Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 05:56:59PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. Same here... a lot of times. My last experience with a dying port on a switch was a few days ago while JumpStart-ing Solaris via OBP. The process hung everywhere from RARP, BOOTP, TFTP and NFS... until we figured out the port on the switch was slowly dying. Funny thing was that this problem was masked by TCP's error correction mechanisms for quite some time and became only critical with UDP: the TCP connections were slow as hell, but since the machine wasn't used for high throughput anyway, the local junior admin assumed it was some kind of software/hardware error on the host. She saw the many input errors (Ierrs) in netstat -i, but didn't know what to do about them. ;-) So yes, switches rarely stop altogether, the ports usually degrade, one by one. Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, 09 Jun 2011 17:37:14 -0700 Chuck Swiger cswi...@mac.com articulated: On Jun 9, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: In many cases, it's not even obvious which of the products I find are suitable for building various types of network switches. Do you know of any Webpages that might help me rectify my dearth of understanding in this area? You can get an unmanaged 24-port 10/100/1000 switch for less than $10 per port, and a good managed switch for about $30 per port. A cheap quad-port GB NIC runs $200 or $50 per port; and one from Intel or Cisco which can actually run all of the ports near rated line speed is closer to $100 per port. You simply can't build a commodity PC using these and end up anywhere near the price point of a dedicated switch. Or, as it is commonly stated, You get what you pay for. -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Fri, 10 Jun 2011, Jerry wrote: On Thu, 09 Jun 2011 17:37:14 -0700 Chuck Swiger cswi...@mac.com articulated: On Jun 9, 2011, at 3:28 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: In many cases, it's not even obvious which of the products I find are suitable for building various types of network switches. Do you know of any Webpages that might help me rectify my dearth of understanding in this area? You can get an unmanaged 24-port 10/100/1000 switch for less than $10 per port, and a good managed switch for about $30 per port. A cheap quad-port GB NIC runs $200 or $50 per port; and one from Intel or Cisco which can actually run all of the ports near rated line speed is closer to $100 per port. You simply can't build a commodity PC using these and end up anywhere near the price point of a dedicated switch. I wouldn't think the OP was interested in saving money, there are other reasons for building your own switch. For example, there is a famous article Tricks you can do if your firewall is also a bridge: http://www.usenix.org/events/neta99/full_papers/limoncelli/limoncelli_html/ Dan Feenberg ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 08:34:06AM -0400, Daniel Feenberg wrote: I wouldn't think the OP was interested in saving money, there are other reasons for building your own switch. For example, there is a famous article Tricks you can do if your firewall is also a bridge: http://www.usenix.org/events/neta99/full_papers/limoncelli/limoncelli_html/ I'll read that. Sounds interesting. To be perfectly clear, the reason I'm looking into this is that I tend to like to understand how things work, and to know how to build things I need (most of the reason I got into programming in the first place). Toward that end, I've decided to look into how one would build a switch, and discovered that -- for the most part -- it seems one *wouldn't* build a switch, so I decided to ask here since the subject of switches came up. Obviously, a switch needs some kind of software running on it; it seems reasonable to me that FreeBSD should be able to serve as the necessary software, if only I can figure out how to build a switch from commodity parts without completely breaking the bank. In addition to that, it would be kinda nice to have a switch whose internals I understand so that port-by-port failure of a switch will not occur as a mysterious process I don't quite grasp, as so often occurs with dedicated switches. The fact any switches built after the turn of the century seem to start dying within three years seems like a big problem (I have one 10/100 Linksys switch from before the turn of the century that still works great), after all. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpccg5FzmqT6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 08:10:05AM +0200, C. P. Ghost wrote: Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 08:10:05 +0200 From: C. P. Ghost cpgh...@cordula.ws Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 05:56:59PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. Same here... a lot of times. My last experience with a dying port on a switch was a few days ago while JumpStart-ing Solaris via OBP. The process hung everywhere from RARP, BOOTP, TFTP and NFS... until we figured out the port on the switch was slowly dying. Funny thing was that this problem was masked by TCP's error correction mechanisms for quite some time and became only critical with UDP: the TCP connections were slow as hell, but since the machine wasn't used for high throughput anyway, the local junior admin assumed it was some kind of software/hardware error on the host. She saw the many input errors (Ierrs) in netstat -i, but didn't know what to do about them. ;-) So yes, switches rarely stop altogether, the ports usually degrade, one by one. Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ I was fighting a very long left un-upgraded 7.3 on my server one day; and the next morning, nothing worked! But finally, after pulling out my one remaining hair, I figured it out. And now I know enough to have a spare switch nearby. Like Al Plant mentioned, up-queue. I just cron'd portupgrade to run more frequently [with pkgdb following]. Etc. Been doing this for a long time but there are always new things to learn. -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On 09/06/2011 02:56, Gary Kline wrote: Well, people, It's been a long, long century. I've been down for 5 days. Couldn't understand _why_ I couldn't ping anywhere [expect the Server itself]. Finally, tho, it became more and more likely that my FreeBSD was fine ... even tho I kept stripping the most likely problem points. My large 16-port LinkSys router was either *it* or it was some kind of bug unknown to geekdom. After a friend bought me a new (and tiny) 8-port switch, yes! I could ping everywhere. I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. After wandering in the wilderness for 5 days,mmph, dunno. gary PS: yes, this is a serious question. 1) I like things-Cisco, and LinkSys. I just bought this switch about 2.5 years ago, so I really am looking for feedback. PPS: Another question to ask about upgrading is next. I had a lot of faulty switch, either going all out by themselves or doing stranger things. The most common thing is of course the defective port - One port will start spurting errors and eventually die, with little to no impact on the rest of the ports. (easy to detect : ping on one port vs ping on an other port) Another common error is the I want full duplex error. The switch will announce itself as full duplex before falling back to half duplex immediately. Most of the time the port will act fine, but under heavy load you will have a nice panel of network error happening one after the other. (Also easy to detect : force connected elements to half duplex for test, if everything starts working again you got your problem) Of course there is also the problem with not so anti-loopback switches - that cause packets to go round and round and round and round. (ping will be very inconsistent in its timing, going from a few ms to entire seconds) On pure level 2 switches I had few other problems - though two took me days to figure out : 1 - Faulty power source : The switch could simply not bear full load anymore. Various errors, packet corruption, DHCP errors, misrouting and so on. When tested port by port, functions by functions the switch would work wonders. I spent an entire week testing every boxes for virus/trojan/rootkits/DHCP rogue servers. The problem was only solved after I changed every element of the network one by one. Final diagnostic made by Netgear 2 - Memory corruption (suspected, not validated) : Everything would work fine from 9 A.M to 3 to 4 P.M for an entire branch, then the network would slow to a crawl. Rebooting the switches would solve the problem for a while and then it would be nightmare again after less than an hour. Some boxes would complain about duplicate IP addresses. We managed to find that most of the defective IP addresses converged to just one switch - from there we theorized that there was a problem with the ARP cache of the switch that would make it explode after a sufficient number of updates (since there was a lot of VPN connection made after 3PM, we imagined that it was the triggering factor). We took of the switch and replaced it, but no light came from the manufacturer to either confirm or infirm our theories. Jerome ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
From: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 8:56:59 PM Subject: Long Day's Journey into Bleep Well, people, It's been a long, long century. I've been down for 5 days. Couldn't understand _why_ I couldn't ping anywhere [expect the Server itself]. Finally, tho, it became more and more likely that my FreeBSD was fine ... even tho I kept stripping the most likely problem points. My large 16-port LinkSys router was either *it* or it was some kind of bug unknown to geekdom. After a friend bought me a new (and tiny) 8-port switch, yes! I could ping everywhere. I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. After wandering in the wilderness for 5 days, mmph, dunno. gary PS: yes, this is a serious question. 1) I like things-Cisco, and LinkSys. I just bought this switch about 2.5 years ago, so I really am looking for feedback. PPS: Another question to ask about upgrading is next. -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Good to hear you're back on line. But to answer your question about parts going bad. I haven't had much go bad on me in the last 10 years but back in the 1990's when I was doing pure IT work and was making lots of purchases of parts I did. Now you have to remember that back then a 28.8 modem cost $375 and cell phones were only in the hands of the very rich and very important. I could buy parts and sometimes find them defective out of the box. Others would work fine. Today, I haven't bought many new components because everything is working. My switch has been operating fine for the last five years. I replaced my FreeBSD sever a few years ago. It was a P166 with 96MB RAM and it had been running almost non-stop, 24/7 for 12 years. But then I had another machine right next to it that I built in 2002 and it whimped out only a couple of years later and I hardly ever ran that machine. In today's world, I would say that the majority of the parts you buy will be good to go, but that's why parts only come with a 90 or 1 year warranty. The manufacturers know when to back off their guarantees on electronic components. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
