Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to keep their access to the software, instead of paying for upgrades due to improvements. This reduces Adobe's incentive to add new features that they normally would add in order to convince people to upgrade. The upside might be that instead of working on new features they could focus on stability, but the lack of incentive to improve sounds like it will hurt the user in the long run. In all fairness, if Adobe is insisting on a guaranteed income, they should be willing to lower the price in order to get that guarantee. So the price of the subscription should be lower than the price of constant upgrades. I'm under the impression that the subscription is about the same price as constant upgrades. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 7:35 PM, Shlomo Perets wrote: Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre, half-baked, not too promising and/or too expensive. Instead of making an effort to produce inspiring/irresistible upgrades, they want to force all to constantly pay for the same software… [nothing original… I'm sure that these points and many other valid points were already made in the different threads in so many forums] Shlomo Perets MicroType, http:// microtype.com http://%20microtype.com FrameMaker/Acrobat/Captivate training consulting * FM-to-Acrobat TimeSavers/Assistants Enable and encourage user input in PDFs (viewed with Adobe Reader) Half-hour webinar (free; no fluff, no hype, no nonsense), June 5, starting 9am PDT https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/157658438 -- Original message -- At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Pricing-wise, let's not forget the Adobe's personalized experience in the form of a different list price for different countries: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-hYc_SEDqw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-hYc_SEDqwt=3m09s t=3m09s Shlomo -- Original message -- From: Shmuel Wolfson shmue...@gmail.com Date: Wed, May 22, 2013 at 11:24 AM Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Paula Stern pa...@writepoint.com If the only option is subscription, the reason people will keep paying is to keep their access to the software, instead of paying for upgrades due to improvements. This reduces Adobe's incentive to add new features that they normally would add in order to convince people to upgrade. The upside might be that instead of working on new features they could focus on stability, but the lack of incentive to improve sounds like it will hurt the user in the long run. In all fairness, if Adobe is insisting on a guaranteed income, they should be willing to lower the price in order to get that guarantee. So the price of the subscription should be lower than the price of constant upgrades. I'm under the impression that the subscription is about the same price as constant upgrades. Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 7:35 PM, Shlomo Perets wrote: Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre, half-baked, not too promising and/or too expensive. Instead of making an effort to produce inspiring/irresistible upgrades, they want to force all to constantly pay for the same software. [nothing original. I'm sure that these points and many other valid points were already made in the different threads in so many forums] Shlomo Perets MicroType, http:// microtype.com FrameMaker/Acrobat/Captivate training consulting * FM-to-Acrobat TimeSavers/Assistants Enable and encourage user input in PDFs (viewed with Adobe Reader) Half-hour webinar (free; no fluff, no hype, no nonsense), June 5, starting 9am PDT https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/157658438 -- Original message -- At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-ma ndatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shmue...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shmuelw1%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as shlomo.per...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/shlomo.perets%40gmail.co m Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I'm under the impression that the subscription is about the same price as constant upgrades. Actually, it's substantially more. I looked back and the last two CS upgrades I bought were around $600. The product has an 18-month cycle between upgrades, which means an average of $400 per year-- even less for those who didn't upgrade every version like I did. To subscribe to the same software is now $600 per year-- and if you quit paying, you can't keep using your existing software version. You are DONE. You know, we users ought to start billing Adobe for the hours we spend providing free customer support for them in the various forums. We undoubtedly save the company millions of dollars per year. I imagine that the billing for my posts on this listserve and the Adobe FrameMaker forums alone would be worth well more than a lifetime subscription plan to Creative Cloud. Mike Wickham ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
2013-05-22-03T16:55Z Mike Wickham wrote, You know, we users ought to start billing Adobe for the hours we spend providing free customer support for them in the various forums. We undoubtedly save the company millions of dollars per year. I imagine that the billing for my posts on this listserve and the Adobe FrameMaker forums alone would be worth well more than a lifetime subscription plan to Creative Cloud. ¡Hear! ¡Hear! Dave Stamm Information Engineer -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Mike Wickham Sent: 2013-05-22-Wednesday 12:35 To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
all Adobe users also signed the petition . . . because (follows) had recent issues with customer supplied images as PDF (would crash my Acrobat 7.1). emailed Support who said they knew of and had a fix to download, but would require me to delete/remove my 7.1. asked them 3x more - all with yes response to remonal. activation FAILED - with NO FURTHER response forthcoming. except . . . could download trial of Acro-XI . . . and they desperately pushed for subscription into the cloud. opted for purchase which does function fine . . . just each launch has message box of xx days remaining/ready to subscribe? all of which reminds me of my Frame-10 install of last Sept. and its crash on 1/1/2013 with Notice . . . You have EXPIRED. OPS! maybe it was just a test of code embedded as request for more $$. beware of stuff that emanates within clouds If in doubt . . . ask a resident of Oklahoma City. Scrooge Graphic Communications sgmli...@tds.net - Original Message - From: Shlomo Perets To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:35 PM Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre, half-baked, not too promising and/or too expensive. Instead of making an effort to produce inspiring/irresistible upgrades, they want to force all to constantly pay for the same software. [nothing original. I'm sure that these points and many other valid points were already made in the different threads in so many forums] Shlomo Perets MicroType, http:// microtype.com FrameMaker/Acrobat/Captivate training consulting * FM-to-Acrobat TimeSavers/Assistants Enable and encourage user input in PDFs (viewed with Adobe Reader) Half-hour webinar (free; no fluff, no hype, no nonsense), June 5, starting 9am PDT https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/157658438 -- Original message -- At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model -- ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as sgmli...@tds.net. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/sgmlindy%40tds.net Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Indeed, yes. Adobe have steadily reduced the value of their products in favour of increasing marketing expenditure (e.g. the standardised UI) and PR, and feature bloat in place of stability and quality software. Now, to increase value for stockholders and to shore up the bottom line, they need to gouge their customer base. It is us, the customer base, that have been filling the value void for too long. Alan On 23/05/2013, at 4:54 AM, dave.st...@gdc4s.com dave.st...@gdc4s.com wrote: 2013-05-22-03T16:55Z Mike Wickham wrote, You know, we users ought to start billing Adobe for the hours we spend providing free customer support for them in the various forums. We undoubtedly save the company millions of dollars per year. I imagine that the billing for my posts on this listserve and the Adobe FrameMaker forums alone would be worth well more than a lifetime subscription plan to Creative Cloud. ¡Hear! ¡Hear! Dave Stamm Information Engineer ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Cool! Signed! Thanks for sharing. -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 9:10 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as bethany@lakeshore.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/bethany.lee%40lakeshore.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I don't see why Adobe should care about a petition if subscription revenues aren't lower than expected. You don't like it, don't subscribe. They'll get the message. