Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
hat popular? Marketing and product placement strategies. Definitely NOT quality of software. > The > "server" editions of linux distributions are almost mirrors of their > desktops, gui and all. Yes, and I'm old enough to fail to see why I would want to have a GUI on a server that doesn't even have a GPU. :-) Allow me to add a very personal comment: I'm using FreeBSD for many years now, and I have also tried many Linusi for home use, office use, project work and even for some critical stuff. I've always come back to FreeBSD for most uses. This is because I'm primarily a developer. Developers traditionally want GOOD documentation, stable APIs and ABIs, and a system they can trust, which is willing to give them insight to its internals. Secondary, I'm a kind of psychologist who is able to see why _other_ systems are so successful in many fields of IT. With some knowledge it's not hard to conclude where development is heading. Although there are (or have been?) some "big users" of FreeBSD, I would say that this particular system is a niche system. As there are many audiences in IT (to name a few: ISPs, home commodity & entertainment users, gamers, lamers, education, text processing offices, industrial machine control, diagnostics & repair, mobile applications), there _have_ to be many systems, and FreeBSD _fits_ some niches where everything else just FAILS. There is no kind of "one size fits all" operating system. No system is dead that has its users. FreeBSD _has_ and surely _will have_ users who use it, who develop it, who help it carrying on in the future. Poetterings generic statement "isn't relevant anymore" can be proven wrong by _one_ counterexample (as according to logic all allquantified statements can): FreeBSD is not irrelevant _to me_. (And it gets even more strange, as Poettering is allquantifying *BSD!) And furthermore, I've found some Linux users migrating AWAY from Linux, using FreeBSD instead. How can this be combined with Poettering's claim? I've really waited some time to write a statement to a discussion that _I_ consider isnt relevant, as well as Poettering and his creations. Please don't see this as a persomal offence, it's _my_ individual statement as PulseAudio, Avahi and systemd are fully irrelevant to me. He made _his_ personal statement, I made _mine_. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Tools to find "unlegal" files ( videos , music etc )
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:55:09 +0200, Frank Bonnet wrote: > Hello > > Anyone knows an utility that I could pipe to the "find" command > in order to detect video, music, games ... etc files ? > > I need a tool that could "inspect" inside files because many users > rename those filename to "inoffensive" ones :-) One way could be to define a list of file extensions that commonly matches the content you want to track. Of course, the file name does not directly correspond to the content, but it often gives a good hint to search for *.wmv, *.flv, *.avi, *.mp(e)g, *.mp3, *.wma, *.exe - and of course all the variations of the extensions with uppercase letters. Also consider *.rar and maybe *.zip for compressed content. If file extensions have been manipulated (rare case), the "file" command can still identify the correct file type. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Tools to find "unlegal" files ( videos , music etc )
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:38:22 +0200, Frank Bonnet wrote: > On 07/18/2011 10:10 AM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:55:09 +0200, Frank Bonnet wrote: > >> Hello > >> > >> Anyone knows an utility that I could pipe to the "find" command > >> in order to detect video, music, games ... etc files ? > >> > >> I need a tool that could "inspect" inside files because many users > >> rename those filename to "inoffensive" ones :-) > > One way could be to define a list of file extensions that > > commonly matches the content you want to track. Of course, > > the file name does not directly correspond to the content, > > but it often gives a good hint to search for *.wmv, *.flv, > > *.avi, *.mp(e)g, *.mp3, *.wma, *.exe - and of course all > > the variations of the extensions with uppercase letters. > > Also consider *.rar and maybe *.zip for compressed content. > > > > If file extensions have been manipulated (rare case), the > > "file" command can still identify the correct file type. > > > > > > > > > yes thanks , gonna try with the file command You could make a simple script that lists "file" output for all files (just to be sure because of possible suffix renaming) for further inspection. Sometimes, you can also run "strings" for a given file - maybe that can be used to identify typical suspicious string patters for a "strings + grep" combination so less manual identification has to be done. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: can't build teTeX port in FreeBSD 8.2 amd64
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:19:13 +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > If you know of another tex project where teTeX fails, > please send me the details. I'm keen to patch > teTeX as far as possible with no major > changes to TDS, i.e. just adding or updating > a package. If TeXlive is (or becomes) "the LaTeX" (obsoleting teTeX), there should be a proper integration with the ports system, e. g. downloading the ISO and running the install scripts when you do "make install", and even pkg_add should be possible. Furthermore, there should be a way to define dependencies correctly, e. g. if you've already installed TeXlive, there's no obvious reason to also install teTeX - except some ports define it as a dependency. So maybe there could be a switch to define an override or a preference, e. g. in /etc/make.conf in a form of LATEX=TEXLIVE or LATEX=TETEX (with a reasonable default, maybe really =TEXLIVE), and ports depending on "some LaTeX" should honor this preference. Even with our endless hard disks, some users do not see it as "good practice" to install two functionally nearly identical software packages. :-) I'm writing this as a long-term teTeX user. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: What is xz ?
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:36:07 +0400, Peter Vereshagin wrote:
> Hey Mr(s) freebsd-questions show some good to me!
> 2011/07/17 23:08:16 -0400 "ill...@gmail.com" => To
> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org :
>
> igc> (Should be under contrib/xz )
>
> archivers/xz
/usr/ports/archivers/xz on my (quite old) 7-STABLE installation.
/usr/src/contrib/xz on my ("new") 8.2-STABLE installation.
So obviously it's a port that got incorporated into the
base system which must have happened somewhere between
7 and 8.
--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: groff && UTF-8
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 12:49:39 +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> In the '90 I have used for a lot of my internal and external papers and
> letter the groff suite (gtbl, groff, ...) with good results.
>
> I've now a project where it would fit really nicely. It's making
> (Postscript or PCL) printout of some pages like this example one:
>
> http://www.unixarea.de/MagazinZettel.pdf
>
> in which most of the part is just plain text, printed in some fixed
> font, a few big letters (big font) and some OCR-B on the page (like the
> number 471110 in the mentioned page).
>
> The critical part seems to be: the text is UTF-8 and converting this
> to ISO 8859-1 is not an option. It's a Library Management System we
> just ported to Unicode, and we don't want to fall back in printing :-)
>
> I've checked groff 1.21 from the ports but it seems to understand
> only making UTF-8 output with its driver -Tutf8. Is there a way to make
> it understand UTF-8 as input and making PCL or Postscript of it
> (like CUPS which has a filter 'texttops' which together with the
> FreeFonts can make Postscript of UTF-8 text)?
>
> Any other ideas?
>
> OCR-B is another issue, perhaps. But it seems that there are at least
> free fonts available for it in Postscript...
