Re: [Framers] FrameMaker crashes

[Peter Gold]

Afterthoughts are always enlightening.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone reporting this problem describe the
other main applications - like MS office apps, and utilities, browsers,
messaging tools, background agents like Acrobat's watched folder daemon,
etc. - that are running at the same time as the failing FM installation.

If there were such a thing as one's copious spare time, it could be
interesting to see if FM failed the same way when running as the only
active application.

Also, has anyone analyzed the crash logs for information about conflicts
with other applications?

Finally, this popped up from my application-specific reptile-brain
repository: in the early days, there were suggested operating system
settings, like files=## and buffers=##, where ## were numbers that
allocated specific amounts of memory space for applications to use for
specific chores, if the OS or application needed more than was
automatically reserved. Granted, OSs are smarter, and current machines have
more resources, but perhaps FM could benefit from a bit of archaic help
here. It just takes two lines in a startup config file to try it, and the
wish that it doesn't unexpectedly break anything.  :)

One more thing: does anyone who runs more than two or more simultaneous FM
installations experience the failure after long portions of work without
restarts? If so, so all installations fail together, or just the one with a
dominant being actively edited?



On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, 11:55 AM Craig, Alison GLI/CA <
acr...@greenlightinnovation.com> wrote:

> I don't get this type of freeze/crash, but I do get regular crashes
> (latest version of Frame using the (hated) subscription model)
>
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Re: [Framers] FrameMaker crashes

[Peter Gold]

I remember FM in 1999 and also 1989!

It's not likely that Adobe will find and fix this longtime issue soon. But
if you haven't reported it to the bug site, and discussed it with tech
support, it's worth a try.

A kludgy workaround might be to create a Windows/DOS batch file that
launches FM and starts a timer that pops a periodic on-screen reminder to
save and close all open FM files, then exits and restarts FM. A second
batch file could be made to copy the current project to a backup location,
perhaps by invoking one of the FM archiving utilities.

Surely some folks on this forum could help write the few lines of code it
would take. I haven't written a batch file since the last century. Even
then, my best ones were created by a colleague who implemented my
pseudo-code for our project.

HTH

On Mon, Oct 3, 2022, 9:34 AM Bertrand Meyer (SIT) <
bertrand.me...@inf.ethz.ch> wrote:

> Needless to say I have more than adequate resources (recent Intel
> processor, 32 GB of RAM, always up to date with Windows updates etc.)
>
>
>
> Prior to the current release I used FrameMaker 2019, and prior to that
> FrameMaker 2015. They both had the same behavior.
>
>
>
> Before that I used the Windows version 7.x for many years, approximatively
> 2002-2015  -- it was quite usable, although it did crash occasionally (with
> real crashes, not the kind of freezing I am getting now).
>
>
>
> And before that I used FrameMaker on Sun workstations, going back to 1993
> (no typo). It worked quite well. It clearly had a memory leak problem which
> meant that it had to be restarted once in a while.
>
>
>
> But we are in 2022.
>
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Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM Book

[Peter Gold]

I get it. I recently spent a few hours watching python coding videos just
for curiosity. I remembered when I first started learning code, a colleague
who'd graduated in CS said, "once you learn one language their all the
same." So, I found it comforting to find it was true, as I followed along
in python.

This wouldn't work for you if you have to add a python interpreter to your
system. Some come with it installed. However, DOS batch language I believe
is still delivered in Windows, and similar tools are in OS-X, so you could
do some work from the command line without installing anything. Or write a
few lines of code in text that you run from the command line. What's the
difference between doing that and doing find/replace in MIF files? My FM
releases are ancient. Perhaps there's an ExtendScript interpreter in your
FM installation that you can use?

It's always good to be careful about security. Perhaps one of these hints
will be useful but secure.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 4:38 PM  wrote:

> In this particular case, the parent company simply has really high
> security fences, and as a "privacy wacko" - per my spouse :-) - I am on
> board with that.
>
> But yes, I will keep plugging away get permission to spend less that $100
> to automate and/or speed up some tasks (it's especially important for me as
> I am a lone writer).
>
> Alison
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Framers  On
> Behalf Of Peter Gold
> Sent: August 11, 2022 11:37 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM Book
>
> Hi, Alison!
>
> One argument that might work with the PTB to incentivize the IT approval
> is to compare the cost of your manual find/replace operation (your time,
> the delay in the whole operation it s part of, etc,) to the few moments it
> would take to run the Paragraph Tools. What manager wants to be responsible
> for increasing cost and delay, when they could be garnering praise for
> improving ROI?  :)
>
> When I first started working at a large company that wrote its docs in
> unix text editors like vi, and published in customized xroff, one of the
> core tech pubs teammates wrote unix scripts that massaged the files. They
> used a variety of native unix utilities and pipelined their outputs to bash
> the content into shape. Yes, there was development time, but the rest of
> the team only needed to type the command, and that effort paid back by
> doing the work almost instantly.
>
> If there s no other way to get some processing without a tool you now have
> and can t install, perhaps you can interest a colleague who loves coding
> challenges to use Windows batch file (or Mac Terminal) command line tools
> to perform operations on MIF files. Technically, creating a script this way
> isn t adding anything to the system. After testing, it's just automating
> manual stuff that humans might make mistakes when repeating.
>
> Corporate power has some good aspects, but stifling productivity isn t one.
> Often sticking with tradition hides the fact that resisting change is
> costly.
>
> Cheers!
>
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:52 AM  wrote:
>
> > Hi Peter:
> >
> > Thanks. I'm still waiting for permission from HQ IT Security to buy
> > and install a set of Silicon Prairie tools. They have to evaluate
> > everything before I can install anything. (The guy who runs SP even
> > provided me with a statement about how his programs work.)
> >
> > I think I've been waiting for 18 months at this point... :-(((
> >
> > But thanks for the reminder, I'll send our local IT Admin another note
> > asking him to follow up with HQ IT.
> >
> > Alison
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  On
> > Behalf Of Peter Gold
> > Sent: August 10, 2022 5:57 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM
> > Book
> >
> > For the future, silicon prairie software paragraph tools IIRC can do
> > this kind of fine-tuning. Also, creating and importing a skeleton MIF
> > file with only the settings you want can do it.
> >
> > OTOH, bruises earned but doing real grunt work in the trenches give
> > one the best confidence. :) Congrats!
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:54 PM  wrote:
> >
> > > Yes it is.
> > >
> > > I just went into every MIF file and did a search and replace on the
> > > language
> > > - a real pain as there were so many files, but it's done.
> > >
> > > Ali

Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM Book

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Alison!

One argument that might work with the PTB to incentivize the IT approval is
to compare the cost of your manual find/replace operation (your time, the
delay in the whole operation it’s part of, etc,) to the few moments it
would take to run the Paragraph Tools. What manager wants to be responsible
for increasing cost and delay, when they could be garnering praise for
improving ROI?  :)

When I first started working at a large company that wrote its docs in unix
text editors like vi, and published in customized xroff, one of the core
tech pubs teammates wrote unix scripts that massaged the files. They used a
variety of native unix utilities and pipelined their outputs to bash the
content into shape. Yes, there was development time, but the rest of the
team only needed to type the command, and that effort paid back by doing
the work almost instantly.

If there’s no other way to get some processing without a tool you now have
and can’t install, perhaps you can interest a colleague who loves coding
challenges to use Windows batch file (or Mac Terminal) command line tools
to perform operations on MIF files. Technically, creating a script this way
isn’t adding anything to the system. After testing, it's just automating
manual stuff that humans might make mistakes when repeating.

Corporate power has some good aspects, but stifling productivity isn’t one.
Often sticking with tradition hides the fact that resisting change is
costly.

Cheers!

On Thu, Aug 11, 2022 at 11:52 AM  wrote:

> Hi Peter:
>
> Thanks. I'm still waiting for permission from HQ IT Security to buy and
> install a set of Silicon Prairie tools. They have to evaluate everything
> before I can install anything. (The guy who runs SP even provided me with a
> statement about how his programs work.)
>
> I think I've been waiting for 18 months at this point... :-(((
>
> But thanks for the reminder, I'll send our local IT Admin another note
> asking him to follow up with HQ IT.
>
> Alison
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  On
> Behalf Of Peter Gold
> Sent: August 10, 2022 5:57 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM Book
>
> For the future, silicon prairie software paragraph tools IIRC can do this
> kind of fine-tuning. Also, creating and importing a skeleton MIF file with
> only the settings you want can do it.
>
> OTOH, bruises earned but doing real grunt work in the trenches give one the
> best confidence. :) Congrats!
>
> On Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:54 PM  wrote:
>
> > Yes it is.
> >
> > I just went into every MIF file and did a search and replace on the
> > language
> > - a real pain as there were so many files, but it's done.
> >
> > Alison
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  On
> > Behalf Of Craig Ede
> > Sent: August 10, 2022 4:30 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM
> > Book
> >
> > Isn't the language setting part of the paragraph tag definition?
> >
> > I'll go look, but that's what I recall. Where is the language setting
> > you are seeing defined?
> >
> > Craig Ede
> > 
> > From: Framers
> > 
> > on
> > behalf of Craig, Alison GLI/CA 
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:52 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM
> > Book
> >
> > Hi Craig:
> >
> > Importing the tags would simply import fresh para tags with the
> > language still set to English.
> >
> > I want to change the language to German - hopefully in some kind of
> > batch process.
> >
> > Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something in your explanation.
> >
> > Can I do this in this in the MIF files with Search and Replace?
> >
> > Alison
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers
> > 
> > On Behalf Of Craig Ede
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 2:44 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a
> > Translated FM Book
> >
> > !---|
> >   This message is from an external sender
> >   This email originated from outside of the organization.
> >   Do not click links or open attachments unless you
> >   recognize the sender and know the content

Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM Book

[Peter Gold]

For the future, silicon prairie software paragraph tools IIRC can do this
kind of fine-tuning. Also, creating and importing a skeleton MIF file with
only the settings you want can do it.

OTOH, bruises earned but doing real grunt work in the trenches give one the
best confidence. :) Congrats!

On Wed, Aug 10, 2022, 6:54 PM  wrote:

> Yes it is.
>
> I just went into every MIF file and did a search and replace on the
> language
> - a real pain as there were so many files, but it's done.
>
> Alison
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  On
> Behalf Of Craig Ede
> Sent: August 10, 2022 4:30 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM Book
>
> Isn't the language setting part of the paragraph tag definition?
>
> I'll go look, but that's what I recall. Where is the language setting you
> are seeing defined?
>
> Craig Ede
> 
> From: Framers 
> on
> behalf of Craig, Alison GLI/CA 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:52 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM Book
>
> Hi Craig:
>
> Importing the tags would simply import fresh para tags with the language
> still set to English.
>
> I want to change the language to German - hopefully in some kind of batch
> process.
>
> Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something in your explanation.
>
> Can I do this in this in the MIF files with Search and Replace?
>
> Alison
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers
>  On
> Behalf Of Craig Ede
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 2:44 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a
> Translated
> FM Book
>
> !---|
>   This message is from an external sender
>   This email originated from outside of the organization.
>   Do not click links or open attachments unless you
>   recognize the sender and know the content is safe. If you
>   are not sure, you can use the ReportPhish Button to
>   submit the message for analysis.
> |---!
>
> Alison Craig,
>
> You could import the tags from the original template (leaving overrides in
> place if you use them). If the English is part of the stand definition in
> the returned files (and not an override) that should work.
>
> If no "clean template" for the book exists, I would create one to have
> ready
> for this sort of contingency.
>
> Craig Ede
>
> 
> From: Framers 
> on
> behalf of Craig, Alison GLI/CA 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2022 4:23 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: [Framers] Updating Para Tag Language in a Translated FM Book
>
> Win 10 Pro, FM 2020
>
> I've just received my MIF files back from the translators (English to
> German) and all the Para Tag formats still have English (Canada) set as the
> Language.
>
> Is there a simple way to reset them all to German  - Germany (2006 Reform)?
>
> Alison
>
> Alison Craig
> Technical Writer, Engineering, Greenlight Innovation
>
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Re: [Framers] Thin Space - Non-breaking version?

[Peter Gold]

InDesign and some other apps IIRC can apply a no-break property to selected
text. FM text variables IIRC don't break. Have you tried creating your mark
as a variable?

On Tue, Jul 19, 2022, 12:21 PM Craig, Alison GLI/CA <
acr...@greenlightinnovation.com> wrote:

> Is there such a thing as a "non-breaking" thin space (esc, space, t).
>
> This would be extremely useful in documents using justified paragraphs as
> I add a thin space before and after a slash (for example, in "and/or").
>
> Thanks,
>
> Alison Craig
> Technical Writer, Engineering, Greenlight Innovation
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] activation dialog for old Adobe software

[Peter Gold]

"Escalate" is the  magic word to remember and employ early-on whenever
dealing with corporate tech-support and customer-service resistance.

When I did Ashton-Tate dBASE tech support around 1987, a customer wanted
the legal department to rewrite the product license because it was going to
expire in 50 years. We techs were sure the product would disappear before
then. There are about ten license years left. :) Some customers may still
be using that vintage software, but the company's been gone awhile. Go
figure.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 7:06 PM Robert Lauriston  wrote:

> I finally got around to contacting Adobe about this. Couldn't find a phone
> number so used chat. After I stumped the bot it connected me to an agent.
>
> Konari (6/13/22, 4:13:42 PM PDT): Thank you for your time. I want to inform
> > you that software is no longer distributed by
> > Adobe. We no longer have the software bits and it’s been decommissioned.
> > It happened because our aging activation
> > servers for Creative Suite products had to be retired.
> >
> > Konari (6/13/22, 4:14:40 PM PDT): As you're our long time customer, this
> > is a great time to consider moving With the
> > Acrobat PRO DC, you get a discounted price of 9.99 USD$$/month for the
> > next year and a free credit of 90 days on your
> > subscription. You will be paying 119.88 USD$$ approx. for the complete
> > year instead of the standard price of180 USD$$
> > with 3 free months too worth 29.97US$ (which is just half the price) .
> How
> > does that sound to you? Basically you'll be
> > getting discounted prices and also will be paying for 12 months and will
> > get 15 months. Would you like to buy this offer
> > plan? You can choose this plan in two types : 1- Annual plan paid monthly
> > with 3 free months. 2- Annual plan paid
> > upfront with 3 free months.The plan has number of benefits as they never
> > get out of support, support 24/7, Mac never
> > stops supporting these apps as it gets modifies along with the Mac
> updates
> > which was not available in older 10 years
> > old Adobe apps.
> >
> > You (6/13/22, 4:28:00 PM PDT): I paid for a permanent license.
> > You (6/13/22, 4:28:12 PM PDT): You have no legal grounds to stop it from
> > working.
> >
> > Konari (6/13/22, 4:33:50 PM PDT): We are not stopping. If it is already
> in
> > your system it will work otherwise you want to
> > use newly downloading and installing so it will not work because you are
> > working new operating system. and it was end
> > of life product.
> >
> > You (6/13/22, 4:37:42 PM PDT): No, it was working fine on Windows 10.
> > Something installed Acrobat DC and it disabled
> > Acrobat 8.
> >
> > Konari (6/13/22, 4:38:58 PM PDT): Once it disabled then it will not
> > activated.
> >
> > You (6/13/22, 4:39:44 PM PDT): That's not acceptable. You're stealing the
> > product you sold me.
> >
> > Konari (6/13/22, 4:42:58 PM PDT): I completely understand your concern I
> > am escalating your issue to our senior
> > department they will get back to you within 24 to 48 hours via new
> Acrobat
> > 10 serial number for one time exception
> > because you are our valuable customer.
> >
> > You (6/13/22, 4:54:51 PM PDT): Great, thanks.
> >
>
> Seems weird that they have a special department for old people, but they
> sent me a download link and license for Acrobat X so I'm in good shape.
>
> On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 2:13 PM Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
>
> > Not true. It was working fine on this PC for four years. That's no excuse
> > for invalidating the license anyway.
> >
> > On Thu, Nov 11, 2021, 2:05 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> >> ... the
> >> software won't work on new hardware/software.
> >>
> >> If you need to create PDFs, forms, have shared reviews, etc., you'll
> >> either
> >> have to subscribe to Acrobat or find another product.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Nov 11, 2021 at 2:41 PM Robert Lauriston 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > This is for Acrobat Standard 8.0 but I figure the issue's the same as
> >> > for FrameMaker.
> >> >
> >> > I've had this on my Windows 7 (now 10) system for four years without
> >> > trouble. A few weeks ago I installed Acrobat Reader because some
> >> > downloaded PDFs are not compatible. Today I got an activation dialog
> >> > that seems to be unable to connect to the expected server. The phone
> >> > number provided as an alternative (866 772 3623) seems to be dead.
> >> >
> >> > How do I deal with this?
> >> > ___
> >> >
> >> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >> >
> >> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> >> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> >> > Archives located at
> >> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> >> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> >> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> >> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Lin Sims
> >> 

Re: [Framers] Including a non-breaking hyphen in a variable

[Peter Gold]

I  think that Lynne Price might be able to correct me, if I’m way off on
this, but IIRC the original creators of FM were more language-oriented
rather than code-oriented. That is, they were working to make it possible
to use the emerging computational technologies to serve language users –
writers, researchers, documentation and information creators and
retrievers. "Typing in dialog boxes" seemed strange to me when I first
encountered it. I figured out that the engineers must have had to deal with
the special conditions that applied to "special" characters typed within in
the dialog box environment that were different from the conditions that
applied to "special" characters entered in document text. The explanation
in the topic title is simply accurate, but it's not useful writers whose
interest is about managing the demands of language, rather than those of
programming.

Like the proverbial vaudeville dog who stood on hind legs, sang
(hideously), and accompanied itself on the piano, the miracle was that FM
could do all the things it could early-on, out-of-the-box c. 1989, at all!

InDesign, for all its savvy and sophisticated text-manipulation ability,
solves the problem this way: "Adding too much text to a variable may cause
overset or compressed text. Variable text does not break across lines."
Hmmm…?!

On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 3:57 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> It's \+
>
> If you download this file, it's a bunch of keyboard shortcuts, including a
> number for how to enter weird things like non-breaking spaces and hyphens
> in fields. Feel free to adapt it to your own use.
>
> https://www.frameusers.com/uploads/2016/08/ShortcutInfo.zip
>
> On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 8:43 PM Peter Gold 
> wrote:
>
> > The more I dig into long-unused memory to look for what I used to know
> > about FM, the less I find, because there's too much dust and rust in the
> > way. Instead, I try a Web search, and find how true it is that "nothing
> > every dies on the internet." Have you tried something like "framemaker
> > non-breaking hyphen in variable"? There's a ton of results. At least a
> few
> > might be correct.
> >
> > On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 6:41 PM Craig, Alison GLI/CA <
> > acr...@greenlightinnovation.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Windows 10
> > > FrameMaker subscription (fully updated).
> > >
> > > We use a project number format to identify our custom projects (eg,
> > > G19-6820, H21-2500, etc).
> > >
> > > I always turn the project numbers into variables but I can't figure out
> > to
> > > make the hyphen into a non-breaking version when I create the variable.
> > >
> > > I know it has something to do with a backslash (\), but I'm not sure
> what
> > > else is involved.
> > >
> > >
> > > Alison
> > > Technical Writer, Engineering, Greenlight Innovation
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > > Archives located at
> > > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> > >
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Including a non-breaking hyphen in a variable

[Peter Gold]

I would never have looked for "Typing in dialog boxes".

This is about the difference between a program designer or engineer, and
authors who use the language that the program is designed to create and
publish content. There's always room to improve product technical docs,
right? That's what keeps the jobs alive, until perfect Artificial
Intelligence becomes Real Intelligence.

It's always interesting to learn how things evolve over time. Especially
"life's persistent questions," and FrameMaker users'!

On Thu, May 12, 2022, 11:39 AM Craig, Alison GLI/CA <
acr...@greenlightinnovation.com> wrote:

> I worked in Archives in my misspent youth, creating archival entries for
> new collections. A side effect was learning to create great queries that
> have stood me in good stead since the internet "came along".
>
> A big exception is trying to find a specific way to do something in Frame,
> either on the web or in the manual.
>
> I would never have looked for "Typing in dialog boxes".
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Alison
>
>
> 
>
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Re: [Framers] Including a non-breaking hyphen in a variable

[Peter Gold]

The more I dig into long-unused memory to look for what I used to know
about FM, the less I find, because there's too much dust and rust in the
way. Instead, I try a Web search, and find how true it is that "nothing
every dies on the internet." Have you tried something like "framemaker
non-breaking hyphen in variable"? There's a ton of results. At least a few
might be correct.

On Wed, May 11, 2022 at 6:41 PM Craig, Alison GLI/CA <
acr...@greenlightinnovation.com> wrote:

> Windows 10
> FrameMaker subscription (fully updated).
>
> We use a project number format to identify our custom projects (eg,
> G19-6820, H21-2500, etc).
>
> I always turn the project numbers into variables but I can't figure out to
> make the hyphen into a non-breaking version when I create the variable.
>
> I know it has something to do with a backslash (\), but I'm not sure what
> else is involved.
>
>
> Alison
> Technical Writer, Engineering, Greenlight Innovation
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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Re: [Framers] Question about FrameMaker subscription less than a full year

[Peter Gold]

What would you recommend instead of FM, Robert?

Hcexres, other than your past experience and familiarity, why FM? Is there
employment demand in your area?


On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 5:57 PM Robert Lauriston  wrote:

> Academic discount aside, FrameMaker's pretty far down on the list of
> things I'd recommend a tech writing student study today.
>
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 1:37 PM  wrote:
> >
> > Hello! This is my first post to this list. I teach tech writers at Austin
> > Community College (Texas). For years I taught a course featuring
> FrameMaker;
> > Frame 11 was the last version I taught with--Adobe got too strict about
> > student access.
> >
> > I tried to download the 30-day free trial but screwed up not seeing the
> > second setup.exe. And so I downloaded again (that was wrong), installed.
> But
> > when I open Frame, I get an expired message.
> >
> > My main concern is helping students around the expense of learning
> Frame: a
> > 4-month subscription at $39 US would be right in there with current
> textbook
> > costs.
> ___
>
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>
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Re: [Framers] Finding an imported graphic of a specific type

[Peter Gold]

I couldn't quite remember the Generated List of…, but I was sure there was
something built into FM back in the early days. I’m guessing that the
poddy-thing just generates the list with a UI that reminds users of what's
available. Don't we love our FM community memory? It's very Jungian! :)

On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 1:57 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> If you open the Insets pod (FM 2019 and later, at least) and select All
> documents from the filter, it will list everything imported into your book
> and specify whether it's by reference or copy and which chapter it's
> located in.
>
> On Thu, Dec 30, 2021 at 10:59 AM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
> tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
>
> > They are imported and linked and they all are in specific folders;
> > however, I also needed to know what specific chapter each of the PNG’s
> was
> > in and I got that after generating the list because it gave me the figure
> > number for each graphic and the figure number indicated the chapter.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
> >
> > > On Dec 29, 2021, at 10:43 PM, Caroline Tabach <
> caroline.tab...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Are they imported and not linked?
> > >
> > >
> > > If you had kept all the sources in a specific folder you could check
> > there
> > >
> > > Caroline Tabach
> > >
> > >> On Wed, 29 Dec 2021, 23:49 ,  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi All,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I won't bore you w/ all the reasons why, but in a guide that I am
> > currently
> > >> writing, I need to be able to find all the imported graphics that are
> a
> > >> PNG.
> > >> I know how to find all the imported graphics by searching for a marker
> > >> type,
> > >> but that obviously gives me all types of imported graphics, regardless
> > of
> > >> the format (and I have PDFs and PNGs), and I need to specifically
> search
> > >> only for PNGs and there are HUNDREDS of graphics in this guide.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What am I missing or is this even possible?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> TIA,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> TVB
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Tammy Van Boening
> > >>
> > >> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> > >>
> > >> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >>
> > >> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >>
> > >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > >> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > >> Archives located at
> > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > >> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > >> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > >> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> > >>
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
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> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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>
>
>
> --
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> ___
>
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>
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Re: [Framers] TOC issue

[Peter Gold]

Are you saying that we are like the answer to the crossword clue "people
who date themselves?" namely, introverts! I love English; it's so precise.
:)

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 7:50 PM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

> OK so yeah we’re really dating ourselves here on this list. The last
> release that Chris had for the ToC Breaker . . . Drumroll please.  It was
> FrameMaker 11 - yep, you read that right.
>
> Anyway I’ve already reached out to Rick Quatro and have popped another
> idea in his head for another script.
>
> Thank you everyone once again!
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
>
> > On Dec 17, 2021, at 3:21 PM, tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
> tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, that is the name that I remember!
> > Thank you!!!
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
> >
> >> On Dec 17, 2021, at 3:18 PM, Peter Gold 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Cudspan's "tocbreaker" might be the magic tool. Try a web search.
> >>
> >>>> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:06 PM Heiko Haida 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If you prepare a title text with some nonbreaking spaces (that do not
> >>> bother in the place where the title is) according to your idea how this
> >>> should look like in the TOC, the text then will always keep together in
> >>> the TOC when regenerated.
> >>> This may help, or at least may help for most of the lines in the TOC.
> >>>
> >>> Of course, this is not such a good idea if the text has to be
> translated
> >>> to other languages where the line breaks have to be set differently.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards --- Tino H. Haida, Berlin
> >>>
> >>> tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com:
> >>>
> >>>> OK, Rick's script saved my bacon yet again, and while I am on a roll,
> I
> >>>> am gonna' get greedy and ask if someone can refresh the fuzzy recesses
> >>>> of my aging mind.
> >>>>
> >>>> Right now, when I have lines that don't wrap correctly in my TOC
> (based
> >>>> on the length of the text for a tag), I am going through and manually
> >>>> adding the needed breaks, but of course, this is tedious work and I
> >>>> loathe doing it every time I produce a final book because either I
> >>>> forget to do it or I miss a line or two.
> >>>>
> >>>> Wasn't there a script "out there somewhere?" that magically did this
> >>>> for you?
> >>>>
> >>>> If anyone remembers this script and can point me in the right
> direction
> >>>> (other than off a cliff which is what I feel like doing right now), I
> >>>> would most appreciate it.
> >>>>
> >>>> TIA,
> >>>>
> >>>> TVB
> >>>>
> >>>> Tammy Van Boening
> >>>> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> >>>> www.spectrumwritingllc.com [1]
> >>>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: Framers  >>>> bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> >>>> Behalf Of Peter Gold
> >>>> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 11:47 AM
> >>>> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Framers] TOC issue
> >>>>
> >>>> Great news! Thanks to Rick!
> >>>>
> >>>> This is definitely a bug, or at least a documentation omission, AKA
> >>>> bug,  that
> >>>> needs formal reporting, Someone please report it. Thanks.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:31 PM 
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Everyone,
> >>>>
> >>>> OK, as someone asked offlist, yes, some of these equation titles do
> >>>> contain non-alphanumeric characters. .. (Their response to my: I seem
> >>>> to recall that I ran up against a similar problem about 15 years ago
> >>>> and ultimately tracked it down to prohibited (but not documented)
> >>>> punctuation characters in the headings that weren't appearing in the
> >>>> ToC).
> >>>>
> >>>> Other ones do contain a character formatting change in the middle of
> >>>&

Re: [Framers] TOC issue

[Peter Gold]

Cudspan's "tocbreaker" might be the magic tool. Try a web search.

