Re: [Bug 236929] FreeBSD Documentation Project should using crowdin

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi y...@freebsd.org
cc: advoc...@freebsd.org


> From: bugzilla-nore...@freebsd.org
> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 02:06:38 +

bugzilla-nore...@freebsd.org wrote:
> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=236929
> 
> Guangyuan Yang  changed:
> 
>What|Removed |Added
> 
>  Status|New |Closed
>  Resolution|--- |Not A Bug
> 
> -- 
> You are receiving this mail because:
> You are the assignee for the bug.

+
> From: bugzilla-nore...@freebsd.org
> Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2019 02:06:23 +
> To: advoc...@freebsd.org

Via the bug system you or someone else writing one way to
advoc...@freebsd.org so you missed my:

> From: "Julian H. Stacey" 
> Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2019 16:34:21 +0200
> To: advoc...@freebsd.org
> 
> There are several automatic translation robots, those I know of are here:
> the page also has an example of embeding: http://beklix.com/~jhs/trans/

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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 Brexit now minority:  2.1 M now over 18, more Remainers;  1.5 M died, less
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Re: [Bug 236929] FreeBSD Documentation Project should using crowdin

[Julian H. Stacey]

bugzilla-nore...@freebsd.org wrote:
> https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=236929
> 
> Bug ID: 236929
>Summary: FreeBSD Documentation Project should using crowdin
>Product: Documentation
>Version: Latest
>   Hardware: Any
> OS: Any
> Status: New
>   Severity: Affects Only Me
>   Priority: ---
>  Component: Advocacy
>   Assignee: advoc...@freebsd.org
>   Reporter: ykla...@gmail.com
> CC: d...@freebsd.org
> 
> Why not using crowdin.com to translate it？

There are several automatic translation robots, those I know of are here:
the page also has an example of embeding:   http://beklix.com/~jhs/trans/

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich Aachen Kent
 Brexit now minority:  2.1 M now over 18, more Remainers;  1.5 M died, less
 Leavers; 700,000 votes Stolen from British Remainers in EU; + 3,000,000
 British globaly dis- franchised.   http://StolenVotes.UK/#email_an_mp
 Revoke Article 50: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584/
 2nd Referendum:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235138/
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Re: CoC does not help in benchmarks

[Julian H. Stacey]

> use less memes? fuck if i know. but i'm not going to rephrase what i said

Trolls swearing etc can alert that a writer may be less likely
linguisticaly articulate, more like a tired, emotional drunk in a
bar.  Mail lists behove self control.  Some cultures on global lists
particularly dis-respect Anglo American mouthing off.  Moderate
text has more chance to persuade opinions.

~/.procmailrc example for /usr/ports/mail/procmail
:0 H
* ^From: (|\")Randi Harper(|\") 
/dev/null

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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 Brexit Referendum stole 3.7 million votes inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Goverment lies it's democratic in Article 50 paragraph 3 of letter to EU.
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Re: CoC does not help in benchmarks

[Julian H. Stacey]

cc stripped

Randi Harper wrote:
> with this clusterfuck of babies crying about their rights to be buttheads

Troll bait.

> I am not in any way a part of this project anymore,

But troll.

> fucking ... shit

Not persuasive.

> Elections are held every 2 years. See you in 2020.

Not if Randi trolls.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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 Brexit Referendum stole 3.7 million votes inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Goverment lies it's democratic in Article 50 paragraph 3 of letter to EU.
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Re: CoC does not help in benchmarks

[Julian H. Stacey]

Erich Dollansky wrote:
> Hi,
> here are the consequences of putting a CoC up high on the priority list:
> https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=windows-freebsd112-8linux=1

FreeBSD performance is really bad on some comparisons there.

> Focusing on software would have made FreeBSD do better.

Yes, The new COC imposition distracted from coding:
  The COC hi-jack replacement promoted by FreeBSD Foundation, was
  contentious, incompetently phrased in places, imposed without
  prior debate, enforced by a few commiters, wasted peoples time &
  caused annoyance.  Aside from the content, the process also
  deserves reprimand. There were complaints to core@.  Core secretary
  wrote me that review was in progress.  Nothing long since.

The hijacked COC needs at least core@ review.
Discussion before would have been better.

I'd at least suggest append:
  "No one may edit this COC, without prior consent of core@"

As the promoting commiters abused due process, stifled debate, &
their hijacked COC foists their own "Code of Conduct Committee" &
taht will deny most appeals, a sceptical eye seems appropriate ;-)

Refs:
https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html
"This Code of Conduct is based on the example policy from the Geek Feminism 
wiki."

https://web.archive.org/web/2017070100*/www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html
https://web.archive.org/web/20170824113511/www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich
 Brexit Referendum stole 3.7 million votes inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Goverment lies it's democratic in Article 50 paragraph 3 of letter to EU.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi, Reference:
> From: Ted Hatfield 
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 13:52:27 -0600 (CST)

Ted Hatfield wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, Federico Caminiti wrote:
> > 2018-03-08 14:07 GMT-03:00 Mike Oliver, KT2T :
> >
> >>
> >> Surely, there is overlap among those who want to use FreeBSD and those
> >> who are embarrassed for the project given how the CoC has been received,
> >> and in that overlap group I can see how some would perceive the CoC as
> >> unnecessary, unnecessarily specific, or insulting.
> >>
> >>
> > I myself am also  concerned about this.  The initial intention to create a
> > Code of Conduct was announced in the " freebsd-announce" mailing list (1)
> > but no further discussion seems to have taken place anywhere. There is a
> > "conduct" mailing list (2) which sound like it was created for a discussion
> > of this sort, but as of today (08/03/2018) it seems to be empty. Like many,
> > my main point of contention is that this was decided behind closed doors
> > and there was no public discussion on the matter.
> >
> > What was the rationale for choosing Geek Feminism Wiki as guide on how to
> > implement a code of conduct and not for example, the KDE Code of Conduct
> > (3) or the Contributor Covenant (4) ?. The last one seems closer in spirit
> > to what is trying to be achieved here, without inflamatory and/or
> > politically charged language. Maybe there are non-arbitrary reasons behind
> > the creation of this new CoC, but since it was discussed in private, we
> > have no way to know.
> >
> > [1] - https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/
> > 2016-January/001691.html
> > [2] - https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/conduct/
> > [3] - https://www.kde.org/code-of-conduct/
> > [4] - https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.html
> > ___
> > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list
> > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy
> > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
> >
> 
> 
> I've read the published Code of Conduct here:
> 
> https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html
> 
> all of the provisions listed appear to me to be reasonable.
> 
> Rather than get all bent out of shape about the fact that it's based upon 
> the example policy at "Geek Feminism" I would like to hear exactly what's 
> in the code of conduct you object to.

There's good bits but bad bits too. Reluctant to reiterate.  I
suggest re-skim the many points other have made. Theyre all in
archive, eg one I posted:
https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2018-March/004699.html

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich
 Brexit Referendum stole 3,700,000 votes, inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi, Reference:
> From: Geheimnisse 
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 14:31:28 -0500

Geheimnisse wrote:
> Nope, Not a troll. 

Troll,  added to my black list.

If it has been seen trolling wider, others might report it to
postmas...@freebsd.org &/or ab...@gmail.com.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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 UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Julian H. Stacey]

> Mailed under an a pseudonym account because 

Troll.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
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 Brexit Referendum stole 3,700,000 votes, inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Julian H. Stacey]

Mark Linimon wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 05, 2018 at 11:46:59PM +0100, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > I agree with the other person's thoughts that FreeBSD fixes uncommited
> > for years destroys incentive to file more fixes.
> 
> I do not know anyone who disagrees with this.
> 
> The issue is how to get people involved with this utterly thankless task.
> 
> And, even if the backlog were to suddenly disappear, we still get more
> PRs per day than we can effectively handle.
> 
> One person is not going to be enough to fix this -- and I know, because
> in the past, I've tried being that one person.
> 
> > If so, it would be nice if FreeBSD Foundation got a refund for CoC
> > & spent it on a a student janitor to clear up years old send-pr's.
> 
> There is a false equivalence here, that time spent on the CoC somehow
> took time away from working on PRs.  I don't detect much overlap between
> the people that work on the one, vs. the other.
> 
> mcl

Yes, little overlap in skill sets, just money. A non tech paid for
the easy job of writing a CoC couldn't do send-pr clearance, though
many a FreeBSD user could write a CoC unpaid, without the bad bits.

Send-pr clearance is much larger, harder, unattractive compared to text or
code creation.  Commercial companies get unattractive jobs done using Money.
FreeBSD Foundation won't have enough money for much send-pr (esp.  if things
like CoC are paid, increasing costs and reducing contributions).

The Foundation could treat each send-pr cleared like a lottery ticket:
each month some randomised bug clearers would get an unexpected bonus.
Bonus winners advertised monthly on FreeBSD media, encouraging more bug
clearance & more donations to fund it.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich
 Brexit Referendum stole 3,700,000 votes, inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi, Reference:
> From: Bryan Drewery <bdrew...@freebsd.org>
> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 11:28:04 -0800

Bryan Drewery wrote:
> This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
> --Dfb89j1723L9zFot341vqJ5ixcKpqkUga
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="AWPme4oYHHsk3S0wyJ5qq8uBNKGZido2m";
>  protected-headers="v1"
> From: Bryan Drewery <bdrew...@freebsd.org>
> To: "Julian H. Stacey" <j...@berklix.com>
> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.org, d...@freebsdfoundation.org
> Message-ID: <55739682-e3d2-52fd-15a5-f89d16e2d...@freebsd.org>
> Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem
> References: <201803051909.w25j9b8s029...@fire.js.berklix.net>
> In-Reply-To: <201803051909.w25j9b8s029...@fire.js.berklix.net>
> 
> --AWPme4oYHHsk3S0wyJ5qq8uBNKGZido2m
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Language: en-US
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> On 3/5/2018 11:09 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > Bryan Drewery wrote:
> >> This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
> >> --oex5zYNtdOsHH7CGnZTm2mPFhuBKYldVo
> >> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=3D"YJ0tBWvLQToy5jfzJdV74lsXFyK=
> kOJvV1";
> >>  protected-headers=3D"v1"
> >> From: Bryan Drewery <bdrew...@freebsd.org>
> >> To: "Julian H. Stacey" <j...@berklix.com>, d...@freebsdfoundation.org
> >> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
> >> Message-ID: <bf158178-ef20-5165-da34-839c1df79...@freebsd.org>
> >> Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem
> >> References: <201803050114.w251dv53087...@fire.js.berklix.net>
> >> In-Reply-To: <201803050114.w251dv53087...@fire.js.berklix.net>
> >>
> >> --YJ0tBWvLQToy5jfzJdV74lsXFyKkOJvV1
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dutf-8
> >> Content-Language: en-US
> >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> >>
> >> On 3/4/2018 5:13 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> >>> d...@freebsdfoundation.org wrote:
> >>>> Hi David,
> >>>>
> >>>> This is Deb Goodkin, Executive Director for the FreeBSD Foundation. =
> Th=3D
> >> e
> >>>> Foundation isn't responsible for the CoC, that would be the FreeBSD
> >>>> Project's core team. Please don't spread mis-information about the
> >>>> Foundation censoring discussions. Someone else on this thread can ho=
> pe=3D
> >> fully
> >>>> direct you to the correct mailing list for discussing your concerns
> >>>> regarding the Code of Conduct.=3D20
> >>>>
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>
> >>>> Deb Goodkin
> >>>> Executive Director
> >>>> The FreeBSD Foundation
> >>> =3D20
> >>> Hi Deb,
> >>> Did the foundation pay for it ?=3D20
> >>
> >> The discussion needs to not demonize people or entities involved on
> >> either side.
> >=20
> > FreeBSD are at liberty to reject a non FreeBSD outsider who wrote this
> > especially if they were paid to write it, even more so if the paid
> > outsider hopes rules she/he wrote they'd like to see imposed on us.
> >=20
> >=20
> >> It seems to me that it would have been better had this CoC
> >> had more outside review and possibly a draft period where the project
> >> asked for community feedback.
> >=20
> > ** A draft & period for comment should have been mandatory,
> > omiting it suggests arrogance or incompetence.
> >=20
> >=20
> >> IMHO it's not too late to go down those
> >> paths but we need to take a deep breath and consider that the intentio=
> ns
> >> of the CoC are only good;
> >=20
> > Maybe, or not,  See ** above.
> >=20
> >=20
> >> that the project should be more welcoming for
> >> everyone.  There's nothing wrong with the Foundation sponsoring a CoC,=
> 
> >> even if it had flaws.
> >=20
> > I think legaly Foundation is not answerable to FreeBSD just to the
> > few who founded the foundation.  Nothing wrong with FreeBSD rejecting
> > an unwanted gift as incompetent waste of money - if they want.
> >=20
> >=20
> >> It likely would need to help sponsor independent
> >> reviews to weed out unneutral language.
> >=20
> > Whoever sprung this on FreeBSD community without warning should be admo=
> nished.
> >=20
> > FreeBSD Foundation could ask for a refund from the incompetent who
> > wrote 

Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Julian H. Stacey]

Bryan Drewery wrote:
> This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
> --oex5zYNtdOsHH7CGnZTm2mPFhuBKYldVo
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="YJ0tBWvLQToy5jfzJdV74lsXFyKkOJvV1";
>  protected-headers="v1"
> From: Bryan Drewery <bdrew...@freebsd.org>
> To: "Julian H. Stacey" <j...@berklix.com>, d...@freebsdfoundation.org
> Cc: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
> Message-ID: <bf158178-ef20-5165-da34-839c1df79...@freebsd.org>
> Subject: Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem
> References: <201803050114.w251dv53087...@fire.js.berklix.net>
> In-Reply-To: <201803050114.w251dv53087...@fire.js.berklix.net>
> 
> --YJ0tBWvLQToy5jfzJdV74lsXFyKkOJvV1
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Language: en-US
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> On 3/4/2018 5:13 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > d...@freebsdfoundation.org wrote:
> >> Hi David,
> >>
> >> This is Deb Goodkin, Executive Director for the FreeBSD Foundation. Th=
> e
> >> Foundation isn't responsible for the CoC, that would be the FreeBSD
> >> Project's core team. Please don't spread mis-information about the
> >> Foundation censoring discussions. Someone else on this thread can hope=
> fully
> >> direct you to the correct mailing list for discussing your concerns
> >> regarding the Code of Conduct.=20
> >>
> >> Sincerely,
> >>
> >> Deb Goodkin
> >> Executive Director
> >> The FreeBSD Foundation
> >=20
> > Hi Deb,
> > Did the foundation pay for it ?=20
> 
> The discussion needs to not demonize people or entities involved on
> either side.

FreeBSD are at liberty to reject a non FreeBSD outsider who wrote this
especially if they were paid to write it, even more so if the paid
outsider hopes rules she/he wrote they'd like to see imposed on us.


> It seems to me that it would have been better had this CoC
> had more outside review and possibly a draft period where the project
> asked for community feedback.

** A draft & period for comment should have been mandatory,
omiting it suggests arrogance or incompetence.


> IMHO it's not too late to go down those
> paths but we need to take a deep breath and consider that the intentions
> of the CoC are only good;

Maybe, or not,  See ** above.


> that the project should be more welcoming for
> everyone.  There's nothing wrong with the Foundation sponsoring a CoC,
> even if it had flaws.

I think legaly Foundation is not answerable to FreeBSD just to the
few who founded the foundation.  Nothing wrong with FreeBSD rejecting
an unwanted gift as incompetent waste of money - if they want.


> It likely would need to help sponsor independent
> reviews to weed out unneutral language.

Whoever sprung this on FreeBSD community without warning should be admonished.

FreeBSD Foundation could ask for a refund from the incompetent who
wrote it, & Foundation in turn could refund those such as the person
who asked "Can I have a refund".

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich
 Brexit Referendum stole 3,700,000 votes, inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Julian H. Stacey]

d...@freebsdfoundation.org wrote:
> Hi David,
> 
> This is Deb Goodkin, Executive Director for the FreeBSD Foundation. The
> Foundation isn't responsible for the CoC, that would be the FreeBSD
> Project's core team. Please don't spread mis-information about the
> Foundation censoring discussions. Someone else on this thread can hopefully
> direct you to the correct mailing list for discussing your concerns
> regarding the Code of Conduct. 
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Deb Goodkin
> Executive Director
> The FreeBSD Foundation

Hi Deb,
Did the foundation pay for it ? 

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich
 Brexit Referendum stole 3,700,000 votes, inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3.
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Re: FreeBSD has a politics problem

[Julian H. Stacey]

> My money may not be a sponsorship money but still donated; on belief what 
> FreeBSD was doing right. Can I get a refund.

Did the foundation really waste money on this ?
https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html 
Bulleted elements are a bad mix of sensible & ridiculous.

A few examples:
"drugs": If someone is an alcy or druggy, code & commits need
to be monitored.  BSD is not art enhanceble with drugs.

   "employment": If code or commits emanate from an NSA employee
   it needs to be outed (pref. by self but any other will do)

   "*hug*" Shock ! Horror ! Heaven forfend such offense ! ;-)


https://www.freebsdfoundation.org has no search box to find 
if/ how much was paid to make FreeBSD & its people look ridiculous.

It reduced my interest to list the FreeBSD Foundation in my will
  (Wills usually list relatives & friends first if alive, but
  sometimes with a default of a group of charities as fallback)

Rather than waste money on rubbish
  "based on the example policy from the Geek Feminism wiki"

One could look at donating money for BSD _code_ via
  https://www.netbsd.org/foundation/ or possibly
  http://www.openbsdfoundation.org/
we share BSD driver etc code after developed anyway.

PS Re. censored media: jobs@freebsd is also censored.

Cheers,
Julian
-- 
Julian Stacey, Computer Consultant, Systems Engineer, BSD Linux Unix, Munich
 Brexit Referendum stole 3,700,000 votes, inc. 700,000 from British in EU.
 UK Govt. lied it's "democratic" in Article 50 letter to EU paragraph 3.
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Re: Short FreeBSD talk on 34c3?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hannes Hauswedell wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> the FSFE is planning a session on the 34th Chaos Communication Congress
> about Free operating systems that are not based on Linux. We want to
> promote "free software diversity" and would love have someone introduce
> FreeBSD to the audience. We are also inviting the other BSDs,
> OpenSolaris/IllumOS and also GNU/Hurd :D

27th to 30th December 2017, 34th Chaos Communication Congress Leipzig.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=leipzig#map=11/51.3395/12.3811
South West of Berlin, Germany, Europe

I've forwarded to Munich Germany group:
http://berklix.org/bim/ Berkeley In Munich
http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/listinfo/bim

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] EuroBSDcon Call for Proposals in Paris, France 21-24.9.2017

[Julian H. Stacey]

> Call for Proposals for the EuroBSDCon 2017 conference which will take
> place in Paris, France from 21st through 24th of September 2017:
> https://2017.eurobsdcon.org/call-for-proposals/

For BSD Paris Car Drivers: New restriction, starts 1st April 2017.
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/travel/2017/03/driving-to-france-check-now-if-you-need-a-new-emissions-sticker-to-avoid-a-possible-100-fine
"Paris ... 'Crit'Air' scheme ...  stickers cost #4.80 ...  on-the-spot
fine of up to #135 ... one non-official site selling the vignettes
at more than six times the price ... can take up to 30 days from
your application to receive the vignette" 

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: A how-to guide which you might wish to use for freebsd advocacy

[Julian H. Stacey]

"Jukka A. Ukkonen" wrote freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/notes/jukka-ukkonen/upgrading-the-storage-disk-to-finnsat-fh05-hdr-digital-tv-receiver-while-retaini/10208639116987804
> 
> Feel free to publish the link on the freebsd web site or otherwise
> distribute it further.

I added cc: freebsd...@freebsd.org as it's about file systems & Ext2 & offsets.

(BTW I have no facebook login, so can assure readers Jukka's
page is public, no fbook login needed to access URL)

An extract re FS.

] FreeBSD will by default not accept the Finnsat generated partition
] for mounting. The trick is that Finnsat creates partitions with
] slack alignment. FreeBSD knows that a live ext2fs has to be a
] multiple of 4kB, 4096 bytes in size, i.e. 8 disk blocks, 8*512
] bytes. If the partition size is not perfectly aligned, FreeBSD does
] not allow read-write mount to an ext2fs instance. With all likelihood
] it might be a broken file system. Why should FreeBSD help making
] things worse?
] 
] So, you will have to adjust the partition size such that its length
] will be a multiple of 8 disk blocks. The tool for this is gpart
] (geom partition) which both modifies the partition tables and shows
] their contents. First use the command

Thanks Jukka,

I've bcc'd a friend who I discussed Humax TV recorders with a while
back, on similar issues, some time when I'm visiting the town where
my 3 Humax owner friends are, I hope to find time to experiment
with my USB to SATA converter.

This thread is archived here:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2016-August/004619.html
& under here:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2016-August/date.html

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Sparc64 support

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi advoc...@freebsd.org
An interesting concluding point on hackers@

... 
 For a company that has never heard of FreeBSD to adopt it
 because it will extend the life of their hardware I think that is a very
 powerful thing.
 
 -Bill Sorenson

Thread here:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-hackers/2015-August/048090.html

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Toxic Community Member

[Julian H. Stacey]

 Remember that both her username, and her statements, strongly imply
 that she is strongly connected to the FreeBSD Foundation (and/or
 community).

If appropriate, refer a troll's URLs to the Foundation,
which could sue for defamation or whatever if appropriate.
Best not feed a troll with argument, penalise it instead.

Cheers,
Julian
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FreeBSD in the news! (fwd)

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi advoc...@freebsd.org,
Forwarded from: Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com http://berklix.com/~jhs/

--- Forwarded Message
Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2015 18:49:00 -0400
Subject: FreeBSD in the news!
From: freen...@gmail.com
To: freebsd-...@freebsd.org
X-BeenThere: freebsd-...@freebsd.org
List-Archive: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-doc/

   âFreeBSD Doc. Team,

   Came across this cool item in Distrowatch's most recent news issue:

   âhttp://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20150608#news

   From Distrowatch:

   Unix has a long and interesting history along with a correspondingly
   tangled family tree. The original Unix operating system spawned a huge
   collection of children, cousins and clones which makes navigating the
   politics of modern Linux/BSD/MINIX/Unix community forums a truly
   bizarre experience. For those of us interested in operating system
   history there is help to be found. A document called [1]A Repository
   with 44 Years of Unix Evolution offers us a written history of Unix
   complete with diagrams and graphs that outline where modern open source
   Unix (particularlyâ [2]FreeBSD) came from. 'As can be seen in Figure 1,
   a modern version of Unix (FreeBSD 9) still contains visible chunks of
   code from BSD 4.3, BSD 4.3 Net/2, and FreeBSD 2.0. Interestingly, the
   Figure shows that code developed during the frantic dash to create an
   open source operating system out of the code released by Berkeley
   (386BSD and FreeBSD 1.0) does not seem to have survived. The oldest
   code in FreeBSD 9 appears to be an 18-line sequence in the C library
   file timezone.c, which can also be found in the 7th Edition Unix file
   with the same name and a time stamp of January 10th, 1979 - 36 years
   ago.'  The [3]document contains all sorts of interesting bits of trivia
   and will make it easier to understand where modern FreeBSD comes from.

