Re: manufacturing
Kenzo wrote: My boss just presented me with an Idea. He wants for me to build couple computers to use on the manufacturing floor using linux or Freebsd. I set up almost the exact same system for a client of mine. They _do_ use Windows, however, and I'll explain why (although I can't say that I think it's the best possible solution). 1) The database that tracks all their engineering data was written in Foxpro (although that's going to change) and Fox only runs on Windows. 2) Their engineering drawings are in AutoCAD. AutoDesk provides the Volo view software that give pan/zoom capabilities in a read-only package. Again, only runs in Windows. And Volo view is free (dollar-wise). 3) The hardware itself was trickled down when the admins got their new computers that were trickled down from engineering. IOW, the computers are about 5 years old, and already had Windows on them from when they were new. The computers will only need a web browser and some type of remote control. How are you going to view CAD files in a web browser? (I'm curious, I may be able to use the info) For remote control, ssh can be scripted to do commands. If you're sure about the security of your network, you could even use rsh. The reason is this. We're a manufacturing plant, with of course a manufacturing line. On the lines, they have drawings and schematics, that the workers need to look at. well right now, what they do is print those out and post them at every workstations. what they would like is a computer at every workstation that can use a browser to look at a webpage where the drawings and schematics will be located. I can give you 2 pieces of information on this plan ... 1) It's well worth the time and effort, makes everything easier and more likely to be up to date and correct. 2) It probably won't go as smoothly as you like. We found that the engineer's drawings weren't nearly as organized as they claimed, and the results were mistakes and shop workers sitting around the engineering department while the engineers figured out where the drawings were. The result was also that engineering has gotten a lot more organized ;) They don't feel like spending 500 bucks for a new windows machine, so we figure we could just use our old computers for that. Makes sense. Most shop environments are hell on computers, and they'll have quite a short lifespan. They will also need some type of remote control, they were thinking that one operator would be in charge of connecting to all the computers and opening the webpage. I was thinking of using someting like VNC. Oops ... that may be a tall order for ssh or rsh. You could also set up a single machine and make the rest X-terminals. Now, what would be the best way to accomplish this? He is more geared toward a linux box with redhat, but I would rather setup a computer with Freebsd that would do all the trick. what x-window manager should I use? Were it me, I'd use something plain-jane like Enlightenment or twm or some other minimal WM, to keep them from playing around. what should I use for web browser? Mozilla, Opera, or Galeon. Will using VNC work? Probably, but test the performance first. I was thinking of only connecting a monitor to those workstations and have no keyboards and mouse. How do the users control things then? You're going to have the shop manager control everything completely? Interesting twist. We found it to be very efficient to let the operator control their own computer. But then again, the software I wrote allows them to click on the job they're working on and the drawing they need just pops up ... so the back-end logic is important to the success of that scheme. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: manufacturing
Interesting question-- hope I can help. Kenzo wrote: [ ... ] what they would like is a computer at every workstation that can use a browser to look at a webpage where the drawings and schematics will be located. Using Apache as a document store works pretty well, but it helps to have some kind of publishing mechanism. mod_dav could be a start. They don't feel like spending 500 bucks for a new windows machine, so we figure we could just use our old computers for that. Sure. You probably can get away with using just X terminals, or even simply long video cables. :-) Now, what would be the best way to accomplish this? He is more geared toward a linux box with redhat, but I would rather setup a computer with Freebsd that would do all the trick. what x-window manager should I use? I know KDE uses alot of resources, but what about gnome? what should I use for web browser? [ ... ] Will using VNC work? I was thinking of only connecting a monitor to those workstations and have no keyboards and mouse. Are the factory workers going to interact with their workstations at all? Or is the central operator going to do everything, and the workers will just look at an image on the screen? If that's the case, there's no need to run VNC, an X window manager, or a browser. See man xhost and the -display option; the operator can simply run a command which will remotely display the image to each workstation. Check out /usr/ports/x11/xloadimage Approximately how many stations and how far apart are they? -Chuck To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: manufacturing
- Original Message - From: Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Kenzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: Re: manufacturing Interesting question-- hope I can help. Kenzo wrote: [ ... ] what they would like is a computer at every workstation that can use a browser to look at a webpage where the drawings and schematics will be located. Using Apache as a document store works pretty well, but it helps to have some kind of publishing mechanism. mod_dav could be a start. They don't feel like spending 500 bucks for a new windows machine, so we figure we could just use our old computers for that. Sure. You probably can get away with using just X terminals, or even simply long video cables. :-) Now, what would be the best way to accomplish this? He is more geared toward a linux box with redhat, but I would rather setup a computer with Freebsd that would do all the trick. what x-window manager should I use? I know KDE uses alot of resources, but what about gnome? what should I use for web browser? [ ... ] Will using VNC work? I was thinking of only connecting a monitor to those workstations and have no keyboards and mouse. Are the factory workers going to interact with their workstations at all? Or is the central operator going to do everything, and the workers will just look at an image on the screen? The workers will only need to look at the screen and not interact. If that's the case, there's no need to run VNC, an X window manager, or a browser. See man xhost and the -display option; the operator can simply run a command which will remotely display the image to each workstation. Check out /usr/ports/x11/xloadimage I will look into that. Sounds interesting. Approximately how many stations and how far apart are they? At this point I don't know how many stations will be required and how far appart they are. they just want me to come up with something and have some demo to show the VPs and hopefully sell the idea. -Chuck To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: manufacturing
