Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
http://www.androidzoom.com/android_games/cards_and_casino/flight-simulation_xcuh.html how long should we tolerate such... -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Michael, What do you suggest be done? And perhaps you could do something? Otherwise we do nothing, and it's caveat emptor. Vivian -Original Message- From: Michael Sgier [mailto:scrat_h...@yahoo.com] Sent: 12 June 2011 10:58 To: FlightGear developers discussions Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator http://www.androidzoom.com/android_games/cards_and_casino/flight-simulation_ xcuh.html how long should we tolerate such... -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On 12.06.2011 11:58, Michael Sgier wrote: http://www.androidzoom.com/android_games/cards_and_casino/flight-simulation_xcuh.html how long should we tolerate such... We've had that before. This 15KB app doesn't even contain a FlightSimulator. And it doesn't do anything (so I doubt it contains a single line of FG code). See comments on that site: pure fake application!. There's loads of fake apps being offered. Not nice. But what's that got to do with FlightGear? Or with our license? Those are pure scams unrelated to anything. cheers, Thorsten -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:26:05 +0200, ThorstenB wrote in message 4df4943d.3030...@gmail.com: On 12.06.2011 11:58, Michael Sgier wrote: http://www.androidzoom.com/android_games/cards_and_casino/flight-simulation_xcuh.html how long should we tolerate such... We've had that before. This 15KB app doesn't even contain a FlightSimulator. And it doesn't do anything (so I doubt it contains a single line of FG code). See comments on that site: pure fake application!. There's loads of fake apps being offered. Not nice. But what's that got to do with FlightGear? Or with our license? Those are pure scams unrelated to anything. ..he also claims to have movie and phone spy downloads... http://www.androidzoom.com/android_developer/maly_jonathan_wno.html -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:26:05 +0200, ThorstenB wrote in message 4df4943d.3030...@gmail.com: On 12.06.2011 11:58, Michael Sgier wrote: http://www.androidzoom.com/android_games/cards_and_casino/flight-simulation_xcuh.html how long should we tolerate such... We've had that before. This 15KB app doesn't even contain a FlightSimulator. And it doesn't do anything (so I doubt it contains a single line of FG code). See comments on that site: pure fake application!. There's loads of fake apps being offered. Not nice. But what's that got to do with FlightGear? Or with our license? Those are pure scams unrelated to anything. ..he also claims to have movie and phone spy downloads... http://www.androidzoom.com/android_developer/maly_jonathan_wno.html I found that the link above isn't valid (Developer does not exist? redirect to http://www.androidzoom.com/?err=DeveloperNotExists) Perhaps it should have been http://www.androidzoom.com/android_developer/maly-jonathan_wnos.html ? Might save someone some time and confusion. George -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 21:36:20 +1000, George wrote in message banlktindc8uwc_de94-21xrxe6srk7b...@mail.gmail.com: On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Arnt Karlsen a...@c2i.net wrote: On Sun, 12 Jun 2011 12:26:05 +0200, ThorstenB wrote in message 4df4943d.3030...@gmail.com: On 12.06.2011 11:58, Michael Sgier wrote: http://www.androidzoom.com/android_games/cards_and_casino/flight-simulation_xcuh.html how long should we tolerate such... We've had that before. This 15KB app doesn't even contain a FlightSimulator. And it doesn't do anything (so I doubt it contains a single line of FG code). See comments on that site: pure fake application!. There's loads of fake apps being offered. Not nice. But what's that got to do with FlightGear? Or with our license? Those are pure scams unrelated to anything. ..he also claims to have movie and phone spy downloads... http://www.androidzoom.com/android_developer/maly_jonathan_wno.html I found that the link above isn't valid (Developer does not exist? redirect to http://www.androidzoom.com/?err=DeveloperNotExists) Perhaps it should have been http://www.androidzoom.com/android_developer/maly-jonathan_wnos.html ? ..correct, my typo, luakit ((too) lightweight web browser) doesn't give me url window text I can cut to paste. Might save someone some time and confusion. ..yup, thanks George. ..I also found the host site a bit weird, in offering a way to report trademark violations, but not copyright violations. ..this site is hosted in Barcelona, Spain, and their host IT chief claims to also be a music composer, at least an hobby in which he would have a certain minimum interest in copyrights of e.g. his own music. White washing machine? -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Sun, 12 Jun 2011, Michael Sgier wrote: http://www.androidzoom.com/android_games/cards_and_casino/flight-simulation_xcuh.html how long should we tolerate such... Tolerate? Pfft. Just flag it as a scam and move on. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
xsaint wrote: We should also warn ppl that Flightgear being repackaged and sold by some individuals and we encourage them to download the sim from Flightgear instead of buying those craps Note that by discouraging repackaging in general you will create a situation in which we shoot ourselves in the foot. GPL explicitely grants the right to repackage a product and get a compensation for it and in general it is an appreciatable action if somebody packs in FlightGear, adds sophisticated documentation and support plus maybe some more for the sake of usability and sells the whole thing for whatever he feels is an appropriate compensation satisfying his business model. In fact FlightGear might benefit from that. One of the success factors of Linux is based on the fact that eg. SUSE exactly did this. The problem we are facing with guys like FSP is not *that* they repackaged the whole thing but *how* they did it and *how* they advertise it. Transporting the message We don't like (commercial) repackaging at all is a message which imho should not be transported- My few cts. Oliver signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Thu, 9 Jun 2011 21:06:29 +0200, Oliver Fels oliver.f...