Not a switch but I have had a router and two PCs just die in the last year. I know the agony of having to restore things that weren't broken as I went through that with the router. I hate to have to fix things that I broke trying to find out what was broke, as bad as having to rewrite code after you have a working system and your drive fails without a backup. This to shall pass. Charlie On 9 Jun 2011 at 3:45, Bill Tillman wrote: From: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 8:56:59 PM Subject: Long Day's Journey into Bleep Well, people, It's been a long, long century. I've been down for 5 days. Couldn't understand _why_ I couldn't ping anywhere [expect the Server itself]. Finally, tho, it became more and more likely that my FreeBSD was fine ... even tho I kept stripping the most likely problem points. My large 16-port LinkSys router was either *it* or it was some kind of bug unknown to geekdom. After a friend bought me a new (and tiny) 8-port switch, yes! I could ping everywhere. I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. After wandering in the wilderness for 5 days, mmph, dunno. gary PS: yes, this is a serious question. 1) I like things-Cisco, and LinkSys. I just bought this switch about 2.5 years ago, so I really am looking for feedback. PPS: Another question to ask about upgrading is next. -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Good to hear you're back on line. But to answer your question about parts going bad. I haven't had much go bad on me in the last 10 years but back in the 1990's when I was doing pure IT work and was making lots of purchases of parts I did. Now you have to remember that back then a 28.8 modem cost $375 and cell phones were only in the hands of the very rich and very important. I could buy parts and sometimes find them defective out of the box. Others would work fine. Today, I haven't bought many new components because everything is working. My switch has been operating fine for the last five years. I replaced my FreeBSD sever a few years ago. It was a P166 with 96MB RAM and it had been running almost non-stop, 24/7 for 12 years. But then I had another machine right next to it that I built in 2002 and it whimped out only a couple of years later and I hardly ever ran that machine. In today's world, I would say that the majority of the parts you buy will be good to go, but that's why parts only come with a 90 or 1 year warranty. The manufacturers know when to back off their guarantees on electronic components. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org __ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
$hit happens! Even with PERFECTLY clean power, things fail. Could take a week or 10 years. That's why enterprise nets have redundant everything - and there are still outages ;) - Original Message - From: Gary Kline [mailto:kl...@thought.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 07:56 PM To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Long Day's Journey into Bleep Well, people, It's been a long, long century. I've been down for 5 days. Couldn't understand _why_ I couldn't ping anywhere [expect the Server itself]. Finally, tho, it became more and more likely that my FreeBSD was fine ... even tho I kept stripping the most likely problem points. My large 16-port LinkSys router was either *it* or it was some kind of bug unknown to geekdom. After a friend bought me a new (and tiny) 8-port switch, yes! I could ping everywhere. I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. After wandering in the wilderness for 5 days, mmph, dunno. gary PS: yes, this is a serious question. 1) I like things-Cisco, and LinkSys. I just bought this switch about 2.5 years ago, so I really am looking for feedback. PPS: Another question to ask about upgrading is next. -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org font size=1 div style='border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in' /div This email is intended to be reviewed by only the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, disclosure or copying of this email and its attachments, if any, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. /font ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On 6/8/11 5:56 PM, Gary Kline wrote: Well, people, It's been a long, long century. I've been down for 5 days. Couldn't understand _why_ I couldn't ping anywhere [expect the Server itself]. Finally, tho, it became more and more likely that my FreeBSD was fine ... even tho I kept stripping the most likely problem points. My large 16-port LinkSys router was either *it* or it was some kind of bug unknown to geekdom. After a friend bought me a new (and tiny) 8-port switch, yes! I could ping everywhere. I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. After wandering in the wilderness for 5 days, mmph, dunno. gary PS: yes, this is a serious question. 