Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Michael Clark wrote: I configure the two devices that way (CD-ROM as slave, hard drive as master), sysinstall refuses to mount the CD, giving me an error about CD/DVD drive not found!. It's worth noting that no other OS I've run on this same PC ever had any trouble finding the CD-ROM drive when it was configured as the slave. Strange. That you got that problems. I've been always using a CDROM on slave. Never had a problem there. Did you look if the BIOS was able to autodetect the cdrom on boot? Do you use cable select on one of them? To get around _that_ problem, I had to configure the CD-ROM as the master and the hard drive as the slave. With the CD-ROM as the master, sysinstall is able to actually detect the CD/DVD drive, but then I run into this nonsense with fdisk refusing to detect or accept the correct disk geometry for the hard drive. It's worth noting that I've never had to manually specify hard drive geometry settings in the installer for any other OS I've installed on this PC. They figured it out automatically and worked fine. Another time: Just turn on LBA. So far, I'm really disappointed by FreeBSD. If FreeBSD lacks the logic or detection to automatically figure all these things out and just work, that is a serious bug (whether due to a programmer mistake or poor software design). I've _never_ had this much trouble getting an operating system installed on this particular PC. It's due to poor hardware design in history. If I can't get things working within about 1 more hour of tinkering, I'm going to abandon FreeBSD entirely, put my machine back together, and just use the drive as an extra NTFS filesystem for my personal files under Windows XP. That explains, why you don't want to switch from auto to LBA. Sometimes auto is the right thing, but most times you have to think of the right setting, because auto is just a default. (Example: If I leave all values set to auto in my bios, my system is going to creep literally, because some components wont interact correct) When people argue that Windows is easier, and that *nix isn't ready for the desktop, this is *exactly* the kind of problem that they are talking about. I hope any actual FreeBSD developers on these aliases wake up and take notice. The real problem is that we still work around design flaws which exist in hardware for a decade. Everybody uses his/her personal best workaround and sometimes they are in conflict. Hendrik ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
I wrote the message to which you replied, not Michael Clark. See my comments in-line. From: Hendrik Hasenbein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: 'Keith Kelly' [EMAIL PROTECTED], Derrick Ryalls [EMAIL PROTECTED], freebsd-bugs [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'freebsd-questions ORG' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 09:57:18 +0100 Michael Clark wrote: I configure the two devices that way (CD-ROM as slave, hard drive as master), sysinstall refuses to mount the CD, giving me an error about CD/DVD drive not found!. It's worth noting that no other OS I've run on this same PC ever had any trouble finding the CD-ROM drive when it was configured as the slave. Strange. That you got that problems. I've been always using a CDROM on slave. Never had a problem there. Did you look if the BIOS was able to autodetect the cdrom on boot? Do you use cable select on one of them? Of course the BIOS auto-detected the CD-ROM fine -- the configuration had always worked with all other operating systems and software I had used on this PC. It didn't matter whether I used cable select or explicitly jumpered the devices as master/slave. In either case, if the CD-ROM was the slave, sysinstall failed to detect the CD-ROM. To get around _that_ problem, I had to configure the CD-ROM as the master and the hard drive as the slave. With the CD-ROM as the master, sysinstall is able to actually detect the CD/DVD drive, but then I run into this nonsense with fdisk refusing to detect or accept the correct disk geometry for the hard drive. It's worth noting that I've never had to manually specify hard drive geometry settings in the installer for any other OS I've installed on this PC. They figured it out automatically and worked fine. Another time: Just turn on LBA. LBA is already on on all my devices, and has been from the start. This is most definitely NOT the problem. Besides which, I already explained my findings on another thread on these aliases.. So far, I'm really disappointed by FreeBSD. If FreeBSD lacks the logic or detection to automatically figure all these things out and just work, that is a serious bug (whether due to a programmer mistake or poor software design). I've _never_ had this much trouble getting an operating system installed on this particular PC. It's due to poor hardware design in history. It's equally due to poor software design. If Windows and Linux can deal with the hardware fine, then FreeBSD should be able to also. If I can't get things working within about 1 more hour of tinkering, I'm going to