Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* David Megginson -- Saturday 03 November 2007: I think it's great that FlightGear added head lag to the sim -- it's a good alternative when the pilot can't feel forces -- but I think we'd do better to model it based on perceived forces, not on roll/yaw/pitch damping. Not sure if you are talking about dynamic view, but this *isn't* supposed to change the view based on physical forces. The first three lines in $FG_ROOT/Nasal/dynamic_view.nas are: # Dynamic Cockpit View manager. Tries to simulate the pilot's most likely # deliberate view direction. Doesn't consider forced view changes due to # acceleration. And that's how I wanted it to be. I'm not a RL pilot, but I consider it quite unlikely that a pilot flies a left turn and doesn't look left, or strongly pitches up and doesn't look up. Usually we want to know in which objects we are about to crash. :-) There are some implementations of forced head changes used in various aircraft (head shaking), but those are IMHO too unrealistic, as they treat the head only as a mass on a spring, and completely disregard the physiology of the eye/equilibrium organ/brain system. If we could agree on one that *feels* realistic, then I would be willing to integrate it in dynamic view. But so far we didn't. For example, simply entering a coordinated bank gently shouldn't cause [...] Would anyone object to my checking in some changes over the next week or two to change this? Please post your suggested changes as a patch to the list or send them to me. Simply changing the code is not an option. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
On Fri, 2 Nov 2007 22:24:42 -0400 David Megginson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's great that FlightGear added head lag to the sim -- it's a good alternative when the pilot can't feel forces -- but I think we'd do better to model it based on perceived forces, not on roll/yaw/pitch damping. For example, simply entering a coordinated bank gently shouldn't cause any head movement at all, but flying straight in a forward slip should, because there's a yaw force pulling the head slightly sideways. Likewise, while the pilot is perceiving 1G the head should move up a bit, and while the pilot is perceiving 1G, the head should move down a bit. Would anyone object to my checking in some changes over the next week or two to change this? We can always roll them back if they don't work. All the best, David I had at one point an eyepoint up and down movement based on g forces , sounds like what your talking about , but several people claimed that it was unrealistic it was mainly , for my purpose, to feel runway contact some aircraft dont screech their tires loud enough ;) Im not sure how else one is supposed to simulate those effects , but obvoiusly my method didn't fly ... Looking at videos taken by passengers , you can certainly see these forces ... and as a passenger , I have definately sunk in my seat ( no head springs involved ), so I still use it myself ... Cheers -- SydSandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* Melchior FRANZ -- Saturday 03 November 2007: they treat the head only as a mass on a spring, and completely disregard the physiology of the eye/equilibrium organ/brain system. Maybe I should clarify: My idea was not that view changes based on acceleration/inertia should be even more sophisticated, but actually less so. I find the 12 adjustable parameters (of which nobody ever changes a single one, but which are read in in every single loop iteration), a bit exaggerated. The hits that one gets on touchdown with it are IMHO unrealistic. If I look ahead and focus on the runway, then even a rough takedown won't make me lose the focus abruptly. The gear takes some force, the seat takes some, the spine does, and a lot of the rest is just compensated by the brain. And that's beyond computability, so we can just make it feel right. But you as pilot are certainly better qualified to judge that than I am. Please post your suggested changes as a patch to the list or send them to me. Simply changing the code is not an option. And that's only because that code is actively maintained, by a single person -- by me. :-) And just like Nasal, YASim, JSBSim and some other code, this code isn't yet free for uncoordinated modification by the community. Normally that's not so strict, of course. (I'm aware that you contributed significant parts of TerraGear, SimGear and FlightGear. :-) But maybe you aren't even talking about Dynamic View? m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* SydSandy -- Saturday 03 November 2007: Looking at videos taken by passengers , you can certainly see these forces ... Umm, but the videos taken by them don't show what their brain sees. Our brain is a *lot* better at stabilizing the image than most of the camera stabilizers. Simulating the pilot view is not just physics. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
David Sent: 03 November 2007 02:25 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag I think it's great that FlightGear added head lag to the sim -- it's a good alternative when the pilot can't feel forces -- but I think we'd do better to model it based on perceived forces, not on roll/yaw/pitch damping. For example, simply entering a coordinated bank gently shouldn't cause any head movement at all, but flying straight in a forward slip should, because there's a yaw force pulling the head slightly sideways. Likewise, while the pilot is perceiving 1G the head should move up a bit, and while the pilot is perceiving 1G, the head should move down a bit. Would anyone object to my checking in some changes over the next week or two to change this? We can always roll them back if they don't work. As Melchior said, the head-shake mechanism does indeed regard the head as a mass and a (damped) spring, but it's a bit more sophisticated than that - the resistance of the neck muscles are modelled as well. (The distance moved in various directions are measured from my own body strapped into a 4 point harness - YMMV). I think that aspect is quite well simulated. The original code was written by Josh Babcock, but the math was heavily modified by me. The code structure could do with review and revision. I keep on meaning to make this more sophisticated by stabilizing the eye viewpoint, but never got around to it. While theoretically necessary, I'm not absolutely sure that would improve the appearance of the simulation much. Regards, Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