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 4:06 PM Heiko Haida  wrote:

>
>
> If you prepare a title text with some nonbreaking spaces (that do not
> bother in the place where the title is) according to your idea how this
> should look like in the TOC, the text then will always keep together in
> the TOC when regenerated.
> This may help, or at least may help for most of the lines in the TOC.
>
> Of course, this is not such a good idea if the text has to be translated
> to other languages where the line breaks have to be set differently.
>
> Best regards --- Tino H. Haida, Berlin
>
> tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com:
>
> > OK, Rick's script saved my bacon yet again, and while I am on a roll, I
> > am gonna' get greedy and ask if someone can refresh the fuzzy recesses
> > of my aging mind.
> >
> > Right now, when I have lines that don't wrap correctly in my TOC (based
> > on the length of the text for a tag), I am going through and manually
> > adding the needed breaks, but of course, this is tedious work and I
> > loathe doing it every time I produce a final book because either I
> > forget to do it or I miss a line or two.
> >
> > Wasn't there a script "out there somewhere?" that magically did this
> > for you?
> >
> > If anyone remembers this script and can point me in the right direction
> > (other than off a cliff which is what I feel like doing right now), I
> > would most appreciate it.
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > TVB
> >
> > Tammy Van Boening
> > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> > www.spectrumwritingllc.com [1]
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> > Behalf Of Peter Gold
> > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 11:47 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] TOC issue
> >
> > Great news! Thanks to Rick!
> >
> > This is definitely a bug, or at least a documentation omission, AKA
> > bug,  that
> > needs formal reporting, Someone please report it. Thanks.
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:31 PM  wrote:
> >
> > Hi Everyone,
> >
> > OK, as someone asked offlist, yes, some of these equation titles do
> > contain non-alphanumeric characters. .. (Their response to my: I seem
> > to recall that I ran up against a similar problem about 15 years ago
> > and ultimately tracked it down to prohibited (but not documented)
> > punctuation characters in the headings that weren't appearing in the
> > ToC).
> >
> > Other ones do contain a character formatting change in the middle of
> > the link (not at the beginning as Craig asked), so I obviously was
> > taught incorrectly or remember incorrectly that as long as the
> > character didn't begin the link, all was OK.
> >
> > Long story short - Rick Quatro is going to revamp a script that will
> > solve the issue and save the day yet again for another FM user
> > (especially me), and I can stop banging my head on the wall - about
> > this little gem anyway.
> > Thank you everyone for your responses. Every single time that I post
> > to this list, I not only get the answer that I need but I also learn
> > so many little tidbits and extra gems of knowledge about FM that can
> > come only from tribal knowledge and everyone's years of experience.
> >
> > Have safe, healthy, and happy holidays.
> >
> > TVB
> >
> > Tammy Van Boening
> > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> > www.spectrumwritingllc.com [1]
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> > Behalf Of Peter Gold
> > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 10:26 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] TOC issue
> >
> > Have you tried duplicating, by copying and pasting the problem
> > paragraphs, to see if they retain the problem gremlins? If they don't,
> > try
> > deleting or; hiding the bad ones one with a condition.
> >
> > Perhaps the problem material falls on some kind of border or limit.
> > Have you tried creating a placeholder chapter ahead of the book
> > materials,
> > then regenerating? If that fixes it, resett the numberings or hide
> > it, to ignore the placeholder, and regen.
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 10:55 AM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <

Re: [Framers] TOC issue

[Peter Gold]

Great news! Thanks to Rick!

This is definitely a bug, or at least a documentation omission, AKA bug,
 that needs formal reporting,
Someone please report it. Thanks.

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 12:31 PM  wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
>
> OK, as someone asked offlist, yes, some of these equation titles do
> contain non-alphanumeric characters. .. (Their response to my: I seem to
> recall that I ran up against a similar problem about 15 years ago and
> ultimately tracked it down to prohibited (but not documented) punctuation
> characters in the headings that weren't appearing in the ToC).
>
> Other ones do contain a character formatting change in the middle of the
> link (not at the beginning as Craig asked), so I obviously was taught
> incorrectly or remember incorrectly that as long as the character didn't
> begin the link, all was OK.
>
> Long story short - Rick Quatro is going to revamp a script that will solve
> the issue and save the day yet again for another FM user (especially me),
> and I can stop banging my head on the wall - about this little gem anyway.
>
> Thank you everyone for your responses. Every single time that I post to
> this list, I not only get the answer that I need but I also learn so many
> little tidbits and extra gems of knowledge about FM that can come only from
> tribal knowledge and everyone's years of experience.
>
> Have safe, healthy, and happy holidays.
>
> TVB
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> > Behalf Of Peter Gold
> > Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 10:26 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] TOC issue
> >
> > Have you tried duplicating, by copying and pasting the problem
> paragraphs,
> > to see if they retain the problem gremlins? If they don't, try deleting
> or;
> > hiding the bad ones one with a condition.
> >
> > Perhaps the problem material falls on some kind of border or limit. Have
> you
> > tried creating a placeholder chapter ahead of the book materials, then
> > regenerating? If that fixes it, resett the numberings or hide it, to
> ignore the
> > placeholder, and regen.
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 10:55 AM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
> > tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
> >
> > > 
> > >
> > > What I NEED to do is just punt this project. . .
> > > And yes I agree with you I should not have to do that but any port in
> > > a storm. . .
> > >
> > > Rick Quatro wants to look at the TOC and he always rides to my rescue
> > > in these frustrating situations, so I’m waiting to hear back from him,
> > > and learn what the obvious problem it is. . .
> > >
> > > Well, obvious to him (and probably everybody else at this point I’m so
> > > frustrated) but not to me!
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
> > >
> > > > On Dec 17, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Lise Bible 
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Tammy,
> > > > I have no Frame advice to offer (I am sure you've tried everything I
> > > would
> > > > have tried, and I'd be equally frustrated in your situation), but as
> > > > a workaround, can you manually create these links in Acrobat after
> > > > the
> > > fact?
> > > > To be clear, you shouldn't HAVE to do this, but in a pinch...
> > > >
> > > > Good luck!
> > > > -Lise
> > > >
> > > >> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 9:36 AM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
> > > >> tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hi Craig,
> > > >>
> > > >> No there is no difference in the character formatting between these
> > > >> five entries and any of the other same type of entries in the TOC.
> > > >>
> > > >> All the EquationCaption  paragraph tags are formatted identically
> > > without
> > > >> any overrides or additional character settings.
> > > >>
> > > >> But if you have any other ideas or thoughts I would definitely
> > > >> welcome them.
> > > >>
> > > >> Thank you!
> > > >>
> > > >> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
>

Re: [Framers] TOC issue

[Peter Gold]

Have you tried duplicating, by copying and pasting the problem paragraphs,
to see if they retain the problem gremlins? If they don't, try deleting or;
hiding the bad ones one with a condition.

Perhaps the problem material falls on some kind of border or limit. Have
you tried creating a placeholder chapter ahead of the book materials, then
regenerating? If that fixes it, resett the numberings or hide it, to ignore
the placeholder, and regen.

On Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 10:55 AM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

> 
>
> What I NEED to do is just punt this project. . .
> And yes I agree with you I should not have to do that but any port in a
> storm. . .
>
> Rick Quatro wants to look at the TOC and he always rides to my rescue in
> these frustrating situations, so I’m waiting to hear back from him, and
> learn what the obvious problem it is. . .
>
> Well, obvious to him (and probably everybody else at this point I’m so
> frustrated) but not to me!
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
>
> > On Dec 17, 2021, at 9:11 AM, Lise Bible  wrote:
> >
> > Tammy,
> > I have no Frame advice to offer (I am sure you've tried everything I
> would
> > have tried, and I'd be equally frustrated in your situation), but as a
> > workaround, can you manually create these links in Acrobat after the
> fact?
> > To be clear, you shouldn't HAVE to do this, but in a pinch...
> >
> > Good luck!
> > -Lise
> >
> >> On Fri, Dec 17, 2021 at 9:36 AM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
> >> tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi Craig,
> >>
> >> No there is no difference in the character formatting between these five
> >> entries and any of the other same type of entries in the TOC.
> >>
> >> All the EquationCaption  paragraph tags are formatted identically
> without
> >> any overrides or additional character settings.
> >>
> >> But if you have any other ideas or thoughts I would definitely welcome
> >> them.
> >>
> >> Thank you!
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone. Blame Steve Jobs for any typos.
> >>
>  On Dec 17, 2021, at 8:23 AM, Craig Ede  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Is there any kind of character formatting at the beginning of these 5
> >> lines being used for the TOC?
> >>>
> >>> Craig Ed
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> From: Framers  hotmail@lists.frameusers.com>
> >> on behalf of tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com <
> >> tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com>
> >>> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2021 8:48 AM
> >>> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
> >>> Subject: [Framers] TOC issue
> >>>
> >>> OK,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Me again, but I have done everything that I can think of doing to solve
> >> this
> >>> issue BEFORE I posted and I am at a loss.  I have a book for which I am
> >>> generating a TOC. I have selected the necessary paragraph tags for the
> >> TOC
> >>> and generated. All the entries in the TOC are functioning as hyperlinks
> >> as
> >>> they should with the exception of 5 specific entries. They are deader
> >> than a
> >>> door nail. The first TOC entry above this set of five entries is an
> >> active
> >>> hyperlink and the first TOC entry below this group of 5 is also an
> active
> >>> hyperlink.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have done the following:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 1.  Deleted this specific text in the book and re-entered it.
> >>> 2.  Confirmed that there is no override to any of these tags - the
> >> text
> >>> is EquationCaption w/out any overrides (No asterisk is showing for
> them.)
> >>> 3.  Turned on all conditional text settings and generated the book
> to
> >>> check and see if there was something buried in the hidden text that was
> >>> causing the issue, but even w/ all the conditions turned on, I still
> have
> >>> the issue.
> >>> 4.  Added the same kind of tag (an Equation Caption) directly above
> >> and
> >>> directly below the section of five that are giving me fits and
> >> regenerated
> >>> and the tag above and below are indeed hyperlinks but these 5 remain
> >>> stubbornly dead.
> >>> 5.  All the equations are PDFs in this book, so I assumed that
> maybe
> >>> there was a graphic issue, so I deleted the five relevant graphics and
> >>> regenerated and again, the links are still dead.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am at a loss at this point. It is just this one small section in an
> >>> otherwise large and graphic-laden manual, so there's nothing common
> about
> >>> this issue that I can compare to other sections in this book as no
> other
> >>> sections are giving me this problem.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I would welcome any and all suggestions, insight, etc.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> TVB
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Tammy Van Boening
> >>>
> >>> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> >>>
> >>> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>>

Re: [Framers] Frame vs InDesign

[Peter Gold]

Hi, David!

Great FM and ID user-community resource in your FM <-> ID <-> QXP feature
comparison chart! (Thanks for the attribution credit.)

Suggestions for updates:

I think there's more scripting support available for ID than those in the
table.
ID text frames offer auto-resize properties.
ID editable text separate stroke and fill properties.
ID text can convert to outlines.

Other:

IIRC, it's possible to create ID bulleted or numbered paragraph styles that
use graphics instead of glyphs. I’m rusty on this.



On Fri, Nov 19, 2021 at 3:30 PM  wrote:

> I haven't updated this info in ages, but take a look at this PDF:
>  >.
> Some of the info may be out of date, but a lot of the features are
> basically
> the same.
>
> I specialize in training on both programs, so here is my 2 cents...
>
>   *   Most importantly: Can InDesign generate good PDF files, with working
> links?
> Yes
>
>   *   Is InDesign good for large documents (100-160 pages), with TOCs, and
> lots of internal and external cross-references?
> Yes (100-160 is not really considered a large document by either program)
>
>   *   Can I transfer my existing paragraph and character styles from Frame
> to InDesign?
> Frame to RTF/Word to InDesign
> Or DTPtools.com conversion service
>
>   *   Can I import a Frame book into InDesign?
> No. (ID's book feature is functional but not match for Frame's; however,
> I've created 1000-page books in ID).
>
> Other notes
> Excellent HTML5 output can be had in ID with the In5 plugin (extra cost).
> ID's XML features are weak when compared to Frame.
>
> Dave Creamer
> IDEAS Training
>
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Re: [Framers] Frame vs InDesign

[Peter Gold]

Good suggestion, Robert!

However, dtptools' mif filter retains as much of the FM page layout as
possible, in addition to format names. Where FM format and object
properties aren't supported by ID, they are simulated to look as much alike
as possible. If content is reflowed in ID, the simulations crumble like the
sets SNL's classic *Star Trek* skit.

mif filter conversions require a per-page fee. Dtptools used to sell
licenses and also offered bulk-conversion services. It's worth checking
their current offerings.

On Thu, Nov 18, 2021 at 8:40 PM Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> It occurs to me that FrameMaker's Word export has reportedly been much
> improved in recent releases. InDesign's was always excellent, that's how
> most layout pros get the content they place in ID. So I'd install a free
> trial of ID and try FM > Word > ID.
>
>
> https://creativepro.com/retaining-important-formatting-when-importing-word-documents/
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Re: [Framers] Frame vs InDesign

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Frank!

Gillian's suggestion is great, but for the fact that it has been asked and
responded to often already. I suggest that you begin by searching for
"compare framemaker and indesign" on the Internet and on this forum as well
as Adobe's FrameMaker and Indesign forums, and Indesignsecrets and
indesigmagazine

I once had the brilliant idea to write "InDesign for FrameMaker Users"
training materials, but gave it up after a little research revealed that
the audience was a niche of a niche. I made a few responses to your
specific questions below, and added a note or two.

> On Nov 18, 2021, at 3:28 PM, Frank Ripp 
wrote:

> >
> > New management is pushing for the overall use of InDesign for marketing
> collateral and technical documentation at my company.
> > I'm a long time Frame user, producing a set of software documentation
> ranging from release notes, installation guides, API guides, and a 160-page
> user guide. All are delivered as PDF files.
> >
> > I've been asked to figure out whether or not InDesign will fit my
> documentation needs, and have many questions.
> >
> >
> >  *   Most importantly: Can InDesign generate good PDF files, with
> working links?
>

YES! If this is your only requirement, you're home free.

> >  *   Is InDesign good for large documents (100-160 pages), with TOCs,
> and lots of internal and external cross-references?
>

InDesign's long-tech-doc tools are nearly equal to FM.

>  *   Can I transfer my existing paragraph and character styles from Frame
> to InDesign?
>

Sort-of. Scripted export, or exporting to MS Word or RTF can probably
preserve most of your named formats names, but not properties not supported
by InDesign.

>  *   Can I import a Frame book into InDesign?
>

Yes, but not directly.

>
> > Has anyone out there successfully switched from Frame to Indesign?
>

Some of us stick with both. If you mean "converted publications from FM to
ID?" yes. If you mean "round-trip documents seamlessly and ongoing," not
exactly. If you mean "never went back to FM after migrating legacy docs to
ID?" not sure.

> > Is this a non-starter for the type of documents I produce?
>

If you mean converting or exporting content to DITA, ?ML, that's a problem.

> >
> > Any advice, thoughts or pointers are greatly appreciated!
>

dtptools.com's mif filter conversion is helpful, but the converted docs
employ crude implementations to emulate some of FM's unique features like
anchored frames, run-in paragraphs. I reviewed it in InDesign Magazine
around 2008. dtptools cross-reference tool is fabulous, smarter than FM's.
I reviewed it in 2007 IIRC for InDesign Magazine.

You can probably find or get Rick to write some custom scripts for some
conversion issues you encounter.


Briefly, if you love FrameMaker and are really good at using all its
long-doc features, you'll love the adjustment period to meeting challenges
of moving to InDesign.

(I used to live in Mountain View.)

HTH


>
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Frank Ripp
> > SR. Technical Writer
> > Pacific Biosciences
> > 1305 O'Brien Drive,
> > Menlo Park, CA 94025
> > (650) 521-8315
>



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Re: [Framers] Graphic Getting Cut Off

[Peter Gold]

On Fri, Nov 5, 2021, 2:08 PM cuc tu  wrote:

*When I change the para tag name of another format to TDS-H1, the graphic
gets cut off. TDS-H0, TDS-Hx and etc. work fine. (i.e., just changing the
tag name causes the problem)*

Is it possible that TDS-H1 properties are defined differently from TDS-H0
and TDS-Hx? Simply renaming a paragraph format should not change its
behavior.
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Re: [Framers] Graphic Getting Cut Off

[Peter Gold]

FM calculates space between paragraphs by honoring the larger of Space
Below and Space Above. If the cut-off occurs only when certain paragraph
formats precede the problematic Heading[#] perhaps the Space Below is the
cause.

Another possibility is that there's an invisible character in the first
line of the Heading paragraph with the graphic that's affecting the space,
baseline, or leading.

Oh, yeah, perhaps the paragraph property setting that constrains the
line-height setting to fixed (can't remember the exact name) is the issue.

Is it possible that the cloned paragraph format properties aren't exactly
alike?

And, finally, if the content was imported into FM from another application,
or from an FM document whose author wasn't meticulous about maintaining
formats, there may be sneaky sinister differences or overrides at work. It
is Halloween season, isn't it? ;)

On Wed, Nov 3, 2021 at 2:23 PM cuc tu  wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We have a mysterious graphic issue. We place a 10x7mm frame to house an
> Illustrator (AI) graphic at the beginning of a heading1 with the position
> at insertion point and -7pt above baseline. It's been this way for years
> without an issue, but now we save as a PDF file and the top half of the
> graphic is cut off.
>
> We have an identical heading that was spawned from heading1, named
> heading0. This exists for sole purpose of eliminating that heading from the
> TOC. If we copy the entire paragraph and then change the heading1 para
> format to heading0, the problem goes away (and vice-versa). We have deleted
> the heading1 format and respawned it from heading0, and the problem returns.
>
> I'm stumped.
>
> Thanks, C2
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Re: [Framers] Error Message Explanation

[Peter Gold]

Thanks for doing the research. This closes the open-ended mystery.

So, to continue using your FM v. 5.5.6 with new graphics, you could convert
them to gif.

On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, 9:12 PM Spencer Rugaber 
wrote:

> I just tried a non-GIMP .gif, and it worked. My best guess is that my
> version
> of FrameMaker is balking on any recent formats. It would still be nice to
> see/hear something official from Adobe.
>
> Spencer
> ---
>
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Re: [Framers] Error Message Explanation

[Peter Gold]

Artificial intelligence will never best herd intelligence! :)

Did gifs made by other apps succeed, or only those made by GIMP?


On Sun, Oct 31, 2021, 12:04 PM Spencer Rugaber 
wrote:

> Thanks your collective help, I have finally been able to import and save
> the troublesome image file. The secret was to import into GIMP and
> export as .GIF. All other intermediate formats I tried (about twenty of
> them) failed. I also tried several other tools, including Preview and
> Mathematica, which also failed.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Spencer
> ---
>
>
> > --
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 18:52:39 +
> > From: Craig Ede 
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> >   
> > Subject: [Framers] Jpg import failure WAS Error Message Explanation
> > Message-ID:
> >   <
> bl1pr14mb509407c2426fb970ba1e07a4d5...@bl1pr14mb5094.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
> >
> > There must be an editor that writes out a generic jpg, no matter what
> kind of jpg is read into it. Thus my suggesting to use a variety of editors
> to open the file and saveAs jpg again. I would start with photoshop, an
> older version if you have one.
> >
> > Craig Ede
> >
> > 
> > ?snip?
> > 
> > It's probably possible to identify internal differences among different
> > versions of jpg files by opening them with an appropriate editor.
> > ?unsnip?
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Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 187, Issue 17

[Peter Gold]

It's probably possible to identify internal differences among different
versions of jpg files by opening them with an appropriate editor.

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 8:31 PM Robert Lauriston  wrote:

> There are various flavors of JPEG and TIFF, so the file extension
> doesn't tell you whether it's compatible. JPEG 2000 did not exist when
> FrameMaker 5.5.6 came out. I think PNG support came later.
>
> Try 16-bit BMP. Or 8-bit BMP, if you have software that can save it.
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 4:40 PM Spencer Rugaber
>  wrote:
> >
> > - I have tried .PNG and .TIFF plus JPEG-2000, which resulted in the same
> message.
> >
> > - I can successfully import some JPEG's but I don't understand how they
> differ from the
> > ones that fail.
> >
> > Any thoughts on what the error message might mean? Is there any way to
> ask Adobe?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Spencer
> > ---
> >
> > >
> > > Message: 2
> > > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 02:07:03 +
> > > From: Craig Ede 
> > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > >   
> > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Error Message Explanation (Robert Lauriston);
> > >   Framers Digest, Vol 187, Issue 16
> > > Message-ID:
> > >   <
> ch0pr14mb5089722bf04dc11d10f65649d5...@ch0pr14mb5089.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
> >
> > >
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> > >
> > > I would open and save the jpg in a number of graphics programs and see
> if one of them saves the jpg in a way that allows it to be imported. I've
> never had trouble importing jpgs in FrameMaker in 5.5.6 unless there was
> actually something wrong with the file (and I worked with that version a
> very long time). If it's failing with all jpgs, it's possible that
> something in your installation has been corrupted, so you might try a
> re-install.
> > >
> > > Craig Ede
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Subject: Digest Footer
> > >
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> > >
> > > End of Framers Digest, Vol 187, Issue 17
> > > 
> >
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Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 187, Issue 17

[Peter Gold]

Have you tried importing graphics that had been successfully imported into
older FM docs, into new FM docs? Success here could validate kind of source
graphic required by your current setup.

If you need an older jpg format, a graphic conversion app may work.

HTH

On Tue, Oct 26, 2021, 6:40 PM Spencer Rugaber 
wrote:

> - I have tried .PNG and .TIFF plus JPEG-2000, which resulted in the same
> message.
>
> - I can successfully import some JPEG's but I don't understand how they
> differ from the
> ones that fail.
>
> Any thoughts on what the error message might mean? Is there any way to ask
> Adobe?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Spencer
> ---
>
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 02:07:03 +
> > From: Craig Ede 
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> >   
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Error Message Explanation (Robert Lauriston);
> >   Framers Digest, Vol 187, Issue 16
> > Message-ID:
> >   <
> ch0pr14mb5089722bf04dc11d10f65649d5...@ch0pr14mb5089.namprd14.prod.outlook.com
> >
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I would open and save the jpg in a number of graphics programs and see
> if one of them saves the jpg in a way that allows it to be imported. I've
> never had trouble importing jpgs in FrameMaker in 5.5.6 unless there was
> actually something wrong with the file (and I worked with that version a
> very long time). If it's failing with all jpgs, it's possible that
> something in your installation has been corrupted, so you might try a
> re-install.
> >
> > Craig Ede
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
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Re: [Framers] Contents of Framers digest... Why so many of us feel the way we do....

