Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
I assume either the FOP developers know why there's a circular reference and have the resolution or they just use the compiled jars and ignore the issue. Just about the entire open source community disagrees with you. Everyone treats ant, maven, and (for that matter) gcc as opaque packages, not as source dependencies. It's a tool.
RE: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
I don't know what you're talking about but it sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. AFAIK maven is a tool. I have yet to see a source package reference maven in build dependancies. Ant is a dependancies. If I don't specifically have ant in the Build Path I can't compile FOP. I get 55 errors on version 1.0. Ant is open source or there wouldn't be this discussion. I downloaded the source to FOP to compile my own jar, initially because the compiled jar offered didn't work because it included a classpath in the manifest and I'm using it with other software which has it's own classpath builder. To compile FOP I added all the classes it needed in the build path (gets errors without them). I downloaded them as source if they made the source available and for one or two old jars I couldn't find a source I grabbed a compiled jar. Ant has source you can download. It is open source. Don't speak for the open source community. Your response has nothing to do with the question (why the circular reference?). The discussion didn't need your two cents. -Original Message- From: Benson Margulies [mailto:bimargul...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 2:47 PM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I assume either the FOP developers know why there's a circular reference and have the resolution or they just use the compiled jars and ignore the issue. Just about the entire open source community disagrees with you. Everyone treats ant, maven, and (for that matter) gcc as opaque packages, not as source dependencies. It's a tool.
Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
You'll find it here: http://ant.apache.org/bindownload.cgi On 19 July 2011 14:07, mehdi houshmand med1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
RE: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
The circular referencing doesn't make sense, but I'm compiling in Eclipse Helios on Windows XP. I found that Eclipse does come with an ant folder under it's plugin path so I started with the ant.jar from there. -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:08 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Eric, Unless you are working on Gentoo Linux, you should not even consider this path. Just download ant. Ant, being a build tool, has a complex bootstrap process. ant.apache.org will provide you with a zip file with a perfectly working copy of Ant you can use. On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: The circular referencing doesn't make sense, but I'm compiling in Eclipse Helios on Windows XP. I found that Eclipse does come with an ant folder under it's plugin path so I started with the ant.jar from there. -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:08 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
One of the many beauties of linux is the repositories handle these things for you. But basically you need to use ant directly, you don't need to compile it, it can be done from the command prompt, you just need to put ant in the environment variables %PATH%, instructions can be found here: http://ant.apache.org/manual/install.html I'd just install Cygwin and save myself the hassle of dealing with the command prompt in Windows, but then you maybe more Windows literate than me. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 15:38, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: The circular referencing doesn't make sense, but I'm compiling in Eclipse Helios on Windows XP. I found that Eclipse does come with an ant folder under it's plugin path so I started with the ant.jar from there. -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:08 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
RE: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
I've tried to reference a source project rather than a compiled jar wherever possible. The annoying part of referencing the compiled jar is when I run from the IDE in debug mode and it pops up windows saying no code attached. Plus I thought it made more sense to have the source for everything open sourced in case there's any reusable code or any confusion on what the methods do. -Original Message- From: Benson Margulies [mailto:bimargul...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:49 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Eric, Unless you are working on Gentoo Linux, you should not even consider this path. Just download ant. Ant, being a build tool, has a complex bootstrap process. ant.apache.org will provide you with a zip file with a perfectly working copy of Ant you can use. On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: The circular referencing doesn't make sense, but I'm compiling in Eclipse Helios on Windows XP. I found that Eclipse does come with an ant folder under it's plugin path so I started with the ant.jar from there. -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:08 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Hi Eric, Well, that kind of depends on how you work. It's always good to have the source at hand if you want to look, but realistically, you're never going to delve into the ant code. If you want further help, could you post on the ant forums, this isn't a FOP issue. Sorry if not helped, Mehdi On 19 July 2011 16:09, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: I've tried to reference a source project rather than a compiled jar wherever possible. The annoying part of referencing the compiled jar is when I run from the IDE in debug mode and it pops up windows saying no code attached. Plus I thought it made more sense to have the source for everything open sourced in case there's any reusable code or any confusion on what the methods do. -Original Message- From: Benson Margulies [mailto:bimargul...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:49 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Eric, Unless you are working on Gentoo Linux, you should not even consider this path. Just download ant. Ant, being a build tool, has a complex bootstrap process. ant.apache.org will provide you with a zip file with a perfectly working copy of Ant you can use. On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: The circular referencing doesn't make sense, but I'm compiling in Eclipse Helios on Windows XP. I found that Eclipse does come with an ant folder under it's plugin path so I started with the ant.jar from there. -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:08 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
RE: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