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre, half-baked, not too promising and/or too expensive. Instead of making an effort to produce inspiring/irresistible upgrades, they want to force all to constantly pay for the same software. [nothing original. I'm sure that these points and many other valid points were already made in the different threads in so many forums] Shlomo Perets MicroType, http:// microtype.com http://%20microtype.com FrameMaker/Acrobat/Captivate training consulting * FM-to-Acrobat TimeSavers/Assistants Enable and encourage user input in PDFs (viewed with Adobe Reader) Half-hour webinar (free; no fluff, no hype, no nonsense), June 5, starting 9am PDT https://www3.gotomeeting.com/register/157658438 -- Original message -- At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-ma ndatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Here's mine: I want the availability of my software to be independent of my ability to pay for it. If I'm having a cash-flow problem, the last thing I need is to lose access to the tools that are required to generate my income. I want it to be MY decision as to when I update my software, not Adobe's. I want forever access to the tools for which I purchased a license. Carol Just signed the petition and indicated the following as the reason for signing: It is really a matter of letting users choose, rather than aggressively force this or that option them. Clearly, many Adobe users are still using older versions because many newer versions/upgrades were mediocre, half-baked, not too promising and/or too expensive. Instead of making an effort to produce inspiring/irresistible upgrades, they want to force all to constantly pay for the same software [nothing original I'm sure that these points and many other valid points were already made in the different threads in so many forums] Shlomo Perets ** Carol J. Elkins---A Written Word LLC Making Information Understandable Phone: 719-948-3773 mailto:celk...@awrittenword.com http://www.awrittenword.com *** ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Done and FB'd. Alan On 22/05/13 1:09 AM, Shmuel Wolfson wrote: Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 -- AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Signed and with exactly the same reasons that Carol Elkins put in her email. Very well stated. TVB -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:10 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-man datory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-ma ndatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/tammyvb%40spectrumwritin gllc.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Signed, and commented. Tori Muir tm...@spot-on-creative.com | 650.430.8674 www.spot-on-creative.com On 5/21/13 12:37 PM, Tammy Van Boening wrote: Signed and with exactly the same reasons that Carol Elkins put in her email. Very well stated. TVB -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Shmuel Wolfson Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 7:10 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Yes, please sign and pass it on: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-man datory-creative-cloud-subscription-model Regards, Shmuel Wolfson Technical Writer 052-763-7133 On 21-May-13 3:30 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 14:54 -0700 20/5/13, Karen Robbins wrote: Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. I see from this article that there is a petition on Change.org to try to persuade Adobe to abandon this sales model. Please go here if you feel strongly about this issue: http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-ma ndatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as tamm...@spectrumwritingllc.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/tammyvb%40spectrumwritin gllc.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as tm...@spot-on-creative.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/tmuir%40spot-on-creative.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, *Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe’s View of the Future,* (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. --Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Given their recent punting of the multi-year license maintenance program for FrameMaker, I think you are very right. Z From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Karen Robbins Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:55 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Adam Engst's article in TidBITs, Creative Cloud Complaints Darken Adobe's View of the Future, (http://tidbits.com/e/13765) makes/shares some excellent points. If the Creative Cloud experiment succeeds, TCS/FrameMaker could be next. --Karen ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
The subscription model probably does help them deal with piracy. In that sense, they are urging a part of their user (but not customer) base to be more obedient. Craig From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Steve Johnson Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 7:08 PM To: Alan T Litchfield Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Forum Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only ... What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we were more rational and obedient, Adobe would be better off. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Adobe provides a software license transfer form. Not applicable to academic versions, however. http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/policy-pricing/transfer-product-license.h tml Craig -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 3:15 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote: ... you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody ever ... Maybe licensed resellers have to return all old software when a new version is released, but the FrameMaker 10 license allows you to sell your rights: You may ... permanently transfer all your rights to use the Software to another individual or legal entity ... Adobe may require that you and the receiving party confirm in writing your compliance with this agreement, provide Adobe with information about yourselves, and register as end-users of the Software. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as craig...@hotmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/craigede%40hotmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Hi Robert, Your opinion is appreciated and noted. For anyone who would like a summary of what has changed in FrameMaker since 2002, you can download a PDF document which contains a matrix of which features were introduced in FM7.2, FM8, FM9 and FM11. Interesting reading. Here is the link: http://adobe.ly/PAQS1u ___ Maxwell Hoffmann | Product Evangelist | Adobe | p. 503.336.5952 | c. 503.805.3719 | mhoff...@adobe.com http://twitter.com/maxwellhoffmann - http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann blogs.adobe.com/techcomm Upcoming webinars http://adobe.ly/Pbz6xIRecorded webinars: http://adobe.ly/Pbdp0J -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:31 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19 PM, dave.st...@gdc4s.com wrote: The purpose of business is to make money. The purpose of business is _not_ to produce a valuable good or to deliver a worthwhile service. ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Maxwell, I think you are missing the point. His comment is in reference to value (however that might be measured) in the statement I thought was worth paying for, not the fact that features have been added and added and added, then reshuffled and more added. Alan On 16/05/13 9:52 AM, Maxwell Hoffmann wrote: Hi Robert, Your opinion is appreciated and noted. For anyone who would like a summary of what has changed in FrameMaker since 2002, you can download a PDF document which contains a matrix of which features were introduced in FM7.2, FM8, FM9 and FM11. Interesting reading. Here is the link: http://adobe.ly/PAQS1u ___ Maxwell Hoffmann | Product Evangelist | Adobe | p. 503.336.5952 | c. 503.805.3719 | mhoff...@adobe.com http://twitter.com/maxwellhoffmann - http://www.linkedin.com/in/maxwellhoffmann blogs.adobe.com/techcomm Upcoming webinars http://adobe.ly/Pbz6xIRecorded webinars: http://adobe.ly/Pbdp0J -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Robert Lauriston Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 1:31 PM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19 PM, dave.st...@gdc4s.com wrote: The purpose of business is to make money. The purpose of business is _not_ to produce a valuable good or to deliver a worthwhile service. ___ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as a...@alphabyte.co.nz. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
How about you doing some reading and making a to-do list of the basic features that FrameMaker users have been requesting for years? An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. How are book-level variables, real templates, and external stylesheets still not part of the base product? Why, despite the extensive UI changes in FM9, do we still have tiny fixed-sized list boxes from the 1980s? On Wed, May 15, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Maxwell Hoffmann mhoff...@adobe.com wrote: Hi Robert, Your opinion is appreciated and noted. For anyone who would like a summary of what has changed in FrameMaker since 2002, you can download a PDF document which contains a matrix of which features were introduced in FM7.2, FM8, FM9 and FM11. Interesting reading. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Or broken by FM9 and added back in as new features in later releases. On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nz wrote: Maxwell, I think you are missing the point. His comment is in reference to value (however that might be measured) in the statement I thought was worth paying for, not the fact that features have been added and added and added, then reshuffled and more added. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
