Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Am 30.08.12 16:59, schrieb Martin Spott: Tom P wrote: Instead of creating a new server for high-end / more detailed sceneries, would it be possible to create a branch on the current TerraSync server? I think that's possible, maybe even just two different directories with a 'base' Terrain (let's say pure VMap0) and another with the best detail we have. Please remind me of this idea once we're having all ducks in a row to build detailed Terrain anyhow, there probably won't be many users left for the base Terrain by then, and for these we're still having the 1.0.1 Scenery readily available. It could work as an overlay where a more detailed scenery tile takes the place of a base / standard detail tile. That's most likely not going to work because the tile boundaries won't match between base and high-level tiles. Cheers, Martin. Hi Martin May I ask you to move this discussion to the scenery list now ? It’s there to collect scenery related topics, you will find a recent post about some thoughts about future custom scenery creation with jenkins slaves. I will really welcome seeing your experience and thoughts in the discussion there. But it’s your decision of course to use the other mailing list or not. I only fear that there is some danger that some people (not subscribed to both lists, or do not read the main list for other reasons) are out of the loop once, and scenery discussion is spreaded widely over multiple topics in the main list, hard to collect and see all different efforts. Thanks, Yves -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Hi Yves, HB-GRAL wrote: May I ask you to move this discussion to the scenery list now ? I'm not among those who enjoy having multiple different places for discussing the same topic (clarification upon request), therefore I'd prefer to stick with the -devel list. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Am 31.08.12 13:54, schrieb Martin Spott: Hi Yves, HB-GRAL wrote: May I ask you to move this discussion to the scenery list now ? I'm not among those who enjoy having multiple different places for discussing the same topic (clarification upon request), therefore I'd prefer to stick with the -devel list. Cheers, Martin. Hi Martin I was only asking if it is possible for you to help to move scenery discussion to one single place, that’s all. '-devel' list is far from being the scenery discussion central, I’m sorry to say that. Of course, the scenery list isn’t a central too, but when people help and collaborate it could become such a place over time. Now the intention for the scenery list is to get exactly what you describe, not having multiple places for the same topics (forums, irc, private sites/personal blogs, issue tracker, main site, scenery list, devel list etc etc.). Just to say again, it’s far from blaming anyone, it’s just a rustic request to help making scenery collaboration world better. I don’t give up ;-) -Yves -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Tom P wrote: Instead of creating a new server for high-end / more detailed sceneries, would it be possible to create a branch on the current TerraSync server? I think that's possible, maybe even just two different directories with a 'base' Terrain (let's say pure VMap0) and another with the best detail we have. Please remind me of this idea once we're having all ducks in a row to build detailed Terrain anyhow, there probably won't be many users left for the base Terrain by then, and for these we're still having the 1.0.1 Scenery readily available. It could work as an overlay where a more detailed scenery tile takes the place of a base / standard detail tile. That's most likely not going to work because the tile boundaries won't match between base and high-level tiles. Cheers, Martin. -- Unix _IS_ user friendly - it's just selective about who its friends are ! -- -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Hi John, Instead of creating a new server for high-end / more detailed sceneries, would it be possible to create a branch on the current TerraSync server? It could work as an overlay where a more detailed scenery tile takes the place of a base / standard detail tile. The TerraSync client could then be configured to fetch from the base / standard branch, or the more detailed one. And having branches also takes care of older FG versions. Just a thought, Tom On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 11:09 AM, J. Holden stattosoftw...@yahoo.comwrote: Well, the scenery structure is dissimilar to the normal structure of patching git. A scenery like Washington, DC does not have the same frame rate hit as Juneau or Innsbruck does. And as stated there are now sceneries incompatible with older versions of FlightGear. The problem is, some new sceneries are detailed enough and different enough to be distinct from the base scenery. Even if I had git access, I would be reluctant to put these on TerraSync, even though Hawaii and St. Maarten are on there. However, Hawaii is heavily cleaned and St. Maarten is a very simple scenery. I would like to see these areas placed in the base FlightGear package, though. The only idea I've had is perhaps creating a new server for high-end scenery. There's not much of it at the moment, only Europe and selected parts of North America, but it does take up some bandwidth. But setting up a separate distribution channel is better than overwriting the existing scenery. Cheers John -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Try