   I think visitors to the www.freebsd.org WWW site would be intrigued and
   impressed to know that today's latest -RELEASE distribution of FreeBSD
   is the culmination of 36 years of continuous, iterative development,
   testing, refinement, optimization, and improvement...and now we have a
   rigorous academic paper to prove it!

   Thanks,

   Austin Kim

   Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE
   network.

References

   1. 
http://www.dmst.aueb.gr/dds/pubs/conf/2015-MSR-Unix-History/html/Spi15c.html
   2. http://distrowatch.com/freebsd
   3. 
http://www.dmst.aueb.gr/dds/pubs/conf/2015-MSR-Unix-History/html/Spi15c.html

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Re: FreeBSD foundation flyers translation in french

[Julian H. Stacey]

Rodrigo OSORIO wrote:
 This mail target a french-speaking audience, so the rest of the mail 
 will be in french. Sorry.

Wrong list ! This is a global English list  If we globaly posted local
language noise on list, it would kill the list.  No courtesy
translation attached made the post worse; see URLs @
http://berklix.com/~jhs/trans/

To write in French to a subset of French who don't want English,
copy the example of some Germans who created German BSD
lists for the subset of Germans who want to discuss in German.
http://www.freebsd.de/mailinglists.html

I read French, it had nothing new re advocacy for non French,
just an appeal to check French translations, try
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-translators

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Correction for

[Julian H. Stacey]

Beeblebrox wrote:
 The post below shows up at #7 in google search for freebsd pf version.
 The title of the post is Do not use FreeBSD 9.0 as a PF firewall 

http://www.pantz.org/software/pf/do_not_use_freebsd_9.0_as_a_pf_firewall.html

Posted on 02-20-2012 02:59:21 UTC | Updated on 03-29-2012 02:35:09 UTC

Near 2 years old. Most readers of PD src OSs know a .0 release is
adventurous (though page author didnt mention that).  Most readers long
since would know to search for newer FreeBSDs, 
probably see 9.0 was dropped 2013-03-31, 8.5 month back.

  http://www.freebsd.org/security/unsupported.html


 Probably a known issue, but it could be useful to demand a follow-up post
 along the lines 9.2 is now the norm and sysutils/pftop is no longer
 broken.

Only Request not Demand, else you'll fail, annoy yourself  provoke strife.


 Failing that, lets set up a FreeBSD malicious sites page, where

No! It's just some guy who tried another UX,
who ran out of time before he learned all the differences.
Better not divert to create  maintain a growing set
of correctons to ever more ancient non freebsd.org blogs.


 deliberately misleading content or sites witch refuse to correct their
...which is a different word not a typo.

It is not obvious he deliberately got things wrong IMO,
(When I last tried Linux for interest, I'm sure I got things wrong).


 slander are listed and pushed on to search engines. Just as a newspaper must

Wrong law. Slander is spoken, Libel is written.


 retract erroneous news reports, Blogs are also obligated to publish
 corrective measures taken by the companies or organizations which they have
 accused.

Forget law :
  - Of near 200 sovereign global nations independent legal systems,
few might obligate web page corrections,  fewer enforce it,
 only then if You pay a lawyer.
  - If something is not a page claiming to be a maintained current
comparison, but merely a Blog (= b[.+]log ?) Log of experiences at Date,
(as that page does) I see no obligation to waste time updating it.
  - Don't Demand a fix, Offer author a friendly short update ready
to drop in, with href= to wherever your research with
http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html shows fixes were made.
  - Target MS for strife, not a BSD or a Linux.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: About FreeBSD.org visitors

[Julian H. Stacey]

Christopher Henderson wrote:
 Hello Unix Fans,
 
 I'm an on again/off again BSD/Linux user.  I'll spend a few years in one, 
 then 
 the other, etc.  I'm getting the FreeBSD itch again so I visited the website. 
  
 One big problem for me is that there is no obvious link from the front page 
 listing supported hardware.  I finally stumbled upon the release notes but 
 its 
 just a flat text file.  Why not HTML?  I hated having to scroll through it to 
 find out if my wifi card is supported (Alas, it is not.  But OpenBSD supports 
 it.).  

Yes, I just went that route searching for a driver, hard work,
have a look at http://www.berklix.org/~jhs/txt/driver_search.html

Turns out one wireless driver (urtwn, Realtek RTL8188CU/RTL8192CU
USB IEEE 802.11b/g/n, Belkin F7D1102 Surf Wireless Micro D-Link
DWA-131 Edimax EW-7811Un Netgear WNA1000M Realtek RTL8192CU Realtek
RTL8188CUS ) was never put in 9 but is in FreeBSD 10 Alpha release,
if you'r luck may be the same one I found.  I just downloaded a 10
.iso alpha to try.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: 20 significant FreeBSD events?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Jeremy C. Reed wrote:
 I'd like to write an article (a lot later this year) celebrating 
 FreeBSD's upcoming great milestone by briefly summarizing the 20 most 
 significant events in FreeBSD's life.  It doesn't have to be one event 
 per each year, but that would be an interesting thing to do also.
 
 Please share your thoughts and opinions for this. (I already have a list 
 in progress.) You may email me directly off-list if you'd like.
 
 (I may also use this list for further research toward my book on BSD 
 history. See a brief status report here: 
 http://www.reedmedia.net/books/bsd-history/ )

Ideas, Not all in cron. order:

Precursors:
  - SUID bit patent donated from Bell/Unix Dennis Ritchie to PD (when?)
  - 386BSD  Bill Jollitz
Early Life 
  - 386BSD Patchkits 
{
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/history.html

http://www.public.iastate.edu/~gendalia/FAQ/FAQ_01
For our European users, I have included these notes from 
Julian 
Stacey (sta...@guug.de) and Christian Seyb (c...@gold.muc.de) 
concerning locations and methods for getting 386bsd in Europe
... 
from Jordan Hubbard:

On the morning of 30 December, 1993, and after many many 
delays, 
the first official release of FreeBSD 1.0 began shipping on 
CDROM
}

  - The 386BSD/NetBSD/FreeBSD split
(was it or wasn't it a split from 386BSD via Net to Free or 386BSD
direct to both FreeBSD  NetBSD ? )
{
{
A friend (bcc'd) active then  still now has
recollected to me a split from NetBSD to form
FreeBSD, yet I mostly recall a progression from
386BSD via patchkits to FreeBSD, I'm tempted to
trust his memory more than mine, but not sure :-)

The URL below suggests parallel evolution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/386BSD
After the release of 386BSD 0.1, a group
of users began collecting bug fixes and
enhancements, releasing them as an unofficial
patchkit. Due to differences of opinion
between the Jolitzes and the patchkit
maintainers over the future direction and
release schedule of 386BSD, the maintainers
of the patchkit founded the FreeBSD project
in 1993... Around the same time, the NetBSD
project was founded by ...

http://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-archive/NetBSD-1.0/CHANGES
NetBSD 0.8 to NetBSD 0.9: ... add patch00144
(I dont know where #144 came from, but it
was my tweak to compress that Jordan rolled
back into patchkit 36 or so after he'd given
me 18 or so. 

Somewhere Ive seen individual patchkit lists, but
here's just a list of all contributors:

http://docs.freebsd.org/doc/3.3-RELEASE/usr/share/doc/handbook/x19406.html
}
- 1.0 Release Dec. 93

http://web.archive.org/web/19961221043141/http://www.freebsd.org/releases/index.html
- 1.1

http://web.archive.org/web/19961222050828/http://www.freebsd.org/releases/1.1/RELNOTES.FreeBSD
It is based heavily on Bill Jolitz's 386BSD
0.1, with additions from the patchkit,
NetBSD, CSRG, and the Free Software Foundation.
}


  - The USL v UCB etc settlement (secret content, signatories 
could not disclose, but lawsuits stopped  a files discarded  rewritten).
  - An estimated date of when Linux end user numbers pulled ahead of BSD ?
(The skeleton in our closet: BSD was there before Linux,
but Linux pulled ahead with cheap floppy sets ( later
CDROMs) sold by students via magazine adverts, while we
BSD'ers did not bother with cloning floppies etc for little or
no reward, except for persistent friends)
  - When FreeBSD ${arch} went [well] beyond 386 ?
  - BSD licence reduction - 1 UCB naming clause less.
  - The Dragonfly divergence.  
  - The OpenBSD overlay (different sort of split)
  - 1st live (run from CD) .iso shipped by .org
  - Democracy arrives: election of core by commiters etc
  - FreeBSD Foundation created,  when it exceeded 5x10^5 $/annum
  - 1st FreeBSD conference, 1st in Can, 1st in EU
  - Security intrusions (2 to my memory, the recent  
years back after which there was a call to re-read all src/ code.)
  - The move from majordomo@ to web based http://mailman
  - The move from sccs (or was that pre FreeBSD?) to cvs  cvs to svn
  - When Ports exceeded 1,000, 10,100, 

Re: AW: Why Are You Using FreeBSD?

[Julian H. Stacey]

 FreeBSD should position itself as the best product for newcomers to the 
 UNIX-world.

No. It could damage FreeBSD.  At present we largely just need to
educate newcomers from eg Linux etc (who already know some Unix),

We don't need to be swamped with noise from lots of clueless Microsoft
zeroes, who don't / can't / won't think  will not read manuals, 
won't even in desperation occasionaly look at source code for a clue.

Clueless mouse clicking, lazy loosers are served (*) by Microsoft.  
(* `Served': As cows are, by a bull ;-) 

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: [Fwd: ] The inquiry about EFF

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi,

 I think the idea of inquiring about the EFF licences to be a good one
 but I hardly think this email is well written. Are you a native
 speaker of English? 

toredhiddenuser@ seem a troll. I dropped its CC. 
You'r right, it's not native English.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: virtualbox-ose on FBSD

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi,
Reference:
 From: Paul Lambert eb30...@gmail.com 
 Date: Sun, 29 Jan 2012 23:50:32 -0500 
 Message-id:   
 CAESDY12Ohw=blyzh6h_7rckfepe4_gm_m54fbgsvri0xbdk...@mail.gmail.com 

Paul Lambert wrote:
 I have completed installing VB on FBSD with good results to report.  Though
 it did require several days of researching various system tweaks the up and
 running VB that I have is almost 100% on par with VMware.  I have a couple
 of Windows VMs running and I believe FBSD is a better virtual host than
 VMware on Fedora.  However, since I have not run VB on Fedora nor VMware on
 FreeBSD this is only an unsupported observation at this point.
 
 I would like to communicate with the FBSD VM evangelist about several
 topics if possible one topic is regarding USB.

freebsd-emulat...@freebsd.org
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-emulation

http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-usb

 Also, I would like to communicate with the FBSD desktop evangelist as well

http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo

 about a few ideas particularly someone who has access to Firefox/Mozilla
 developers.
 
 Thanks
 
 Paul
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Re: Suggested article to be referenced from FreeBSD Home Page

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi,
Hans Ottevanger wrote:
 Hi advocates,
 
 This article
 
 http://www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/why-arent-you-using-freebsd-178119?page=0,1
 
 was discussed on Slashdot shortly after it appeared.
 
 Still, I think the article is of a quite reasonable quality and is good 
 publicity for FreeBSD. It certainly deserves to be mentioned under In 
 the media on www.freebsd.org.
 
 And if this is not the right list: who do I need to contact for this?

I recall webmas...@freebsd.org often not responsive,
So either use
send-pr 

or from
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo
freebsd-www FreeBSD Project Webmasters
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-www
 
 Kind regards,
 
 Hans Ottevanger

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: T-Dose 56 November

[Julian H. Stacey]

Rob Snelders wrote:
 Hi All,
 
 The 5th and 6th November is the 6th edition of T-Dose. This is a free 
 Open-Source Conference held in the city of Eindhoven, The Netherlands.
 On this conference we are trying to hold a open-source 
 software-market. We would like to ask if FreeBSD is interested in a 
 stand at the market to promote and discuss about Open Source.

