Re: Resigning from the Board

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 02/17/2010 12:36 PM, Alberto Ruiz wrote:
> I hope we can find someone as cheerful and dedicated as you are.

Alberto!  Looks like you didn't read his email completely.  We already found
someone as cheerful and dedicated: Jorge Castro :).

behdad
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Stepping down from the board

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Hi,

When I decided to run for the foundation board in 2006, many of the old timers
where not running again and there was the feeling that new people are needed
on the board.  The board work has been very educational and rewarding for me,
but given other engagements and all the new, capable, people on the board this
year, I think it's time for me to step down so I can focus on hacking.

The board has decided to appoint Paul Culter to take the seat.  Paul has been
doing wonders on the marketing team, GNOME Journal, and the sysadmin team.
I'm sure this opportunity gives him more ways to contribute to GNOME even more.

Cheers,
behdad
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Re: Stepping down from the board

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 03/12/2010 03:54 PM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:

> The board has decided to appoint Paul Cutler to take the seat.

Oops, seems like I misspelled Paul's name.  Fixed now.

behdad
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Re: Stepping down from the board

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Thank you all for the nice words.  I hope to remain an approachable member of
the community.  Feel free to drop me a line if I can help with anything.

behdad

On 03/12/2010 07:42 PM, john palmieri wrote:
> Sorry to see you leave Behdad.  You have been a machine on the board. 
> Paul has his work cut out to fill your shoes but knowing Paul and the
> amount of energy he has put into GNOME I have no doubt he is up to the
> challenge.  I'm looking forward to the continuing good works coming out
> of the Board.
> 
> On Fri, Mar 12, 2010 at 6:19 PM, Behdad Esfahbod  <mailto:beh...@behdad.org>> wrote:
> 
>     On 03/12/2010 03:54 PM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> 
> > The board has decided to appoint Paul Cutler to take the seat.
> 
> Oops, seems like I misspelled Paul's name.  Fixed now.
> 
> behdad
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release-announce-list?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Hi,

I want to suggest creating a release-announce-list and use that for new
package release announcements instead of gnome-announce-list. That would
significantly reduce the "noise" on gnome-announce-list for people who are not
interested in individual package releases.

behdad
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Re: release-announce-list?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 03/23/2010 02:59 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Le mardi 23 mars 2010, à 14:49 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod a écrit :
>> Hi,
>>
>> I want to suggest creating a release-announce-list and use that for new
>> package release announcements instead of gnome-announce-list. That would
>> significantly reduce the "noise" on gnome-announce-list for people who are 
>> not
>> interested in individual package releases.
> 
> Stupid question, but what would be left on gnome-announce-list? :-)

Announcement of GNOME releases and press releases, not individual modules.  A
list that a person casually interested in GNOME can hang around on to stay up
to date with GNOME in general.

> Also, do we really need a release-announce-list when we have
> ftp-release-list?

That's what I wonder also.  I stopped sending email announcements long time
ago.  Checking ftp-release-list, I think we should simply move over to that.
Except also advertise external modules to send their release announcements 
there?

behdad

> Vincent
> 
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Re: Providing previously missing board meeting minutes

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 04/14/2010 07:20 PM, Brian Cameron wrote:
> So she asked me to flesh out the Wiki
> so it includes links to all meeting minutes back to the year 2000.

This is great Brian.  Thanks!

behdad

> I have done this, refer here:
> 
>   http://live.gnome.org/FoundationBoard/Minutes
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Re: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 06/01/2010 12:18 PM, Xavier Bestel wrote:
> User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.24.0.100205
> Date: Tue, 01 Jun 2010 08:41:19 -0700
> Subject: FW: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy
> From: "Lefty (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCQFA2QBsoQg==?= )" 
> 
> I find it quite amusing that you're using a Microsoft client on an Apple
> pc to defend your GNOME candidacy.

Wait a second.  What does Lefty's email client has to do with Seif's candidacy?

behdad


> Kudos for your sense of humor (or is it just plain provocation ?).
> 
>   Xav
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Re: Candidacy: Seif Lotfy

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 06/01/2010 01:08 PM, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote:
> On 6/1/10 10:01 AM, "Xavier Bestel"  wrote:
>>
>> Err .. nothing, except my extraordinary ability to mix their names ? :)
> 
> You're displaying quite a host of "extraordinary abilities" this morning.

Can we please stop this subthread now?

behdad
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Re: Meeting Minutes Published - August 19, 2010

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 09/03/10 04:48, Dave Neary wrote:
> While I was on the board, I worked with James Vasile on a trademark
> license contract, which should be part of the material the board has,
> for that jeweller, and James tried to make something modular that could
> be reused. That contract has no automatic renewal clause, and ran for an
> X year term (X=2 is set in a prefix). I have the last revision we came
> up with (Stormy should have it too, and it's in board-list archives).
> Let me know if you want me to send it on.

When I was last on board I had started gathering such documents here:

  http://live.gnome.org/FoundationBoardPrivate/Documents

But can't find them anymore.  Either someone removed that page or I'm not
allowed to see it (which I assumed as a previous board member I would be).

behdad
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Re: Tee-Shirt Contest & Countries Eligibility

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 11/17/10 13:20, Tristan Van Berkom wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 2:48 AM, Baptiste Mille-Mathias
>  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I've seen the foundation will organize a contest to design a tee-shirt
>> for the GNOME 3 release [1], and while reading the terms of the rules
>> [2], I found the first part of paragraph 4 particularly unfair to
>> people living in some countries.
>> GNOME being based on people and openness, I wonder how a Free Software
>> & Non-profit organisation wouldcomply with such US embargo related
>> laws.
>> How it could make sense to refuse a proposal for a contest, but coding
>> contribution and translations are accepted everyday?
>>
>> If there's no way around such restrictions, could it be possible for
>> the foundation to look for some way to avoid them in the future (by
>> creating a delegation in another country perhaps) ?
> 
> For what it's worth, motion strongly seconded.

For what it's worth, GNOME pretty much ignores such regulations in all its
other dealings.  Doesn't necessarily mean that it's violating any law.  It
just doesn't bother checking.  Doing it for such a small contest sounds
overkill to me.

behdad


> These rules sound outright offensive to residents of some countries,
> furthermore they make the GNOME foundation publicly appear to be
> actively supporting US embargo laws.
> 
> If it's impossible to change the rules for the term of this contest, we should
> at least include a statement at http://www.gnome.org/contest/ explaining
> why we are bound by law etc, etc, to enforce these particular biased rules...
> and hopefully promising to do better the next time around.
> 
> Best regards,
>  -Tristan
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Re: Tee-Shirt Contest & Countries Eligibility

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 11/17/10 13:35, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:

> For what it's worth, GNOME pretty much ignores such regulations in all its
> other dealings.  Doesn't necessarily mean that it's violating any law.  It
> just doesn't bother checking.  Doing it for such a small contest sounds
> overkill to me.

Plus, if not paying the winners cash means that we can get away with it, I
suggest we just give them ten tshirts instead of $100.

> behdad
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Re: Tee-Shirt Contest & Countries Eligibility

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 11/18/10 02:11, Richard Stallman wrote:
> It is better than excluding them.

Agreed.

b
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Re: GNOME trademarks

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 12/08/10 05:34, Andy Wingo wrote:
> On Wed 08 Dec 2010 10:00, Murray Cumming  writes:
> 
>> If we ever try to sell nuts then we may have a problem.
> 
> Presumably we may however offer nuts at an event, though without perhaps
> labelling them as GNOME nuts.
> 
> We may feel free to label the attendees as such though, as it is a
> different use of the word.

Just to clarify, label the attendees nuts or GNOME? :)

behdad


> Andy
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Re: [Fwd: GNOME Developer Survey]

[Behdad Esfahbod]

+1.

We already have survey infrastructures setup for foundation use.  Maybe next
time someone comes along we can use their time to run a survey that the board
approved and is conducted on our own infrastructure, under our own terms.

behdad

On 01/31/11 05:05, Michael Meeks wrote:
> 
>   These people are irritating ... three spams from the same group. They
> shot themselves in the foot in the third paragraph with the "twenty
> minutes" IMHO.
> 
>   Can I suggest that the Board complains to these guys for hassling our
> contributors - and/or is this sanctioned - I assume it must be since
> they use the trademark in their 'GNOME developer survey' title.
> 
>   Furthermore - since these surveys are at least somewhat frequent, can I
> suggest that in future, the foundation acts as an intermediary:
> 
>   * to review the content of these surveys pwrt. brevity
>   * to normalise some questions such that we have a consistent
> set of questions over time we can graph.
>   * to broker and publish the complete raw data under some
> suitable open license.
>   * provide some financial incentive to the foundation per
> respondant, rather than some uncertain prize
>   * to do the mailing of questions themselves - and do this
> only once.
> 
>   HTH,
> 
>   Michael.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Readability publisher sign-up for *.gnome.org

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 08/26/11 20:36, Alan Cox wrote:
>> I suspect the most likely sub-domain to be read via Readability is
>> blogs.gnome.org, which would raise the question of whether it's right
>> for the Gnome Foundation to accept the money from people reading
>> Foundation-hosted blog posts. I think it's probably reasonable, but I'm
>> just one person writing mundane things. ;)
> 
> I would be surprised if the Gnome Foundation had legal authority and
> ownership rights to authorise any redesign of such material as it isn't
> the rightsholder in question.

Well, we are reformating and republishing already.  How's that different?
Just wondering.

behdad

> Alan
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Re: Boston Summit logistics (was Re: Desktop Summit Planning)

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Can we have next one in Toronto please? :D
I can run.

On 12/16/2011 12:45 PM, john palmieri wrote:
> 2011/12/16 Máirín Duffy :
>> On Fri, 2011-12-16 at 10:39 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote:
>>> Thanks so much for offering to look into this, Richard! I hear that the
>>> Stata Center was a better location in the past than the Economics 
>>> Building
>>> if we have the choice...
>>>
>>> When it was in the Stata Center, which rooms were they?  If I get the
>>> room numbers, I will know exactly what to ask for.
>>
>> From what I can tell from the wiki, we were in the Stata center most
>> recently in 2005 and haven't been since.
>>
>> Stata Center rooms:
>> - Kirsch Auditorium
>> - Room 124
>> - Room 144
>> - Room 154
>> - Hallway between those rooms for a registration + food table
>>
>> (more details https://live.gnome.org/Boston2005/TheSchedule)
>>
>> Alternatively, in 2006 we were in the Media Lab:
>> - Bartos Theatre
>> - Rothschild Room
>> - Wiesner Room
>> - Room 235
>> - Room 135
>> - Room 483A
>> - Room 443A
>> - "Cool Hangout Room"
>>
>> (more details https://live.gnome.org/Boston2006)
>>
>> In 2008, 2009, & 2010 we were at the MIT Sloan Tang Center / E51
>> Building:
>> - E51-315
>> - E51-325
>> - E51-335
>> - E51-345
>> - E51-372
>> - E51-376
>> - Hallway between those rooms for a registration + food table
>>
>> (more details https://live.gnome.org/Boston2010)
>>
>> I'm not sure which is the economics building (I guess E51?)
>>
>> Anyway I hope this list helps.
>>
>> ~m
> 
> The problem with the Stata Center is it costs money, is harder to book
> and the rooms do not hold as much and usually we need an extra room
> outside the main hall.  The Tang center is usually given to us gratis,
> have huge rooms with AV equipment, no AV setup charges and is usually
> easy to book during the columbus day weekend.  It isn't as sexy as the
> Stata Center but it fits our needs much better.  Also I have to note
> that I think booking for next year doesn't start until February or
> March.
> 
> --
> John (J5) Palmieri
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Re: Desktop Summit Planning

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 12/14/2011 09:34 AM, Richard Hughes wrote:
> First things first, I'll be happy if we have a GUADEC or a desktop
> summit, both events rocked hard. My preference would be for the
> former, just on the personal belief that I end up doing so much extra
> work for the KDE desktop and get virtually nothing back. It seems to
> me that low level gnome hackers end up doing all the infrastructure
> grunt work in the name of cross-desktop compatibility and then KDE
> either does something different or abstracts it one layer higher. I
> can't think of one system service we use in the GNOME stack that's
> maintained by a KDE person. I can name a dozen GNOME maintainers doing
> the opposite.

Yeah.  That's the sad reality.  To add my perspective on the text rendering
side, I finally got Jiang Jiang's attention to start porting Qt to
HarfBuzz-ng, but in general there's really no attention from the Qt side on
Linux.  Not anymore.

behdad
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Re: Could a few influential GNOME develoers join gnu-prog-disc...@gnu.org?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

I know I used to be on that mailing list. I don't remember
unsubscribing from it, but I haven't seen communications in quite a
while. But then again, maybe I unsubscribed and I dont remember.

behdad

On 2012-01-17, at 9:36 PM, Richard Stallman  wrote:

>Can't these be brought up on proper GNOME lists then? Especially
>seeing as there is no public archive for your GNU list.
>
> We use this list for private discussions about GNU in general.
> Sometimes the issues relate to GNOME, but that doesn't mean
> they're specifically about GNOME.  It would be useful for
> some GNOME developers with responsibility and influence
> to be included.
>
> In the middle of a broader discussion about internationalization, not
> specifically about GNOME, someone mentioned this:
>
>Another problem I stumbled upon is the new habit of software like
>Gnome and/or desktop handlers to use localized names for
>directories such as ~/Desktop.  This is a pure nuisance, depending
>on my locale ~/Desktop becomes ~/Bureau or ~/Labortablo.
>
> A GNOME developer in the list would have seen this and could have
> responded, raises the issue in the appropriate GNOME list, or whatever
> is TRT.  It isn't feasible for me, and I don't know who to ask.
>
> (I think that person was right: learning one English word `Desktop' is
> not much of a burden, and on the other hand, this feature can cause a
> real nuisance for users that use multiple locales.)
>
> --
> Dr Richard Stallman
> President, Free Software Foundation
> 51 Franklin St
> Boston MA 02110
> USA
> www.fsf.org  www.gnu.org
> Skype: No way! That's nonfree (freedom-denying) software.
>  Use free telephony http://directory.fsf.org/category/tel/
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Re: Boston Summit?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 04/27/2012 07:30 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> So I realize it's still quite early, but are we planning on having
> the Boston Summit in Boston and over Columbus Day weekend?