[Peter Gold]

Business models evolve. One reason to charge via ongoing subscriptions is
to finance the increasing ongoing development cost of the incremental
releases needed to keep current with industry's advances.

Some of Adobe's Creative Cloud subscription products have been offered on
intermittent month-by-month plans. If this option still exists, it's one
way to make expensive tools affordable.

To quote a spokes-emu, "Only subscribe for when you need."

Agreed that better technical support for those stubborn and costly
productivity-killing issues would help to justify the user fees.

Reading the several recent stories of beyond-lip-service tech support in
the past makes a case for the value of this forum as a place to share
positive and negative Adobe product, service, and corporate experiences
with the community.

It would be great if there was a way to get Adobe people, who have the
clout to make things happen when problems are reported here, read these
forum posts, and get the stuff done!

On Wed, Oct 20, 2021, 12:11 PM Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> For software companies, one big plus for a subscription model is that
> they only need to support the latest version.
>
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Re: [Framers] FrameMaker 2020 vs 2019

[Peter Gold]

Are you saying that the translator used an as-yet unreleased version?
Possibly an NDA violation?

Is the secret download location a pre-release repository?

Shouldn't the translator return a client's project in the same release it
was submitted, or in MIF, to maintain compatibility?

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 12:28 PM  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
>
>
> I was using FM 2019 sporadically. I received files back from a translator
> in
> a version of FM I could not open. Notpad showed it was FM 16, which I found
> was 2020.
>
>
>
> I was never notified by Adobe about the new version, any upgrade, etc.,
> despite being subscribed. That was a bit annoying.
>
>
>
> Anyway, after a lengthy but successful support call, I was shown a secret
> URL where I could get this new version of FrameMaker, downloaded it, and
> installed it.
>
>
>
> The icon looks the same as FM 2019. The new version self-identifies as
> version 16, not 2020. I don't see any obvious changes off the bat. Anyone
> have any idea what the new changes to FM 2020 are, other than 2019 cannot
> open 2020 files?
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Sean
>
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Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe

[Peter Gold]

A good reason NOT to speed-read technically-dense material, is that one
tends to take humor seriously. For example, I'm imagining recalling retired
engineers refactoring original FM code into COBOL!  :)


Thanks for the image, Steve!

IIRC, the original proposals for FM were made by language-oriented folks
seeking ways to *process* *language* with computers, rather than engineers
looking for cool stuff to program.

Technical writing is a hybrid of  language and an underlying system to
revise and manipulate it. Those who are good at practicing it, can't help
but want it to continuously improve while serving its purpose, just as they
do.



On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 11:23 AM Steve Rickaby 
wrote:

At 16:55 -0600 12/10/21,  wrote:

>I can give details if interested, but I just wanted to chime in to the
>thread from a few weeks ago, where someone stated that they feel that Adobe
>hates their customers. . .

I think that was me.

Long time past, I took a great many textbooks directly to press using
FrameMaker and PDF as a pre-press format. Problems were few and solvable,
and the only time I had to have recourse to FrameMaker support was in 1997,
when an author, who had written his ms in Frame, had managed to create
massive equations that would not 'fold'. These jobs included more than one
using structure FrameMaker.

All that was in FrameMaker version 7. Judging by what I read here, things
don't seem to have improved much since Adobe hived FrameMaker off to India.

At 19:43 + 13/10/21, nuhDEEN wrote:

>However, the effort and expense to maintain the FM might be better spent
on developing a completely new underlying software design that seems to
work the same from a user's point-of-view

I tend to agree: all software eventually 'dies' as technology moves on.
Look at Interleaf, for example. But with the cost and effort required to
rewrite FrameMaker from scratch, including structure support, I don't see
it happening. In theory, though, it can be done incrementally, using code
refactoring.

There is a maybe bright light on the horizon for us old folk. I read that
Cobol programmers can command astronomical fees these days to keep
'essential' banking software alive. Just an idea... :-)

--
Steve
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Re: [Framers] Other tools

[Peter Gold]

Affinity Publisher lacks FM- and iD- technical-authoring tools, like
x-refs, hierarchical running H/Fs, multi-file books.

The Serif AP user forum reveals that footnotes were added after being
requested. This stirs optimism that other feature requests will be
fulfilled ... in due time.

Requests for FM table rows and footnotes that can split across text frame
boundaries likewise ... in due time.

Some features are essential to delivering projects. Some aren't.

The ability to meet deadlines and requirements rules one's choice of
professional tools ... in real time.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2021, 7:17 AM Shmuel Wolfson  wrote:

> Affinity looks great for magazines, but it currently lacks support for
> cross-references, so it's not an option for books IMHO. But it seems
> like it is a feature thta they want to add. See
>
> https://forum.affinity.serif.com/index.php?/topic/120048-cross-reference-support/page/2/=comments#comment-844902
>
> I'm not sure about online help. It seems to have a "web" option, but I
> couldn't find any videos about that option, so I can't tell if it would
> be an option for online help.
>
>
> On 14-Oct-21 2:00 PM, D B wrote:
> > Someone mentioned Affinity here, so I installed it.  It looks like it
> has a
> > lot of potential, but It was more than I needed right now so I didn't put
> > much effort into using it.
> >
> > Doug
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 2:49 AM Caroline Tabach <
> caroline.tab...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Someone said they hesitated to recommend Frame because of recent
> >> installation issues, so told a company to try something else.
> >>
> >> Can you tell me what it was?
> >>
> >> We need to put our docs online
> >>
> >> Caroline Tabach
> >> ___
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Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe

[Peter Gold]

AFAIK, people didn't learn FM, InterLeaf, or *roff, in college courses back
in the day, in the same way they took courses in graphics, illustration,
and design software. FM users are usually technical authors, AKA
"information developers." At a recent InDesign user group meeting, I asked
how many in the room were authoring content in ID, and who were receiving
content in Word or other text formats and inserting it into their layouts.
NO authors! So, this may be one reason that Adobe is willing to bide time
until gen-FM goes extinct. IBM blew their early computing opportunity when
their research estimated the market to be around six machines in the whole
world, and in plain-paper copying, because there was none there was no
interest among potential users who saw no need.

It's interesting to see the de-evolution of technical publishing. Software
like FM "advanced" the industry to where a single individual wore the hats
of many different professionals - typesetter, designer, editor, indexer,
bookmaker. Now, the industry is dividing back to the form in which the
content creators - authors, editors, and other language specialists, are
separating from the visual, digital, and technical specialists. Old hats
are new again.

I've been migrating my FM writing habits to ID, for personal projects and
sheer doggedness. It's possible, but unless I'm as off-kilter as IBM had
been back in the dawn of the age, it seems to be a niche of a niche, like a
beachcomber who makes tourist memorabilia from driftwood, shells, and
frosted glass bits. :)

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 3:17 PM  wrote:

> Yea, pretty much. . . I figured after the installation fiascos that
> started with the first attempt at the Technical Communication Suite (TCS,
> 2009 - remember that!), Adobe had to catch on fast about this issue, but
> apparently that has not been the case. . . it was horrible then and has
> stayed just as horrible now. . . at the time, I remember that I referred to
> TCS as "Totally Cr*ppy Software.)
>
> I was an early adopter, and learned fast NOT to be in the case of Adobe. .
> . that hosed my system so badly that I had to basically take it down to
> bare metal and set everything up from scratch again and I was not the only
> one who suffered such a fate. . .
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> > Behalf Of Peter Gold
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 1:34 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe
> > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
> >
> > Egad, Tammy! Are you saying, "At least it hasn't gotten worse?" :)
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 2:23 PM 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I just remember a conversation that I had with Dov many years ago when
> > > I was still attending conferences and even back then, I was lamenting
> > > about all that Adobe could do so wrong when it came to
> > > installing/reinstalling/uninstalling and Dov's comment to me was that
> > > a gentleman at the sister conference had commented to Dov "When in the
> > > H*LL is Adobe going to stop screwing up my systems!!!"
> > >
> > > Even after 20+ years of this, nothing has apparently changed and that
> > > is sad.
> > >
> > > TVB
> > >
> > >
> > > Tammy Van Boening
> > > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> > > www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Framers  > > > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> > > > Behalf Of A Craig
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:06 PM
> > > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software.
> > > > 
> > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe
> > > > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I wholeheartedly agree — except, sadly, I'm not semi-retired.
> > > >
> > > > Alison
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
> > > > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software."
> > > > 
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 12 October, 2021 15:55:26
> > > > Subject: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe
> >

Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe

[Peter Gold]

Egad, Tammy! Are you saying, "At least it hasn't gotten worse?" :)

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 2:23 PM  wrote:

> I just remember a conversation that I had with Dov many years ago when I
> was still attending conferences and even back then, I was lamenting about
> all that Adobe could do so wrong when it came to
> installing/reinstalling/uninstalling and Dov's comment to me was that a
> gentleman at the sister conference had commented to Dov "When in the H*LL
> is Adobe going to stop screwing up my systems!!!"
>
> Even after 20+ years of this, nothing has apparently changed and that is
> sad.
>
> TVB
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  > bounces+tammyvb=spectrumwritingllc@lists.frameusers.com> On
> > Behalf Of A Craig
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2021 12:06 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software.
> > 
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe
> > users "feel" the way we do about Adobe
> >
> >
> > I wholeheartedly agree — except, sadly, I'm not semi-retired.
> >
> > Alison
> >
> >
> > From: tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
> > To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software."
> > 
> > Sent: Tuesday, 12 October, 2021 15:55:26
> > Subject: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users
> > "feel" the way we do about Adobe
> >
> > Because every single solitary time that I have to uninstall/reinstall an
> Adobe
> > app., I hold my breath to see what kind of friggin' rabbit hole Adobe
> takes me
> > down and yep, it pulled a doozy on me this week, and thanks to Adobe, I
> lost
> > a good 2 hours' worth of work to get my system back up to 'snuff.
> >
> > I can give details if interested, but I just wanted to chime in to the
> thread
> > from a few weeks ago, where someone stated that they feel that Adobe
> > hates their customers. . . well, yea, I understand that feeling. I LOVE
> Adobe
> > products. . . I HATE installing/uninstalling them and I hate that Adobe
> > apparently does absolutely NO regression/system testing on their stuff
> > when it comes to this.
> >
> > Count me in as another very dissatisfied and p*ssed off Adobe customer
> > who is grateful to be semi-retired and not having to deal w/ this cr*p
> for
> > much longer.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tammy Van Boening
> > Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> > www.spectrumwritingllc.com _
> >
> >
> >  > ampaign=sig-e
> > mail_content=emailclient?utm_medium=email_source=link
> > _campaign=s
> > ig-email_content=emailclient> Scanned by McAfee
> >  > ampaign=sig-e
> > mail_content=emailclient?utm_medium=email_source=link
> > _campaign=s
> > ig-email_content=emailclient> and confirmed virus-free.
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Re: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users "feel" the way we do about Adobe

[Peter Gold]

In the old days, Adobe had beta-test (AKA pre-release) programs, for which
interested volunteers who represent a range of users from single-person
business to large enterprises with multiple seats, could apply. Is there a
FM beta-test program now? Is anyone on this list in the program? Of course
the idea was to subject the testers to all possible user-level torture
before the real users could stumble on bugs and other issues, and fix as
many problems as possible before general release. Customers would only have
sunshine, harmony, and uninterrupted workflows. I participated in FM,
Acrobat, and InDesign pre-release programs. Corporations change over
time, and so, too, their attitudes towards what comprises good
customer care.

InDesign's pre-release program is still active. Lots of test releases and
candidate releases are provided to testers until Quality Assurance
certifies the release.

I stopped using FM when my work didn't require it back around FM 7, and was
especially sad to find that Adobe abandoned Macintosh compatibility. I
upgraded a few times for nostalgia and personal writing, by using
Parallels. But, when my Windows version on Parallels no longer supported
newer FM versions, I froze my system, stuck in amber but still working. I
haven't had to endure the frustrating and productivity-sinking intricacies
of upgrade experiences like I've read about on this list.

IMO, the FM development team has the challenging and frustrating mission of
trying to keep an ancient technological design alive and reliable in
corporate environments. Just getting each new FM release to print "Hello,
World!" under each new Windows release on each new CPU architecture,
formatted for every new digital output format, is quite a miracle. However,
the effort and expense to maintain the FM might be better spent on
developing a completely new underlying software design that seems to work
the same from a user's point-of-view. You know, like nations of citizens
being able to commute daily in their all-electric cars, using the same
habits* they learned while driving petroleum-fueled autos. The investment
in a fundamentally re-engineered FM should pay off going forward, unless
investments in imagined AI succeed in being able to replace technical
publishing with autonomous-everything.

*Well, maybe self-driving vehicles might help reduce the consequence of
drivers impaired by ingested chemical substances and those generated
social-media overdoses.

My short answer for Stefan is "Because Adobe seems to have stopped paying
attention to FM users." I don't know if his question encompases users of
all Adobe software products, or just FM. The FM user community is probably
the oldest demographic. It's not about age, but years of use, and the kind
of use. Technical authors and publishers, thanks to FM, are content
creators, often also editors, subject matter experts, and document
manufacturers. This mixture of skill-sets doesn't exist to the same degree
among other Adobe creative software products. Users of filmmaking software
usually aren't also the writers of source material, or the adapters to
treatments, screenplays, scripts, or production-accounting software. Nor do
they write the documentation for the products used for these specialized
skill areas. So, if something that should be simple and trouble-free, like
installing an upgraded version of a professional software product that a
large enterprise customer's technical publishing depends upon, often turns
out to crash the customer's workflow, that's a good example of why
customers feel that way. Perhaps customers feel that the corporate view is
that this generation of user and product will retire soon?

Just my continually-deflating $0.02.

On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 1:06 PM A Craig  wrote:

>
> I wholeheartedly agree — except, sadly, I'm not semi-retired.
>
> Alison
>
>
> From: tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software." <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, 12 October, 2021 15:55:26
> Subject: [Framers] Stefan wanted to know why so many of us Adobe users
> "feel" the way we do about Adobe
>
> Because every single solitary time that I have to uninstall/reinstall an
> Adobe app., I hold my breath to see what kind of friggin' rabbit hole
> Adobe
> takes me down and yep, it pulled a doozy on me this week, and thanks to
> Adobe, I lost a good 2 hours' worth of work to get my system back up to
> 'snuff.
>
> I can give details if interested, but I just wanted to chime in to the
> thread from a few weeks ago, where someone stated that they feel that
> Adobe
> hates their customers. . . well, yea, I understand that feeling. I LOVE
> Adobe products. . . I HATE installing/uninstalling them and I hate that
> Adobe apparently does absolutely NO regression/system testing on their
> stuff
> when it comes to this.
>
> Count me in as another very dissatisfied and p*ssed off Adobe customer who
> is grateful to be semi-retired and not 

Re: [Framers] OT: Reference question

[Peter Gold]

Is it possible that this is the result of either an honest typesetting or
composing error, or an intentional strategy to avoid breaking footnote
matter across pages? Does the client have a preference?

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 4:16 PM  wrote:
OK, I know this is off-topic but because this list is filled with seasoned
veterans of technical writing, I know I can get my answer here. I am working
on the references for a client document, and have to sort through the
existing references that I was given and make sure it is accurate, current,
etc., and I came across a couple of instances of a reference within a
reference such as:



Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2005). "Physiologically based
pharmacokinetic modeling 1: predicting the tissue distribution of
moderate-to-strong bases." J Pharm Sci 94(6): 1259-76.



Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). "Rodgers T, Leahy D, Rowland M. 2005.
Physiologically based pharmacokinetic modeling 1: Predicting the tissue
distribution of moderate-to-strong bases. J Pharm Sci 94:1259-1276." J Pharm
Sci 96(11): 3151-3152.



You can see that the first reference is embedded/cited in the second
reference. This was not the way that I was taught a gazillion years ago to
cite an embedded reference. Basically, if the content of the embedded
reference was standalone in a new reference, regardless of the source, then
the new reference was all that was cited, for example:



Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). Physiologically based pharmacokinetic
modeling 1: Predicting the tissue distribution of moderate-to-strong bases.
J Pharm Sci 96(11): 3151-3152.



I looked at these papers and the content was standalone in the second
reference and it cited the first reference for the content, but because the
content was standalone in the second reference, I should cite only the
second reference where appropriate. (God, does that even make sense. . . I
am thinking of the Friends episode, "The One Where Everybody Finds Out," and
they don't know that we know that they know and Joey loses his mind.)



I just need some advice from some seasoned writers about how to handle this
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Re: [Framers] OT: Reference question

[Peter Gold]

Just cite the "Friends" episode and provide a link to it? :)


On Tue, Sep 28, 2021, 4:16 PM  wrote:

> OK, I know this is off-topic but because this list is filled with seasoned
> veterans of technical writing, I know I can get my answer here. I am
> working
> on the references for a client document, and have to sort through the
> existing references that I was given and make sure it is accurate, current,
> etc., and I came across a couple of instances of a reference within a
> reference such as:
>
>
>
> Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2005). "Physiologically based
> pharmacokinetic modeling 1: predicting the tissue distribution of
> moderate-to-strong bases." J Pharm Sci 94(6): 1259-76.
>
>
>
> Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). "Rodgers T, Leahy D, Rowland M.
> 2005.
> Physiologically based pharmacokinetic modeling 1: Predicting the tissue
> distribution of moderate-to-strong bases. J Pharm Sci 94:1259-1276." J
> Pharm
> Sci 96(11): 3151-3152.
>
>
>
> You can see that the first reference is embedded/cited in the second
> reference. This was not the way that I was taught a gazillion years ago to
> cite an embedded reference. Basically, if the content of the embedded
> reference was standalone in a new reference, regardless of the source, then
> the new reference was all that was cited, for example:
>
>
>
> Rodgers, T., Leahy, D., et al. (2007). Physiologically based
> pharmacokinetic
> modeling 1: Predicting the tissue distribution of moderate-to-strong bases.
> J Pharm Sci 96(11): 3151-3152.
>
>
>
> I looked at these papers and the content was standalone in the second
> reference and it cited the first reference for the content, but because the
> content was standalone in the second reference, I should cite only the
> second reference where appropriate. (God, does that even make sense. . . I
> am thinking of the Friends episode, "The One Where Everybody Finds Out,"
> and
> they don't know that we know that they know and Joey loses his mind.)
>
>
>
> I just need some advice from some seasoned writers about how to handle
> this.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> TVB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   _
>
>
> <
> https://home.mcafee.com/utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-e
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Re: [Framers] New Adobe Profiles - Business, Personal

[Peter Gold]

Has anyone posted this to an Adobe bug list and brought it up with
tech/customer support? Even if this is "as designed" it's a buggy design
decision that needs to be revisited and remedied. On the surface, it seems
that it wasn't sufficiently user-tested before it was implemented.

On Thu, Sep 23, 2021, 3:40 PM  wrote:

> Well, this was a nail in the coffin for me so to speak . .. not directly
> for
> me but for one of my clients when recommending the proper tools to use for
> a
> specific product line of theirs. They too would need to use Framemaker and
> Photoshop and/or Illustrator side by side and this would absolutely be a no
> go for them. Bluntly, how could have Adobe made such a blunder? It reeks of
> amateur hour. So, I just finished the project proposal that recommended
> another set of tools in their place. I dunno' if they will go for it, but
> here's me hoping, because there were DEFINITE advantages to the Framemaker
> approach that cannot be easily fulfilled w/ the other tool that I had to
> recommend and Adobe loses yet another subscription customer and the
> corresponding revenue. I am glad that I am semi-retired and can stop
> dealing
> w/ these kinda issues soon. TVB Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at
> spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com Scanned by McAfee
> and
> confirmed virus-free. Find out more here: https://bit.ly/2zCJMrO
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Importing table formats into chapters in a book

[Peter Gold]

Umm... Save and close all files, close and restart FM, maybe?

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021, 5:26 PM  wrote:

> In Chapter 1 in my book, I have established the 8 different table formats
> that I need to properly document all the content in the book. I have every
> paragraph tag set up that I need, every graphic on my reference page, every
> table format defined by name, etc. and I have confirmed ad nauseum that
> when
> I click on a location on a page where I want a table to be inserted, and
> then click Table > Insert Table and then select the Table Format that I
> want
> and click Insert, I get the expected table in Chapter 1.
>
>
>
> So, I  then did the following: selected all the chapters in the book that
> which I want to import the tables (I did not select Chapter 1), and then
> using Rick's awesome Import Formats Special tool, I select Paragraph
> Formats, Reference Pages, and Table Formats and click Import, and select
> Chapter 1 as the Import From File option but.. . . no matter how many times
> I do this, I cannot get my table formats to be imported properly. In a
> chapter into which I have supposedly imported these table formats, I click
> Table > Insert Table and then select the Table Format that I want insert
> and
> all I get is Frame's generic table (a Format A or Format B) no matter what
> table format I have selected. I have confirmed that the necessary paragraph
> tags and reference pages have been imported into all the chapters, and the
> yes, the table names are showing up in the Insert Table dialog box, but for
> the life of me, I can't get them to be inserted as expected.
>
>
>
> I give. . . . I have way too many chapters to manually set up these 8
> different formats individually (and yea, I know how to do that, but it
> shouldn't be necessary). . . what am I doing wrong? What step am I missing?
>
>
>
> TIA,
>
>
>
> TVB
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
>
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
>
>
>
>   _
>
>
> <
> https://home.mcafee.com/utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-e
>
> mail_content=emailclient?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=s
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>  Scanned by McAfee
> <
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>
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> >
> and confirmed virus-free.
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Re: [Framers] Maker.ini - Language Setting Question

[Peter Gold]

If the offer of a refreshment treat of the IT tech's choice, doesn't earn
you the favor of gift copies of the old ini files, try creatively searching
Google.

There are some good FM resources in the larger world.

It would help the IT tech immensely if you provide them the full ini file
paths.

HTH

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, 3:44 PM Craig, Alison GLI/CA <
acr...@greenlightinnovation.com> wrote:

> That would be great...
>
> But they are so swamped with issues that I won't ask (the changeover has
> been massive).
>
>
>
> Alison Craig
> Technical Writer, Engineering, Greenlight Innovation
> T  +1 604 676 4000, Ext 160 F  +1 604 676 4111 W
> greenlightinnovation.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  greenlightinnovation....@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Peter Gold
> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 12:16 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Maker.ini - Language Setting Question
>
> Perhaps IT has a backup of the previous image?
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, 12:54 PM A Craig  wrote:
>
> >
> > Win 10
> > FrameMaker: Monthly subscription
> >
> >
> > During a recent (massive) IT update, all our computers were re-imaged.
> > Unfortunately, I forgot to grab a copy of maker.ini for use after the
> "big
> > change".
> >
> > Also unfortunately, I cannot remember the exact wording to reset the
> > maker.ini language to Canadian English from "USEnglish" (see below). I've
> > tried a couple of things but I'm getting a message that says:
> >
> > "FrameMaker cannot initialize its dictionaries. Either the
> > LanguageDir entry specified in the initialization file is missing
> > or incorrect, or the files in the LanguageDir are missing or
> > currupted,"
> >
> >
> > Back when I installed FrameMaker this past spring, I know I edited
> > maker.ini to use Canadian English and it worked just fine.
> >
> > What am I doing wrong?
> >
> > Alison
> >
> >
> >
> > [Frame]
> > ;- Generic information
> > -
> > Language=USEnglish
> > ___
> >
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Re: [Framers] Maker.ini - Language Setting Question

[Peter Gold]

Perhaps IT has a backup of the previous image?

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021, 12:54 PM A Craig  wrote:

>
> Win 10
> FrameMaker: Monthly subscription
>
>
> During a recent (massive) IT update, all our computers were re-imaged.
> Unfortunately, I forgot to grab a copy of maker.ini for use after the "big
> change".
>
> Also unfortunately, I cannot remember the exact wording to reset the
> maker.ini language to Canadian English from "USEnglish" (see below). I've
> tried a couple of things but I'm getting a message that says:
>
> "FrameMaker cannot initialize its dictionaries. Either the
> LanguageDir entry specified in the initialization file is missing
> or incorrect, or the files in the LanguageDir are missing or
> currupted,"
>
>
> Back when I installed FrameMaker this past spring, I know I edited
> maker.ini to use Canadian English and it worked just fine.
>
> What am I doing wrong?
>
> Alison
>
>
>
> [Frame]
> ;- Generic information
> -
> Language=USEnglish
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Table Style: Including a Minimum Row Height

[Peter Gold]

Maybe  Silicon Prairie can provide certifications of some kind that would
be useful to your IT folks.