Hi 
Late reply as just got back:
FYI
http://softwarefreedomday.org
http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss

has a mail list with other groups who may be interested too.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Most secure Operating-System?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi Alec

 If my project proposal is successful, I will be implementing this
 system to replace a  windows environment at one of the largest banks
 in the country.

Which country ? There's about 190 !  eg Luxembourg has lots of banks  ;-)


If you are proposing OpenBSD, presumably you first posted
on their list, so please post the URL to that thread, to save us
repeating stuff etc.

If you haven't ...  be careful, people might suspect troll bait.
This list here is for FreeBSD not OpenBSD.

For BSD info, you can get multi lingual leaflets at 
http://www.allnet.de 

You might get more useful balanced advice by going to a local BSD
group  offering to buy a free beer from one of each BSD camp to advise you.

Or,
Try inviting your local BSD guys to give a comparative
20 mins each on *BSDs as a combo lecture at your local city's
http://www.softwarefreedomday.org 
 please send us URLs to the talks after.  

You can afford to buy them all a beer  pizza, to reward them to
prepare their talks 'cos you said this is for a big bank chain ;-)

Or, for professional advice please contact your nearest BSD consultant:
http://berklix.com/consultants/ 
worldwide geographic indexed, more entries welcome.

Cheers,
Julian
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 http://www.softwarefreedomday.org 17th Sept,  http://berklix.org/sfd/ Oct.
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Re: BSD media is going to 200 cities for http://softwarefreedomday.org

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi,
Mark Lein wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com wrote:
 
  Hi advoc...@freebsd.org
  BSD media is in transit to 200 global cities for
  http://softwarefreedomday.org in 23 days
 
  However it /or other BSD media will need copying to keep up with Linux
  as theres a Lot more free Ubuntu CDROMs going out at the same time,
  (a question of what richest sponsor pays most for)
 
  You could offer to run off a batch for your local city's SFD team.
  Maybe charge a beer or coffee copying charge per media to cover cost ?
 
  You could join the softwarefreedomday.org team in your local city,
  to help promote free software.
 http://softwarefreedomday.org/map/index.php?year=2011
 
  A sample from Munich Germany http://berklix.org/sfd/
 
  Cheers,
  Julian
 
 Now first off, don't get me wrong as I love FreeBSD... but wouldn't it make
 more sense to send out something like PC-BSD? Something that people can run
 without muss nor fuss, like Ubuntu?
 
 Mark

Hi all,
Which BSD media ended up in SFD city packs I'm not sure:
  I haven't received mine yet.  FreBSD logo is on
  http://softwarefreedomday.org, PC-BSD was also considered.  FreeBSD
  Foundation  IX Systems were in the loop. I started the initiative
  to add BSD media, but dropped out when it became more a logistics
  decision: who could rush provide bulk BSD media to the SFD central
  distribution point before city packs were globaly distributed.

SFD would not be averse to more variety of BSDs  Linuxes etc.  200 BSD
discs, 1 per city is just a start, SFD hopes cities can localy
replicate BSD media.  I encourage *BSD people to contact local city SFD
groups,  offer to copy a variety of *BSD media, give lectures.  do
installs, hand out media or leaflets whatever you fancy.

It's a day for *BSD  *Linux etc to co-operate together, to evangelise
against proprietary closed commercial binary, but If we BSD don't
act, as Ubuntu has a rich  generous sponsor, on the day, Ubuntu
media will out number BSD media by 100 to 1.

Cheers,
Julian
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BSD media is going to 200 cities for http://softwarefreedomday.org

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi advoc...@freebsd.org
BSD media is in transit to 200 global cities for
http://softwarefreedomday.org in 23 days

However it /or other BSD media will need copying to keep up with Linux
as theres a Lot more free Ubuntu CDROMs going out at the same time,
(a question of what richest sponsor pays most for)

You could offer to run off a batch for your local city's SFD team.
Maybe charge a beer or coffee copying charge per media to cover cost ?

You could join the softwarefreedomday.org team in your local city,
to help promote free software.
http://softwarefreedomday.org/map/index.php?year=2011

A sample from Munich Germany http://berklix.org/sfd/

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Netcraft reliability survey

[Julian H. Stacey]

Mason Loring Bliss ma...@blisses.org wrote:


 Attached,

Not attached.   (Mailman discards attachments on various lists).


  please find a screenshot of the current front page of Netcraft.
 This can be seen here:
 http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2011/07/08/most-reliable-hosting-company-sites-in-june-2011.html

Not top page now, 
Never was a copy of top page,
but an archived copy of Part of what was top page.


 I thought it might be worth a mention on the freebsd.org front page.

Not chance on _front_ page, IMO.  It would have to come off again next month.
Nice idea to put a reference somewhere to top 3 all being FreeBSD that month.

Run send-pr  provide text diff  specify which www sub page it should apply to,
to achieve what you suggest.  Just posting this list will not achieve it.


 I'm not subscribed to advocacy@, so if you want to reply to me, please do so
 explicitly.

DoneMason Loring Bliss ma...@blisses.org

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Netcraft reliability survey

[Julian H. Stacey]

Mason Loring Bliss
cc advocacy@

 From: Mason Loring Bliss ma...@blisses.org 
 Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2011 12:57:30 -0400 
 Message-id:   20110810165730.gd2...@blisses.org 

Mason Loring Bliss wrote:
 On Wed, Aug 10, 2011 at 06:37:44PM +0200, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
 
  I restored cc:advoc...@freebsd.org
 
 Posting something sent privately to a public list is inappropriate and in
 general considered rude. Perhaps you've not been using the Internet terribly
 long, so I'll forgive it this time, but look into netiquette sometime. Here's
 a good start:

No one else explained to you how to contribute your info. to FreeBSD
So I tried, as I just knew it would get buried in mail archive, 
FreeBSD would not benefit from your posting unless you bothered to
send-pr  identify a particular FreeBSD web page where we could
incorporate a text  link.

So you wrote:
1 You don't use FreeBSD, 
2 You are not subscribed to advoc...@freebsd.org, 
3 You do not want to contribute, 
4 You called me a pedant.
Well I'm easy on (4),
I don't know you,  don't need your opinion after 1,2,3.
But then
5) You moan about restoral of CC advocacy@,
   but 1,2,3 are relevant to the list thread,
   as it's thus clear one of us should do
   work you refuse.
Ref.:
 If you will not install FreeBSD, Use http://www.freebsd.org/send-pr.html ,
 Do neither to prove yourself irrelevant to FreeBSD as no page would change.

Now 
6 You insult advoc...@freebsd.org
   Is the advocacy list filled with morons?

Please do not abuse list advoc...@freebsd.org

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Re: Netcraft reliability survey

[Julian H. Stacey]

Jared Barneck wrote:
  Julian H. Stacey wrote:
  I found a freebsd.org page where it could be added,  ran a send-pr
  I'll post ID when I get auto reply.

 Thanks Julian!

Thanks to you too Jared, I see you were next volunteer up to bat, well done :-)

http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=159664
Now awaits a commiter presumably from freebsd-www@
If any of you want to add text / whatever, One can click on Submit Followup

Cheers,
Julian
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http://www.softwarefreedomday.org global city teams recruitment

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi advoc...@freebsd.org

http://www.softwarefreedomday.org are recruiting city teams to promote
Free Software globally on Sept 17th.

Any teams that get registered in the next week or just over will also get
a free shipment of proomotional goodies. Inc Ubuntu CDs.

yes, not the right note ideally for us perhaps, but if it gets people of
Micro$oft its still good.

I wrote to http://freebsdfoundation.org/ to see if they fancied sponsoring
some BSD CDs.

Here's an example of page set up for team Munich city Muenchen country Germany
  http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2011/Germany/Muenchen/Munich
  http://berklix.org/sfd/

Please consider joining with other free software groups in your
local city to get a team together for http://www.softwarefreedomday.org
If you'r quick about it, you can get a publicity starter pack of
freebies from softwarefreedomday.org

PS I hold no official position or remit etc with any of 
softwarefreedomday.org
freebsd.org
freebsdfoundation.org
I'm just a long term user  code contributor to FreeBSD,
 a team leader for softwarefreedomday.org for my local city.

Its an opportunity for us to co-operate globaly for a day, with
other BSD  Linux  FSF  Perl  Apache etc people in our individual cities.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Website Add Request

[Julian H. Stacey]

 Hello FreeBSDers,
 
I am asking you to add our ArabBSD website in website list supporting
 FreeBSD. We have summer training for grapping FreeBSD developers which will
 start by the next week. All the materials for our summer training will be
 available on the website. We will start uploading by the next week. Our
 website is https://sites.google.com/site/arabbsd/
 
 Regards,
 
 Mohammed

freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org is wrong list to ask on

webmaster@ 
might work though I dont recall success with that

Look at list of mail lists 
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo
 see:
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-www

Maybe also use send-pr
category www

Cheers,
Julian
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Magazine article authors sought for a Linux mag that would take BSD

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi advoc...@freebsd.org
A Linux magazine in Munich Germany is advertising to pay for articles
on OS's other than Linux, eg could include BSD. They posted to a
Munich Solaris group (forwarded below). He wrote in German to that
list, but he says articles acceptable in English too.  If interested
contact Oliver Frommel ofrom...@linuxnewmedia.de direct.

Disclaimer: I'm not involved (just also in Munich, so noticed posting)

Forwarded from: Julian Stacey j...@berklix.com http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/

--- Forwarded Message

From ug-mucosug-boun...@opensolaris.org Wed Jan 13 17:20:28 2010
From: Oliver Frommel ofrom...@linuxnewmedia.de
To: ug-muco...@opensolaris.org
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2010 17:02:25 +0100
Message-Id: 20100113160227.84c5a3030...@mail.linux-new-media.de
Subject: [ug-mucosug] Autoren gesucht
List-Id: Munich OpenSolaris User Group ug-mucosug.opensolaris.org
List-Unsubscribe: http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/options/ug-mucosug,
mailto:ug-mucosug-requ...@opensolaris.org?subject=unsubscribe
List-Archive: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ug-mucosug
List-Post: mailto:ug-muco...@opensolaris.org
List-Help: mailto:ug-mucosug-requ...@opensolaris.org?subject=help
List-Subscribe: http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/ug-mucosug,
mailto:ug-mucosug-requ...@opensolaris.org?subject=subscribe
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed; DelSp=yes
Sender: ug-mucosug-boun...@opensolaris.org

Hallo zusammen,

darf ich mich kurz vorstellen, ich arbeite beim Verlag Linux New Media  
AG als Chefredakteur der Admin-Sonderhefte, die bisher vorwiegend  
Linux gewidmet sind. Wir möchten uns allerdings in Zukunft auch  
anderen Systemen mehr öffnen, darunter (Open)Solaris.

Deshalb würde ich mich über Artikelvorschläge zu OpenSolaris und  
Verwandten freuen, am liebsten lösungsorientiert, aber gerne auch die  
Vorstellung von besonderer Technologie und so weiter. Veröffentlichte  
Artikel werden selbstverständlich bezahlt. Nicht zuletzt interessiert  
mich auch eure Meinung zu der thematischen Erweiterung unserer  
Zeitschrift. Ihr könnt diese Mail auch gerne an Interessierte  
weiterleiten, auch englischsprachige Artikel sind prinzipiell  
willkommen.