On 03/11/2007, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Not sure if you are talking about dynamic view, but this *isn't* supposed to change the view based on physical forces. The first three lines in $FG_ROOT/Nasal/dynamic_view.nas are: # Dynamic Cockpit View manager. Tries to simulate the pilot's most likely # deliberate view direction. Doesn't consider forced view changes due to # acceleration. I had been looking at dampEyeData in src/Main/viewer.cxx, assuming that was causing the problem. I wasn't looking at any NASAL code. Is the NASAL code enabled by default? And that's how I wanted it to be. I'm not a RL pilot, but I consider it quite unlikely that a pilot flies a left turn and doesn't look left, or strongly pitches up and doesn't look up. Usually we want to know in which objects we are about to crash. :-) I can't speak for every pilot, but that doesn't jibe at all with my real-life experience. I hadn't noticed the problem so much in VFR flights, but flying FlightGear for an IFR approach, I actually lost control of the Warrior twice before I figured out what was going on. When you're flying IFR in actual IMC, you try to keep your head as still as possible no matter which way you move the controls. Even flying VFR in good day VMC, it's common (for me, at least) to look *before* I start a maneuver then return my head to the straight-forward position while I actually fly it, so that I can use outside references properly. Finally, the position you move the controls isn't necessarily the direction the plane will move. For example, on approach you'll be pitching the nose up but the plane's moving down. Forces give a more realistic head movement, I think, because the head moves only if something unusual is happening, like an uncoordinated turn or high/low G forces. It's OK to disrupt the pilot in that case. There are some implementations of forced head changes used in various aircraft (head shaking), but those are IMHO too unrealistic, as they treat the head only as a mass on a spring, and completely disregard the physiology of the eye/equilibrium organ/brain system. If we could agree on one that *feels* realistic, then I would be willing to integrate it in dynamic view. But so far we didn't. A spring's not quite right. I think any movement should be very slight (max 2 cm), and could track the forces on the pilot (maybe using a squared function so that minor forces have virtually no effect and major forces are obvious). The head should be perfectly centred when the pilot feels 1G in the (plane-referenced) vertical axis and 0G in the forward and side axes. No matter what, though, the head should not swivel unless the user decides to swivel it. All the best, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
On 03/11/2007, SydSandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looking at videos taken by passengers , you can certainly see these forces ... and as a passenger , I have definately sunk in my seat ( no head springs involved ), so I still use it myself ... Yes, that's much more realistic, and in fact, it's something we study during flight training -- in a coordinated 60-degree steep, level turn, you pull 2Gs and will feel yourself press very heavily down into your seat (though it's unlikely that you sink more than 1-2 cm). Note, however, that there's *no* sideways force at all if the turn is coordinated -- it's all straight down (plane referenced). If you put a spirit level on the top of the panel in a coordinated turn, the bubble would stay exactly centred. When I descend quickly, say, approaching a runway for landing when I had to clear some trees, I'll feel the opposite effect -- my head will move up maybe .5 cm, and my shoulder will press hard against the shoulder strap for a sec, then I return to normal Gs. All the best, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
On 03/11/2007, Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Melchior said, the head-shake mechanism does indeed regard the head as a mass and a (damped) spring, but it's a bit more sophisticated than that - the resistance of the neck muscles are modelled as well. Which is enabled by default -- head-shake or dynamic views -- and how do we change the default? Thanks, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
David Megginson writes: I think it's great that FlightGear added head lag to the sim -- it's a good alternative when the pilot can't feel forces -- but I think we'd do better to model it based on perceived forces, not on roll/yaw/pitch damping. For example, simply entering a coordinated bank gently shouldn't cause any head movement at all, but flying straight in a forward slip should, because there's a yaw force pulling the head slightly sideways. Likewise, while the pilot is perceiving 1G the head should move up a bit, and while the pilot is perceiving 1G, the head should move down a bit. FWIW Expressing this elegantly is best done using Quaternions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slerp http://number-none.com/product/Understanding%20Slerp,%20Then%20Not%20Using%2 0It/ Both OSG and PLIB support Quats Norman - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* David Megginson -- Saturday 03 November 2007:
Which is enabled by default -- head-shake or dynamic views -- and how
do we change the default?