Other idea. :-)
One option is to use LaTeX which can understand UTF-8
in the input. I've used it primarily to incorporate
chinese text into german papers. Basically the macro
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} does the trick.
You're outputting plain text mostly, so LaTeX would be
considered "too heavy" at this point. I'm not sure if
you can program PostScript directly... maybe it does
understand UTF-8 as input text so you can write a simple
output filter that outputs PS, given some data input.
--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:30:00 -0400, Jerry wrote: > I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD start > a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write code that > either the regular contributors do not want to write or are not capable > of writing. Other OS's are currently working on that model. No one > would be forced to contribute. This would prove beneficial to everyone > and should satisfy both capitalist who don't mind paying for quality > products and socialist like Poly who want everything for nothing. It > would be a win-win situation. Erm... you're invited to prove the "everything for nothing" as well as the "socialist" claim. I'm old enough not to take this insult personally, but still (for maintaining discussion culture) please back up your statement, or it will simply classify you as impolite and stupid. Besides that nonsense, I agree with your statement. With support (usually by money) and help of manufacturers that are interested in bringing their hardware to a better support situation by providing information and documentation so developers could write drivers for many platforms, it would be a win-win situation. It would even be better than cost-intensive reverse engineering - means: better drivers in less time, so FreeBSD could be used on most modern hardware. The more standards are used, the less work is needed to bring the new hardware up. (Just imagine you would need a driver for a hard disk...) Personally, this is no issue for me as I don't own such things, but because you claim that I "want everything for nothing"... :-) Keep in mind that I've also spent money on software, but on one that WORKS. Maybe this could even affect the whole *BSD family, so by the availability of more drivers, more desktop share could be gained, which seems to be the measurement of OS quality today. > With the advent of the next version of FBSD soon to be upon us, > this would be a propitious moment to start such a project. FBSD has > never been considered a dreadnought in the driver development field and > this might work to change that. The idea seems to have lots of potential. With paid developers who are willing to license their work as BSDL code, it could really improve the "out of the box support" of the system. On the other hand - as you mentioned -, it may be the lack of support of the community, but THAT is the main force behind FreeBSD. Other operating systems have big companies behind them who are able and willing to spend money on "prestige projects", as well as their everyday work because they need to make their living from it - or gain world domination. :-) The more the FreeBSD community depends on having certain hardware working, the more support I see for developers. But as the community seems to be spread across all the many forms of OS use (mostly servers, but also stationary workstations, just a minority seems to be using mobile devices), I'm not sure it will be sufficient. It's not that FreeBSD is a "desktop-only OS" which can invest all its energy in getting commodity hardware working, while leaving quality aside on other fields. Poorly implemented features, broken code, messing around with quirks and short-time solutions do not seem to be very welcome among FreeBSD users. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
ted, getting into that market may be very important to keep using an OS. > For years, pundits have been proclaiming the > "Year of Linux on Laptops". Obviously that has never truly come to > pass. How could it, considering how poorly Linux worked on any medium > to high end unit. FreeBSD, unfortunately, doesn't even reach that > plateau. Yes. A situation that I would not disagree with. However, there are very few niche products that can - often given some tweaking - be made working. But that's often out of scopen when "just buying" something. > While poor implementation of code, etcetera is certainly a concern on > any OS, the lack of code is a greater concern for many users of modern > equipment. Hmmm... that's debatable. Would you - for example as a system administrator - like to run critical systems on a well-documented and high quality OS where you have access to the code in case of trouble, or would you rely on a vendor-supplied "black box" (in terms of software) that they claim "will just work", but in fact surprises you with lots of trouble you can't even diagnose? The modern equipment of today will be the electronic garbage of tomorrow. The same is true for data which will be the binary garbage of tomorrow (see: digital medieval times). Here the circle closes: Without STANDARDS, you wouldn't be able to view the digital pictures you took with a camera 10 years ago because the manufacturer decided to use a proprietary image format without any documentation, as you should only use the software supplied by the manufacturer. Dropping program version X and advertising version Y with the new models of the digital camera, and everything you'll have is a bunch of files nobody can read anymore. You can also see this in computer media, although with a lower half-life period. If you want to get into the future, rely on established, open and free standards. In my opinion, there is no alternative. Everything else would just increase costs (e. g. migration costs). But there are fields of use where costs simply doesn't matter (as it seems). > Any one, and all to may do, prefer to stay with the status > quo rather than invest in the future. In many businesses, that is > called "Dinosaur thinking", and we all know what happened to them. You are _fully_ correct here. Here in Germany, I do currently observe this thinking in many places, and it's still _far_ behind many other countries. If you want to see old-fashioned work, come here and have a look into "modern offices". It's scary how money is wasted and how poor security is, let alone efficiency of work! Those businesses that "don't get it" will be doomed to disappear from the market. Sadly, we have a lot of state-funded (means: kept alive by taxpayers!) economy, so "not enough money" isn't any concern for them. However, I said that many users don't feel the urge to "evolve" in a way that others want them to. Investing in the future is very important to keep in business and in operation, but defining future as giving up freedom of choice, giving up security, individualism, privacy and independence would be wrong. Relying on "big industry" to "carry" us into the future, with _them_ defining how it will be, is also wrong in my opinion. I hope you're not believing in the "free market" in general. Business is not about being nice to people. It's primarily about making money. And therefore, some uncomfortable thoughts have to be sacrificed to the goal of growth in unit sales (or whatever). This is where FreeBSD enters the game: It doesn't care about unit sales. It doesn't define its goals depending on market share in relation to others, or in catering specific target groups in customers. I agree with you that this implies certain disadvantages, like not being able to access "short term functionalities". On the other hand, FreeBSD can run hardware and software that no other OS can address, and there _are_ cases in which this is highly welcome. I want to see FreeBSD being existing and usable in the future. Sadly, I'm just a lame user who cannot help to improve the system by contributing to code or documen- tation. I applaud those who can - and DO, and I really appreciate what they've done. I may even say that most of the FreeBSD users feel the same. There is ___no___ ingratitude in this statement, even if it contains with mentioning that something isn't (yet) working. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 11:10:30 -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:51:55 +0100 > Frank Shute articulated: > > > I like Jerry's proposal. The FreeBSD Foundation should organise their > > donations page so that you can donate to various different areas of > > development like TUG do: > > > > https://www.tug.org/donate.html > > > > It should be at least split into server, workstation and general > > development. > > > > I donate to both FreeBSD and TUG but I far prefer the TUG model. When > > I donate to the Foundation, I know a lot of my money is going to > > esoteric server development which doesn't benefit me much but benefits > > large corporations who can afford to fund their own development to > > scratch *their own* itches. I want mine scratched! > > Thanks, I was not familiar with "tug". I will definitely investigate it > further. I am also in total agreement with you statement regarding > donations to the Foundation. How much money (I don't really expect an > answer) was donated to the Java group. Yet, they never delivered an > up-to-date version. I'd like to express my sympathy for such a donation model. It would give those who are not able to contribute to system development to "vote with their wallets" - showing the directions where more development is needed and which functionality is important to them. The question is: How differentiated can such an approach be in reality? > By the way Frank, agreeing with anything I propose on this forum will > probably draw Poly's wrath not to mention the general disapproval of > the masses at large. Again, you are wrong, because it seems that you think throwing stereotypes at people you know nothing about makes you look superior (instead of giving a good argumentation). In the case above, your suggesion _is_ a very good one, and I have no problem agreeing to it, no matter if any obscure "masses at large" would approve or disapprove. Wrath is a feeling unknown to me. > Unfortunately, the "Something for Nothing" mindset > permeates all too strongly though the community. I honestly believe > that there are users here who would rather eat garbage than pay a > dollar (currency of your choosing) to have a fine meal. Not to mention those who pay money to actually eat garbage while being told it's a fine meal. :-) In fact, I would not hesitate to fund development that would fit my individual interests (as my donation would also be individual). If this benefits the whole community (as a "nice side effect"), where would be the problem? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Am I Missing A Compat Library?