An easy way to find out what many of those are is to look at the plug-ins that people are willing to pay for. Good point. Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I would expect view ceasing support as something quite different than turning off access to a license. We'll have to see how that plays out. Craig -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Harro de Jong Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 4:08 AM To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only Craig Ede wrote: Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does mean that you have access to a given software package you can count on (and not some changing version of it). Also, given that license, they cannot revoke your ability of use the software in that state, and they have certain obligations to make sure you are able to do that (i.e. they can't simply turn of your license at their end on a whim). Obviously, they can turn off support at some point. Or maybe I am wrong about their responsibilities. I'd love to hear more info on this topic. The FM9 license states that ' you acknowledge that any obligation Adobe may have to support the previous version(s) may end upon the availability of the upgrade or update.' IANAL, but to me that implies they can turn off your license once a new version is available. Adobe's track record isn't that bad: activation for Frame 9 is still available, and when they closed down the activation for CS2, they provided a download for a version that doesn't need activation. Harro de Jong ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
At 08:00 +1200 14/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: The retail reseller channel does not exist anymore. It was that channel I referred to when I said that they are too expensive to maintain and why Adobe has gone direct to the market. Ah, right - I understand. No, I don't remember anything like that here. -- Steve ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Harro de Jong harro.dej...@triviewgroup.com wrote: The FM9 license states that ' you acknowledge that any obligation Adobe may have to support the previous version(s) may end upon the availability of the upgrade or update.' IANAL, but to me that implies they can turn off your license once a new version is available. There's nothing in the FM10 or earlier licensing agreements I've read that would allow Adobe to revoke your right to use the software so long as you observe the restrictions of the agreement. The clause you're quoting means that If the currently installed and licensed version is an update or upgrade, Adobe has no obligation to provide the support for the earlier versions. For example, if you upgrade to FM11 while you still have an active support contract for FM10, the support contract is shifted to FM11, and they no longer have any obligation to provide any support for FM10. 5. Updates. If the Software is an upgrade or update to a previous version of Adobe software, you must possess a valid license to such previous version in order to use such upgrade or update. After you install such update or upgrade, you may continue to use any such previous version in accordance with its end-user license agreement only if (a) the upgrade or update and all previous versions are installed on the same Computer, (b) the previous versions or copies thereof are not transferred to another party or device unless all copies of the update or upgrade are also transferred to such party or device, and (c) you acknowledge that any obligation Adobe may have to support the previous version(s) may end upon the availability of the upgrade or update. No other use of the previous version(s) is permitted after installation of an update or upgrade. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 5:08 PM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote: ... you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody ever ... Maybe licensed resellers have to return all old software when a new version is released, but the FrameMaker 10 license allows you to sell your rights: You may ... permanently transfer all your rights to use the Software to another individual or legal entity ... Adobe may require that you and the receiving party confirm in writing your compliance with this agreement, provide Adobe with information about yourselves, and register as end-users of the Software. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Customers value a business based on the goods or services it provides, not on how much money it makes for its stockholders. Adobe hasn't come up with anything new I thought was worth paying for since 2002. On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 1:19 PM, dave.st...@gdc4s.com wrote: The purpose of business is to make money. The purpose of business is _not_ to produce a valuable good or to deliver a worthwhile service. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
At 07:11 +1200 13/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: These are resellers as in, computer shops selling boxes and stuff? You know, retail channel? Not shops as such: my understanding is that they sell Adobe products and also training. I have dealt with two recently: Certitec and Phoenix Software. It was Adobe UK that referred me to the latter. -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Adobe introduces subscription-based licensing. So many of its users find it an outstanding value that over time, most of them license software by subscription. Adobe is rewarded for being innovative and Adobe serves its customers better. Everybody wins. Adobe ends its relationship with resellers over time so that, eventually, all users license software directly from Adobe .. either subscription or download or disks (at an extra cost). This is also a success story for Adobe; it's rewarded because it's providing a better service for its customers and at the same time, it's doing better for its shareholders. That's how capitalism is supposed to work. Choice is the entire issue. Everyone who made the case for subscription has a great point. It's not what I choose but I have no reason to tell you subscription is bad for *you*. Choice ... it's what humans do all the time. Adobe has removed the choice from some percentage of its users and there's no reason for it. Maybe Adobe has gotten to the point where it no longer believes customers make Adobe successful. Maybe they think they're so big they don't have to think about customers anymore; we, Adobe, make YOU successful. I don't know; fact is, they're doing their customers a disservice by limiting our choice for how we license software from them. Subscriptions are great, just give me back what I want and I'm perfectly content. On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nzwrote: Funny how people put words between the lines... On 12/05/13 12:08 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: That's some interesting points and some of them are probably partially true. What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we were more rational and obedient, Adobe would be better off. I never said Adobe blames anyone for anything. I am saying that Adobe has shareholders and share values are important. Customers are important too, but they are important because they improve share value (more customers, better share values). However, customers are only valuable when they are encouraged to part with their money, so to have customers pay more frequently is better than when they don't. The problem with cusomters is that they cost money to do business with. The cost of customer management has a negative effect on share value. So, cut the cost of doing business and improve share value. The subscription model Adobe are rolling out does just that. Obedience has nothing to do with it. Don't make it a human factor. Humanity has nothing to do with this. This is economics. You're side of the mark about resellers. Adobe locks down pricing and availability of its software; you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody ever and you can't get more than a few dollars of discount from anybody. Having other people sell for you is generally a good thing. Ignoring the bit about buying old versions, as a former reseller, I can quite confidently tell you that you are wrong. Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, Adobe had long since removed the reseller from the channel. The subscription model merely removes the last part of the retail chain. Sure, there remain some resellers but they are concerned with large customers who need specific licensing requirements. These are the ones that for Adobe to do itself, are uneconomic. But again, in the Adobe way of looking at things, what's good for the customer is bad because customers always do the wrong thing. Sorry, makes no sense. Customers (those that pay for stuff) always do the right thing when they are relieved of their money. Adobe is making this change in anticipation of other changes yet to be announced. Meh. It's just another way to do business. I have worked out that the subscription model will cost me about twice much to keep getting access to what I have now. It will disadvantage me in the future because I have to continue to pay for something I do not have to continue to pay for now. If you love the subscription model you'll love whatever else they have in mind for you. It's a good time to be an apologist. If I too were a fanboy, then maybe I too would be all smoochy about it. I have been in this business for too many years. I do not like it that this company (or any other) decide that I have not been paying enough for what I have been using and make it so that I pay more. I do not like it that I have to have the corporation in my head every month come subscription time. On the other hand, it is good time to be a user of LaTeX, et al. I am keen to see what Jeremy has to offer. Alan On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nz mailto:a...@alphabyte.co.nz wrote: On 12/05/2013, at 6:36 AM, Steve Johnson wrote: Almost everyone