before you buy = See our experts in action! The most comprehensive online learning library for Microsoft developers is just $99.99! Visual Studio, SharePoint, SQL - plus HTML5, CSS3, MVC3, Metro Style Apps, more. Free future releases when you subscribe now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/learndevnow-dev2___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Hi and a Happy New Year, On Thursday, December 29, 2011 14:29:16 ThorstenB wrote: So, rather than forking development into many little subprojects, and finding ways to better support these forks, we should find solutions, so that scenery developers keep joining forces and improve our common scenery world (uh, that sounds cheesy, right?). No, of course it doesn't. One year ago I have compiled some scenery for eastern Europe, using Corine and OSM. At the time, I was not quite aware of the existing infrastructure and effort to maintain a common database (like the PostGis project). Besides, there was the problem of different licenses for various datasets. If someone would like to analyse the compatibility of various licenses with the Flightgear repo, I'll gladly offer the terrain layers for inclusion in a common repository. Also, I can't reliably host the terrain file myself, and other options have some drawbacks too. Where can I find some documentation on contributing such work? For future reference, here is the forum link: http://www.flightgear.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5t=10464 Cheers, Adrian -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Curt: I would be happy to help, though I don't know of many non-CORINE sceneries (Helgoland and some photoreal sceneries). I can make a list of the sceneries I've created and hopefully other scenery developers will come forward? Oliver: All the sceneries I've been creating are GPL, with the exception of the sceneries where I've been using OSM data (unsure about the CC license compatibility with GPL). At the same time I do not support the inclusion of some sceneries I've created in the main FlightGear repository, as users with lower-end machines may wish to use the vmap0 scenery over the more detailed ones - plus there is now a marked difference in scenery versions between scenery compatible with 2.4 and scenery not compatible with 2.4. The user should be allowed to choose. Furthermore, the data I've been creating is also generally available to end-users. Cheers John -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Am 29.12.2011 06:43, schrieb J. Holden: At the same time I do not support the inclusion of some sceneries I've created in the main FlightGear repository, as users with lower-end machines may wish to use the vmap0 scenery over the more detailed ones - plus there is now a marked difference in scenery versions between scenery compatible with 2.4 and scenery not compatible with 2.4. The user should be allowed to choose. All valid points which need to be addressed, especially the compatibility issue. However, the current conclusion, that we therefore need many separate scenery projects, and should even actively proclaim the use of various external sources, doesn't sound right to me. Do these issues really mean that our central scenery project is limited for ever? Just in comparison: what would happen if Fred provided patches for the new shadow support on his private site only, Mathias did the same for HLA and OSG support, Torsten for the NAV radio and environment code etc. Then we create some central website listing all available patches, so people can choose (according to their hardware/performance/interests). And to make it easier for users: we create a large compatibility matrix, describing which patches fit seamlessly together, and which probably don't. That's a possible solution - but neither does that sound right to me... ;-) Results in the same nightmare that Oliver described for scenery. Instead we all contribute to a central Git repo and try to make features configurable - so you can disable 3D clouds, AI traffic, shaders, multiplayer, ... So we should also discuss other solutions for scenery. It'd be possible to abandon the current TerraSync server and switch to a new one. So, FG 0.1 - 2.4 users keep using existing scenery, while new developments (compatible with FG=2.6) are stored on a new central repository. Or we could extend the scenery project to provide two levels of scenery: a lower quality scenery for older FG versions/older machines, and a high quality version for new/powerful machines and recent FG versions (in a somehow separate directory structure). Maybe we have more options. But we need a _common_ solution for these issues here - and I don't think that the scenery compatibility issue was really discussed here yet (but I may be wrong). There'll always be some external scenery projects, same as there are external FG core or Nasal patches. That doesn't matter much as long as these are small compared to the work on the common project. But it gets to be real trouble when almost everyone works on his separate private projects, and therefore progress of the common project slows down significantly. So, rather than forking development into many little subprojects, and finding ways to better support these forks, we should find solutions, so that scenery developers keep joining forces and improve our common scenery world (uh, that sounds cheesy, right?). cheers, Thorsten -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Well, the