OTOH, consider saving correctly-formatted tables in a reference library
document, or on a reference page, where you can copy them from.

On Mon, Aug 30, 2021, 3:17 PM A Craig  wrote:

>
> I'd love to use several Silicon Prairie plug-ins, but my request is stuck
> with International IT where they have to assess the plug-ins for security
> risks.
>
> It's already been there at least 4 months and is likely to take several
> more to get an answer.
>
> Fingers crossed.
>
> Alison
>
>
> From: "Lin Sims" 
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software." <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Sent: Monday, 30 August, 2021 11:40:28
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table Style: Including a Minimum Row Height
>
> 
>
> Nope. There's no place on the table designer to do that, and when I
> changed
> the row heights on a table and updated the style, it still came in with
> the
> standard 0/14 for minimum and maximum.
>
> I've found the Autotext plugin from Silicon Prairie to be a great tool for
> things like table formats I use all the time. It's pretty cheap and worth
> the effort of setting up.
>
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2021 at 2:29 PM A Craig  wrote:
>
> >
> > Is there a way to set the minimum Row Height in a Table style?
> >
> > Every time I add a table using my "General" style (and I have lots of
> > them), I have to manually set the minimum Row Height to 5.5.
> >
> > Is there a way to automate this setting by somehow including it in the
> > Table style?
> >
> > Alison
> > ___
> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
> --
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Re: [Framers] Table and Figure Numbering

[Peter Gold]

You're absolutely correct! Except that tables and figures aren't numbered!
The paragraphs that are used by tables as their titles, have numbering
properties. Figures have no numbering properties, but the paragraphs in
which figure frames are anchored do have those properties.

So, for all Vulcans, and others who share Spock-ian mindsets, as I do, it
makes perfect logical sense: If you view a FM document's text flow as a
family tree, a genome, a stream of paragraphs whose formats have many
properties that are shared among the relatives and descendents, that
comprise the document's behaviors, it makes sense.

Until I started responding to your raising the issue this way, I never paid
attention to why FM made sense to me over all these years. Thanks for the
inspiration for me to clarify explicitly what I've just been doing
intuitively for so long. Really! Of course, now, if I stay consciously
aware of all this, it could be paralyzing when I try to write, like looking
down while on a tightrope. ;)



On Thu, Aug 26, 2021 at 1:39 PM Craig, Alison GLI/CA <
acr...@greenlightinnovation.com> wrote:

> Thanks Lynne.
>
> It would never have occurred to me that Paragraph numbering controlled
> sequential Table/Figure numbering.
>
> Alison
>
>
> Alison Craig
> Technical Writer, Engineering, Greenlight Innovation
> ===
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers  greenlightinnovation@lists.frameusers.com> On Behalf Of Lynne A. Price
> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 11:10 AM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Table and Figure Numbering
>
> Alison,
>
>  If there are chapters or appendices with no tables or figures, you
> still need to set Paragraph numbering to Continue Numbering from
> Previous Paragraph in Book. If you leave the default setting in those
> chapters, they will start the numbering over. Those chapters will look
> fine, but the first one that does have a table will continue from the
> preceding chapter, not the preceding chapter with tables.
>
>  --Lynne
>
> On 8/26/2021 10:51 AM, A Craig wrote:
> > I assume I am missing something really simple, but I can't get the Table
> and Figure numbering in the Appendices to pick up where they left off in
> the Chapters.
> > The first Appendix with a Table / Figure starts over at 1 and thereafter
> the numbers are cumulative within all the Appendices.
> > What setting am I missing?
>
> --
> Lynne A. Price
> Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
> Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development,
> and training
> lpr...@txstruct.com
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>
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Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

Some Framers are considering alternate applications, so compatibility
information and usability comparisons are useful.

As to possibly-embedded characters affecting line endings and similar
behavior, the InDesign option to hide/reveal hidden characters can help.

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021, 8:54 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> I just realized that I am wasting time for you all with an
> InDesign-related thread in a FrameMaker forum.
>
> Sorry about that! ☹
>
> So ... moving on ...
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 6:49 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM
> 10 on a new computer.
>
> Robert, my son checked and could not find an Export or Save As capability
> for RTF in InDesign. Do you, or anyone else, know if this is possible?
>
> Peter, the readback of the IDML back into InDesign was fine! My son noted
> that the display looked like the original INDD file.
>
> FWIW, I also tried opening the PDF (from InDesign) into Word and
> discovered some of the same errors (for example, carriage returns in wrong
> places in the text). The only thing I have not tried yet is to output Word
> or RTF format from Acrobat Pro ... hmmm.
>
> It is possible that our tech writer (no longer with us, unfortunately) who
> did the InDesign work for this document had extra carrier returns in there
> - which do not "show" in the PDF or within InDesign, but are present when
> the PDF (into Word) and IDML (into Affinity and Designer Pro) are imported!
>
> Since I do not have an InDesign license, I cannot verify this myself ...
> may download a trial to check things out myself, but I am not familiar with
> InDesign, so this may be slow ...
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Peter Gold
> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2021 7:57 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM
> 10 on a new computer.
>
> Hi, Robert!
>
> For whatever reasons, I never needed or wanted to go to Github, until
> now!!! Egad!
>
> Now that I’ve seen this, I’m not going to wonder about it. I am sure I’m
> not going down this rabbit hole. It reminds me of the scene in the Tom
> Sawyer movie I saw as a kid, when the string ran out and the candle died,
> and I was sure if I were with Tom and Becky, I'd never get back outside the
> cave. ;)
>
> But, this peek answers some of my questions about the problems being
> discussed here.
>
> The real issues, IMO, is which FrameMaker document properties an author
> expects to preserve when converting to another application, and whether the
> goal is to return the transformed and modified document perfectly
> re-interpreted to FM from the foreign application. Basically, two different
> universes need to be preserved - text and objects. Each application
> describes text and object properties with different languages and
> structures. And, just as in human languages, some ideas don't translate
> directly. Over FM's lifetime, some later releases had problems supporting
> structures from earlier ones. If this stuff were easy, it wouldn't have
> taken so long for some seemingly-simple feature requests to have been
> honored.
>
> So, in this branch of the thread, I wonder if converting a document to a
> competing layout application preserves layout features, does FM or ID text
> that's copied and pasted into the converted layout survive well, or is it
> also garbled as described? Does RTF work better or worse? Remember that
> InDesign has one of the most sophisticated text composition engines. So,
> perhaps the competitors don't compute text properties as well, or they lack
> some comparable computed properties.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 4:22 PM Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
>
> > Did you try exporting from InDesign as RTF?
> >
> > Even if they're not using the same library, such as
> https://github.com/jorisros/IDMLlib , other applications will inevitably
> have trouble reading IDM if they can't do everything that InDesign can.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 2:12 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain
> >  wrote:
> > >
> > > A last update.
> > >
> > > Reading the IDML back into InDesign worked fine - looked like the
> original!
> > >
> > > So, both these other tools have some limitations importing IDML.
> > >
> > > Although Affinity Publisher was a small amount better (not en

Re: [Framers] Importing InDesign IDML into two tools. Was RE: FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Robert!

For whatever reasons, I never needed or wanted to go to Github, until
now!!! Egad!

Now that I’ve seen this, I’m not going to wonder about it. I am sure I’m
not going down this rabbit hole. It reminds me of the scene in the Tom
Sawyer movie I saw as a kid, when the string ran out and the candle died,
and I was sure if I were with Tom and Becky, I'd never get back outside the
cave. ;)

But, this peek answers some of my questions about the problems being
discussed here.

The real issues, IMO, is which FrameMaker document properties an author
expects to preserve when converting to another application, and whether the
goal is to return the transformed and modified document perfectly
re-interpreted to FM from the foreign application. Basically, two different
universes need to be preserved - text and objects. Each application
describes text and object properties with different languages and
structures. And, just as in human languages, some ideas don't translate
directly. Over FM's lifetime, some later releases had problems supporting
structures from earlier ones. If this stuff were easy, it wouldn't have
taken so long for some seemingly-simple feature requests to have been
honored.

So, in this branch of the thread, I wonder if converting a document to a
competing layout application preserves layout features, does FM or ID text
that's copied and pasted into the converted layout survive well, or is it
also garbled as described? Does RTF work better or worse? Remember that
InDesign has one of the most sophisticated text composition engines. So,
perhaps the competitors don't compute text properties as well, or they lack
some comparable computed properties.


On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 4:22 PM Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> Did you try exporting from InDesign as RTF?
>
> Even if they're not using the same library, such as
> https://github.com/jorisros/IDMLlib , other applications will
> inevitably have trouble reading IDM if they can't do everything that
> InDesign can.
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 2:12 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
> wrote:
> >
> > A last update.
> >
> > Reading the IDML back into InDesign worked fine - looked like the
> original!
> >
> > So, both these other tools have some limitations importing IDML.
> >
> > Although Affinity Publisher was a small amount better (not enough to
> justify my getting yet another editing tool - I will get the trial lapse).
> >
> > So, they are clearly fine for *new* work, but importing IDML from
> InDesign would require repair to fix some errors - which errors, as
> mentioned earlier, surprisingly overlapped in the tools.
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

There's a ton of thorough Affinity tutorials on YouTube, for Publisher and
the companion raster and vector graphic tools.

Publisher is probably NOT the FM replacement some of us might have been
dreaming about, BUT it's great competition for InDesign, sorry to say.  :)

On Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 4:52 PM Böðvar Björgvinsson  wrote:

> My first book cover in Affinity Publisher went like a dream. Affinity ver.
> 1.10 is also much faster than earlier versions.
> Also, FM2015 on my new PC loads referenced pictures much faster than my old
> Dell XPS laptop.
>
> Brgds,
> Bodvar
>
>
>
>
>
> mán., 16. ágú. 2021 kl. 20:47 skrifaði Syed Zaeem Hosain <
> syed.hos...@aeris.net>:
>
> > Oops, sorry - the name is Designer Pro X.
> >
> > Z
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Syed Zaeem Hosain
> > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 1:46 PM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com>; Robert Lauriston 
> > Subject: RE: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.
> >
> > I have not tried Affinity [yet], but I recommend Design Pro X (the
> > perpetual version is at www.magix.com) for page layout as an alternative
> > to InDesign.
> >
> > I am not an InDesign user, so please take this recommendation with the
> > appropriate grain of salt - try it for yourself please!
> >
> > Design Pro X is a perpetual license (Windows only) and there is also a
> > cloud-based subscription version now (Argh - hope this is not an
> indication
> > of the future!) at www.xara.com.
> >
> > One thing that seems interesting: Affinity has a native MacOS version.
> >
> > And, Designer Pro X has a beta capability to read InDesign IDML files ...
> > Affinity has this support already supposedly. Not sure how important this
> > is for people!
> >
> > FWIW, I am goint to import an InDesign IDML into Design Pro X this coming
> > week, since I need to add some text to a document, and will see how that
> > goes. If it does not work, I will try Affinity!
> >
> > Z
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  aeris@lists.frameusers.com>
> > On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson
> > Sent: Monday, August 16, 2021 12:46 AM
> > To: Robert Lauriston ; Framers List <
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.
> >
> >You said: If you need only a page layout program, don't buy
> FrameMaker,
> >either.
> >What would you suggest if you only need a page layout program,
> >Affinity?
> >
> >On 12-Aug-21 10:47 PM, Robert Lauriston wrote:
> >
> > If you don't need a help authoring tool, don't buy Flare. Flare's
> > expensive because it takes a lot of development to keep up with
> customers'
> > evolving requirements.
> >
> > If you need only a page layout program, don't buy FrameMaker, either.
> > Its relatively high cost reflects its additional features such as
> > multichannel publishing, DITA, and the FDK.
> >
> > The document I round-tripped from FrameMaker to Flare and back wasn't
> > particularly simple, it was just consistently formatted.
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
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Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

Such a simple and clean source doc-set in Word might be as trouble-free.

Flare prices remind me of FM-UNIX prices of the 1990s.

Affinity offers ten-day free trials.

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 7:42 PM Robert Lauriston 
wrote:

> Ten years ago I found that Flare did an excellent job of
> "round-tripping" a FrameMaker book. There was one minor thing that got
> lost, they might have fixed that since. The book in question was very
> clean, absolutely consistent formatting with short, minimalist sets of
> paragraph and character tags and no direct formatting. Might not have
> been such a good experience with messy source.
>
> Affinity Publisher's certainly far cheaper than any other page layout
> program I know of. Do they not have a free trial?
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
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>
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Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

...

Thinking about the alternate routes through Affinity Publisher and InDesign
moved me to try this web search query: "affinity publisher compatibility
with other application file formats"

Some interesting results abide there. Marxware has some conversion tools,
as well as links to some Affinity tutorials, and a light review of an early
Affinity Publisher release's ability to use InDesign's .IDML file
interchange format (conceptual relative of FM's MIF.) The Marxware products
seem to be Mac-only. There's an inexpensive annual subscription price and a
reasonable standalone license. There's even a free InDesign file viewer.

The real issues are in the details of which FM features and output formats
your documentation relies upon, and whether you need "round-trip"
conversion from FM to another application and back that doesn't introduce
artifacts that need attention which costs more in time and effort to fix,
than sticking with FM and paying the rental fee.
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Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

Have you considered opening and saving your FM 2015 (and earlier) files as
MIF and also as one or more common interchangeable formats, using books,
and/or scripts, to create a stored legacy?

It would be interesting to hear what you find about Affinity <-> InDesign
conversion. Dtptools' MIF Filter for InDesign had a per-page cost, and its
anchored-frame conversion is crude.

It would be interesting to hear from everyone considering one or another of
these FM-alternative future workflows what FM features you must have in
that destination application. In the past, David Creamer and others have
posted FM feature comparisons with competitive applications. These would
simplifying the compilation of your personal wish list.

I'm not sure if FM is available as a monthly subscription like other Adobe
cloud-based applications, but if so, that might be a reasonable compromise
solution.

On Wed, Aug 11, 2021, 1:04 PM Böðvar Björgvinsson  wrote:

> Thanks for all the replies.
>
> I can see that more people than me are having a problem of this kind.
>
> Actually, on my old laptop I have FM2015, which I love, but am not able to
> use on my new desktop (all references missing), so FM 10 will have to do.
> I will have a lot of work to do to change my numerous 2015 files to older
> version in mif for the FM10.
> I was lucky enough to get an offer for the Affinity suite at half price,
> and now a free upgrade which allows for thousands of pages, a lot faster
> start etc. I am not using it yet for any real work as I haven't had the
> time to familiarize myself with it.
>
> Affinity is said to read InDesign and other Adobe files except FM, but with
> the tool from dptools it might work.
>
> Brgds,
> Bodvar
>
>
>
>
> þri., 10. ágú. 2021 kl. 20:01 skrifaði Syed Zaeem Hosain <
> syed.hos...@aeris.net>:
>
> > I have no real clue about Affinity, but you may find this interesting:
> > https://fixthephoto.com/adobe-framemaker-vs-affinity-publisher.html
> >
> > For me, I switched to LaTeX (for my technical documents) after FM12 when
> > the pricing/upgrade costs went berserk (IMHO), and from InDesign (minimal
> > use really) and Photoshop to various Xara tools - now integrated into
> their
> > Designer Pro lineup.
> >
> > The price is right for those replacement tools, and they do exactly what
> I
> > need from them. With rational licensing and upgrade prices!
> >
> > YMMV, of course.
> >
> > Z
> >
> > Pardon my harping on these in a FrameMaker mailing list ... I feel that
> as
> > an early adopter of FM (version 1.3, as I recall, on a Sun 3/50 back in
> > 1988), I have earned the right a bit, I hope! 
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  aeris@lists.frameusers.com>
> > On Behalf Of Böðvar Björgvinsson
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 12:44 PM
> > To: framers 
> > Subject: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.
> >
> > Hello all you great people!
> >
> > Sorry for the (Adobe) rant.
> >
> > Due to my laptop's old age I found myself needing a new pc, a desktop
> this
> > time. All is well with everything but Adobe FM. I recently tried to
> install
> > my FM12 which I had lost any info about, and got a categorical No Go from
> > Adobe Support (contradiction in terms).
> >
> > However I managed to install my FM 10, legally bought with CD and all
> (for
> > two computers but only one using it at a time) and got it set up and
> > working OK. Only, when I tried to use it again, I got a message that it
> > needs activation with Adobe. I ended up contacting Adobe online support
> who
> > finally sent me an update and everything went well—for the time being.
> >
> > Now, some 10-15 days later I started FM10, only to find that it wanted
> > activation with Adobe and I had 15 days until it would not be working at
> > all. At first it said, no Internet. Then it said I was connected and I
> > tried and I got the message that I had no internet connection and would
> > have to try again (and some other variation and try again.
> >
> > The recommended webpage is of little or no help.
> >
> > So finally I contacted Adobe online support. It took them approx. 90
> > minutes to figure it out. The product was too old for their databases. I
> > gave the guy access to my PC and he started digging. Finally I had to
> > uninstall and reinstall the FM upon which he sent me some kind of update
> > (license key, probably) which he didn't manage to obey, and the same all
> > over again. Then I remembered the update (TCS3) which he installed and
> then
> > the other update and all went well. He told me he had given it a new
> > license key (serial number) registered to my name. I hope for the best!
> And
> > I really recommend those guys on the Adobe online support.
> >
> > But I think I am permanently giving up on Adobe. Nowadays they seem only
> > to want your money. And a lot of it. Working now on probably my last FM
> > project.
> >
> > Going for Affinity from now on, which seems fabulous software.
> >
> > That's all for now.
> >
> > Kind 

Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

AFAIK, the MIF Filter converter for InDesign, from dtptools.com, is the
only non-Adobe/non-FM tool that can read MIF into another proprietary
application's format. Some FM features are translated better than others.

You can subscribe to InDesign month-by-month whenever you need to use it.

Folks have used Adobe's MIF Reference Guide to create data-publishing
applications. However, FM is required to convert native FM files to MIF and
other non-FM formats. Earlier FM releases present the message
"skipping...," when they ignore later FM features they don't recognize when
opening later-version MIF files.


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 6:24 PM D B  wrote:

> Does anyone know if Affinity Publisher can open/save FM or MIF files?


I like the idea of a one-time purchase, quite a bit actually.


Who doesn't?

If you're looking for the most flexibility, consider the least-lossy
document formats that are recognized by the most applications. RTF is one.

I think I'll
> give it a try.
>

Let us know how it goes!


> Doug
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 4:01 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
> wrote:
>
> > I have no real clue about Affinity, but you may find this interesting:
> > https://fixthephoto.com/adobe-framemaker-vs-affinity-publisher.html
> >
> > For me, I switched to LaTeX (for my technical documents) after FM12 when
> > the pricing/upgrade costs went berserk (IMHO), and from InDesign (minimal
> > use really) and Photoshop to various Xara tools - now integrated into
> their
> > Designer Pro lineup.
> >
> > The price is right for those replacement tools, and they do exactly what
> I
> > need from them. With rational licensing and upgrade prices!
> >
> > YMMV, of course.
> >
> > Z
> >
> > Pardon my harping on these in a FrameMaker mailing list ... I feel that
> as
> > an early adopter of FM (version 1.3, as I recall, on a Sun 3/50 back in
> > 1988), I have earned the right a bit, I hope! 
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  aeris@lists.frameusers.com>
> > On Behalf Of Böðvar Björgvinsson
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 12:44 PM
> > To: framers 
> > Subject: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.
> >
> > Hello all you great people!
> >
> > Sorry for the (Adobe) rant.
> >
> > Due to my laptop's old age I found myself needing a new pc, a desktop
> this
> > time. All is well with everything but Adobe FM. I recently tried to
> install
> > my FM12 which I had lost any info about, and got a categorical No Go from
> > Adobe Support (contradiction in terms).
> >
> > However I managed to install my FM 10, legally bought with CD and all
> (for
> > two computers but only one using it at a time) and got it set up and
> > working OK. Only, when I tried to use it again, I got a message that it
> > needs activation with Adobe. I ended up contacting Adobe online support
> who
> > finally sent me an update and everything went well—for the time being.
> >
> > Now, some 10-15 days later I started FM10, only to find that it wanted
> > activation with Adobe and I had 15 days until it would not be working at
> > all. At first it said, no Internet. Then it said I was connected and I
> > tried and I got the message that I had no internet connection and would
> > have to try again (and some other variation and try again.
> >
> > The recommended webpage is of little or no help.
> >
> > So finally I contacted Adobe online support. It took them approx. 90
> > minutes to figure it out. The product was too old for their databases. I
> > gave the guy access to my PC and he started digging. Finally I had to
> > uninstall and reinstall the FM upon which he sent me some kind of update
> > (license key, probably) which he didn't manage to obey, and the same all
> > over again. Then I remembered the update (TCS3) which he installed and
> then
> > the other update and all went well. He told me he had given it a new
> > license key (serial number) registered to my name. I hope for the best!
> And
> > I really recommend those guys on the Adobe online support.
> >
> > But I think I am permanently giving up on Adobe. Nowadays they seem only
> > to want your money. And a lot of it. Working now on probably my last FM
> > project.
> >
> > Going for Affinity from now on, which seems fabulous software.
> >
> > That's all for now.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Bodvar
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage
> > at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located 

Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

Cost is relative. So is time. Consider what deliverable formats are/will be
required, and the effort to convert from those you can create on your
current setup, and what formats future projects will require. One option
might be to reserve your current working outfit for paying contract work,
to extend its life, and get a new(er) rig for daily personal use.

Another option might be arranging for logging into contract client sites
remotely, and working on their equipment with their licensed software, just
like tech-support folks often do to bail out troubled users.



On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:58 PM Ken Poshedly  wrote:

>  My turn. And I know that I'm not alone with what I describe below.
>
> So now that I am doing occasional contract work with FM10, I fear that at
> some time, I also will need to upgrade my desktop hardware and attempt an
> FM10 reinstall and may encounter the same thing Bodvar did.
> With a giant catalog of various FM files on my desktop, what are my
> options? I've been using Word since the mid-1990s, but totally dislike it
> and its propensity to glitch and do its own thing.
> Subscribing to FM2020 (or whatever) for a grand (or whatever) is just not
> going to work for me (on SS and doing some contract work).
> -- Ken in Atlanta
> **
> On Tuesday, August 10, 2021, 4:27:37 PM EDT, Peter Gold
>  wrote:
>
>  Hi, Sayed
>
> My FM roots began with v. 2.0 on Mac! Thanks for the link to  the FM -
> Affinity comparison at fixthephoto. I found its information unhelpful from
> a user's POV.
>
> More power to you for having the ability to use major tools like LaTeX!
>
> Hoping to hear from Böðvar on his Affinity experience.
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:01 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
> wrote:
>
> > I have no real clue about Affinity, but you may find this interesting:
> > https://fixthephoto.com/adobe-framemaker-vs-affinity-publisher.html
> >
> > For me, I switched to LaTeX (for my technical documents) after FM12 when
> > the pricing/upgrade costs went berserk (IMHO), and from InDesign (minimal
> > use really) and Photoshop to various Xara tools - now integrated into
> their
> > Designer Pro lineup.
> >
> > The price is right for those replacement tools, and they do exactly what
> I
> > need from them. With rational licensing and upgrade prices!
> >
> > YMMV, of course.
> >
> > Z
> >
> > Pardon my harping on these in a FrameMaker mailing list ... I feel that
> as
> > an early adopter of FM (version 1.3, as I recall, on a Sun 3/50 back in
> > 1988), I have earned the right a bit, I hope! 
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  aeris@lists.frameusers.com>
> > On Behalf Of Böðvar Björgvinsson
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 12:44 PM
> > To: framers 
> > Subject: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.
> >
> > Hello all you great people!
> >
> > Sorry for the (Adobe) rant.
> >
> > Due to my laptop's old age I found myself needing a new pc, a desktop
> this
> > time. All is well with everything but Adobe FM. I recently tried to
> install
> > my FM12 which I had lost any info about, and got a categorical No Go from
> > Adobe Support (contradiction in terms).
> >
> > However I managed to install my FM 10, legally bought with CD and all
> (for
> > two computers but only one using it at a time) and got it set up and
> > working OK. Only, when I tried to use it again, I got a message that it
> > needs activation with Adobe. I ended up contacting Adobe online support
> who
> > finally sent me an update and everything went well—for the time being.
> >
> > Now, some 10-15 days later I started FM10, only to find that it wanted
> > activation with Adobe and I had 15 days until it would not be working at
> > all. At first it said, no Internet. Then it said I was connected and I
> > tried and I got the message that I had no internet connection and would
> > have to try again (and some other variation and try again.
> >
> > The recommended webpage is of little or no help.
> >
> > So finally I contacted Adobe online support. It took them approx. 90
> > minutes to figure it out. The product was too old for their databases. I
> > gave the guy access to my PC and he started digging. Finally I had to
> > uninstall and reinstall the FM upon which he sent me some kind of update
> > (license key, probably) which he didn't manage to obey, and the same all
> > over again. Then I remembered the update (TCS3) which he installed and
> then
> > the other update and all went well. He told me he had given it a new

Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Sayed

My FM roots began with v. 2.0 on Mac! Thanks for the link to  the FM -
Affinity comparison at fixthephoto. I found its information unhelpful from
a user's POV.