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
One benefit of the subscription model is that a company can focus 100% on the current and next releases. That should significantly reduce support costs, eliminates the cost of providing and distributing patch releases for old versions, and reduces various other costs due to reduced complexity. On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Steve Johnson chinask...@gmail.com wrote: Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want? ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
That's some interesting points and some of them are probably partially true. What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we were more rational and obedient, Adobe would be better off. You're side of the mark about resellers. Adobe locks down pricing and availability of its software; you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody ever and you can't get more than a few dollars of discount from anybody. Having other people sell for you is generally a good thing. But again, in the Adobe way of looking at things, what's good for the customer is bad because customers always do the wrong thing. Adobe is making this change in anticipation of other changes yet to be announced. If you love the subscription model you'll love whatever else they have in mind for you. It's a good time to be an apologist. On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nzwrote: On 12/05/2013, at 6:36 AM, Steve Johnson wrote: Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's no doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also make a case for getting the disks or downloading the software. Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want? Why is mailing me disks for additional cost or providing a download bad for Adobe? Clearly it isn't. There is something else going on. Certainly Adobe will jack up the price of subscription. They might have other things in mind also but the point is, why make everyone adopt a model that doesn't benefit everyone? What's in it for Adobe? That's what I'd like to know. Decreased cost for license management, increased cash flow through subscriptions, constant income stream as opposed to periodic peaks related to new product releases, increased profit margins, better share value, regional price control and management (we typically pay 3x the US cost for the same software), better release management (no more pesky resellers and middlemen), better profits from cutting out middlemen and resellers, therefore even better share value, more accurate profit forecasts at shorter time intervals, therefore even better share value,... Alan -- AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz __**_ You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_go...@pobox.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscribe@lists.**frameusers.comframers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/**mailman/options/framers/dr_** gonzo%40pobox.comhttp://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Steve Johnson, dr_go...@pobox.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Craig Ede wrote: Your point about ownership is well taken. However, having a disk does mean that you have access to a given software package you can count on (and not some changing version of it). Also, given that license, they cannot revoke your ability of use the software in that state, and they have certain obligations to make sure you are able to do that (i.e. they can't simply turn of your license at their end on a whim). Obviously, they can turn off support at some point. Or maybe I am wrong about their responsibilities. I'd love to hear more info on this topic. The FM9 license states that ' you acknowledge that any obligation Adobe may have to support the previous version(s) may end upon the availability of the upgrade or update.' IANAL, but to me that implies they can turn off your license once a new version is available. Adobe's track record isn't that bad: activation for Frame 9 is still available, and when they closed down the activation for CS2, they provided a download for a version that doesn't need activation. Harro de Jong ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
2013-05-13-01T20:20Z Nadine - Nadine, I certainly wouldn't swing the bat if you were within range. On the other hand, having served in the US Army Infantry, I'd call it bursting radius. Well, if you'll accept an American source, please see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism and http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free+market?show=0t=1368475416 . So, I make the answer to your question as, . . . an economic system characterized by . . . distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market. Also, please consider the following. It is a very-close paraphrasing of a statement by a professor of accounting is his class many years ago. The purpose of business is to make money. The purpose of business is _not_ to produce a valuable good or to deliver a worthwhile service. The purpose of business is to _make_money_. And, if you'll allow an allusion from the Bible: The _love_ of money is the root of all evil. (emphasis added because it is often misquoted as Money is the root of all evil. DAS) *Being concerned that Nadine and others might be within bursting radius, puts figurative safety pin back into figurative hand grenade.* Regards, Dave Stamm Information Engineer -Original Message- From: Writer [mailto:generic...@yahoo.ca] Sent: 2013-05-13-Monday 15:56 To: Stamm, David-P45904; dr_go...@pobox.com; a...@alphabyte.co.nz Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only “That's how capitalism is supposed to work.” I don't mean to nitpick, but is that capitalism or free market? *steps back out of Dave's swing range* =D Nadine ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Now, Dave, that's not what Google told me when I did a 2 second search on capitalism vs free market. *figuratively checks to make sure the figurative pin is back in the figurative grenade, then goes back to earning money to support her smart assery* Nadine Nadine - Nadine, I certainly wouldn't swing the bat if you were within range. On the other hand, having served in the US Army Infantry, I'd call it bursting radius. Well, if you'll accept an American source, please see http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism and http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/free+market?show=0t=1368475416 . So, I make the answer to your question as, . . . an economic system characterized by . . . distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market. Also, please consider the following. It is a very-close paraphrasing of a statement by a professor of accounting is his class many years ago. The purpose of business is to make money. The purpose of business is _not_ to produce a valuable good or to deliver a worthwhile service. The purpose of business is to _make_money_. And, if you'll allow an allusion from the Bible: The _love_ of money is the root of all evil. (emphasis added because it is often misquoted as Money is the root of all evil. DAS) *Being concerned that Nadine and others might be within bursting radius, puts figurative safety pin back into figurative hand grenade.* Regards, Dave Stamm Information Engineer ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
The purpose of business is to make money. The purpose of business is _not_ to produce a valuable good or to deliver a worthwhile service. The purpose of business is to _make_money_. I'd go beyond the above a little bit more. :) In my blog on this topic (at this link: http://www.aeris.com/thinking-about-deploying-an-m2m-application/), I talked about why somebody would deploy an M2M application (which is what my company does). It is never a technical decision ... it is a business decision. So, I'd rather say: The purpose of a business is to make a _profit_. And to keep on doing better ... when revenue rises, costs should rise slower. If the revenue drops, the costs should drop faster. Both ways lead to better profitability, although a drop in revenue is often seen as a negative! And there are direct, _and_ indirect, thing that affect the increase in revenue or drop in costs, or both. Z ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