Can we have in Toronto please?

behdad
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Re: Boston Summit?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 04/27/2012 11:49 AM, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
> On 04/27/2012 05:35 PM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
>> On 04/27/2012 07:30 AM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
>>> So I realize it's still quite early, but are we planning on having
>>> the Boston Summit in Boston and over Columbus Day weekend?
>> Can we have in Toronto please?
> Are there any University locations or such we could make use of in Toronto?
> The Montreal one was pretty good and felt like it was a pretty good size for
> the bunch of us.

I was thinking, size permitting, we may even be able to do at Mozilla offices?
 Other than that, yes, there's university space.  York University is
definitely workable, thanks to Chris Tyler.  There's been FUDCon's there.  But
University of Toronto is possible too, and that's downtown.

behdad
(currently hanging out with Lucas, Chris Lord, JP, and others in the Mozilla
Office)

> - Andreas
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Re: Boston Summit?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 04/27/2012 02:18 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> On 04/27/2012 12:25 PM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> 
>> I was thinking, size permitting, we may even be able to do at Mozilla 
>> offices?
> 
> What were you thinking about the date? Is Columbus Day weekend ideal,
> inconvenient, or irrelevant?

Eventually that's the board's call.  Personally, I can help for any time
before mid October, but late October is Unicode Conference time for me.

behdad

> --joanie
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Re: Brian Cameron - Stepping down from the board

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 05/22/2012 09:53 PM, Luis Villa wrote:
> Brian-
> Thanks for your selfless service the past few years. Your dedication,
> including to some of the board's most thankless tasks, has been
> admirable and will be very difficult for the board to replace.

I want to second that.  Having been on the board for a few terms with Brian, I
too fully appreciate all the leadership he has shown over the years lifting
where no one else wanted to.

behdad

> Luis
> 
> On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 6:15 PM, Brian Cameron  
> wrote:
>>
>> Friends in the GNOME community:
>>
>> After serving 4 terms on The GNOME Foundation board of directors, I will
>> be stepping down at the end of this term.
>>
>> I would like to thank everyone in the community who has supported me
>> and allowed me to represent them on this board.  It has been a
>> profoundly rewarding and truly inspirational experience to help The
>> GNOME Foundation and GNOME community to grow.
>>
>> The years that I have served on the board have been exciting and
>> productive times.  I am proud to have served as president and secretary;
>> to have been involved with the development, release and celebration
>> surrounding the GNOME 3 release; and to have helped with the
>> development of successful GNOME programs like the Outreach Program for
>> Women.  In my time on the board, I have witnessed so much growth within
>> the community.  Since then, the GNOME Foundation has hired two executive
>> directors, started having successful annual summits in Asia, and has
>> more than doubled the number of hackfests held each year.  Just to
>> mention a few highlights.
>>
>> My stepping down should not be viewed as me becoming less involved
>> with GNOME.  I plan to continue working on GNOME for Oracle and expect
>> that I will continue helping the GNOME Foundation and community in
>> many ways.  I mostly feel that it is just time for me to step down to
>> reclaim some of my life back.  4.5 years (including one 18-month term
>> in 2008-2009) is a long time to serve on The GNOME Foundation board of
>> directors.  I believe that only Jonathan Blandford served as a board
>> member for a longer period of time (5 years).
>>
>> With the two most senior board members (Germán and myself) both
>> stepping down at the end of this term, it is especially important for
>> passionate people to serve the community.  So I again encourage people
>> who are considering to run for the board to step forward.  It is a great
>> way to increase one's involvement with GNOME and free software and to
>> help make sure that GNOME continues to rock.
>>
>> Brian
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Re: Facilitating the Integration of Free Software into Academic Courses (was Re: Questions for the board election candidates)

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 05/24/2012 06:49 PM, Joanmarie Diggs wrote:
> * They are not familiar with -- and thus not comfortable teaching --
>   all the tools we use.
> * They want certainty in terms of assignments and projects.
> * They want predictability with respect to a schedule.
> * They want a curriculum they can follow.
> * They do not want to be pioneers.
> 
> BUT, they seem to truly dig the idea other than that.

FWIW, Software Carpentry is one of the more successful experiment I've seen in
the "Free Software meets Academic Courses" experiments.  Thought I share the 
link:

  http://software-carpentry.org/

behdad
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Re: Facilitating the Integration of Free Software into Academic Courses (was Re: Questions for the board election candidates)

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 05/24/2012 06:59 PM, Luis Villa wrote:
>>
>> FWIW, Software Carpentry is one of the more successful experiment I've seen 
>> in
>> the "Free Software meets Academic Courses" experiments.  Thought I share the 
>> link:
>>
>>  http://software-carpentry.org/
> 
> Seneca College's collaboration with Mozilla has also, by all accounts,
> been a raging success:
> 
> http://zenit.senecac.on.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Right.  In fact, it seems like Mozilla Foundation is the place to go...  Greg
Wilson (Software Carpentry's lead) works from the Toronto Mozilla offices...

This one too:

http://www.thestar.com/business/article/1116533--girls-only-code-writing-camp-hits-toronto


behdad
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Re: GNOME Board of Directors Elections 2012 - Voting Instructions sent

[Behdad Esfahbod]

After entering my creds I get:

"""
2012 Spring Board of Directors Election
The election is not properly set up.

If you don't understand the error, you should probably contact the Membership
and Elections Committee, which can be reached at electi...@gnome.org.
"""

On 05/27/2012 04:48 PM, Tobias Mueller wrote:
> 
> Dear Foundation Members,
> 
> we have just sent the ballots to the registered email addresses of the 
> electorate.
> 
> If you have not received your voting instructions, have a look on the list of 
> eligible voters on
>  and check the email account 
> that is associated with you.
> Also check the SPAM folder.
> 
> In case you are not on the list of eligible voters but think you should be, 
> write us an email (see below).
> 
> If you have any questions, do not hesitate to ask them at
> membership-commit...@gnome.org or electi...@gnome.org
> 
> Happy Voting,
>   Tobias Mueller
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Re: GNOME Foundation Board Elections Spring 2012 - Preliminary Results

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 06/11/2012 08:56 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:

> First, congratulations to all the new Board members, and many thanks to
> all the candidates that didn't make the cut.

Nice list.  Congrats new board, and everyone else who ran.

> Reading the results[1], I saw in round 3:
> "Candidate Bastien Nocera was chosen by breaking the tie randomly."
> 
> How was this done randomly? What would the results have been if
> Emmanuele was selected as the tie-breaker instead?

It wouldn't have made any difference in this case at all.  In fact, from what
I understand it can never make any difference when breaking ties choosing a
winner.  It *does*, however, when breaking ties eliminating candidates.  See
this short paper for an overview of how it can matter (and why not use
randomness to break ties!):

  http://www.votingmatters.org.uk/ISSUE18/I18P6.PDF

Cheers,
behdad



> Cheers
> 
> [1]: http://vote.gnome.org/results.php?election_id=17
> 
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Re: Changes to the GNOME Foundation Bylaws from 2002

[Behdad Esfahbod]

I think Tobias's message missed out some context, so I'll try to fill in from
what I've been hearing as a foundation member.  Note that I'm not on the board
right now and have not been for over two years, and this is my personal
understanding of the situation.

So, I *think* Tobias is not proposing any significant changes to the bylaws.
He's proposing to change the canonical source of the bylaws to the
ReStructured-Text document that he sent, which includes all the amendments to
the original bylaws and minor modifications to adapt to the new format.  See:

 http://people.gnome.org/~tobiasmue/bylaws2012/bylaws-2002-2012.diff

One comment below:

On 10/01/2012 10:00 PM, Germán Póo-Caamaño wrote:
> 
> I wonder what is the rationale behind the following change:
> 
> @@ -458,7 +522,7 @@
>  Election and Term of Office of Directors 
>  -
>  
> -1.  Each of the directors shall hold office for one (1) year.
> +1.  Each of the directors shall hold office for one (1) year, or a
> period of up to two (2) years as determined by the Board and announced
> prior to an election being called.

Back in the days, Board terms were aligned to calendar years.  Ie. a new board
was running January to December.  Around 2008ish(?) board decided that it
would be much easier if a new board could take sit at GUADEC instead.  So we
wanted to change the term of one board to shift the phase.  This was against
the bylaws and needed an amendment.  Our lawyers (James Vasile?) recommended
that while changing the bylaws, we change it in a way that would accommodate
similar changes in the future.  Hence the wording that you see.  This is not
new.  This was voted on IIRC and approved, and used, years ago.

behdad
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Re: Changes to the GNOME Foundation Bylaws from 2002

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 10/02/2012 01:16 AM, Chris Leonard wrote:
> Posting and announcing a diff on bugzilla, waiting about two weeks for
> comment (only a few on the ticket), then asking to move forward.  I am
> not sure I see the procedural issue, what specifically should have
> been done differently?  I'm new here, so I am curious.

It's just missing context.  Would have helped if Tobi's mail included a
reference to his earlier message:

  https://mail.gnome.org/archives/foundation-list/2012-August/msg00047.html

b
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Re: A few observations about GIMPNET

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 12-10-15 05:23 AM, Andrea Veri wrote:
> I said *many* people gave their consensus about a possible move but I
> didn't see a *single* mail saying we should stay on GIMPNET for the X,
> Y, Z reason.

Sure, many of us avoid replying "+1" to something that someone else has
already said very well.  In this case, to ebassi's messages for example.
Remember, in many discussions there may be a silent majority and a vocal
minority.  That definitely was the case when we were discussing git vs bzr.  A
survey helped there.  For this discussion, I don't see what major benefit this
will have to the project, but on the downside: it's a lot of work, dilutes
identity, and we would lose some if not all of our sense of community.

behdad
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Re: A few observations about GIMPNET

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 12-10-15 06:24 AM, Frederic Peters wrote:
> 
>> > In the past I've joined the #opers channel multiple times asking why
>> > there was no intention to improve the GIMPNET network but I alwais
>> > received no answer and as of today I still don't know the real reason
>> > behind that decision.
> On the opposite I've always had a fast and helpful reaction time on
> #opers, while I joined #freenode last week to ask for my seemingly
> unused nick to be dropped from NickServ, so I could claim it for
> myself, and left after non-helpful comments.

Good point.  Reminds me that I lost my #harfbuzz channel a while ago and my
multiple attempts to reclaim it has been unsuccessful.  Freenode seems to be
seriously understaffed (see for example [1]).  Definitely would be a
regression in terms of support.

behdad

[1] http://freenode.net/group_registration.shtml
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Re: Announcing GUADEC 2013 and 2014

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 12-11-21 03:32 PM, Karen Sandler wrote:
> 
> During the bidding process, the GNOME Foundation received a second
> outstanding proposal. As a result, the Board of Directors is also pleased
> to announce that GUADEC 2014 will be held in Strasbourg, France. Selecting
> the venue earlier will give the Strasbourg local team more time to prepare
> the conference, which has been asked for by previous organizing teams.

This I think is a great idea.  Congrats to both team, and the directors!

Cheers,
behdad


> 
> Have a good holiday to those who celebrate it!
> best,
> Karen
> 
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Re: GNOME on Github - Tomboy

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 13-01-01 05:32 PM, Alberto Ruiz wrote:
> The URL is: http://github.com/GNOME
> 
> And I am the owner, I've been working with the github guys to try to come up
> with self-hosted mirror that does not need me or anyone running scripts, it
> was meant to be a surprise but the github guys have been really busy lately.

+1.  Please also do for freedesktop.org repos!


> 
> 2013/1/1 Andre Klapper mailto:ak...@gmx.net>>
> 
> On Tue, 2013-01-01 at 16:27 -0600, Jared Jennings wrote:
> > Today I found that GNOME is an organization on Github with several
> > repp's.
> 
> What's the URL?
> 
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper  |  ak...@gmx.net 
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: Reaching out to Amazon for credit?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 13-01-06 08:49 AM, Alex Launi wrote:
> 
> Indeed, we are discussing using proprietary Amazon services here, and yet you
> chose to attack Ubuntu. Please at least keep your zeal relevant.

What's a proprietary service?

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Re: Setting moderation bit for members who consistently hijack topics

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Ok everyone.  Now that both sides had a chance to attack each other and defend
themselves, and as Richard constructively agreed to try to remember to change
subject lines in the future, can we please put an end to this and neighboring
threads?  I mean, don't you all have code to write?

Cheers,
behdad


On 13-01-10 02:39 PM, Richard Stallman wrote:
> Awaiting now the potential "GMail was mentioned, Google is bad!" reply.
> 
> You seem to be attacking me for things you imagine I might say.
> At least it makes your bias clear.
> 
> And since you just raised the issue of GMail, shouldn't you have
> changed the Subject field?  Remember, the thread you're posting in
> started with the accusation that I "hijacked a topic" by posting
> a single sentence about Ubuntu without changing the Subject field.
> If that makes me a nasty topic hijacker, are you one also?
> 
> Perhaps neither of us deserves that accusation.
> 
> About GMail I have nothing to say.
> 

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Re: "Boston" Summit 2013?