abandon FreeBSD entirely, put my machine back together, and just use the drive as an extra NTFS filesystem for my personal files under Windows XP. That explains, why you don't want to switch from auto to LBA. Sometimes auto is the right thing, but most times you have to think of the right setting, because auto is just a default. (Example: If I leave all values set to auto in my bios, my system is going to creep literally, because some components wont interact correct) When people argue that Windows is easier, and that *nix isn't ready for the desktop, this is *exactly* the kind of problem that they are talking about. I hope any actual FreeBSD developers on these aliases wake up and take notice. The real problem is that we still work around design flaws which exist in hardware for a decade. Everybody uses his/her personal best workaround and sometimes they are in conflict. No, the real problem is a lack of thorough testing on a variety of hardware configurations, and a lack of developer interest in solving problems encountered by people other than themselves. Hendrik _ Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Keith Kelly wrote: On Jan 22, 2004, at 5:24 PM, Keith Kelly wrote: I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. Sufficiently old motherboards and BIOS versions don't understand the LBA addressing mode used by modern drives, and are limited to seeing approx 8.4 GB using the classic C/H/S values. See whether the BIOS lets you configure the drive to LBA mode rather than automatic, C/H/S, or extended C/H/S mode. If it doesn't, check to see whether there is a BIOS update available for your hardware. The motherboard is not old. It is an MSI KT4 Ultra motherboard, if I remember the model number correctly off the top of my head, for the Athlon XP architecture. The BIOS doesn't even explicitly list what mode (LBA, CHS, extended CHS) it is using to address the drive -- I just set it to Auto, it detects the device name, and fills out a small listing telling me the C/H/S geometry it is using. The motherboard is already running the latest available BIOS update from MSI. From: Christopher Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have two 40Gig Seagate Baracuda IV's. The physical drive is 1023/256/63 The BIOS detects it at 1024/255/63 I have an 80G Seagate (ST380024A) attached to an old MB (pentium socket 7(?)) with an AMI BIOS. Seagate specify the logical geometry (for Barracuda ATA V drives) as 16383/16/63. This is also what the BIOS auto-detects the drive as. (Note this corresponds to only 8G.) I used this as the BIOS setting to install FreeBSD. However, FreeBSD (4.8) wouldn't boot from the drive until I dropped the BIOS heads setting down (to 16383/15/63). FreeBSD happily ignored this setting change which was done after FreeBSD had been installed. I had assumed that this was a bug in the BIOS. I wonder now whether there is some quirk in FreeBSD's boot managers/loaders that is affected by BIOS settings (perhaps with specific BIOSes)? The AMI BIOS has LBA, Block mode and 32-bit mode settings enabled. To further add to the curiosity, fdisk reports the drive as 9729/255/63 (which is 5103 sectors short of the drive's full capacity). dmesg.boot, however, shows: ad0: 76319MB ST380024A [155061/16/63] at ata0-master WDMA2 which corresponds to the drive's full capacity. Wayne ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Keith Kelly wrote: OK, but if the auto mode uses the wrong C/H/S translation, this default may be the source of your problem. What happens when you switch from using auto to explicitly using LBA? I don't know. I've never had to change away from Auto to get any other OS to install or boot from any of my hard drives, though, so I really doubt that is the problem. I'm quite confident the problem must lie with FreeBSD itself, in the form of a bug or a lack of hardware support. Although my integrated IDE controller and all other basic hardware is on the FreeBSD supported hardware list. No, the problem doesn't lie with FreeBSD. The problem is in the long line of kept compatibilities since the first Intel-PC. There is no need for an addressing mode besides LBA if you are using current hardware (And this current being a long time). The problem first came when the hard drives hit the first CHS barrier: The manufacturing companies chose different formulas to converted the real CHS to the BIOS CHS values. So until the get used to a common formula or the Linear Block Adressing you couldnt even swap harddrives from one system to another of another IDE board manufacturer. SCSI got more luck on this platform since most manufactures used the adaptec formula and NCR had its own, but could detect if an adaptec formula was used. Back to your systems problem. The BIOS assumes you a different alignment on the harddrive than the system. ONLY if you choose ONE addressing mode you get predictable results and that should be LBA, since it is used in modern ATA-commands. Other addressing modes should only be used for older drives which cant use LBA. I hope there will be a time when the CHS conversions get dropped from BIOS, but