Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
On Friday 06 April 2007 02:39, Csaba Halász wrote: Nick had some trouble with the tacan on the lightning, so I had a peek at it. Worked for me all right. However, the instrument needle works as if it were a fixed compass card indicator, which it isn't. So there should be an additional rotation applied to adjust for the a/c heading. Patch attached. Thanks... I think I noticed that before but clearly didn't get round to actually fixing it! If others confirm that your patch does the job then someone with CVS access can feel free to commit it. I'm likely to be away for a few days, and don't have time to test it before I go. I also have some issues: 1) The lightning even has an ILS instrument but I could not find a DME. Have I overlooked it? No, you haven't... despite having spent ages in the cockpit of the Lightning, and having taken hundreds of photos on multiple occasions, I still haven't found the DME readout! I know where it is on later marks, but haven't found it on the F.1A. I would be delighted to add the readout if I knew what it looked like and where it went... 2) How do you check if the tacan/vor/adf/whatever radio transmitter is in range? A digital display could go blank, but an instrument needle must point somewhere. Shouldn't there be an indicator light or something? Or is it just left to the pilot to listen for the morse code? There would normally be an unserviceable flag; the Lightning has them for the various attitude indicators, HSI, ILS display, etc as you have no doubt seen. The RMI actually should have two very unusual flags in the centre of the dial, but I haven't modelled them yet because I can't find out precisely what they show! The problem is that though I have great access to the cockpit, I only have the Pilot's Notes for later marks; the cockpit instrumentation is very different in those, though most of the other systems are similar. 3) In the lightning rmi and hsi animations there are a couple of interpolation tables for identity transformation. Do they have any purpose? The Lightning was a learning exercise for me, as a dry run for making a Buccaneer. Since the FG way of learning these things is to borrow bits from other a/c and adapt to suit, and I didn't always 100% understand the bits I was borrowing, superfluous code is a distinct possibility :-) I have been (slowly) going back over parts of it with the benefit of much better knowledge of how things ought to be done, tidying up to make it a bit easier to maintain. I'm quite amused that nobody has yet complained about the one instrument that I know is broken in CVS! (I fixed it here, but haven't got round to getting it committed yet.) It's always nice to see other people actually using it, and bug reports are almost as welcome as patches ;-) Cheers, AJ - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
On Friday 06 April 2007 02:39:24 Csaba Halász wrote: Hello! Nick had some trouble with the tacan on the lightning, so I had a peek at it. Worked for me all right. However, the instrument needle works as if it were a fixed compass card indicator, which it isn't. So there should be an additional rotation applied to adjust for the a/c heading. Patch attached. Please check before commit. Pretty please? ;) I also have some issues: 1) The lightning even has an ILS instrument but I could not find a DME. Have I overlooked it? 2) How do you check if the tacan/vor/adf/whatever radio transmitter is in range? A digital display could go blank, but an instrument needle must point somewhere. Shouldn't there be an indicator light or something? Or is it just left to the pilot to listen for the morse code? 3) In the lightning rmi and hsi animations there are a couple of interpolation tables for identity transformation. Do they have any purpose? OK, I still have issues with the Lightning TACAN. I was getting angry in IRC last night, as NOBODY ever sees the issues I do. Now, to recap. To get 'refueling_demo' to work (not refueling_demo_1/_2), I had to !-- -- out the demo in preferences.xml, and in lightning-set.xml change the ai line to read from: scenariorefueling_demo_1/scenario to: scenariorefueling_demo/scenario All well and good. I now have a tanker circling over KSFO, and I can refuel with it! BUT the TACAN green needle always points in the vertical direction. Looking at the property browser, instrumentation/tacan/in-range is always false. Plus the AI aircraft has no TACAN channel-id? So, looking at the data/AI/refueling_demo.xml, I see it doesn't have a channel-id? But adding a channel-id still didn't work... but then changing call-sign from 'ESSO 2' to 'ESSO1' did! - callsignESSO 2/callsign + callsignESSO1/callsign + TACAN-channel-ID040X/TACAN-channel-ID Now in this scenerio the green needle works, although I am still not sure what it is telling me... that is another issue, I think. Nick - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