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 13-04-30 08:58 PM, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
> 
> We are a quirky bunch of people. :-)  We're almost like Bostonians except
> maybe a little more weirder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBt4HlcDUDw

?

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Re: Announcing GNOME's official GitHub mirror

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 13-08-15 07:55 AM, Alexandre Franke wrote:
> Ok, I probably misphrased that since English is not my native
> language. What I meant is that my code being mirrored is not something
> I want to push for, it's not something I consider as needed. That was
> an explanation for the fact that I won't be contributing to a
> gitorious mirror. That didn't mean that having the github mirror is a
> non-issue to me.

Good old love/hate sharing complex that comes with GPL thinking...

More seriously, if you can't articulate the "issue" you have with it, please
refrain from generating additional work for the sysadmin team.  "Makes me feel
fuzzy in my stomach" doesn't can't.

My 0.02CAD
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Re: GUADEC videos are available only with nonfree codecs

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 13-08-15 06:39 AM, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
> The most important part of the above message is that GUADEC videos are
> actually available!

Indeed.  As one who couldn't attend GUADEC this year I also want to thank the
team to make them available and so fast!  I've watched about ten of the talks
since this morning and am so glad that I could do.

Cheers,
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Re: You logo

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 15-04-03 04:03 AM, Richard Stallman wrote:
>   > We will use the distribution Fedora 20 with the environment Gnome 3.12, as
>   > it is already tested and I like that everything is working as it should.
> 
> Fedora is a GNU/Linux distribution,

I thought it's a GNU/Linux/xorg/texmf/PHP/Perl/Python/HarfBuzz/... distribution.
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Re: You logo

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 15-04-03 12:49 PM, Konstantin Falin wrote:
> all right. i got it. I do not know the terminology. try to fix this gap. I'm 
> sorry for taking the time to talk with me.

Sorry Konstantin.  This was not to pick on you.  I apologize if it sounded
that way.

behdad

>> 3 апр. 2015 г., в 19:40, Behdad Esfahbod  
>> написал(а):
>>
>> On 15-04-03 04:03 AM, Richard Stallman wrote:
>>>> We will use the distribution Fedora 20 with the environment Gnome 3.12, as
>>>> it is already tested and I like that everything is working as it should.
>>>
>>> Fedora is a GNU/Linux distribution,
>>
>> I thought it's a GNU/Linux/xorg/texmf/PHP/Perl/Python/HarfBuzz/... 
>> distribution.
> 
> 
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Re: Affiliation change and stepping down

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 15-11-03 03:30 AM, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
> On 10/28/2015 09:22 AM, Tobias Mueller wrote:
> 
>> I take that as a "yes" to the question asked "Does the Board intend to
>> follow a different strategy than to follow the membership's opinion
>> expressed in the election results".
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong, there.
> 
> Since this also came up in a blog post of yours the other day.
> 
> If I recall correctly, it's not a rule for the board to pick someone based on
> election results. It did work like that when Jorge Castro replaced Lucas Rocha
> in 2009.
> However, the very same year Paul Cutler replaced Behdad Esfahbod, even though
> Paul never ran for those elections.

That's correct, but it also was before STV voting was implemented, so it's not
exactly apples to aplles.

> I have no idea who they're picking, but trust the board to select a good
> candidate to fill the vacant seat.
> 
> https://wiki.gnome.org/FoundationBoard/History
> https://vote.gnome.org/
> - Andreas
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Re: Affiliation change and stepping down

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On 15-11-05 10:08 AM, Benjamin Berg wrote:
> Actually, the way I read section 8.2.4 combined with 8.4.1 right now it
> seems perfectly sane to argue that Christian could have finished his
> term in office despite the change of affiliation.

Would the board and Christian consider doing this, and also establish
precedent that in the future, only affiliation at the time of candidacy is
relevant to the 40% rule?

b
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Re: Yorba Foundation looking to pass on copyrights

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Hi Adam,

Thanks for Yorba.

It occurs to me that while GNOME Foundation does not currently own any
copyright, there is no reason why it can't accept a donation such as this.

behdad
On Mar 24, 2016 6:41 PM, "Adam Dingle"  wrote:

> I think an existing free software organization feels like the best home
> for these copyrights.  The organizations that others have mentioned here
> are great leads - I will be in touch with some of them soon.  If none of
> those pan out, I may repost asking if any individual people would be
> interested.  thanks -
>
> adam
>
> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Daniel Espinosa  wrote:
>
> Should be an organization or individuals can step up too?
> El mar. 24, 2016 3:14 PM, "Josh Triplett" 
> escribió:
>
>> On Thu, Mar 24, 2016 at 04:55:49PM -0400, Adam Dingle wrote:
>> > As some of you know, I founded Yorba, a free software non-profit based
>> in
>> > San Francisco that was active from 2009-2015 and developed a few popular
>> > programs for GNOME including the Shotwell photo manager and the Geary
>> email
>> > client, both of which now live in GNOME git.  These programs are
>> copyrighted
>> > by Yorba and a few external contributors and are licensed under the
>> LGPL.
>> >
>> > Yorba has run out of funding and is winding down - in fact nobody has
>> worked
>> > there since around April 2015.  We now need to shut down the foundation
>> > (which is a California non-profit corporation), but legally we can't do
>> so
>> > while it still holds any assets including the copyrights on its
>> software,
>> > which are considered intellectual property.
>> >
>> > We'd love to find some other free software organization that we can
>> pass our
>> > copyrights on to.  We would sell them for a nominal fee.  In theory the
>> > copyright recipient could defend the LGPL licensing of these programs if
>> > necessary (though I think the likelihood of such a necessity is low).
>> >
>> > My understanding is that GNOME itself does not hold copyrights.  Is
>> anyone
>> > aware of any other free software organization that might be willing and
>> able
>> > to receive our copyrights?  Thanks -
>>
>> You might consider the Free Software Foundation (FSF), Software in the
>> Public
>> Interest (SPI), or the Software Freedom Conservancy (SFC).
>>
>> - Josh Triplett
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Re: Really professional GNOME videos

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Mar 28, 2016 9:20 AM, "Michael Catanzaro"  wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2016-03-27 at 07:53 +, Florian Müllner wrote:
> > Distributions appear in the video in the order of when 3.20 is
> > expected to
> > be included in the distribution.
>
> It's hard to believe that's what's intended. If so, it's very wrong.
> The order depicted in the video is:
>
> Arch -> Debian -> Fedora -> openSUSE
>
> which is correct under no interpretation I can think of.

Alphabetic.

> How could
> Debian possibly be depicted prior to Fedora? If we are counting stable
> distros, then Debian should be towards the end of the list, after even
> Ubuntu. Same for openSUSE:
>
> Arch (April) -> Fedora (June) -> (Ubuntu, October) -> openSUSE?
> (November?) -> Debian (2017) -> openSUSE? (November 2017?)
>
> I do not know where openSUSE goes in relation to Debian, because they
> have the new enterprise base thing going on, and I am not sure what
> their GNOME plans are for the next release. If they release in November
> with GNOME 3.20, then they belong in front of Debian; if they release
> with 3.18 or perhaps 3.16 again, then they belong behind Debian.
>
> Now, if we are counting unstable distros (which I do not think we
> should do), then the order would be:
>
> Fedora rawhide (immediate) -> Arch Gnome-Unstable (already has it) ->
> openSUSE Tumbleweed (probably early April) -> Debian sid (probably this
> spring) -> Ubuntu (probably this summer)
>
> I don't see any way that Arch -> Debian -> Fedora -> openSUSE could
> possibly be interpreted as the correct order, if that graphic is really
> intended to signify the real order.
>
> Michael
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Re: Certification for GNOME apps

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Alan Cox wrote:

> On Mer, 2005-07-13 at 21:04, Jonathan Blandford wrote:
> > The first two seem like no-brainers, but what are you thinking of
> > 'harming the name of GNOME'?  Is a clause requiring acceptable levels of
> > privacy sufficient?  Do you have other, concrete concerns here?
>
> I guess the extreme example might be "What do you do if someone comes to
> you with a HIG compliant, gtk+ using, accessible, i18n translated 'Bomb
> the New York Subway' game" [hello MI5]
>
> There are things you want a reason never to be associated with.

Or one day we may want to refuse certification from companies
that support the other operating system :D.

Is the foundation going to certify apps or are companies allowed
to evaluate and certify their own apps?  If the former, should
there be any fee for getting GNOME certified?


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Re: Certification for GNOME apps

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Jonathan Blandford wrote:

> Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > On Thu, 14 Jul 2005, Alan Cox wrote:
> >
> > > On Mer, 2005-07-13 at 21:04, Jonathan Blandford wrote:
> > > > The first two seem like no-brainers, but what are you thinking of
> > > > 'harming the name of GNOME'?  Is a clause requiring acceptable levels of
> > > > privacy sufficient?  Do you have other, concrete concerns here?
> > >
> > > I guess the extreme example might be "What do you do if someone comes to
> > > you with a HIG compliant, gtk+ using, accessible, i18n translated 'Bomb
> > > the New York Subway' game" [hello MI5]
> > >
> > > There are things you want a reason never to be associated with.
> >
> > Or one day we may want to refuse certification from companies
> > that support the other operating system :D.
> >
> > Is the foundation going to certify apps or are companies allowed
> > to evaluate and certify their own apps?  If the former, should
> > there be any fee for getting GNOME certified?
>
> To make it more clear, the intention is to make this a
> self-certification system.  We (GNOME) don't really want to get into the
> business of certifying at the moment, and we should make it clear that
> the products are certified aren't inherently endorsed by GNOME at all.

Then I don't see how Alan's point can be applied.  Someone with a
Bomb... game should be free to label "GNOME certified" if it
happens to satisfy the technical aspects.  And it should be clear
that it's a self-certificate.  Maybe it should not be called a
certificate after all.  "GNOME Friendly" may be a better term.

> Thanks,
> -Jonathan

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Re: GNOME trademark guidelines and user group agreement

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, David Neary wrote:

> Let's say that it was a mistake, or that distributing the foot under the
> GPL is incompatible with defending it as a trademark - what remedy do
> you think we should consider?

Seems like that's what redhat does these days: releasing their
product which is Free Software, but you cannot redistribute due
to trademarks.  Don't flame me for what I just said, it's here:

  http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/30/esr_interview.html


behdad

> Cheers,
> Dave.
>
> Alan Cox wrote:
> >>That's what it says. I believe that we are going to handle logo
> >>modifications on a case-by-case basis. Please let us know if you want to
> >>use a modified logo, and as long as it's a reasonable usage, there will
> >>be no problem.
> >
> >
> > The logo has repeatedly been supplied as part of official GNOME
> > distribution products labelled as GPL and when this has been pointed out
> > the board has neither replied nor taken action to correct or indicate
> > this was a mistake.
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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Re: GNOME trademark guidelines and user group agreement

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005, Elijah Newren wrote:

> On 9/9/05, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, David Neary wrote:
> >
> > > Let's say that it was a mistake, or that distributing the foot under the
> > > GPL is incompatible with defending it as a trademark - what remedy do
> > > you think we should consider?
> >
> > Seems like that's what redhat does these days: releasing their
> > product which is Free Software, but you cannot redistribute due
> > to trademarks.  Don't flame me for what I just said, it's here:
> >
> >   http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/06/30/esr_interview.html
>
> You can redistribute the source code for Red Hat's RHEL offerings
> and/or binaries you compile from it, IF you remove Red Hat's
> trademarks first (which yes, means it isn't RHEL any more, but it's
> close enough for many); see http://www.centos.org/ and others.

Indeed.  But the article discusses how magazines cannot
distribute RHEL.  Also, from the pre-Fedora days, there has been
a distribution called Pink Tie which was exactly Red Hat Linux
with trademarks removed and renamed.

Funnier is that you can get the source code for Fedora Core and
remove that silly End User License Agreement, and you have not
violated any laws...


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Re: Petition for referendum

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Just want to note than adding yourself to the wiki doesn't
necessarily mean you are in favour of a reduced board size, but
that you are in favour of the issue being discussed and voted.

behdad


On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Christian Fredrik Kalager Schaller wrote:

> I added myself to the Wiki as being in favour of a reduced board size.
>
> It did strike me today however that we in addition to voting on reducing
> the board also vote about adding to our bylaws a way for the board
> itself to change its size. I mean it isn't really realistic for anyone
> except those who is/have been on the board to understand and have an
> informed opinion on what the ideal size would be for the board.
>
> On the other hand I realize that this is a theoretically abusable power
> so maybe we should make it so that that the size change first have to be
> proposed by one board, then confirmed by a second board (after next
> election) to take effect on how many are to be elected for the third
> board?
>
> Would mean changing the size of the board would take up to two years,
> but if there is a critical need to change the size then of course taking
> the issue to a general vote again is an option.
>
> Due to this having been a multiyear board topic I do propose that we
> don't punt the decision on board size for such a bylaws change, but keep
> it as part of the referendum.
>
> Christian
>
>
> On Fri, 2005-09-30 at 15:37 +0200, Dave Neary wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Daniel Veillard a écrit :
> > >   working *around* the board: with all due respect What The Fuck are you
> > > talking about.
> >
> > I love it when people precede things like that with "with all due
> > respect". :-)
> >
> > > How did the Board block you from getting anywhere ?  The
> > > board stalled on some issues because some items where dropped by lack
> > > of time or something, it was NEVER that the board refused to do something
> > > by being lazy, there is 2 items the board refused to follow you in
> > > blindly.
> >
> > Did I say anyone was lazy?
> >
> > And it's not a case of blindly following. It's about issues, when they
> > arise, reaching a resolution quickly. That resolution can be "no, not on
> > your life", or it can be "yes, go ahead".
> >
> > "Why don't you ask around and get back to us" is not a resolution.
> >
> > > Not following blindly the opinion of excited young people is not
> > > always just being stupid or stalled, especially when those radical changes
> > > are potentially extremely risky.
> >
> > The proposed change is neither radical nor risky. The biggest risk is
> > that the change sucks, doesn't work, everyone realises it, and the new
> > board reverts to the current situation in 6 months.
> >
> > Also, the board wasn't discussing *making* the change. We were talking
> > about *proposing to the foundation that they vote on the change*. The
> > distinction is important. Proposing the referendum is not risky at all.
> >
> > > So I think I am rightly pissed off at your
> > > two last posts at this point, public mischaracterization based on one's
> > > biased viewpoint of a situation is not proper in my opinion.
> >
> > Since I'm saying that the board, as it is, doesn't work well, and that
> > changes are made, it's not surprising that some people's feathers get
> > ruffled. But in any objective analysis of the foundation, it's obvious
> > that our governing structures aren't marching to the same beat as our
> > community, and that's a problem.
> >
> > There are a lot more radical things I'd love to see happen in the
> > foundation, this is almost the smallest of them.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Dave.
> >
>
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>
>

--behdad
http://behdad.org/
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precandidacy: Behdad Esfahbod

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Just a quick note that I plan to send out candidacy mail later
this weekend.