At 16:42 +1200 12/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, Adobe had long since removed the reseller from the channel. Without responding to the many other issues, I just comment that we seem to have successful Adobe resellers here in the UK. -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Hi Steve, These are resellers as in, computer shops selling boxes and stuff? You know, retail channel? Thanks Alan On 12/05/13 11:09 PM, Steve Rickaby wrote: At 16:42 +1200 12/5/13, Alan T Litchfield wrote: Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, Adobe had long since removed the reseller from the channel. Without responding to the many other issues, I just comment that we seem to have successful Adobe resellers here in the UK. -- AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Yes, Steve, it's true. There will be no CS7, just CC (Creative Cloud) apps. http://www.adobe.com/products/creativecloud.html Single apps can be rented for $20/month, the entire suite is $50/month. There are first year discounts for some current users. CC requires that your computer get on-line and renew your subscriptions (licenses) every 30 days. I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] -- Bill Bunny Kuhlman B2Streamlines http://www.b2streamlines.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Ditto what Bill said. Just glad I didn't have to write all of that. :-) -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Swallow Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:22 PM To: Steve Rickaby Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only It's not SaaS, it's subscription. Yes, the name Creative Cloud (CC) is confusing but it's not web-only applications. You download and install them. I like this model for a few reasons: 1. Cheaper for multi-application users. Rather than buying one-off or a suite at a time, you get access to all CC apps for a monthly fee. If you're corporate, that means you can easily control the number of licenses at any given time. (Ever experience licence rot, when you lose an employee or several and have open licenses just collecting dust? You paid for that.) If you're a contractor, you only have to pay for the apps for the duration of the gig, and not have them sitting around unused. (This is great for short-term contracts where they just need an InDesign jockey for a few weeks to edit some files.) 2. While you may only have immediate need for one or a few apps, you have all the others at your disposal to learn. Think about it; how many times did you wish you had access to the full version of a product to learn it for work use evaluation, or for resume fodder? Now you have that option at a reasonable price. 3. You can completely avoid the back version blues. How many times have you worked in a team where you decide on a tool, get the initial funding, and then get push-back on upgrade pricing from the bean counters? And then hire someone new, who needs a license, but they don't sell version X anymore and to get everyone on version Y would be a huge expense? Or your team is merged with another, or your company acquires another company, and your software versions don't match up? Problem solved. I don't see this as being a bad thing. I see it as being different. Bill ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's no doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also make a case for getting the disks or downloading the software. Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want? Why is mailing me disks for additional cost or providing a download bad for Adobe? Clearly it isn't. There is something else going on. Certainly Adobe will jack up the price of subscription. They might have other things in mind also but the point is, why make everyone adopt a model that doesn't benefit everyone? What's in it for Adobe? That's what I'd like to know. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Bethany Lee bethany@lakeshore.comwrote: Ditto what Bill said. Just glad I didn't have to write all of that. :-) -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Bill Swallow Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 2:22 PM To: Steve Rickaby Cc: framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only It's not SaaS, it's subscription. Yes, the name Creative Cloud (CC) is confusing but it's not web-only applications. You download and install them. I like this model for a few reasons: 1. Cheaper for multi-application users. Rather than buying one-off or a suite at a time, you get access to all CC apps for a monthly fee. If you're corporate, that means you can easily control the number of licenses at any given time. (Ever experience licence rot, when you lose an employee or several and have open licenses just collecting dust? You paid for that.) If you're a contractor, you only have to pay for the apps for the duration of the gig, and not have them sitting around unused. (This is great for short-term contracts where they just need an InDesign jockey for a few weeks to edit some files.) 2. While you may only have immediate need for one or a few apps, you have all the others at your disposal to learn. Think about it; how many times did you wish you had access to the full version of a product to learn it for work use evaluation, or for resume fodder? Now you have that option at a reasonable price. 3. You can completely avoid the back version blues. How many times have you worked in a team where you decide on a tool, get the initial funding, and then get push-back on upgrade pricing from the bean counters? And then hire someone new, who needs a license, but they don't sell version X anymore and to get everyone on version Y would be a huge expense? Or your team is merged with another, or your company acquires another company, and your software versions don't match up? Problem solved. I don't see this as being a bad thing. I see it as being different. Bill ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as dr_go...@pobox.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/dr_gonzo%40pobox.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Steve Johnson, dr_go...@pobox.com ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
On 12/05/2013, at 6:36 AM, Steve Johnson wrote: Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's no doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also make a case for getting the disks or downloading the software. Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want? Why is mailing me disks for additional cost or providing a download bad for Adobe? Clearly it isn't. There is something else going on. Certainly Adobe will jack up the price of subscription. They might have other things in mind also but the point is, why make everyone adopt a model that doesn't benefit everyone? What's in it for Adobe? That's what I'd like to know. Decreased cost for license management, increased cash flow through subscriptions, constant income stream as opposed to periodic peaks related to new product releases, increased profit margins, better share value, regional price control and management (we typically pay 3x the US cost for the same software), better release management (no more pesky resellers and middlemen), better profits from cutting out middlemen and resellers, therefore even better share value, more accurate profit forecasts at shorter time intervals, therefore even better share value,... Alan -- AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
This is why I'm uncomfortable with suites of software. Especially ones that are so interdependent. I don't like having all my eggs in one basket. Nadine PS: Z, you seem to be good with numbers. How much are we going to need to raise to create an FM competitor? Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's no doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also make a case for getting the disks or downloading the software. Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want? Why is mailing me disks for additional cost or providing a download bad for Adobe? Clearly it isn't. There is something else going on. Certainly Adobe will jack up the price of subscription. They might have other things in mind also but the point is, why make everyone adopt a model that doesn't benefit everyone? What's in it for Adobe? That's what I'd like to know. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Funny how people put words between the lines... On 12/05/13 12:08 PM, Steve Johnson wrote: That's some interesting points and some of them are probably partially true. What you're saying basically is that Adobe blames its customers for its relative low profit margins and share price. If only we were more rational and obedient, Adobe would be better off. I never said Adobe blames anyone for anything. I am saying that Adobe has shareholders and share values are important. Customers are important too, but they are important because they improve share value (more customers, better share values). However, customers are only valuable when they are encouraged to part with their money, so to have customers pay more frequently is better than when they don't. The problem with cusomters is that they cost money to do business with. The cost of customer management has a negative effect on share value. So, cut the cost of doing business and improve share value. The subscription model Adobe are rolling out does just that. Obedience has nothing to do with it. Don't make it a human factor. Humanity has nothing to do with this. This is economics. You're side of the mark about resellers. Adobe locks down pricing and availability of its software; you can't buy old versions of anything from anybody ever and you can't get more than a few dollars of discount from anybody. Having other people sell for you is generally a good thing. Ignoring the bit about buying old versions, as a former reseller, I can quite confidently tell you that you are wrong. Resellers are expensive to support and no longer bring real value to the product. With the advance of Internet and peer support of products, Adobe had long since removed the reseller from the channel. The subscription model merely removes the last part of the retail chain. Sure, there remain some resellers but they are concerned with large customers who need specific licensing requirements. These are the ones that for Adobe to do itself, are uneconomic. But again, in the Adobe way of looking at things, what's good for the customer is bad because customers always do the wrong thing. Sorry, makes no sense. Customers (those that pay for stuff) always do the right thing when they are relieved of their money. Adobe is making this change in anticipation of other changes yet to be announced. Meh. It's just another way to do business. I have worked out that the subscription model will cost me about twice much to keep getting access to what I have now. It will disadvantage me in the future because I have to continue to pay for something I do not have to continue to pay for now. If you love the subscription model you'll love whatever else they have in mind for you. It's a good time to be an apologist. If I too were a fanboy, then maybe I too would be all smoochy about it. I have been in this business for too many years. I do not like it that this company (or any other) decide that I have not been paying enough for what I have been using and make it so that I pay more. I do not like it that I have to have the corporation in my head every month come subscription time. On the other hand, it is good time to be a user of LaTeX, et al. I am keen to see what Jeremy has to offer. Alan On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Alan T Litchfield a...@alphabyte.co.nz mailto:a...@alphabyte.co.nz wrote: On 12/05/2013, at 6:36 AM, Steve Johnson wrote: Almost everyone keeps ignoring the question of CHOICE. There's no doubt you can make a case for subscription but you can also make a case for getting the disks or downloading the software. Of what benefit to Adobe is depriving us to choose what we want? Why is mailing me disks for additional cost or providing a download bad for Adobe? Clearly it isn't. There is something else going on. Certainly Adobe will jack up the price of subscription. They might have other things in mind also but the point is, why make everyone adopt a model that doesn't benefit everyone? What's in it for Adobe? That's what I'd like to know. Decreased cost for license management, increased cash flow through subscriptions, constant income stream as opposed to periodic peaks related to new product releases, increased profit margins, better share value, regional price control and management (we typically pay 3x the US cost for the same software), better release management (no more pesky resellers and middlemen), better profits from cutting out middlemen and resellers, therefore even better share value, more accurate profit forecasts at shorter time intervals, therefore even better share value,... Alan -- AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz _ You are currently subscribed to
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
One problem that I foresee with 'Cloud' based solutions is that I have a number of customers who are on private/military grade networks who have *no* access to any services outside of their own network. This configuration currently makes the FrameMaker license activation a right pain ... But how will Adobe handle customer seats with no inter'net'work? // Simon BUCH On 09/05/2013 16:37, Steve Rickaby wrote: I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your sentiments/fears exactly, Steve. Nadine - Original Message - From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:37:59 PM Subject: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Look at your license agreement...you dont own them now. On May 9, 2013 12:42 PM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jposad...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jposada99%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
It's not just freelancers that will be affected. Until my company was recently purchased by a larger organization, I had always worked for small to medium-sized businesses as the sole writer. Trying to get a budget for tools could be like pulling teeth. I somehow doubt most of my former employers would ever go for the subscription model. Which means for many sole writers, it will be back to using Word! Alison -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:57 AM To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your sentiments/fears exactly, Steve. Nadine - Original Message - From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:37:59 PM Subject: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alison.craig%40ultrasonix.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
See RoboColum's post on this - http://www.cmcandrew.com/robocolumn/archives/3849 -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 12:57 PM To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your sentiments/fears exactly, Steve. Nadine - Original Message - From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:37:59 PM Subject: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jeff.coatswo...@jonassoftware.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jeff.coatsworth%40jonassoftware.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Actualy, i think they would jump on it. They can spread out the cost evenly over a period of time and if the employee leaves, they can stop the charges...they arent out the full cost. It also changes from capital purchase to operating expense that is treated differently on the books. On May 9, 2013 1:12 PM, Alison Craig alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com wrote: It's not just freelancers that will be affected. Until my company was recently purchased by a larger organization, I had always worked for small to medium-sized businesses as the sole writer. Trying to get a budget for tools could be like pulling teeth. I somehow doubt most of my former employers would ever go for the subscription model. Which means for many sole writers, it will be back to using Word! Alison -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:57 AM To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your sentiments/fears exactly, Steve. Nadine - Original Message - From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:37:59 PM Subject: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alison.craig%40ultrasonix.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jposad...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jposada99%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
I have to agree with John, and last year I would have totally bet the other way. I was, accidentally, an early Cloud subscriber because I couldn't afford to set up new systems with new software. But I could handle the $1 a day charge paid monthly, so that's what I opted for, and it's been fine. The software is always up to date and if I need a package that I don't have installed, it's just point and click without an additional charge. So far, the model's working well for me. Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:18 PM, John Posada jposad...@gmail.com wrote: Actualy, i think they would jump on it. They can spread out the cost evenly over a period of time and if the employee leaves, they can stop the charges...they arent out the full cost. It also changes from capital purchase to operating expense that is treated differently on the books. On May 9, 2013 1:12 PM, Alison Craig alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com wrote: It's not just freelancers that will be affected. Until my company was recently purchased by a larger organization, I had always worked for small to medium-sized businesses as the sole writer. Trying to get a budget for tools could be like pulling teeth. I somehow doubt most of my former employers would ever go for the subscription model. Which means for many sole writers, it will be back to using Word! Alison -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:57 AM To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your sentiments/fears exactly, Steve. Nadine - Original Message - From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:37:59 PM Subject: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alison.craig%40ultrasonix.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jposad...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jposada99%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
RE: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