1) I like things-Cisco, and LinkSys. I just bought this switch about 2.5 years ago, so I really am looking for feedback. PPS: Another question to ask about upgrading is next. Gary, I have had to replace my linksys 8 port switch twice in the past 10 years I have been maintaining my own domain. In fact, when I have a lost network connection error, after verifying that it's not the computer, not the Wireless AP, then I look at this box. Most of the time a simple power cycle restores functionality. Yes it's more or less solid state, but it is busy 24/7 between my kids surfing, my job, my wife's research, the dvr updating, the iTouch's downloading apps, my smart phone receiving email, etc. Sometimes it just fails... And sometimes it just keeps chugging on, my Cisco 800 DSL modem is as old and aside from the initial setup and arguging with the DSL provider, it has been working for the same 10 years, no failures, just the occasional dslam drop that requires a reboot and I'm back online. Patrick ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
whats this have to do with freebsd questions? You seem to have a bad habit of spamming the mailing list with mundane BS. On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 9:09 AM, Gary Gatten ggat...@waddell.com wrote: $hit happens! Even with PERFECTLY clean power, things fail. Could take a week or 10 years. That's why enterprise nets have redundant everything - and there are still outages ;) - Original Message - From: Gary Kline [mailto:kl...@thought.org] Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 07:56 PM To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Long Day's Journey into Bleep Well, people, It's been a long, long century. I've been down for 5 days. Couldn't understand _why_ I couldn't ping anywhere [expect the Server itself]. Finally, tho, it became more and more likely that my FreeBSD was fine ... even tho I kept stripping the most likely problem points. My large 16-port LinkSys router was either *it* or it was some kind of bug unknown to geekdom. After a friend bought me a new (and tiny) 8-port switch, yes! I could ping everywhere. I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. After wandering in the wilderness for 5 days, mmph, dunno. gary PS: yes, this is a serious question. 1) I like things-Cisco, and LinkSys. I just bought this switch about 2.5 years ago, so I really am looking for feedback. PPS: Another question to ask about upgrading is next. -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org font size=1 div style='border:none;border-bottom:double windowtext 2.25pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in' /div This email is intended to be reviewed by only the intended recipient and may contain information that is privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, use, dissemination, disclosure or copying of this email and its attachments, if any, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. /font ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
Quoth Chad Perrin on Wednesday, 08 June 2011: On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 05:56:59PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] I have, twice. Both times it was a Linksys switch, too. Just suddenly, no network. After the second one, I decided to switch (har) to a Netgear GS116. Haven't had any trouble with it so far (knocks on head), but I've only had it about a year. -- .O. | Sterling (Chip) Camden | http://camdensoftware.com ..O | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | http://chipsquips.com OOO | 2048R/D6DBAF91 | http://chipstips.com pgplKs26g8x9u.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
Quoth Chad Perrin on Wednesday, 08 June 2011: Sure. But I've had luck++ with LinkSys for years, even before Cisco bought them out. --My new switch is an LG. See what happens. ... . In my (limited) experience, Linksys actually got more annoying after Cisco bought out the company. Ditto that. -- .O. | Sterling (Chip) Camden | http://camdensoftware.com ..O | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | http://chipsquips.com OOO | 2048R/D6DBAF91 | http://chipstips.com pgptUIfAKPA7G.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. I've had a Linksys switch crap out. I've also had a Netgear switch die. In fact, there were three Netgear switches that died within a few months of each other. At first they would simply lock up at random. After that they didn't work at all. We later discovered it was a capacitor problem. (Google 'capacitor plague'.) We replaced it with a HP ProCurve switch a few years ago and it has been rock solid ever since. My only complaint is the proCurve has a very inaccurate internal clock, but that is easily remedied by configuring ntpd on it. So yeah, even solid state stuff can die! -Modulok- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 11:34:30PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 23:34:30 -0600 From: Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 10:21:13PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 12:18:52AM -0400, Jon Radel wrote: On 6/8/11 11:53 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. Ditto. Most recently a Cisco switch had a rather useful port go into a really weird state that didn't really look broken but bits just...weren'tflowing. Took a while, and a lot of poking at the server in question, before we looked at each other and said, Wait, we've been assuming the switch works, what if it isn't. Hm. WEll, I suppose stranger things have happened. If Chad has had his switch drop connections one-by-one---well, news to me! I figured, hey, solid- state will work forever and 20 