More power to you for having the ability to use major tools like LaTeX!

Hoping to hear from Böðvar on his Affinity experience.

On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:01 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> I have no real clue about Affinity, but you may find this interesting:
> https://fixthephoto.com/adobe-framemaker-vs-affinity-publisher.html
>
> For me, I switched to LaTeX (for my technical documents) after FM12 when
> the pricing/upgrade costs went berserk (IMHO), and from InDesign (minimal
> use really) and Photoshop to various Xara tools - now integrated into their
> Designer Pro lineup.
>
> The price is right for those replacement tools, and they do exactly what I
> need from them. With rational licensing and upgrade prices!
>
> YMMV, of course.
>
> Z
>
> Pardon my harping on these in a FrameMaker mailing list ... I feel that as
> an early adopter of FM (version 1.3, as I recall, on a Sun 3/50 back in
> 1988), I have earned the right a bit, I hope! 
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Böðvar Björgvinsson
> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 12:44 PM
> To: framers 
> Subject: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.
>
> Hello all you great people!
>
> Sorry for the (Adobe) rant.
>
> Due to my laptop's old age I found myself needing a new pc, a desktop this
> time. All is well with everything but Adobe FM. I recently tried to install
> my FM12 which I had lost any info about, and got a categorical No Go from
> Adobe Support (contradiction in terms).
>
> However I managed to install my FM 10, legally bought with CD and all (for
> two computers but only one using it at a time) and got it set up and
> working OK. Only, when I tried to use it again, I got a message that it
> needs activation with Adobe. I ended up contacting Adobe online support who
> finally sent me an update and everything went well—for the time being.
>
> Now, some 10-15 days later I started FM10, only to find that it wanted
> activation with Adobe and I had 15 days until it would not be working at
> all. At first it said, no Internet. Then it said I was connected and I
> tried and I got the message that I had no internet connection and would
> have to try again (and some other variation and try again.
>
> The recommended webpage is of little or no help.
>
> So finally I contacted Adobe online support. It took them approx. 90
> minutes to figure it out. The product was too old for their databases. I
> gave the guy access to my PC and he started digging. Finally I had to
> uninstall and reinstall the FM upon which he sent me some kind of update
> (license key, probably) which he didn't manage to obey, and the same all
> over again. Then I remembered the update (TCS3) which he installed and then
> the other update and all went well. He told me he had given it a new
> license key (serial number) registered to my name. I hope for the best! And
> I really recommend those guys on the Adobe online support.
>
> But I think I am permanently giving up on Adobe. Nowadays they seem only
> to want your money. And a lot of it. Working now on probably my last FM
> project.
>
> Going for Affinity from now on, which seems fabulous software.
>
> That's all for now.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bodvar
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage
> at  http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
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>
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>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] FM 10 on a new computer.

[Peter Gold]

Sorry to hear of your bad experience, Bodvar. Good to hear that Adobe's
tech support agent did work hard to resolve the problems initially. Hoping
that if/when the expected failures occur, you'll get similar expert
assistance from Adobe.

I may not be the only one who's interested to hear of your experiences with
moving to Affinity products specific Adobe replacements.

Although I'm no longer doing tech writing professionally, I've been working
out methods, strategies, and workarounds for replacing FM's many features
with counterparts in InDesign. I take the position that rewiring one's
brain periodically is healthy. YMMV!


On Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 2:44 PM Böðvar Björgvinsson  wrote:

> Hello all you great people!
>
> Sorry for the (Adobe) rant.
>
> Due to my laptop's old age I found myself needing a new pc, a desktop this
> time. All is well with everything but Adobe FM. I recently tried to install
> my FM12 which I had lost any info about, and got a categorical No Go from
> Adobe Support (contradiction in terms).
>
> However I managed to install my FM 10, legally bought with CD and all (for
> two computers but only one using it at a time) and got it set up and
> working OK. Only, when I tried to use it again, I got a message that it
> needs activation with Adobe. I ended up contacting Adobe online support who
> finally sent me an update and everything went well—for the time being.
>
> Now, some 10-15 days later I started FM10, only to find that it wanted
> activation with Adobe and I had 15 days until it would not be working at
> all. At first it said, no Internet. Then it said I was connected and I
> tried and I got the message that I had no internet connection and would
> have to try again (and some other variation and try again.
>
> The recommended webpage is of little or no help.
>
> So finally I contacted Adobe online support. It took them approx. 90
> minutes to figure it out. The product was too old for their databases. I
> gave the guy access to my PC and he started digging. Finally I had to
> uninstall and reinstall the FM upon which he sent me some kind of update
> (license key, probably) which he didn't manage to obey, and the same all
> over again. Then I remembered the update (TCS3) which he installed and then
> the other update and all went well. He told me he had given it a new
> license key (serial number) registered to my name. I hope for the best! And
> I really recommend those guys on the Adobe online support.
>
> But I think I am permanently giving up on Adobe. Nowadays they seem only to
> want your money. And a lot of it. Working now on probably my last FM
> project.
>
> Going for Affinity from now on, which seems fabulous software.
>
> That's all for now.
>
> Kind regards,
> Bodvar
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Is this your final answer to equations?

[Peter Gold]

I remember when a techwhirler at Sun Computer posted on one of these
listservs long ago, the discovery that the common "Lorem ipsum" placeholder
text wasn't random gobbledegook, but in fact, it seemed to prove that
ancient scribes had composed it, since it seemed to translate to something
like, "We love to write and beat ourselves with sticks."

We all have our memories of chasing seemingly-trivial rabbits through
looking-glasses into wonderlands of absolutely wrong stuff, until finally
coaxing out a true magic obvious tidbit. Is beating oneself with a stick to
celebrate closure, appropriately ironic?

On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 12:48 PM  wrote:

> Hi Lin, LOL . . . yep, you got that right. But, it works and at this
> point, I will take what I can get. Thank you so much again. I really can't
> express how much all the replies helped. At least it confirmed that I
> wasn't completely off my rocker about this issue. Tammy Van Boening Tammy
> dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com
> -Original Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Lin Sims Sent:
> Monday, August 9, 2021 11:35 AM To: An email list for people using Adobe
> FrameMaker software. Subject: Re: [Framers] Is this your final answer to
> equations? Sorry for the no doubt massive tedium you're experiencing now.
>  I had a thought that maybe converting the Word file to XML (via the ZIP
> option) and opening the XML in Structured Frame might work, but it doesn't.
> The XML file needs some sort of schema or something like that and, of
> course, it doesn't have one. Poop. So much for that idea. On Mon, Aug 9,
> 2021 at 12:41 PM wrote: > So, > > > > Remember that game show "The weakest
> link?" Well, that's what keeps > going through my head as I ask myself "Is
> this your final answer?" > > > > First, I truly and sincerely appreciate
> everyone's input and advice to > this issue. It helped to me to feel not so
> alone in my quest. Second, > I will summarize at a very high level the
> results of investigating all > that I investigated and what I ultimately
> had to do. > > > > 1. For Export to PDF - There are no special settings
> that I could find > anywhere that would help me get the equations
> recognized as images > when exporting to PDF. The equations remained
> recognized as text. > 2. For Export to PDF/XPS - There was a single setting
> that I could try > (Optimize for Image Quality), but again, the equations
> were not being > recognized as images. Only text. > 3. For Save As HTM/HTML
> - I tried Lin's recommendations (Save > > Advanced, and Web Options) at a
> size of Cambria Math 14 point, many > subscripts, especially those with a
> descender such as a "j" were still > being cut off. A "j" actually looked
> like an "i," for example. > 4. For Save as HTM/HTML - I incorporated Lin's
> recommendations along > with Sue's to increase the font size (this was also
> found as a > work-around when googling this issue until my fingers bled)
> and voila, > it helped with the cutting off of the descenders in a
> subscript, but > introduced another issue. Although in the Word document an
> equation > remained on a single line at the increased font size, when
> extracted > as PNGs, these equations were now turned into multi-line
> equations at > arbitrary points so the equation was not pleasing or easy to
> read or > consistent in layout. Operators were left randomly on their own
> lines, > some lines had only two equation variables, others had three, etc.
> > > > > I have just punted at this point. I have worked off-book way too
> many > hours to try and resolve this issue further. I am going w/ the PDF >
> solution of saving the Word file to a PDF, and then cropping each >
> equation to the size that I need and importing the PDF into the FM >
> document. As vector images, scaling the PDF to view is not an issue > and I
> can now at least save the equations to a single folder with each > equation
> image having a unique name and I can import each equation > into the
> multiple documents as I need. If I need to make a change to > an equation,
> I can make a change in the original Word doc., save as a > PDF with the
> appropriate name and voila, all the documents that have > this equation
> imported will be updated en masse and the information > won't get out of
> sync across multiple documents. The only thing that > I will simplify going
> forward is to have each equation in its on Word > file so that I can deal
> w/ one PDF at a time and not have to take an > extra step to crop each
> equation individually out of the PDF file. > > > > Again, I sincerely and
> truly appreciate all the effort, thoughts, and > advice that was supplied.
> This list just rocks w/ incredibly talented > and knowledgeable folks that
> always go the extra mile. I hope to be > able to pay it forward someday. >
> > > > Happy Monday > > > > TVB > > > > > > Tammy Van Boening > > Tammy dot
> vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com > > 

Re: [Framers] Appearance of graphics in the generated PDF

[Peter Gold]

First principles -- Any chance that a particular Word -> PDF export option
could help?

On Sat, Aug 7, 2021, 1:54 PM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

> Yea. It was one of the first things that Rick had me try
>
> we saved the word document to a PDF and opened it up and the equations
> aren’t being recognized as an image they’re being recognized as text.
>
> I appreciate all the thoughts and input it really does help maybe we will
> eventually stumble on some thing though
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the typos.
>
> > On Aug 6, 2021, at 10:37 PM, Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> > I think I mentioned it, earlier, but I no longer recall if Tammy tried
> it
> > or not.
> >
> >> On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 11:20 PM Peter Gold  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ummm... I thought about going outside the box and searched the web for
> >> extracting images from PDF. One of the interesting results suggested
> using
> >> Export all images from within Acrobat. Of course, one needs to start by
> >> saving or exporting the Word source document to PDF. I don't have a
> running
> >> version of FM to import an exported TIFF, JPG, or PNG and evaluate the
> >> result. Could be worth a try. IIRC, this isn't one of the methods you've
> >> mentioned.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> > Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> > Archives located at
> http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> ___
>
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>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Appearance of graphics in the generated PDF

[Peter Gold]

Ummm... I thought about going outside the box and searched the web for
extracting images from PDF. One of the interesting results suggested using
Export all images from within Acrobat. Of course, one needs to start by
saving or exporting the Word source document to PDF. I don't have a running
version of FM to import an exported TIFF, JPG, or PNG and evaluate the
result. Could be worth a try. IIRC, this isn't one of the methods you've
mentioned.

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 4:48 PM  wrote:

> So, here's the low down: 1.) For the Word doc that contains the equations:
> >
> In Word, under File / Options / Advanced / Image Size and Quality, I
> selected "Do Not Compress Images in File" and changed the default output to
> High fidelity. 2.) I then saved the doc as an htm/html file and followed
> the
> instructions: In the Save As dialog box, Tools / Web Options / Pictures,
> choose a screen size in higher quality such as 1920 x 1200 and set pixels
> per inch to 120 ppi. 3.) After the file was saved and the PNGs extracted, I
> selected a couple of equations and imported them into my FM document, but .
> . . for some of these equations, 120 ppi made them incredibly small (some
> equations are very simple and small is not so good, and some are very
> complicated and small is good. They run the gamut), but I went ahead and
> left them as-is. 4.) I made sure to use the High Quality Print job option
> that I had modified ONLY to embed selected fonts (I did not change any of
> the other options). 5.) I printed the file to .ps in a watched folder,
> which
> was then distilled to a PDF. Looking at the file: Definitely much more
> clear
> than w/out selecting all these options, but if the equation contained
> subscripts or superscripts that had descenders (for example, the word
> "drainage" w/ "g" having a descender), then that part of the font was
> blurry
> or cut off altogether. The same thing happened when saving straight to HTML
> w/out all these options and I figured the lack of resolution of the images
> was the culprit. I was hoping that by selecting these options that this
> issue would be alleviated, but alas, it does not appear to be the case.
> It's
> obviously something about how Word saves equations to PNGs that I have
> absolutely NO control over - it doesn't neatly save the descenders for any
> superscript or subscript at all. With the vector image, that is not an
> issue. And for grins and giggles, I downloaded a trial of MathType and
> created a simple equation with a subscript that had a descender and saved
> the file as an .gif, and the same problem occurred - not as blatant,
> albeit,
> but still there. So, I guess the moral of this story is equations do not
> like to be converted to a rasterized image and pounding them into
> submission
> via the vector approach that I described gives me the clarity that I need
> in
> my final PDF output. This list still rocks and I couldn't survive without
> it. Y'all don't know how much I appreciate you and being able to be a
> member
> of this community. TGIF!!! TVB Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening at
> spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com -Original
> Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of Lin Sims Sent: Friday, August 6,
> 2021 2:19 PM To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Appearance of graphics in the generated PDF I did a
> quick trial run. For whatever reason, converting to html provided TWO PNG
> files, one that had a good quality and one that was just miserable. The
> good
> quality one is still raster, not vector, but it looked pretty good up to
> about 400% or so. On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 4:16 PM Peter Gold wrote: > Lin
> harnessed the Force using Yoda-wisdom: "The sound of the right > answer
> comes from asking the right question! " > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2021, 3:08 PM
> Lin
> Sims wrote: > > > I think I found the answer for how to get the PNG files
> to
> a higher > > quality: > > > > > > - > > > > In Word, under File / Options /
> Advanced / Image Size and > > Quality, > check > > "Do Not Compress Images
> in File" and change the default output to High > > fidelity. > > - > > > >
> In the Save As dialog box, Tools / Web Options / Pictures, choose a > >
> screen size in higher quality such as 1920x1200 and set pixels > > per >
> inch > > to > > 120 ppi. > > > > > > This is from: > > > > >
> https://superuser.com/questions/1282555/saving-word-file-as-html-decre >
> ases-quality-of-equations > > > > On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 3:46 PM wrote: > >
> > > 

Re: [Framers] Appearance of graphics in the generated PDF

[Peter Gold]

Lin harnessed the Force using Yoda-wisdom: "The sound of the right answer
comes from asking the right question! "

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021, 3:08 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> I think I found the answer for how to get the PNG files to a higher
> quality:
>
>
>-
>
>In Word, under File / Options / Advanced / Image Size and Quality, check
>"Do Not Compress Images in File" and change the default output to High
>fidelity.
>-
>
>In the Save As dialog box, Tools / Web Options / Pictures, choose a
>screen size in higher quality such as 1920x1200 and set pixels per inch
> to
>120 ppi.
>
>
> This is from:
>
> https://superuser.com/questions/1282555/saving-word-file-as-html-decreases-quality-of-equations
>
> On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 3:46 PM  wrote:
>
> > Here is a summary of the issue:
> >
> > Equations originate from the client in MS Word.
> >
> > Tammy wants to save the equations as images for import into FrameMaker.
> >
> > The fastest way to do this is to save the Word file as HTML because it
> > rasterizes the equations as PNG files for inclusion in the HTML. The
> > problem
> > is that the resolution of these rasterized PNG files is 96 dpi, which is
> > suitable for the web, but not for print. We can't see a way to increase
> the
> > resolution in the Word rasterization process.
> >
> >
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
>
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Re: [Framers] Appearance of graphics in the generated PDF

[Peter Gold]

Are there any options you or the SME author can set, which would affect the
equation editor's HTML output? If so, are there any meaningful
improvements? Any roads not yet taken?

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021, 12:04 PM Fred Ridder  wrote:

> I suspect the answer is that whoever is creating the equations does not
> have (and does not want to have to pay for and learn how to use) a
> FrameMaker license.
>
> But a perhaps less stupid question is whether it's possible and practical
> to use a free-standing equation editor (e.g., MathType, MathMagic) or a
> tool that is based on LaTeX (e.g. LyX)?  The LaTeX approach is kind of PITA
> because even the best tools are only WYSIWYM (what you see is what you
> mean​), but most professinals consider the end result to be the best
> quality available.
>
> -FR
>
> 
> From: Framers 
> on behalf of Lin Sims 
> Sent: Friday, August 6, 2021 8:06 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Appearance of graphics in the generated PDF
>
> Probably a stupid question, but is there a reason you're creating the
> equations in Word rather than in Frame's Equation Editor?
>
> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 6:32 PM  wrote:
>
> > I have an equation-laden document that I am writing. The equations are
> > being
> > created in a Word doc (.docx) using Word's native equation editor. The
> > .docx
> > file is then saved as an .htm/.html file and all the equations in the
> > document are automatically saved as .pngs in a separate folder named as
> > image.(n), where n is the image number.  I double-click an equation in
> this
> > folder to automatically open the equation in my image editor (SnagIT - I
> > don't need anything as heavy as Photoshop as I am not doing any
> > modifications to the equations) and save the equation without any changes
> > to
> > it whatsoever with a new name. I then import the image into Framemaker by
> > reference.   I don't mess w/ the dpi of the image when I select it for
> > import - any image in the folder that was created during the saving of
> the
> > Word file shows a dpi of 96 in the Imported Graphic Scaling dialog box
> when
> > I select it for import and although this seems nutty to me (because none
> of
> > the images are over-sized). . . they look clear and crisp in the source
> FM
> > file (The Advanced Properties of any image in SnagIT is also showing a
> > resolution of 96 dpi);  however, upon generation of the PDF, it goes to
> > h*ll
> > in a handbasket. The equation looks almost as if the font is almost bold
> > and
> > therefore much darker than the text in the FM source file, and it's not
> > nearly as crisp and clear as in the source FM document - it actually
> looks
> > blurry/pixelated.
>
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Re: [Framers] Appearance of graphics in the generated PDF

[Peter Gold]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 7:30 PM tammyvb spectrumwritingllc.com <
tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com> wrote:

> Hi Lise,
>
> I won’t bore you with all the details, but unfortunately, a screen grab
> direct from the Word doc is not an option.
>
> Thanks for replying. . . Believe me, it just helps to know that someone is
> trying for me
>
> Sent from my iPhone. Pardon the typos.
>
> > On Aug 5, 2021, at 5:42 PM, Lise Bible  wrote:
> >
> > Tammy, that sounds hair-tearingly-out frustrating!
>

Obviously, anyone who could coin and use a term like"hair-tearingly-out
frustrating" can imagine creative ways to solve problems that may not have
solutions.  ;) Thanks for the attempt, Lise!

I remember my small company's CEO commenting after a few of us brought him
a messy problem to sort out, "Hmmm... Too many handoffs! See if fixing that
solves it." So, I’m looking at the transformations from Word's equation
editor to HTML to PNG to PDF via FM, and wondering if somewhere along the
line there are opportunities to control the fonts. Seems like opportunities
for rounding errors to affect line widths of recalculated fonts. Perhaps
specifying a different original font size, weight, or foundry, or a
different HTML conversion tool or method might make a difference.

HTH
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Re: [Framers] FM10 templates

[Peter Gold]

MIF no question, but gotta consider the possible unfortunates who may have
to maintain the publication in Word.

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021, 12:48 PM Craig Ede  wrote:

> Or, better, MIF.
>
> Craig
>
> ….snip….
> Whoever maintains the newsletter going forward will need an FM version that
> can open existing newsletter versions. Consider exporting your work as RTF.
>
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Re: [Framers] FM10 templates

[Peter Gold]

Whoever maintains the newsletter going forward will need an FM version that
can open existing newsletter versions. Consider exporting your work as RTF.

On Wed, Aug 4, 2021, 11:37 AM Ken Poshedly  wrote:

> Hey gang,
> I'm now doing a company newsletter (contract job) and could use some help
> in locating a few FrameMaker 10 (yes, "10") newsletter templates. (I'm
> retired and on SS, so upgrading to subscription-only FM is out of the
> question. Plus, I own what I have and it works just fine for my needs.)
> My client is a family-owned construction company and I have a sample of
> one of the previous company newsletters (done in [ugh!] Word), but prefer
> to do mine in Frame, since Word just seems to glitch frequently with me.
> The sample is attractive, but has no general layout "theme" (at least to
> me).
>
> I've done the usual online search and see nice things, but prefer not to
> have to actually build headings and styles and such from scratch if a
> ready-made template is available.
>
> So any ideas for FM10 newsletter templates? Anybody? Beuhler?
> -- Ken in Atlanta
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Re: [Framers] Adding a word to FM dictionary

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Tammy!

I've been a Mac user for years, so my wild Windows guesses are all from
memory.

A few other stabs:

* Have you tried restarting Windows in "safe" mode?

* Have you tried a different font? Are there any non-standard characters in
the text?

* On the chance that there's a bad hardware/memory/drive problem, have you
run diagnostic utilities, logging in as a different user, moving RAM
modules to different sockets, and/or removing and reinserting RAM and drive
connectors?

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 6:00 PM  wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> I am a party of one, so nothing on a network directory branch of my
> installation. Everything is in my local directory. I wouldn't have a clue
> as
> to what application tweaked my Windows and even if it did, why on earth
> would the one word "potential" in the FM check spelling world be affected??
> Stranger things, yes, have happened, but . ..
>
> Is there a way to refresh/replace/repair the US English dictionary for FM?
> Just trying all thoughts at this point.
>
> Thank you!
>
> TVB
>
> Tammy Van Boening
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers
>  On
> Behalf Of Peter Gold
> Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 3:56 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Adding a word to FM dictionary
>
> Standing out here on the sidelines of your battle, I can't help but wonder
> if there's some kind of Windows cache issue that's at play. Actually not
> "play" - more like evil. IIRC, in DOS days, some applications needed some
> OS
> environment options, like "files=", or "threads=," customized, to perform
> optimally. Perhaps there's a Windows Ace who can chime in here.
>
> * Is it possible that other applications have tweaked your Windows?
>
> * Is it possible that some of your settings or support files are on a
> network directory branch of your installation, rather than in your local
> directory?
>
> HTH
>
> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 2:37 PM  wrote:
>
> > Update to the problem below: I followed Reng's advice about writing
> > the dictionaries to a file to attempt a correction that way and
> > neither the document dictionary nor the personal dictionary contains
> > "potential."  Does anyone have any advice or ideas?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > TVB
> >
> >
> > __
> > __
> >
> > __
> > __
> > ___
> >
> > OK,
> >
> >
> >
> > This was happening in FM12 and now with a standalone new install with
> > FM2019, so I give because as a standalone install (it was not an
> > upgrade install), the dictionaries should be new and not corrupted - in
> theory!
> > The
> > word "potential" is getting flagged as a possible misspelling in my
> > current document set, and based on the section that I am writing
> > currently, it's driving me insane. If I right-click on a flagged
> > instance of "potential," I can select either Learn the Word or Allow
> > in Document and still get the same cryptic message:
> >
> >
> >
> > "You cannot add potential to a dictionary. To add potential to a
> > dictionary, first deselect the corresponding Find setting in the
> > Spelling Checker Options dialog box."
> >
> >
> >
> > What friggin' Find setting? There isn't an applicable one selected. . .
> > it's
> > not a repeated word, etc.
> >
> >
> >
> > Any advice on how to solve this inane problem?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> >
> > TVB
> >
> >
> >
> > Tammy Van Boening
> >
> > Principal/Owner
> >
> > Spectrum Writing, LLC
> >
> > www.spectrumwritingllc.com <http://www.spectrumwritingllc.com>
> >
> > 303-840-1755
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's
> > homepage at http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/framers%40lists.frameusers.com/
> > Subscribe and unsubscribe at
> > http://lists.frameusers.com/listinfo.cgi/framers-frameusers.com
> > Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com
> >
> > 

Re: [Framers] Adding a word to FM dictionary

[Peter Gold]

Standing out here on the sidelines of your battle, I can't help but wonder
if there's some kind of Windows cache issue that's at play. Actually not
"play" - more like evil. IIRC, in DOS days, some applications needed some
OS environment options, like "files=", or "threads=," customized, to
perform optimally. Perhaps there's a Windows Ace who can chime in here.

* Is it possible that other applications have tweaked your Windows?

* Is it possible that some of your settings or support files are on a
network directory branch of your installation, rather than in your local
directory?