head-shake is implemented by various aircraft and can usually
not be turned off interactively (and usually breaks view adjustment via
(Ctrl-)MMB-dragging)[1]. Dynamic view is off by default, configurable
via Menu (View-Toggle Dynamic Cockpit View), and its state saved
to the autosave.xml file.
m.
[1] but you can open the Debug-Nasal Console and type in, for example,
buccaneer.headShake = func {} or put that in a local *.nas file.
Unfortunately, you have to do that per aircraft type.
-
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* David Megginson -- Saturday 03 November 2007: I had been looking at dampEyeData in src/Main/viewer.cxx, assuming that was causing the problem. That's only for views, which set the damping values. At the moment it's only used for Chase View. I wasn't looking at any NASAL code. Is the NASAL code enabled by default? Not dynamic view (as explained in the other email), but headshakers usually are. I can't speak for every pilot, but that doesn't jibe at all with my real-life experience. I hadn't noticed the problem so much in VFR flights, but flying FlightGear for an IFR approach, I actually lost control of the Warrior twice before I figured out what was going on. Dynamic View assumes that you look out the window, and it would be stupid not to look left when you fly a left turn. You can either do it via joystick hat or mouse, or have it done automatically. But, of course, when you are fixating the panel, there's no point in getting the view forced left in a left turn. Of course, in that case the brain would stabilize the view on the panel. It would be hard to make dynamic view recognize what you really want. You have to tell it. That's why it's configurable and off by default. Finally, the position you move the controls isn't necessarily the direction the plane will move. For example, on approach you'll be pitching the nose up but the plane's moving down. Which is done in the helicopter mode. Patches to improve either mode are welcomed. :-) Forces give a more realistic head movement, [...] Yes, but dynamic view isn't for that. headshakers are. And I would combine that if we could agree on reasonable headshaking, which to the day we couldn't. I'd be glad if not every single aircraft would have to re-invent that wheel. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* David Megginson -- Saturday 03 November 2007: I wasn't looking at any NASAL code. Is the NASAL code enabled by default? While you were away, we got support for automatically saving GUI settings to an ~/.fgfs/autosave.xml file, and you might have enabled dynamic view at some fgfs run, and now you get it until you turn it off again. You wouldn't be the first to interpret that as an unwelcome default setting. :-) m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
On 11/3/07, Melchior FRANZ wrote: * David Megginson -- Saturday 03 November 2007: I wasn't looking at any NASAL code. Is the NASAL code enabled by default? While you were away, we got support for automatically saving GUI settings to an ~/.fgfs/autosave.xml file, and you might have enabled dynamic view at some fgfs run, and now you get it until you turn it off again. You wouldn't be the first to interpret that as an unwelcome default setting. :-) Hi Melchior, I suspect there may be an aircraft in the fleet that turns this setting on for you, so it's not necesarilly have to involve a concious decision to end up with this as your default. For me it showed up for a while, then went away so I didn't take the time to investigate. Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* Curtis Olson -- Saturday 03 November 2007: I suspect there may be an aircraft in the fleet that turns this setting on for you, [...] No, I don't think so. I've checked the whole tree a few times for that. And now I did again. There's only the bo105 (and derivatives) which defines a key binding for it (Alt-v). And some aircraft (buccaneer and ch47) enable dynamic-view for an additional view, but that doesn't turn it on. It just says that *iff* dynamic is turned on globally (/sim/current-view/dynamic-view), then it should also be applied to that view, in addition to cockpit view. m. PS: Yes, I just changed the global flag from /sim/view[0]/dynamic/enabled to /sim/current-view/dynamic-view, so at least for now it will again be turned off for *everyone*. (I did it because the setting doesn't belong to view[0] anymore, not because of this discussion. :-) - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* Melchior FRANZ -- Saturday 03 November 2007: * David Megginson -- Saturday 03 November 2007: I had been looking at dampEyeData in src/Main/viewer.cxx, assuming that was causing the problem. That's only for views, which set the damping values. At the moment it's only used for Chase View. BTW: I think this should really be removed from the viewer code and implemented in Nasal, just like the FlyBy view. I'll look into that. m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
On 03/11/2007, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * David Megginson -- Saturday 03 November 2007: I wasn't looking at any NASAL code. Is the NASAL code enabled by default? While you were away, we got support for automatically saving GUI settings to an ~/.fgfs/autosave.xml file, and you might have enabled dynamic view at some fgfs run, and now you get it until you turn it off again. You wouldn't be the first to interpret that as an unwelcome default setting. :-) That was it. I was also mislead by seeing dynamic-view type=booltrue/dynamic-view In $FG_ROOT/preferences.xml, without noticing dynamic enabled type=bool userarchive=yfalse/enabled /dynamic just below it. I have no problem with having it as a feature -- it's a neat and original idea -- but it might be worth reconsidering the up/down movement. While pulling back on the yoke/stick may make a jet fighter shoot upwards, with a regular plane it's just as likely intended to slow the plane down. One of the first points made in the classic book Stick and Rudder (worth reading for any real or sim pilot) is that the yoke/stick is *not* an up/down control. All the best, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
