Re: [Framers] Framers Digest, Vol 171, Issue 8

[Phillip Norman]

I am an unusual FrameMaker user. I use v5.5.6 nearly every day, for the
ability to make quite-complex 2D drawings integral with the superior text
creation. I join in the nostalgia. I saw FrameMaker as the most-impressive
software on a Next computer at a roll-out beyond that to academics, in
Providence, RI. My first owned copy was at v5.5. I address this
conversation with wish the simple nearly-free tools I use, should be
packaged for a large new set of users, for purchase at very small cost. If
Adobe isn't interested, look for other possibilities.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 1:08 PM 
wrote:

> Send Framers mailing list submissions to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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> can reach the person managing the list at
> framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com When replying, please edit your
> Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Framers
> digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>1. Re:  FM on Next - question from a nostalgic person (Ralf Kohler)
>2. Re:  FM on Next - question from a nostalgic person
>   (Robert Lauriston)
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:18:07 +0200
> From: Ralf Kohler 
> To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM on Next - question from a nostalgic person
> Message-ID: <1cb2ed55-699e-458a-aa1b-73f3840b9...@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=utf-8
>
> Dear List,
>
> Klaus Daube was so friendly to pass on my question. So far I am very
> grateful for the feedback. It helped me formulate my question more
> concisely: I am looking for the two tutorials ?Learning FrameMaker? and
> ?Using FrameMaker?. Both have been published by
> Frame Technology in 1989. From what I can see looking in the world cat
> database, there has been a general UNIX edition but not a specific NeXTSTEP
> one. Is that correct, or does anybody remember otherwise? I will try to get
> this issue through interlibrary loan in my local library. But if someone
> happens to have an e-book, I would be very grateful if I could borrow it.
> By the way, I really want to work with it, so it's not pure nostalgia.
> During the covid-19 lockdown I have sketched a music theory book which I
> would like to develop now further in the next month to come. I still use
> NextSTEP to this day because I still consider the GUI to be unsurpassed in
> its simplicity and functionality.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ralf
>
> > On 16. Jun 2020, at 02:07, Robert Lauriston 
> wrote:
> >
> > There was an external SCSI CD-ROM drive later on.
> >
> >
> http://www.kevra.org/TheBestOfNext/NeXTProducts/NeXTHardware/ExternalCD-ROM-Drive/files/page624_2.pdf
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 5:01 PM Fred Ridder  wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually, the original NeXT computer was designed before CD-ROM was
> standardized. The so-called Yellow Book that contained the CD-ROM standards
> was published in 1988, the same year that the NeXT was introduced. Instead,
> the original NeXT computer came with a magneto-optical disc drive that used
> removable disc cartridges as both the primary storage and the external
> media device while a magnetic hard drive was an option.
> >>
> >> In 1990, the second generation NeXT -- the one that was officially
> named the NeXTcube -- dropped the MO drive in favor of a conventional hard
> disc as the primary storage. A 3.5" HD floppy drive was available as an
> option and every cube I saw was fitted with one. The NeXTstation (the pizza
> box) came with a 3.5" floppy standard.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:23:54 -0700
> From: Robert Lauriston 
> To: "An email list for people using Adobe FrameMaker software."
> 
> Subject: Re: [Framers] FM on Next - question from a nostalgic person
> Message-ID:
>  ygpxuy8pz0b7b5mnmnlrerjv9vufk...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> I'm pretty sure FrameMaker 3.0 will work only with legacy fonts.
>
> If you like NextStep, you ought to like OS X / MacOS. It's a direct
> descendant and quite recognizable as such. Lots of scorewriter / music
> notation software.
>
> My main problem with NextStep is that I had to use the mouse for
> everything. It felt like their design guideline was "never type when
> you can click, never click when you can click and drag." Using the
> mouse so much gave me a bone spur that messed up my rotator cuff.
>
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 3:18 AM Ralf Kohler  wrote:
> >
> ... By the way, I really want to work with it, so it's not pure
> nostalgia. During the covid-19 lockdown I have sketched a music theory
> book which I would like to develop now further in the next month to
> come. I still use NextSTEP to this day because I still consider the
> GUI to be unsurpassed in its simplicity and functionality.
>
>
> --
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> 

Re: [Framers] Old FrameMaker books?

[Phillip Norman]

I have a box of FrameMaker v5 from Frame technology. I loaded the program
in Windows 7 Professional, and of course learned nothing of program
workings, where I am peculiarly using the graphics palette. From the
beginning when v5.5.6 was new, I have been happy with merger of 2D graphics
of some complexity and great precision, with text documents such as
Purchase Orders. As this peculiar user, happy with v5.5.6, I am only
unhappy to be constrained to 32-bit computing.