years, whichever comes first. ... I've had it happen with no fewer than three switches. I've also seen an enterprise class Netgear switch issue a death scream of some sort over the network at the moment the fiber optic cable was removed from it, crashing the BigIron switch that ran the data center. . . . but Cisco switches are overpriced crap. We were disconnecting the Netgear to replace it with a Cisco that offered a lot more functionality, and administration turned out to be a fucking nightmare with that thing. It's like replacing Postfix with MS Exchange because you want integrated calendaring and all the other crap in the BusinessWeek full-page ad, then finding out that you basically need a full-time employee just to manage that one server. LOL, man. But then, your troubles were at work, right? I mean somewhere that has dozens or more people, users/computers going thru the switch [?] Years ago I had as many a 6 computers--including my daughter's ancient W2K on a Kayak and wife's work laptop and my several tower and laptops going thru the 16-porter. *Still*, I don't care, the daamn thing should have lasted longer than it did. The LG is tiny and probably cutting-edge. And I'm down to two computers. Server, desktop, and firewall. 5250DN printer. So 4 things. ASAP, I will replace the computer that runs pfSense with a tiny kit that sips 4w. So doing my best to green up things. BTW, Gary, Linksys=Cisco is pretty much just a marketing thing and not a technology thing. Sure. But I've had luck++ with LinkSys for years, even before Cisco bought them out. --My new switch is an LG. See what happens. ... . In my (limited) experience, Linksys actually got more annoying after Cisco bought out the company. [?] I ferget what all i bought that was Lonksys--prior to the buyout--but they were all fairly cheap and reliable. Maybe Cicso had some of the engineers do 70-hour weeks. Sure wouldn't be the first company. anyhow, at least next time I won't spent 5 days in the rough. gary -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 11:33:04AM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 11:34:30PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: . . . but Cisco switches are overpriced crap. We were disconnecting the Netgear to replace it with a Cisco that offered a lot more functionality, and administration turned out to be a fucking nightmare with that thing. It's like replacing Postfix with MS Exchange because you want integrated calendaring and all the other crap in the BusinessWeek full-page ad, then finding out that you basically need a full-time employee just to manage that one server. LOL, man. But then, your troubles were at work, right? I mean somewhere that has dozens or more people, users/computers going thru the switch [?] Years ago I had as many a 6 computers--including my daughter's ancient W2K on a Kayak and wife's work laptop and my several tower and laptops going thru the 16-porter. *Still*, I don't care, the daamn thing should have lasted longer than it did. Actually, that was when I was the first and only paid employee of the Wikimedia Foundation. Everybody else was Jimmy Wales, his assistant at Bomis, and volunteers who worked with us remotely -- plus the whole Internet using Wikipedia. So, yeah . . . dozens of people sending traffic through the switch is a gross understatement. The switches I mentioned that I've had die off one port at a time, though, were not at the Wikimedia Foundation. They were my personal kit for my home networks over the years and, in one case, the main switch at a small consultancy where I was the Unix guru. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgp0cIB5wRAVo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 10:05:19AM -0700, Chip Camden wrote: Quoth Chad Perrin on Wednesday, 08 June 2011: I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. I have, twice. Both times it was a Linksys switch, too. Just suddenly, no network. After the second one, I decided to switch (har) to a Netgear GS116. Haven't had any trouble with it so far (knocks on head), but I've only had it about a year. I've been a little leery of Netgear switches after that little episode at the colocation facility where the BigIron switch was taken down by the Netgear's freak-out while unplugging the fiber optic line, but in truth I don't have enough experience with Netgear to know whether that was just some kind of bizarre one-time deal or a problem with Netgear. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpscZX63qMEV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 10:05:19AM -0700, Chip Camden wrote: Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 10:05:19 -0700 From: Chip Camden sterl...@camdensoftware.com Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Quoth Chad Perrin on Wednesday, 08 June 2011: On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 05:56:59PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] I have, twice. Both times it was a Linksys switch, too. Just suddenly, no network. After the second one, I decided to switch (har) to a Netgear GS116. Haven't had any trouble with it so far (knocks on head), but I've only had it about a year. Hm, yours and Theo's notes qualify for my danger, will-robinson file:_) I've generally had good luck with hardware. Maybe it's just sheer luck. Then again, it could be simple shit-for-brains bad circuit design. --At least, with all these stories coming out of the woodwork i don't feel that bad. ...Well, I *do* in that I tore my server pretty much apart. Even tho bind9 was working 100% i figured it wasn't, blah*3. thankee. gary -- .O. | Sterling (Chip) Camden | http://camdensoftware.com ..O | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | http://chipsquips.com OOO | 2048R/D6DBAF91 | http://chipstips.com -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 12:08:12PM -0600, Modulok wrote: Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:08:12 -0600 From: Modulok modu...