scenery structure is dissimilar to the normal structure of patching git. A scenery like Washington, DC does not have the same frame rate hit as Juneau or Innsbruck does. And as stated there are now sceneries incompatible with older versions of FlightGear. The problem is, some new sceneries are detailed enough and different enough to be distinct from the base scenery. Even if I had git access, I would be reluctant to put these on TerraSync, even though Hawaii and St. Maarten are on there. However, Hawaii is heavily cleaned and St. Maarten is a very simple scenery. I would like to see these areas placed in the base FlightGear package, though. The only idea I've had is perhaps creating a new server for high-end scenery. There's not much of it at the moment, only Europe and selected parts of North America, but it does take up some bandwidth. But setting up a separate distribution channel is better than overwriting the existing scenery. Cheers John -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
Hi John, Has anyone attempted to assemble a master list of enhanced scenery areas? It would also be nice to make note of the license/distribution requirements of each area. I'd be happy to have such a list on the main download site, but I'd need some helpers to do the leg work to track down the various areas, authors, links, and info, and then help keep the list as up to date as possible. Thanks, Curt. On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:37 AM, John Holden wrote: I've now uploaded sceneries for Miami and Orlando in Florida. I plan to start on Sacramento - right north of the default scenery area - tomorrow. Miami: http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear/miami.zip Orlando: http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear/orlando.zip This scenery works only with 2.5 or above. Also, when downloading 2.5, I think it would be nice to give users the option to download some of these more detailed scenery areas - not just the ones I've generated, but some of the European (and Asian?) sceneries as well. Cheers John -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] Some More Detailed Scenery
The worst thing with MS Flight Simulator is the requirement to manually collect all sorts of addons, scenery files etc. all scattered over different places, websites on the internet with different installation guidance, setup programms, download sites and login registration procedures or even incompatibilities between the addons. This is a real nightmare for the user. That isn't necessary with flightgear, when everything is in the main official scenery packages or git data repository of the flightgear project. The price for this is to require only one license, the GPL. And there should be a motivation for the editors to put their scenery work under the GPL, the motivation can be, that the data is available in the main scenery repository under one place. So in my opinion, i wouldn't support other editors and scenery projects, that want go their own way with their own license on different websites all scattered over the internet by placing a link to all these projects on the main flightgear website. It leads to a nightmare for the user, like it is the case with MS Flight Simulator or X-Plane today. Collecting all sort of stuff over different places is a mess and time consuming. Best Regards, Oliver C. Am Mittwoch, den 28.12.2011, 11:16 -0600 schrieb Curtis Olson: Hi John, Has anyone attempted to assemble a master list of enhanced scenery areas? It would also be nice to make note of the license/distribution requirements of each area. I'd be happy to have such a list on the main download site, but I'd need some helpers to do the leg work to track down the various areas, authors, links, and info, and then help keep the list as up to date as possible. Thanks, Curt. On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 12:37 AM, John Holden wrote: I've now uploaded sceneries for Miami and Orlando in Florida. I plan to start on Sacramento - right north of the default scenery area - tomorrow. Miami: http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear/miami.zip Orlando: http://www.stattosoftware.com/flightgear/orlando.zip This scenery works only with 2.5 or above. Also, when downloading 2.5, I think it would be nice to give users the option to download some of these more detailed scenery areas - not just the ones I've generated, but some of the European (and Asian?) sceneries as well. Cheers John -- Write once. Port to many. Get the SDK and tools to simplify cross-platform app development. Create new or port existing apps to sell to consumers worldwide. Explore the Intel AppUpSM program developer opportunity. appdeveloper.intel.com/join http://p.sf.net/sfu/intel-appdev ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Curtis Olson: http://www.atiak.com - http://aem.umn.edu/~uav/ http://www.flightgear.org - http://gallinazo.flightgear.org -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Ridiculously easy VDI. With Citrix VDI-in-a-Box, you don't need a complex infrastructure or vast IT resources to deliver seamless, secure access to virtual desktops. With this all-in-one solution, easily deploy virtual desktops for less than the cost of PCs and save 60% on VDI infrastructure costs. Try it free! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Citrix-VDIinabox ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list Flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/flightgear-devel