Cheers,

--behdad
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"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
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Candidacy: Behdad Esfahbod

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Website: http://behdad.org/

Affiliation: Sharif FarsiWeb, Inc.
to change soon, but none of R, N, S, or any other GNOME company.


What I like to see the board doing in the coming term:

* Continue focusing on areas that are less fun than hacking, like keeping the
  website alive, marketing, etc.

* (More) Proactively looking for sponsors and other sources of income, to
  support the community.

* Commit to the 10x10 plan.  Support massive marketing plans to get the word
  out.  Stickers, free CDs, tshirts, getting the word to the LUGs, etc.  Like
  the Ubuntu guys are doing.

* Building a team-oriented community.  Ad hoc teams are good, but documented
  teams make it easier for newcomers to join in.  Both long-term teams like
  current release-team and membership committee, and short-term teams to solve
  an specific problem at hand.  Look at the Ubuntu launchpad for example.

* Make each foundation member a voice of GNOME.  Lead activities in the
  community, making a more socially active membership.  Support programs like
  bug-fixer of the month, documenter of the month, etc, again, with real
  prizes sent out.


Who I am:

I've been a member of GNOME foundation since 2001, but never called myself a
GNOME developer until recently, when I found myself well inside, and I believe
I am here to stay.  I started as a hacker, but found a great family that is
much more valuable than the sum of the parts.  So I'm trying to get more
involved in other aspects of the project.

I am a Fedora user and have been following the Fedora marketing team since it
was formed.  Like everybody else, I was observing how Ubuntu rose, and
admired that.  Earlier this month I had the opportunity to attend the Ubuntu
Below Zero conference.  Unfortunately I couldn't make it to GUADEC so far. :(

I am an internationalization expert in Free Software, and GNOME specifically.
I hack on and co-maintain Pango, gucharmap, and dasher.  I have been an active
member of the Persian, Arabic, and Hebrew free software communities via email,
and recently discovered the Toronto community as well.  I have been
evangelizing the GNU and GNOME projects since 2000.

I'm from Iran, moved to Canada in 2003.


--Behdad Esfahbod
  November 14, 2005
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Re: Foundation Elections - Voting systematically

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005, Alan Horkan wrote:

> Given this is a technical audience I'm sure you all understand the logic
> of how the voting system works but I remind you to consider carefully
> the value of your votes.

Maybe it's time to switch to STV [1].  I will bring that up when
next board is in place.


[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Transferable_Vote

--behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
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Re: Advisory referendum, not decision [Was: Beginning of the 2005 GNOME Foundation elections]

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005, David Neary wrote:

> > Candidacies must be announced prior to November 14, 2005 or
> > thereabouts (which has already passed). Currently, I count 8 nominees
> > (Federico, Christian, Jonathan, Bastien, Vincent, Behdad, Quim,
> > David).
>
> I count 12: Jeff, Federico, Behdad, German, Christian, Vincent, Luis,
> Jonathan, Bastien, Anne, Quim, Dave (me)

Just to make it clear, the confusion came from the fact that some
didn't send their statement to foundation-announce, only
foundation-list :).


Hoping somebody uses the extra 24 hours,

--behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
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Re: Questions to answer

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 1) Why are you running for Board of Directors? What will you do more or
> better than previous years Boards have done?

Because I'm spending quite a lot of time on GNOME, and I think I
can help at the board.  I'm not sure how I can perform better
than previous boards, since I've never been in the board before,
but I think we all learn from past experiences of the board, as
long as the experiences are shared with us.

> 2) How familiar are you with the day-to-day happenings of GNOME?  How much
> do you follow and participate in the main GNOME mailing lists?

Very much.  I read Planet GNOME regulartly.  I'm on a bunch of
mailing lists, the foundation ones, GUADEC, marketing, Gtk+
lists, ddl, gnome-hackers, i18n, and a few more.  I'm on IRC for
hours every day, and have a lot of bugzilla activity.  I'm
maintaining Pango and gucharmap these days, and also help with
dasher.  I'm also on the new performance team.


> 3) What sources of funds do you as a candiate try do establish? And what
> will you spend it on? Not counting revenue from the shop and Friends of
> GNOME. Think more like the recent move by Mozilla or a subscription based
> bounty system.
> (olafura from gnomedesktop.org)

I will work towards getting more companies on the advisory board.
I also think the Friends of GNOME has more potential.  I like to
see it have an option for recurring donations, like FSF does.  I
also like the idea of a robust bounty system, more because of the
potential for ultra cool features that we can get through it,
rather than the funds.


> 4) Gnome is mostly a european and US based project, but seems to have
> some following in Latin America and India. How will you as a candidate
> grow the contribution base, especially in Asia, Africa and South America?
> (olafura from gnomedesktop.org)
> Or in general what would you do to increase community participation in the
> GNOME community and GNOME elections?

I have a vague remote hand in spreading GNOME in Iran, but other
than that, I'm also trying to get more voice for GNOME in Canada.
As for community size, I think the GNOME Love is in the right
direction, although they can use some funding.  About the
Foundation size and elections, I don't think getting a bigger
foundation is necessarily a good idea.  If with the current 350
members, only half of them vote for the referendum, I'm not sure
expanding to 700 makes 350 vote.  In other words, I believe the
foundation already has got most of the people that care about the
project, and that's enough.

Another issue is whether we want to expand the role of the
Foundation and the Board in turn.  That may be a good idea, to
make Foundation more verbose, more of a leader of the project,
instead of the current state.  So far the project has been mostly
run by individual teams and maintainers of packages, and a
light-weight release-team.  If we want to get really Big(TM), I
think a stronger more involved Foundation helps.  By that, I mean
converting all the "GNOME Project did ..." to "GNOME Foundation
did ..." in the news.  Making the foundation (and the board)
proactively monitor all areas of the project, identify problems,
and make a plan to fix the problem.  The recent moves to contract
a documentation writer and some of the previous bounty programs
have been in that direction already.  I like to see that
continued.


> 5) The board meets for one hour every two weeks to discuss a handful of
> issues.  Thus, it is very important that the board can very quickly and
> concisely discuss each topic and come to consensus on each item for
> discussion. Are you good at working with others, who sometimes have very
> differing opinions than you do, to reach consensus and agree on actions?
> How flexible is your time; can you dedicate extra time one week and
> less the next?

Yes I can.  I'm already spending a lot of time with GNOME.  It's
a matter of changing priorities.

> 6) Do you consider yourself diplomatic?  Would you make a good
> representative for the GNOME Foundation to the Membership, media, public,
> and organizations and corporations the GNOME Foundation works with?

Yes.


Now I like this question.  If you are diplomatic and say Yes,
fine.  If you are not and say No, fine again.  If you are and say
No, you have just proved that you are not.  If you are not and
say Yes, you have just proved that you are. :)



> 7) What do you see as current threats to the future of a complete Free
> Software desktop? And what would you like the GNOME Foundation to be doing
> to address these issues?

The main threat I see is the software patents.  That's the way
Microsoft will come to the battle when we start to eat more of
their lunch.  I like to see the Foundation join efforts by other
Foundations and NGOs to work on this.  In particular, it should
have a firm stance on public matters, defending the obvious side,
instead of staying mute.


> 8) What one problem could you hope to solve this year?

Re: Questions to the candidates

[Behdad Esfahbod]

> > 1. How much time can you dedicate to the board each week?

I can spend a total of 5 hours easily.


> > 4. Explain how you expect to meet you goals.

If we manage to make the board more open, which seems to be
agreed as a most by almost all candidates, then I don't see the
baord work much different that other happenings in the project.
We set goals, discuss, find interested people, decide/delegate.
Like we are all already doing in other aspects of the project.


> > 6. Please assess GNOME:
> > a. What are its strengths

The healthy community, the freedom, the timely release process,
the usability/accessibility/internationalization/localization.


> > b. What are its weaknesses

Lack of decision-making power in the project as a whole.  Lack of
progress in areas that no individual cares enough to spend time
on.  So web pages may stay out of date for years, or the commits
list broken for months.


> > c. What are its opportunities

I see a lot of opportunities for GNOME on small devices, also in
educational and governmental institutaions.  They are of course
all known.  And there's also the long-term goal of taking over
the desktop market :).


> > d. What are its threats

Main treat I see is the software patents.


> > 7. Name the best album you purchased in the last year.

Dan Bern (Dan Bern):

  http://danbern.com/discography.html#danbern



--behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
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Re: Additional questions for the board candidates

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005, Philip Van Hoof wrote:

> First question:
>
> How important are desktop standards for you. How will you attempt to let
> the GNOME developers cooperate even more with the freedesktop.org
> movement? Or do you dislike that movement? In in general: What should
> GNOME "do" with fd.org?

I strongly support standards in general, and fd.o in particular.
But I also believe that if a standard is the right one, GNOME
developers will pick it up automatically.  No need to push that.
About what should GNOME do with fd.o, I guess fd.o is no one
other than GNOME, KDE, and a few others.  So basically GNOME is
partly fd.o.


> Second question:
>
> What will you do to further enhance cooperation with the KDE developers?
> Will you invite them to our conferences? Will you pay their travel
> expenses? Will you let them talk on GUADEC? Will you visit their
> conferences and will you do a talk about cooperation at their
> conferences? Or will you simply disregard them and think GNOME is
> superior yadiyada (in which case I wont vote for you, by the way)?

We are already cooperating with KDE developers in various
aspects.  I know I'm doing myself.  I will invite them to our
conferences, yes.  They are welcome to submit as many talk
proposals as they want, and I'm generally positive about
accepting them.  I do not follow KDE news personally, but now I
think maybe I should reald Planet KDE.  It's KDE that we can copy
from without any legal problems after all!


> Third question:
>
> In my opinion, GNOME lacks strong leadership that steers development
> choices and standards. We have no Linus Torvalds (oh I forget a lot
> important kernel developers of today, it's not the point -- I picked the
> most famous one and everybody knows this guy and understands his role as
> a kernel developer, right?).
>
> It's getting increasingly hard for a novice desktop developer to know
> which desktop standard will succeed and which will not. It's getting
> increasingly difficult to achieve getting things that will influence
> other components done. Amongst them are clipboard standards and
> infrastructure, configuration standards and infrastructure, desktop
> (presence) notification but also programming environments and languages
> like C#, Python and Java and the language bindings (which ones belong in
> the 'official' GNOME distribution -- for commercial software developers
> this is an extremely important question: Do we support .NET or we don't?
> Do we support Java or we don't? There's no clarity).
>
> And D-BUS is moving forward rapidly. This will introduce a lot new such
> standards. Even D-BUS itself is such a standard of which it hasn't been
> said that it's "the" IPC for a typical modern GNOME application. Or is
> it ORBit-2? D-COP? I guess nobody knows.
>
> Yet there's no real leadership telling the GNOME app developers what
> direction to go. And there's many questions and even more exciting new
> technologies being developed today. A very interesting such technology
> is Galago (desktop notification specification). There's many others (and
> I'm not going to list all of them just to please their developers). And
> it's growing rapidly in numbers.
>
> I can imagine companies that would like to target the GNOME desktop,
> while developing solutions for their customers, would like this type of
> leadership to happen. Yet I can imagine a lot Free Software GNOME
> developers dislike "any" form of "leadership". It's not a simple problem
> to solve. Will the GNOME Foundation fill this gap? Or will the GNOME
> Foundation create a solution? How will you, provided you become board
> member, address this. Or isn't this important enough for the Board to
> discuss? Or isn't it the focus of the Board?


Some of the issues you raise, like D-BUS, are making a healthy
progress in GNOME IMO.  It's a matter of time and resources
before we get it replace all our IPC.

Other ones, like the status of Mono in the project, is exactly
the kind of thing that the board needs to ensure is resolved.
Note that I said "the board needs to ensure is resolved", not
that "the board should resolve".  The FSF may be very helful in
resolving the legal issues, should we ask them.


> Fourth question (finally a non programmer question! :p):
>
> Because I can imagine it's going to be an important project for the
> GNOME desktop and infrastructure, how will you involve yourself in the
> One Laptop Per Child concept?