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. I've had a Linksys switch crap out. I've also had a Netgear switch die. In fact, there were three Netgear switches that died within a few months of each other. At first they would simply lock up at random. After that they didn't work at all. We later discovered it was a capacitor problem. (Google 'capacitor plague'.) We replaced it with a HP ProCurve switch a few years ago and it has been rock solid ever since. My only complaint is the proCurve has a very inaccurate internal clock, but that is easily remedied by configuring ntpd on it. So yeah, even solid state stuff can die! -Modulok- Don't we have a bad-hardware page somewhere? If not, Linksys, Netgear, and ProCurve switches should all be flagged. The new .LT. $20 LG 8-porter [[8-holer? for those from a farming bg, ;)]] um, sorry. I will keep track of how well my LG 8-port switch does. If it fmesses up sooner than three years, I will let folks know. gary ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 12:41:01PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:41:01 -0600 From: Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Mail-Followup-To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 10:05:19AM -0700, Chip Camden wrote: Quoth Chad Perrin on Wednesday, 08 June 2011: I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. I have, twice. Both times it was a Linksys switch, too. Just suddenly, no network. After the second one, I decided to switch (har) to a Netgear GS116. Haven't had any trouble with it so far (knocks on head), but I've only had it about a year. I've been a little leery of Netgear switches after that little episode at the colocation facility where the BigIron switch was taken down by the Netgear's freak-out while unplugging the fiber optic line, but in truth I don't have enough experience with Netgear to know whether that was just some kind of bizarre one-time deal or a problem with Netgear. Still, given what's been posted about al various types of switches, it makes sense to be a bit wary of certain manufacturers. Most of you guys earn your bread and butter with these sorts of things, so the fewer messups, the better. --I had a buddy drive down to where they sell used or cheap hardware. I have 0.00 idea how well my new switch will do. Even if I had a detailed schematics sheet, there are other complexities. Components, production, Zeus-knows. live 'n' learn. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 07:21:02AM -0400, re...@adeptscience.com wrote: Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 07:21:02 -0400 From: re...@adeptscience.com Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep To: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org, Gary Kline kl...@thought.org, FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.31) Not a switch but I have had a router and two PCs just die in the last year. I know the agony of having to restore things that weren't broken as I went through that with the router. I hate to have to fix things that I broke trying to find out what was broke, as bad as having to rewrite code after you have a working system and your drive fails without a backup. This to shall pass. Charlie In November, '99 an almost-new 9.1G harddrive krapped out during a power-out, On, Out, then On. All within seven seconds. It was a new machine, not yet plugged into my surge-protector. It was SCSI drive and it was dead. I had a 4mm tape drive, but part of it overwrote itself so I lost more than 6 months' of stuff. I'm still not completely over that loss. ...WEll, then again, at least I've quit drinking two fifths of JD every night! ==just another one of those oh-shit episodes. gary On 9 Jun 2011 at 3:45, Bill Tillman wrote: From: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org To: FreeBSD Mailing List freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sent: Wed, June 8, 2011 8:56:59 PM Subject: Long Day's Journey into Bleep Well, people, It's been a long, long century. I've been down for 5 days. Couldn't understand _why_ I couldn't ping anywhere [expect the Server itself]. Finally, tho, it became more and more likely that my FreeBSD was fine ... even tho I kept stripping the most likely problem points. My large 16-port LinkSys router was either *it* or it was some kind of bug unknown to geekdom. After a friend bought me a new (and tiny) 8-port switch, yes! I could ping everywhere. I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. After wandering in the wilderness for 5 days, mmph, dunno. gary PS: yes, this is a serious question. 