Die bisherige Homepage des Hefts findet ihr hier, bald wird es aber  
eine eigenständige Site geben, auf der auch (Open)Solaris angemessen  
repräsentiert ist: http://www.linux-magazin.de/sonderheft

Beste Grüße
Oliver
- -- 
Linux New Media AG, Putzbrunner Str. 71, 81739 München, Germany
Phone: +49 89 9934 1110, Fax: +49 89 9934 1198
http://www.linuxnewmedia.de
- ---
Sitz der Gesellschaft: Putzbrunner Str. 71, 81739 München
Amtsgericht München: HRB 129161
Vorstand: Rosemarie Schuster, Hermann Plank
Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Rudolf Strobl

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http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/ug-mucosug



--- End of Forwarded Message

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http://bsdfund.org/contact/

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi advocacy@ people
From browser ports/www/dillo side bar of LinuxFund I found:
http://www.linuxfund.org/   -
http://bsdfund.org/card/-
http://bsdfund.org/contact/
Names of organisers Michael Dexter  David Mandel are not familiar to me.
Wondering if a competitor to FreeBSD Foundation .. or .. ?

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: http://bsdfund.org/contact/

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi,
Reference:
 From: Steven Kreuzer skreu...@freebsd.org 
 Date: Mon, 4 Jan 2010 17:09:23 -0500 
 Message-id:   4913ef8e-a6f2-45b0-9dd0-e324ab3b5...@freebsd.org 

Steven Kreuzer wrote:
 
 On Jan 4, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
 
  Hi advocacy@ people
  From browser ports/www/dillo side bar of LinuxFund I found:
  http://www.linuxfund.org/   -
  http://bsdfund.org/card/-
  http://bsdfund.org/contact/
  Names of organisers Michael Dexter  David Mandel are not familiar to me.
  Wondering if a competitor to FreeBSD Foundation .. or .. ?
 
 
 Michael Dexter was on bsdtalk to talk about the bsd fund and he gave a good 
 overview
 of what they are doing. You can listen to it at 
 http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/2009/06/bsdtalk175-bsdfund-with-michael-dexterhtml

Page not found
Sorry, the page you were looking for in the blog bsdtalk does not exist.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: http://bsdfund.org/contact/

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi Steven

 Not sure what happened in your mail reader, but there should be a . between 
 bsdtalk175-bsdfund-with-michael-dexter and html

Whoops, tired else I should have spotted that thanks.

http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=10803+0+current/freebsd-advocacy
shows yours as
--
Michael Dexter was on bsdtalk to talk about the bsd fund and he gave a =
good overview
of what they are doing. You can listen to it at =

http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/2009/06/bsdtalk175-bsdfund-with-michael-dexter=
.html

--
Steven Kreuzer
--

Checking my local copy I see
--
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by 
fire.js.berklix.net id o04MA3X5070728


Michael Dexter was on bsdtalk to talk about the bsd fund and he gave a 
good overview
of what they are doing. You can listen to it at 
http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/2009/06/bsdtalk175-bsdfund-with-michael-dexterhtml

- --
Steven Kreuzer
--

I'm using exmh 2.7.2 as mail reader.

Not sure if my Autoconvert failed. (I dislike quoted printable)
 reccomend typing \r by reflex when one gets near col 80 ;-)


 Try this url: http://bit.ly/62Meme

Thanks, that does forward to 
http://bsdtalk.blogspot.com/2009/06/bsdtalk175-bsdfund-with-michael-dexter.html
Downloading now.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: why BSDs got no love

[Julian H. Stacey]

Matthew Seaman wrote:
 ... an installer as
  a
 CLI program that reads in a fairly simple fixed script or language to do 
 the
 installation work, and have separate Curses and/or X based programs to al
 low
 users to create the installation script interactively.  

I admit being seduced at times by graphical interfaces, but 
bland blue screens hide a lot of action  info CLI allows.

I was told blind people need CLI, cos Braille output devices do one
line of 40 chars, ( expensive; possibly mass production might lower
costs / inrease resolution, but Braille is different for different
languages, discouraging mass production ).


Peer Schaefer peer.schae...@hamburg.de wrote:

 BTW, the Debian installer consists (a) of a modular, frontend agnostic
 backend, and (b) different frontend plugins, e.g. a curses-frontend or
 a X/GTK+-frontend. This is a modular and very elegant approach (but
 surely difficult to implement).

Perhaps the way to go is a common table of target defaults eg
/usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/install.cfg 
Which could then be edited by all of
Front end CLI   (*)
Front end curses GUI(*)
(*) Maybe these 2 alternatives should be 
the first question the installer asks ?
Front end X11 GUI (for later after main install complete 
- Shudder, Not that I'd use it, but someone 
  would probably want to write one).
vi - for editing,  writing back to new boot media,
to auto install on multiple identical new machines.

All of 4.11, 7.1  8.0 man sysinstall contain:
This product is currently at the end of its life cycle and
will eventually be replaced.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: why BSDs got no love

[Julian H. Stacey]

Randi Harper wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 6:50 AM, Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com wrote:
  Peer Schaefer peer.schae...@hamburg.de wrote:
 
  BTW, the Debian installer consists (a) of a modular, frontend agnostic
  backend, and (b) different frontend plugins, e.g. a curses-frontend or
  a X/GTK+-frontend. This is a modular and very elegant approach (but
  surely difficult to implement).
 
  Perhaps the way to go is a common table of target defaults eg
         /usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/install.cfg
  Which could then be edited by all of
         Front end CLI           (*)
         Front end curses GUI    (*)
                 (*)             Maybe these 2 alternatives should be
                                 the first question the installer asks ?
         Front end X11 GUI (for later after main install complete
                                 - Shudder, Not that I'd use it, but someone
                                   would probably want to write one).
         vi - for editing,  writing back to new boot media,
                 to auto install on multiple identical new machines.
 
 
 I would sooner stab myself in the face.

Not obvious at all which your personal revulsion applies to
CLI ? ncurses ? install.cfg ?, X11 ?, vi ?

I was trying to think of a unifying structure that would allow for
variant personal preferences, inc. prefs to avoid some interfaces.
(eg personally I've no use for X11 post install, or 'vi install.cfg`
mass production install,  but there's others it would attract).

  All of 4.11, 7.1  8.0 man sysinstall contain:
         This product is currently at the end of its life cycle and
         will eventually be replaced.
 
 
 Sure, once someone writes something everyone can agree upon. Until
 then, sorry, you're stuck with sysinstall. :)

Yes,  All will never agree, it's schismatic, sort of thing
attractive to PCBSD DesktopBSD or Yet-Another-BSD forks/front ends, 
or about as endless discussion as which brewery brews best beer :-)

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Why no SAP nor DB2 on FreeBSD ?

[Julian H. Stacey]

 Thanks for providing the perspective on the issue.
 
 Here is a rather straight query, how do we grow the userbase ?

IMO enough noise.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: 2008 EuroBSDCon PDF and Audio ?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi,
Reference:
 From: Saifi Khan saifi.k...@datasynergy.org 
 Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 17:35:30 +0530 (IST) 
 Message-id:   alpine.bsf.2.00.0909281729110.99...@freebsd 

Saifi Khan wrote:
 Hi:
 
 Every year the EuroBSDCon has a new host site and the slides and
 audio/video seem to go missing after a while.
 
 i'm trying to locate the stuff in 2009, about the 2008 EuroBSDCon 
 talks page at http://2008.eurobsdcon.org/talks.html
 
 Does anybody know how the various slides and audio/video can be
 retrieved ?
 
 Please excuse me as i am a newbie and was wondering if there is
 a technical reason for not having the slides and media stuff
 consolidated at a single site ?

[I believe I know the answer to that, but] ...  I don't see it does
any good for you to ask  get answers on that question via advocay@,
'cos that's not where those responsible could best be Direct contacted
to improve things.

Please think where you should first direct address your many
questions. Dont dump all to advoc...@freebsd.org.  eg in this case
use the whois command for the domain name @eurobsdcon.org,  First
mail there, or to postmas...@eurobsdcon.org or webmas...@eurobsdcon.org

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi,
 From: Don Wilde dwil...@gmail.com 

Don Wilde wrote:
 http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software

Article contains
The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved.
Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge
to be open forever more, and everything developed after
that was ATT's property.

False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist
was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read
the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless).

The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much
anyway - they signed non disclosures.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: leveraging FOSS, especially FreeBSD

[Julian H. Stacey]

Don Wilde wrote:
 What is incorrect, Julian? 
.. etc.

In 1977 I started learning Unix V6 as a Unix newbie.  There were
no UCB bits I heard of till csh  job control  vi floated in to
my Uni. a few years on, maybe 1980 +/- a year or 2, I'd guess about
82.  Can't remember when I heard of first complete BSD releases for
PDP/VAX but after the individual bits.

man 3 ctime
The functions ctime(), gmtime() and localtime() all take
as an argument a time value representing the time in seconds
since the Epoch (00:00:00 UTC, January 1, 1970; see time(3)).

1970 in context quoted below ? No. 

 On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Julian H. Stacey j...@berklix.com wrote:
  From:         Don Wilde dwil...@gmail.com
  Don Wilde wrote:
  http://www.engineeringjobfuture.com/articles/leverage/open-source-software
  Article contains
         The lawsuit was bitterly contested, but finally resolved.
         Everything developed before 1970 was declared by a judge
         to be open forever more, and everything developed after
         that was ATT's property.
 
  False. I stopped reading at that point, after all, the journalist
  was probably just winging it, after a few emails to people who read
  the activity at the time (inc many of us doubtless).
 
  The people who know Most about the UCB Lite agreement, won't speak much
  anyway - they signed non disclosures.
 
 -- 
 -- Don Wilde
 Engineering the Future 
 http://www.EngineeringJobFuture.com

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: FreeBSD gear (Clothes, machines)

[Julian H. Stacey]

Allen wrote:
 PS; not to sound weird, but does anyone here have any neat hardware 
 configurations? Like a machine running FreeBSD that has like CD/DVD/Tape 
 /Cool hardware you're proud of? Thanks!

http://berklix.com/scanjet/   FreeBSD inside a scanner.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ?

[Julian H. Stacey]

  Most unlikely. Ask Oracle  tell advocacy@ what you find out.
  I'd bet perceived market share  demand as ever, ie Money.
 
 Hi Julian:
 
 Here is the response on the Oracle forum thread to my posting,
 
 
 FreeBSD is a kernel not used in any extant operating system with
 the sole exception being Apple's Mac OSX so you are heading,

...

 Given the response, What is your analysis of the situation ?

Hi Saifi, 
I wrote:
  Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle.
  IE wave money under Oracle's nose  ask to purchase what you want.

I meant contact Oracle Inc _Direct_  ask to purchase licenses for BSD.
Not ask a forum of users including the clueless Oracle user you quoted.

If you only want to buy a few licenses. Oracle probably won't be
interested (unless you convince them you'r a path finder for more
purchasers to come);  ... but on top of Krad's Solaris approach,
if you wanted to try out Oracle, as well as native, you might perhaps
try it on a linux or opensolaris within eg
FreeBSD/branches/-current/ports/emulators/virtualbox/ (if you try
it  get stuck there's an emulat...@freebsd list).

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: why no Oracle on FreeBSD ?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Saifi Khan wrote:
 Hi:
 
 This is a newbie query.
 
 i noticed that there is no Oracle available for FreeBSD
 http://www.oracle.com/technology/software/products/database/index.html
 
 What could be the reason for that ?

Best ask direct of commercial application vendor Oracle.
IE wave money under Oracle's nose  ask to purchase what you want.

If Oracle think there's enough profit in it, there's many BSD
consultants eg http://berklix.com/consultants/ willing to work.

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: Dell Servers I have installed

[Julian H. Stacey]

Szilveszter Adam wrote:
 On Sat, Apr 05, 2008 at 08:52:25PM -0400, james barbone wrote:
  Please indicate the cost or the source for a basic FreeBSD 6.2
  OS on a CD ? Is it possible to clone another mail server with
  this same Disk ? 