Yes, it's an important project for GNOME, and GNOME in general
benefits from this involvement in all aspects.  Other than all
the publicity that GNOME can gain from OLPC, I think getting our
software to run on a restricted environment like the green
machine is a huge improvement on our performance.  Without
becoming too technical, I like working on that direction.  As for
how to get myself involved, for now I'm trusting Jim Gettys as
GNOME's contact to the project.


--behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendme

Re: [Off Topic] Words to Avoid "Vendor" [was Re: Questions to answer]

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Alan Horkan wrote:

> > Does "ISV" stand for "Independent Software Vendor"?  If so, the term is
> > often misleading, because the most important developers of GNOME
> > applications--those developing free software--are mostly not vendors.
>
> The important point is the need for clear documentation making it easier
> for those who want to work with Gnome including businesses which self
> identify under the term ISV.  I'm sure the intention was not to exclude
> anyone.

And as an individual, I think that choice of word did fail.
Whenever I saw/read ISV in any context in GNOME, I thought of it
as issues concerning businesses only, not myself as a *user* of
the GNOME libraries, etc.  I'm sure I'm not the only one.  So the
concern is real IMO.

behdad
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Re: [Off Topic] Words to Avoid "Vendor" [was Re: Questions to answer]

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sun, 27 Nov 2005, Davyd Madeley wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2005 at 06:48:31PM -0700, Andreas J. Guelzow wrote:
>
> > > Businesses require more than an email client and a web browser, they
> > > require the highly vertical applications that enable them to carry
> > > out their business. These may be as simple as inventory control or
> > > as complex as an Australian law enabled, multi-client tax ledger.
> > >
> > > In the forseeable future, open-source developers are not going to
> > > write these applications, because they do not have the expertise or
> > > resources to develop applications of this magnitude. Thus, we need
> > > to encourage traditional vendors onto our platform.

So you are saying that in fact the "vendor" word has been used
with the purpose of directing vendors only.  Others have been
saying otherwise.

> > Not at all! We need to encourage traditional vendors to
> > become open-source developers.

>
> This is step 2. This comes right after vendors have learnt about the
> Freedom and started offering their product on the platform.
>
> First we must walk, gain market share, become relevant and be
> validated. Then we establish a new world order.

Not necessarily.  There's no reason why a vendor developing tax
software cannot release their software as Free Software.  They
still can sell their software, the same way Red Hat can sell its
software.  And they have the benefit of having hundreds pairs of
eyes reviewing their software for them.  Nothing really
different here.

> --d

--behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
-- Dan Bern, "New American Language"
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Re: Mentoring for GNOME in Google Summer of Code

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006, Clytie Siddall wrote:

> On 19/04/2006, at 3:06 AM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
>
> > As you probably know by now, GNOME will be participating in the
> > Google Summer of Code again this year.  For details about the
> > program visit:
>
> Behdad, is there any provision for students from the Southern
> Hemisphere? This opportunity doesn't arrive in their holidays, but in
> the busiest part of the educational year.

I know Google had this in mind when they started the program last
year, that's why their mailing list for the accepted students was
called Summer-Discuss-NH-2005 or something like that, but
apparently they were busy handling the Summer 2005 students until
a couple months ago, so they didn't do it this past year.  If
they manage to finish the program in time this time, I think they
may run one in the winter too, but of course I don't talk for
Google.


> My son is doing a computing degree, and I know he's interested, but
> he just doesn't have the time in the middle of the year.

Last year there were quite a few Aussies attending.  Well,
there's always time to add a programming project, should the pay
be good enough ;).


> I wrote to Google about this last year, but got no response.
>
> I'm wondering if an organization like Gnome could represent the
> interests of Southern Hemisphere participants in this.

I cannot think of a way that GNOME can help here.


> Do you think that would be a useful way to approach the situation?

I think contacting them again may be the best option.  Or better,
if you see any interested student, ask them to contact Google and
let them know they prefer a program run in their summer.

behdad
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Women's Summer Outreach Program 2006

[Behdad Esfahbod]

GNOME to Sponsor Female Developers in a Summer Outreach Program

BOSTON, Mass - June 13, 2006 - The GNOME Foundation is offering USD$9000
to female students in order to promote the participation of women in
GNOME-related development.

The money originates from GNOME's participation in the Google "Summer of
Code" program (code.google.com/soc/), for which GNOME developers will
mentor 20 students working throughout the northern summer on
GNOME-related projects. This year GNOME received 181 applications to
Google's program, yet none were from women. The GNOME Foundation has
therefore chosen to reinvest Google's contribution into a new program
designed to increase the participation of women in GNOME. The program
has no official relationship with Google.

"Free software prides itself on being open to anyone with a good idea,
yet less than 2% of free software developers are female. We, as a
community, need to be actively working to change this statistic, and
programs like this one are a much needed step in the right direction."
said Hanna Wallach, a GNOME developer who is involved in several
projects that encourage women to participate in free software
development.

The Women's Summer Outreach Program is currently accepting applications
from female students. Accepted students will receive a stipend of USD
$3000 over a two month period. A pool of project ideas is provided at
www.gnome.org/projects/wsop/, though original proposals are also
encouraged. Projects may either be related to GNOME directly, or
indirectly via projects such as Gstreamer and Abiword. Each student will
be assigned a mentor to provide guidance throughout the program.

Vincent Untz, member of the GNOME Foundation board and coordinator of
the GNOME team for Google's "Summer of Code" program, explained: "Many
women have the skills required to contribute to Free Software projects
like GNOME, but may not see an opportunity to start working with us. By
initiating this program, not only do we want to highlight the issue, but
we also hope that this opportunity will help more women to get involved
in the long term."

Applications should be submitted using the form at
www.gnome.org/projects/wsop/. More information about the application
process may be found at the same location.


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Re: Asking Reference for Alireza Kheirkhahan

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sat, 2006-07-08 at 11:43 -0400, Baris Cicek wrote:
> Dear Foundation List Members;  
> 
> An applicant with name Alireza Kheirkhahan has applied[1] for GNOME Foundation
> Membership, however references for his/her application did not reply our 
> e-mails. 
> 
> Is there anyone who can be reference for Alireza? In case of nobody give
> any reference for him/her we have to reject his/her application. 

I confirm that he's an active Persian GNOME translator, and has been
volunteering in this past GUADEC.  I support his application.

behdad


> The GNOME Foundation Membership Committee
> 
> [1] Related mail about his/her application:
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/membership-committee/2006-April/msg7.html
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Re: Membership Committee Mailing List Archives

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Mon, 2006-07-10 at 14:34 -0400, David Neary wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Baris Cicek wrote:
> > Today Behdad asked about why private list like membership-committee
> > mailing list is public. 
> > 
> > We're using this list for asking information about applications, and
> > even though vast majority of the responses are positive, there can be
> > negative ones as well. 
> > 
> > For that reason, it's not good to make them public which might affect
> > honest responses from reference people. My own opinion is to keep dialog
> > about applications to be private. But I would like to know if there're
> > some concerns related with decision. 
> > 
> > Any applicant whom his/her application is denied can easily ask the
> > reason, and we can show it. Even with private list, we can keep
> > transparency. 
> 
> I feel strongly that the membership list should be public. Applications,
> and the reasons for their rejection, should be visible to all.

I just find it awkward to have a private list with public archives.  By
"private", I assume subscription to the list is by not available to
public.  But on the other hand, AFAIU posting to the list is open to
public, and the archives are public.  So, by making subscription
private, you are just making one's like harder to follow the list: they
have to poll the archives, instead of receiving new mail to the list in
their mail box.


> The reference mails can perhaps go off-list, but honestly I can't think
> why that might happen - in general, if you're replying it's to give a
> good reference, and if the reference would be bad, you don't reply.

Others have already raised issues with this scheme.

> Cheers,
> Dave.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
-- Dan Bern, "New American Language"

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Re: Subversion migration recap (cut-off Friday July 14th)

[Behdad Esfahbod]

I have some concerns about how per-module repos are going to work:

1) How/when can we group modules into one repo? For example, it might
make sense to group glib, pango, and gtk+ into one repo.  But that makes
it harder to remember/guess the repo paths.

2) Even if we dictate one repo per module:

  - What are the regulations for creating new repos?  Any committer can
ask and granted a new repo in a matter of a few hours?

  - If not, or even if yes, I believe people will start adding new
modules into the repos they currently own.  For example, if I want to
create a pango-benchmark module, I definitely go with the existing pango
repo instead of asking for a new one, and that again defeats the
identity module-repo mapping.


Regards,
behdad






On Sun, 2006-07-09 at 07:36 -0400, Ross Golder wrote:
> Hi guys,
> 
> I hope you have all recovered from GUADEC. As you have all probably long
> forgotten by now, we are scheduled to migrate the GNOME CVS repository
> to Subversion next weekend. Friday night at 23:59UTC to be precise. That
> means that the migration will probably be under way this time next week.
> 
> Here's an update on the status of the main issues.
> 
> 
> Archive history issues
> --
> 
> Unfortunately, during it's lifetime the GNOME CVS server has suffered
> several accidental clock resets (to a point in 1997). The timestamps
> listed in some of the CVS ',v' files are not always correct and in
> chronological order. This led to some problems high-lighted by James
> Henstridge:
> 
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-infrastructure/2006-February/msg00059.html
> 
> Despite lengthy discussions with Michael Haggerty, the current
> maintainer of cvs2svn, and several patches attempting to work around the
> problem, it seems that it is unlikely that we'll be able to eliminate
> the problem entirely - only use the patches we've developed to alleviate
> the problem in the many cases. The most recent few mail exchanges on the
> subject are archived here:
> 
> http://cvs2svn.tigris.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=dev&by=date&from=2006-07-01&to=2006-07-31&first=1&count=4
> 
> At any rate, we will not be able to rely on the subversion archive to
> recreate historical versions. To a certain extent, we can't really rely
> on the CVS archive either, as various 'CVS surgery' operations will have
> taken place over the years, in addition to the clockskew problems.
> However, I will make sure the CVS archives stay on-line in
> read-only/anonymous mode indefinitely in order to keep that history
> publicly available as it was at the time of the cut-off.
> 
> The thing to remember is that this issue will only affect a small
> minority of the GNOME modules - the majority, esp newer modules, won't
> suffer this problem and you should still be able to retrieve reasonably
> faithful historical checkouts from either system in most cases.
> 
> 
> Migration order
> ---
> 
> One downside will be that to migrate the entire CVS repository is that
> we have a *lot* of history. Current indications are that - worse case
> scenario - it could take the best part of a month to complete.
> Obviously, lots of hackers aren't going to want to wait this long before
> they can continue making commits to their module. So this is how I'm
> thinking of determining the migration order.
> 
> We have three 'priority' lists, and then the rest. The first priority
> list will contain a list of any modules developers specifically request
> are treated as priority, as they expect to be working with them within
> hours/days of the migration cut-off (send your requests to me off the
> list now). The second priority list will contain a list of other modules
> we consider relatively urgent, such as the 'www.gnome.org' website in
> case we decide to change anything about of homepage. The third priority
> list is compiled from a list of the most active modules from the last
> year in activity order (compiled from a query on 'bonsai-svn' from a
> fairly recent test migration). Then, the whole list of modules is
> processed for any not handled above. This can be seen in the migration
> script 'create-svnrepos.sh', which is linked to and explained here:
> 
> http://live.gnome.org/Subversion
> 
> Obviously, at 23:59UTC the whole CVS archive will become read-only. As
> each CVS module is being migrated to a Subversion repository, it will be
> available read-only (for checkout and in viewcvs). When each module's
> subversion repository has been successfully migrated, the repository
> perms will reset so GNOME developers can proceed to make commits.
> 
> As each module gets migrated, an '.out' file will be generated
> containing the output of the cvs2svn run (for the curious). These can be
> quite big sometimes, so the last few lines (containing the migration
> statistics) will be directed into a '.tail' file and the whole output
> file is bzip2'ed down. You should be able to see this happening here for
> the running test mi

Re: Substituting "Linux" with "GNU/Linux" or "GNU"

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 15:44 -0400, Germán Poó Caamaño wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-10-21 at 18:01 +0200, Quim Gil wrote:
> > [...]
> > - In the very few cases where the operative systems need to be
> > enumerated, we recommend the use of the formula "GNU/Linux (commonly
> > called Linux)", that has already been used i.e. in the release notes.
> 
> If you refer 'operative system' as 'operating system', it has only
> one name: Linux.
> 
> The discussion was always about the whole system, not the name of the
> operating system.  Even, RMS said that.

This is not really clear.  Some mean the kernel when they say "operating
system" (eg. in academy), others mean a lot more than that.  Given what
is shipped with Windows and Mac OS X /operating systems/, one should
really contrast them to GNU, not Linux the kernel.

> Regards,
> 
-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
-- Dan Bern, "New American Language"

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Re: My interests in the GNOME Foundation

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2006-11-07 at 15:44 -0500, Vincent Untz wrote:
> Le mardi 07 novembre 2006, à 14:43, Quim Gil a écrit :
> > I would have resigned from the board back on September if my colleagues
> > would have requested it. I can resign now if you think it's appropriate.
> > As I told Dave last week, I will do whatever it's best. I just want to
> > defend my candidacy for the job like any other candidate.
> 
> FWIW, I don't think it's necessary that Quim resigns for now. Quim is
> doing a great job on the board, and it'd be a shame to lose him.

+1.  Particularly if the decision is going to be made by the new board.
I don't see any conflict.

> Vincent
> 
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Re: Research groups and the GNOME project

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 21:20 -0500, Federico Mena Quintero wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-11-13 at 16:44 +, Alvaro del Castillo wrote:
> 
> > Right now I am working in the University Rey Juan Carlos and we are
> > working hard researching how free software is developed.
> 
> By the way, I can vouch for the extreme jaw-dropping coolness of the
> work of Álvaro and his group.  Their research results have been *really*
> interesting!