I have talked to The List three times I think, in all those years of caring
about FrameMaker and skimming understandable things occasionally from
others. Where I talk to The List, it is always about this graphics suite,
and the fit to my brains in flexible document creation, despising automated
cookie-cutter Word and its predecessors that evolved from command language.
I know a few keystroke operations, but it is mostly type and place precise,
flexible simplicity.

I have tried to share samples of my work,hoping not all modern users are
publishing professionals. I show the often creation of house details in my
work as a construction contractor, on an accurately sized satellite photo.
I imagine large employment opportunities for people I call Diligence
Reporters, doing third-part quality control in construction, photos and
builder notes proving completion of check list requirements, then in many
ways surpassing "work" done by municipal jurisdictional authorities. I am
inspired by a customer-couple who worked as entertainers on cruise ships,
and would be happy in this Reporter relationship with respected builders,
working in The Cloud to escape boredom in the Indian Ocean. I want a
simplified and inexpensive software going back to the roots of FrameMaker,
perhaps written by those Old Guys, and not owned by Adobe. Millions have a
chance to do their correspondence in something not Word-like, much better.
The Reporters in-the-cloud, would find this flexible software more
intuitive than today's FrameMaker.

Can anyone help?

So, my v5 Frame Technology books are still shrink wrapped. Would I do well
to open and read them? Is the pristine box valuable?

Phillip Norman
Attic Access
Portland, Oregon
An Old Guy 73, and an inventor.
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Re: framers Digest, Vol 110, Issue 1

[Phillip Norman]

I replied in this conversation sincerely offering FrameMaker itself as the
most useful dimensioning too, for the work that I do. I can import any
graphic that includes a scale, and apply wonderful drawings atop, as
layers. I can draw with 0.001 precision where I draw at full scale, and I
can work in huge layouts. Examples current in my life are placed at Google
Docs for your information.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Byj-qncyomXmSEl5T01GZUNzNmc/view?usp=sharing

If the original poster has needs similar to mine, we should mention the
handy and wonderful FrameMaker tools. If we place value upon those
FrameMaker tools, we improve chances Adobe will work to allow ever better
work that is easiest and least confusing, within FrameMaker.



On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 10:00 AM, framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
wrote:

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 than Re: Contents of framers digest...


 Today's Topics:

1. Re: Adobe Illustrator Dimensioning Tool  (David Creamer)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 15:41:18 -0800
 From: David Creamer ideasli...@ideastraining.com
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: Re: Adobe Illustrator Dimensioning Tool
 Message-ID: 016101d00cf7$43f29090$cbd7b1b0$@ideastraining.com
 Content-Type: text/plain;   charset=us-ascii

 Good suggestion, especially if one's budget is nil.

 Not to go too far off-topic on this off-topic thread, but Acrobat's
 accuracy
 is only to two decimal places. If you need greater accuracy, check out
 Bluebeam Revu for really nice measurement and labeling features in a
 PDF--really what Acrobat Pro should have.

 David Creamer
 IDEAS Training
 http://www.IDEAStraining.com

 Adobe Certified Instructor for FrameMaker
 Frame Technologies Consultant, 1991-1995



 *

 simple Workaround:

 If you work with PDF in Illustrator, you can use the Adobe Acrobat
 measurement tool, which seems to be quite accurate.
 (Of course adjustments require switching from Acrobat to Illustrator back
 and forth...)

 Best regards - T.Haida



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 End of framers Digest, Vol 110, Issue 1
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Re: framers Digest, Vol 109, Issue 21

[Phillip Norman]

I can readily draw and dimension objects in FrameMaker. Why would one use
AI?

Phillip Norman

On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 10:00 AM, framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com
wrote:

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 framers@lists.frameusers.com

 To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
 http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/listinfo/framers
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 framers-requ...@lists.frameusers.com

 You can reach the person managing the list at
 framers-ow...@lists.frameusers.com

 When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
 than Re: Contents of framers digest...


 Today's Topics:

1. Frame 12 Update Fails (Craig, Alison)
2. RE: Frame 12 Update Fails (Jeff Coatsworth)
3. Adobe Illustrator Dimensioning Tool (Denis Daly)
4. RE: Adobe Illustrator Dimensioning Tool (Jeff Coatsworth)
5. RE: Adobe Illustrator Dimensioning Tool (sa...@lachivaquemada.com)
6. Re: Adobe Illustrator Dimensioning Tool (David Spreadbury)


 --

 Message: 1
 Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 23:09:45 +
 From: Craig, Alison alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: Frame 12 Update Fails
 Message-ID:
 00492f332ad5c24f91090267e5fc4fd88af89...@peaexmbx02.analogic.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 FM 12 Version: 12.0.2.389
 Unstructured
 OS: Windows 7, 64 bit

 Can anyone confirm that the Frame 12 version listed above is Frame 12 plus
 the first 2 patches? This is the trial version I downloaded and installed
 last month and have since converted to a fully licensed copy.