- Original Message - From: Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Kenzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 9:23 AM Subject: Re: manufacturing Kenzo wrote: My boss just presented me with an Idea. He wants for me to build couple computers to use on the manufacturing floor using linux or Freebsd. I set up almost the exact same system for a client of mine. They _do_ use Windows, however, and I'll explain why (although I can't say that I think it's the best possible solution). 1) The database that tracks all their engineering data was written in Foxpro (although that's going to change) and Fox only runs on Windows. 2) Their engineering drawings are in AutoCAD. AutoDesk provides the Volo view software that give pan/zoom capabilities in a read-only package. Again, only runs in Windows. And Volo view is free (dollar-wise). 3) The hardware itself was trickled down when the admins got their new computers that were trickled down from engineering. IOW, the computers are about 5 years old, and already had Windows on them from when they were new. The computers will only need a web browser and some type of remote control. How are you going to view CAD files in a web browser? (I'm curious, I may be able to use the info) For remote control, ssh can be scripted to do commands. If you're sure about the security of your network, you could even use rsh. I don't think that they will view CAD drawings. Our webmaster will create an application that will make it easy for the people posting the pictures to load them into the server. The reason is this. We're a manufacturing plant, with of course a manufacturing line. On the lines, they have drawings and schematics, that the workers need to look at. well right now, what they do is print those out and post them at every workstations. what they would like is a computer at every workstation that can use a browser to look at a webpage where the drawings and schematics will be located. I can give you 2 pieces of information on this plan ... 1) It's well worth the time and effort, makes everything easier and more likely to be up to date and correct. 2) It probably won't go as smoothly as you like. We found that the engineer's drawings weren't nearly as organized as they claimed, and the results were mistakes and shop workers sitting around the engineering department while the engineers figured out where the drawings were. The result was also that engineering has gotten a lot more organized ;) They don't feel like spending 500 bucks for a new windows machine, so we figure we could just use our old computers for that. Makes sense. Most shop environments are hell on computers, and they'll have quite a short lifespan. They will also need some type of remote control, they were thinking that one operator would be in charge of connecting to all the computers and opening the webpage. I was thinking of using someting like VNC. Oops ... that may be a tall order for ssh or rsh. You could also set up a single machine and make the rest X-terminals. Now, what would be the best way to accomplish this? He is more geared toward a linux box with redhat, but I would rather setup a computer with Freebsd that would do all the trick. what x-window manager should I use? Were it me, I'd use something plain-jane like Enlightenment or twm or some other minimal WM, to keep them from playing around. what should I use for web browser? Mozilla, Opera, or Galeon. Will using VNC work? Probably, but test the performance first. I was thinking of only connecting a monitor to those workstations and have no keyboards and mouse. How do the users control things then? You're going to have the shop manager control everything completely? Interesting twist. We found it to be very efficient to let the operator control their own computer. But then again, the software I wrote allows them to click on the job they're working on and the drawing they need just pops up ... so the back-end logic is important to the success of that scheme. Yes our plan is to only have one person per assembly line controlling the computers so that they will all see the same thing. I would like to think that if we give them all control over the computers, they would only use it for work, but I find that people like to play around and see what they can get away with. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: manufacturing
Kenzo wrote: [ ... ] Are the factory workers going to interact with their workstations at all? Or is the central operator going to do everything, and the workers will just look at an image on the screen? The workers will only need to look at the screen and not interact. Very well. That means we can concentrate more on the operator's environment. How often do the images change? Is the operator going to compose the images (documents?) on that central machine: say by scanning paper documents, or doing CAD, or whatever? How should the operator publish documents to individual workstations? Via a web-based application? [ ... ] Approximately how many stations and how far apart are they? At this point I don't know how many stations will be required and how far appart they are. they just want me to come up with something and have some demo to show the VPs and hopefully sell the idea. OK. Set up a demo network of 3 machines; one as a server, and two clients (to show that more than one end-user workstation works). -Chuck PS: What happens if one of your VP's asks the same question I did? It's good to have an answer ready... :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: manufacturing