I doubt that. Choosing one mode enforces the correct conversion on each system. I definitely do not have hardware issues, because Linux, Windows XP, Windows 2000, BeOS, and SkyOS have all worked fine at various points, and Windows XP continues to work fine :-) Lucky you. Haven't been so lucky, but LBA solved it. Hendrik ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:24:19 -0800 Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] probably wrote: Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply. I should have given more technical details. I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. The hard drive is IDE, not SCSI. It is a Maxtor UltraMax 40GB ATA/100 drive purchased shy of two years ago. The physical geometry reported by Maxtor in the specs for the drive is different from the geometry my BIOS reports that it has auto-detected and is using to address the drive. And both of *those* geometries are different from the one that fdisk keeps trying to assume. From the web page, I learnt the 3 geometries you have. $ bc -l -q 155061*16*63*512 80026361856 9729*255*63*512 80023749120 38309*16*255*512 80025968640 So which of them is not 80G (modulo the ``rounding error'', which is, as you can see, negative, I mean, neither BIOS nor FreeBSD think the drive to be larger than it is according to its specs, so it cann't cause real trouble)? After reading your further posts, I realized it wasn't *your* geometry :). Could you please post `all of them', like in the webpage? No, don't tell me the difference between them makes it impossible to boot from the drive. The mbr is at the beginning of the drive, not at the end:) I own just the same model drive (this means the same as in the webpage), and I never had a geometry problem with any FreeBSD version I tried (4.4, 4.7, 4.8, 5.2-RC2). FWIW, here is my fdisk output. $ fdisk /dev/ad2 *** Working on device /dev/ad2 *** parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=9729 heads=255 sectors/track=63 (16065 blks/cyl) Figures below won't work with BIOS for partitions not in cyl 1 parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=9729 heads=255 sectors/track=63 (16065 blks/cyl) BTW, you could try fiddling with the `packet' option of boot0, but that would take a fixit floppy/CD. # boot0cfg -o packet /dev/whatever might help you (it enables the bootloader to use LBA packet mode). I've already read all the FAQs, handbooks, and support sites I could find regarding FreeBSD and disk geometry. None of them have contained any information specific to IDE drives (they all seem SCSI-centric), and none of them have clearly explained all the background context about how drive geometries work. In short - they (geometries) don't. Physical geometry doesn't exist. Only the number of sectors (should be marked `LBA addressable', or something like that,on the drive) matters on modern drives. Satisfied? P.S. Now, who cc'd it to bugs@:)? -- DoubleF This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. If this had been an actual emergency, do you really think we'd stick around to tell you? pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
I don't know. I've never had to change away from Auto to get any other OS to install or boot from any of my hard drives, though, so I really doubt that is the problem. I'm quite confident the problem must lie with FreeBSD itself, in the form of a bug or a lack of hardware support. Although my integrated IDE controller and all other basic hardware is on the FreeBSD supported hardware list. Not the best solution, but have you thought of using the Gag boot loader to get around this? (sourceforge) [ ... ] I definitely do not have hardware issues, because Linux, Windows XP, Windows 2000, BeOS, and SkyOS have all worked fine at various points, and Windows XP continues to work fine :-) Your error message reflects a BIOS-level failure to find a bootable partition. Do you already have a bootable partition on the system, and are trying to install FreeBSD in a second partition? If so, which partition is marked active? No. The hard drive is the only hard drive attached (I detached my two other drives with WinXP and data files on them, so they couldn't get inadvertently hosed during installation... those two devices were on the primary IDE chain. I moved the blank hard drive and the CD-ROM drive, which were on the secondary IDE chain, onto the primary IDE chain to try to get FreeBSD installed that way. There's currently nothing on the secondary IDE chain). And, I did ensure in all my attempts that I marked the single full-disk slice I created with fdisk as bootable. My thought here is to double check that the drive is in the master position on the ribbon. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