@gmx.net wrote: xsaint wrote: We should also warn ppl that Flightgear being repackaged and sold by some individuals and we encourage them to download the sim from Flightgear instead of buying those craps Note that by discouraging repackaging in general you will create a situation in which we shoot ourselves in the foot. GPL explicitely grants the right to repackage a product and get a compensation for it and in general it is an appreciatable action if somebody packs in FlightGear, adds sophisticated documentation and support plus maybe some more for the sake of usability and sells the whole thing for whatever he feels is an appropriate compensation satisfying his business model. In fact FlightGear might benefit from that. One of the success factors of Linux is based on the fact that eg. SUSE exactly did this. The problem we are facing with guys like FSP is not *that* they repackaged the whole thing but *how* they did it and *how* they advertise it. Transporting the message We don't like (commercial) repackaging at all is a message which imho should not be transported- My few cts. Oliver Personally, for my part it's not about the fact that they make money on other man's work. But it's the fact that the whole Pro Flight Simulator is just big lies at all. Starting from authors name, the so said branch with improvements they made to fgfs, the bug fixes they made, the 1000 daily copies they sell daily and the PFS developers that are so said working on the fgfs code and sceneries... The way how they hidden the GPL project behind it and steal stuff on the way to promote the PFS packaging... In fact, there's not much things that they are telling true, except it's all about cool stuff. A commercial sponsor can be really interesting for an open source project. And i think that the open source world just need it. That can bring lot's of benefits such as additional (or even printed manuals), dedicated developing or working on some stuff which isn't developed yet. Or just improve the whole stuff with a return to the mother project! It's normal you are paid for you work you do during your business hours. It's even noted in the big book. But PFS just doesn't do all what they say to do so. And that's what make me mad about them. They just abuse our world. And letting them do so is just approving that. Which isn't better either. My mind about that :P Regards, David (aka itchi) -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wednesday 08 June 2011 07:43:12 Michael Sgier wrote: why not simply change the fgfs licence once and for all? Android is not all GPL anymore...we could do the very same.- Would you really want to restrict the very freedoms that made FlightGear such a successful project, just to have some legal means against some shady people who try to fool the uninformed into paying some money for FG? Chances are, that a different license would not even help, since you couldn't even find out who to sue. I do not have much code in FG, but I for one would absolutely oppose such a useless and destructive move. If not for the freedom, I would never have bothered with FG. I would just have payed a couple of bucks for X- Plane and be flying. Yes, it leaves a very sour taste that people who have contributed nothing are earning money (we don't know how well they do btw.) while the people who did the work get nothing. But the truth is that we wouldn't get anything in any case and we chose it that way. People are cheated every day and thiefs get loads of money. It's sad, but nothing will change that. If you really want to fight those scamers, there's a very simple way to do that: inform people. Marketing. People who know about FlightGear will not pay for an outdated copy. Go out and write about FG in aviation forums and blogs. Write letters to aviation magazines which include articles about flight sims. Write about FG in all the social media you use. Post loads of cool videos on Youtube. Be visible! Everyone can help here and it takes only minutes for every action. This helps not only preventing people from getting fooled, but also to get more users and hopefully contributers which is a hell of a lot better than having to deal with law suits, distracting developers and reducing freedom. I say let's change the fight into one they simply cannot win. That way we will not only stop losing something, but actively win visibility, users and contributers. Stefan -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
..protection under the GPL, depends on a willingness on the part of the copyright owners to actually exercise their rights under copyright law to defend or enforce their copyrights. ..if there is no such willingness in any FlightGear author, there is no legal protection of FlightGear, and any scamster will get away with it, exactly because they can claim rights to their business on your work, exactly because you exercise your right under copyright law to choose not to enforce your copyrights. ..in that current scenario we also lose our right to call them scamsters, and they may win lawsuits on us for crimes such as harassment, denial of trade, slander, etc. ..so you may want to apologize to the scamsters, or, get off your ass and enforce your copyrights. Your call. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Hi, why make it all so complicated? FGFS is GNU GPL (2/3?). Report that scam to the FSF (Free Software Foundation). Maybe you will get nothing better back than just to report that video to youtube (show prove to youtube, and they must listen) but at least their scamming activity becomes more popular and that fact that FGFS is free software. As far as I know you are legally allowed to do what they are doing as long as you provide the full corresponding source code and where you can get it freely (libre). As I checked their webpage out, there are no such things: No link to flightgear.org and no provided full source code. So for my understanding they are violating the GNU GPL. You SHOULD report that to the FSF and maybe gpl-violations.org Regards, Roland On Wed, 2011-06-08 at 09:05 +0200, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..protection under the GPL, depends on a willingness on the part of the copyright owners to actually exercise their rights under copyright law to defend or enforce their copyrights. ..if there is no such willingness in any FlightGear author, there is no legal protection of FlightGear, and any scamster will get away with it, exactly because they can claim rights to their business on your work, exactly because you exercise your right under copyright law to choose not to enforce your copyrights. ..in that current scenario we also lose our right to call them scamsters, and they may win lawsuits on us for crimes such as harassment, denial of trade, slander, etc. ..so you may want to apologize to the scamsters, or, get off your ass and enforce your copyrights. Your call. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