Like Alan Horkan already mentioned, people (ie. developers) are losing
interest in filling in surveys or otherwise helping FOSS "research".  
Perhaps you can point us to the results that you have found interesting?

>   Federico
-- 
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"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
-- Dan Bern, "New American Language"

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Candidacy: Behdad Esfahbod

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Name: Behdad Esfahbod
Email: behdad gnome org
Affiliation: Red Hat, Inc.


Summary:

I run for the GNOME Foundation Board of Directors, because I care about
GNOME and I think the Board is very important.  I contribute to GNOME on
a daily basis, and the board is yet another area of the project I want
to challenge myself with.


Why:

GNOME is People.  So is the Board too.  I look at the board as a group
of trusted people caring about GNOME, elected to make sure the
Foundation, and GNOME consequently, performs as good as it can.  Most of
us prefer to be hacking instead.  I would have been happily watching the
elections if the current Board members were mostly running again.  But
seeing many "pass it on", I feel like I should offer my share.

The current board has done a marvelous job so far, and a lot of their
work is still going on.  As a board member I like to see we get the
revamped website online, and the online store become a reality.  I also
want to see the Foundation have better writers, possibly funded by the
foundation.  I want to help better documenting board's events and
procedures, and make sure incoming board email is processed as fast as
possible.  I like to help make a broader and more successful Summer of
Code experience next year (I will do regardless).  Last but not least, I
want to note that in light of the the powerful Ultra-20 machine I was
given by the board recently (thanks to Sun), I will be joining the
release-team if I'm not elected to serve on the board.


GNOME Background:

I've been around for a few years, but got seriously involved since last
summer.  I do a lot of coding and maintenance (although I like to do
more!).  I maintain Pango, vte, and gucharmap, co-maintain cairo, and
hack around glib and gtk+.

I also joined the Accounts Team this past January and helped keeping the
account request queue short for a couple of months.  I still do accounts
work from time to time, mostly when someone needs help on IRC.

During the summer, I helped the board manage, what I call, a successful
Google Summer of Code presence of GNOME.  I also mentored a SoC and a
Women Summer Outreach Program student.  Both finished their project
successfully.

I was in GUADEC 2006, running a couple of sessions, and Boston Summit
2006, coordinating the very successful Text Layout Summit.  I was a
candidate last year.  I have never been on the Board before.


behdad

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Re: Candidacy: Joachim Noreiko

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sun, 2006-11-19 at 16:39 -0500, Andy Tai wrote:
> 
> 
> On 11/16/06, Joachim Noreiko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Name: Joachim Noreiko
> 
> As a board member, I want to work to lower the
> barriers to entry that block potential GNOME
> contributors. I hope that my work on the website and
> documentation will play a part in that, but I also 
> think more can be done socially. Efforts such as GNOME
> Love and Patch Squad need more help, for example.
> 
> I want to make GNOME more coherent. I'd like to see
> GNOME Certification come about, and that will entail 
> bringing the HIG up to date. I'd like to see more
> GNOME marketing efforts, which will mean more planning
> of our release right from the start of the development
> cycle.


> You seem to contradict yourself.  You want lower the bar of entry but
> at the same time impose more bureaucratic work such as a certification
> scheme? 

Can't speak for Joachim, but I don't see any contradiction here.
Lowering the bar of entry mostly deals with individuals, where
certification involves projects, and is volunteerly, from my
understanding.

  http://live.gnome.org/GnomeCertification

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Commandment Three says Do Not Kill, Amendment Two says Blood Will Spill"
-- Dan Bern, "New American Language"

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Re: Concerns about the election process

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sun, 2006-11-26 at 17:30 -0500, Gabriel Burt wrote:
> On Sat, 2006-11-25 at 21:40 -0500, Ryan Lortie wrote:
> > As a voter, how do I know that my "token" isn't just a deterministic
> > hash of my choices?  The people running the election could then easily
> > just publish my choices along with this token once for every person who
> > chose the same way that I did.
> 
> It was my understanding (and it could certainly be wrong) that the
> elections committee was going to publish the tokens and choices in
> list form.  If that is what they do, then checking for duplicate
> tokens is trivial.  If everybody verifies their vote is published
> accurately, and the results from the published list match the official
> results, then it is a fair election.

Very interesting points Ryan makes.  Let me give an example from the
results of the election last year:

  http://foundation.gnome.org/vote/votes.php?election_id=2

What he's saying is that, suppose you voted for me, Quim, Federico,
Dave, Bastien, Luis, and Jeff, and were given the anonymous token
0bhnyOzwLJ05jYV2phjusfe0jBYO3HZf.  How do you make sure that no one else
who voted for the same seven candidates received the same anonymous
token?

> The one attack I can see is making up votes for people who were
> registered but didn't vote.
> 
> Gabriel

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Concerns about the election process

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sun, 2006-11-26 at 20:18 -0600, Gabriel Burt wrote:
> On 11/26/06, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > What he's saying is that, suppose you voted for me, Quim, Federico,
> > Dave, Bastien, Luis, and Jeff, and were given the anonymous token
> > 0bhnyOzwLJ05jYV2phjusfe0jBYO3HZf.  How do you make sure that no one else
> > who voted for the same seven candidates received the same anonymous
> > token?
> 
> I misunderstood.  This could be solved by printing the token and the
> date/time that the vote was received, couldn't it?  Is this
> information being logged so it could be used in this election?
> Another way could be to publish a list of people who voted, and people
> can check they are listed there, and compare the number of voters to
> the number of votes listed.

No.  It's not easy really.  Just because the number of voters matches
the number of anon tokens listed, doesn't mean that unique tokens were
handed out to voters.  The results can be perturbed by handing out the
same token to more than one voter, and insert phony tokens with
arbitrary votes attached to them.

There's nothing we should rush for this year.  The point is /not/ that
the election committee cannot be trusted.  The point is, if we want to
have a system in which the voters do not have to trust the election
committee, then our current system does not qualify, and for the least,
it should not be advertised like it does.


> Gabriel
-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Questions for the candidates - let's start the discussion(s)

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Wed, 2006-11-22 at 12:53 +0530, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:

> [1] What are your plans to answer the question put forward at the last
> GUADEC about "Why should one become a member of the GNOME Foundation" ?

I think the current offerings: being able to vote for elections and to
get a @gnome.org address are quite attractive to someone passionate
about GNOME.  Much of our problem here I guess is the not-in-the-face
application page and the very slow response time.  To improve that,
others have already suggested, and I did too a while ago.  Offering
membership to anyone with lots of bug activity, those who get CVS
access, and apply for financial support, etc. will help there.

Also, I'm fine, and actually support limiting any financial/costly
support to foundation members.  E.g. sending people to conferences, or
sending them the event box should be limited to foundation members.
BUT, only if we have a application process that is so fast that one can
become a member as needed, if they qualify.

More than that, I don't think there's much more we can offer, nor do I
think that it's a problem.


> Would you be in a position to elaborate on your plans/projects to make
> membership more interesting for the GNOME Community ?

I will pursue the above changes if I get on Board, yes.  The recent
change of lowering the contribution requirements is already toward these
goals.  Making sure that the queue is kept very short is next.  I think
we can do that.


> [2] What do you think is the most important item on the Board's agenda
> right now ?

The online store + the website revamp.  The website is on track and
progressing fast, thanks to Quim.  The online store however doesn't seem
to be on target right now.  That's something to look into fast IMO.
These two components put together define our existence on the web, and
that's becoming more and more important every day.  We have cool blogs,
we have cool artists, we have cool software.  We need to let everyone
know about them.


> What will you do more or better than the previous boards ?

Not having been on board, I really can't tell.  And given the current
board, I'm not sure there's anything I can do better honestly.  But I
can promise my dedication, and the same work quality that I put in other
things that I do.


> [3] How do you manage your time and that of others ?

I'm getting better at this, although starting a full-time job did
pressure my earlier habits.  Right now, I use mails in my inbox inside
Evo and tabs open in Firefox (two applications that I have to kill and
restart with my limited memory...) to hold my short-term and immediate
TODO items, and Google calendar for the longer term events.  I'm most
productive over IRC and email, although I can handle infrequent phone
meetings.


> Are you good at
> working with others including those who might have a differing opinion
> than yours and try to reach consensus and agree on actions ?

I am.  I love free software for the working-with-others part, and have
been doing that on technical terms very successfully.  On the less
technical grounds, I understand that there may not be one true way, and
I'm ready to compromise, and to respect a consensus.


> [4] How are you going to manage your current contributions to GNOME once
> you become a Board Member ?

My maintenance duties take a very small part of my time, and are easy to
manage.  Development and bug fixing however is what takes most of my
time.  I'm lucky enough to do much of of these as part of my day job at
Red Hat.  I'm allowed to spend a reasonable amount of my day time on
board matters, if elected.  If more time needed, I have to find an
afternoon or a few hours from the weekend.  Both are fine.


> [5] What do you think is the most important market for GNOME over the
> coming year and what do you feel you can do to help GNOME achieve better
> presence ?

OLPC definitely, and also more embedded devices.  We are fortunatley in
pretty good contact with OLPC.  The board can make sure that OLPC test
systems are sent to strategic GNOME developers that may not be
interested in asking for one personally.  People working on presence,
power management, tagging, etc.


> [6] What are your plans to encourage and mentor contributions to GNOME
> from Latin America, Africa and Asia ? How would you increase community
> participation ?

We are pretty on track for Latin America from what I see.  As for Africa
and Asia, I think we should identify passionate people there, and bring
them to GUADEC, and send people there to run small events.  That seems
like the best way to let people there know we are interested in having
them and pass the message.  If we manage to attract enough people to
start a local community, it's downhill from there.


> [7] What areas do you see lacking currently in a complete Free Software
> Desktop ? What would your role be (should you be elected) in addressing
> the issues ?

Multimedia I would say.  Now this is a very special issue.  We canno

Re: Concerns about the election process

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Mon, 2006-11-27 at 09:23 -0300, Germán Poó Caamaño wrote:
> > No.  It's not easy really.  Just because the number of voters matches
> > the number of anon tokens listed, doesn't mean that unique tokens were
> > handed out to voters.  The results can be perturbed by handing out the
> > same token to more than one voter, and insert phony tokens with
> > arbitrary votes attached to them.
> 
> It is pretty hard that two voters receive the same token.

This statement is only true because we trust the elections committee.
Otherwise, I don't see why it's pretty hard to give two voters the same
token.  *That* is the point of this thread.

> > There's nothing we should rush for this year.  The point is /not/ that
> > the election committee cannot be trusted.  The point is, if we want to
> > have a system in which the voters do not have to trust the election
> > committee, then our current system does not qualify, and for the least,
> > it should not be advertised like it does.
> 
> Having the list of all voters and each voter checking his or her vote,
> should be enough.  IMVHO, Any voter as member of foundation has the
> moral obligation to check it.

As Ryan noted and I tried to explain, checking votes in the current
system means almost nothing.


-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Questions

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2006-11-28 at 22:47 -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> 
> Well - the Fedora Project Board is made up of a certain percentage of
> community contributors and Red Hat employees. Since there is already a
> restriction on the number of people who can be on the GNOME Board from
> one company, it may be worth considering something similar requiring
> that a certain percentage of Board members are from the community. I'm
> not quite sure how this would work in practice. Just an idea. 

We *are* the community.  Are you suggesting that we reserve a spot on
the board for unemployed people?!  Even without having such a reserved
spot I believe we have been having students or self-employed peoples on
board since forever.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: GNOME and the free software movement

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sat, 2006-11-25 at 01:58 -0500, Richard Stallman wrote:
> In general, a free program that runs in a completely free system is a
> contribution to freedom; but GNOME is special: it was launched
> specifically to defend our freedom.  We stated GNOME to blunt the
> danger of the (then) non-free QT library.  I think most GNOME users
> and developers today are not aware of this.

While I'm completely aware of these details, I don't think one should
need to use that as an argument anymore.  GNOME could have been started
just because someone didn't like KDE and still have the same goals and
targets that it has today.

> I would like to ask the candidates for the board to state their views
> on how GNOME can work with the broader free software movement
> for the advance of computer users' freedom.

I believe in the values of this freedom myself, but never use it as an
argument when I want to switch someone to GNU/Linux.  Particularly not
when dealing with people who have got a Windows XP installed on their
laptop when they bought it and don't pay for any software either because
they get it from their department or they just copy it illegally.  What
I do use as an argument, is the lean and clean environment of a
GNU/Linux desktop compared to an XP one.  In particular, lack of
viruses, spywares, and all that crap, and default availability of any
software they need for their day to day work.  Now /that/ works pretty
good.

I'm all for making GNOME work with free software movements to advance
the freedom of its target audience, particularly in the DRM and software
patent issues.  I'm just not convinced that we have to expose it in the
face of the user in every single place.  They simply don't care.  We,
the developers, do (for them!).


-- 
behdad
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"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Our annual meeting at GUADEC

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Sat, 2007-01-06 at 21:55 +0100, Quim Gil wrote:
> 
> - Let's schedule the AGM the afternoon or even early evening before
> the Core days start.

Like it.  We can even use the meeting to do some stuff like matching
faces to IRC nicks.  I know I will miss catching up with at least a
couple of people I've wanted to see at GUADEC every year.  If we can get
all foundation members together before the core days, it's the right
place to look for most people you want to meet.  They are all foundation
members by now, right?