6.2 has been declared End Of Line by security officer.
So use 6.3 Release instead.
7.0 exists too, but as you (james) dont know much about FreeBSD, use 6.3
instead for now, until 7.1 come out.

 
 For FreeBSD itself, the software is free, and can be
 downloaded from the Internet. You can also buy it from several sources
 on CD and/or DVD if you prefer that. And yes, you can copy it as many
 times as you wish.
 
 See here for details: http://www.freebsd.org/where.html
 
  We want to use http://www.axigen.com/mail-server/free.php
  Who can help us ?
 
 I have no idea about the exact licensing details for axigen mail sever,
 so you should ask them. Their licensing terms may be very different.
 -- 
 Regards:
 
 Szilveszter ADAM
 Budapest
 Hungary
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Re: National mailinglists - why isn't it there yet?

[Julian H. Stacey]

 hosts mailing lists for a variety of domains and they are willing to
 host Dutch FreeBSD mailing lists as well.
 
 What steps should we take to get the domain delegated to their system?

I 'spose top owner is [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
name space already in place:
I'm tired,  tmp. forgotten Bind details of delegation, but
  nslookup
  set type=ns
  nl.freebsd.org
Authoritative answers can be found from:
ns1.vianetworks.nl  internet address = 212.61.15.8
ns2.vianetworks.nl  internet address = 212.61.25.226
I 'spose ask eg [EMAIL PROTECTED] whats in place

Julian
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Re: National mailinglists - why isn't it there yet?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Ed Schouten wrote:
 
 --WYTEVAkct0FjGQmd
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 Content-Disposition: inline
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
 Hello everyone,
 
 I was just speaking with another dutch FreeBSD user (and developer)
 about FreeBSD mailing lists.
 
 I know so far most of the national FreeBSD user groups have their own
 infrastructure that doesn't use any services from the FreeBSD project
 (for example, the Dutch BSD User Group, D-BUG).
 
 Even though I am convinced the FreeBSD project should remain focused on
 developing its flagship product, the operating system, I think the
 community would have a great advantage if the project would already host
 national mailing lists, which should only be used for questions in the
 rare cases where the person doesn't understand English, but mainly to
 coordinate activities which have a national scope.
 
 These mailing lists could be used to discuss upcoming events and
 conferences, but could also be used for discussions about translations
 of the documentation.
 
 Is there a reason why such mailing lists don't exist yet? If not, what
 kind of procedures should one follow to create a mailing list for a
 certain language?
 
 --=20
  Ed Schouten [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Only country I know of is Germany: In that case there is a DNS
localy delegated namespace sub domain de.freebsd.org,  within that
there were (last I looked) 7 lists run from a majordomo@ (not a
mailman@ http:// interface though they do have a mirror of the
standard http:// stuff ) Each country's localy oriented nationals
can do their own thing within that.

Julian
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Re: National mailinglists - why isn't it there yet?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Edwin Groothuis wrote:
 
 As a mailman-owner hosting about 60 lists, I can tell you that it
 is possible in mailman to set the owner of a list to a person who
 wants to have the list and let them handle the bounces and unknown
 messages.

Ah Yes, sorry, I was forgetting that, all thre lists I run bar 2
are owner=me, but yes majordomo supports per list owners too. 

  What benefit/ trying to centrally administer foreign lists ?
 
 The benefit is that the remote people don't have to invest time and
 money in setting up a mailman infrastructure and going through all
 the learning process of getting everything right.
 
 It's not a you must do it here, it's an you can do it here.

Ah, I see your point.

Julian
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Re: BSDCon Barcelona'08

[Julian H. Stacey]

I started to forward this to a friend who has a BSD friend in Spain,
but your un-necessary base64 comes out nbadly on EXMH.  If you fix
it  repost without base64 it will make it easier for people to
forward.  Base64 will also Not come out right on FreeBSD web mail
archives (so will not be picked up by search engines).


TooMany Secrets wrote:
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 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 MIME-Version: 1.0
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 Content-Disposition: inline
 
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Re: FAQ Interactive, Are Video Games Good? A Non-Gamer's Perspective

[Julian H. Stacey]

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Manuel_Molina_Pascual?= wrote:
 I'm not a gamer today but I was a
 moderate gamer during the late 80's and 90's.

Aargh !
Please move subject from [EMAIL PROTECTED] to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks.

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Re: Current Gentoo user

[Julian H. Stacey]

Chad Perrin wrote:
 On Thu, Dec 13, 2007 at 06:12:55AM -0800, Grant wrote:
  What about skype, wengo, and vmware workstation?  Do they work on FreeBSD?
 I have no idea, I'm afraid.  Hopefully someone else on the list can
 answer that.  I've never used any of the three.

A VOIP (ie Skype) Asterisk developer (Emil Stoyanov. cc'd) who is
FreeBSD ( Linux) based did 2 presentations in Munich this year:

Longer more technical version to Berkeley In Munich group 2007_01_17
http://www.berklix.org/bim/talks/asterisk_overview_2007_01_17/

Shorter less technical overview to Munich Faraday group 20th April 2007
 http://www.berklix.com/free/talk/presentations/export/4_voip+bsd_v_linux_emil/

re. sound
 I still haven't used FreeBSD on a system with a 64b processor

Works on mine, uname  dmesg below:
FreeBSD fire.js.berklix.net 6.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE #0:
 Mon Sep 17 23:01:21 CEST 2007 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 /usr1/src/sys/amd64/compile/FIRE64.small  amd64

CPU: AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3000+ (2010.07-MHz 686-class CPU)
pcm0: VIA VT8237 port 0xe400-0xe4ff irq 22 at device 17.5 on pci0
pcm0: Avance Logic ALC658 AC97 Codec
pcm0: VIA DXS Enabled: DXS 4 / SGD 1 / REC 1
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Re: Events calendar looking bare

[Julian H. Stacey]

 From: Murray Stokely [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 I know there must be more events scheduled in 2008 so far besides just
 AsiaBSDCon and BSDCan.  Are there other events with a FreeBSD presence
 that should be added here?
 
   http://www.freebsd.org/events/

German Unix User Group has its spring conference in Munich, 11-14 March 2008.
http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/ffg2008/
(In German) doesn't yet list talks, but I wouldn't be suprised if some BSD.
I heard at Monday's Sage/Muc talk on CPUs (copy here in German:
http://www.guug.de/lokal/muenchen/index.html
) that GUUG have received about twice as many proposals for talks,
as slots available, but still open for more if submitted quickly.
BTW There's a nice BSD + VOIP +  Penguin logo here:
http://www.guug.de/veranstaltungen/index.html
I'll copy this to Berkeley In Munich 
http://berklix.org/bim/
list, maybe we'll discuss BSD for GUUG ideas at the Dec. 19th BIM meeting.

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Re: [Laptop] Battery Time

[Julian H. Stacey]

 Performance, Stability, and Reliability.  I have also learned (from my 
 laptop) that FreeBSD is also a Green OS, as it causes the hardware to 
 use less power than other systems.

If anyone has right contacts in eg HP/Compaq /or US EPA (Environmental
Protection Agency ?)  other national agencies that compile lists of
preferred hardware for government agency acquisition,   ?

We could use that edge to get some good PR  HP/Compaq might get a
lot of government sales so might be keen to help - if anyone knows
right address so an approach isn't lost in spam.

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Re: What Linux^W distribution would you most like to see supported on a ThinkPad?

[Julian H. Stacey]

 Lenovo is asking this at http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=3D98
 and, yes!, FreeBSD is a proposed choice.
 
 ATM, the first choice is Anyone that refuses to carry binary-only
 drivers, so that all others will also benefit, as it will require
 documented hardware, which is also a very good choice.

I of course like source too,
but this rather destroys the force of that argument:
On FreeBSD-6.2-RELEASE:
man nve
then go use find on /usr/src. it's a BLOB  Linux  MS compat
PS there's source coming in from elsewhere now for 
man nfe
in 7-current  patches for stable  6.2

Summary: binary only doesnt seem to have precluded FreeBSD in case of nve,
though again, yes we all prefer source avail. too :-)

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Re: Google tech talk: How the FreeBSD Project Works

[Julian H. Stacey]

Edwin Groothuis wrote:
 On Tue, Jul 03, 2007 at 08:15:23PM +0100, Robert Watson wrote:
  While at Google a couple of weeks ago, I gave my How the FreeBSD Project 
  Works talk.  The video from that is now online:
  
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4400856579609253323

This is a Problematic Page
Problems accessing with these browsers:
Mozilla consistently crashes when I view this web page.
(hang on transferring, page refresh fails on X page change)
Dillo   I dont see how to start download.
Mosaic  I dont see how to start download.
Amaya   I dont see how to start download.
Chimera Could not load the first document because the document did not 
exist or the URL was incorrect.
Amaya   reports parsing errors (but log empty) (but that an old 
binary based on 6.1 tree, lib problem not impossible)
Kazekahase  First browser I tried that shows frames  enormous
empty frame with 
Click to download a plug in
Which when clicked does nothing.
Finally one's eye finds a small download
button off to right  download starts for
14516e2c0a7543a1.avi.avi.part

  This is the same talk I've given previously at EuroBSDCon, AsiaBSDCon, 
  UKUUG, and LinuxForum in the last six motnhs; it's significantly enhanced 
  from the version that I gave at BSDCan last year (the first time I gave it).
 
 Nice one! I've linked it at
 http://www.mavetju.org/unix/multimedia/freebsd/multimedia.html.

 at http://berklix.org/techtalk/#archives

Would be nice if [EMAIL PROTECTED] maintained a central index

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Re: Re. Anyone know of a pre ready presentation for Alternatives to Microsoft?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Dru wrote:
 On Wed, 16 May 2007, Julian Stacey wrote:
  Ref. My
   Anyone know of a pre- ready presentation for Alternatives To Microsoft ?
  In
   Mon Nov 27 12:05:26 PST 2006
   
  http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2006-November/003003.html
   Wed Dec 20 11:46:12 PST 2006
   
  http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2006-December/003034.html
 
  Five of us gave presentations 20th April 2007:
  http://berklix.com/free/talk/   Alternatives To Microsoft
  Archived to help others also promote free source.
  Presentations are for newcomers/ managers etc, Not technical.
  Please inform other BSD  Linux groups, to help them promote free software.
 
 The two talks I gave at Linuxworld were well received by the managers in 
 the audience. Feel free to scavenge what is useful:
 
 http://www.nycbug.org/files/20070504090509_dru_lavigne_oss_sysadmin.pdf
 http://www.nycbug.org/files/20070504090509_dru_lavigne_oss_desktop_apps.pdf

Nice, just been browsing them, my talk is done now, but
adding pointers from http://berklix.org/techtalk/#archives

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Re: Libre Software Meeting in Amiens, France, 10-14 July

[Julian H. Stacey]

Dag-Erling =?utf-8?Q?Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= wrote:
 Julian H. Stacey [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  American is the industry language.  (eg Korean Mboard BIOSes boot
  with American not English key layouts etc, I'm British, lucky enough
  to read German  French, but remember many can't read French).
 
 You apparently don't read much French, 

A Guess.

 or you'd know what he wrote was a
 direct reply to the OP, accidentally sent to the list...

Your surmise of only intent might be right or not. I preferred to Ask.

  Perhaps you cc's advocacy@ in French by accident ?  If not:

I asked as there's always been special linguistic emphasis in France:

   At 1st tech. session at the EUUG in Paris a quarter century ago, ~1982
   I had considerable sympathy for the non English native speakers
   who also didn't speak French, who argued for the conference to
   be in the English advertised,  not in the French the 1st tech.
   speaker persisted in.
   France since passed laws penalising foreign words in the press,
underwent internal debate on what language to publish scientific
   papers in.  Official language of telecoms is French, but Aviation:
   English, etc. Conference language is a question of particular
   importance in France.