..protection under the GPL, depends on a willingness on the part of the copyright owners to actually exercise their rights under copyright law to defend or enforce their copyrights. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see how willingness to exercise copyright under GPL would require moving to a different license. From the GPL page: Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish)... Developers that use the GNU GPL protect your rights with two steps: (1) assert copyright on the software, and (2) offer you this License giving you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify it. For both users' and authors' sake, the GPL requires that modified versions be marked as changed, so that their problems will not be attributed erroneously to authors of previous versions. As far as I can see, 'Flightgear developers' do assert copyright and then release their (copyrighted) work under GPL. From there, the software gets possibly modified, clearly relabeled and denoted as a fork of Flightgear and sold by 'FlightProSim' with the claim that you're paying for support and goodies not in Flightgear and that you can get the source code. If that's true, then for all I can see that is not a violation of GPL - GPL allows charging for someone else's work with or without modification. The possible violation of GPL are about redistribution For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights. So I don't think it's the case that packaging Flightgear and selling it is a problem, a scam or illegal (moral issues left aside), and it actually shouldn't be called that. The possible issue is if FlightProSim clearly informs users about GPL freedom or not. It does inform users that it's derived from Flightgear though. Would you really be content with FlightProSim putting a link to Flightgear and a small GPL notice on the page - which would make everything GPL-compliant? Or is the real issue and the reason for the outrage FPS causes that some people are not happy with the GPL concept itself? You may feel that it's morally wrong that someone else makes money of your own work. I actually don't - if I wanted to make money, I would work on something different - that's entirely my choice. I feel that the benefit of giving to 100 people freedom to do something by far outweighs the one using that freedom for something I don't like so much. And you have to remember that freedom isn't worth anything if it can't be misused - then it was only the illusion of freedom. And that seems to me what GPL is about - freedom, not controlling that everyone uses your stuff as you see fit. Not that I have too much to say, but I wouldn't change the license for just some petty revenge against the person running FlightProSim... Cheers, * Thorsten -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Am 08.06.11 07:43, schrieb Michael Sgier: why not simply change the fgfs licence once and for all? Android is not all GPL anymore...we could do the very same.- Why not throwing all the sources to trash and tell people the project does not exist anymore ? :-) No licence change has to be promoted here. I will never release any of my contributions under another licence, sorry for that. For me ProFraud is not such a big problem, because we have a lot of very cool users which start to promote real FlightGear at every edge, users who sends comments, scam and spam reports and who are really engaged to help keeping this project free and open. We don’t need any licence change, isn’t that a bit selfish from you? Of course, a problem we still have is with our flightgear homepage, it is difficult for starters to see which one is fraud, original or pro, because our main site has the same marketing style (graphically). But here I repeat myself of course and stop. Cheers, Yves -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:06:48 +0300 (EEST), thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote in message 54776.130.234.144.77.1307524008.squir...@webmail3.cc.jyu.fi: ..protection under the GPL, depends on a willingness on the part of the copyright owners to actually exercise their rights under copyright law to defend or enforce their copyrights. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see how willingness to exercise copyright under GPL would require moving to a different license. ..you assume such moving moving to a different license has not taken place, (y)our (f)actual unwillingness to actually exercise your rights under copyright law to defend or enforce your copyrights, can be construed and asserted as a new license alongside the GPL. ..we can no longer claim we didn't know about their piracy, and they can rightly claim we never acted. From the GPL page: Our General Public Licenses are designed to make sure that you have the freedom to distribute copies of free software (and charge for them if you wish)... Developers that use the GNU GPL protect your rights with two steps: (1) assert copyright on the software, and (2) offer you this License giving you legal permission to copy, distribute and/or modify it. For both users' and authors' sake, the GPL requires that modified versions be marked as changed, so that their problems will not be attributed erroneously to authors of previous versions. As far as I can see, 'Flightgear developers' do assert copyright and then release their (copyrighted) work under GPL. ..agreed, but the copyrights are not enforced, here we seem to have a well established practice of allowing non-GPL distribution of FlightGear binaries, that's what I see FG developers doing here. From there, the software gets possibly modified, clearly relabeled and denoted as a fork of Flightgear and sold by 'FlightProSim' with the claim that you're paying for support and goodies not in Flightgear and that you can get the source code. If that's true, then for all I can see that is not a violation of GPL - GPL allows charging for someone else's work with or without modification. The possible violation of GPL are about redistribution ..exactly. For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received. You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the source code. And you must show them these terms so they know their rights. So I don't think it's the case that packaging Flightgear and selling it is a problem, a scam or illegal (moral issues left aside), and it actually shouldn't be called that. The possible issue is if FlightProSim clearly informs users about GPL freedom or not. It does inform users that it's derived from Flightgear though. Would you really be content with FlightProSim putting a link to Flightgear and a small GPL notice on the page ..as long as people can find the source code there, I'm happy. - which would make everything GPL-compliant? ..yes. Or is the real issue and the reason for the outrage FPS causes that some people are not happy with the GPL concept itself? You may feel that it's morally wrong that someone else makes money of your own work. I actually don't - if I wanted to make money, I would work on something different - that's entirely my choice. I feel that the benefit of giving to 100 people freedom to do something by far outweighs the one using that freedom for something I don't like so much. And you have to remember that freedom isn't worth anything if it can't be misused - then it was only the illusion of freedom. And that seems to me what GPL is about - freedom, not controlling that everyone uses your stuff as you see fit. Not that I have too much to say, but I wouldn't change the license for just some petty revenge against the person running FlightProSim... ..totally agreed, all we need is enforcement of what we have. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 12:13:42 +0200, HB-GRAL wrote in message 4def4b56.1080...@sablonier.ch: Am 08.06.11 07:43, schrieb Michael Sgier: why not simply change the fgfs licence once and for all? Android is not all GPL anymore...we could do the very same.- Why not throwing all the sources to trash and tell people the project does not exist anymore ? :-) ..the GPL says source must be available for 3 years after release. ;o) No licence change has to be promoted here. I will never release any of my contributions under another licence, sorry for that. For me ProFraud is not such a big problem, because we have a lot of very cool users which start to promote real FlightGear at every edge, users who sends comments, scam and spam reports and who are really engaged to help keeping this project free and open. We don’t need any licence change, isn’t that a bit selfish from you? Of course, a problem we still have is with our flightgear homepage, it is difficult for starters to see which one is fraud, original or pro, because our main site has the same marketing style (graphically). But here I repeat myself of course and stop. ..yup, enough talk, copyright owners, _Act_. ;o) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wednesday 08 June 2011 12:27:30 Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:06:48 +0300 (EEST), thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote in message Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see how willingness to exercise copyright under GPL would require moving to a different license. ..you assume such moving moving to a different license has not taken place, (y)our (f)actual unwillingness to actually exercise your rights under copyright law to defend or enforce your copyrights, can be construed and asserted as a new license alongside the GPL. May I ask on which jurisdiction your claim is based? Because I know for a fact that it does not have anything to do with German or Austrian law and am quite sure that there is no other European country where the law works anything like you described and the same goes for the USA. Could it be that you're mixing copyright and trademarks? Because trademarks are the only kind of intellectual property rights which you have actually have to enforce in order to not lose them. There's no such need for copyright or creator's rights. For the latter, one cannot even lose them if one wants. They are non-transferable and non- relinquishable. Stefan -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Am Mittwoch, den 08.06.2011, 08:19 +0200 schrieb Stefan Seifert: Would you really want to restrict the very freedoms that made FlightGear such a successful project, just to have some legal means against some shady people who try to fool the uninformed into paying some money for FG? Chances are, that a different license would not even help, since you couldn't even find out who to sue. You are right. This guy is allready calling its product Microsoft Flight Simulator 2011, so he doesn't even care about the trademarks of Microsoft products or its company name. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SX56YCTc5M So it is obviously clear, changing the license will change nothing. He will ignore it and continue stealing. Best Regards, Oliver C. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Oliver wrote: This guy is allready calling its product Microsoft Flight Simulator 2011, so he doesn't even care about the trademarks of Microsoft products or its company name. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SX56YCTc5M Now that video IS a copyright violation. It is a copy of Oscar's excellent A day at Gatwick airport video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzCcqtkTUT8 I've forwarded the link to Oscar, so he can file a copyright infringement report at YouTube (we've done so in the past and they usually remove the video and account within two days or so... Thanks! Gijs -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Robert wrote: Look what I have found on Dailymotion: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgg2j5_next-generation-flight-simulator-2011-2012-demo_videogames http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh4vzn_pro-flight-simulator-2011-review-1_videogames http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh4w27_pro-flight-simulator-2011-review-2_videogames http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh4w30_pro-flight-simulator-2011-review-3_videogames http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj2pya_flight-simulator-2011-pro_videogames Don't know how to report scam on dailymotion :( Robert, all you need to do is click the Report button that's right under the player and then fill out the form that pops up. There's no apparent reason code for Scam, so you'll need to pick Other and then explain. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..protection under the GPL, depends on a willingness on the part of the copyright owners to actually exercise their rights under copyright law to defend or enforce their copyrights. Arnt, while the PFS guys are doing morally despicable things, they're not (at least to my knowledge) violating copyright, nor the GPL. You REALLY need to STFU until you know what you're talking about. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Stefan Seifert wrote: On Wednesday 08 June 2011 12:27:30 Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:06:48 +0300 (EEST), thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote in message Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see how willingness to exercise copyright under GPL would require moving to a different license. ..you assume such moving moving to a different license has not taken place, (y)our (f)actual unwillingness to actually exercise your rights under copyright law to defend or enforce your copyrights, can be construed and asserted as a new license alongside the GPL. May I ask on which jurisdiction your claim is based? Because I know for a fact that it does not have anything to do with German or Austrian law and am quite sure that there is no other European country where the law works anything like you described and the same goes for the USA. Could it be that you're mixing copyright and trademarks? Because trademarks are the only kind of intellectual property rights which you have actually have to enforce in order to not lose them. There's no such need for copyright or creator's rights. For the latter, one cannot even lose them if one wants. They are non-transferable and non- relinquishable. Stefan, you need to understand that Arnt loves talking out his ass about things he has no clue about. Just add him to your killfile and move on. :) g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 06:05:07 -0700 (PDT), Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com wrote: On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..protection under the GPL, depends on a willingness on the part of the copyright owners to actually exercise their rights under copyright law to defend or enforce their copyrights. Arnt, while the PFS guys are doing morally despicable things, they're not (at least to my knowledge) violating copyright, nor the GPL. You REALLY need to STFU until you know what you're talking about. g. Hi all, I just download the source code of that magic scam at http://proflightsimulator.com/source/Source-Files.7z If you extract it, you will see lot's of mess in the root of the extracted directory... During extraction, it even ask to overwrite some already extracted files ahum hum hum... As bonus, you will get other compressed files into that mess, look good, you will see it. IE: There's one big flightgear-wiki.zip file of about 267MB ... I just feel they blow'ed up everything to discourage our inspection. Also a License file in the main root (*.7z), if you read it, it's about LGPL and not GPL!!! Please, specialists, come in there as for me this isn't about the same rights/freedom at all. Further, if you look at http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm you will have a realy bad day :/ Regards, David (also know as itchi) -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:24 PM, David Van Mosselbeen wrote: Hi all, I just download the source code of that magic scam at http://proflightsimulator.com/source/Source-Files.7z snip This was discussed ad naseum quite some time ago on this list and on the forums. Those unfamiliar are welcome to look at the archives for details. There's also this statement that we release at the time: http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html Personally, I think we've all got far better things to do with our time than discuss this all again. -Stuart -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:47:52 +0200, Stefan wrote in message 201106081247.52326.n...@detonation.org: On Wednesday 08 June 2011 12:27:30 Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:06:48 +0300 (EEST), thorsten.i.r...@jyu.fi wrote in message Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can't see how willingness to exercise copyright under GPL would require moving to a different license. ..you assume such moving moving to a different license has not taken place, (y)our (f)actual unwillingness to actually exercise your rights under copyright law to defend or enforce your copyrights, can be construed and asserted as a new license alongside the GPL. May I ask on which jurisdiction your claim is based? ..our current GPL practice under US and Norwegian law, the Norwegian government is pro-EU and hauls in at least all the bad stuff from EU directives. Because I know for a fact that it does not have anything to do with German or Austrian law and am quite sure that there is no other European country where the law works anything like you described and the same goes for the USA. ..the laws are no problem, it's _us_ Not Even Trying to stop infringement once we find it, and thereby in practice giving the bad guys a license to carry on. Could it be that you're mixing copyright and trademarks? Because trademarks are the only kind of intellectual property rights which you have actually have to enforce in order to not lose them. ..nope, yes trademarks needs that and it is not something you can have cops do for you, trademark litigation is expensive civil litigation, where copyright enforcement is a simple cheap case of having your lawyer call the cops, cops generally have no clue in copyright matters, they merely execute court orders. There's no such need for copyright or creator's rights. For the latter, one cannot even lose them if one wants. They are non-transferable and non- relinquishable. ..correct, once they are defended. Our current practice is effectively a license alongside the GPL, until someone gets off his ass and defends his copyright on his own GPL code. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..our current GPL practice [...] Arnt, for what stupid reason are you using the terms we and our ? Except from annoying the developer's mailing list with unwanted outpourings you have not been involved in the FlightGear project at all, at least not for the last twelve years. You haven't contributed _anything_ over this time, thus you're not affected by the FPS-topic at all. As a consequence, the terms our, we and us are completely inappropriate. Your lack of understanding for the motivation behind the way The FlightGear Project, which does _not_ include Arnt Karlsen, is dealing with FPS (and related derivates) is prettty evident, therefore you're well advised to select your wording more carefully, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 19:59:23 + (UTC), Martin wrote in message isokar$lc0u$1...@osprey.mgras.de: Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..our current GPL practice [...] Arnt, for what stupid reason are you using the terms we and our ? Except from annoying the developer's mailing list with unwanted outpourings you have not been involved in the FlightGear project at all, at least not for the last twelve years. You haven't contributed ..any code, correct, too busy with Groklaw and Kafka games. _anything_ over this time, thus you're not affected by the FPS-topic at all. As a consequence, the terms our, we and us are completely inappropriate. Your lack of understanding for the motivation behind the way The FlightGear Project, which does _not_ include Arnt Karlsen, is dealing with FPS (and related derivates) is prettty evident, therefore you're well advised to select your wording more carefully, Martin. ..I simply found 'your current GPL practice' even less appropriate, but you are right, you do have a right to exercise your copyrights e.g. by dual-license your code in any way you please, e.g. by allowing non-GPL distribution. ..my interest in FG is it offers a way back into aviation. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Hi, Flightgear Mac OS X site also has a note. See http://macflightgear.sf.net/home/downloads By the way, one thing I really hate about these products is that they skip supporting users. As a result, more than 30 users yelled at me like: hey, I got your product but I can't launch it successfully. DVD keeps me go crazy!! So I want you to pay me back!! My answer was like: yeah, here is the link so go ahead. I wish you could get your money back! FYI, I'm not the seller, so don't yell at me. See the link below for more detail... Etc. Then they find out I'm not the evil and give me a polite apology (or a big question mark with confusion). I'm happy to support all FG users including them, but I don't feel good to hear such complaints over something I never sold :-/ Tat - Tatsuhiro Nishioka On 2011/06/08, at 22:32, Stuart Buchanan stuar...@gmail.com wrote: This was discussed ad naseum quite some time ago on this list and on the forums. Those unfamiliar are welcome to look at the archives for details. There's also this statement that we release at the time: http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html Personally, I think we've all got far better things to do with our time than discuss this all again. -Stuart -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Dear FlightGear Developers,while a video trip through YouTube, I saw this suspiceous video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3x6Mc3DyuUfeature=player_embeddedI recognised the Chat Box in FlightGear-GUI-Style. Following the link, they sell that for 97$. (Here)I hope I could help youTobias MarkusSchon gehrt? WEB.DE hat einen genialen Phishing-Filter in dieToolbar eingebaut! http://produkte.web.de/go/toolbar -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Tobias Markus wrote: Dear FlightGear Developers,while a video trip through YouTube, I saw this suspiceous video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3x6Mc3DyuUfeature=player_embeddedI recognised the Chat Box in FlightGear-GUI-Style. Following the link, they sell that for 97$. (Here)I hope I could help youTobias Markus It's a scam. Just report the video to YouTube as spam-scam. tnx! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.-- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On 6/7/2011 9:53 AM, Gene Buckle wrote: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Tobias Markus wrote: Dear FlightGear Developers,while a video trip through YouTube, I saw this suspiceous video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3x6Mc3DyuUfeature=player_embeddedI recognised the Chat Box in FlightGear-GUI-Style. Following the link, they sell that for 97$. (Here)I hope I could help youTobias Markus It's a scam. Just report the video to YouTube as spam-scam. tnx! g. The youtube poster won't approve comments that explain that it's FlightGear. Vote the video down, instead. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
The only way we can stop or reduce is to educate the folks in the internet. Doing up various 1 minute video, very similar to the video as shown with same plane and then uploading with the same keywords can help. In our video, we should mention Flightgear is 100% opensource and 100% FREE. We should also warn ppl that Flightgear being repackaged and sold by some individuals and we encourage them to download the sim from Flightgear instead of buying those craps If we can flood youtube with similar 1 minute video can be useful Cheers On Tuesday 07,June,2011 11:10 PM, Reagan Thomas wrote: On 6/7/2011 9:53 AM, Gene Buckle wrote: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Tobias Markus wrote: Dear FlightGear Developers,while a video trip through YouTube, I saw this suspiceous video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3x6Mc3DyuUfeature=player_embeddedI recognised the Chat Box in FlightGear-GUI-Style. Following the link, they sell that for 97$. (Here)I hope I could help youTobias Markus It's a scam. Just report the video to YouTube as spam-scam. tnx! g. The youtube poster won't approve comments that explain that it's FlightGear. Vote the video down, instead. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, xsaint wrote: The only way we can stop or reduce is to educate the folks in the internet. Doing up various 1 minute video, very similar to the video as shown with same plane and then uploading with the same keywords can help. In our video, we should mention Flightgear is 100% opensource and 100% FREE. We should also warn ppl that Flightgear being repackaged and sold by some individuals and we encourage them to download the sim from Flightgear instead of buying those craps If we can flood youtube with similar 1 minute video can be useful Now this is the best idea I've seen yet! g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 16:53:54 +0200, Gijs wrote in message dub102-w319a5f4db7e367949bd506d3...@phx.gbl: Hi Tobias, while a video trip through YouTube, I saw this suspiceous video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3x6Mc3DyuUfeature=player_embedded I recognised the Chat Box in FlightGear-GUI-Style. Following the link, they sell that for 97$. (Here) we are aware of those rebranded FlightGear distributions. See our website for more details: http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html All you can do to help is report the video as spam and try to post comments explaining that it is essentialy the free sim FlightGear. Sadly those people do spend quite some time on advertising, so you'll see their adds come up on just about every flightsim related website, twitter, youtube, facebook etc. So there's plenty to mark as spam ;) ..at the bottom of youtube pages, you find the Copyright link. Follow that, and we find in the Content Owner section, a new link to Copyright Infringement Notification with a nice form to fill out. ;o) ...and unless you're the one that created the video, that's fraud. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 12:45:20 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1106071244510.21...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 16:53:54 +0200, Gijs wrote in message dub102-w319a5f4db7e367949bd506d3...