My thought here is to double check that the drive is in the master position on the ribbon. Yeah, you would _think_ that would be the way to configure things. But when I configure the two devices that way (CD-ROM as slave, hard drive as master), sysinstall refuses to mount the CD, giving me an error about CD/DVD drive not found!. It's worth noting that no other OS I've run on this same PC ever had any trouble finding the CD-ROM drive when it was configured as the slave. To get around _that_ problem, I had to configure the CD-ROM as the master and the hard drive as the slave. With the CD-ROM as the master, sysinstall is able to actually detect the CD/DVD drive, but then I run into this nonsense with fdisk refusing to detect or accept the correct disk geometry for the hard drive. It's worth noting that I've never had to manually specify hard drive geometry settings in the installer for any other OS I've installed on this PC. They figured it out automatically and worked fine. If I just let fdisk use its suggested defaults for the geometry and proceed with the install, then when the system reboots off the hard drive I get Missing operating system. It's worth noting that I've never seen that severe of an error following any other OS installation claiming it was successful. So far, I'm really disappointed by FreeBSD. If FreeBSD lacks the logic or detection to automatically figure all these things out and just work, that is a serious bug (whether due to a programmer mistake or poor software design). I've _never_ had this much trouble getting an operating system installed on this particular PC. If I can't get things working within about 1 more hour of tinkering, I'm going to abandon FreeBSD entirely, put my machine back together, and just use the drive as an extra NTFS filesystem for my personal files under Windows XP. When people argue that Windows is easier, and that *nix isn't ready for the desktop, this is *exactly* the kind of problem that they are talking about. I hope any actual FreeBSD developers on these aliases wake up and take notice. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
don't complain. Your not committing... -Original Message- From: Keith Kelly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:49 PM To: Derrick Ryalls Cc: freebsd-bugs; 'freebsd-questions ORG' Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS My thought here is to double check that the drive is in the master position on the ribbon. Yeah, you would _think_ that would be the way to configure things. But when I configure the two devices that way (CD-ROM as slave, hard drive as master), sysinstall refuses to mount the CD, giving me an error about CD/DVD drive not found!. It's worth noting that no other OS I've run on this same PC ever had any trouble finding the CD-ROM drive when it was configured as the slave. To get around _that_ problem, I had to configure the CD-ROM as the master and the hard drive as the slave. With the CD-ROM as the master, sysinstall is able to actually detect the CD/DVD drive, but then I run into this nonsense with fdisk refusing to detect or accept the correct disk geometry for the hard drive. It's worth noting that I've never had to manually specify hard drive geometry settings in the installer for any other OS I've installed on this PC. They figured it out automatically and worked fine. If I just let fdisk use its suggested defaults for the geometry and proceed with the install, then when the system reboots off the hard drive I get Missing operating system. It's worth noting that I've never seen that severe of an error following any other OS installation claiming it was successful. So far, I'm really disappointed by FreeBSD. If FreeBSD lacks the logic or detection to automatically figure all these things out and just work, that is a serious bug (whether due to a programmer mistake or poor software design). I've _never_ had this much trouble getting an operating system installed on this particular PC. If I can't get things working within about 1 more hour of tinkering, I'm going to abandon FreeBSD entirely, put my machine back together, and just use the drive as an extra NTFS filesystem for my personal files under Windows XP. When people argue that Windows is easier, and that *nix isn't ready for the desktop, this is *exactly* the kind of problem that they are talking about. I hope any actual FreeBSD developers on these aliases wake up and take notice. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] CONFIDENTIALITY NOTE: This electronic transmission, including all attachments, is directed in confidence solely to the person(s) to whom it is addressed, or an authorized recipient, and may not otherwise be distributed, copied or disclosed. The contents of the transmission may also be subject to intellectual property rights and all such rights are expressly claimed and are not waived. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by return electronic transmission and then immediately delete this transmission, including all attachments, without copying, distributing or disclosing same. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Please see this page: http://lantech.geekvenue.net/chucktips/jason/chuck/1044789670/index_html This is exactly the problem I am having now whenever I try to install either FreeBSD 4.9 or 5.1. Clearly, a lot of other users out there are having this problem too. FDisk absolutely refuses to accept the correct geometry values (the ones my BIOS tells me it is using to address the disk), instead insisting on using some values that are not even close to correct. Then after installation completes and I try to boot, I get a missing operating system message, which is no surprise given that the disk was addressed by the installer using the wrong geometry settings. Why the hell doesn't FDisk properly read the geometry settings from the BIOS in the first place (so that don't have to look them up and enter them myself during install), and why the hell doesn't it accept the correct values when I enter them? Isn't there *ANY* way to force it to accept the values I give it? I have a hard time imagining how this could be considered low priority or not important by the developers of the system. This is clearly a major defect in either documentation (if this is user error, a LOT of users are having the problem, so documentation must be deficient), or a major defect in the code. DISCLAIMER: I don't know if you folks are like the Linux community, but don't tell me to find the bug and fix it yourself, or to quit whining. It's perfectly reasonable for a user of a piece of software to expect it to work right. I'm not a developer, and shouldn't have to be. That's why *other* people are developers, so that I don't have to be. - Keith F. Kelly ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply. I should have given more technical details. I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. The hard drive is IDE, not SCSI. It is a Maxtor UltraMax 40GB ATA/100 drive purchased shy of two years ago. The physical geometry reported by Maxtor in the specs for the drive is different from the geometry my BIOS reports that it has auto-detected and is using to address the drive. And both of *those* geometries are different from the one that fdisk keeps trying to assume. I've already read all the FAQs, handbooks, and support sites I could find regarding FreeBSD and disk geometry. None of them have contained any information specific to IDE drives (they all seem SCSI-centric), and none of them have clearly explained all the background context about how drive geometries work. I guess there is a physical geometry provided by the drive manufacturer, and then different geometries (all of which may be valid) your BIOS might use to address the drive depending on the mode it is using (LBA, etc). As far as I can tell, the geometry values a user is supposed to feed to fdisk are the values that the BIOS reports that it is using to address the drive, but I'm not even sure if that is correct because the documentation is so impenetrable. And of course many users are running into this issue where the drive geometries reported and used by their BIOS are simply rejected by fdisk as invalid whenever they try to enter them into fdisk, which makes no sense to me. - Original Message - From: Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS Please see this page: http://lantech.geekvenue.net/chucktips/jason/chuck/1044789670/index_html This is exactly the problem I am having now whenever I try to install either FreeBSD 4.9 or 5.1. Clearly, a lot of other users out there are having this problem too. FDisk absolutely refuses to accept the correct geometry values (the ones my BIOS tells me it is using to address the disk), instead insisting on using some values that are not even close to correct. Then after installation completes and I try to boot, I get a missing operating system message, which is no surprise given that the disk was addressed by the installer using the wrong geometry settings. Of about 100 to 110 FreeBSD systems we have up and going, I have never had the fdisk reported geometry match the BIOS reported information but I have never had a system fail to install and boot by just ignoring the whole issue and letting it (sysinstall, fdisk, etc) do its own thing as long as I didn't try to tinker with the geometry. This has been with both SCSI and IDE disks, but mostly SCSI and almost entirely on mainstream hardware such as what comes with Dell, Compaq, etc, not homebuilts. The FreeBSD versions have been most of 3.xx through most of 4.xx. I haven't tried any 5.xx yet but the person in the box (cubicle) next to me has 5.1 going and sees the same thing. There have been lots of things written about this. I don't know which ones apply in your case. But, the geometries on recent disks and recent versions of software (recent = in the last 6 or 7 years) are all virtual as far as I can see.So, just try letting it fly and without trying to tinker or reconcile what appears to be a conflict. jerry ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:24:19 -0800 Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply. I should have given more technical details. I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. Hi Keith, Just to be sure - did you elect to install BootMgr (or a regular boot record) on the drive when sysinstall asks? -Chris ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