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Re: Lack of FreeBSD coverage in the UK media

[Julian H. Stacey]

Paul Waring wrote:
 Daniel Seuffert wrote:
  But don't forget: It's hard work and you need people doing this work.
  That's the problematic part and that's the main reason imho why we
  don't have more media attention...
 
 Is there not a project (other than this mailing list) within the work of 
 the FreeBSD Foundation to promote BSD within the media? All it needs is 
 for a small group of people to contact existing Linux magazines and see 
 what kinds of articles they are looking for and whether they'd be 
 prepared to accept BSD ones, and then try and find people who are 
 willing to write them.
 
 I've taken a small step in emailing one of the UK magazines and asking 
 them if they'd include BSD groups in their local LUGs listings, it only 
 took a couple of minutes to write the email and the worst they can say 
 is no.
 
 Paul
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A friend of mine:
Mahmut Kursun (Work) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
works for a Linux publisher in Munich (of several mags), he used
to import BSD CDs  knows what it is :-)  he speaks English German
 Turkish, so I suggest send him a copy. (i've cc'd him)

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Re: Lack of FreeBSD coverage in the UK media

[Julian H. Stacey]

Paul Waring wrote:
 I've noticed over the past few years that there has been a growing 
 number of Linux magazines available in the UK (Linux Format, Linux 
 Magazine and Linux User/Developer are the ones that immediately spring 

What one can leverage with magazines depends on local turnover/
size of national business,  if you can amortise costs by publishing
abroad too: 

It's a lot harder to write an article (more work, that fewer can
do), than it is for foreign magazines to find local people
to translate to local language. eg many Germans in computing read
English without problem, so its worth offering any BSD article
anyone writes to non English speaking countries world wide.

Best bet to be paid, might be to go for a USA / world distributed
mag like Dr Dobbs, (that has a hopefully decent turnover to start
with),  sell an article to them  simultaneously give them contacts
to the UK etc book trade to expand their international sales.

Mags want exclusive rights if paying, but if they get article free
( translate to German, Korean or whatever themselves) then you can
dictate terms.

SKIP REST IF NOT INTERESTED IN BRITISH  GERMAN MAGs.

I've been in Munich many years, but British, so fell in to conversation
with a Brit. from Linux Mag. few years back when he was visiting
Systems, a trade fair in Munich:

Germany was Linux mag's cash cow,  Britain was a struggling
low turn over low\profit extension (*), so they often took
German stuff, translated it  tossed in a bit of local UK if
they found it.  They weren't overflowing with money for the UK
op. ( I was asking them if they wanted a BSD CD mastered, 
they said ask German parent co. as more money)

   (*) Still, remember the Beaching effect, the end station only
   _appears_ unprofitable, but if cut, the whole is less healthy,
   so UK probably helped toward commercial health of whole.

   He thought UK was pretty small market as a whole: far
   more MickeySoft addicted than Germany (chimes with what I saw):
   
  In Waterstones Tun Wells, UK: MS everywhere, virtually zilch
  else I recall (but TW has no university or polytechnic, no real
  industry or manufacturing, just inumerable pen pushers, (TW was
  1 of 12 designated zone centres for admin. in event of nuclear
  war, presumably 'cos no industry, ( Unix is since found where
  more technicly sophisticated users are perhaps ?).
   
  In Canterbury (small agricultural town with a cathedral, hence
  called a city, with a University (significant to early UK Unix),
  even in the Uni. bookshop there seemed rather a lot of MS  I
  dont recall BSD, but must have been some Linux.
   
  In Munich Germany, (city of ~2x 10^6 with lots of Universities
   industry etc) although most is MS; Easy to find a variety
  of Linux Mags,  in main computer shopping street, shops
  sell h/ware without OS,  they Have heard of Linux  sometimes
  BSD,  dont assume pirate just 'cos you dont want to buy
  MS with h/ware.
   
... SO unless things have changed in last half decade, UK Linux mags
might not have lots of cash for articles,  Linux mags are hard to find
some places eg TW,  BSD ie exotic beyond belief.

German Mags (apart from Linux mag  Linux User mag):

   FreeX is not exactly a BSD mag. but nearish ... they publish in
   German, They are small  Not flush. Editor Rosa Riebl speaks
   English, they'd likely be interested if you weren't looking for
   [much] money http://www.cul.de +49.911.400030.

   IX mag. by http://www.heise.de (who also publish a great hardware
   mag `CT', but in German  off topic) `IX' mag has occasional
   trials in English,  an English web http://www.heise.de/english/

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Re: Capital Area BSD Users Group meeting

[Julian H. Stacey]

Todd C. Miller wrote:
 The Capital Area BSD Users Group will be having its monthly meeting
 on Tues. February 27th, 6:30pm - 8:30pm at SPARTA in Columbia, MD.
 
 Jason Dixon will be doing a presentation on recommended technologies
 in a modern *BSD-based mailserver.  The proposed setup includes
 Postfix, Cyrus-SASL, SSL/TLS, virtual user accounts, PostfixAdmin,
 OpenBSD spamd, Amavisd-new, SpamAssassin, Razor2, Courier-IMAP, and
 Courier authdaemond. Other technologies such as FuzzyOcrPlugin,
 RoundCube Webmail and server-side filtering with Courier maildrop
 will be touched on as well.
 
 For more information, please see http://capbug.org/

I see the slides from the talk at that site, Thanks :-)

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Re: Seeking a FreeBSD users group in Columbus, Ohio

[Julian H. Stacey]

 I do not know of one, but I figure there are three of us here, and I
 could talk to a few others if we would like to start one.
 The question would be:
 Columbus Ohio,
 Central Ohio,
 Ohio
 or try to attach with several: midwest?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
List to use to monitor  announce to re new groups.

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Re: Vision impaired software on FreeBSD?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Mr. Jim Vaglia wrote:
 What assistive technology if any will run on FreeBSD? Is this
 what Mac and Voice Over is based on? Many blind people are mostlikely
 not interested in paying high cost of Windows Vista. Thanks for
 spreading the word among the public if all people with physical
 disabilities and impairments are able to use FreeBSD? Totally, blind
 from birth, totally in the *dark* on this OS. LOL

One problem: (last I knew), FreeBSD only has a graphical installer,
not Ascii text mode. So you might need somoene else to install it
for you.  

(That's of course doing a standard install off the cdrom or floppy
 net; if you happen to be a Unix expert there are ways of installing
using command line only, eg
   installing a spare disk on a PC, installing software, moving
   disk to new PC: all of that could be done in single line mode
   commands, possibly with one of those Ascii to braille
   40 char.  adapters a friend told me of 2 decades back, so might
   be possible but tricky.

Last I heard NetBSD still offers a line mode installer http://www.netbsd.org
NetBSD has less ported packages than FreeBSD but otherwise is
similar.  (well, more similar than eg Linux or Microsoft :-)

Apart from what Salvatore Albanese just mentioned, (hope you got it, not cc'd)

... It's also possible freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org might have
heard of other hardware.  Then again, as NetBSD is more hardware
oriented, those people may have heard of more controllable devices.

PS for anyone wondering, No, I'm no troll for NetBSD, nearly all
my many machines are FreeBSD, but NetBSD does have some advantages
in some places.

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Re: Anyone know of a pre ready presentation for Alternatives to Microsoft?

[Julian H. Stacey]

Continuance from thread starting:
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2006-November/003003.html

Jan Husar wrote:
 Hello Julian,
 
 I can take a look of something which i used in past but is mostly
 alternatives on workstation level for public administration (cos I'm
 solving such issues in European Commisssion)
 
 the use of open standards such as ODF and PDF/A which is the *MOST*
 discussed issue within the European Union.
 
 Workstation use of Linux and Server running BSD, explanation of why
 apache foundation was and is so sucessfull and so on..
 
 Hopefully I have it with me, if not You must wait until I come back
 home to Slovakia and check my workstation at home.
 
 Jan
 
 ps: anyway, it's better to prepare something yourself and you can use
 mine as inspiration (or copy/paste even:)

Thanks Jan,
Did you find stuff I can work from ? URLs or per mail welcome.  Open
Doc Format of interest, as are other open office standards  tools.  
I can web host anything approriate / permitted under copyright

My presentation is now scheduled for Fri 6 Apr 2007,
I plan to prepare in this order:
- Appeal for raw material to work from, eg here  
  I've contacted http://www.allbsd.de/src/Flyer/FreeBSD/PDF/ to see
  if they want to do a leaflet I could hand out at talk.  (Don't
  want to duplicate work 
  Most of this has probably been done before by Linux people but
  I'm not sure whee to look, could spend longer browsing  searching
  than writing my own ?
- Familiarise/acquire hardware tools 
- I have a stick mouse JVC Handy Mouse HC-MM55U 
- May buy a Wireless Media Presenter 
(posting soon about them on [EMAIL PROTECTED])
- Projector
Determine resolution on projector supplied.
Decide font size (not too small for back of room)
Test with my X config on laptop at end of a previous session
- Dummy `slide' preparation 
Probably on /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint ?
Perhaps do a framing macro.
- Try KDE system (not needed till now, I'm an old hand at Unix :-)
 confer with Ernst cc'd who knows more ports/ for users than me.
- Write presentation, including bits from above, + also from eg
http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/freebsd/#escape
http://berklix.com/free/
http://www.allbsd.de
- `Dress rehearsal ;-) to avoid demo effect.
- Give presentation.  publish on web after.

Anything I've missed ? Any resources (URLs) people can point me at ?

(I 'spose as we'll have 2 BSD laptops there, if we bought/borrowed
a webcam, we could record it, might interest some who can't travel
( teach me what Not to do again ;-) )

 
 On 11/27/06, Julian Stacey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Anyone know of a pre- ready presentation for Alternatives To Microsoft ?
 
  I've been asked to give a presentation (in English) to a bunch of
  engineers in Munich end of Jan 2007.  On the basis A good engineer
  is a lazy engineer,  I'm asking before I write my own.
 
  I am _Not_ inviting a long thread, to rehash old well worn opinions
  of PD src/ etc.  It'd bore me silly to read, let alone respond ;-)
   be very inefficient  achieve nothing useful to me.  I have decades
  of experience as an engineer  with Unix/BSD  have a BSD group
  here to back me up with ideas  criticism verbally  localy, faster,
  more efficient than typing etc :-)
 
  What I don't have, but seek is a set of beamer slides I could
  leverage from to save me time. (BTW I could equally leverage from
  German or perhaps French slides if existant). I could also leverage
  from a linux based slide set prob faster than starting from scratch,
  or at least for inspiration.
 
  Anyone know of a similar presention pre-exisiting, Re. Unix that I
  could leverage from ( give credit to) ?  Of course if I have to
  write my own, I'll make mine public on web for others to leverage
  from).
 
  I'll probably use a beamer with /usr/ports/misc/magicpoint unless
  advised better ? (I dont fancy open office bloat to show
  .pps,  dont particularly want to learn how to prepare .pps slides,
  (though I'll probably show a few .pss) from a different topic to show that
  power point presentations are also showable under BSD.
 
  I've bcc'd this to Berkeley In Munich http://berklix.org/bim/ where
  Ernst has volunteered to help me,  others welcome too, but prob.
  best focus short discussion searching for URLs for now via list
  freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org, Then later, nearer date doubtless
  some local mail to BIM's list.
 