I assume either the FOP developers know why there's a circular reference and have the resolution or they just use the compiled jars and ignore the issue. Starting with the compiled ant.jar which comes with the Eclipse download resolved the issue even though it didn't answer the question. Thanks -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 11:23 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, Well, that kind of depends on how you work. It's always good to have the source at hand if you want to look, but realistically, you're never going to delve into the ant code. If you want further help, could you post on the ant forums, this isn't a FOP issue. Sorry if not helped, Mehdi On 19 July 2011 16:09, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: I've tried to reference a source project rather than a compiled jar wherever possible. The annoying part of referencing the compiled jar is when I run from the IDE in debug mode and it pops up windows saying no code attached. Plus I thought it made more sense to have the source for everything open sourced in case there's any reusable code or any confusion on what the methods do. -Original Message- From: Benson Margulies [mailto:bimargul...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:49 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Eric, Unless you are working on Gentoo Linux, you should not even consider this path. Just download ant. Ant, being a build tool, has a complex bootstrap process. ant.apache.org will provide you with a zip file with a perfectly working copy of Ant you can use. On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: The circular referencing doesn't make sense, but I'm compiling in Eclipse Helios on Windows XP. I found that Eclipse does come with an ant folder under it's plugin path so I started with the ant.jar from there. -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:08 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
first, this is rather out of scope for FOP and this mail list; i doubt if any other dev is building these tools from source just to use when working with FOP; i certainly am not; on the other hand, I do keep the sources of these tools on hand for documentation purposes; i suggest you use binaries of the tools, and not attempt to compile them from sources unless absolutely necessary (e.g., to fix or debug a tool bug); otherwise, you are just making extra work for yourself On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 9:56 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.comwrote: I assume either the FOP developers know why there's a circular reference and have the resolution or they just use the compiled jars and ignore the issue. Starting with the compiled ant.jar which comes with the Eclipse download resolved the issue even though it didn't answer the question. Thanks -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 11:23 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, Well, that kind of depends on how you work. It's always good to have the source at hand if you want to look, but realistically, you're never going to delve into the ant code. If you want further help, could you post on the ant forums, this isn't a FOP issue. Sorry if not helped, Mehdi On 19 July 2011 16:09, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: I've tried to reference a source project rather than a compiled jar wherever possible. The annoying part of referencing the compiled jar is when I run from the IDE in debug mode and it pops up windows saying no code attached. Plus I thought it made more sense to have the source for everything open sourced in case there's any reusable code or any confusion on what the methods do. -Original Message- From: Benson Margulies [mailto:bimargul...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 10:49 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Eric, Unless you are working on Gentoo Linux, you should not even consider this path. Just download ant. Ant, being a build tool, has a complex bootstrap process. ant.apache.org will provide you with a zip file with a perfectly working copy of Ant you can use. On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: The circular referencing doesn't make sense, but I'm compiling in Eclipse Helios on Windows XP. I found that Eclipse does come with an ant folder under it's plugin path so I started with the ant.jar from there. -Original Message- From: mehdi houshmand [mailto:med1...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:08 AM To: fop-dev@xmlgraphics.apache.org Subject: Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Hi Eric, What operating system are you working on? You probably don't need to compile ant, there will almost definitely be binaries for your operating system. Mehdi On 19 July 2011 13:58, Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com wrote: If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant.
Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
On 19 Jul 2011, at 14:58, Eric Douglas wrote: Hi Eric As already mentioned by Mehdi and Benson, unless you are really serious about debugging the Ant source code, it is probably preferable to only reference a binary. Some more thoughts on the inter-depencies (ultimately circular, yes, but no real issue, unless you absolutely want to compile *everything* from the sources): If I try to compile fop source it says it requires ant. That is strictly speaking not a 'hard requirement', in the sense that FOP does not absolutely need Ant to work correctly. The only classes in FOP with dependencies on Ant are located in org.apache.fop.tools.anttask. If you do not need FOP's Ant task functionality, it is conceivable to compile FOP without it, and thus remove the dependency... The reason we, fop-devs, do not stumble over it, is likely because we are used to running FOP's Ant build, either from the command-line or from within the IDE. That presupposes that Ant is already available on the classpath, so the link from org.apache.fop.tools.anttask is satisfied. I do remember having to explicitly include ant.jar for using the compile/make functionality in my IDE directly, though, so it is not unknown. If I download the source for ant and try to compile it says it requires bsf. If I download the source for bsf and try to compile it says it requires jython. If I download the source for jython and try to compile it says it requires ant. Very likely (unchecked in detail) a similar story here: Jython probably references Ant only in its own ant.Task subclasses (org.python.util.JythoncAntTask, org.python.util.JycompileAntTask, etc.?) Hope this explains it somewhat. Andreas ---
Re: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
2011/7/19 Eric Douglas edoug...@blockhouse.com: I've tried to reference a source project rather than a compiled jar wherever possible. The annoying part of referencing the compiled jar is when I run from the IDE in debug mode and it pops up windows saying no code attached. Plus I thought it made more sense to have the source for everything open sourced in case there's any reusable code or any confusion on what the methods do. Eric, I suggest you to use jar unless you don't need to change the code. In most of the developing tools there is a way to bind the source code jar to the compiled jar in order to have all the debug features. In Eclipse, for instance, this can be achieved from the Project - Properties - Java Build Path dialog box: here you can add external (compiled) jar as desired. Once you have added a jar, click on the small triangle near the jar name, and you have new options: click on the source attachment option and insert the path of the source code jar. Done :-) G. -- Giuseppe Briotti g.brio...@gmail.com Alme Sol, curru nitido diem qui promis et celas aliusque et idem nasceris, possis nihil urbe Roma visere maius. (Orazio)