* David Megginson -- Saturday 03 November 2007: it might be worth reconsidering the up/down movement. While pulling back on the yoke/stick may make a jet fighter shoot upwards, with a regular plane it's just as likely intended to slow the plane down. Yes, this was targeted at fighter jets. In helicopter mode I do this depending on the airspeed. The effect is stronger the slower you are, and disappears above 60 kt or something. This is so that you keep the landing spot in focus while you are flaring/braking. Looking up in the sky is the last that you want at that moment. :-) I should do something similar for planes. Of course, this is still configurable per aircraft, too. Just not via properties, but by defining a Nasal handler. I'll review that. And again: I appreciate suggestions for improvements or patches. Just not commits to that nasal file. You don't know how picky I am! ;-) m. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
David Sent: 03 November 2007 15:58 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag On 03/11/2007, Melchior FRANZ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I should do something similar for planes. Of course, this is still configurable per aircraft, too. Just not via properties, but by defining a Nasal handler. I'll review that. And again: I appreciate suggestions for improvements or patches. Just not commits to that nasal file. You don't know how picky I am! ;-) Now that I understand what it's for (and the fact that it's not enabled by default), I don't plan to touch it -- and as I mentioned, it is a cool idea. I would like to get some kind of force-based head lag working, through. As I said before, but perhaps you didn't notice, we already have a force based system working on the input of pilot g. It moves the pilot's eye position according to this input. And as Melchior pointed out, we probably need to stabilise the point at which the pilot looks to make this totally realistic. Try the Hunter to see it in action (together with black/redout). Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
On 03/11/2007, Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I said before, but perhaps you didn't notice, we already have a force based system working on the input of pilot g. It moves the pilot's eye position according to this input. And as Melchior pointed out, we probably need to stabilise the point at which the pilot looks to make this totally realistic. Is there a way to enable it in general, without tying to a specific aircraft model? Thanks, David - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] The Big Monitor show at FSWeekend,
Hi Everybody, One thing that probably stands out at this year's FlightGear booth is that we had 6 more monitors than presenters, and that the monitor to presenter ratio at the booth is 3:1. This leaves the question as to how many presenters were at the booth, given that this number is a prime. Torsten, Durk, and one developer who again wishes to remain anonymous, had a pretty good show today, with a bit of a slow start. Initially, we had some performance issues on the windows machine, and some minor bugs to solve, but these problems were gradually resolved during the day. Many people asked how we could compete with big companies like microsoft, or were wondering about our motivation to start this program. Upon explaining, most people were actually quite impressed by the fact that just a bunch of volunteers were able to accomplish such a big feat. We did get the occasional comment that our (scenery) graphics were a bit simple. We'll be back tomorrow for another day of fun and flying. In the mean time, here's a quick impression. More to follow later. http://www.t3r.de/fsweekend.jpg Cheers, Torsten, Durk, Martin - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The Big Monitor show at FSWeekend,
Torsten, Durk, and one developer who again wishes to remain anonymous, had a pretty good show today, with a bit of a slow start. Initially, we had some performance issues on the windows machine, and some minor bugs to solve, but these problems were gradually resolved during the day. Many people asked how we could compete with big companies like microsoft, or were wondering about our motivation to start this program. Upon explaining, most people were actually quite impressed by the fact that just a bunch of volunteers were able to accomplish such a big feat. http://www.t3r.de/fsweekend.jpg Cheers, Torsten, Durk, Martin So, who is who in the picture? :-) Jon - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] The Big Monitor show at FSWeekend,