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:11:28 -0500, Tim Daneliuk wrote: > I just ran pkg_libchk and got this: > > avahi-app-0.6.29: /usr/local/lib/libavahi-glib.so.1 misses libicui18n.so.46 > > As I've never seen this before, I'm unclear on what to do to remmediate. Seems to originate from Unicode support. The devel/icu port should be the one to bring this library. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: FBSD 8.2 and USB Floppies
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 19:57:02 +0100, Pegasus Mc Cleaft wrote: > On Monday 18 July 2011 19:45:27 James Colannino wrote: > > > > newfs /dev/da0 > > > > It was successful. I then tried to mount the new filesystem (mount > > /dev/da0 /mnt), and got the same error: invalid argument. Does FBSD > > have a problem mounting USB floppy disks? It's not a big deal, as my > > other USB storage devices seem to work, and as I have an ordinary floppy > > drive I can try, but that curious part of me wants to know why this > > isn't working. > > > > Have you tried: > > mount_msdosfs /dev/da0 /mnt You can alternatively use the "most portable file system" which isn't even a file system: it is tar. I've been using this approach among different UNIX, Linux and Solaris systems that didn't have network connections. The approach on FreeBSD is this: # fdformat -y /dev/da0 # tar cvf /dev/da0 files... and on the target system: # tar xvf /dev/da0 Add compression (z and j) if required. In this example, da0 represents the USB floppy drive; a regular one would be /dev/fd0. (Device names vary among UNIX and Linux systems.) Although this approach doesn't allow you to mount MS-DOS formatted floppies, it's a good check to see if writing and reading of the media works as intended. For the mount_msdos command mentioned above, check if you need additional masking flags as this file system doesn't understand UNIX permissions (and therefore files are often +x). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:48:46 -0400, Jerry wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:58:08 +0200
> Polytropon articulated:
>
> > Here the circle closes: Without STANDARDS, you wouldn't
> > be able to view the digital pictures you took with a
> > camera 10 years ago because the manufacturer decided
> > to use a proprietary image format without any documentation,
> > as you should only use the software supplied by the
> > manufacturer. Dropping program version X and advertising
> > version Y with the new models of the digital camera,
> > and everything you'll have is a bunch of files nobody
> > can read anymore. You can also see this in computer
> > media, although with a lower half-life period.
> >
> > If you want to get into the future, rely on established,
> > open and free standards.
> >
> > In my opinion, there is no alternative. Everything else
> > would just increase costs (e. g. migration costs). But
> > there are fields of use where costs simply doesn't matter
> > (as it seems).
>
> I apologize for cherry picking this; however, your analysis is so
> faulty that I was force to. You camera analogy is simply absurd.
I wanted it to be understood as an analogy.
> You were aware that Kodak dropped the C22 development process decades
> ago which effectively make all films designed for that process useless.
> It also spelled then end of GAF, but that is another story. KODACHROME
> Film was discontinues after a 74 year run. Actually, it was created due
> to Kodak's inability to properly stabilize the layers in the color film
> it was trying to create; but that is another story. I still have
> several collector's grade cameras that used films such as the 116 and
> 616 designations. These films were discontinued in 1984.
You're talking hardware (film material) here, not software.
Your analogy illustrates how technology does disappear. It
gets more and more complicated working with film material,
as digital cameras allow you to do all the things that you
could do with expensive cameras only in the past. Even
professionals have switched (of course to expensive and
therefor professional camera models), both for photographing
and for movies.
In software, see "planned obsolescense" and "digital medieval
times" ("digital middleage") and movements that want to keep
witnesses of our today's culture.
This means you will _always_ have to judge: Need a short-term
solution that is "the best" for a short term, or need a long-
term solution that is "good" (or even just "good enough") for
a longer period of time.
Sloppily engineered and halfway done solutions can - by means
of marketing - be sold for the first kind of products quite
easily, and "constantness" is not an important topic for the
main markets (home consumers).
> Should I sue
> Kodak, or any other manufacturer for their failure to continue support
> for these devices? When wan the last time you purchased a new Polaroid?
> News Flash: It was discontinued. Now, can you guess why? Perhaps you
> have noticed people using cameras that don't apparently use any film.
> You might want to investigate that further. You will find that newer
> technology supersedes and eventually obsoletes older technology.
It's _always_ that way. Interestingly, some oldest technology
still prevails. There are still books made of paper even though
there are alternatives. In the last year, more paper was used
and printed than in the year before, and the trend continues.
Even if you can argue that the use of actual paper is less and
less _required_, it's more and more _performed_.
We know paintings in caves older than 2000 years, books
older than 1000 years, paintings older than 500 years.
What will be present of our _today's_ digital culture
when the encryption codes are lost? When there are no
drives to read the media, or the media simply dissolved?
Of course you are right that newer technology will _always_
supersedes and eventually obsoletes older technology. But
you will also have to agree that technology will be used
as long as it's possible to make money from it, just see
petrol-driven cars as an example, and oil-based technology
in general.
> The point is, time moves on and technology advances.
Advances - yes.
Improves - not implicitely.
Fast and with best intentions for whole mankind and
environment - debatable.
Time moves on, and it's hard _not_ to move on.