I appriciate all the help from everyone. I just got off the phone with my supervisor and of course they changed their mind. Now they want all the computers to be able to look at different screens so that they can work on different jobs on the line. Makes sense, but that's not what they told the first time. But I guest that's just the way it works in the corporate world. I guess it's back to setting up a computers on every workstation with keyboard and mouse so that they can pull up their own stuff to look at. Again thanks. - Original Message - From: Chuck Swiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 10:02 AM Subject: Re: manufacturing Kenzo wrote: [ ... ] Are the factory workers going to interact with their workstations at all? Or is the central operator going to do everything, and the workers will just look at an image on the screen? The workers will only need to look at the screen and not interact. Very well. That means we can concentrate more on the operator's environment. How often do the images change? Is the operator going to compose the images (documents?) on that central machine: say by scanning paper documents, or doing CAD, or whatever? How should the operator publish documents to individual workstations? Via a web-based application? [ ... ] Approximately how many stations and how far apart are they? At this point I don't know how many stations will be required and how far appart they are. they just want me to come up with something and have some demo to show the VPs and hopefully sell the idea. OK. Set up a demo network of 3 machines; one as a server, and two clients (to show that more than one end-user workstation works). -Chuck PS: What happens if one of your VP's asks the same question I did? It's good to have an answer ready... :-) To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: manufacturing
Kenzo wrote: I don't think that they will view CAD drawings. Our webmaster will create an application that will make it easy for the people posting the pictures to load them into the server. I doubt that will work, but if it does, I'd love to hear about it. The reason I don't think it will work is that engineering drawings on a computer screen usually require a lot of zooming in/out to be useful, and I don't know of any browsers that will give you that control. Although, you may be able to install some sort of image viewer that would do it. Yes our plan is to only have one person per assembly line controlling the computers so that they will all see the same thing. I would like to think that if we give them all control over the computers, they would only use it for work, but I find that people like to play around and see what they can get away with. True, but that's a _different_ problem. If they're slacking, they'll slack with other things than just the computer (although, experience shows that productivity will drop off for the first week or so until the novelty wears off). Besides, if you do a plain-jane install, once they've figured out that there isn't anything there to play with, they'll quit messing around. (i.e. don't install any games or anything) My experience also shows that the power they have to find the information they need without wandering around bugging bosses and foremen and engineers will save more time than they lose to solitair. We actually left all the games on the shop computers at the place I set up. It hasn't been enough of a problem to worry about. Actually, it probably saves time, because they spend their breaks at their workstations playing solitair, instead of going to the break room ;) Wandering over to ask a foreman or an engineer is a _huge_ time waster in my experience. In fact, one of the design goals of the system I created was to reduce the time that shop workers spend bothering engineers. At least when they're looking for it themselves, they're only wasting _their_ time, not the engineer's time. If you have a dedicated shop foreman, however, your situation may be different. This is starting to get off-topic. I'll reply off-list in the future. -- Bill Moran Potential Technologies http://www.potentialtech.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: manufacturing
In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kenzo [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: My boss just presented me with an Idea. And I realize that it's changed, and each computer will now be independent. But here's input anyway. He is more geared toward a linux box with redhat, but I would rather setup a computer with Freebsd that would do all the trick. what x-window manager should I use? I know KDE uses alot of resources, but what about gnome? I'd recommend plpwm (part of the plwm port). Have it configured with no keyboard shortcuts, or possibly one to relauch the browser. Launch the browser with .xinitrc. plpwm will automatically make it full-screen. They can then mouse around on it to their hearts content, but won't be able to do much else. Ratpoison can probably be used to do the same thing. It should be lighter than plpwm, but it won't be as easy to configure. what should I use for web browser? Well, I was going to suggest something with a remote feature like Mozilla, but that seems sort of piontless now. You might as well use whatever your webmaster recommends, which will probably mean either mozilla or netscape. mike -- Mike Meyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.mired.org/consulting.html Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
Re: manufacturing
On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 11:55:03 -0500, Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kenzo wrote: I don't think that they will view CAD drawings. Our webmaster will create an application that will make it easy for the people posting the pictures to load them into the server. I doubt that will work, but if it does, I'd love to hear about it. The reason I don't think it will work is that engineering drawings on a computer screen usually require a lot of zooming in/out to be useful, and I don't know of any browsers that will give you that control. [snip] Opera does. It is also quite small and fast. Not free unless you agree to an ad banner, though. People generally have reported better results with the Linux version running on FreeBSD with Linux emulation than the FreeBSD native version, but YMMV - many of the complaints about the native version concern the fact that there aren't FreeBSD versions of popular plugins, which is something you may not be at all concerned with. Jud To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with unsubscribe freebsd-questions in the body of the message