On Jan 22, 2004, at 5:24 PM, Keith Kelly wrote: I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. Sufficiently old motherboards and BIOS versions don't understand the LBA addressing mode used by modern drives, and are limited to seeing approx 8.4 GB using the classic C/H/S values. See whether the BIOS lets you configure the drive to LBA mode rather than automatic, C/H/S, or extended C/H/S mode. If it doesn't, check to see whether there is a BIOS update available for your hardware. It may be the case that this doesn't resolve the issue. You can try to create a small (say 32MB) DOS partition using classic MS-DOS 6.x or a utility from the drive manufacturer, and verify whether you can boot into that. If you can't and still get the missing OS error, you've got hardware issues and should consider replacing your MB. If you can boot to a DOS partition on the hard disk, then try installing FreeBSD to the remaining space, leaving the DOS partition intact. This will give you a better shot of using a geometry that your BIOS is able to boot. [ The only hardware I've seen which required that kind of thing was a no-name P133 grade machine... ] -- -Chuck ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Yes, I tried it both ways (installing BootMgr, and installing a standard MBR). - Original Message - From: Chris Pressey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:24:19 -0800 Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply. I should have given more technical details. I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. Hi Keith, Just to be sure - did you elect to install BootMgr (or a regular boot record) on the drive when sysinstall asks? -Chris ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
See comments in-line. - Original Message - From: Charles Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:56 PM Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS On Jan 22, 2004, at 5:24 PM, Keith Kelly wrote: I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. Sufficiently old motherboards and BIOS versions don't understand the LBA addressing mode used by modern drives, and are limited to seeing approx 8.4 GB using the classic C/H/S values. See whether the BIOS lets you configure the drive to LBA mode rather than automatic, C/H/S, or extended C/H/S mode. If it doesn't, check to see whether there is a BIOS update available for your hardware. The motherboard is not old. It is an MSI KT4 Ultra motherboard, if I remember the model number correctly off the top of my head, for the Athlon XP architecture. The BIOS doesn't even explicitly list what mode (LBA, CHS, extended CHS) it is using to address the drive -- I just set it to Auto, it detects the device name, and fills out a small listing telling me the C/H/S geometry it is using. The motherboard is already running the latest available BIOS update from MSI. It may be the case that this doesn't resolve the issue. You can try to create a small (say 32MB) DOS partition using classic MS-DOS 6.x or a utility from the drive manufacturer, and verify whether you can boot into that. If you can't and still get the missing OS error, you've got hardware issues and should consider replacing your MB. I definitely do not have hardware issues, because Linux, Windows XP, Windows 2000, BeOS, and SkyOS have all worked fine at various points, and Windows XP continues to work fine :-) If you can boot to a DOS partition on the hard disk, then try installing FreeBSD to the remaining space, leaving the DOS partition intact. This will give you a better shot of using a geometry that your BIOS is able to boot. [ The only hardware I've seen which required that kind of thing was a no-name P133 grade machine... ] -- -Chuck ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply. I should have given more technical details. I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. The hard drive is IDE, not SCSI. It is a Maxtor UltraMax 40GB ATA/100 drive purchased shy of two years ago. The physical geometry reported by Maxtor in the specs for the drive is different from the geometry my BIOS reports that it has auto-detected and is using to address the drive. And both of *those* geometries are different from the one that fdisk keeps trying to assume. I've already read all the FAQs, handbooks, and support sites I could find regarding FreeBSD and disk geometry. None of them have contained any information specific to IDE drives (they all seem SCSI-centric), and none of them have clearly explained all the background context about how drive geometries work. I guess there is a physical geometry provided by the drive manufacturer, and then different geometries (all of which may be valid) your BIOS might use to address the drive depending on the mode it is using (LBA, etc). As far as I can tell, the geometry values a user is supposed to feed to fdisk are the values that the BIOS reports that it is using to address the drive, but I'm not even sure if that is correct because the documentation is so impenetrable. And of course many users are running into this issue where the drive geometries reported and used by their BIOS are simply rejected by fdisk as invalid whenever they try to enter them into fdisk, which makes no sense to me. I