I may point you to the "Matrix" movie trilogy. When mankind
finally looses interest in what it creates, because industry
tells us "It's all okay, just buy, just consume, it's the
best for you", then we will be unable to control our own
future. Just voting with the wallet seems to
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
mes the money) to find out what works for you. Or you rely on advertising telling you, often resulting in a scary nightmare - the thing that happens when you recognize that you've been fooled, like: "What? No support? You mean I have to buy a new PC _and_ a new printer? I just bought _that_ stuff for 2000$, and you tell me it's already useless?" (I've seen similar situations in business contexts many times.) > From Wikipedia: > > OS/2 1.x targeted the 80286 processor: IBM insisted on supporting the > Intel 80286 processor, with its 16-bit segmented memory mode, due to > commitments made to customers who had purchased many 80286-based PS/2's > because of IBM's promises surrounding OS/2.[16] Until release 2.0 in > April 1992, OS/2 ran in 16-bit protected mode and therefore could not > benefit from the Intel 80386's much simpler 32-bit flat memory model > and virtual 8086 mode features. This was especially painful in > providing support for DOS applications. While, in 1988, Windows/386 2.1 > could run several cooperatively multitasked DOS applications, including > expanded memory (EMS) emulation, OS/2 1.3, released in 1991, was still > limited to one 640KB "DOS box". But read further until OS/2 Warp. This was the last half-way important release. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:32:25 -0500, Paul Schmehl wrote: > In short, some people chase the newest shiniest thing. Others prefer to > stick with what works. Often, the newest shiniest folks, after they've > gained some wisdom, move to the other camp. So you could well see a > resurgence of BSD as Linux admins who've grown tired of its quirks but have > gained some unix skills start moving back toward the BSD side. And to add this: Sometimes, it's the "old guys" with their "outdated knowledge" and "strange systems" that keep the obsoleted programs of the shiny boxes on artificial life support, so that those who are used to rely on that software that includes a "self destruct mechanism" (see: planned obsolescense) can carry on using it, believing it "just works" and "is everything that exists". :-) Sadly, modern Linusi often don't encourage the user to gain knowledge. Understandable - why should they? It's about "just using", not about knowing anything, as (successfully) propagated by the marketing mechanisms of other systems. The knowledge you need to do work often is short-term knowledge: it's useless as soon as a new product comes out, simply because the new product "does everything better". That's why you don't find a "perfect product", as you could sell this one just ONCE. But just imagine you could sell a car that never fails. When the market is saturated, you don't sell anything anymore. So all the quirks, mistakes, problems and bugs in a product do benefit the selling process of the next product - which of course is promoted to be "free of bugs" (like its predecessor was, and its successor will be). And in regards of software, such a product would be limited to a specific hardware platform, preventing any improvements, maybe even hindering new innovative and useful products entering the market. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:01:20 -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:31:41 +0200 > Polytropon articulated: > > > Your TV example is very good. I've recently read a text > > that predicts the future of CDs - a text from the late 80's. > > When we consider what we are _currently_ using, the text > > predicting "no important future for CDs" looks quite funny. > > You are undoubtedly familiar with the 1986 quote: > > "I think there is a world market for about five computers" — Remark > attributed to Thomas J. Watson (Chairman of the Board of International > Business Machines) IBM has a tradition in information processing for approx. 100 years today. They've been "playing the game" from its beginning and have always aimed at the top of the customers - those that have no problem spending "too much" money on their technology. But this statement is claimed to be created in 1943, not in 1886; a different article claims about such a statement from 1953. At this time, those numbers sound quite obvious. They do _not_ sound probable for the 80's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_J._Watson See section "Famous misquote". > Now, I know you want to list Bill Gates' famous, "640K ought to be > enough for anybody." statement in 1981. The only problem with that is: > > 1) He denies it. > 2) No credible evidence or witness exists to prove he did say it. > > However, he readily admits making this one: > > "I see little commercial potential for the internet for the next 10" > years." Remarks at COMDEX (November 1994), attributed in Kommunikation > erstatter transport (2009) by Karl Krarup et al. questions 19.07.11 jerry malquoted gates; rectify :-) It's always funny how people predict development. You traditionally find them among politicians. They know nothing, but can explain everything. :-) Who would have thought, in the early days of "Windows", that this would be a mainstream OS some day? I mean, come on, it was worth a good laugh, nothing more, if you compared it to what competitors had to offer: highly superior. And some features that we take for granted in X, originated from that "ancient platforms", still have no equivalent in today's "Windows". See http://toastytech.com/guis/guitimeline.html - you can also find detailed screenshots of many GUI systems. And: You have to move to page 2 to see the first "Windows" here. While "Windows" will just be a footnote in IT history (in long term considerations), UNIX will be a philosophy. It will probably still run the Internet when users will have moved on to something different than "Windows"... This is just _my_ prediction, and time will tell if I'll have to join Watson, Gates and Torvalds. :-) > And who can forget the this 2006 beauty by Linus Torvalds: > > "Which mindset is right? Mine, of course. People who disagree with me > are by definition crazy. (Until I change my mind, when they can > suddenly become upstanding citizens. I’m flexible, and not > black-and-white.)" Sound like "Everyone is free to have his own opinion - as long as it matches mine." :-) > Actually, and this is a matter of semantics, I am technically using > DVDs and not CDs in my machines. And as surely as night follows day, > even that will be obsoleted soon enough. Of course it will, like VHS, Betamax, data tape. It's not a question IF it will. It's just WHEN. The next question will be: What will be NEXT? Better or worse? Will newer materials chemically dissolve faster or slower? Will more precise readers and writers (due to higher information packing rate) fail more often? Will it be compensated by cheap pricing? Home consumers who have precious memories on VHS-C tapes, on DV tapes or something similar will have to transition this content to new media. They will _always_ have to do this as long as no backwards compatibility isn't present. If they can't do it theirselves... tadaa! Market. Development is about creating markets, not about solving present problems, let alone future ones. Just see what happens in car industry: Fatter cars, more dirt, more consumption. There's really a market for that! Unbelievable. But it's also in IT: Fatter PCs, higher energy consumption, slower "overall usage speed" (see one of my previous posts for definition), higher TCO, faster "renewal". I simply can't imagine that this is what customers want. In many cases, customers do not even _know_ what they want, let alone what they really NEED. And here marketing and advertising enters the game: It tells them. > Heck, Blu-ray is currently > available and the 5D DVD with 10 terabytes, approximately 2000 times > the capacity o
Re: Tools to find "unlegal" files ( videos , music etc )