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Supporting Gtk+ Maintenance

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 09:19 +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> 
> > So for the foundation board, there are two things that can be done
> > to improve the current situation:
> > 
> > 1) Please present the issue at hand (this email and the email linked
> >to above) to the advisory board members, to make sure the
> companies
> >involved are aware of the situation. And if possible, spread the
> >word to other involved parties or (non advisory) companies.
> 
> Your timing is fantastic -- we're having an Advisory Board meeting
> tomorrow morning. I will bring it up then. :-) 

Indeed.  This has been in my agenda for tomorrow's meeting, and I'm
taking notes about it right now.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Call for invitations to be the host of GUADEC 2008

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 10:37 +0100, Dave Neary wrote:
> 
> Does that mean that candidates outside the EU would be considered? Not
> sure - we would need to discuss it.
> 
> But one thing is for sure - the travel costs for attendees is
> something
> which will definitely be taken into account, and in general that will
> exclude anything outside North America and Europe. 

/me fancies a GUADEC in Dubai.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: Special GNOME event in California next week

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 13:42 -0400, Dan Winship wrote:
> 
> Seriously though, this "surprise announcement" stuff is exactly the sort
> of behavior that the community despises when Novell[1] and Red Hat[2] do
> it, and now we're doing it to ourselves??? 

What's wrong with building up some hype?   Maybe you can wait until the
announcement is out and then decide if you can blame anybody for it?

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: Special GNOME event in California next week

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 13:35 -0500, Jonathon Jongsma wrote:
> On 4/13/07, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 13:42 -0400, Dan Winship wrote:
> > >
> > > Seriously though, this "surprise announcement" stuff is exactly the sort
> > > of behavior that the community despises when Novell[1] and Red Hat[2] do
> > > it, and now we're doing it to ourselves???
> >
> > What's wrong with building up some hype?   Maybe you can wait until the
> > announcement is out and then decide if you can blame anybody for it?
> 
> Whether or not we like the announcement or not is, I think, completely
> beside the point.  The point is the openness of the board, which has a
> mandate to be open and responsive to members.  Dan posted this
> particularly relevant bit of the charter in his email:

You are making the same mistake IMO.  Blaming the board for something
you do not really know yet, but you will know in a week or so.  So, why
don't you just wait?  There is always time to blame.

I'll be more than happy to discuss this further, but at some point the
membership has got to understand that if the board wants to keep
something secret, there most probably is good reason to.  And asking for
vague details doesn't help anyone in any way.  Here is an opportunity
that a secret of the board will become public next week.  Feel free to
discuss it when it's out.


-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Special GNOME event in California next week

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 14:34 -0500, Jonathon Jongsma wrote:
> 
> And again, let me stress that this has nothing to do with whether I
> trust any specific board members or whether I think the board is doing
> a good job.  I just think that maintaining an open culture where
> everybody feels that they can have an impact on the future of GNOME is
> critical to the success of the project. 

This is the second time you bring this up in the thread, so let me make
it clear: if the board keeps some affairs secret, it does not limit
anybody from contributing to, having an impact on, or participating in
determining the direction of GNOME.  If you disagree with this and have
a case to the contrary, you should let the board know about it.

Cheers,
-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Board Meeting Minutes :: 29th March 2007

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2007-04-10 at 11:47 +0200, Adrian Custer wrote:
> Now I can't evaluate the *actual* work of the board by the very nature
> of the secrecy; my only recourse is to trust you to auto-evaluate your
> situation yourselves. I hope you can do that and then re-iterate that
> you think it's best or necessary. 
> 
> > 
> >  * The Board is responsible for employees, who must be able to expect
> >privacy with regards to their management and remuneration.
> 
> I have no real way of evaluating this. 

Unless a current/prospective board members starts taking credit for what
they have done in the board in secret, I don't see how not being able to
evaluate the secret stuff is a problem at all.  It's not like all board
candidates say "...and a lot of other stuff that were private to the
board."


-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Call for invitations to be the host of GUADEC 2008

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-03-23 at 00:01 -0600, Miguel Angel López Hernández wrote:
> El jue, 22-03-2007 a las 12:11 +, Alan Cox escribió:
> 
> > Mexico has some claim to be the original "home of Gnome"...
> 
> In fact! we want to organize the GUADLAC (GNOME Users And Developers
> Latin American Conference) the "Latin American GUADEC", later this year,
> it can be the pre-GUADEC in Mexico :)

Why not just GUADAC?  You are suggesting that US and Canada should start
their own GUADNAC, are you?


> Greetings,
> Miguel
-- 
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 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 22:39 +0300, Quim Gil wrote:
> About the KDE & GNOME event, probably the best way to progress is by
> doing progressive approaches. Jumping from the current situation to a
> joint conference sounds a bit like going from self-esteem to the 32nd
> position of the Kama Sutra in one go.
> 
> As others have suggested, a successful combined room in FOSDEM would
> be already a big (and useful) step. Trying to put together GUADEC and
> aKademy befor trying smaller challenges in save contexts would be very
> risky.

Maybe for some people, not for me.  Lets repeat again: many of us can
only get to one European conference per year, and even that one is hard
enough to get to.  Sure, there is DAM, there was DesktopConf, there is
LCA, but how can they be efficient if only 50 of the 500 GUADEC
attendees get the chance to experience it?


> And combining both events is complicated only from the organizational
> point of view. The KDE and GNOME community don't meet in random
> places, or where the software/events industry decides to organize
> something. The organization of each event rlies on local communities.
> It is not that easy for each project to find brave teams and good
> venues every year (how many candidates for GUADEC 2008 have we got?).
> Now think about the challenge of searching for a place with GNOME &
> KDE critical mass

Lets not mix organizational challenges into the discussion just yet.
First step we go see if both parties (KDE and GNOME boards/communities)
are interested in the topic.

And I don't agree that colocating GUADEC and aKademy has a worse time
finding a home.  If nothing else, there are more people willing to
contribute to the event, more money, etc.

> I wouldn't spend much time discussing about mixing/approaching GUADEC
> & aKademy. Steps towards combined sessions and programs in the main
> free (and also non-free) software events is probably more fruitful.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 12:43 +0200, Rodrigo Moya wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 22:39 +0300, Quim Gil wrote:
> > About the KDE & GNOME event, probably the best way to progress is by
> > doing progressive approaches. Jumping from the current situation to a
> > joint conference sounds a bit like going from self-esteem to the 32nd
> > position of the Kama Sutra in one go.
> 
> > As others have suggested, a successful combined room in FOSDEM would
> > be already a big (and useful) step. Trying to put together GUADEC and
> > aKademy befor trying smaller challenges in save contexts would be very
> > risky.
> > 
> a good idea is the GUADEMY we recently had in A Coruña. It was just a
> start, but the idea is very good, get KDE/GNOME developers together and
> have talks/tutorials/etc of things that are common to both desktops.
> Doing separate tracks for KDE and GNOME (which is what mixing GUADEC and
> Akademy would mean) might not be a good idea, since you'll get 2
> separated groups with almost no interaction.

This is missing the point that GUADEC is about meeting people, not the
talks.  I guess aKademy is the same.


> So, until we are all really interested in what the "rival" desktop is
> doing, I think it would be better to organise separate events, and have
> a 2nd edition of the GUADEMY (as part of FOSDEM if that helps), with
> more focus on collaboration between desktops, so that people really
> interested in the collaboration can attend. All others can continue
> going to GUADEC/Akademy.

First, I don't think of KDE as rival.  Hell Qt developers and I are
working together on HarfBuzz!  Next, so you think most people are not
interested in knowing what KDE hackers are doing?  That may even be the
case, doesn't mean that it's good.  People don't wake up in the morning
and decide that they have become interested in KDE.  They do if they
talk about interesting projects over beer with interesting people that
happen to be KDE hackers though.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 12:55 +1200, Glynn Foster wrote:
> 
> I'd *love* to get to the stage where we could outsource the conference, but 
> the
> last time we did that and outsourced an expo day, it was a bit of a disaster.
> Financially we're probably not in the position to do this either if people are
> expecting the conference to be free.

But with the greater funding opportunity that is expected to come with
joining forces, we may be able to hire two contributors to work on it
fulltime for a few months.  Definitely possible in the less expensive
European countries which are more likely to host GUADEC in the coming
years, given that we've only had Western Europe countries so far.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-06-15 at 14:05 +1200, Glynn Foster wrote:
> 
> Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> > On Thu, 2007-06-14 at 12:55 +1200, Glynn Foster wrote:
> >> I'd *love* to get to the stage where we could outsource the conference, 
> >> but the
> >> last time we did that and outsourced an expo day, it was a bit of a 
> >> disaster.
> >> Financially we're probably not in the position to do this either if people 
> >> are
> >> expecting the conference to be free.
> > 
> > But with the greater funding opportunity that is expected to come with
> > joining forces, we may be able to hire two contributors to work on it
> > fulltime for a few months.  Definitely possible in the less expensive
> > European countries which are more likely to host GUADEC in the coming
> > years, given that we've only had Western Europe countries so far.
> 
> Why is it likely that we'd get more funding? With joining forces, you join
> sponsorship opportunities and join numbers attending.

There was a promise that companies have an easier time allocating a
larger lump of money for one super conference than for two smaller,
less-known-in-the-marketing-world conferences.  Think OLS for example,
but for the desktop.  Needless to say, it remains to be checked in
reality.

behdad

> Unless there's some magical way of tapping into new sponsorship that I'm
> missing, you still pretty much end up with the same result - not counting 
> those
> companies that used to sponsor each event, now sponsoring potentially less
> overall on a single event.
> 
> 
> Glynn
-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

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 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 19:02 -0600, Elijah Newren wrote:
> 
> This combined conference topic was brought up at DAM-4 last week in
> the Desktop Organization Panel session with jrb and I in the panel
> from GNOME and Lars and George (don't remember the last names) from

Lars Knoll.


> KDE.  When both sides mentioned that the logistics of such an event
> seemed quite difficult, someone pointed out that helping with this
> kind of collaboration is one of the reasons for the existence of the
> Linux Foundation.  So, there may well be additional organizational
> resources available. 

So, what was KDE's reaction? And any resolution?  Are we going to
discuss it?  Where?

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: GNOME Foundation Board Meeting Minutes :: 7/6/07

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2007-06-19 at 00:16 -0400, Claudio Saavedra wrote:
> 
> So, why not giving a lift to GUADEMY and making of it an instance for
> KDE and GNOME hackers to get together once a year? 

Because it's already too hard and too expensive to get to one European
event for many of us?

Sure for those who can make it, by all means go for it.  It's not like
we have a limit on the number of events that can happen.  But only one
is GUADEC.

behdad
who has repeated this 20 times in this discussion


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Re: [guadec-list] Sponsorship letter

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-06-29 at 13:56 -0500, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> (sorry if someone gets duplicates of this)
> 
> Fighting the consulates, I realized that it would be a good idea to
> have a letter from the foundation where it's acknowledged that I'm
> being sponsored to attende GUADEC and GUADEC-ES. You know, to make
> things "look official".

I prefer to have these things handled by GUADEC organizers, not the
Board.  The standard GUADEC invitation letter looks quite official to
me, and has got me (and others) visas already.

What kind of problems are you having with the consulate?


behdad

> So I crafted a letter about this, with the hope that someone wants to
> give me a hand and fill in the blanks, insert a png with his/her
> signature and mail it back to me.
> Obviously to make it official it has to be a Board Member the one signing it.
> 
> I hope someone can give me a hand!
> 
> Diego
> 
> 
> To whom it may concern (is this english?)
> 
> On behalf of The GNOME Foundation, I would like to confirm that Mr.
> Diego Escalante Urrelo is being sponsored to attend GUADEC 2007: The
> GNOME Conference 15th - 21st  July, 2007, Birmingham, United Kingdom,
> the 8th annual GNOME Users and Developers European Conference and
> GUADEC-ES 2007: The GNOME Hispanic Users and Developers Conference
> 12th - 13th July, 2007.
> 
> Mr. Diego Escalante Urrelo holds a passport numbered 3923409.
> 
> His flight to Spain and United Kingdom, his accommodation and other
> expenses during 11th-24th July 2007 are covered by the GUADEC
> committee in 1 Great Colmore Street Birmingham, B15 2AP, UK. Which is
> a $relationship with the foundation.
> 
> He is being sponsored because of his contributions to the GNOME
> project which include software development, software translation and
> authoring software documentation. He has also helped promote GNOME in
> events, media and local community groups.
> We would like him to attend GUADEC so that he can share his
> experiences and learn about the latest developments in the GNOME
> project.
> 
> GNOME Foundation (gnome.org) is a non-profit, non-government
> organization based in Boston, USA, with a worldwide membership. The
> GNOME User and Developer European Conferences (GUADEC and GUADEC-ES)
> www.guadec.org - www.guadec.es are annual gatherings of GNOME
> developers, enthusiasts and individual, business, education and
> government users worldwide.
> 
> Yours sincerely,
> SCANED SIGNATURE
> 
> 
> someone
> ___
> guadec-list mailing list
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
-- 
behdad
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"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: [guadec-list] Sponsorship letter

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-06-29 at 15:02 -0500, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote:
> On 6/29/07, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2007-06-29 at 13:56 -0500, Diego Escalante Urrelo wrote:
> > > Hello everyone,
> > >
> > > (sorry if someone gets duplicates of this)
> > >
> > > Fighting the consulates, I realized that it would be a good idea to
> > > have a letter from the foundation where it's acknowledged that I'm
> > > being sponsored to attende GUADEC and GUADEC-ES. You know, to make
> > > things "look official".
> >
> > I prefer to have these things handled by GUADEC organizers, not the
> > Board.  The standard GUADEC invitation letter looks quite official to
> > me, and has got me (and others) visas already.
> >
> > What kind of problems are you having with the consulate?
> >
> Yep I know, it's quite good. What I mean with this one is to show that
> the top-level organization (the foundation) knows about all this and
> to explain that my trip is both to Spain and UK.
> Right now I have the standard UK invitation letter (guadec letter) and
> that's fine, but it only mentions my trip to UK, it doesn't detail
> that I'm dropping by Spain a few days.