will definitely agree with one thing at least: I wish all this were much better documented. There are lots of pieces of documentation in various places - some up-to-date, and some obsolete and some sort of in between. It is very hard to sort out the differences. I think a lot of the problem is historical but as things have been cleaned up over the years the documentation did not keep up and not everything was overhauled along the way, just tweaked as needed. Plus, part of the problem is no-one out there who has written documentation understands the entire thing from front to back, just the parts they have worked on. I could be wrong on this, but it really looks like that. I really wish one of these geniuses would do a complete documentation of disk layout and mapping to whatever and flag bytes and boot blocks and MBRs and... This disk geometry thing is not unique to FreeBSD. The confusion exists in all OSen that make use of PCs and PC BIOSs even in MS though they try to keep that covered up. Anyway, I think you will get the missing OS message if you have not correctly installed some sort of boot block on the device. If you are single booting, you can make one big slice and then you don't need to have the MBR, just a standard boot block. If you are dual booting you have to have BOTH an MBR and then in the bootable slice, a boot block. Also, the system expects root to be in the bootable slice and to be partition 'a' in the bootable slice. (I understand you can do heroics and fudge that, but don't bother trying) The machine I am typing on right now has an IDE disk (even though most of ours have SCSI) and the Physical geometry does not match what fdisk says. It is dual booted with WinXP (actually 3-booted if you consider the vendor maintenance slice). It installs, boots and runs just fine. I don't think that the system would even be able to complete a write to the disk at slicing, partitioning and installing time if the geometry was not working out. It is just too basic to everything the install does.I think you need to look for the problem some other place, such as MBRs or partitions or something. Hopefully someone out there can offer some more useful suggestions. jerry - Original Message - From: Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:44 PM Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS Please see this page: http://lantech.geekvenue.net/chucktips/jason/chuck/1044789670/index_html This is exactly the problem I am having now whenever I try to install either FreeBSD 4.9 or 5.1. Clearly, a lot of other users out there are having this problem too. FDisk absolutely refuses to accept the correct geometry values (the ones my BIOS tells me it is using to address the disk), instead insisting on using some values that are not even close to correct. Then after installation completes and I try to boot, I get a missing operating system message, which is no surprise given that the disk was addressed by the installer using
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
On Jan 22, 2004, at 6:04 PM, Keith Kelly wrote: The motherboard is not old. It is an MSI KT4 Ultra motherboard, if I remember the model number correctly off the top of my head, for the Athlon XP architecture. The BIOS doesn't even explicitly list what mode (LBA, CHS, extended CHS) it is using to address the drive -- I just set it to Auto, it detects the device name, and fills out a small listing telling me the C/H/S geometry it is using. The motherboard is already running the latest available BIOS update from MSI. OK, but if the auto mode uses the wrong C/H/S translation, this default may be the source of your problem. What happens when you switch from using auto to explicitly using LBA? [ ... ] I definitely do not have hardware issues, because Linux, Windows XP, Windows 2000, BeOS, and SkyOS have all worked fine at various points, and Windows XP continues to work fine :-) Your error message reflects a BIOS-level failure to find a bootable partition. Do you already have a bootable partition on the system, and are trying to install FreeBSD in a second partition? If so, which partition is marked active? -- -Chuck ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Yes, I tried it both ways (installing BootMgr, and installing a standard MBR). I just thought of one more awful thing which has happened to me on a number of occasions, way embarrassingly too many times. You don't happen to have a floppy disk in the floppy drive or possibly a non-bootable CD in the CD drive do you. That is where I see that message most often. If you tried to install using the two floppies, for example and didn't pull the second one out before rebooting, it would do that. The same would be true if you put one of the other CDs in the set to load some things. I'm still guessing something to do with the MBRs and boot blocks and whatever you called the 'a' partition in the slice, etc though. jerry - Original Message - From: Chris Pressey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:24:19 -0800 Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply. I should have given more technical details. I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. Hi Keith, Just to be sure - did you elect to install BootMgr (or a regular boot record) on the drive when sysinstall asks? -Chris ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-bugs To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