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Durk Talsma Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 5:30 PM To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: [Flightgear-devel] The Big Monitor show at FSWeekend, Hi Everybody, One thing that probably stands out at this year's FlightGear booth is that we had 6 more monitors than presenters, and that the monitor to presenter ratio at the booth is 3:1. This leaves the question as to how many presenters were at the booth, given that this number is a prime. Torsten, Durk, and one developer who again wishes to remain anonymous, had a pretty good show today, with a bit of a slow start. Initially, we had some performance issues on the windows machine, and some minor bugs to solve, but these problems were gradually resolved during the day. Many people asked how we could compete with big companies like microsoft, or were wondering about our motivation to start this program. Upon explaining, most people were actually quite impressed by the fact that just a bunch of volunteers were able to accomplish such a big feat. We did get the occasional comment that our (scenery) graphics were a bit simple. We'll be back tomorrow for another day of fun and flying. In the mean time, here's a quick impression. More to follow later. http://www.t3r.de/fsweekend.jpg Cheers, Torsten, Durk, Martin What was the intent behind displaying at the show? I'm sure it wasn't free for a booth, was it? I've given the same idea some thought, but it's hard to make money off of something that is free. Bill - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag
David Sent: 03 November 2007 19:19 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Fixing head lag On 03/11/2007, Vivian Meazza [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I said before, but perhaps you didn't notice, we already have a force based system working on the input of pilot g. It moves the pilot's eye position according to this input. And as Melchior pointed out, we probably need to stabilise the point at which the pilot looks to make this totally realistic. Is there a way to enable it in general, without tying to a specific aircraft model? I'm afraid not - it's in all my models, but it has not been picked up as something we want as a generic feature. It's only a moderate number of Nasal lines of code. Wouldn't take much to do make it generic. I think would like to tidy up the code first, but ... Vivian - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Syd's Robinson R22
Hi Syd and all, I could not go to bed when I saw that you uploaded the first files of this helo to CVS, waited some time, downloaded and tested it. Thank you very much. I enjoyed my test-flights (used some different airports on the world with different winds) very much. And I was very surprised about the flightmodel in this early development stage. Ok, you really have to do a lot (!!!) pedalwork and this little helo really likes to put the nose into the wind, but that is what I expected from such a light helicopter. But hovering, HIGE and HOGE, and landing are pretty nice (if you have the nose +/- 30 deg into the wind you can even kiss the ground very soft). It was a little more tricky to get down on my home landing platform, which was 90 deg to the wind - but also possible. Normal flight-maneuvers (I did not test autorotation) are also pretty nice (as far as I could test it within the short time). AND you made a close-up panel like for the S76, especially very nice for those days in the future when we can sim features of a piston helo and want to check the instruments a little more (although the governor of the Robinson eases much, you must be able to maintain rotor RPM without the governor //emergency training). To have a R22 in the sim is especially nice as you can find so much documentation and training-instructions on the net. And it is a demanding helo if you want to learn to fly within the flight-envelope. Ok, this was just to share my enthusiasm about your new project with you :-) and all other readers. Thank you once again. Regards Georg EDDW - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] OT Re: Syd's Robinson R22
On Saturday 03 November 2007 22:08, Georg Vollnhals wrote: Hi Syd and all, I could not go to bed when I saw that you uploaded the first files of this helo to CVS, waited some time, downloaded and tested it. Thank you very much. I enjoyed my test-flights (used some different airports on the world with different winds) very much. Regards Georg EDDW http://www.innovator.mosquito.net.nz/mbbs2/index.asp I was looking at some ultralights today and ran across a mosquito helicopter that some of the pilots say they preferred over the R-22. Just found it interesting. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Syd's Robinson R22
On 11/3/07, Georg Vollnhals wrote: To have a R22 in the sim is especially nice as you can find so much documentation and training-instructions on the net. And it is a demanding helo if you want to learn to fly within the flight-envelope. Not to mention that it's a beautifully done 3d model with a great glass reflection effect for the canopy (at least under the OSG version.) Curt. -- Curtis Olson: http://baron.flightgear.org/~curt/ Unique text: 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Syd's Robinson R22
On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 22:23:08 -0500 Curtis Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/3/07, Georg Vollnhals wrote: Thank for the encouraging reviews ... According to the documentation I read , it is very sensitive to control inputs ... but Im afraid I haven't found airfoil numbers , so I'm relying on Maik (again) to fix it :) (Sorry Maik , it's your fault I'm a helicopter nut now ! ) Cheers -- SydSandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: SimGear
2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear source