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 00:05:27 -0500, Ryan Coleman wrote: > Go to hell. He wants to rename the files that are illegal > to ones that aren't. It's not the file names that matter, it's the content. Just assume that students at a university use a file server to store pr0n although the terms of use prohibit doing so, in one way or another. Then a clever student renames a 650 MB movie to "My new essay 1.Doc". Although the file name does not look suspicious, the content is still illegal. With "illegal" in this context, a violation of the terms of use is meant. It doesn't neccessarily imply any copyright infingement, illegal copy, pirated copy or the like. Of course, if a student illegally downloads music and then names the tracks "My holiday 1.Jpeg", "My holiday 2.Jpeg", "My holiday 3.Jpeg" and so on - the files being MP3 files he pirated from somewhere - then you would in most countries definitely have a case as you described. But after all, it depends on country-specific laws on what's considered illegal in _whatever_ context. > That's circumventing copyright law and would land him or her > in jail. This topic, based solely on ethics, should not be > discussed as any suggestions that this is LEGAL to do supports > copyright violations. I think the question indicates the OP's struggle _against_ such actions. > I would record those names and DELETE them but only if the TOS > supports it. In most cases, TOS include certain permissions for IT operations staff to "maintain system healthcare" which traditionally includes a certain surveillance of user activity and file contents. > If it does not, then you get the DCMA notice and handle it > accordingly from the copyright holder. Applies to the U.S. only, correct? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 01:39:02 +0200, Jerome Herman wrote: > On 19/07/2011 01:21, Gary Gatten wrote: > > > > > > This may get me flamed (probably will) but I'm wondering what > > the relationship is between FreeBSD and PC-BSD? PERHAPS if > > they were to somehow join forces, share development load, etc. > > and "unify" the FreeBSD offerings under one roof; ie: PC-BSD and SERVER-BSD. > Basically, PC-BSD is just a layer of candy over an almost untouched > FreeBSD, so it is not the same at all than what you can see with Linux > distros. PC-BSD offers a new interactive installer, and comes with KDE preinstalled and preconfigured. There's also some autodetect magic under the hood. On sufficiently recent hardware, it works very well. However, its hardware requirements are _high_ above those of a "normal" FreeBSD system. > PC-BSD offers a graphical and simple installer, and an arguably easier > package system. As far as I know, the downside of the forced interactivity is now gone, as there's also a command line tool for using PBI packages. Arguing... what is easier at manually locating software using a web browser, manually downloading it and interactively holding the installer's hand while installing software? :-) > Also it installs KDE and automatically makes a few decisions. > You can actually just use the graphical installer in order to install a > standard FreeBSD, even if some tricky options won't be available from > the installer (but you can still run sysinstall later to activate them) The default installation works quite well, there's only few things you need to configure (especially if you're not comfortable with the default settings). I have some friends being long-term PC-BSD users, it's just no _my_ cup of tea as I don't like KDE much. > I personnally use it as an easy installer for Crypto-ZFS servers. The installer can even be used to install configurations that sysinstall can't. > > I believe several flavors of Linux have successfully done > > this. Perhaps for licensing reasons more than technical, > > but nonetheless there were two offerings each focused on > > either a desktop or server deployment strategy. But there are "mixed forms" of systems. Precisely differentiating between "a server" and "a PC" isn't always possible. For example, if you have a workstation that is used by more than one user, is this a PC, a _personal_ computer anymore? Or what if you use a laptop computer (maybe due to energy consumption) to act as a server, and once a week you use it as a desktop? > > Just a thought. I'm not married to any particular OS - > > it's a tool and I use what suites my needs best. I > > enjoy FreeBSD and like what it stands for - I would > > like to see it grow; both technically and in popularity. > > Well the PC-BSD layer gives a great installer, now the only thing needed > would be a great server/daemons management layer. And better german language support in KDE. :-) > A FreeBSD distro with LDAP, ACL and MAC management would be nice though. You could create a port that brings all this functionality in one rush. Remember that the ports collection is more than just about installing software - it can be used to even bring such features to the system and configure them. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 2020: Will BSD and Linux be relevant anymore?
ally BSD will be part of systems you "don't see", such as routing systems, firewalls, PBXs and so on - due to its licensing that allows free use (and even turning it into a proprietary product). Linux will also be the basis of the software used in mobile devices, as it it will be a platform for non-x86 systems that fit the needs of mobile computing much better. As people slowly start to realize that security is important, there will be "new chances" for Linux and BSD to provide what MICROS~1 has (intendedly) failed to deliver: Security you can rely on, by the fact that nothing is hidden (and can be used for "unofficial" purposes by governmental contracts). There are also interesting projects about a "High Security Server" (HSS) developed by a german security company. Especially in Cloud computing this will be important. http://www.osnews.com/story/24905/Interview_High_Security_Server Do you remember the fun when MICROS~1 + Telekom customers lost all their data in the Cloud years ago? :-) While I agree that Linux and BSD _may_ be irrelevant to the masses, it will be relevant to "non-conformers" (the real professionals) in 2020. Two years later, we'll be processed into Soylent Green anyway. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:20:29 +0200, Jerome Herman wrote: > On 19/07/2011 08:11, Polytropon wrote: > > Arguing... what is easier at manually locating software using > > a web browser, manually downloading it and interactively > > holding the installer's hand while installing software? :-) > Well, of course installing is easier. But package management is not just > about installing. Of course it's not _that_ simple. :-) > Rigid packages won't allow fine grained tweaking that you might need. In such cases, compiling from source seems to be the preferred method - which is still possible on PC-BSD, although it's often suggested to stay with PBI. > > You could create a port that brings all this functionality > > in one rush. Remember that the ports collection is more than > > just about installing software - it can be used to even > > bring such features to the system and configure them. > A port that would reboot in single user, use tunefs to activate ACL here > and there, activate MAC and move most users to an LDAP auth ? I don't > think so. > Actually I would be scared if such a port was accepted in the port tree. In fact, that would be dangerous - especially if used by people who have no clue about what they're doing. What I was refering to is the ability of a meta-port to install a selected mix of ports, apply configuration and provide templates for common configurations. Of course it's up to the admin to instantiate those new functionality on the system. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: compat directory
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:04:45 +0200, Dick Hoogendijk wrote:
> It may be a stupid question but my FreeBSD-8.2 system lacks a /compat
> directory. Is this normal? does it get installed through some kind of
> software package?
The compat directory entry in root usually is a symlink
to /usr/compat. It is created by sysinstall.
/usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/install.c around line 860:
Mkdir("/usr/compat");
vsystem("ln -s usr/compat /compat");
So it should be there when you've been using sysinstall
for system installation. If you've used a different tool
(or "no tool"), it may be the reason why it is missing.