HTH

On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 2:37 PM  wrote:

> Update to the problem below: I followed Reng's advice about writing the
> dictionaries to a file to attempt a correction that way and neither the
> document dictionary nor the personal dictionary contains "potential."  Does
> anyone have any advice or ideas?
>
> Thanks!
>
> TVB
>
>
> 
>
> 
> ___
>
> OK,
>
>
>
> This was happening in FM12 and now with a standalone new install with
> FM2019, so I give because as a standalone install (it was not an upgrade
> install), the dictionaries should be new and not corrupted - in theory!
> The
> word "potential" is getting flagged as a possible misspelling in my current
> document set, and based on the section that I am writing currently, it's
> driving me insane. If I right-click on a flagged instance of "potential," I
> can select either Learn the Word or Allow in Document and still get the
> same
> cryptic message:
>
>
>
> "You cannot add potential to a dictionary. To add potential to a
> dictionary,
> first deselect the corresponding Find setting in the Spelling Checker
> Options dialog box."
>
>
>
> What friggin' Find setting? There isn't an applicable one selected. . .
> it's
> not a repeated word, etc.
>
>
>
> Any advice on how to solve this inane problem?
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> TVB
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Principal/Owner
>
> Spectrum Writing, LLC
>
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com 
>
> 303-840-1755
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
>
> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com Visit the list's homepage at
> http://www.frameusers.com Archives located at
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Re: [Framers] Welcome to the new FrameUsers List Mom

[Peter Gold]

Yy, Bernard! Yy, Carol! Yy, Rick! Frame marches on.

On Fri, Jul 9, 2021, 12:03 PM Carol J. Elkins 
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I wanted to introduce you to the new FrameUsers List Mom. It is none
> other than  (drum roll please)...
>
> Bernard Aschwanden
>
> Already well known and well loved by many of us on the list, Bernard
> will be a great List Mom, and I have every confidence that he will
> maintain the integrity and quality of the listserv.
>
> I think the handover will go really smoothly, but if you do
> experience any bumps or anomalies, please let Bernard know. Email him
> at listad...@frameusers.com
>
> It has been such a pleasure working with you all. And it is YOU who
> make this list rock. Keep doing what you've been doing.
>
> Carol Elkins
> former List Mom
>
> ___
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> This message is from the Framers mailing list
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Re: [Framers] Can Someone Take the Reins?

[Peter Gold]

Before this fades into the mists of history completely off-list, I want to
say thanks to Carol and Rick, and the many other folks in this FrameMaker
community for generously contributing to and sharing FM knowledge and lore.
We're all more productive and enlightened because of each other.

Thank, All!

On Wed, Jun 30, 2021 at 4:17 PM Carol J. Elkins 
wrote:

> At 02:11 PM 6/30/2021, Syed Zaeem Hosain wrote:
> >Not sure if Reddit is the right place. It can be quite out of
> >control with its tons of random posts on all kinds of topics.
> >
> >A _far_ better site is groups.io ... I use it for a few email
> >discussion groups that I administer. And it would work for this
> >mailing list perfectly!
>
>
> Ultimately it will be up to whomever takes over the list and whomever
> (if ever) acquires ownership of the list. But IMO, Mailman is one of
> the best platforms to use for a listserv. It controls spam and has
> good access to archives. It is part of the service that the domain
> host provides and it took a great deal of work to get it all set up
> and working smoothly back in 2016 when I worked with Brad to get
> everything moved away from GoDaddy. I personally wouldn't consider
> changing. But let's leave that discussion for another day (hopefully
> far, far in the future).
>
> Thanks everyone for your warm thoughts. It has been a pleasure and
> honor working with this group. A nicer, more thoughtful, and more
> helpful group of people can't be found. I really would like to move
> this conversation off list now. I have made contact with Finite
> Matters and they will try to get Brad to call me back.  I will keep
> everyone posted. And for those kind souls who are willing to take
> over admin duties, I'll contact you all OFF LIST in a week or so and
> we'll figure out the best way forward.
>
> Carol
>
>
> ___
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Re: [Framers] can someone take the reins?

[Peter Gold]

I believe domain owners' contact information is publicly available at the
registrar.

On Sat, Jun 26, 2021, 1:24 PM A Craig  wrote:

>
> First, many thanks to Carol and Risk for undertaking this task for the
> last few years. Those of us who use the list truly appreciate it.
>
> Second, when the domain expires, if donations are needed to pay for the
> renewal, send me a note as I am more than willing to make a contribution.
>
> Alison
>
>
> From: "Scott Prentice" 
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker, software." <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Sent: Friday, 25 June, 2021 17:04:12
> Subject: Re: [Framers] can someone take the reins?
>
> Hi Carol...
>
> You may know this .. but as a point of interest, it looks like the
> frameusers.com domain registration expires in under a year, on
> 2022-05-23. Hopefully someone can wake up Brad Anderson before that
> date. :-o
>
> Cheers,
> ...scott
>
>
> On 6/25/21 10:20 AM, Carol J. Elkins wrote:
> > Hi Framers,
> >
> > Rick Quatro and I have been managing the FrameUsers listserv for
> > several years now. I'm retired and no longer use Frame much and Rick
> > would like to step back, too. We'd like to hand the reins over to one
> > or two new volunteers. There is almost ZERO time and effort required.
> > A couple times a month, someone who has been placed on moderated
> > status for poor listetiquette will need to have their post manually
> > approved. It takes 30 seconds.
> >
> > I have tried everything, including leaving voice and email messsages,
> > to the site's owner, Brad Anderson, and have had no response. If
> > anyone knows how to get ahold of him, I'd appreciate some help. It is
> > really his responsibility to take the reins and find new managers. And
> > he needs to find someone to update/redesign/delete the FrameUsers.com
> > Web site. That won't affect the listserv.
> >
> > Are any of you willing to become new listserv managers? If so, please
> > email me off-list at celk...@critterhaven.biz
> >
> > Carol Elkins
> > List Mom (hopefully for not much longer)
> >
> > ___
> >
> > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >
> > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Equations and font sizes of different components in Framemaker 2019

[Peter Gold]

Is it possible that a post-processing script could do the corrections?

On Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 4:37 PM  wrote:

> And yes, I know the "solution" would be to do all variables that require a
> subscript or superscript as an equation, but the budget and timing of this
> simply won't allow for it - there are literally THOUSANDS of variables that
> I have had to define and taking the time to make an equation out of one
> that
> can be so easily entered via free-handed text is not a economically viable
> solution as a result. Thank you! TVB Tammy Van Boening Tammy dot vanboening
> at spectrumwritingllc dot com www.spectrumwritingllc.com -Original
> Message- From: Framers On Behalf Of tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com
> Sent:
> Wednesday, June 23, 2021 3:30 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject:
> [Framers] Equations and font sizes of different components in Framemaker
> 2019 OK, If anyone has used the Equations pod and can provide insight in
> how
> to solve this problem, I would be forever grateful. Here's the story: I
> have
> a very equation dense manual that I am producing in Framemaker 2019 for all
> the text, imported graphics, etc. I have a sub-contractor who is working in
> an equation editor to define and develop all the necessary equations. These
> equations are organized in a Word document. I take a screen capture of the
> full equation and import it into an anchored frame in my document. I am
> doing it this way because each equation must be used in two separate
> manuals
> (the manual that I am currently writing and a manual that consists of only
> the equations - nothing more). As a result, after I take a screen capture
> and store the capture in a central location, I can import the equation into
> each document. If the equation must be edited/updated, then the equation is
> updated in the Word document, I retake the screen capture w/ the same name
> and save it to the original location to simultaneously update the two docs.
> This part has worked flawlessly. What I MUST do in the manual that I am
> currently writing is tabulate each equation variable in a two column table.
> The left column is the variable, and the right column is the variable
> definition. For the left column of the table, I have a paragraph tag
> defined
> as TableEquationVariable, and this tag is set to Times New Roman, 12 point,
> Italic. I also have two character tags with everything set to As-is -
> Superscript and Subscript - and as the name implies the ONLY property that
> I
> have set for these tags is Superscript or Subscript. For variables that
> require a single superscript or subscript, this works just fine, for
> example, Clumen,t. However, the one thing that I have noticed is that after
> applying either of these tags, the subscript or superscript visually appear
> smaller in font size but I have confirmed that they are indeed 12pt in
> size.
> I guess it's just the way that FM applies this scripting property falsely
> makes the font appear smaller than it is. The rub is that the vast majority
> of these variables contain both subscripts and superscripts. For example,
> Cj,lumen,t would be a C with a "j" subscript and perfectly aligned
> underneath the "j" would be the "lumen, t" subscript. For such a variable,
> I
> insert a new Medium Equation, and w/ the ? mark selected, I enter a capital
> C. Under symbols, I then Start String, enter a "j" and then End String. I
> then position the selected string of "j" as needed for a superscript. I
> then
> place the cursor after the "j", and then Start String, enter "lumen, t" and
> then End String. I then position the selected string appropriately as a
> subscript. The problem is that the font size of these subscripts and
> superscripts visually appears MUCH larger than the font of the superscript
> or subscripts for which I manually applied the character tag. So, I created
> an additional Character Tag called EquationVariables_SuperSubScript and set
> everything to as-is OTHER than the font size and set that to a font size of
> 8 pt - something in an attempt to get these strings to look like the
> free-handed subscript/superscripts in other variables. In the Equation
> Fonts
> dialog box, I mapped Strings to this new tag, but. . . . this doesn't seem
> to make one darned bit of difference. The strings appear to remain
> noticeably larger in font size than I want. I have tried the other route w/
> Small Equation size but then the C is MUCH smaller than the required font.
> .
> etc. I am just going in circles but from the other direction. So I tried a
> third approach where the C was just freely entered text, and then I entered
> each string as independent equation and that solved the font size issue for
> whatever reason, but positioning one string as a subscript and one as a
> superscript is simply not feasible. If anyone can point me in the right
> direction to resolving this dilemma, I would be most appreciative. It is
> definitely a visual issue that my SMEs 

Re: [Framers] Backups

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Rick! FrameMaker and the FM user community owe a lot to dedicated
innovators like you. Take a well-deserved bow.

Sue, thanks for mentioning the package feature. I stopped using FM early in
this century, so it's good to know that the developers have continued to
innovate useful features. If only they could devote a little more time to
some of those ancient bugs and perpetually wish-listed feature
requests  :)


On Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 7:57 AM  wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> My ArchiveES was written as a replacement for (and tribute to) Bruce
> Foster's Archive plugin.
>
> Rick
>
> Rick Quatro
> Carmen Publishing Inc.
> 585-729-6746
> r...@frameexpert.com
> http://www.frameexpert.com/store
>
>
>
> -Original Message-----
> From: Framers 
> On
> Behalf Of Peter Gold
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2021 11:24 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software.
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Backups
>
> One of the first FM lifesavers I heard about in the early days was Bruce
> Foster's Archive utility. It copied FM document folders to specified
> locations and adjusted reference links.
>
> Perhaps someone on the list knows if it still works with recent Windows and
> FM releases, where to find it, etc.
>
> On Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 10:03 AM tammyvb 
> wrote:
>
> > Also remember that your backup files have the same graphic import
> > information and x-ref info as your master files, so if you move them
> > to a different folder and don't keep the same relative path  all your
> > links will be broken and if you need to save yourself from a bad
> > situation with the backup files, you will have to set up all that
> > information again. . .as Lin stated, Ruck does have a script that helps
> somewhat in this endeavor. .
> > .windwr if he could trick it out to solve this linking issue?Sent from
> > Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
> >  Original message From: D B 
> Date:
> > 6/17/21  6:16 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: "An email list for people using
> > Adobe FrameMaker software."  Subject:
> > [Framers] Backups Is there a way to have FrameMaker save the automatic
> > backup files in asub-folder below the project folder?  I see where to
> > turn on/off thebackups, but not any way to specify where to save
> > them.Having those backups in the same location makes the folder much
> > too busy,IMO.I'm using Frame
> > 14.Thanks,Doug___This
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Re: [Framers] Backups

[Peter Gold]

One of the first FM lifesavers I heard about in the early days was Bruce
Foster's Archive utility. It copied FM document folders to specified
locations and adjusted reference links.

Perhaps someone on the list knows if it still works with recent Windows and
FM releases, where to find it, etc.

On Thu, Jun 17, 2021, 10:03 AM tammyvb 
wrote:

> Also remember that your backup files have the same graphic import
> information and x-ref info as your master files, so if you move them to a
> different folder and don't keep the same relative path  all your links will
> be broken and if you need to save yourself from a bad situation with the
> backup files, you will have to set up all that information again. . .as Lin
> stated, Ruck does have a script that helps somewhat in this endeavor. .
> .windwr if he could trick it out to solve this linking issue?Sent from
> Samsung Galaxy smartphone.
>  Original message From: D B  Date:
> 6/17/21  6:16 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: "An email list for people using Adobe
> FrameMaker software."  Subject: [Framers]
> Backups Is there a way to have FrameMaker save the automatic backup files
> in asub-folder below the project folder?  I see where to turn on/off
> thebackups, but not any way to specify where to save them.Having those
> backups in the same location makes the folder much too busy,IMO.I'm using
> Frame 14.Thanks,Doug___This
> message is from the Framers mailing listSend messages to
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Re: [Framers] Paragraph numbering

[Peter Gold]

When I was a trainer, I always showed the FM outline template example files
in class, alongside the numbering pane of the paragraph designer. IOW, we
went to the source.

IIRC, web searches for FrameMaker auto numbering find good examples.

HTH

On Tue, Jun 15, 2021, 3:28 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> In addition to Lynne's excellent explanation, I'd like to add that while
> you can leave the trailing placeholders out of your autonumber definitions,
> it is generally recommended that they be used so that you have a visual
> reminder of how many characters are included. This becomes really important
> when you try to set up a single series to handle, for example, heading
> levels, tables, and graphics.
>
> So where she has:
>
>   s: increments and displays the first level and resets the
> > second and third levels to 0
> >   s:. displays the first level without changing it,
> > increments and displays the second level, and resets the third level to 0
> >   s:.. displays the first and second levels without
> > changing them, increments and displays the third level
>
>
> I would use:
>
> s:.< =0>.< =0>
> s:..< =0>
> s:..
>
> The end result is the same, but you now have a visual reminder that there
> are other tags using this series that may require updating.
>
> (And I'm female, btw. Not that it's easy to tell from my name!)
>
> On Tue, Jun 15, 2021 at 9:58 AM Lynne A. Price 
> wrote:
>
> > Debbie,
> >
> >  Lin's example uses some options in FrameMaker's counter support
> > that you didn't mention in your post:
> >
> > 1. Different sequences. If a paragraph's autonumber starts with a single
> > character followed by a colon, it uses counters that are independent of
> > those in other sequences. One solution in your case would be to use:
> >
> >   x: and x: for numbered items
> >   y: and y: for lettered items
> >
> > I've used the x and y sequences in this example to emphasize that the
> > sequence identifiers are independent of the way you are formatting the
> > counter values. Of course, using n and a (or N and A) is probably more
> > natural.
> >
> > Different sequences can be used for different numbered constructs. For
> > example, you might use one sequence for list numbers and a different one
> > for section numbers.
> >
> > 2. Using multiple levels in one sequence. For example, documents with
> > three levels of sections can use the first counter for main sections,
> > the second for subsections, and the third for subsubsections with
> > autonumbers such as:
> >
> >   s: for main sections
> >   s:. for subsections
> >   s:.. for subsubsections
> >
> > The counter for any level that is not mentioned is reset to 0. Thus,
> >
> >   s: increments and displays the first level and resets the
> > second and third levels to 0
> >   s:. displays the first level without changing it,
> > increments and displays the second level, and resets the third level to 0
> >   s:.. displays the first and second levels without
> > changing them, increments and displays the third level
> >
> > 3. Displaying a counter in different ways. Building blocks indicate the
> > format in which counters are displayed (n for Arabic numerals, a for
> > lowercase letters and so forth), but the counter value depends on how
> > that level of that sequence was set in previous paragraphs and not by
> > how it was displayed previously. It is up to the user to make sure that
> > the same format is used consistently in all paragraphs.
> >
> > One way to "display" a counter is not to show it at all. That's done by
> > using a space instead of a visible character (such as n or a) for the
> > format. Lin is using the L sequence for items in lists with the first
> > level of that sequence for numbered items in the main list and the
> > second level of that sequence for lettered items in numbered lists. So
> > his L:< >\t, where the space between the first pair of angle
> > brackets is important, means to save but not display the value of the
> > first counter level and to increment and display the second level as a
> > letter. Without < >, the autonumber would be referring to the first
> > level and the numbers and letters for both list levels would be confused.
> >
> > Hope this helps,
> >
> >  --Lynne
> >
> > On 6/15/2021 5:09 AM, Lin Sims wrote:
> > > These are the contents of my Autonumbers for a similar list. I suspect
> > > you've not got your placeholders set up correctly.
> > >
> > > 1st Level, Reset: L:< =0>\t
> > > 1st Level: L:< =0>\t
> > > 2nd Level, Reset: L:< >\t
> > > 2nd Level: L:< >\t
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 8:11 PM DJ Layton 
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The second part of the numbered list seems to be incrementing the
> > >> ALPHABETIC value rather than the preceding NUMERIC value.
> > >>
> > >> I used the standard , , and ,  building blocks.
> > >> I cannot figure this out!!!
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > --
> > Lynne A. Price
> > Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
> > 

Re: [Framers] FM to PDF Text or Graphics Transparency Problem - JobOptions Issue (STS)

[Peter Gold]

Is the Assistant font non-standard in some way?

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 4:08 AM Orly Zimmerman  wrote:

> HI All,
> I'm running FM2020 on a Windows 10 system.
> My 4-page file (a brochure) includes some text (Fonts:
> kelson/assistant/etc) and graphics with transparencies.
> Due to this latest FM version, I can finally, easily create a matching PDF
> with lovely graphics.  (Background: In previous FM versions the
> transparencies were blacked or whited out. I could run do some fancy
> programming on the reference pages to fix, but this solution didn't work
> when I had too many graphics on the same page - it was complicated).
>
> Now my problem is that I can either get all the graphics right or all the
> text right, but apparently, not both.
> I use the "Publish" to PDF option.
>
>   *   When I use the Standard job option (or variation thereof) - the text
> comes out fine, but the transparencies for the figures is shot.
>   *   When I use the High Quality Print job option - the figures come out
> fine, but the text (some of the bulleted lines with "Assistant" text come
> out squished or even misplaced - it's very weird.
> How do I combine both of these into a single job option?
>
> Notes:
>
>   *   The Distiller PDF settings don't seem to know that the Assistant
> font is installed. But they are located in my Windows>Fonts folder
>   *   I have the FM>Print Setup>Properties: "Rely on System Fonts Only...
> " checkbox UNCHECKED
> Thanks,
> Orly
>
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages? and SetPrint Qs

[Peter Gold]

Thanks for the chuckle, Wendy. Since you're talking about lawyers here,
perhaps cite an episode of "The Good Wife," in which Nathan Lane's
character advises the all-hands-on-deck team that's buried in zillions of
pages of discovery documents, that the key information they'll need to win
the giant case, is probably buried in the footnotes. What volunteer
attorney-author would want his/her contribution and credit buried pages
distant from the source in main text?

This could be their chance to show that it's possible to serve justice and
good documentation layout at the same time. :)



On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 7:38 AM Wendy McGovern  wrote:

> I appreciate the feedback for my questions, especially the positive notes
> from Reng Winfried and Lin Sims about Frame 2020. (It helps to hear that
> somebody actually does have some good experience with the software.) I
> would like to try the free trial of the new version but don't know if our
> IT department has a nonproduction computer that I could put it on that
> wouldn't screw anything up with our current Frame.
>
> Thanks to those who have replied. I did have a good laugh at Peter Gold's
> note:  "When I've had to wrestle with this issue, if there was time, and
> willingness to cooperate, I'd try to work with the author to re-write or
> re-order the material." We're dealing with lawyers here-we can barely get
> them to submit materials in the first place, let alone revise (most of them
> are volunteer authors, so there is no incentive other than getting their
> name in the book and having contributed to the book as an expert on the
> topic).
>
> I actually had thought of SetPrint-does anyone know how to get a copy of
> it? We have just two people now, so that's all we would need. We're on
> Windows 10, Frame 7.0, using Acrobat X Pro. Does it have to be installed by
> an Admin or is it simply something we could put in the Frame software
> folder ourselves?
>
> Wendy McGovern
>
>
> [Pennsylvania Bar Institute]
>
>
> Wendy McGovern
> Publications Editor
> Pennsylvania Bar Institute
> www.pbi.org
>
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Peter Gold]

Argh... Ghosts and legacies of last-century engineering design. InDesign's
composition engine was born smart, and kept evolving. ID overall has gotten
closer and closer to FM technical authoring and book tool set.

But, the cost of migrating individual authors, tech-publishing departments,
and large legacy inventories, far outweigh most gains in convenience,
features, and typographic improvements.

One glimmer of possibly migrating comes from FM's new subscription model,
which obviates the cost of purchasing new standalone licenses.


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 4:38 PM Graeme R Forbes 
wrote:

> Klause Daube wrote: “Fact is:
> FM 16...just moves the whole note to be on the same page as the reference
> number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.”
>
> And it’s 2021. Extraordinary. It’s not as if Adobe doesn’t employ people
> who know how to do footnotes — they work fine in InDesign. So I guess that
> in FM you are still stuck with the early 90's technique of manually
> splitting using an anchored frame for the overflow.
>
> Graeme Forbes
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Peter Gold]

When I've had to wrestle with this issue, if there was time, and
willingness to cooperate, I'd try to work with the author to re-write or
re-order the material. Yes, madness, but doesn't page beauty someone's
justify it.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 2:03 AM Klaus Daube  wrote:

> On 8 Jun 2021 at 15:25, Wendy McGovern wrote:
>
> > I'm still a little skeptical, though, whether the new version actually
> "splits"
> > the footnote like Word does and puts part of the note on the next page or
> > whether the new Frame just moves the whole note to be on the same page
> as the
> > reference number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.
>
> Yes, Wendy it goes this way:
> Setting "Keep Footnote with Anchor" on Footnote Properties just does what
> You
> describe.
>
> Klaus
>
> ~~~
> Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
> Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
> CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Appallingly slow linked graphics

[Peter Gold]

You didn't say if the images are local or on a network. Local may load
quicker.

Have you considered a newer Mac OS, perhaps on a newer Mac, with
appropriate Parallels and Windows versions?

One other strategy, if the graphics are large, might be creating a
directory of low-resolution display versions, and swapping them when needed
for printing.

HTH

On Mon, Jun 7, 2021, 9:24 AM Steve Rickaby  wrote:

> I'm not sure if anyone will be using an archaic setup like mine, but here
> goes.
>
> FrameMaker 12 on Parallels Desktop under MacOS OS 9.
>
> It all works, but loading graphics (in this case JPEGs) imported by
> reference takes about a minute a graphic, making the whole thing unusable.
>
> I appreciate that I can turn off graphics display, but I wondered whether
> there was another solution, aside from dumping the whole idea and buying a
> Windows machine to run FrameMaker?
>
> --
> Steve
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Re: [Framers] "Visible" Variables

[Peter Gold]

You're welcome, Alison.

Thanks, Lynne, for confirming after all these years away from actual
hands-on FM, my memory still works, and so does FM. :)

Alison, Adobe listens to requests, just not here. I'm sure someone on the
list can provide the link to the enhancement portal.

OTOH, perhaps someone could provide a script for this task. Hint. :)


On Fri, May 28, 2021, 12:16 PM A Craig  wrote:

> Thanks Lynne and Peter.
>
> I'll probably go with a non-printing colour, but Adobe, if you're
> listening, this would be a great addition to the next revision of Frame!
> ;-
>
> Alison
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers [mailto:framers-bounces+acraig=shaw...@lists.frameusers.com]
> On Behalf Of Lynne A. Price
> Sent: May 27, 2021 5:44 PM
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] "Visible" Variables
>
> Alison,
>
> You can use Peter's approach. To apply a character format in the
> definition of a variable, put the character tag in angle brackets before
> the text; to go back to the previous character format use  Font> or . The Add/Edit Variable dialog includes a list of
> backet-enclosed character formats and  so you don't have
> to type them.
>
> If you don't want to bother defining a new color, you can maintain two
> files, each with a single entry in the character catalog, called something
> like VariableFormat. In one define VariableFormat to have the properties
> you want, in the other define VariableFormat to be AsIs for all properties;
> in the other define VariableFormat to have the properties you want while
> editing. Include   in the definition of every variable. To
> switch between the two views, import formats, selecting only character
> formats, from the appropriate file. By the way, to define a character
> format that doesn't change any properties, in the Character Designer, type
> Shift-F8.
>
>You could also use conditional text and apply a Variable condition to
> all variables with a global Find/Change. As needed, you can either change
> the condition indicator for the Variable condition, or show or hide
> condition indicators.
>
> The special color is the only one of these methods that doesn't
> require you to make an appropriate setting before printing.
>
>  --Lynne
>
> On 5/27/2021 5:01 PM, Peter Gold wrote:
> > I can't remember if variables can be defined with a character format.
> > If so, define a format with a color that you define as a non-printing
> > color in a color-definition set. If not, use Find to apply a format
> > with a non-printing color to the variables.
> >
> > On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 6:52 PM A Craig  wrote:
> >
> >> FrameMaker 2020
> >> Win 10, 64 bit
> >> Unstructured
> >>
> >> Word has the option to "Show Bookmarks" so they're always highlighted
> >> within the text (but of course they don't print).
> >>
> >> Does Frame have anything similar for variables?
> >>
> >> It would be great if I could look at a page of Frame text and
> >> immediately see which items were inserted as variables.
> >>
> >> Alison
>
> --
> Lynne A. Price
> Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
> Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development,
> and training
> lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
> voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284
>
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Re: [Framers] "Visible" Variables

[Peter Gold]

I can't remember if variables can be defined with a character format. If
so, define a format with a color that you define as a non-printing color in
a color-definition set. If not, use Find to apply a format with a
non-printing color to the variables.