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-11-02_13:45:59 (curt) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Main/fg_init.cxx /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Main/options.cxx Add a --vehicle= option which is an exact synonym for --aircraft= but is more natural for selecting ground vehicles which are not aircraft. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-11-03_12:01:03 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Network/httpd.cxx sorting nodes - don't use shared pointer =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-11-03_16:01:48 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/source/src/Main/fg_init.cxx Csaba HALASZ: fix IVSI instrument problem I have been investigating the Concorde IVSI problem. I came to the conclusion that the trouble is that the environment altitude and thus the pressure (which is calculated from that) is lagging by 1 frame. Normally that wouldn't be a problem, but the IVSI calculates rate of change and it will use the new dt with the old value difference, thereby arriving at bad results if dt changes (and it does). 2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Weekly CVS Changelog Summary: FlightGear data
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-28_19:49:14 (helijah) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/PanelLabels.rgb - Instruments udapte by Jon Stockill =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-28_19:49:15 (helijah) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/AI/AI.ac /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/AI/AI.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/AI/AI1.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/AI/AI2.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/Clock/Clock.ac /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/Clock/Clock.xml - Instruments udapte by Jon Stockill =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-28_19:49:16 (helijah) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/Turn/Turn.ac /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/Turn/Turn.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Grob-G115/Models/Instruments/Turn/Turn.xml - Instruments udapte by Jon Stockill =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-29_23:26:41 (sydadams) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/ch47/ch47d.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/ch47/instrumentation.xml added side windows .. resized front doors ...too wide Started on gauges ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-29_23:26:42 (sydadams) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/ch47/Models/CH47.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/ch47/Models/ch47.ac /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/ch47/Models/paint1.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/ch47/Models/paint2.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/ch47/Models/paint3.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/ch47/Models/paint4.rgb added side windows .. resized front doors ...too wide Started on gauges ... =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-31_10:32:59 (gerard) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Models/Textures/ondul.rgb *** empty log message *** =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-31_10:36:12 (gerard) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/LIS-MOI_GNU-GPL /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/AOA-bb.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Disjoncteur-bb.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Models/aoa-bb.ac instruments and nasal scripts update =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-31_10:36:13 (gerard) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Models/disjoncteur.ac /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/Instruments/Models/Textures/aoa-bb.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/System/aar.nas /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/System/crash.nas /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/SR71-BlackBird/System/terrain.nas instruments and nasal scripts update =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-31_21:13:46 (curt) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/snowplow-set.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/snowplow-sound.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/snowplow-splash.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/snowplow-yasim.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/snowplow-yasim001.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/snowplow-yasim002.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/Dialogs/config.xml /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/Models/Snowplow.xml Initial revision of snowplow model / truck control workshop. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-10-31_21:13:47 (curt) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/Models/snowplow.ac /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/snowplow/Nasal/truck.nas Initial revision of snowplow model / truck control workshop. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-11-01_14:56:50 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-6E/Models/afcs-panel.rgb /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-6E/Models/afcs.ac Alexis BORY: New autopilot panel, fix to the TC radar =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-11-01_14:56:51 (mfranz) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/A-6E/Models/afcs.xml Alexis BORY: New autopilot panel, fix to the TC radar =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-11-01_16:09:46 (vmmeazza) /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Buccaneer/Models/Effects/fuel.osg /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Buccaneer/Models/Effects/fuel.xml Add visual effects for fuel jettison =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2007-11-01_16:10:24 (vmmeazza)