@phx.gbl: Hi Tobias, while a video trip through YouTube, I saw this suspiceous video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3x6Mc3DyuUfeature=player_embedded I recognised the Chat Box in FlightGear-GUI-Style. Following the link, they sell that for 97$. (Here) we are aware of those rebranded FlightGear distributions. See our website for more details: http://www.flightgear.org/flightprosim.html All you can do to help is report the video as spam and try to post comments explaining that it is essentialy the free sim FlightGear. Sadly those people do spend quite some time on advertising, so you'll see their adds come up on just about every flightsim related website, twitter, youtube, facebook etc. So there's plenty to mark as spam ;) ..at the bottom of youtube pages, you find the Copyright link. Follow that, and we find in the Content Owner section, a new link to Copyright Infringement Notification with a nice form to fill out. ;o) ...and unless you're the one that created the video, that's fraud. ..music and images such as logos and liveries, also qualify as content, and I believe pirated music is the most common cause of take down notices. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..at the bottom of youtube pages, you find the Copyright link. Follow that, and we find in the Content Owner section, a new link to Copyright Infringement Notification with a nice form to fill out. ;o) ...and unless you're the one that created the video, that's fraud. ..music and images such as logos and liveries, also qualify as content, and I believe pirated music is the most common cause of take down notices. ...and unless you're the one that created the music, logos or liveries, that's fraud. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:20:32 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1106071419190.27...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..at the bottom of youtube pages, you find the Copyright link. Follow that, and we find in the Content Owner section, a new link to Copyright Infringement Notification with a nice form to fill out. ;o) ...and unless you're the one that created the video, that's fraud. ..music and images such as logos and liveries, also qualify as content, and I believe pirated music is the most common cause of take down notices. ...and unless you're the one that created the music, logos or liveries, that's fraud. ..correct, is why I suggest the logo and livery authors do it. ;o) And I agree I should have made that point more clearly. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:20:32 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1106071419190.27...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..at the bottom of youtube pages, you find the Copyright link. Follow that, and we find in the Content Owner section, a new link to Copyright Infringement Notification with a nice form to fill out. ;o) ...and unless you're the one that created the video, that's fraud. ..music and images such as logos and liveries, also qualify as content, and I believe pirated music is the most common cause of take down notices. ...and unless you're the one that created the music, logos or liveries, that's fraud. ..correct, is why I suggest the logo and livery authors do it. ;o) And I agree I should have made that point more clearly. ...and showing video of logos liveries is no more a copyright violation than my making a movie with FlightGear FRAPS would be. Look, if there was a legal way to stop these jackass thieves, it would have been taken care of already. You really need to stop talking about crap you know nothing about. Some poor soul is going to take you at your word and get him/herself into a world of hurt because of it. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
Look what I have found on Dailymotion: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgg2j5_next-generation-flight-simulator-2011-2012-demo_videogames http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh4vzn_pro-flight-simulator-2011-review-1_videogames http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh4w27_pro-flight-simulator-2011-review-2_videogames http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh4w30_pro-flight-simulator-2011-review-3_videogames http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj2pya_flight-simulator-2011-pro_videogames Don't know how to report scam on dailymotion :( -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator
why not simply change the fgfs licence once and for all? Android is not all GPL anymore...we could do the very same.- --- On Wed, 6/8/11, Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com wrote: From: Gene Buckle ge...@deltasoft.com Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator To: FlightGear developers discussions flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Date: Wednesday, June 8, 2011, 2:54 AM On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:20:32 -0700 (PDT), Gene wrote in message alpine.lfd.2.00.1106071419190.27...@grumble.deltasoft.com: On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Arnt Karlsen wrote: ..at the bottom of youtube pages, you find the Copyright link. Follow that, and we find in the Content Owner section, a new link to Copyright Infringement Notification with a nice form to fill out. ;o) ...and unless you're the one that created the video, that's fraud. ..music and images such as logos and liveries, also qualify as content, and I believe pirated music is the most common cause of take down notices. ...and unless you're the one that created the music, logos or liveries, that's fraud. ..correct, is why I suggest the logo and livery authors do it. ;o) And I agree I should have made that point more clearly. ...and showing video of logos liveries is no more a copyright violation than my making a movie with FlightGear FRAPS would be. Look, if there was a legal way to stop these jackass thieves, it would have been taken care of already. You really need to stop talking about crap you know nothing about. Some poor soul is going to take you at your word and get him/herself into a world of hurt because of it. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.simpits.org/geneb - The Me-109F/X Project ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://www.scarletdme.org - Get it _today_! Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end. -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- EditLive Enterprise is the world's most technically advanced content authoring tool. Experience the power of Track Changes, Inline Image Editing and ensure content is compliant with Accessibility Checking. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ephox-dev2dev___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