On Thu, May 27, 2021 at 6:52 PM A Craig  wrote:

> FrameMaker 2020
> Win 10, 64 bit
> Unstructured
>
> Word has the option to "Show Bookmarks" so they're always highlighted
> within
> the text (but of course they don't print).
>
> Does Frame have anything similar for variables?
>
> It would be great if I could look at a page of Frame text and immediately
> see which items were inserted as variables.
>
> Alison
>
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Problems with cut off equations

[Peter Gold]

Any chance it's related to screen resolution, or a particular graphics
card?

On Tue, May 25, 2021, 11:21 AM Sheila Loring 
wrote:

> My team has a chronic  problem with equations in FrameMaker. They look fine
> in FrameMaker, but when converted to HTML in WebWorks ePublisher, the tops
> and/or bottoms of the equations are cut off so that you can't see the math
> symbols.
>
>
> Today I discovered that an equation looked cut off on my computer but
> looked fine on another writer's computer. But the problem can happen on
> anyone's computer.
>
>
>
> At one point, I thought the solution was to add 12 points of space around
> the equations with a FrameScript. That worked beautifully a few times. Now
> the problem is back.
>
>
> The computer I'm generating the help on has 52GB of free space and Intel(R)
> Xeon(R) Gold 6148 CPU @ 2.40GHz 2.39 GHz processors. That seems like enough
> space and processor speed so that hardware isn't an issue.
>
>
>
> Has anyone run into this problem? We're using unstructured FrameMaker 2015.
> All of the writers are using the same fonts. We've tried unshrinkwrapping
> and reshrinkwrapping. And like I said, adding 12 points of space around the
> equations (inside the frames) helped only temporarily.
>
>
> Sheila Loring
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Re: [Framers] A bizarre cross-reference issue

[Peter Gold]

To Craig's point about informing template users (including my own future
self,) about gotchas, I used to place short conditionalized informative
notes in margin areas on master pages. The notes were turned on in the
saved templates, so they would not be missed on first use. If needed, they
would point to the location of detailed template documentation.

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021, 10:08 AM Craig Ede  wrote:

> Rick’s suggestion highlights one of the pitfalls of FrameMaker’s tagging
> system. If you overlay a character tag with another character tag, you may
> get a mix of characteristics in the text depending on the settings for each
> of the character tags. Anything left “As Is” in the second applied tag will
> retain the earlier tag’s setting (if it differs from the paragraph
> settings). However, if you search on the first char tag name, FM will not
> find it in any text where another char tag has overlaid it, so you lost the
> ability to search effectively for a tag. You’re then stuck with modifying
> such text by doing a search for character tag overrides.
>
> Much better to foresee what combinations of characteristics might occur
> and create separate ‘combo tags’ that do all the things you might want done
> to the text. Just remember to have a template usage guide that gives your
> writers this info so that they don’t subvert the intent by just overlaying
> two tags.
>
> Craig
>
> 
> From: Framers 
> on behalf of r...@rickquatro.com 
> Instead of applying two character formats, I would suggest that you
> make a
> single character format called SuperscriptLink (or something like that)
> that
> has both the superscript position and your link color. This should be more
> reliable than applying two separate character formats to the number.
>
> Rick Quatro
>
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Re: [Framers] Overprint Not Working in FrameMaker 10 and Acrobat Pro 2017

[Peter Gold]

I’m just wondering if your concern is in regard to printing on a printer
you control, or a print vendor. Registration IIRC relates to print
processes that involve multiple passes (AKA the old way.) Have you found
issues with misregistration on printers you control, or your client's
printers? If the job will go to a print provider, ask them what they need
you to supply.

HTH

On Wed, Apr 14, 2021 at 1:26 PM Mike Wickham  wrote:

> In the meantime, I believe I've found the sad answer to my question.
> Overprint settings only work when printing _separations_ to PDF. This is
> ridiculous! They should work on composite PDFs, too!
>
> So, in the end, creating an Overprint Black color definition,and
> assigning it to appropriate paragraph formats on the body page and to
> the line rules on the master page is all that is necessary. It just does
> not work with composite PDFs. Does anyone send separations to their
> printer, rather than a composite PDF in this day and age?
>
> Mike Wickham
> >> Hi, all,
> >>
> >> I'm having issues getting overprint settings to work. I have a document
> >> that has a full-page, solid-color graphic imported and filling the
> >> entire master page background. So the page is not white, but has a
> >> color. I want to overprint black text on it, rather than have the text
> >> knockout the background and risk registration issues at press time. But
> >> I cannot get overprint to work. The text keeps knocking out the
> >> background. Here is what I have done:
> >>
> >> 1. I created a color definition called Overprint Black, set to Process,
> >> CMYK, 0% CMY and 100% black, and Overprint.
> >>
> >> 2. I assigned Overprint Black as the text color for all text formats on
> >> the body page. I thought this would be enough, but it wasn't so, I did
> >> the following in progressive steps.
> >>
> >> 3. On the master page, I set Object Properties of all text frames and
> >> the background EPS graphic to Overprint. I found some Adobe help that
> >> says that EPS files don't overprint, so I tried with a TIF background
> >> graphic instead. Same result.
> >>
> >> 4. On the reference page, I set the Object Properties of the Single Line
> >> background frame item (there are a couple of these on the page) to
> >> Color: Overprint Black and Overprint: Overprint.
> >>
> >> So I have text color, text frames, and even the graphic (though it is
> >> behind everything) set to overprint. I expect text and single line rules
> >> to overprint the colored background graphic. But they all knock out the
> >> background graphic.
> >>
> >> Using File>Print with printer set to Adobe PDF (with and without print
> >> to file) I generate a complete PDF, using FrameMaker 10 and Acrobat
> >> 2017. The PDF is beautiful, but the Object Inspector in Acrobat shows
> >> "Overprint=False" for everything. And if I look at separations, the
> >> non-black plates are, indeed, knocked out.
> >>
> >> I have been away from FrameMaker for a while, so am a little rusty. What
> >> am I missing? Why is Overprint not working?
> >>
> >> Mike Wickham
> >> ___
> >>
> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >>
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Re: [Framers] Processing time

[Peter Gold]

You never know when attempting to speak for others, if you'll be right for
all of them. Just to set things right, Steve, I thank you for saying that!
:) The first FM I saw was v3 on a Mac in 1989. I took it personally when
Adobe stopped advancing FM Mac development. However, I’m pleased that
InDesign advanced mightily over the years in almost all the features I
valued most in FM.

Nostalgia isn't what it once was, I guess, but it came close for me the
other day. I happened upon Steven Fry's Guttenberg Press YouTube video, in
which he traces the evolution of the machine in a way that resembles the
patient slog that many long-time FM users have experienced while waiting to
see our feature suggestions and bug-fix requests come to reality in new
releases.


> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Steve Rickaby
> Sent: Wednesday, April 7, 2021 11:59 AM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Processing time
>
> Although I rarely use FrameMaker these days, I have read this discussion
> with interest.
>
> No-one is going to thank me for saying this, but doing heavy lifting with
> structured documents in PowerPC Frame v 7 on a 2003 Mac, I never noticed
> any performance issues. Odd.
>
> Of course the app is much more capable now. Isn't it?
>
> --
> Steve
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Processing time

[Peter Gold]

Yes, find the bottleneck first, if possible, then upgrade to fix the known
problem. In the last century, one new FM UNIX release was extremely
sluggish in any operation that involved printers. Of course, formating FM
text for the screen involves the printer. The culprit turned out to be a
routine that polled every printer on the enterprise's network, every chance
it got! Relatively easy to fix, once the high activity was isolated.

On Tue, Apr 6, 2021, 6:25 PM Robert Lauriston  wrote:

> Don't spend money upgrading any of the hardware without using Task
> Manager to see where the bottleneck is.
>
> On Tue, Apr 6, 2021 at 2:53 PM Art Campbell 
> wrote:
> >
> > Your machine is kind of light weight for intensive publishing. I'd
> > definitely try to boost the RAM. ...
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Re: [Framers] Help with setting up a paragraph tag in the TOC

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Lynne! I think that's what I suggested generally. Your specificity is
much more helpful!

On Mon, Mar 15, 2021, 11:48 AM Lynne A. Price  wrote:

> Tammy,
>
> If I understand the issue, you are trying to make a single TOC entry
> that has the autonumber of the SectionNumber paragraph followed by the
> text of the SectionTitle paragraph. The format of one TOC entry cannot
> include information from multiple paragraphs (or elements in a
> structured document). However, you can create two entries that appear on
> one line by making the first one a run-in head. In your case, you can
> enter SectionNumber in the TOC, using <$paranum> and formatting that
> paragraph as a run-in head. Also enter SectionTitle in the TOC using
> <$paratext>. As long as all sections are consistent in the use of both
> paragraphs at the beginning, the result should be what you want.
>
>  --Lynne
>
> On 3/15/2021 8:36 AM, tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com wrote:
> > SectionNumber is an auto-numbered tag used within a chapter file
> > whereas the tag that immediately follows, SectionTitle, is not
> > auto-numbered. The numbering is not at the file level such as with
> > $Chapnum, so <$sectionnum>  is not an option.
>
> --
> Lynne A. Price
> Text Structure Consulting, Inc.
> Specializing in structured FrameMaker consulting, application development,
> and training
> lpr...@txstruct.comhttp://www.txstruct.com
> voice/fax: (510) 583-1505  cell phone: (510) 421-2284
>
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Re: [Framers] Help with setting up a paragraph tag in the TOC

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Tammy:

The first thing that comes to my senior FM'ers mind is that your TOC
formats might be failing because perhaps your scheme is trying to
recalculate autonumbering in the generated TOC, instead of simply
extracting the numbering from the chapter file paragraphs.

I've always been a little worse at trying to debug someone else's
problematic autonumbering, than at debugging my own. That's when I referred
to various postings and examples. So, I tried a search for "examples of
framemaker book autonumbering" and found plenty of old familiar stuff. If
you haven't tried it, see if there are any useful memory triggers in the
search results.

HTH


On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:27 PM  wrote:

> OK,
>
>
>
> Please have pity on my senior mind. It's been sooo long since I
> have had to set certain formats up from scratch in Framemaker, that I am
> just going bonkers trying to remember how I did something before. Here's my
> current conundrum:
>
>
>
> On the first page of each chapter, I have the following tags:
>
> 1.  ChapterNumber, with the numbering set to N:Chapter <$chapnum>. At
> the book level, I set Chapter Numbering to 1 for the first chapter in the
> book, and Continue numbering from previous chapter for all subsequent
> chapters. The tag is set to start at the top of a page.
> 2.  ChapterTitle, which immediately follows ChapterNumber, and is set
> to
> Keep with Previous Paragraph.
>
>
>
>
>
> In each of my chapters in a book, I have Sections. The Sections are denoted
> with a special master page layout that is different from the first page of
> the chapter. On this page, I use several paragraph tags including the
> following:
>
> 1.  Section Number, with the numbering set to the following: S:Section
> . The tag is set to start at the top of a page.
> 2.  Section Title. This is the tag that immediately follows
> SectionNumber. This tag is set to keep with the previous paragraph.
>
> At the book level, I have paragraph tag numbering to start over for each
> chapter, so the first time I use SectionNumber in a chapter, it is
> numbering
> correctly as Section 1, and then followed by Section 2, etc.
>
>
>
> For my TOC, I have selected the requisite tags, including ChapterTitle and
> SectionTitle.
>
> 1.  For my ChapterTitleTOC tag, here is the format:  Chapter
> <$chapnum>:
> <$paratext>. . . . .<$pagenum> and I get the following output for example:
> Chapter 1: Wiggle the Widget. . . . . . 17.
>
>
>
> I need to set up an analogous SectionTitleTOC tag : Section 1: Section
> Title
> contents, Section 2: Section Title contents, etc., and I guess I am missing
> the boat on this one. I can go through all the iterations that I have
> tried,
> but no matter what I try, I wind up with the following:
>
>
>
> Section:  .
>
>
>
> I cannot get the section number to show up after the word "Section" like I
> can for ChapterTitle. I am sure it's because the <$chapnum> is a book-level
> variable vs. paragraph tag numbering for SectionNumber, but I am at a loss
> to understand any further.  If any of you gurus out there can point me to
> what I am doing wrong, and provide some insight, I would be most
> appreciative. I had this working ages ago in another manual, but that
> manual
> is no longer in my possession, so I can't refer to it for clarification.
>
>
>
> TIA,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tammy Van Boening
>
> Tammy dot vanboening at spectrumwritingllc dot com
>
> www.spectrumwritingllc.com
>
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Keyboard shortcut to jump to next footnote text flow?

[Peter Gold]

To recast Steinbeck's preacher at the end of "The Grapes of Wrath": "We're
all part of that one big FrameMaker soul. Whenever someone in the FM
community calls out, befuddled, they'll be heard, and help will come." :)

On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 5:10 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Ah, right, I always forget about those. F6, I think, will repeat the last
> action taken.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 3:27 PM Peter Gold 
> wrote:
>
> > I *k*n*o*w* that many of us share that Framer's gene that wants never to
> > believe that something can't be done, and that by co-mingling bits and
> > scraps of tips and tricks, there *I*S* a way. So, here's my wild stab:
> >
> > I seem to remember there's an Escape-key command sequence to repeat the
> > previous action or find. So keep that in mind.
> >
> > Then, I also seem to remember learning, by examining a  MIF file, that FM
> > stores footnotes and other text that's not exactly in a named text flow,
> > separately, at the end of the document. I suspect that there's an
> > identifier mechanism similar to the one that manages X-refs, that handles
> > footnotes. Perhaps there's a hidden character or code that marks
> footnotes,
> > and possibly it's searchable. If so, seek and seek again.
> >
> > If this route comes to nothing, and it's really important to be able to
> do
> > this, consider marking footnotes with a hidden searchable
> > character-formatted character, or incorporating the format in the
> footnote
> > definition.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 12:58 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> > > As far as I know, FM never had a keyboard shortcut for that. I checked
> > > Klaus's shortcuts list and there's nothing like it there. You can use a
> > > keyboard shortcut to open the Find/Replace, obviously, but the rest is
> > > going to be using the tab and arrow keys.
> > >
> > > You could try asking Rick Quatro or one of the other uber-scripters.
> They
> > > might be able to come up with something for you.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:43 PM Harding, Dan 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Sadly, the entire point of the exercise is to avoid having to reach
> for
> > > > the mouse. I'm very keyboard-centric in my work, especially
> repetitive
> > > > tasks. While searching for type "Footnote" does indeed highlight the
> > next
> > > > footnote (both in-text reference and text of the footnote itself),
> when
> > > you
> > > > press Shift-F7 to release focus from the search dialogue, your focus
> is
> > > > back in the body text, not in the footnote itself, which
> unfortunately
> > > > doesn't help.
> > > >
> > > > I hate that software has become so "clicky" as opposed to being able
> to
> > > > fully navigate via keyboard.
> > > >
> > > > #oldmancomplaining
> > > >
> > > > -Dan
> > > >
> > > > -Original Message-
> > > > From: Framers  > > illinois@lists.frameusers.com>
> > > > On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> > > > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:17 AM
> > > > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> > > > framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > > > Subject: Re: [Framers] Keyboard shortcut to jump to next footnote
> text
> > > > flow?
> > > >
> > > > I don't believe so, no, but if you're already at the bottom of the
> > page,
> > > > you can just click in it. However, I believe you can search for
> > Footnotes
> > > > without specifying a paragraph style since "Footnote" is one of the
> > > options
> > > > in the Find drop-down. I'm pretty certain it's not looking for the
> > > > paragraph style but for the special insert of footnotes, whether text
> > or
> > > > table.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 11:05 AM Harding, Dan 
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Is there a FrameMaker keyboard shortcut to jump to the next
> footnote
> > > > > text flow at the bottom of a page or across pages?
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't mean jump to the next footnote reference in the page text,
> > but
> > > > > rather the next footnote text at the bottom of the page. Assume
> that
> > > > > paragraph styles are not used consistently in the document, and
> thus

Re: [Framers] Keyboard shortcut to jump to next footnote text flow?

[Peter Gold]

I *k*n*o*w* that many of us share that Framer's gene that wants never to
believe that something can't be done, and that by co-mingling bits and
scraps of tips and tricks, there *I*S* a way. So, here's my wild stab:

I seem to remember there's an Escape-key command sequence to repeat the
previous action or find. So keep that in mind.

Then, I also seem to remember learning, by examining a  MIF file, that FM
stores footnotes and other text that's not exactly in a named text flow,
separately, at the end of the document. I suspect that there's an
identifier mechanism similar to the one that manages X-refs, that handles
footnotes. Perhaps there's a hidden character or code that marks footnotes,
and possibly it's searchable. If so, seek and seek again.

If this route comes to nothing, and it's really important to be able to do
this, consider marking footnotes with a hidden searchable
character-formatted character, or incorporating the format in the footnote
definition.

HTH




On Mon, Mar 8, 2021, 12:58 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> As far as I know, FM never had a keyboard shortcut for that. I checked
> Klaus's shortcuts list and there's nothing like it there. You can use a
> keyboard shortcut to open the Find/Replace, obviously, but the rest is
> going to be using the tab and arrow keys.
>
> You could try asking Rick Quatro or one of the other uber-scripters. They
> might be able to come up with something for you.
>
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 1:43 PM Harding, Dan  wrote:
>
> > Sadly, the entire point of the exercise is to avoid having to reach for
> > the mouse. I'm very keyboard-centric in my work, especially repetitive
> > tasks. While searching for type "Footnote" does indeed highlight the next
> > footnote (both in-text reference and text of the footnote itself), when
> you
> > press Shift-F7 to release focus from the search dialogue, your focus is
> > back in the body text, not in the footnote itself, which unfortunately
> > doesn't help.
> >
> > I hate that software has become so "clicky" as opposed to being able to
> > fully navigate via keyboard.
> >
> > #oldmancomplaining
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Framers  illinois@lists.frameusers.com>
> > On Behalf Of Lin Sims
> > Sent: Monday, March 8, 2021 11:17 AM
> > To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> > framers@lists.frameusers.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Framers] Keyboard shortcut to jump to next footnote text
> > flow?
> >
> > I don't believe so, no, but if you're already at the bottom of the page,
> > you can just click in it. However, I believe you can search for Footnotes
> > without specifying a paragraph style since "Footnote" is one of the
> options
> > in the Find drop-down. I'm pretty certain it's not looking for the
> > paragraph style but for the special insert of footnotes, whether text or
> > table.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 11:05 AM Harding, Dan 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Is there a FrameMaker keyboard shortcut to jump to the next footnote
> > > text flow at the bottom of a page or across pages?
> > >
> > > I don't mean jump to the next footnote reference in the page text, but
> > > rather the next footnote text at the bottom of the page. Assume that
> > > paragraph styles are not used consistently in the document, and thus
> > > cannot be searched for as a workaround.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -Dan
> > > ___
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Re: [Framers] Adobe Flash Player EOL - How can I still embed video in FM documents saved as PDFs?

[Peter Gold]

If Flash still runs on your machine, can it export the videos to a more
common embeddable format?

If it can't export, perhaps you can run the videos in Flash on your machine
and record them with another tool. Yeah, lots of work, but probably easier
than starting from scratch.

If the existing tutorials are interactive and take user input, well...

On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 1:44 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> You could also try Snagit, which does desktop video capturing and outputs
> to mp4 format. I think Techsmith's Camtasia is a more full-fledged video
> software, but I've never used it.
>
> On Thu, Jan 14, 2021 at 9:54 AM Tom Beiswenger <
> tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com> wrote:
>
> > I guess I knew this was coming, but when Adobe killed Flash, no
> > alternative was offered. This potentially means that all of the digital
> > editions of our manuals that include video tutorials no longer work. Is
> > there another solution for embedding video in FrameMaker. For reference,
> > I'm using FM12 running on Windows 10.
> >
> >
> >
> > Tom Beiswenger
> > Project Manager, Manager IB Technical Documentation
> > [cid:726007024546]
> > Emhart Glass Inc.
> > 74 Kahler Road North * Horseheads NY 14845 * USA
> > Telephone 1 607 735 2551 * Mobile +1 607 769 4779
> > Fax +1 607 735 2601
> > tom.beiswen...@emhartglass.com
> > www.bucheremhartglass.com
> > www.bucherindustries.com
> > Privacy Policy: www.bucheremhartglass.com/privacy<
> > http://www.bucheremhartglass.com/privacy>
> >
> > -- next part --
> > A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> > Name: image001.png
> > Type: image/png
> > Size: 11081 bytes
> > Desc: image001.png
> > URL: <
> >
> http://lists.frameusers.com/pipermail/framers-frameusers.com/attachments/20210114/0206203f/attachment.png
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Re: [Framers] Rendering embedded Visio with shading/pattern fill from FM to PDF problem

[Peter Gold]

Lin, does FM recognize that imported reduced file size - by copy or
reference - PDFs as smaller?

On Wed, Dec 30, 2020, 4:43 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> I can tell you that exporting the Visio to PDF works perfectly. The export
> to SVG less so: as long as there are no stencil objects or grouped objects,
> the SVG works. If there are objects added from stencils or if you group
> anything, you'll find parts of objects moved all over the place. I believe
> the developers have been trying to solve this for a while (I have a bug
> report and they've contacted me about it), but I don't know yet if they've
> fixed it. PDFs tend to blow up the file size, even when imported by
> reference, but at least they work!
>
> I have a vague memory of trying to open an SVG created by Visio in
> Illustrator and seeing the same issue. I don't know if that means it's an
> issue with the Visio export (which would not surprise me, as Microsoft is
> notorious for "customizing" things so they only work properly in their own
> products) or an issue with import by Adobe products. I do know that the SVG
> created by Visio export displays just fine in any browser I've opened them
> in.
>
> On Wed, Dec 30, 2020 at 2:15 PM Simon Buch  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > The last time I tried using Microsoft Visio OLE objects with
> > FrameMaker was quite some years ago, and produced poor results while
> > printing.  It turns out that Microsoft Office can handle OLE objects,
> > but almost nothing else.
> >
> > At the time, WordPad [write.exe] was the Microsoft approved
> > application for testing OLE, and produced very poor results -
> > especially in diagrams with clouds and shadows.
> >
> > The solution was fairly easy - export Visio to a file format that
> > other applications can use, and pick the one that works best. This was
> > by far the easiest way so that every file could be version controlled
> > and managed well.
> >
> > Typically, if problems are reported in FrameMaker, I like to see how
> > other applications handle the content - and often don't.
> >
> > Regards
> > // Simon BUCH -- M-AIS
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 27 Dec 2020 at 22:02, Orly Zimmerman  wrote:
> > >
> > > HI All, I'm currently running FM16 - 2020 via the Adobe Technical
> > Suite.I have a number of Visio's embedded in my chapters. I've noticed
> that
> > if some of the Visio items use shading or pattern fills, this does not
> > translate well to PDF. (I get black or white boxes completely
> obliterating
> > parts of the image).Maybe I'm using the wrong PDF setting to get these to
> > show properly ?Or is it that I just can't use Visio OLE objects with
> > shading/pattern fill via FM?
> > >
> > > Also, the OLE image, viewed in the FM itself is a little off, but the
> > PDF is completely illegible.Any ideas?
> > >
> > > Thanks and Happy Holidays to all!Orly
> > >
> > > ___
> > >
> > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > >
> > > Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] AFrames Below and Left

[Peter Gold]

My last FM experience was long before object styles were added, so this is
just a wild stab: is it possible to specify an aFrame 
object style in MAKER.INI?

On Mon, Dec 21, 2020, 11:49 AM Sparky Anderson 
wrote:

> I've tried to update my MAKER.INI "Preferences" section with the following
> to make image AFrames to default to Below Current Line and Left aligned,
> but the default stubbornly remains Below Current Line Center aligned.  I'm
> using Frame 2017.  Are the following commands still supported?
>
> ImageImportAnchorPosition=below
> ImageImportAnchorAlign=left
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Re: [Framers] Basic question: hyperlinks to paragraphs

[Peter Gold]

I like the part where it's revealed that memory isn't always accurate when
there's time to fact-check it. How familiar that is for me.

