IR with 3 channels. His simulator models are crap and his visual database is worse. I'm trying to talk him into trying FlightGear but I have zero idea of what performance would be like. Take a look here: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/comparison.html This table is based on performance reports from FlightGear users who have sgi equipment. But be aware that this is about the default startup position (stationary at KSFO) which seems a bit heavy on the scenery for alder hardware. There is a configuration file that can be used to fine tune FlightGear a bit on older video hardware which might give a performance improvement up to 500%. BTW, how do I determine what my visibility is? And, how do I reduce the fog at far clipping plane? You could use 'z' and 'Z' to change the fog settings. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Martin Spott wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: Russell Suter wrote: Okay, good to know. So what kind of SGI do you run on and what kind of frame rate do you get? That's not fair! You would laugh at me :-D (O2 RM5200/300Mhz at 2 ~ 10 fps but waiting to put a 900Mhz CPU in there which will come available in April). _That_ is not fair at all. I definitely need to contact your sponsor ;-) I'm afraid no sponsor has stepped in yet ... Any volunteers? Erik :-D ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a look here: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/comparison.html This table is based on performance reports from FlightGear users who have sgi equipment. But be aware that this is about the default startup position (stationary at KSFO) which seems a bit heavy on the scenery for alder hardware. I have the impression that the default position is very un-representative - because of two reasons: 1.) If you get only 3 fps and do some modifications on the hardware, an improvement of 10 % won't get noticed, because FG still talks about 3 fps, 2.) The amount of objects that are in viewable range on the default position varies very much over the time, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Martin Spott wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: Take a look here: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/comparison.html This table is based on performance reports from FlightGear users who have sgi equipment. But be aware that this is about the default startup position (stationary at KSFO) which seems a bit heavy on the scenery for alder hardware. I have the impression that the default position is very un-representative - because of two reasons: 1.) If you get only 3 fps and do some modifications on the hardware, an improvement of 10 % won't get noticed, because FG still talks about 3 fps, 2.) The amount of objects that are in viewable range on the default position varies very much over the time, True, and at the moment it's probably the worst place in FlightGear (performance wise). But it's hard to ask someone to give me the framerate for another controlled situation. Startup at KSFO is default. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman wrote: Russell Suter wrote: It's been a while since I've worked on SGI equipment. I'm familiar with the O2 but I don't know what the video capabilites are. The hardware accelerated OpenGL compares roughly to a TNT2. Performance can increase when using a faster CPU. The last boxes I worked on were an Oxygen MXE and an Onyx 2 with 2 IR pipes and 4 channels. If you are familiar with these, how does your box stack up? I'm curious because I have a friend that does research on a Cessna 172 simulator that has an Onyx/IR with 3 channels. His simulator models are crap and his visual database is worse. I'm trying to talk him into trying FlightGear but I have zero idea of what performance would be like. Take a look here: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/comparison.html Ouch! But that's much more than I could have hoped in terms of information. Thank you very much! What would be the visibility for this test? They currently max at 7 NM. I was most surprised with: Onyx2 IR2E R10K/250 4MB L2 4RM9/64MB: 4.79 This table is based on performance reports from FlightGear users who have sgi equipment. But be aware that this is about the default startup position (stationary at KSFO) which seems a bit heavy on the scenery for alder hardware. Actually, although they want the Bay Area some time in the future, their current database covers South Western U.S. but the projection is a poorly implemented Lambert-Conformal Conic projection. So, they really only have database latitudinally along a thin strip along the middle. They have only 2 airports with even a handful of buildings. Their database does, however, have lineals (roads, rivers, railroads). There is a configuration file that can be used to fine tune FlightGear a bit on older video hardware which might give a performance improvement up to 500%. I saw that. What's the units for visibililty? The file shows 1.0, but what are the units? BTW, how do I determine what my visibility is? And, how do I reduce the fog at far clipping plane? You could use 'z' and 'Z' to change the fog settings. Yea, that changes the settings but how do I know what the value is set to? Thanks!!! -- Russ Conway's Law: The structure of a system tends to mirror the structure of the group producing it. -- Mel Conway Datamation (1968) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
True, and at the moment it's probably the worst place in FlightGear (performance wise). But it's hard to ask someone to give me the framerate for another controlled situation. Startup at KSFO is default. By the way, is this with all of the buildings, etc? -- Russ Conway's Law: The structure of a system tends to mirror the structure of the group producing it. -- Mel Conway Datamation (1968) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Martin Spott wrote: Russell Suter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I'm curious because I have a friend that does research on a Cessna 172 simulator that has an Onyx/IR with 3 channels. His simulator models are crap and his visual database is worse. I'm trying to talk him into trying FlightGear but I have zero idea of what performance would be like. It probably would be best if you simply ask him to try it out. And if he really does, then we might be interested in the FlightGear performance numbers and last but not least some information, on how that box is equipped. For most SGI models