 My problem is that when applying the first patch, the update fails. The
 log file says Adobe FrameMaker 12.0.1 Update. Installation failed. Error
 Code: U44M2P7.

 However, if the trial version I installed already includes the first 2
 patches, then I don't care if the first update fails because I don't need
 it. ;-))


 Thanks, Alison



 Alison Craig | Technical Documentation Lead
 Ultrasonix | 130-4311 Viking Way | Richmond, BC  V6V 2K9 |
 analogicultrasound.comhttp://www.analogicultrasound.com
 T 604-279-8550 ext 127 | F 604-279-8559
 
 Analogic
 Ultrasound



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 --

 Message: 2
 Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 14:09:44 +
 From: Jeff Coatsworth jeff.coatswo...@jonasclub.com
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: RE: Frame 12 Update Fails
 Message-ID: f09a40abe5554132992bb15c84e51159@exchmb01
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

 I thought 12.0.3 was the latest these days

 From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:
 framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Craig, Alison
 Sent: November-27-14 6:10 PM
 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
 Subject: Frame 12 Update Fails

 FM 12 Version

Re: Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

I believe my Windows 7 operation in FrameMaker v5.5.6 has been damaged by a
recent Windows 7 update, far enough back that I can't uninstall it. Graphics
gray randomly within FrameMaker, and especially in printing whether direct
or as PDF. I don't blame PDF creation for the graying.

My workspace:
FrameMaker 5.5.6 on Dell desktop Pentium Dual CPU @2.2 GHz, 4 GB  RAM,
32-bit OS, Windows 7 Professional, now with Windows Virtual PC to allow work
in Windows XP mode. PDF printing with Acrobat 8 Professional. The XP mode
option was added per this conversation, and that required upgrade from
Windows 7 Home Premium, to Professional.

Before the Windows 7 new adventures, I briefly installed a trial of Adobe
TCS 3, to try out FrameMaker 10. That resolved problems, but disagreeably
took over my computer. I could not do any productive work, not intending to
keep the upgrade. The Adobe UI is alien to me. I never use elements of Adobe
CS2 other than Acrobat 8 Professional. I much prefer Xara for photo graphics
editing. The graphics drawing tools are much better in v5.5.6 than in any
newer version, now little windows that seemed to lack even color control.
Upon uninstall, my Acrobat 8 was swept away. An online trial mode seemed
dysfunctional, so I was forced to take the time of the real upgrade.

Here are current observations:
The problem in Windows 7 was not affected by upgrade from Home Premium, to
Professional. A document with about seventy placed photos progressively
degraded in seven printings to PDF, saving each time. At this point the PDF
had nine grayed .jpg photos. The FrameMaker document had two grayed photos.
Then opening the corrupted FrameMaker document in XP mode, there were no
errors. Printing is error-free.

I can live with this setup, aggressively keeping v5.5.6. I will continue to
work first in Windows 7. All of my work, whether in Windows 7 or XP, will
remain in folders of the Windows 7 environment. I will hope a new Windows 7
update ends the corruption, and do not accept that v5.5.6 has weaknesses
justifying retirement.

This then, is a Windows issue, not of much interest to this forum. I hope
there was value in the reading. I am so grateful for the help from many
responders.

Phillip Norman
Attic Access
Portland, Oregon
Phone 503-255-4350
pjnor...@gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/phillipnormanatticaccess/
http://sites.google.com/a/r5portals.com/www/home
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Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

I believe my Windows 7 operation in FrameMaker v5.5.6 has been damaged by a
recent Windows 7 update, far enough back that I can't uninstall it. Graphics
gray randomly within FrameMaker, and especially in printing whether direct
or as PDF. I don't blame PDF creation for the graying.

My workspace:
FrameMaker 5.5.6 on Dell desktop Pentium Dual CPU @2.2 GHz, 4 GB  RAM,
32-bit OS, Windows 7 Professional, now with Windows Virtual PC to allow work
in Windows XP mode. PDF printing with Acrobat 8 Professional. The XP mode
option was added per this conversation, and that required upgrade from
Windows 7 Home Premium, to Professional.