* Csaba Halász -- Friday 06 April 2007: However, the instrument needle works as if it were a fixed compass card indicator, which it isn't. So there should be an additional rotation applied to adjust for the a/c heading. Umm ... but without the patch it *is* a fixed compass. The scale doesn't rotate, and for that the needle was right, albeit inconvenient. (Older instruments were like that, as Vivian has told me once. This is also like it's in the Seahawk). Is the scale on the Lightning supposed to rotate? In that case the patch isn't complete. The scale rotation is missing. m. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
* Melchior FRANZ -- Friday 06 April 2007: Umm ... but without the patch it *is* a fixed compass. The scale doesn't rotate, Ahh. It works with fg/osg, but not fg/plib. Unfortunately, two developers boycott the plib branch, and someone else has to do their work. Very annoying! m. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
Committed. * Melchior FRANZ -- Friday 06 April 2007: Unfortunately, two developers boycott the plib branch, and someone else has to do their work. Very annoying! While true, this wasn't the cause here. (I had suspected a connection to the interpolation table bug that someone only fixed in fg/osg. I have ported it meanwhile, though.) The reason was yet again plib's traditional animation feature, which breaks animations when objects are wrongly forced into subbranches. m. - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
On 4/6/07, Nick Warne [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many people *actually* tested the TACAN and located the tanker aircraft with it, rather than just sit in the cockpit and see the needle/gauges work? I did, at least three times. But I used the refueling_demo_1. Greets, Csaba - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
On Friday 06 April 2007 14:00:14 AJ MacLeod wrote: On Friday 06 April 2007 13:29, Nick Warne wrote: OK, I know people think I am seeing things, but I just sussed out what is going on. I'm not so sure :-) Here is what happens for me. The TACAN works, but it doesn't locate the aircraft (tanker) - the dial just seems to swing around in a circle depending what direction I fly in. It works best if the tanker you are trying to locate is actually equipped with TACAN ;-) Well, then the wiki refueling 'how-to' is wrong. But if I add in the TACAN (ESSO1 and the TACAN-id) to that demo I can see it in prop browser. Just doing a demo_2 as Csaba says works, I can follow the TACAN if I turn it on when at 8000' (getting out of all the noise?), and sure enough locate the tanker. But then dropping off, and turning south, the needle then goes all off, and in fact ands up pointing to KSFO - I can then follow that all the way back to airport. Something is up here. Nick - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
On Friday 06 April 2007 14:00:14 AJ MacLeod wrote: The tanker in refueling_demo doesn't have TACAN at all. In fact, I think we have a bit of needless duplication with those demos, and one of them could be removed without too much pain... OK, Csaba found the bug I was seeing, and he fixed it, so no doubt a fix is on the way soon - I am so pleased, I thought I was going mad. Thanks Csaba!!! As to the refueling_demo.xml. I think this should stay, as it can be used for you own tanker scenerio. I was testing over FHAW (Ascention Island) and tweaked the file so that it used TACAN also: entry callsignESSO1/callsign TACAN-channel-ID040X/TACAN-channel-ID typeaircraft/type classtanker/class modelModels/Geometry/KC135/KC135.xml/model !-- latitude37.61633/latitude longitude-122.38334/longitude -- latitude-7.974748/latitude longitude-14.382520/longitude altitude3000/altitude heading020/heading speed280/speed roll-15/roll /entry It is very handy to have around. Nick - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
Nick Warne wrote: On Friday 06 April 2007 14:00:14 AJ MacLeod wrote: The tanker in refueling_demo doesn't have TACAN at all. In fact, I think we have a bit of needless duplication with those demos, and one of them could be removed without too much pain... OK, Csaba found the bug I was seeing, and he fixed it, so no doubt a fix is on the way soon - I am so pleased, I thought I was going mad. Thanks Csaba!!! As to the refueling_demo.xml. I think this should stay, as it can be used for you own tanker scenerio. I was testing over FHAW (Ascention Island) and tweaked the file so that it used TACAN also: entry callsignESSO1/callsign TACAN-channel-ID040X/TACAN-channel-ID typeaircraft/type classtanker/class modelModels/Geometry/KC135/KC135.xml/model !-- latitude37.61633/latitude longitude-122.38334/longitude -- latitude-7.974748/latitude longitude-14.382520/longitude altitude3000/altitude heading020/heading speed280/speed roll-15/roll /entry It is very handy to have around. I'm sure you have spotted it by now - the TACAN code in C++ relates the aircraft or carrier callsign to the assigned TACAN frequency (not channel). The tag TACAN-channel-ID is for display purposes only so that if you open the property browser you can quickly identify the assigned channel. So, provided the mobile unit has one of the pre-assigned callsigns, it will also have the pre-assigned TACAN frequency, no matter if the tag is present or correct. For example: 12 999999 0 11030 0.000 ES1 ESSO1 TACAN The reason for this is historical - the nav.dat data file only contains TACAN frequency for fixed sites, and not TACAN channel. The file carrier_nav.dat is simply an extension of that file for mobile units. Just to make this clear - the tag TACAN-channel-ID has no effect on the actual TACAN channel/frequency of a mobile unit - tag callsign determines that. Vivian - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