1) I like things-Cisco, and LinkSys. I just bought this switch about 2.5 years ago, so I really am looking for feedback. PPS: Another question to ask about upgrading is next. -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Good to hear you're back on line. But to answer your question about parts going bad. I haven't had much go bad on me in the last 10 years but back in the 1990's when I was doing pure IT work and was making lots of purchases of parts I did. Now you have to remember that back then a 28.8 modem cost $375 and cell phones were only in the hands of the very rich and very important. I could buy parts and sometimes find them defective out of the box. Others would work fine. Today, I haven't bought many new components because everything is working. My switch has been operating fine for the last five years. I replaced my FreeBSD sever a few years ago. It was a P166 with 96MB RAM and it had been running almost non-stop, 24/7 for 12 years. But then I had another machine right next to it that I built in 2002 and it whimped out only a couple of years later and I hardly ever ran that machine. In today's world, I would say that the majority of the parts you buy will be good to go, but that's why parts only come with a 90 or 1 year warranty. The manufacturers know when to back off their guarantees on electronic components. O.M.G.: my switch only came with a 30-day return. i haven't checked the warantee, tho. -g I remember the 28.8's not the price being $300. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org __ This email has been scanned
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 12:48:29PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 12:48:29 -0600 From: Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG freebsd-questions@freebsd.org On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 10:25:27AM -0400, Mike L wrote: whats this have to do with freebsd questions? You seem to have a bad habit of spamming the mailing list with mundane BS. I might agree if the discussion didn't warnder into good and bad switches, which is something that many of us are conconcerned with. Otherwise, i apologise. Bringing things back to FreeBSD again . . . Are parts available for building an inexpensive switch, perhaps with the ability to use a stripped-down FreeBSD to run the thing? The closest I've found so far is this: http://www.automationworld.com/products-2039 It says make your own, but it looks to me like what they mean by that is put it in your own box and brand it with your name; power supply not included. The hardware requirements for building a switch are, unfortunately, outside my area of expertise. I'll check it out when I'm using evo. My bg was in ckt design, but that was a Long time back. For those of us who use FreeBSD at work, the expense of a switch shouldn't be an issue. For me, I _will_ just buy a second LG switch. Still, be interesting to see if one of my old computers with FBSD 8.X could run the unit. Appreciate the tip, Chad. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
--As of June 9, 2011 12:48:29 PM -0600, Chad Perrin is alleged to have said: Are parts available for building an inexpensive switch, perhaps with the ability to use a stripped-down FreeBSD to run the thing? The closest I've found so far is this: http://www.automationworld.com/products-2039 It says make your own, but it looks to me like what they mean by that is put it in your own box and brand it with your name; power supply not included. The hardware requirements for building a switch are, unfortunately, outside my area of expertise. --As for the rest, it is mine. Depending on your needs, Soekris, ALIX, or Netgate products could all work. Most don't have large numbers of ports (2-5 built in are standard, and some have expansion capability), but can run some higher-level processing while doing switching work. It may or may not be cost-effective though. Especially if all you need is pure switch. Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:01:03PM -0400, Daniel Staal wrote: Depending on your needs, Soekris, ALIX, or Netgate products could all work. Most don't have large numbers of ports (2-5 built in are standard, and some have expansion capability), but can run some higher-level processing while doing switching work. I appreciate the information. Unfortunately, while I can find products offered under these brands for sale on the Internet, this is not (as I mentioned) within my areas of expertise, so I'm finding the information about the products somewhat opaque. In many cases, it's not even obvious which of the products I find are suitable for building various types of network switches. Do you know of any Webpages that might help me rectify my dearth of understanding in this area? Thanks to the completeness of documentation such as the FreeBSD Handbook, learning how to build firewalls and routers is a relatively trivial exercise. Switches are another matter entirely. . . . -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpWvDO3L1aNE.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, 9 Jun 2011, Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 06:01:03PM -0400, Daniel Staal wrote: Depending on your needs, Soekris, ALIX, or Netgate products could all work. Most don't have large numbers of ports (2-5 built in are standard, and some have expansion capability), but can run some higher-level processing while doing switching work. I appreciate the information. Unfortunately, while I can find products offered under these brands for sale on the Internet, this is not (as I mentioned) within my areas of expertise, so I'm finding the information about the products somewhat opaque. In many cases, it's not even obvious which of the products I find are suitable for building various types of network switches. Do you know of any Webpages that might help me rectify my dearth of understanding in this area? Thanks to the completeness