--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Tools to find "unlegal" files ( videos , music etc )
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 12:54:38 +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > Delete the files from your file server, next they'll swap them on > external drives and USB keys. The only _working_ solution to get rid of the problem is to get rid of the files in question. :-) Maybe it's possible to change the terms of service so that files (e. g. from a specific size, say > 100 MB) are kept in temporary storage. This means: They can disappear at ANY moment. Produce that moment quite often, and users will put everything _you_ don't want on your server on _their_ personal storage (external disks, USB keys, Internet) - anywhere EXCEPT on your server, as they've learned that files tend to disappear. :-) It really depends on the kind of server, and who will be allowed to use it... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Tools to find "unlegal" files ( videos , music etc )
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:45:50 +0200, Damien Fleuriot wrote: > You claim that OP may lawfully open his users' private files. > Under your jurisdiction he might, under ours he shan't. A way around such a situation is to PROHIBIT the users (e. g. the employees of a company) to store private files on corporate servers, or even to do private web surfing during work time. You also often find regulations in office settings where the following policy is maintained: Workers _may_ use the web in a private manner for a time that definitely does _not_ keep them from working (i. e. an acceptable percentage), but they _will_ be monitored, e. g. by a proxy server that logs which sites are requested to make sure to track illegal use of corporate equipment (e. g. for illegal file sharing) can be tracked down to an INDIVIDUAL. It may also be possible that the screen of the user is monitored. Here in Germany, some companies, and also governmental installations do follow similar policies. The employee usually has to sign an agreement regarding this regulation. However, this does _not_ cover giving up privacy on matters that are under basic laws of freedom, both granted by the EU and (partially) acknowledged by the German state. With "partially" I mean things like this: ISPs and phone operators are caching _any_ connection data for a given time, as an agreement with the government. This is mainly intended for criminal investigation, and in such cases, the order of a judge is essentially required. However, history has taught many times that this mechanism is constantly abused, so nearly anybody with "substantial interests" (means: power and/or money) can get access to such data, even if the individuals getting into scope are NOT subject to any investigation. > OP may not open his users' private files without taking the following > precautionary steps: > > 1/ open the document in the employee's presence > or > 2/ formally inform the employee that his document will be opened I think the 2nd requirement can be encapsulated in terms of service? Just an assumption, not a claim! See my example at the beginning. > Under french jurisdiction, this can't be done. > > An employee is forbidden to encrypt work documents if the goal is to > prevent his employer from accessing them. Basically, the work an employee does is "owned by the employer", so _this_ is the level where rights may be granted (e. g. for data protection - a possilbe requirement). > However, said employee may encrypt his own private documents and his > company can cry a river, he can't be compelled to open said documents > unless by a court order. Correct - unless, of course, the employee is explicitely (!) prohibited to use / bring / access such stuff AT WORK. Such restrictions sometimes are part of the work contract. > >> The same way I just can't demand your driver's license unless I'm law > >> enforcement. > > > > Under some circumstances, I _can_. > > > > To wit: If you want to drive _my_ car, I most certainly can demand proof > > that you have a license. > > > > See above. > > My example, as understood by any sane person is: > > You can't come to me while I'm driving my own car in a public street and > ask that I prove: > 1/ ownership of the car > 2/ ability to drive (ownership of a driver's license) > > That is for law officials to ask, you're just a nobody in that respect. Just as an analogy: If you got trapped stealing in a shop, the owner of the shop may put you under temporary arrest. He may _not_ demand you to hand out an ID card or passport to him. Instead, he has to call the police who will ask you for your identity, and you'll have to prove it TO THEM. > There are things he will be able to do and others he won't, regarding > his users' files. Creating restrictions PRIOR to system access would be the preferred way, but it's quite hard to apply them afterwards. However, people should be clever enough... erm... well, maybe that's a bad beginning. Let me try again. :-) People should have learned that whenever they are using a device connected to the Internet, be it their own laptop or the desktop at work, NOTHING is private. And in worst case, "by accident" everything will open up. There are too many parts in the chain: Employer, admins, ISP, company that runs the datacenter, phone operator... and in the end, 1984 is TODAY. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Sendmail not accepting connections on port 25
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 00:03:58 -0700, ssgriffonuser wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm having difficulty getting sendmail set up on my server. I can send > and receive to localhost and I can send to external networks but I can > not receive from external networks (I receive a 550: Address rejected). > Netstat says sendmail is listening on port 25 but I cannot telnet to it. > When I do a port scan of the server, nmap does not show anything on port > 25 but does show smtp on 587. Do you have any options corresponding to port settings in /etc/rc.conf? Do you run a firewall and maybe port redirection? Do you have /etc/hosts set up properly? What does % telnet 25 in contradiction to % telnet 587 show? Are you sure your ISP isn't filtering anything "for your comfortability"? :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: printer - broadband router
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 11:55:02 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote: > On Wed, 20 Jul 2011, Franci Nabalanci wrote: > > > I am so sorry it was my mistake: the printer is HP Business inkjet 3000. > > That printer supports PCL and maybe even PostScript. Make sure it has > DNS. Entries in /etc/hosts should be adequate. Set it with a fixed IP > address or through DHCP. > > The rest is CUPS, which I don't use. You don't even have to use CUPS. PS is the default output for printing of _any_ application. In worst case, use gs as a simple filter that outputs PCL. Entry in /etc/printcap & done. (But also CUPS can generate PCL and direct it to a printer name that refers to the IP of the printer.) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Sendmail not accepting connections on port 25
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 22:34:26 -0400, Robert Huff wrote: > > ssgriffonuser writes: > > > > My isp is blocking outgoing traffic on port 25. > > > > Yeah, it looks like your right. I never would've considered my ISP > > blocking outbound traffic from my home, but I suppose it makes > > sense. Does _not_ make sense as it just hides symptoms, but does not cure the initial problem. > It is my understanding many I.S.P.s in the U,S, do, as part of > spam control procedures. I am obliged to relay through my I.S.P.; > after some initial set-up issues, this works flawlessly as long as > at least one relay machine is up. Same here - but different. Due to the fact that more than 90% of world's mail traffic is spam, many providers of mail services have the policy to _not_ accept mail coming from a "suspicious" IP. This is mostly ranges of dynamic IPs assigned to "dial-up" (home consumer) services, but may also contain other "blacklisted" IPs. In conclusion, you often have the situation that you can actually _send_ a message, but the target ISP's mail server will deny to accept it. The same way of "manipulating the symptoms", I relay my mail through my ISP's MX. Thanks to sendmail's SmartHost setting, this is easy once set up. In the mail logs, you can then see when messages are commited to the MX (you do _not_ see delivery status to target anymore). Blocking _outgoing_ "mail traffic" is also an interesting approach, so my initial guess "check if ISP is blocking something" was right... :-) The initial problem, the "creation" of spam, is mainly due to hijacked "Windows" PCs (and servers) in homes and offices (the larger the "better"). Most people who run an own mailserver, and even if it's just for outgoing mail, do this in a _proper_ way. Sadly, those have to suffer from the carelessness of the masses. Business as usual. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 2020: Will BSD and Linux be relevant anymore?