Before the Windows 7 new adventures, I briefly installed a trial of Adobe
TCS 3, to try out FrameMaker 10. That resolved problems, but disagreeably
took over my computer. I could not do any productive work, not intending to
keep the upgrade. The Adobe UI is alien to me. I never use elements of Adobe
CS2 other than Acrobat 8 Professional. I much prefer Xara for photo graphics
editing. The graphics drawing tools are much better in v5.5.6 than in any
newer version, now little windows that seemed to lack even color control.
Upon uninstall, my Acrobat 8 was swept away. An online trial mode seemed
dysfunctional, so I was forced to take the time of the real upgrade.

Here are current observations:
The problem in Windows 7 was not affected by upgrade from Home Premium, to
Professional. A document with about seventy placed photos progressively
degraded in seven printings to PDF, saving each time. At this point the PDF
had nine grayed .jpg photos. The FrameMaker document had two grayed photos.
Then opening the corrupted FrameMaker document in XP mode, there were no
errors. Printing is error-free.

I can live with this setup, aggressively keeping v5.5.6. I will continue to
work first in Windows 7. All of my work, whether in Windows 7 or XP, will
remain in folders of the Windows 7 environment. I will hope a new Windows 7
update ends the corruption, and do not accept that v5.5.6 has weaknesses
justifying retirement.

This then, is a Windows issue, not of much interest to this forum. I hope
there was value in the reading. I am so grateful for the help from many
responders.

Phillip Norman
Attic Access
Portland, Oregon
Phone 503-255-4350
pjnorman at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/phillipnormanatticaccess/
http://sites.google.com/a/r5portals.com/www/home
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Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

Thanks to all for responses so far.

I have a competent Dell desktop computer, 3 years old. 4 GB RAM. All files
are on one large HDD. No network. Everything has been fine in Windows 7 for
more than six months, until a week ago.

I tried a trial download of CS3. My documents then print fine. I dumped the
download. I can't bear the less useful interface and steep learning for book
features I don't need.. I like v5.5.6 just fine. I will not accept Version
10 without a lot more effort. I will change computers/ OS, first.

Phil Norman
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Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

Thanks to all for responses so far.

I have a competent Dell desktop computer, 3 years old. 4 GB RAM. All files
are on one large HDD. No network. Everything has been fine in Windows 7 for
more than six months, until a week ago.

I tried a trial download of CS3. My documents then print fine. I dumped the
download. I can't bear the less useful interface and steep learning for book
features I don't need.. I like v5.5.6 just fine. I will not accept Version
10 without a lot more effort. I will change computers/ OS, first.

Phil Norman
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Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

I am using FrameMaker 5.5.6 in Windows 7 Home Premium. Within the past week,
and never before, photo graphics placed by reference gray randomly in
printing, and sometimes within Frame sessions. I can't print a document with
as few as a dozen pictures, without a lost reference. I find slight control
in re-importing graphics. Uninstall and re-install did nothing to help.

I use FrameMaker daily to document work as a construction contractor, and
must do something. I suspect a new computer or new hard drive might behave.

Phillip Norman
Attic Access, Portland, Oregon
pjnor...@gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/phillipnormanatticaccess/
http://sites.google.com/a/r5portals.com/www/home
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RE: Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

Odd behavior of my printing continues.

Phenomenion One: File acquires errors while open for printing.
An old document with many photos printed fine. Another printed without
error, once. Then with file open and no saves, each successive printing as
pdf, had more grayed graphics. Occurs without Phenomenon Two, permisions
hangup. If I save the open FrameMaker file, it is corrupted.


Phenomenon Two: Interfering administrator permissions for print, dialog.
In FrameMaker, attempting to print PDF, I get dialog Save PDF File as
(pathname and file name I chose).
And dialog:
You don’t have permission to modify files in this network location.
Contact the administrator per permission to make these changes.

Click OK, and I get invitation to overwrite my chosen filename. The
overwritten file has random graying of graphics.


Phenomenom Three: odd file creation.
I get documents with odd file names such as, with zero content, especially
with crashes. Crashes most often occur with graphics overload, such as
scrolling too fast.
Example names:
Filename.auto.fm.149
Filename.auto.fm.F3E
(I work with hiding of extensions for known file types.)
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Re: Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

I accept there may be new incompatibility with my old friend v5.5.6, under
Windows 7 with some recent update.

My pdf distiller is Acrobat 8 Professional.

If I must upgrade, I will.

