Re: AW: TMCA
At 5:24 pm +0200 27/2/2003, Johan Åbrandt wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... This lingo thing feeld like slang, something that restrict groups use to encode meaning in a way outsiders cannot percieve. Reading text stuffed with it is like talking to my teenager niece: sometimes I cannot understand a word... But I must learn to live with it, otherwise when my 7-month old daughter begins to talk I willl be excluded So I guess This 'lingo' thing servers the same purpose as quoting philosophers after your signature, i.e. to show that you belong to a group - to which only persons of a certain standard - for example knowledge of contemporary philosophy - or internet abreviations - can belong. It increases your standing with persons who understand - and helps in keeping distance from those who dont. Is this what you meant? I don't think that it is what he meant (but there is nothing wrong with your argument). As I read it, the OP saw a 4 letter acronym and thought that it related to XSLT, XSL-FO, XHTML or some such, and felt hurt and a little sore when after some effort he found that PITA did not relate to the subject domain. I agree that a little help may be needed to get everyone up to speed with abbreviations and acronyms used on mailing lists (AFAICT, FWIW, IIRC et cetera), but I would argue that such abbreviations are for use rather than ornamentation, and strongly concur with posting sites where they can be interpreted. I would add, for the benefit of the OP, that they can be assigned the same meaning in different languages with no penalty, save that the the letters don't match exactly: URL: http://www.intersolinc.com/newsletters/newsltr5.htm SI - Système International - International System of Units URL: http://www.plexoft.com/SBF/S06.html SIDA - Syndrome immunodÈficitaire acquis - Acquired Immuno-deficiency Syndrome URL: http://www.teenaids.org/gnTeens/glossary.html and so forth. Ben -- Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of ewitness Limited shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. eWitness Limited, Alpha House, Redvers Close, Lawnswood Business Park, Leeds, LS16 6QY Telephone: 0113 2951112 Fax: 0113 2951114 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AW: TMCA
Maybe the wiseguys around here should stop putting this non-English speaker down and spare a thought for what he is saying. Sure, acronyms save some time, but there is a price. I initially struggled with many acronyms, and I am a native. Add to that the fact that certain acronyms (e.g. PITA) would be quite offensive to a non-native speaker unaware of the idiomatic usage, who is simply translating verbatim. The fact is that we are trying to cultivate a multi-cultural environment. Suggestions for improving that environment should be taken seriously, even if, in the end, they are not acted on. Peter Ben Fowler wrote: At 5:24 pm +0200 27/2/2003, Johan Åbrandt wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... This lingo thing feeld like slang, something that restrict groups use to encode meaning in a way outsiders cannot percieve. Reading text stuffed with it is like talking to my teenager niece: sometimes I cannot understand a word... But I must learn to live with it, otherwise when my 7-month old daughter begins to talk I willl be excluded So I guess This 'lingo' thing servers the same purpose as quoting philosophers after your signature, i.e. to show that you belong to a group - to which only persons of a certain standard - for example knowledge of contemporary philosophy - or internet abreviations - can belong. It increases your standing with persons who understand - and helps in keeping distance from those who dont. Is this what you meant? I don't think that it is what he meant (but there is nothing wrong with your argument). As I read it, the OP saw a 4 letter acronym and thought that it related to XSLT, XSL-FO, XHTML or some such, and felt hurt and a little sore when after some effort he found that PITA did not relate to the subject domain. I agree that a little help may be needed to get everyone up to speed with abbreviations and acronyms used on mailing lists (AFAICT, FWIW, IIRC et cetera), but I would argue that such abbreviations are for use rather than ornamentation, and strongly concur with posting sites where they can be interpreted. I would add, for the benefit of the OP, that they can be assigned the same meaning in different languages with no penalty, save that the the letters don't match exactly: URL: http://www.intersolinc.com/newsletters/newsltr5.htm SI - Système International - International System of Units URL: http://www.plexoft.com/SBF/S06.html SIDA - Syndrome immunodÈficitaire acquis - Acquired Immuno-deficiency Syndrome URL: http://www.teenaids.org/gnTeens/glossary.html -- Peter B. West [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/ Lord, to whom shall we go? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: AW: TMCA
Title: RE: AW: TMCA Folks, this is not the place for this kind of a conversation. Rob -Original Message- From: Peter B. West [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 11:03 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: AW: TMCA Maybe the wiseguys around here should stop putting this non-English speaker down and spare a thought for what he is saying. Sure, acronyms save some time, but there is a price. I initially struggled with many acronyms, and I am a native. Add to that the fact that certain acronyms (e.g. PITA) would be quite offensive to a non-native speaker unaware of the idiomatic usage, who is simply translating verbatim. The fact is that we are trying to cultivate a multi-cultural environment. Suggestions for improving that environment should be taken seriously, even if, in the end, they are not acted on. Peter Ben Fowler wrote: At 5:24 pm +0200 27/2/2003, Johan Åbrandt wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... This lingo thing feeld like slang, something that restrict groups use to encode meaning in a way outsiders cannot percieve. Reading text stuffed with it is like talking to my teenager niece: sometimes I cannot understand a word... But I must learn to live with it, otherwise when my 7-month old daughter begins to talk I willl be excluded So I guess This 'lingo' thing servers the same purpose as quoting philosophers after your signature, i.e. to show that you belong to a group - to which only persons of a certain standard - for example knowledge of contemporary philosophy - or internet abreviations - can belong. It increases your standing with persons