of documentation such as the FreeBSD Handbook, learning how to build firewalls and routers is a relatively trivial exercise. Switches are another matter entirely. . . . A switch can also be called a bridge. FreeBSD seems to have built-in facility for bridging. See: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/filtering-bridges/index.html It isn't something I have any experience with, though. Daniel Feenberg -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 07:54:00PM -0400, Daniel Feenberg wrote: A switch can also be called a bridge. FreeBSD seems to have built-in facility for bridging. See: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/filtering-bridges/index.html Thanks for that URI. Knowing what information is available in FreeBSD articles outside of the Handbook is not a skill I have developed, yet; I did not know this article existed. I'll give it a look. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpYCMNgEmtmt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 05:56:59PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpdxTqjStEW3.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On 6/8/11 11:53 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 05:56:59PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. Ditto. Most recently a Cisco switch had a rather useful port go into a really weird state that didn't really look broken but bits just...weren'tflowing. Took a while, and a lot of poking at the server in question, before we looked at each other and said, Wait, we've been assuming the switch works, what if it isn't. BTW, Gary, Linksys=Cisco is pretty much just a marketing thing and not a technology thing. --Jon Radel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 12:18:52AM -0400, Jon Radel wrote: Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2011 00:18:52 -0400 From: Jon Radel j...@radel.com Subject: Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro CLI mailer On 6/8/11 11:53 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 05:56:59PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: I'm still bringing back the dozens of things I removed from ethic. And testing new ideas. But I have a general question: have any of you wizards who run your own domains or otherwise use a switch [or hub] *ever* had it just-quit?! It is solid-state. Yes, the box is within my feet/foot reach. I have accidently kicked it i suppose, but still. I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. Ditto. Most recently a Cisco switch had a rather useful port go into a really weird state that didn't really look broken but bits just...weren'tflowing. Took a while, and a lot of poking at the server in question, before we looked at each other and said, Wait, we've been assuming the switch works, what if it isn't. Hm. WEll, I suppose stranger things have happened. If Chad has had his switch drop connections one-by-one---well, news to me! I figured, hey, solid- state will work forever and 20 years, whichever comes first. ... BTW, Gary, Linksys=Cisco is pretty much just a marketing thing and not a technology thing. Sure. But I've had luck++ with LinkSys for years, even before Cisco bought them out. --My new switch is an LG. See what happens. ... . --Jon Radel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix Journey Toward the Dawn, E-Book: http://www.thought.org The 8.51a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Long Day's Journey into Bleep
On Wed, Jun 08, 2011 at 10:21:13PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: On Thu, Jun 09, 2011 at 12:18:52AM -0400, Jon Radel wrote: On 6/8/11 11:53 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: I think I've just had ports die one by one on a switch until it no longer worked. I don't think I've ever had the whole thing go poof for no evident reason. Ditto. Most recently a Cisco switch had a rather useful port go into a really weird state that didn't really look broken but bits just...weren'tflowing. Took a while, and a lot of poking at the server in question, before we looked at each other and said, Wait, we've been assuming the switch works, what if it isn't. Hm. WEll, I suppose stranger things have happened. If Chad has had his switch drop connections one-by-one---well, news to me! I figured, hey, solid- state will work forever and 20 years, whichever comes first. ... I've had it happen with no fewer than three switches. I've also seen an enterprise class Netgear switch issue a death scream of some sort over the network at the moment the fiber optic cable was removed from it, crashing the BigIron switch that ran the data center. . . . but Cisco switches are overpriced crap. We were disconnecting the Netgear to replace it with a Cisco that offered a lot more functionality, and administration turned out to be a fucking nightmare with that thing. It's like replacing Postfix with MS Exchange because you want integrated calendaring and all the other crap in the BusinessWeek full-page ad, then finding out that you basically need a full-time employee just to manage that one server. BTW, Gary, Linksys=Cisco is pretty much just a marketing thing and not a technology thing. Sure. But I've had luck++ with LinkSys for years, even before Cisco bought them out. --My new switch is an LG. See what happens. ... . In my (limited) experience, Linksys actually got more annoying after Cisco bought out the company. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpIR3WwNtr47.pgp Description: PGP signature