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 02:11:55 +0400, Subbsd wrote: > Hi > > On 7/19/11, Konrad Heuer wrote: > > To my mind we'll have to face a rapid > > change within the next years, and operating systems of the future might be > > Android or IOS or Windows Mobile or something similar which my base on > > Linux or BSD but are something different. > > For 2020 year here is nice sugesstions make HTML5/JS based DE for > FreeBSD and Co: > http://forums.freebsd.org/showthread.php?p=141286#post141286 ;) Those who develop for the upcoming "Windows 8" will be pleased: Seems as MICROS~1 representatives made a scary comment that HTML5/CSS/JS will be _the_ development plaform, obsoleting all its many predecessors that already forced developers to learn something new - and now THIS! :-) Julie Larson-Green's comment caused panic: "This is written with our new development platform, which is based on HTML5 and JavaScript [...] And so people can write new applications for Windows using the things that they, that they - are doing already on the internet." http://forums.silverlight.net/t/230502.aspx http://forums.silverlight.net/t/230725.aspx If you do further investigation, you'll see that it's not as scary as I pointed out here, but I simply love the pure imagination... :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:55:29 -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:21:31 -0600 > Chad Perrin articulated: > > > This is where we find a dividing line between users who want different > > things. Yes, you turn on your Win7 laptop (or wake it up) in a coffee > > shop, and it connects automagically -- in fact, you probably don't > > even realize it has connected. Hopefully it connected to the coffee > > shop's network, and not one of those occasional skimming networks that > > masquerade as coffe shop networks and exist to harvest login data and > > the like. The dividing line between two schools of thought on the > > matter in this example should be obvious. > > You do realize that all of that is configurable; ie, auto connect, > preferred network, etcetera. If you have not taken the time to read the > documentation and properly configure the wireless app correctly then > why bitch? I am not implying that it is perfect; however, given the > grave limitations that FreeBSD places on wireless connections; > specifically lack of drivers, and the inordinate amount of manual > intervention to accomplish what Microsoft and other OSs, (does the name > Ubuntu sound familiar) have achieved, it is readily apparent that the > FreeBSD implementation is trailing the pack. Want it like this? :-) --->http://xkcd.com/416/ But coming back on topic (partially): What's missing in my opinion is a system-provided user land program or script for interacting with the driver and the settings (as well as with "templates" for automated setup). There _are_ however tools provided by the "big ones" (the big desktop environments KDE, Gnome, maybe Xfce, haven't checked) to help configuring wireless adaptors. Of course this only applies where they are supported by the OS. A program I could imagine would be something like the ppp control program that other programs, typically GUI ones, could interface with, just as gmencoder interfaces with the incredible power of mencoder, or gmplayer adds lots of stuff at the GUI front to the one-size-fits-all fantastic mplayer. So all DEs or programmers who are interested in providing a setup tool could interface with that specific program. So they don't have to implement "low level things" on their own or even care for supporting particular adaptors. This tool could also be integrated in the FreeBSD startup system, and maybe even activated at pre-install time, so you could install via Internet, where Internet is provided by a wireless adaptor that got setup automatically. This would _also_ have the advantage of providing an abstraction layer that was OPTIONAL, and if you really need a better implementation (from a developer's point of view), you can still do it on your own, interfacing with the standard system means. Jerry, see this as an "I agree" in relation to your statement, given the comment that wireless isn't relevant to _me_ at the moment. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: build ports from not a root user?
On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 09:59:29 +0100, Mike Clarke wrote: > On Thursday 21 July 2011, Peter Vereshagin wrote: > > > As long as I saw the instructions on building from source they wre > > generally all like this: > > > > $ cd /tarball-expanded-0.x.y > > $ ./configure > > $ make > > $ su - > > # cd /tarball-expanded-0.x.y > > # make install > > > > That important 'su -' is omitted from the ports. And it is about the > > security. > > But this requires /usr/ports to be writable by the non-root user and > creates a security risk. This cannot be overcome by limiting the > installation to root only because you can no longer be sure that the > source or installation scripts have not been tampered with by a > non-privileged user. You could define specific port BUILDING directories outside /usr/ports, e. g. on a sufficiently sized and permitted /build partition that the non-root user can write to. However, this does _not_ solve the "problem" that root privileges are required to access INSTALL directories for the dependencies as well as for the final port you want to install. A "temporary pre-installation" doesn't sound possible, even if you define a different $PREFIX to make a per-one-user-localized installation. This seems to be obvious in regards of binaries that are required in further steps of building and installation, but even _more_ obvious in regards of libraries that the system linker has to be "notified" of. Giving /usr/ports _to_ the user (chown) or making a local copy of it (and adjusting the environmental variables for port infrastructure accordingly) does solve the first problem, but definitely not the second. (As it has been mentioned, doing this with /usr/src is a bit easier, where write access is especially needed for the /usr/obj "result" subtree. Only the installation of kernel and world need root access.) In the examples discussed regarding su, I often see: # cd /some/di/rec/to/ry # make something # su - # cd /some/di/rec/to/ry <=== Again! # make something else # exit The key is that "su -" may change the current directory as it does a full login. See "man su", especially the -m option which will leave the environment intact. Also see what su without parameters (or "su root") will do in comparison. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: How to sync a file on FreeBSD?
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 23:44:00 -0700 (PDT), Unga wrote:
> How to sync a file on FreeBSD (esp. on 8.1) to disk?
>
> I used fsync(2), but does not immediately flush to disk.
>
> I want my writing to a file (a log file) immediately
> available to other users to read.
Maybe you can use system("/bin/sync"); or sync(); in
your program?
Check "man 8 sync": "force completion of pending disk
writes (flush cache)" as well as "man 2 sync": "The
sync() system call forces a write of dirty (modified)
buffers in the block buffer cache out to disk."
Is this "immediately" enough for your needs?
--
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Re: 2020: Will BSD and Linux be relevant anymore?