you can choose from a range of different CPU's and to my knowledge the Onyx is no exception (and it might be worse than the Octane ),, Yea, that would be ideal but at the same time, that could be the kiss of death. If it came in unusable for testing then that kills it. The visual database is horribly inaccurate as to be unusable for certain experiments. As for worse performance than the Octane, the table Erik referenced shows that pretty clearly. They have an old Onyx with 4 R4000 chips. It was pretty hot... 12 years ago... Thanks. -- Russ Conway's Law: The structure of a system tends to mirror the structure of the group producing it. -- Mel Conway Datamation (1968) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Russell Suter wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: Take a look here: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/comparison.html Ouch! But that's much more than I could have hoped in terms of information. Thank you very much! What would be the visibility for this test? They currently max at 7 NM. All default settings. I was most surprised with: Onyx2 IR2E R10K/250 4MB L2 4RM9/64MB: 4.79 I have to state that I took this table because it compares quite accurately with the data sent to me (by email). So the actual numbers might differ, but the reports I have had were *very* close. This table is based on performance reports from FlightGear users who have sgi equipment. But be aware that this is about the default startup position (stationary at KSFO) which seems a bit heavy on the scenery for alder hardware. Actually, although they want the Bay Area some time in the future, their current database covers South Western U.S. but the projection is a poorly implemented Lambert-Conformal Conic projection. So, they really only have database latitudinally along a thin strip along the middle. They have only 2 airports with even a handful of buildings. Their database does, however, have lineals (roads, rivers, railroads). There is a configuration file that can be used to fine tune FlightGear a bit on older video hardware which might give a performance improvement up to 500%. I saw that. What's the units for visibililty? The file shows 1.0, but what are the units? It's in meters. BTW, how do I determine what my visibility is? And, how do I reduce the fog at far clipping plane? You could use 'z' and 'Z' to change the fog settings. Yea, that changes the settings but how do I know what the value is set to? Thanks!!! Use the property browser and search for /environment/visibility-m Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Russell Suter wrote: True, and at the moment it's probably the worst place in FlightGear (performance wise). But it's hard to ask someone to give me the framerate for another controlled situation. Startup at KSFO is default. By the way, is this with all of the buildings, etc? Well, it was with the buildings as presented a few months back ... Bit, as I said, you could turn off a lot of stuff (static buildings, random scenery objects and even clouds) and get good results. The questions is, is that acceptable for them. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman wrote: Russell Suter wrote: True, and at the moment it's probably the worst place in FlightGear (performance wise). But it's hard to ask someone to give me the framerate for another controlled situation. Startup at KSFO is default. By the way, is this with all of the buildings, etc? Well, it was with the buildings as presented a few months back ... Bit, as I said, you could turn off a lot of stuff (static buildings, random scenery objects and even clouds) and get good results. The questions is, is that acceptable for them. Yea, that's the question. Thanks to you and to Martin for all the info. Possibly (hopefully) more to come on this one... -- Russ Conway's Law: The structure of a system tends to mirror the structure of the group producing it. -- Mel Conway Datamation (1968) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Russell Suter wrote: That's gotta be faked. I don't think even a Onyx 3000 InfinitePerformance could provide that kind of frame rate. If so, I really gotta know... It's not fake ... It's just that the framerate counter doesn't stop in pause mode ... Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Jon Berndt wrote: cafepress.com Yeah, but the maintainer of the FlightGear goods (John Check?) doesn't seem to be around anymore. Erik Hi, Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Jon Stockill wrote: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Erik Hofman wrote: Hi, Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png For somewhere UK based - www.fotopic.net. It's mainly an online photo album system, but you can also order prints, shirts, mugs, mouse mats, etc etc. (It's only fair to tell you that I'm their sysadmin :-) So i take it you could arrange a few mouse pad (for the usual cost off course) for developers that want one? Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Matevz Jekovec wrote: Might want to add some flags to the FG logo before doing the press. (Slovene?) There's room for that. Which other flags do we want (except Slovene and Canada and India)? Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png The company I work for - here in Aachen - used to get printed mousepads for their customers. Although it's very resistet, it's still a laser copy and dark colours tend to be difficult to reproduce. They cost about 3 EUR each and they don't sell over an internet shop, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman wrote: Matevz Jekovec wrote: Might want to add some flags to the FG logo before doing the press. (Slovene?) There's room for that. Which other flags do we want (except Slovene and Canada and India)? How about this: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Erik Hofman wrote: So i take it you could arrange a few mouse pad (for the usual cost off course) for developers that want one? If we're doing a batch then we can probably do them a bit cheaper - I'll have a word with the rest of the team and see what we can come up with. -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Martin Spott wrote: Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png The company I work for - here in Aachen - used to get printed mousepads for their customers. Although it's very resistet, it's still a laser copy and dark colours tend to be difficult to reproduce. They cost about 3 EUR each and they don't sell over an internet shop, This does sound to me like then rather not do it, but it could be done? It looks like Jon Stockill also can provide them, so maybe it's better to go with that? Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Jon Stockill wrote: On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Erik Hofman wrote: So i take it you could arrange a few mouse pad (for the usual cost off course) for developers that want one? If we're doing a batch then we can probably do them a bit cheaper - I'll have a word with the rest of the team and see what we can come up with. That would be nice. I'd like to have a few then. Any other developers who want one (or more)? Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Martin Spott wrote: The company I work for - here in Aachen - used to get printed mousepads for their customers. Although it's very resistet, it's still a laser copy and dark colours tend to be difficult to reproduce. They cost about 3 EUR each and they don't sell over an internet shop, This does sound to me like then rather not do it, but it could be done? It looks like Jon Stockill also can provide them, so maybe it's better to go with that? Shure, it's easier for me not to ship dozends of mousepads with snail mail ;-) I wonder how 'they' do it - real printing (silk screen printing) is pretty expensive. Does anyone know which technique is used for those nice Sun mousepads ? Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That would be nice. I'd like to have a few then. Any other developers who want one (or more)? I don't count as a developer but I still would like to have one or two hands full Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman wrote: Russell Suter wrote: That's gotta be faked. I don't think even a Onyx 3000 InfinitePerformance could provide that kind of frame rate. If so, I really gotta know... It's not fake ... It's just that the framerate counter doesn't stop in pause mode ... Okay, good to know. So what kind of SGI do you run on and what kind of frame rate do you get? -- Russ Conway's Law: The structure of a system tends to mirror the structure of the group producing it. -- Mel Conway Datamation (1968) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Russell Suter wrote: Erik Hofman wrote: Russell Suter wrote: That's gotta be faked. I don't think even a Onyx 3000 InfinitePerformance could provide that kind of frame rate. If so, I really gotta know... It's not fake ... It's just that the framerate counter doesn't stop in pause mode ... Okay, good to know. So what kind of SGI do you run on and what kind of frame rate do you get? That's not fair! You would laugh at me :-D Erik (O2 RM5200/300Mhz at 2 ~ 10 fps but waiting to put a 900Mhz CPU in there which will come available in April). ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Russell Suter wrote: Okay, good to know. So what kind of SGI do you run on and what kind of frame rate do you get? That's not fair! You would laugh at me :-D (O2 RM5200/300Mhz at 2 ~ 10 fps but waiting to put a 900Mhz CPU in there which will come available in April). _That_ is not fair at all. I definitely need to contact your sponsor ;-) Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Erik Hofman wrote: Okay, good to know. So what kind of SGI do you run on and what kind of frame rate do you get? That's not fair! You would laugh at me :-D Nope. Never at you, but maybe with you... :-D (O2 RM5200/300Mhz at 2 ~ 10 fps but waiting to put a 900Mhz CPU in there which will come available in April). It's been a while since I've worked on SGI equipment. I'm familiar with the O2 but I don't know what the video capabilites are. The last boxes I worked on were an Oxygen MXE and an Onyx 2 with 2 IR pipes and 4 channels. If you are familiar with these, how does your box stack up? I'm curious because I have a friend that does research on a Cessna 172 simulator that has an Onyx/IR with 3 channels. His simulator models are crap and his visual database is worse. I'm trying to talk him into trying FlightGear but I have zero idea of what performance would be like. BTW, how do I determine what my visibility is? And, how do I reduce the fog at far clipping plane? -- Russ Conway's Law: The structure of a system tends to mirror the structure of the group producing it. -- Mel Conway Datamation (1968) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Hi, Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
cafepress.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Erik Hofman Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:12 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad Hi, Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
nice layout... is this a faked frame rate? ;-) if not pretty good. how come? Quoting Erik Hofman [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Hof Markus wrote: nice layout... is this a faked frame rate? ;-) if not pretty good. how come? Probably because Eric runs on sgi hardware. :-) Curt. -- Curtis Olson Intelligent Vehicles Lab FlightGear Project Twin Cities[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota http://www.menet.umn.edu/~curt http://www.flightgear.org ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
Might want to add some flags to the FG logo before doing the press. (Slovene?) - Matevz Jon Berndt wrote: cafepress.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Erik Hofman Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:12 PM To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad Hi, Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004, Erik Hofman wrote: Hi, Does anybody know a good place to print a mouse pad: http://www.a1.nl/~ehofman/fgfs/gallery/fgfs-mousepad.png For somewhere UK based - www.fotopic.net. It's mainly an online photo album system, but you can also order prints, shirts, mugs, mouse mats, etc etc. (It's only fair to tell you that I'm their sysadmin :-) -- Jon Stockill [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear mouse pad
That's gotta be faked. I don't think even a Onyx 3000 InfinitePerformance could provide that kind of frame rate. If so, I really gotta know... Curtis L. Olson wrote: Hof Markus wrote: nice layout... is this a faked frame rate? ;-) if not pretty good. how come? Probably because Eric runs on sgi hardware. :-) Curt. -- Russ Conway's Law: The structure of a system tends to mirror the structure of the group producing it. -- Mel Conway Datamation (1968) ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