Phil Norman
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Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

I am using FrameMaker 5.5.6 in Windows 7 Home Premium. Within the past week,
and never before, photo graphics placed by reference gray randomly in
printing, and sometimes within Frame sessions. I can't print a document with
as few as a dozen pictures, without a lost reference. I find slight control
in re-importing graphics. Uninstall and re-install did nothing to help.

I use FrameMaker daily to document work as a construction contractor, and
must do something. I suspect a new computer or new hard drive might behave.

Phillip Norman
Attic Access, Portland, Oregon
pjnorman at gmail.com
http://sites.google.com/site/phillipnormanatticaccess/
http://sites.google.com/a/r5portals.com/www/home
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Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

Odd behavior of my printing continues.

Phenomenion One: File acquires errors while open for printing.
An old document with many photos printed fine. Another printed without
error, once. Then with file open and no saves, each successive printing as
pdf, had more grayed graphics. Occurs without Phenomenon Two, permisions
hangup. If I save the open FrameMaker file, it is corrupted.


Phenomenon Two: Interfering administrator permissions for print, dialog.
In FrameMaker, attempting to print PDF, I get dialog Save PDF File as
(pathname and file name I chose).
And dialog:
You don?t have permission to modify files in this network location.
Contact the administrator per permission to make these changes.

Click OK, and I get invitation to overwrite my chosen filename. The
overwritten file has random graying of graphics.


Phenomenom Three: odd file creation.
I get documents with odd file names such as, with zero content, especially
with crashes. Crashes most often occur with graphics overload, such as
scrolling too fast.
Example names:
Filename.auto.fm.149
Filename.auto.fm.F3E
(I work with hiding of extensions for known file types.)
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Corrupted graphics placement by reference

[Phillip Norman]

I accept there may be new incompatibility with my old friend v5.5.6, under
Windows 7 with some recent update.

My pdf distiller is Acrobat 8 Professional.

If I must upgrade, I will.

Phil Norman
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Vaguely OT: Graphics Editor Recommendations?

[Phillip Norman]

I saw this question in light different from replies so far. I rely on
FrameMaker itself for 2D drawings. Is this possibly overlooked? I am unaware
of better graphics tools for many purposes. I followed the thread hoping to
see remarks on progress with the FrameMaker tools in newer versions. v5.5.6
is good enough for what I do as a construction contractor, I think. But, I
try to understand what I might be missing without upgrades.
Among other tasks, I draw objects onto photos, often from Snagit capture of
satellite images, Google Maps, or city databases. I like having drawings
live within my FrameMaker documents (bids, contracts and more).

I don't find comparable tools in InDesign or any other Adobe software.

Do we have anything to discuss about evolution of the FrameMaker graphics
tool-set?

I am a loyal List follower, but very rarely post. I hope this comes up ok.

Phil Norman
Attic Access
1234 NE 118th Avenue
Portland, OR 97220-2129
Phone 503-255-4350
pjnor...@gmail.com
www.servicesbyphil.com
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Vaguely OT: Graphics Editor Recommendations?

[Phillip Norman]

I saw this question in light different from replies so far. I rely on
FrameMaker itself for 2D drawings. Is this possibly overlooked? I am unaware
of better graphics tools for many purposes. I followed the thread hoping to
see remarks on progress with the FrameMaker tools in newer versions. v5.5.6
is good enough for what I do as a construction contractor, I think. But, I
try to understand what I might be missing without upgrades.
Among other tasks, I draw objects onto photos, often from Snagit capture of
satellite images, Google Maps, or city databases. I like having drawings
live within my FrameMaker documents (bids, contracts and more).

I don't find comparable tools in InDesign or any other Adobe software.

Do we have anything to discuss about evolution of the FrameMaker graphics
tool-set?

I am a loyal List follower, but very rarely post. I hope this comes up ok.

Phil Norman
Attic Access
1234 NE 118th Avenue
Portland, OR 97220-2129
Phone 503-255-4350
pjnorman at gmail.com
www.servicesbyphil.com

FrameMaker at Kinko's

[Phillip Norman]

I use FrameMaker daily, for letters and a variety of business forms,
as documents to receive and organize internet information including
FrameUsers threads, and as a flexible receiver of pictures and stories
for pdf albums. I find these tasks unbearable in Word, just as writers
in this forum find Word unbearable for complex structured documents.
My response to the August 2004 FrameMaker Survey was a request that
FrameMaker be offered to a much broader market, affording price
competition with Word. We should hope to find FrameMaker at Kinko's.

I invite a conversation on this subject. Isn't FrameMaker the best
word processor? Do others find FrameMaker the best application for
albums? I am content with v5.5.6 for what I do, and apologize if I
should be aware of existing templates for a broader market, in v7.