Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
On 20 Oct 2008, at 14:26, Tim Moore wrote: > PUI, the plib widget code, doesn't use the plib sg or ssg graphics > stuff, except > for a couple of type definitions. It would be a fine plan to suck > PUI into > FlightGear and make it play nicely with OSG. Good to know - I'd assumed PUI was built on the SSG layers, precluding this. Seems strange to me, but it's beneficial now, so I won't complain. > I don't propose to replace all the > OpenGL code with OSG constructs, but using and setting the OSG state > in a > predictable way would eliminate the need for hacks and would make > the GUI usable > on more than one screen. Agreed, that sounds like a very sensible approach, and hopefully not overly complex. > I think osgWidget will take a while to mature. AFIAK things we take > for granted > like text field entry don't work at all; it's hard to get that kind > of thing right. Yes, and with a OSG native PUI, there's no need to rush such a change. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
James Turner wrote: > On 20 Oct 2008, at 10:18, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > >> AFAIK that's not an option ATM. osgWidget is very new and was >> committed only a few weeks ago. It still only offers basic >> widgets, like plain buttons, text, menu, (tabbed) dialogs. >> Buttons are only colored rectangles, with no "3D" appearance >> etc. I haven't seen anything "advanced" like comboboxes, list >> widgets, checkboxes etc. I think it will take another few >> months until we can seriously consider switching. But then a >> migration might not even be that much work. > > I knew it was 'new', didn't realise it was quite that basic. > Definitely best to wait until it matures some more. As you say, once > it provides all (or nearly all) of the required widgets then hopefully > migration will not be too difficult. > > I also realised there are probably some other pieces of the code that > still rely on sg or ssg types or functions, I guess Tim has more of an PUI, the plib widget code, doesn't use the plib sg or ssg graphics stuff, except for a couple of type definitions. It would be a fine plan to suck PUI into FlightGear and make it play nicely with OSG. I don't propose to replace all the OpenGL code with OSG constructs, but using and setting the OSG state in a predictable way would eliminate the need for hacks and would make the GUI usable on more than one screen. I think osgWidget will take a while to mature. AFIAK things we take for granted like text field entry don't work at all; it's hard to get that kind of thing right. Tim - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
* Melchior FRANZ -- Monday 20 October 2008: > - (non-gui) fonts (i.e. texture fonts on instruments etc.) Whoops, no. That's already converted to OSG. Only "non-gui" fonts like the frame-rate counter and the ATC/multiplayer messages are concerned. But those aren't actually non-gui, they are just on fully transparent dialogs. m. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
* James Turner -- Monday 20 October 2008: > I also realised there are probably some other pieces of the code that > still rely on sg or ssg types or functions, - gui - (non-gui) fonts (i.e. texture fonts on instruments etc.) - joystick - networking and whatever they depend on. m. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
* James Turner -- Monday 20 October 2008: > Anyone care to speculate on how much work it would be to > migrate from pu to osgWidget? AFAIK that's not an option ATM. osgWidget is very new and was committed only a few weeks ago. It still only offers basic widgets, like plain buttons, text, menu, (tabbed) dialogs. Buttons are only colored rectangles, with no "3D" appearance etc. I haven't seen anything "advanced" like comboboxes, list widgets, checkboxes etc. I think it will take another few months until we can seriously consider switching. But then a migration might not even be that much work. m. - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
On 20 Oct 2008, at 10:18, Melchior FRANZ wrote: > AFAIK that's not an option ATM. osgWidget is very new and was > committed only a few weeks ago. It still only offers basic > widgets, like plain buttons, text, menu, (tabbed) dialogs. > Buttons are only colored rectangles, with no "3D" appearance > etc. I haven't seen anything "advanced" like comboboxes, list > widgets, checkboxes etc. I think it will take another few > months until we can seriously consider switching. But then a > migration might not even be that much work. I knew it was 'new', didn't realise it was quite that basic. Definitely best to wait until it matures some more. As you say, once it provides all (or nearly all) of the required widgets then hopefully migration will not be too difficult. I also realised there are probably some other pieces of the code that still rely on sg or ssg types or functions, I guess Tim has more of an idea what those might be. James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
On 18 Oct 2008, at 19:06, AJ MacLeod wrote: > Opinions on that? It seems unfortunate, to say the least, that we > are unable > to support widely available good quality controller hardware because > of our > reliance on apparently dead projects... I wondered about this myself - the problem as I see it is that we're still using pu for the widgets, which means we need ssg, which means we need sg. I think we use the net layer as well, though that's a pretty thin layer over BSD sockets. So, at the moment, doing this means bringing in maybe 75% of PLIB, which seems counter-productive. It should be fine to move the Joystick module over now, though, and just drop / migrate other pieces incrementally. Anyone care to speculate on how much work it would be to migrate from pu to osgWidget? Regards, James - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
AJ wrote: > The point was raised by others that perhaps now the time has come for us to > suck the parts of plib we still rely on into the FG tree, which would remove > the long standing problems with getting fixes into PLIB and releases on a > less than glacial timescale. Of course, it would also reduce our dependency > list by one item, which is always a good thing! > > Opinions on that? It seems unfortunate, to say the least, that we are unable > to support widely available good quality controller hardware because of our > reliance on apparently dead projects... I think this makes sense. On a related note, I heard from a number of comments on the FG Forum that WIndows Vista isn't exporting the joystick identification strings for a lot of joysticks - so instead of "Saitek EVO superstik" js_demo displays "Generic USB Input Device", or similar. This breaks our lovely auto-detect code. I don't run Vista myself, so I have been unable to investigate whether this is a general limitation, or specific to some devices. If it is a general limitation, we may have to improve our joystick support to allow users to select a joystick by name at runtime, either on the command-line/wizard or within a dialog in the simulator. Unfortunately I suspect this is both hard, and thankless work :( -Stuart Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
> I have recently discovered that FG is unable to properly support > controllers with more than 32 buttons. That may seem like a very minor > limitation, but in fact it hits not only current consumer-level joysticks > like the Saitek X52 Pro but also many hobbyist USB HID boards (like this > one, for example http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836A/ ). > [..] > Opinions on that? It seems unfortunate, to say the least, that we are > unable to support widely available good quality controller hardware because > of our reliance on apparently dead projects... True! I have am working with ATMEGA processors to build my own hardware. It is fairly easy and cheap (just a few EURO) to build a 42 button, 16 axes joystick. Currently I have to work around the plib limitations and split up the functionality by emulating multiple joysticks - what a waste of resources... So for my point of view, getting rid of that limitation is a plus. I have no idea, if there are any license issues. And - someone has to do the job... Torsten - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] FG joystick support limitations / absorbing PLIB
Hi all, I have recently discovered that FG is unable to properly support controllers with more than 32 buttons. That may seem like a very minor limitation, but in fact it hits not only current consumer-level joysticks like the Saitek X52 Pro but also many hobbyist USB HID boards (like this one, for example http://www.leobodnar.com/products/BU0836A/ ). Csaba has tracked down the the problematic bits of code and kindly provided a patch for both PLIB and FG... however, getting a patch into PLIB and getting a new PLIB release (which would be required for the FG patch to work) seems unlikely within tolerable timescales. The point was raised by others that perhaps now the time has come for us to suck the parts of plib we still rely on into the FG tree, which would remove the long standing problems with getting fixes into PLIB and releases on a less than glacial timescale. Of course, it would also reduce our dependency list by one item, which is always a good thing! Opinions on that? It seems unfortunate, to say the least, that we are unable to support widely available good quality controller hardware because of our reliance on apparently dead projects... Cheers, AJ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK & win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100&url=/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