On Friday 06 April 2007 23:10:25 Vivian Meazza wrote: Nick Warne wrote: On Friday 06 April 2007 14:00:14 AJ MacLeod wrote: The tanker in refueling_demo doesn't have TACAN at all. In fact, I think we have a bit of needless duplication with those demos, and one of them could be removed without too much pain... OK, Csaba found the bug I was seeing, and he fixed it, so no doubt a fix is on the way soon - I am so pleased, I thought I was going mad. Thanks Csaba!!! As to the refueling_demo.xml. I think this should stay, as it can be used for you own tanker scenerio. I was testing over FHAW (Ascention Island) and tweaked the file so that it used TACAN also: entry callsignESSO1/callsign TACAN-channel-ID040X/TACAN-channel-ID typeaircraft/type classtanker/class modelModels/Geometry/KC135/KC135.xml/model !-- latitude37.61633/latitude longitude-122.38334/longitude -- latitude-7.974748/latitude longitude-14.382520/longitude altitude3000/altitude heading020/heading speed280/speed roll-15/roll /entry It is very handy to have around. I'm sure you have spotted it by now - the TACAN code in C++ relates the aircraft or carrier callsign to the assigned TACAN frequency (not channel). The tag TACAN-channel-ID is for display purposes only so that if you open the property browser you can quickly identify the assigned channel. So, provided the mobile unit has one of the pre-assigned callsigns, it will also have the pre-assigned TACAN frequency, no matter if the tag is present or correct. For example: 12 999999 0 11030 0.000 ES1 ESSO1 TACAN The reason for this is historical - the nav.dat data file only contains TACAN frequency for fixed sites, and not TACAN channel. The file carrier_nav.dat is simply an extension of that file for mobile units. Just to make this clear - the tag TACAN-channel-ID has no effect on the actual TACAN channel/frequency of a mobile unit - tag callsign determines that. Yes, I 'discovered' this after trying/getting TACAN to work - I didn't know where it was assigned though, so thanks for this information. So, seeing as Csaba is now off on holiday, here is the bug and fix he found. The bug arises if you do not have carrier demo running (exactly my case). The [dirty] fix - in tacan.cxx around line 284: // reset search time _time_before_search_sec = 1.0; +_mobile_valid = false; I also see this was once *fixed*, but removed again for some reason: http://cvs.flightgear.org/cgi-bin/viewvc/viewvc.cgi/FlightGear/src/Instrumentation/tacan.cxx?r1=1.20r2=1.21 I can say that all works perfectly now with this line added to tacan.cxx Nick - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
[Flightgear-devel] lightning tacan
Hello! Nick had some trouble with the tacan on the lightning, so I had a peek at it. Worked for me all right. However, the instrument needle works as if it were a fixed compass card indicator, which it isn't. So there should be an additional rotation applied to adjust for the a/c heading. Patch attached. Please check before commit. Pretty please? ;) I also have some issues: 1) The lightning even has an ILS instrument but I could not find a DME. Have I overlooked it? 2) How do you check if the tacan/vor/adf/whatever radio transmitter is in range? A digital display could go blank, but an instrument needle must point somewhere. Shouldn't there be an indicator light or something? Or is it just left to the pilot to listen for the morse code? 3) In the lightning rmi and hsi animations there are a couple of interpolation tables for identity transformation. Do they have any purpose? Greets, Csaba Index: data/Aircraft/Lightning/Models/rmi.xml === RCS file: /var/cvs/FlightGear-0.9/data/Aircraft/Lightning/Models/rmi.xml,v retrieving revision 1.2 diff -u -r1.2 rmi.xml --- data/Aircraft/Lightning/Models/rmi.xml 2 Dec 2006 21:11:27 - 1.2 +++ data/Aircraft/Lightning/Models/rmi.xml 6 Apr 2007 01:36:50 - @@ -27,6 +27,16 @@ animation typerotate/type object-nameadfNeedle/object-name + propertyorientation/heading-deg/property + axis + x1/x + y0/y + z0/z + /axis + /animation + animation + typerotate/type + object-nameadfNeedle/object-name propertyinstrumentation/tacan/indicated-bearing-true-deg/property interpolation entryind0/inddep0/dep/entry - Take Surveys. Earn Cash. Influence the Future of IT Join SourceForge.net's Techsay panel and you'll get the chance to share your opinions on IT business topics through brief surveys-and earn cash http://www.techsay.com/default.php?page=join.phpp=sourceforgeCID=DEVDEV___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