Then please get a letter from the GUADEC-ES organizers.  A letter from a
US foundation about your trip to two conferences in Europe doesn't look
that useful to me.


> It's just to summarize things. Under the asumption that if it doesn't
> harm then it clarifies things for the embassy.

I'm personally quite against the "doesn't harm" argument when a lot of
overhead is involved.  Instead, I suggest you go apply really quick with
whatever letters you have so far.

Cheers,

behdad


> > behdad
> >
> > > So I crafted a letter about this, with the hope that someone wants to
> > > give me a hand and fill in the blanks, insert a png with his/her
> > > signature and mail it back to me.
> > > Obviously to make it official it has to be a Board Member the one signing 
> > > it.
> > >
> > > I hope someone can give me a hand!
> > >
> > > Diego
> > >
> > > 
> > > To whom it may concern (is this english?)
> > >
> > > On behalf of The GNOME Foundation, I would like to confirm that Mr.
> > > Diego Escalante Urrelo is being sponsored to attend GUADEC 2007: The
> > > GNOME Conference 15th - 21st  July, 2007, Birmingham, United Kingdom,
> > > the 8th annual GNOME Users and Developers European Conference and
> > > GUADEC-ES 2007: The GNOME Hispanic Users and Developers Conference
> > > 12th - 13th July, 2007.
> > >
> > > Mr. Diego Escalante Urrelo holds a passport numbered 3923409.
> > >
> > > His flight to Spain and United Kingdom, his accommodation and other
> > > expenses during 11th-24th July 2007 are covered by the GUADEC
> > > committee in 1 Great Colmore Street Birmingham, B15 2AP, UK. Which is
> > > a $relationship with the foundation.
> > >
> > > He is being sponsored because of his contributions to the GNOME
> > > project which include software development, software translation and
> > > authoring software documentation. He has also helped promote GNOME in
> > > events, media and local community groups.
> > > We would like him to attend GUADEC so that he can share his
> > > experiences and learn about the latest developments in the GNOME
> > > project.
> > >
> > > GNOME Foundation (gnome.org) is a non-profit, non-government
> > > organization based in Boston, USA, with a worldwide membership. The
> > > GNOME User and Developer European Conferences (GUADEC and GUADEC-ES)
> > > www.guadec.org - www.guadec.es are annual gatherings of GNOME
> > > developers, enthusiasts and individual, business, education and
> > > government users worldwide.
> > >
> > > Yours sincerely,
> > > SCANED SIGNATURE
> > >
> > >
> > > someone
> > > ___
> > > guadec-list mailing list
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
> > --
> > behdad
> > http://behdad.org/
> >
> > "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
> >  Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
> > -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759
> >
> >
> >
> >
-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Re: Regarding OOXML and Microsoft patents

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 20:09 +0100, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
> Miguel and Michael have done remarkable jobs in many situations, and
> as such deserve a lot of praise for those jobs.
> 
> This one, however, is not a remarkable job and deserves critic.

It's not about praise or doing a remarkable job.  It's about respect.

May I suggest that the rest of discussion in this thread be moved out of
foundation-list?  I don't think it's relevant to the foundation anymore.

behdad


> Regards,
> Rui
> 
> ps: is how can we do autoSpaceLikeWord95 a snide remark? Is 2004/48/EC
> a snide remark? all those things will affect us (you're from Europe,
> right?) very soon.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 31, 2007 at 04:05:48PM +0200, Christian F.K. Schaller wrote:
> > Hi Rui,
> > I just read through this whole thread from start to finish after having
> > gotten a little behind on my email. 
> > 
> > Personally the ODF versus OOXML discussion is only of secondary interest
> > to me, but one thing struck me through this whole debate. Rui, it is
> > fine to disagree with Miguel and Michael about the qualities or lack of
> > such of the OOXML specification. But I don't think the kind of rude
> > personal attacks and snide remarks you been targeting at Miguel and
> > Michael throughout this discussion belong anywhere. Miguel and Michael
> > have each done more for free software than most of us can even hope to
> > aspire to, and thus trying to smear them only makes you look bad and for
> > people to consider your arguments to be without merit.
> > 
> > I assume the reason this debate is on the gnome foundation list is
> > because there is a wish to have the GNOME foundation come out stronger
> > in favour of ODF. But if that is the goal I think a more professional
> > attitude is a better tool, as the current badmouthing do not entice me
> > at least, to get stronger GNOME endorsement ODF.
> > 
> > Christian
> > 
> > On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 21:34 +0100, Rui Miguel Silva Seabra wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 03:37:06PM -0400, Miguel de Icaza wrote:
> > > > Hello,
> > > > 
> > > > > > > Also, why do you say the format is open? Can you tell me how 
> > > > > > > Word95 does
> > > > > > > auto-space ?
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Can you tell me how ODF lays out paragraphs or does 
> > > > > > line-breaking or
> > > > > > wraps text to shaped embedded objects or ... ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Nothing in OOXML spec explains how Word95 does autospace, so how can a
> > > > > full implementation of OOXML respect that tag's meaning?
> > > > 
> > > > The topic is addressed here:
> > > > 
> > > > http://blogs.msdn.com/brian_jones/archive/2007/01/09/specifying-the-document-settings.aspx
> > > 
> > > "Use OpenOffice.org 1.1 line spacing" this argument is funny, and was
> > > addressed at the Portuguese Technical Commission.
> > > 
> > > There is an essential difference between
> > > SecretRuleYouCan'tKnowOfProductFuBar and
> > > UnderSpecifiedRuleYouCanReadSourceCodeToCompleteKnowledge
> > > 
> > > > And it addresses in particular the issue of whether it should be removed
> > > > or not.
> > > 
> > > Nice, just another repeatition the argument of "legacy". What about
> > > KWord? Can it support legacy formats, or is legacy only for Microsoft?
> > > 
> > > If it's only for Microsoft (since KWord most definitely can't do it),
> > > then how can it be part of an open standard?
> > > 
> > > > Of course this is my position on technical merits, others implementors
> > > > might have other views.   On political and activist grounds you might
> > > > also reach different conclusions, but I will find it difficult in the
> > > > future to say with a straight face in court "well, they did not specify
> > > > enough, so this format created lock-in". 
> > > > 
> > > > > Specially from people who work for a company that is strategically
> > > > > aligned with Microsoft.
> > > > 
> > > > Ah, the old guilt by association way of constructing a logical argument.
> > > > Always a fine choice.
> > > 
> > > Well, pot, meet kettle. However, you are the one who said almost word
> > > for word what another Microsoft employee said at the Portuguese Meeting.
> > > 
> > > It's fortunate that he didn't speak Portuguese, this is how I could tell
> > > you used almost word for word what he said. Do they give lectures on how
> > > to answer? I'm curious :)
> > > 
> > > Rui
> > > 
> 
> -- 
> Frink!
> Today is Boomtime, the 66th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3173
> + No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
> + Whatever you do will be insignificant,
> | but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
> + So let's do it...?
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Code of Conduct on foundation-list

[Behdad Esfahbod]

Hi,

I want to suggest opting in for Code of Conduct [1] on foundation-list.
See the "Applies to" section of CoC for what this means in practical
terms.

[1] http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct

Cheers,
-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Code of Conduct on foundation-list

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Tue, 2007-07-31 at 22:52 +0300, Quim Gil wrote:
> 
> In this context, and in the foundation related lists, an additional
> code of conduct is just redundant. 

Understood.  But it's just easier to point people to CoC when they
behave poorly.

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: no confirmation received

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Wed, 2007-08-01 at 18:56 +0300, Zeeshan Ali wrote:
> Hello people!
>   I paid $50 yesterday morning to become a 'Benefactor' but so far i
> haven't received any email from the gnome foundation about it. Are you
> all on vacation at the same time? :)

Hi Zeeshan,

Thanks for your contribution.  Friends-of-GNOME payments are all
processed by our part-time administrator.  Please give her a few days.

Thanks,
-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Foundation and Source Code Copyright

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 12:49 +0100, Thomas Wood wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 07:06:39 -0400
> "Luis Villa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> [...]
> > > > A couple of developers, including myself, have been working on a
> > > > new capplet for the control center. Since we had been working on
> > > > it as a group we decided it would be fairest to assign copyright
> > > > to the foundation rather than any particular individual.
> > 
> > You can always jointly own copyright; if you look around CC I'm sure
> > you'll see lots of files that are (c) both jrb and chema, for example.
> 
> We were aware of this, but since contributions mean that there are
> often a half a dozen different contributors to one file, we thought it
> may be easier to assign copyright and then list the contributors as
> authors.
> 
> After all, should someone who has made just a small patch really be
> responsible for the copyright of the whole file, or just the lines they
> contributed? The opposite question also applies; Should the person who
> started the work be responsible for the contributions of others which
> may even unknowingly infringe on other copyrights.

It's not about being responsible for others.  As was already said, the
list is just documentation, it may or may not be correct.  The list
itself doesn't bring any legal responsibility I guess.  With version
control systems, it's always possible to track down who introduced what,
so you really don't need to worry.

And best practice if you are not interested in the copyright of the code
personally may be to ask your employer if they are interested.  One
advantage of the current way we assign copyright is that we diversify
ownership.  When multiple companies (Red Hat, Novell, Sun, ...) own
copyright on a package, it's harder to do something wrong (for example,
to relicense the package under a new license).

> I think these were some of the issues we were hoping to avoid in
> assigning the copyright to a single entity. Obviously we also hoped
> that assigning the copyright to the foundation would have the advantage
> that they would be more prepared to defend the copyright should the
> need ever arise.

If you still want to assign to someone else and be done with it, FSF can
do that I guess.

> Regards,
> 
> Thomas


-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Foundation and Source Code Copyright

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 21:48 +0200, Juan José Sánchez Penas wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 03, 2007 at 01:40:39PM -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote:
> > ownership.  When multiple companies (Red Hat, Novell, Sun, ...) own
> > copyright on a package, it's harder to do something wrong (for example,
> > to relicense the package under a new license).
> 
> Is this always something wrong? I guess sometimes making easier to change a
> license can be good (in terms of freedom, for example). All depends on how
> much you (want to) trust the copyright holder.

Yeah, could be good if it was easier to say change Evo from GPLv2 to
GPLv3+, but you either end up having many copyright holders anyway (all
the people submitting non-trivial patches on bugzilla) or risk blocking
development by bureaucracy of having to submit disclaimer or assignment
forms first, like what Sun is doing with Java right now, or FSF with
Emacs and some other projects.

> - juanjo
-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 14:05 -0700, Andy Tai wrote:
> Something like GnomeMeeting (now with a newer name) can be utilized to
> have faces seeing faces...

Video conf-calls are not much more productive than regular phone calls.
And btw I could never get ekiga working for me, and I tried a few
times...


> There was some talk of a GNOME conference in East Asia.   Maybe it
> would be a good idea to have an annual event there in China, or Japan,
> or Korea, in early Spring... 

Thanks for your suggestion, but Yet Another Conference is not the
answer.  The board can set up meetings anytime of the year, but flying 7
people to the same place and accommodating them costs at least 5,000
(more like 10,000) USD, all assuming that people actually do have the
time to attend it.

GUADEC on the other hand, everyone is already there.  Add to that the
fact that the board regularly needs to consult with other foundation
members/committees, who are all at GUADEC too.


-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Proposal: Shift election cycle back six months

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Fri, 2007-08-10 at 02:33 -0700, Andy Tai wrote:
> OK, simply, the stated reason for the extraordinary measure (face to
> face meeting timing) is not a strong one to justify touching the term
> limit of the board.

And why do you think so?  I totally understand that you may be against
extending the term of the current board.  That makes total sense, and
there's no consensus even at the board level.  But, what do you see so
in need of justification for extending the term of one board (the next
one) from 12 months to 17 months?  How can that affect the foundation in
a negative way?


behdad

> On 8/9/07, Jeff Waugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> The proposal is about doing something out of the ordinary
> processes defined
> by the bylaws -- that is why we are consulting the membership.
> Rather than
> point out that the situation is extraordinary, please tell us
> your feelings 
> or concerns about the proposal as a member.
> 
> - Jeff
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behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: Towards more collaboration between the academic world and the GNOME community

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Mon, 2007-08-20 at 15:41 -0400, Fernando San Martín Woerner wrote:
> 
> http://live.gnome.org/Academic 

The page says "There is a mailing list to discuss this topic within the
community".  Links please?

-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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Re: no confirmation received

[Behdad Esfahbod]

On Thu, 2007-09-06 at 18:51 +0300, Zeeshan Ali wrote:
> Hello Behdad!
> 
> On 8/1/07, Behdad Esfahbod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Thanks for your contribution.  Friends-of-GNOME payments are all
> > processed by our part-time administrator.  Please give her a few days.
> 
>How exactly "part-time" is this part-time admin? It's been a month
> now and benefits mentioned on friends webpage[1] aside, i haven't even
> received a confirmation. I hate to whine about a 50 bucks but a month
> is a long time.

Sorry about it.  I've talked to our administrator to improve this
situation.  In the mean time, your package (plus every else's pending)
will be sent out tomorrow or early next week.


> [1] http://www.gnome.org/friends/


-- 
behdad
http://behdad.org/

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little
 Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759



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