In my experience, an ongoing expense - small or not - would be a non-starter. You must have experience with employers who actually look at the details, and not just the surface. I'm lucky now, as that's no longer the case for me, but I've lived it many times. Alison -Original Message- From: Art Campbell [mailto:art.campb...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 10:26 AM To: John Posada Cc: Alison Craig; FrameUsers List Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I have to agree with John, and last year I would have totally bet the other way. I was, accidentally, an early Cloud subscriber because I couldn't afford to set up new systems with new software. But I could handle the $1 a day charge paid monthly, so that's what I opted for, and it's been fine. The software is always up to date and if I need a package that I don't have installed, it's just point and click without an additional charge. So far, the model's working well for me. Art Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com ... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52 Vincent and a redheaded girl. -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358 I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA. On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:18 PM, John Posada jposad...@gmail.com wrote: Actualy, i think they would jump on it. They can spread out the cost evenly over a period of time and if the employee leaves, they can stop the charges...they arent out the full cost. It also changes from capital purchase to operating expense that is treated differently on the books. On May 9, 2013 1:12 PM, Alison Craig alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com wrote: It's not just freelancers that will be affected. Until my company was recently purchased by a larger organization, I had always worked for small to medium-sized businesses as the sole writer. Trying to get a budget for tools could be like pulling teeth. I somehow doubt most of my former employers would ever go for the subscription model. Which means for many sole writers, it will be back to using Word! Alison -Original Message- From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com [mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of Writer Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:57 AM To: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.com Subject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share your sentiments/fears exactly, Steve. Nadine - Original Message - From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk To: framers@lists.frameusers.com Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:37:59 PM Subject: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alison.craig%40ul trasonix.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as jposad...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jposada99%40gmail .com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/art.campbell%40gma il.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Also, SaaS and subscription are different concepts.SaaS (like SalesForce, Jira, BaseCamp, Web(prettymuchanything) and many others) are web portals where the computing occurs across a network.Subscription means that you confirm your ability to run the software installed on (and processed on) your local machine. (Diety of choice) forbid you try and run Photoshop, Illustrator, or Captivate as SaaS!!Since TCS followed Creative Cloud's (and thus Adobe's) lead in offering subscriptions, I'd say the writing's pretty much on the wall. However, given the amount of chatter devoted to bug fixes instead of bright shiny new (not terribly requested) new features, this might be the point where resources can be devoted instead to fixing those long-standing issues (pre-version 7!) that never rose to the level of importance given to new, profit-oriented version releases. -MattMatt R. Sullivanco-authorPublishing Fundamentals: Unstructured FrameMaker 11P:714.798.7596 |C:714.585.2335 |m...@mattrsullivan.com@mattrsullivanLinkedInfacebookmattrsullivan.com On May 9, 2013, at 10:26 AM, Art Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com wrote:I have to agree with John, and last year I would have totally bet theother way.I was, accidentally, an early Cloud subscriber because I couldn'tafford to set up new systems with new software. But I could handle the$1 a day charge paid monthly, so that's what I opted for, and it'sbeen fine.The software is always up to date and if I need a package that I don'thave installed, it's just point and click without an additionalcharge.So far, the model's working well for me.ArtArt Campbell art.campb...@gmail.com "... In my opinion, there's nothing in this world beats a '52Vincent and a redheaded girl." -- Richard Thompson No disclaimers apply. DoD 358I support www.TheGrotonLine.com, hyperlocal news for Groton MA.On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 1:18 PM, John Posada jposad...@gmail.com wrote:Actualy, i think they would jump on it. They can spread out the cost evenlyover a period of time and if the employee leaves, they can stop thecharges...they arent out the full cost. It also changes from capitalpurchase to operating expense that is treated differently on the books.On May 9, 2013 1:12 PM, "Alison Craig" alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com wrote:It's not just freelancers that will be affected. Until my company wasrecently purchased by a larger organization, I had always worked for smallto medium-sized businesses as the sole writer. Trying to get a budget fortools could be like pulling teeth. I somehow doubt most of my formeremployers would ever go for the subscription model.Which means for many sole writers, it will be back to using Word!Alison-Original Message-From: framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com[mailto:framers-boun...@lists.frameusers.com] On Behalf Of WriterSent: Thursday, May 09, 2013 9:57 AMTo: Steve Rickaby; framers@lists.frameusers.comSubject: Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscriptiononlyI was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. I share yoursentiments/fears exactly, Steve.Nadine- Original Message -From: Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.ukTo: framers@lists.frameusers.comCc:Sent: Thursday, May 9, 2013 12:37:59 PMSubject: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscriptiononlyI have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available infuture only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker couldfollow?I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates likeAdobe understand how important their software is to the countlessthousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it- but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soonas you stop paying for it.For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat andDreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far lesssure about the future, though.--Steve [somewhat aghast]___You are currently subscribed to framers as alison.cr...@ultrasonix.com.Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.To unsubscribe send a blank email toframers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.comor visithttp://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alison.craig%40ultrasonix.comSend administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visithttp://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.___You are currently subscribed to framers as jposad...@gmail.com.Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.To unsubscribe send a blank email toframers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.comor visithttp://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/jposada99%40gmail.comSend administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visithttp://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.___You are currently subscribed to framers as art.campb...@gmail.com.Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com.To unsubscribe send a blank email
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
It's not SaaS, it's subscription. Yes, the name Creative Cloud (CC) is confusing but it's not web-only applications. You download and install them. I like this model for a few reasons: 1. Cheaper for multi-application users. Rather than buying one-off or a suite at a time, you get access to all CC apps for a monthly fee. If you're corporate, that means you can easily control the number of licenses at any given time. (Ever experience licence rot, when you lose an employee or several and have open licenses just collecting dust? You paid for that.) If you're a contractor, you only have to pay for the apps for the duration of the gig, and not have them sitting around unused. (This is great for short-term contracts where they just need an InDesign jockey for a few weeks to edit some files.) 2. While you may only have immediate need for one or a few apps, you have all the others at your disposal to learn. Think about it; how many times did you wish you had access to the full version of a product to learn it for work use evaluation, or for resume fodder? Now you have that option at a reasonable price. 3. You can completely avoid the back version blues. How many times have you worked in a team where you decide on a tool, get the initial funding, and then get push-back on upgrade pricing from the bean counters? And then hire someone new, who needs a license, but they don't sell version X anymore and to get everyone on version Y would be a huge expense? Or your team is merged with another, or your company acquires another company, and your software versions don't match up? Problem solved. I don't see this as being a bad thing. I see it as being different. Bill On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? I do wonder whether the accountants that run large corporates like Adobe understand how important their software is to the countless thousands of freelances who have to scrape every last penny to buy it - but at least then they own something, not vapor that goes phut as soon as you stop paying for it. For the last two decades FrameMaker, Illustrator, Acrobat and Dreamweaver have been the rocks underpinning what I do. I'm far less sure about the future, though. -- Steve [somewhat aghast] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as techcommd...@gmail.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/techcommdood%40gmail.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- Bill Swallow Writing and Content Strategy Consultant http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