No -- no floppy in the floppy drive, and no CD in the CD-ROM drive. Only disk devices attached are the one hard drive, the CD-ROM, and the floppy, and in the BIOS boot sequence, only the one hard drive is set as the boot device. I *did* mark the slice I created using fdisk during FreeBSD install as bootable, and I *did* have the installer write (I've tried it both ways) either a standard MBR or install the BootMgr to the hard drive. There are no other partitions or OSes or anything on the hard drive, but it was previously running WinXP and that booted fine. And just for kicks, I was still able to boot off a DOS floppy, format the hard drive as a system device and put a minimal DOS install on it, and boot fine off the hard drive into DOS. - Original Message - From: Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Chris Pressey [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 3:35 PM Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS Yes, I tried it both ways (installing BootMgr, and installing a standard MBR). I just thought of one more awful thing which has happened to me on a number of occasions, way embarrassingly too many times. You don't happen to have a floppy disk in the floppy drive or possibly a non-bootable CD in the CD drive do you. That is where I see that message most often. If you tried to install using the two floppies, for example and didn't pull the second one out before rebooting, it would do that. The same would be true if you put one of the other CDs in the set to load some things. I'm still guessing something to do with the MBRs and boot blocks and whatever you called the 'a' partition in the slice, etc though. jerry - Original Message - From: Chris Pressey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 14:24:19 -0800 Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your thoughtful and helpful reply. I should have given more technical details. I already tried (with both 4.9 and 5.1) letting the FreeBSD install proceed with fdisk's geometry value assumptions, and what I always get is a non-bootable hard drive that gives the Missing operating system error at boot. Hi Keith, Just to be sure - did you elect to install BootMgr (or a regular boot record) on the drive when sysinstall asks? -Chris ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-bugs To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS
Inline. - Original Message - From: Charles Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Keith Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions ORG [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 3:27 PM Subject: Re: FDisk won't detect or accept correct disk geometry from BIOS On Jan 22, 2004, at 6:04 PM, Keith Kelly wrote: The motherboard is not old. It is an MSI KT4 Ultra motherboard, if I remember the model number correctly off the top of my head, for the Athlon XP architecture. The BIOS doesn't even explicitly list what mode (LBA, CHS, extended CHS) it is using to address the drive -- I just set it to Auto, it detects the device name, and fills out a small listing telling me the C/H/S geometry it is using. The motherboard is already running the latest available BIOS update from MSI. OK, but if the auto mode uses the wrong C/H/S translation, this default may be the source of your problem. What happens when you switch from using auto to explicitly using LBA? I don't know. I've never had to change away from Auto to get any other OS to install or boot from any of my hard drives, though, so I really doubt that is the problem. I'm quite confident the problem must lie with FreeBSD itself, in the form of a bug or a lack of hardware support. Although my integrated IDE controller and all other basic hardware is on the FreeBSD supported hardware list. [ ... ] I definitely do not have hardware issues, because Linux, Windows XP, Windows 2000, BeOS, and SkyOS have all worked fine at various points, and Windows XP continues to work fine :-) Your error message reflects a BIOS-level failure to find a bootable partition. Do you already have a bootable partition on the system, and are trying to install FreeBSD in a second partition? If so, which partition is marked active? No. The hard drive is the only hard drive attached (I detached my two other drives with WinXP and data files on them, so they couldn't get inadvertently hosed during installation... those two devices were on the primary IDE chain. I moved the blank hard drive and the CD-ROM drive, which were on the secondary IDE chain, onto the primary IDE chain to try to get FreeBSD installed that way. There's currently nothing on the secondary IDE chain). And, I did ensure in all my attempts that I marked the single full-disk slice I created with fdisk as bootable. -- -Chuck ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