Hello, Hopefully this gets through, I'm not subscribed on the Devel (or any) fg list. And sorry for breaking threading, I read this this post from the sf ml archive page. I received an ad for %$ Flight Simulator ( http://www.%$flightsimulator.com/ (1)) and looked at it and found it eerily familiar. Was only able to find this page: http://www.%$flightsimulator.com/disclaimer.htm which almost confirmed my suspicion. Scanned the devel mailing list archive (is there a way to search the ML?), and came across this post. Jari Häkkinen jari@fl... wrote: So I suppose one could test them by requesting the source. They should provide it in machine readable form and then we can scrutinize their modification and use them if we choose to (and this would actually benefit proflightsim!). They only have to provide the source to you if you somehow received the binaries. This hinges on what public means in release. see: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLRequireSourcePostedPublic + the 4 following questions. To be guaranteed right to request a copy of the source, you do need a copy of the binary. Anything else, becomes a debate on what public means. Steve 1) replace %$ w/ pro, didn't want to help them raise their search engine ranking. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
Think about it. ;) http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 02:08 -0800, Chris Wilkinson wrote: http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? It started out fine with a few minor nitpicks until I reached: To say it is simply FlightGear would be inaccurate and illegal. Ehm? What?!! Looking at their so called todo list I would rather say they are stepping into shaky ground with every step and wouldn't be surprised to see it end up being illegal in the end. Erik -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
I have no time for detailed legalities of the message but one should note regarding GPL (at least v3 and probably v2, maybe it is time for fg to go v3?) 1) It is legal to fork a GPL project at any time if some conditions are met. In simple terms the forked project must provide their modification in machine readable form. 2) It is legal to try to make money out of GPL software Comments on 1). A simple google search (I used source site:proflightsimulator.com) will lead to http://www.proflightsimulator.com/downloads716/ReadMe.txt where we can read Source Code: Full source code has not been included in the download area, however it is available on request. Please contact us if you require this. http://proflightsimulator.com/support/ So I suppose one could test them by requesting the source. They should provide it in machine readable form and then we can scrutinize their modification and use them if we choose to (and this would actually benefit proflightsim!). If they do not provide the source then they break the license agreement. But are we prepared to battle this in courts? Probably this is the only licence breaking proflightsim does? Comment on 2). If they provide a better user experience (as they claim to do) then go ahead an charge your user base but remember to provide source to whoever requests it. I do not support their business model mostly because they make it hard to get their source code modifications (i.e., no simple download source link) and are somewhat obscure with their relation to fg. However, we must accept that others may be able to make money out of GPLd software. The way to counter the above is to make sure that flightgear.org is so much better than the opposition that the opposition fade away. Unfortunately this does not always mean technical brilliance from a user point of view but rather user experience. That is something proflight may have realized, I have not tried their package so I cannot make a judgement whether they improve user experience or not. I think that the single most important thing fg could do to fight flightpro and similar is to improve user experience and release often. I think that the latter is being worked on. I know that user experience is getting better all the time but there is a lot more that could be done for the non-technical user. But these two points are assuming that we want to expand the user base. Cheers, Jari - not affiliated with any commercial or shady flight simulator business but a user of Microsoft flight simulators and FlightGear (git next branch) On 2011-01-14 11.08, Chris Wilkinson wrote: http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
I love the contradictory passages: - ProFlightSimulator is an open source stand alone Flight Simulator. - Customer support is only an email away (Open source products do not offer any support) They say open source projects don’t offer support (despite FlightGear offering community support through the mailing lists and forums), but then they say ProFlightSimulator is open source, but offers email support? Chris On Fri, 2011-01-14 at 02:08 -0800, Chris Wilkinson wrote: http://www.proflightsimulator.com/fg-help.htm Any comments into the accuracy of this statement? Regards, Chris Wilkinson, YBBN/BNE. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
On Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:00:02 +, Chris wrote in message 1295020802.2363.13.camel@chris-desktop: I love the contradictory passages: - ProFlightSimulator is an open source stand alone Flight Simulator. - Customer support is only an email away (Open source products do not offer any support) They say open source projects don’t offer support (despite FlightGear offering community support through the mailing lists and forums), but then they say ProFlightSimulator is open source, but offers email support? ..only takes passing on the scamster's support email to some naive nearby community, say with some sed scripting adapting names to each helpful entity. -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Pro Flight Simulator disclaimer, accurate?
Erik wrote: Looking at their so called todo list ...which is not much more than a sum-up of FlightGear features (like the VATSIM support that FlightGear has these days). Oh, to all: please do not provide direct links to these people's websites. Every single hit increases their pagerank and thus makes them more visible on most search engines. -- Protect Your Site and Customers from Malware Attacks Learn about various malware tactics and how to avoid them. Understand malware threats, the impact they can have on your business, and how you can protect your company and customers by using code signing. http://p.sf.net/sfu/oracle-sfdevnl___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