At 14:22 -0400 9/5/13, Bill Swallow wrote: I don't see this as being a bad thing. I see it as being different. Yup, but as soon as you stop paying, you lose access to all your content. That's a real big psychological barrier to bridge. I can see why a subscription model would appeal to corporate users, but for freelances it's a great deal less appealing. What is even less appealing is not being offered the choice of whether to buy or rent the apps. How for example would General Motors fare if they stopped selling cars and just rented them? Time alone will tell whether this will work for Adobe, but it sure doesn't work for a sole worker like me. -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Unfortunately, it's not a rumor. They made a mistake calling the subscription CC, though. It should have been called FU. To paraphrase someone else's quote on one of the Adobe forums, It's like paying for air. Stop paying and everything stops. I've always upgraded my CS every version, even though I couldn't really justify it financially. I just enjoyed having new features and new that it was an option. I didn't have to upgrade. I could keep using my existing version-- even if I had to keep an old computer and operating system around to make it work. What happens now? Now if you quit paying, you have to go pay someone else full price to keep using your existing files with their software. Anyway, it's looking like CS6 will be my last version. I don't plan to subscribe and wish the rest of you would boycott the idea, just to keep the choice there for those of us who need or want it. I see Adobe stock is down about 10% since the announcement. I hope it falls more so that they'll change their minds. Mike On 5/9/2013 11:37 AM, Steve Rickaby wrote: I have just heard a rumor that the CS Suite is going to available in future only on an SaaS basis, by subscription. TCS/FrameMaker could follow? -- /Sent from my supercharged custom computer with three 24 monitors. It beats the crap out of anybody's piddly smartphone./ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
You don't lose your content. The files don't turn into pumpkins when you quit the subscription. Yes, you can't use the native files, but if you didn't plan a content migration knowing you'd be dropping the parent application, whose fault is that? As a consultant, the model is extremely appealing to me. I can purchase use of the tools for as long as I need them. When done, the source content resides with the client, anyway. As for cars, leasing has been a huge business for a couple of decades. There's also a growing adoption of ride shares (pay for shared use of a car), and rentals still are thriving. I can understand if people are averted to the model as opposed to buying a license, but the content issue, specifically, is a non-issue. You should always have a plan/strategy surrounding your content. --- Bill Swallow Writing and Content Strategy http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood On May 9, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: At 14:22 -0400 9/5/13, Bill Swallow wrote: I don't see this as being a bad thing. I see it as being different. Yup, but as soon as you stop paying, you lose access to all your content. That's a real big psychological barrier to bridge. I can see why a subscription model would appeal to corporate users, but for freelances it's a great deal less appealing. What is even less appealing is not being offered the choice of whether to buy or rent the apps. How for example would General Motors fare if they stopped selling cars and just rented them? Time alone will tell whether this will work for Adobe, but it sure doesn't work for a sole worker like me. -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
Agreed to most, except the issue of backward compatibility. As it stands now, I can open old versions of files in old version of software because I have the applications. I don't know how this will be handled with the new software as it evolves. It will only take three years for this to be a manifest issue, I think. I have worked out some comparative costs. This will cost a bunch more than paying a one-off license fee and subsequent upgrades. Over 20 years, about twice as much. What happens about software you use infrequently? What happens to your license when you want to use it again. Do you have uninstall, download and reinstall applications every time? What if the files you need to work on were created in a version that is more than two versions back, and cannot be opened by the new version. If you create a new license, surely that will only be for the current software version. Alan On 10/05/13 9:42 AM, Bill Swallow wrote: You don't lose your content. The files don't turn into pumpkins when you quit the subscription. Yes, you can't use the native files, but if you didn't plan a content migration knowing you'd be dropping the parent application, whose fault is that? As a consultant, the model is extremely appealing to me. I can purchase use of the tools for as long as I need them. When done, the source content resides with the client, anyway. As for cars, leasing has been a huge business for a couple of decades. There's also a growing adoption of ride shares (pay for shared use of a car), and rentals still are thriving. I can understand if people are averted to the model as opposed to buying a license, but the content issue, specifically, is a non-issue. You should always have a plan/strategy surrounding your content. --- Bill Swallow Writing and Content Strategy http://www.linkedin.com/in/techcommdood On May 9, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Steve Rickaby srick...@wordmongers.demon.co.uk wrote: At 14:22 -0400 9/5/13, Bill Swallow wrote: I don't see this as being a bad thing. I see it as being different. Yup, but as soon as you stop paying, you lose access to all your content. That's a real big psychological barrier to bridge. I can see why a subscription model would appeal to corporate users, but for freelances it's a great deal less appealing. What is even less appealing is not being offered the choice of whether to buy or rent the apps. How for example would General Motors fare if they stopped selling cars and just rented them? Time alone will tell whether this will work for Adobe, but it sure doesn't work for a sole worker like me. -- Steve [Trim e-mails: use less disk, use less power, use less planet] ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as a...@alphabyte.co.nz. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/alan%40alphabyte.co.nz Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info. -- AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland http://www.alphabyte.co.nz ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
Re: OT: Corporate madness - Adobe software to be subscription only
As for cars, leasing has been a huge business for a couple of decades. There's also a growing adoption of ride shares (pay for shared use of a car), and rentals still are thriving. Yes, but when they started leasing cars, they didn't remove the option to buy them! I'm not against leasing software. I'm against having my choice removed to own... er... license a perpetual copy that will continue to work without paying a monthly fee forever. And I know I won't lose my content. I was talking about the fact that I've got over a decade's worth of PSD and AI files. Other programs don't always handle these native files so well, if at all. So moving to a subscription model, if I later decide to unsubscribe, I face the task of converting the files beforehand to something more universal, like TIF. Thank goodness my CS6 will still, presumably work for some time, so that I can continue to use my native files as is. But a lot of CC users are going to start out as CC users-- not as former CS users with existing perpetual-license software on their computers. When they unsubscribe, they won't have an old version to fall back on. They'll be done. Mike Wickham -- /Sent from my supercharged custom computer with three 24 monitors. It beats the crap out of anybody's piddly smartphone./ ___ You are currently subscribed to framers as arch...@mail-archive.com. Send list messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com. To unsubscribe send a blank email to framers-unsubscr...@lists.frameusers.com or visit http://lists.frameusers.com/mailman/options/framers/archive%40mail-archive.com Send administrative questions to listad...@frameusers.com. Visit http://www.frameusers.com/ for more resources and info.