who understand - and helps in keeping distance from those who dont. Is this what you meant? I don't think that it is what he meant (but there is nothing wrong with your argument). As I read it, the OP saw a 4 letter acronym and thought that it related to XSLT, XSL-FO, XHTML or some such, and felt hurt and a little sore when after some effort he found that PITA did not relate to the subject domain. I agree that a little help may be needed to get everyone up to speed with abbreviations and acronyms used on mailing lists (AFAICT, FWIW, IIRC et cetera), but I would argue that such abbreviations are for use rather than ornamentation, and strongly concur with posting sites where they can be interpreted. I would add, for the benefit of the OP, that they can be assigned the same meaning in different languages with no penalty, save that the the letters don't match exactly: URL: http://www.intersolinc.com/newsletters/newsltr5.htm SI - Système International - International System of Units URL: http://www.plexoft.com/SBF/S06.html SIDA - Syndrome immunodÈficitaire acquis - Acquired Immuno-deficiency Syndrome URL: http://www.teenaids.org/gnTeens/glossary.html -- Peter B. West [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/ Lord, to whom shall we go? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AW: TMCA
Rob, Fair enough. Wiseguys was a mistake on my part, of the kind I was criticising. Peter Rob Stote wrote: Folks, this is not the place for this kind of a conversation. Rob -Original Message- From: Peter B. West [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 11:03 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: AW: TMCA Maybe the wiseguys around here should stop putting this non-English -- Peter B. West [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.powerup.com.au/~pbwest/ Lord, to whom shall we go? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TMCA
Sorry to bother you all with this mundane subject, but I must ask you to refrain from using Too Many Cryptic Acronyms. I can find easily the definition for technical acronyms, and even some common ones like ASAP, BTW and IMHO, but it is very hard to find the meaning of others -- most of them can't be found in dictionaries, and we non-anglophones simply have no way of guessing what they mean... I spent 20 minutes on google just to find what is a PITA. A few extra keystrokes don't hurt, but can do wonders for clarity and save us a lot of time. By the way, typing PITA instead of writing it out in full does not minorate the impact of the expression. ...TYVM? = Marcelo Jaccoud Amaral Petrobrás (http://www.petrobras.com.br) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = Language is by its very nature a communal thing; that is, it expresses never the exact thing but a compromise--that which is common to you, me, and everybody.--T. E. Hulme - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TMCA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to bother you all with this mundane subject, but I must ask you to refrain from using Too Many Cryptic Acronyms. I can find easily the definition for technical acronyms, and even some common ones like ASAP, BTW and IMHO, but it is very hard to find the meaning of others -- most of them can't be found in dictionaries, and we non-anglophones simply have no way of guessing what they mean... I spent 20 minutes on google just to find what is a PITA. http://www.keno.org/acronyms.htm I spent 20 seconds finding that on google...but then I did RTFM =) __ This message and its attachments have been found clean from known viruses with three different antivirus programs. __ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TMCA
At 10:21 am -0300 27/2/2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... By the way, typing PITA instead of writing it out in full does not minorate the impact of the expression. It most definitely does minish what would otherwise be an offensive expression. Consider RTFM as another example. Sure you may need to check these expressions when you first meet them, but the saving in time and gain to communication last for ever. Ben, -- Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of ewitness Limited shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. eWitness Limited, Alpha House, Redvers Close, Lawnswood Business Park, Leeds, LS16 6QY Telephone: 0113 2951112 Fax: 0113 2951114 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AW: TMCA
Thank you all for the links, they will surely help when I get stucked again. This lingo thing feeld like slang, something that restrict groups use to encode meaning in a way outsiders cannot percieve. Reading text stuffed with it is like talking to my teenager niece: sometimes I cannot understand a word... But I must learn to live with it, otherwise when my 7-month old daughter begins to talk I willl be excluded = Marcelo Jaccoud Amaral Petrobrás (http://www.petrobras.com.br) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = All the good maxims already exist in the world; we just fail to apply them. --Pascal Müller, Markus [EMAIL PROTECTED]Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED] dm.de cc: Assunto: AW: TMCA 27/02/2003 10:23 Favor responder a fop-user Hi, just a little help for finding acromynms: http://www.lingo2word.com/lists/acronym_listI.html But you're right, acronyms don't make it easier to read mails. MM - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: AW: TMCA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you all for the links, they will surely help when I get stucked again. This lingo thing feeld like slang, something that restrict groups use to encode meaning in a way outsiders cannot percieve. Reading text stuffed with it is like talking to my teenager niece: sometimes I cannot understand a word... But I must learn to live with it, otherwise when my 7-month old daughter begins to talk I willl be excluded So I guess This 'lingo' thing servers the same purpose as quoting philosophers after your signature, i.e. to show that you belong to a group - to which only persons of a certain standard - for example knowledge of contemporary philosophy - or internet abreviations - can belong. It increases your standing with persons who understand - and helps in keeping distance from those who dont. Is this what you meant? All the good maxims already exist in the world; we just fail to apply them. --Pascal __ This message and its attachments have been found clean from known viruses with three different antivirus programs. __ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