  URLs to presentations welcome. Thanks
 
  Julian
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  Mail Ascii, not HTML.   Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
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 -- 
 

Re: CDROM-Artwork

[Julian H. Stacey]

Oliver Fromme wrote:
 Deb Goodkin wrote:
   [...]
   2. In the description on the back of the DVD case and CD sleeve, only 
   use the r in circle for the first use of the FreeBSD mark. You can 
   probably do the same with Unix.
 
 No, that will be insufficient.  It is required to add an
 attribution, according to The Open Group which is the owner
 of the UNIX trademark.  Note that it has to be spelled
 UNIX (all upper case); any other spellings (Unix,
 unix, UN*X etc) are considered an infringment of the
 trademark, except in private communications.
 
 I know a company who once had legal trouble with The Open
 Group because of incorrect usage of the UNIX trademark on
 their web pages.  So this should be taken serious.
 
 The Open Group has a detailed explanation of the usage
 guidelines for their trademarks (including UNIX) here:
 
 http://www.opengroup.org/registration/tmug.pdf
 
 There's also a quick and simple overview here:
 
 http://www.opengroup.org/trademarks.htm
 
 Best regards
Oliver

To confirm upper case:
  Bell Systems Technical Journal July-Aug 1978 Vol 57, No 6, Part
  2, Page 1899 has it all capitals.  All through the book, the .rof
  macro generating the automatic footer does it as caps.  Bell sold
  Unix through a tedious chain of companies to whoever owns it this week.
Whether trademark  the code copyright were always sold in strict
tandem I never bothered to track. There were also the leaked Lyons
V6 books  things such as the SUID patent that moved asynchronously
from Bell straight to public domain. Heaven protect us from `rights'
nightmares, especially software patents nightmares of the future !

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Re: Win4BSD Pro Desktop Released

[Julian H. Stacey]

Dan Perlman wrote:
 Dear FreeBSD Community,
 
 Thank you all  for the warm reception we received during our beta period.
 
 We're now pleased to announce that Win4BSD Pro Desktop has now been released
 and is available for download and purchase.  Win4BSD Pro Desktop allows

I suggest you get yourself listed under
  http://www.freebsd.org/commercial/software_bycat.html

win4bsd in search box shows you already listed elsewhere like `media/news').

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Re: KDE marketing survey

[Julian H. Stacey]

Henrik Nordin wrote:
 --===1880881416==
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
 Content-Disposition: inline
 
 IEhlbGxvLAoKClRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBmcm9tIHRoZSBLREUgcHJvbW90aW9uYWwgY29tbXVu

Unquotable binary deleted, I'm not sure this isn't a spoof, but if
not a spoof, try sending text eg Ascii next time.

 dmVyaWdlIFN1ZWTDqSBTd2VkZW4KVGVsOiAwNDAtNjAyMzk2NgpNb2I6IDA3MDgtNjY1NjY5Cg==
 --===1880881416==
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
 MIME-Version: 1.0
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
 Content-Disposition: inline

FreeBSD has its KDE people, archives  subscription here:
http://freebsd.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-freebsd

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Re: BSD booth

[Julian H. Stacey]

 It would also be if someone in Bulgaria could translate the
 stuff at http://www.allbsd.de/src/Flyer/FreeBSD/PDF/ (Please
 note that we currently work hard to improve those flyers and add
 10 more, work is progressing fast).

There's English  German versions of a BSD leaflet at
http://berklix.org/bim/leaflet/
I'll add a link to  http://www.allbsd.de/src/Flyer/FreeBSD/PDF/

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Re: Michigan User Group

[Julian H. Stacey]

Perhaps better repost to list freebsd-user-groups@ not advocacy@
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-user-groups

Michael W. Lucas wrote:
 
 Will's dad provided a place for us to meet regularly, and when Will
 left we lost that place.  The key to a successful user group is to
 have a place to meet consistently...

I started a BSD user group in Munich with the opposite view: A
previous BSD user group here had died a boring death partly because
IMO it kept meeting in the same boring small local bar.  The Munich
group http://berklix.org/bim/ we later created has been meeting in
a different restaurant every month for years now, (Indian, Greek,
Persian, Bavarian, Italian etc)  we're still doing that.

A few in Munich then wanted to meet in the same place every
month,  they splintered of.

We (BIM) decide where we're going by nominating  voting on our mail list,
hence people get to see who else is up for it this month etc.
To see how we do it
http://berklix.org/bim/stammtisch/
If you need a mail list to co-ord it, I can give you one if no one nearer will.

 But, if someone wants to take point on getting a place in east or
 central SeMI, I'd show up.  That makes two of us.  :-)
 
 On Thu, Sep 29, 2005 at 11:49:45AM -0400, Frank Laszlo wrote:
  Is anyone living in the metro detroit area and willing to revive 
  SeMiBUG, or start a new? I read some -advocacy archives and it seems 
  there hasnt been much talk about this since 2000. Formerly Will Andrews 
  and Michael Lucas ran the show. since then, Will went on to attend 
  purdue university, and is now living in colorado. I have not spoke with 
  Michael in a while (May 2002) regarding this. At this point I am just 
  probing for interest, and we can figure out the details after. Thanks
  
  -- 
  __
  Frank Laszlo
  System Administrator
  The VonOstin Group
  Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  WWW:http://www.vonostingroup.com
  Mobile: 248-863-7584
 
 -- 
 Michael W. Lucas  [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://www.BlackHelicopters.org/~mwlucas/
 
 The cloak of anonymity protects me from the nuisance of caring. -Non 
 Sequitur
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Re: Draft FreeBSD-6 release announcement or magazine article.

[Julian H. Stacey]

Scott Long wrote:
 Julian H. Stacey wrote:
  Release Engineers,
  + Various CCs
  Is there a draft FreeBSD-6 release announcement please, 
  to base a 2 page magazine article on ?  I only know of:
 http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2005-August/018061.html
 --  http://www.freebsd.org/releases/6.0R/todo.html#required etc, 
 6.0-BETA3 /usr/src/UPDATING with eg
  FreeBSD 6.x has many debugging features turned on etc

  A German magazine, FreeX (ed. Rosa Riebl cc'd) asked Ernst Winter (cc'd)
  for someone who could write a 2 page article on features new to FreeBSD 6.
  Anyone been assembling similar material for other countries/ languages ?
  No point duplicating effort.
  
  Once we have raw material, there are native German speaking BSD users
  on national  Berkeley In Munich http://berklix.org/bim/ mail lists.
 
 We don't usually write the release announcements until right before the
 release.  I'd be happy to provide material for someone writing an 
 article, though.
 
 Scott

Thanks Scott.
PS for readers of list advocacy@
Reason you didnt see my original post (which Scott luckily
quoted in full) was a temporary addressing problem my end).
Rosa,
2 possibilities:
- Recruit an English writer from list on header here,
  based on English text  translate. or ..
- Recruit a German writer, (My written German grammar is too horrible), 
  eg from Lists:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   subscribe via [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   subscribe via [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm a member of bim@  could relay to bim@ if you want.
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Re: BSDLive: FreeBSD Mini CD

[Julian H. Stacey]

 http://www.offmyserver.com/bsdlive

Nice idea, Thanks Matt. Downloading now.
Could you put an MD5 on that page too please ?

I'll have to see what mini blanks cost in the shops,  then keep a
couple in wallet to give away periodically)

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Re: LWCE

[Julian H. Stacey]

Johnson David wrote:
 Will there be any official or semi-official FreeBSD presence at next months'
 LinuxWorld expo? If so, I would like to volunteer to help man a booth.
 
 David Johnson

If some others wants a list where exhibitors co-ordinate for BSD events
in mainland / central Europe,  mainly in German  English language,
(but people on it might also know of other geographically adjacent lists).:
  BSD-EVENTS maillist  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Send administrative requests (subscription, vacation, ...) to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
  To get help send a mail with the subject 'help' to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Use send-pr. Use chat@.

[Julian H. Stacey]

 Hi Julian,
Hi Carsten
 
 I wouldn't agree. When you consider the sheer amount of unresolved PRs, I
 have a problem with adding another one to that list.

Yes, worrying, but a seperate problem.
I suggested send-pr also for the Method: 

  Regular cross posters of hot air on advocacy@ seem probably half
  incompetent.  It'll take them time to learn to create better
  sources,  use diff -c  send-pr, during which they'll post less
  crap,  after they'll be more educated with less need to post
  noise as their only `Contribution'.

 All the more when I don't know that my PR is backed by a greater
 part of the community.  Only the fact that I can handle send-pr and
 I find me somebody with commit-rights doesn't make my contribution worthy.

Commiters decide what is worthy. Convince a committer,  job
done. Commiters have a structure of answerability to colleagues.

 Instead, I would
 encourage people to ask whether there is support for their issue. Of
 course, this doesn't apply to obvious bugs.

Yes, not good if we got a flood of noise via send-pr for cvs/www:
Better for those who like to talk web to susbscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Content of advocacy@ will remain mostly a cesspit until the over
opinionated  under skilled learn Not to excrete here without payment.
Pay Here:   man send-pr ; send-pr
http://www.freebsd.org/support.html#gnats

 On the other hand, I wish
 people would realize sooner when a topic has been enough talked about.

Yes.

-
Julian StaceyNet  Sys Eng Consultant, Munich   http://berklix.com
Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam).  Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
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Re: Romanian BitDefender for FreeBSD Mail Servers line

[Julian H. Stacey]

 As a side note, BitDefender is a Romanian brand/product. It is
 developed by Softwin. The link in the main page of FreeBSD.org points
 to another site that announces the product, instead of the Romanian
 company's site..

Daniel,
  Do not cross post. Your
To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org
  breaches cross post rule in

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL
  Rule breaking (or claim of ignorance) will discourage others letting
  you change FreeBSD pages.

All, inc Daniel,
advocacy@ list is not a web designers chat room.
Regular hot air here from various people about web page design is Tedious.
  - advocacy@ is the Wrong Address to change content of www.freebsd.org
  - Use send-pr to submit web page corrections (for a commit to cvs/www).
  - www@ exists - use it !
Ref http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-www
A mailing list that allows you to send mail to the
Webmasters, the managers of FreeBSD Project web servers
(not web servers that hosted on FreeBSD computers).
  - webmaster@ is an RFC standard address, consider that too.
-
Julian StaceyNet  Sys Eng Consultant, Munich   http://berklix.com
Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam).  Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
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Re: Want a logo competition? Do it properly.

[Julian H. Stacey]

Fafa Hafiz Krantz wrote:
 Message-id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Desist breaching FreeBSD list charter else you will be reported for blocking.

  
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/eresources.html#ERESOURCES-MAIL
  No posting should be made to more than 2 mailing lists, 
and only to 2 when...
-
Julian StaceyNet  Sys Eng Consultant, Munich   http://berklix.com
Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam).  Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
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Re: Fund Raiser

[Julian H. Stacey]

Aaron Siegel wrote:
 Hello
 
 According to netcraft there are 2.5 million webservers are running FreeBSD, 
 http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2004/06/07/nearly_25_million_active_sites_running_freebsd.html
 If each one of these sites gave a dollar each year that could fund a lot 

Before this list degenerates ito compete noise  no signal again
(eg Spelberg's a conservative encourages  Atkielski floggy of
the dead horse called Satire etc) ...

I suggest before everyone chews the fat on this latest `bright idea',
 flies off at wild tangents, as seems likely,
That we hold off long enough for [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
contact the FreeBSD Foundation privately,  then report back to list:
A) if they even particularly need any money at present,
B) if they think aj@'s ideas are something they'd be prepared to
   work with
If the foundation happen to say no to either, it'll save us all a
load more debate. ( if yes, then OK, I suppose debate  implement etc)

-
Julian StaceyNet  Sys Eng Consultant, Munich   http://berklix.com
Mail in Ascii (Html=Spam).  Ihr Rauch = mein allergischer Kopfschmerz.
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