The good side is that doggedly chasing possible solutions often reveals new
insights through serendipity. Giving up early just plain isn't fun, but it
helps to meet one's deadline! :)

On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 6:15 PM Syed Zaeem Hosain 
wrote:

> Hi, Bertrand.
>
> (Sending this to the list to note what I did for my doc.)
>
> I have sent you the original FrameMaker book that I used, but I don't
> think it will be a great answer for you! I opened this book on my other
> system that has FM, and I see that I used the hypertext "newlink ..." and
> "gotolink ..." mechanism to make it work in the PDF.
>
> Acrobat Pro will then output these as links in the PDF. (As a side-note,
> other PDF generation tools will not work with FrameMaker to create links in
> this manner though - that was the one test that has failed in my search for
> a replacement for Adobe Acrobat!)
>
> I downloaded your Eiffel specification and I see that the amount of manual
> work would be quite enormous ... even with brute-force global
> search-and-replace approaches (which is what I now remember doing for my
> much smaller document).
>
> And, of course, you had mentioned this issue in your original post.
>
> So, you may want to get Rick Quatro (one of the first responses to the
> list) to develop a script to automate this - perhaps with an input control
> file of all the terms (which could be easy to generate from the definition
> paragraphs you mentioned) for that brute-force search-and-replace.
>
> If you asked him to make the solution general enough, it could be
> something you could re-use easily in the future for this spec too.
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 1:04 PM
> To: An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software. <
> framers@lists.frameusers.com>; bertrand.me...@inf.ethz.ch; 'Shmuel
> Wolfson' 
> Cc: me...@inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Basic question: hyperlinks to paragraphs
>
> Okay, I found the PDF, but on this system, I don't have FrameMaker
> running, so I am not sure what I did (was eleven years ago ... and we went
> to an on-line version afterwards!). I _think_ it was cross-references in
> FrameMaker ...
>
> Bertrand, I can send the PDF to you to show the result if you want (not to
> the list, since it will drop attachments) - if this is what you want to do,
> please let me know and I will look for that FM book on another system.
>
> In this PDF, I did not underline the words, but the cursor changes in
> Acrobat (to show that clicking on the word will take you elsewhere within
> the document). Underlining would have been easy enough to add as well
> though.
>
> Z
>
> As a completely separate BTW, if you put an underscore before and after
> the word in emails (see -->), _some_ email systems will underline that word
> in the email. The '*' makes it show in bold.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Syed Zaeem Hosain
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 12:52 PM
> To: bertrand.me...@inf.ethz.ch; An email list for people using Adobe
> FrameMaker software. ; 'Shmuel Wolfson' <
> shmue...@gmail.com>
> Cc: me...@inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Basic question: hyperlinks to paragraphs
>
> Hmmm, I seem to recall doing this in FrameMaker ... I will see if I can
> find that document and remember how I did it.
>
> Used it in a glossary doc, so I may be able to send it along since it is
> not proprietary information.
>
> Z
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Framers 
> On Behalf Of Bertrand Meyer
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 5:13 AM
> To: 'Shmuel Wolfson' ; 'An email list for people
> using Adobe FrameMaker software.' 
> Cc: me...@inf.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [Framers] Basic question: hyperlinks to paragraphs
>
> No. Let me explain. This is the text of a language standard (the previous
> version is an ISO standard, International Standards Organization). It is
> written very rigorously. (It is the result of many years of laborious
> effort by many people.) See
> https://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-367.htm.
> Some words have their ordinary meanings and others have meanings introduced
> with a rigorous definition in the standard itself. In the previous version,
> such words are underlined. For example, a sentence such as
>
> This particular beast might be a *cat* or it might be a *dog* or
> it might be an *unclassified* beast.
>
> (I have the impression that the remailer removes underlining so I am using
> asterisks, as in *underlined_word*, instead.) The example sentence uses
> underlining to expressthat the underlined notions, "cat", "dog" and
> "unclassified", have a formal definition somewhere in the text.
>
> Quite understandably, people have started to ask that all such underlined
> elements should be links to the corresponding 

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

Thanks for persevering on this issue, Lin. Good to hear that it's paying
off in Adobe's finally giving what seems serious attention to the kind of
seemingly-trivial problem that's really a serious flaw.

Back in the day, I spent a few weeks tracking-down a consistent product
misbehavior that gave different results when a user created a data query
that applied two sort operations before or after the other. None of the
technical experts who'd developed the product I interviewed, could explain
why the equivalent queries returned different results. I finally uncovered
notes in the SQL industry standards documents that this company's early
design statements acknowledged they would include language extensions known
to allow such non-standard behavior.

There fix in documentation was, "expect different results from such
queries." D'OH! :)

On Fri, Sep 25, 2020, 4:09 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> For those who may (or may not) be interested, I tried creating a PDF from
> the same TOC file after substituting different fonts in. The PDF generated
> from the TOCs using either Open Sans or Calibri were even WORSE than the
> one created using Source Sans Pro. However, the one generated from a TOC
> using ARIAL as the font generated perfectly. It must be some interaction
> between the font and the PDF engine.
>
> I had a coworker try to generate a PDF from the original TOC using the
> Source Sans Pro and he got the same result I did, so it is not just my
> machine having the issue. An Adobe developer contact me today about this
> and requested sample files, which I have sent. Here's hoping someone comes
> up with a clue on what is happening and why!
>
> On Fri, Sep 18, 2020 at 8:09 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
>
> > The last time I was successful was August 2019 and I was using FM2019, so
> > yes, that's changed.
> > Acrobat is on subscription, so that's changed.
> > Windows has updated a time or two, so that's changed.
> > This is the only document this is happening in, but it's also the only
> > document using the word "Software" in a heading that's pulled into the
> TOC.
> >
> > There's not a lot I can do about any of those changes, and as long as the
> > tried and true File > Print Book works, I've a viable workaround. It's
> just
> > that it's a long time to process viable workaround.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 17, 2020 at 7:14 PM Peter Gold 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe FrameMaker
> >> forum
> >> > from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this thread
> >> and
> >> > the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but this
> is
> >> > such an oddball occurrence ...
> >> >
> >> > The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from this
> >> > document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked perfectly with
> >> Save
> >> > As PDF.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms after
> >> years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause is the
> >> body's
> >> changed. So, since the last time you were successful with your same
> >> workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM? Or the font? Or
> the
> >> internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket science, but it is science.
> :)
> >> ___
> >>
> >> This message is from the Framers mailing list
> >>
> >> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
> >> Visit the list's homepage at  http://www.frameusers.com
> >> Archives located at
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> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lin Sims
> >
>
>
> --
> Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at 3:31 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Sometimes they do, and they also wander through the Adobe FrameMaker forum
> from time to time. I might ping Amitoj and ask him to read this thread and
> the concurrent thread there. Or enter a bug in the tracker, but this is
> such an oddball occurrence ...
>
> The really weird thing is that the last time I created a PDF from this
> document was in August 2019, with FM2019, and it worked perfectly with Save
> As PDF.
>

I learned from my doctors that if you're having different symptoms after
years on the same doses of the same meds, sometimes the cause is the body's
changed. So, since the last time you were successful with your same
workflow, has Windows been upgraded or patched, or FM? Or the font? Or the
internal FM>PDF stuff? Hey, it's not rocket science, but it is science. :)
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Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

IMO, a rounding error in the Save As > PDF vs Print > PDF, from your
assiduous testing and reporting, seems the most likely.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020, 9:13 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> There were two markers in the source paragraphs, one for the TOC xref link
> and one for an Index marker. I moved the Index marker. No good.
>
> There was a hard space between the word Pulse and the word Software. I took
> it out and replaced it with a regular space. Also no good.
>
> I deleted and RETYPED the heading. STILL no good.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "source fields", but if you're talking about the
> reference page setting up the TOC, I'm pretty sure that would have been
> cleared out by my removing the old TOC file and creating a new one using a
> known-good template for the TOC.
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 5:27 PM Steve Rickaby 
> wrote:
>
> > At 16:46 -0400 11/9/20, Lin Sims wrote:
> >
> > >This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC,
> they
> > >look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> > >paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they are
> > >the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
> > >headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> > >
> > >I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If anyone
> > >has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.
> >
> > Check that you haven't accidentally embedded any invisible characters in
> > the source fields for the TOC.
> >
> > >There appears to be something about the actual word "Software" that the
> > PDF engine is having a conniption about.
> >
> > Well, who wouldn't'? :-) Try another word?
> >
> > --
> > Steve
> > ___
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Re: [Framers] Fwd: Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

TOCs are generated, so perhaps there's some indicator in the file or the
properties it assigns to content, that makes the PDF conversion processors
work differently. Obviously your results prove that the different routes to
PDF do work differently. Just wondering in your copious free time if you've
tried creating a few new instances of problem content in the problem source
file that would be extracted to a TOC, and observing if the problem always
occurs. That would make a great package of evidence to sent to the
bug-fixers.

(Thinks: Yeah, it'll go at the end of the list that's been growing since
FM3.)

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 2:34 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> I dunno. I mean, obviously the problem lies with the PDF generation, but I
> suspect the fact that it messed up the one word (twice!), but only in the
> TOC is not going to be enough for anyone to figure out what the issue is.
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 3:14 PM Peter Gold 
> wrote:
>
> > Well, now that you've discovered the exact pathway to that creates the
> > error, of course you're going to report it, so it gets on the list of
> fixes
> > needed. You can see my long memory as evidenced by recalling the
> automatic
> > replacement of InterLeaf.
> >
> > This reminds me of something a little longer back: (BTW, this is not just
> > an old guy showing off he's still cooking upstairs, by dredging up random
> > old stuff, it's pertinent here!) I worked at a database software company
> > that rocketed to fame and riches around the same time Frame Technology
> and
> > Adobe did. However, it's long-gone. A couple of years after I got
> laid-off
> > with a few thousand others, when the company had gone into several
> > tailspins because management had overruled QA and released
> supremely-buggy
> > products which lost customers' faith, I met someone who told me he'd been
> > the last project manager on the product. He'd been called in "to fix the
> > problems in quality, for good, this time, and get the company back on
> > track." He told me that the first place he started was with meeting the
> > developers and digging into the most-commonly known bugs and irritants.
> > First on the list was the odd differences with how the built-in text
> editor
> > that was used to enter command-line commands, enter data into database
> > fields, design the database files, and write and edit code, depending on
> > how the user invoked it. "So, I asked, 'who's responsible for this
> editor,'
> > and 35 hands went up." The problem was that it was so easy to write an
> > editor, that there was no single spec for it. Every developer who needed
> > one in his or her modules just wrote one on the spot, and, of course,
> > didn't document it, "because everybody know how to do it, so why bother?
> > So, that's when I left."
> >
> > It looks like when the TOC source material is processed differently into
> > PDF by Print > PDF vs. Save As > PDF. Same kind of problem.
> >
> > Glad you've identified and solved the issue so you can move ahead, and
> also
> > good that you've shared it with the community.
> >
>
>
> --
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[Framers] Fwd: Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

Well, now that you've discovered the exact pathway to that creates the
error, of course you're going to report it, so it gets on the list of fixes
needed. You can see my long memory as evidenced by recalling the automatic
replacement of InterLeaf.

This reminds me of something a little longer back: (BTW, this is not just
an old guy showing off he's still cooking upstairs, by dredging up random
old stuff, it's pertinent here!) I worked at a database software company
that rocketed to fame and riches around the same time Frame Technology and
Adobe did. However, it's long-gone. A couple of years after I got laid-off
with a few thousand others, when the company had gone into several
tailspins because management had overruled QA and released supremely-buggy
products which lost customers' faith, I met someone who told me he'd been
the last project manager on the product. He'd been called in "to fix the
problems in quality, for good, this time, and get the company back on
track." He told me that the first place he started was with meeting the
developers and digging into the most-commonly known bugs and irritants.
First on the list was the odd differences with how the built-in text editor
that was used to enter command-line commands, enter data into database
fields, design the database files, and write and edit code, depending on
how the user invoked it. "So, I asked, 'who's responsible for this editor,'
and 35 hands went up." The problem was that it was so easy to write an
editor, that there was no single spec for it. Every developer who needed
one in his or her modules just wrote one on the spot, and, of course,
didn't document it, "because everybody know how to do it, so why bother?
So, that's when I left."

It looks like when the TOC source material is processed differently into
PDF by Print > PDF vs. Save As > PDF. Same kind of problem.

Glad you've identified and solved the issue so you can move ahead, and also
good that you've shared it with the community.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 1:23 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Spellcheck did indeed used to replace Interleaf with FrameMaker, but I
> don't think it does anymore.
>
> When it converts from Frame to PDF, that will make the link unclickable.
> Also, I really don't want to have to apply a character tag to text created
> in a generated document every time I regenerate the TOC. Acrobat PDF is
> supposed to make an output that looks exactly like the input.
>
> I should add (shouldn't I?) that the conversion from FM to PDF of the
> actual chapters do NOT show that weird spacing for the word "Software".
> Only in the TOC. Only those two lines.
>
> I've reinstalled Acrobat DC. I've MIF-washed. I've used both the Save as
> PDF (my usual route) and the Publish pod. They are all producing the same
> result.
>
> Ah! But printing the book using Adobe PDF *WORKED*! (That'd be File > Print
> Book). I believe that uses Distiller directly or something? I forget. But
> it worked!
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 1:32 PM Peter Gold 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi, Lin:
> >
> > AHA! It's a secret plot of some kind. I remember there was a time long
> ago,
> > when FM's auto-correct would replace "InterLeaf" or some other
> proprietary
> > competitor, with "FrameMaker."
> >
> > The word-spacing computation might have a rounding error when it
> encounters
> > specific glyph combinations in this particular font. Perhaps substitute a
> > similar font for the problematic word(s) or adjust the kerning or
> > letter-spacing, perhaps by applying a character format that sets one or
> the
> > other or both properties.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 11:58 AM Lin Sims  wrote:
> >
> > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > > > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > > > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it,
> etc.
> > Is
> > > > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific
> > glyph
> > > > pairs?
> > >
> > >
> > > The word "Pulse" is a text variable in the source, but once it gets to
> > the
> > > TOC it's plain text. I did try changing it in the source to text. The
> > > pictures you see are the "after" of that try.
> > >
> > > The font is Source Sans Pro. The TOC paragraph tag does have word
> spacing
> > > adjusted to ensure that I don't have text abutting the page number
> > > (standard workaround, minimum 190%, maximum 210%, optimum 100%), but
> > since
> > > all the other tags

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

Hi, Lin:

AHA! It's a secret plot of some kind. I remember there was a time long ago,
when FM's auto-correct would replace "InterLeaf" or some other proprietary
competitor, with "FrameMaker."

The word-spacing computation might have a rounding error when it encounters
specific glyph combinations in this particular font. Perhaps substitute a
similar font for the problematic word(s) or adjust the kerning or
letter-spacing, perhaps by applying a character format that sets one or the
other or both properties.

HTH


On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 11:58 AM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Peter
> >
> > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc. Is
> > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific glyph
> > pairs?
>
>
> The word "Pulse" is a text variable in the source, but once it gets to the
> TOC it's plain text. I did try changing it in the source to text. The
> pictures you see are the "after" of that try.
>
> The font is Source Sans Pro. The TOC paragraph tag does have word spacing
> adjusted to ensure that I don't have text abutting the page number
> (standard workaround, minimum 190%, maximum 210%, optimum 100%), but since
> all the other tags have the exact same settings, why would those two, and
> only those two, convert from FM to PDF so weirdly? I don't touch the letter
> spacing or stretch settings on the font tab. There are no character tags
> applied in either the source file or the generated TOC.
>
> Doug
>
> > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
> > again.  Observe the results.
>
>
> No joy on this. There appears to be something about the actual word
> "Software" that the PDF engine is having a conniption about. The original
> text has Software oddly space, and the inserted text right before it also
> has "Software oddly spaced. In fact, the "e" from "Software" is overlapping
> the "P" of the original "Pulse".
>
> Maybe it's time to reinstall Acrobat. Again. I have constant problems with
> this program. Multiple Fatal DDE Errors, an inability to open PDFs by
> double-clicking on them from File Explorer or the download bar at the
> bottom of a browser, and on and on. An Adobe tech completely wiped every
> Adobe program and reinstalled them, and I've even had my machine completely
> reimaged and the problems continue.
>
> On Sat, Sep 12, 2020 at 8:47 AM Doug  wrote:
>
> > Experiment by making changes to the source.
> >
> > For instance, insert Pulse Software before the word "Pulse", and PDF it
> > again.  Observe the results.  If the new words display fine, delete
> > everything after them and PDF it again.  Observe the results.
> >
> > You might be able to fix it, even if you might never discover why.
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 5:50 PM Peter Gold 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)
> > >
> > > Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
> > > different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
> > > character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc.
> Is
> > > the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific
> glyph
> > > pairs?
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:
> > >
> > > > This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC,
> > they
> > > > look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> > > > paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they
> > are
> > > > the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those
> two
> > > > headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
> > > >
> > > > I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If
> > anyone
> > > > has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks
> bad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker/weird-spacing-in-toc-after-conversion-to-pdf/td-p/11427776?page=1
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Lin Sims
> > > > ___
> > > >
> > > > This message is from the Framers mailing list
> > > >
> > > > Send messages to framers@l

Re: [Framers] Weird spacing in PDF output

[Peter Gold]

It's a no-brainer, Lin! It's "social distancing. :)

Seriously, I'm sure you have tried changing the source, say, with a
different word, or if it's a text variable try plain text, or is a
character tag applied, or if it's a corporate-name font, swap it, etc. Is
the font customized to apply special kerning or spacing to specific glyph
pairs?

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 3:46 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> This is only happening with 2 entries in the entire TOC. In the TOC, they
> look identical to all the other entries in the TOC. I've checked the
> paragraph tags in both the original files and the TOC files and they are
> the same. But in the PDF created from that TOC, the text for those two
> headings is weirdly spaced for the word Software.
>
> I've posted this to the Adobe FrameMaker forum, with pictures. If anyone
> has an idea, I'd appreciate it. It's a little thing, but it looks bad.
>
>
> https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker/weird-spacing-in-toc-after-conversion-to-pdf/td-p/11427776?page=1
>
> --
> Lin Sims
> ___
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Re: [Framers] Adobe Job Options

[Peter Gold]

If you save the FM book file, and the first file in the book, as MIF, then
open the MIF file as text, you may be able to find a joboptions statement
with Find/Search. Remember that sometimes words in MIF statements break
actross lines, so if necessary, search for a fragment of "joboptions." To
open a MIF as text in FM, press and hold Shift while opening. Save a MIF
file as text to preserve any changes, then open it normally and save
normally it to restore it to FM format.

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 1:03 PM Doug  wrote:

> I just noticed that the correct job options file loads by default if I
> don't include the first document in the Book file.  I guess this means the
> problem is with that document file.  I seem to recall the first file in the
> book being used to store...settings?  Any truth to this?
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 1:50 PM Doug  wrote:
>
> > Running Frame 2017 on Windows 10.
> >
> > We use a customized PDF Job Options file.
> >
> > I started a new project today, and when I went to use FIle > Save as PDF,
> > the PDF Setup for Selected Files dialog defaults to a Job Option named
> > Adobe PDF Preset 1.joboptions.jobo instead of my customized Job Options
> > file.
> >
> > All my other projects still use the customized file by default.  It's
> only
> > this one that defaults to this unknown file.  I can set it to use the
> > customized file with two mouse clicks, but I have to fix the Bookmarks by
> > hand.  Very annoying.
> >
> > Can anyone give me a clue why this is happening?  Where are these
> > customized job options files stored?  Why do different projects use
> > different job option files?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> >
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Re: [Framers] Framemaker v7.0 Quick Reference card (FREE)

[Peter Gold]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 2:35 PM Theresa de Valence  wrote:

> I know that some users of older Frame versions were looking for
> documentation. I've just discovered ONE(1.
>

...

When I first wrote the first line, I wrote
> "older Frame users"
> which I realized must constitute most of us!
>

It's odd to realize that there is a generation of tech writers younger than
the software they're using! :)
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Re: [Framers] Adobe licensing is migrating to subscription based

[Peter Gold]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2020, 12:53 PM Lin Sims  wrote:

> Oh, and while I have no idea if there is a freeware equivalent to InDesign,
>

A few freeware-alikes are briefly listed here:

https://www.maketecheasier.com/free-adobe-indesign-alternatives/

Not free, Affinity has a collection of design, graphics, and publishing
tools.

GIMP is freeware and does everything Photoshop does.


Probably more than most folks need for image transmogrifying, close, but
not everything.

IMO, the Adobe photo plan $10/ subscription for both Lightroom (including
mobile, for editing photos on phones,) and Photoshop, is worth the price if
you edit only one important photo a month. If you're in business, a
negligible expense.

InDesign's long-document and book authoring, editing, and publishing tools
caught up to FrameMaker a few years ago. There are some inexpensive
third-party tools, like smart language-aware, and page-aware,
cross-references ("on opposite/previous page,") and MIF import. But if
you're bound to DITA, sorry.

I
> hate that the CC apps all have this shades of grey interface, it is very
> difficult to pick out the icon you need.
>

Could this be a clever distraction to conceal the many neglected
long-standing bugs and enhancement requests? :)

>
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Re: [Framers] Images make scrolling through a Frame document problematic

[Peter Gold]

FM considers the default printer when it formats documents for on-screen
display. Perhaps selecting a less-demanding printer will speed up the
display. Also, try navigating to the document's last page, using the scroll
bar, find, or go to page command, then, going back to the beginning.

HTH.

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020, 3:34 PM Mike Wickham  wrote:

> I also seem to recall a setting that affected whether a document loaded
> all graphics in a file up front, or as you scroll to them. The first
> method, loads the .fm file more slowly, but, once loaded, the graphics
> appeared quickly when scrolling. The alternate setting makes the .fm
> file load fast because it didn't load graphics unless they actually
> scroll onto the screen. Unfortunately, I can't remember what that
> setting was, nor could I find it. Maybe it will give a hint that allows
> someone else to chime in.
>
> Mike
>
> On 7/17/2020 2:06 PM, Doug wrote:
> > My Frame documents usually contain a lot of images, usually photos.
> >
> > I like to work with the zoom set out far enough for me to see both side
> > margins.  When I scroll through the document, Frame momentarily freezes
> > when an image scrolls into view.  After a few of these pauses, if I keep
> > scrolling, the entire screen will black out and freeze for 2-5 seconds or
> > so.
> >
> > Then the screen will display again and my image will be there as
> expected.
> >
> > I assume all of this is a memory issue, with buffers filling up and
> having
> > to be empties, or somesuch.
> >
> > My workstation has 16GB of memory, so I'd have thought I wouldn't see
> > memory problems.  I'm running Windows 10 Pro on a Dell OptiPlex 3050,
> > i5-7500 @ 3.4 GHz, 64 bit.
> >
> > Is there some setting I can tweak to optimize performance?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Doug
> > ___
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Re: [Framers] FM19-to-PDF generation results in a PDF that is double the size the second time I generate it from identical FM files.

[Peter Gold]

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 11:32 AM  wrote:

> Yes, the FM files were resaved before the PDF was regenerated the second
> time.
> Thanks for your response.
>

If the resaved FM files are only slightly larger than the earlier ones, the
generated PDFs may be just larger-enough to require an additional segment
of disk storage.

Have you tried Acrobat's Compare  PDF feature?
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Re: [Framers] FM19-to-PDF generation results in a PDF that is double the size the second time I generate it from identical FM files.

[Peter Gold]

Wild guesses:

One clue might be that 5kb growth is not much, IMO. Is it possible that the
second PDF is storing information about its generation history? Perhaps a
utility that compares the internals of the files has the answer.

Are the FM files changed or resaved before generating the second PDF?

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020, 10:26 AM  wrote:

> Greetings,
> I've encountered an aggravating phenomenon that I need a fix for:
> The second time I create a PDF from the same FM19 book, the PDF comes out
> at about twice the size as the first time I do it.
> Details:
> Using FM19, I create a PDF by printing a book to a PS file and then
> distilling the PS file using Adobe Distiller XI, "Professional version"
> 11.0.0779, with the "Compatibility" setting set to "Adobe 5.0 (PDF1.4)".
> (Note that the "Compatibility" dropdown menu lists several Compatibility
> optionsup to "Adobe 8.0 (PDF1.7)".
> The first time I do this I end up with a PDF that is (in this case) about
> 5.5 KB.
> The second time I do it (using the same files) the PDF size is about 11 KB.
> Note that in both case, I perform a "save as" operation on the PDF to try
> to reduce its size.
>
> I have no idea what causes this doubling in size and I really need the
> smaller-sized files.
> Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
> Best wishes,
> Barry Meislin
>
>
>
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