On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:05:59 -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: > re: TeX and MS Word or OO.o Write > > TeX is a print formatting system. MS Word and OO.o Write are very poor > text editors with some very poor facsimiles of print formatting systems > built into them. (La)TeX is a professional typesetting system with excellent typographical features. The other ones are text processors (often also called word processors). Those are BELOW a typesetting system on the evolutionary ladder. (Good text editors are typically on the same level as the typesetting system they feed.) Some aspects: http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/wp.html (my favourite one!) http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/latex.html http://en.nothingisreal.com/wiki/Please_don't_send_me_Microsoft_Word_documents http://www.longleaf.net/ggrow/computerbad.html Sadly, most users don't even use those "low habits" program the wrong way... Microformatting, no difference between text functionality and layout (what it IS vs. what it LOOKS LIKE) and so on are just a few examples. Marco-bomb loaded files, binary blobs and outdated (and therefore incompatible) proprietary versions, as well as problems with interoperability are others. Welcome to digital medieval times. People now crying that LaTeX isn't a WYSIWYG: There's LyX for that. :-) Of course I don't want to enter a discussion of which tool is "the best", as this is nonsense. But it's worth mentioning that traditional word processors are often the _worst_ tool for what people use them in reality. Those people _require_ software that allows them to do even the stupidest, most inefficient and exaggerated idiotic things, and finally that's _also_ an aspect of freedom. > At this point, I think the market for such applications is essentially a > mass case of Stockholm Syndrome. The "market", often consisting of pirated copies, originates from the fact that users want "the same pictures" at home as they know them from work - and vice versa. > When someone fires up MS Office or OpenOffice.org just to write the > equivalent of a post-it note, there is something horribly, desperately > wrong with the way people use software. Of course. For creating post-it notes, you have to use "Powerpoint", and if it should have columns or boxes, use "Excel", moron! :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore
make its way into FreeBSD > from the Linux world, and it's why I said I'm okay with tools like > NetworkManager being released under restrictive licensing that makes it > less likely to be harvested for ideas by OS projects like FreeBSD. You already have "good" examples in the ports collection (see my examples above). Luckily, for doing that on OS level, it takes much more. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: How to sync a file on FreeBSD? [SOLVED]
On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:37:48 -0700, Michael Sierchio wrote: > This is extremely important, esp. with Softupdates, since fsync() does > not guarantee a flush of all buffers to the medium. But wouldn't sync() (see "man 2 sync") make sure that all buffers, even in regards to soft updates, get immediately flushed / written? > In order to > implement a stable queue, it would be best to use a different > filesystem. What type of filesystem would match those requirements? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Hi installing on windows dual boot
On Tue, 26 Jul 2011 11:06:57 +, Ganesh Khedkar wrote: > Hi all, > I am new to FreeBSD , just wanted to give one suggestion that , Ubuntu > linux have given one > Nice facility to user that they can easily install Ubuntu in windows and any > drive we want . > Even we can assign size to that drive . So cant we provide this facility > to our user . > So that people can experience freeBSD. Currently you cannot install FreeBSD from withing "Windows", if this is what you mean. FreeBSD is an operating system that needs to be booted _on_ the machine it should be installed to, as the installer requires that OS - just the same way you cannot simply "try" a "Windows" by installing it into, let's say... Solaris. :-) Hint 1: You need to install FreeBSD in order to use it. This is done by booting FreeBSD. However, you can "install" (i. e. use) a system image for a virtualisation software, e. g. for VMWare or VirtualPC. You can use the default installation approaches (from CD or DVD, from USB drive), or you can download a "turnkey" solution that provides a preinstalled and preconfigured system that you can run within "Windows" (using the VM solution). An example is VirtualBSD: http://www.virtualbsd.info/ Hint 2: You can use a VM solution. You can _easily_ install a dual-boot solution for FreeBSD and "Windows", but you have to do that from within the FreeBSD installer, as mentioned above. You can _also_ use PC-BSD to install a "normal" FreeBSD, as well as the PC-BSD operating system (derived from FreeBSD). This is also simple and easy. Find more info here: http://www.pcbsd.org/ Hint 3: Dual-booting is easy. :-) During _any_ of the installation methods mentioned, you can define the target drive and the size of your installation. Typically it is a hard disk, but it doesn't have to be. More information is provided by the FreeBSD Handbook and the FAQ, which you'll find here: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/ http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/faq/ FreeBSD provides excellent documentation that helps you to do the easy task of installation. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printr?
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 16:58:57 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > i have found an hp2025[x|n|dn] that looks goood since it has > cups suppport. > > do you//any of you see anythn wrong with the hp2025X?? Gary, if you CAN, make a checklist, and read it as "the more the better": [ ] printer has PCL [ ] printer has Postscript [ ] printer has network (often "N" suffix in name) Make sure _at least one_ can be checked. You should be fine then. There are _no_ other things that are _important_ if you want a good printer that ACTUALLY works. PS is the native output format for printing, so there is no need for CUPS (except "relaying" the data to the printer), and system's basic lp* tools are fully sufficient. PCL can be generated from PS by a single-line call to gs (the Ghostscript interpreter from ports). And if it has network, you can more easily access it - no need to put it directly next to the PC, and you can share the printer with other users in your house. The better HP models even have their own "lpr subsystem" built in, so the printing queue is "in the printer" and can be manipulated by the lp* tools "in the printer" instead of locally in the computer. Do not try to "save money" by cheap CRAP offers. If you have the chance, get a printer designed for office use. It will pay. I promise. :-) > ps: i did read that the brother only wsorks with lighteight > paper; another comlaint is that it goes thru toner very > fast. ... Oh god! Those are indications that it must be a real crappy consumer-targeted "printer" (quotes intended!). You should not waste money or time on such nonsense. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printr?
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 19:03:05 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote: > > ps: i did read that the brother only wsorks with lighteight > > paper; another comlaint is that it goes thru toner very > > fast. ... > > > > > > -- > > Try to use DRAFT option if it* exits :) There are often "eco" solutions that allow you to request less laser toner. Also "RET LIGHT/MED/DARK" can have an effect on toner consumption. It can traditionally be set through the printer's operator panel. > I do this at work so ink lasts more on the average. There is _no ink_ in a laser printer. If it was, it would be a problem. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: printing to a HP Deskjet 812C printer
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 20:05:12 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote: > @ all, > > I restarted machine and I can print from command line :) > > [olivares@quadcore ~/Documents]$ cat Document1.txt | lpr -P Deskjet > [olivares@quadcore ~/Documents]$ lpq -a > Deskjet: > Deskjet is ready and printing > Rank Owner Job Files Total Size > active olivares 2(standard input) 10405 bytes > > [olivares@quadcore ~/Documents]$ > > Now how do I configure apps like Firefox, evince, LibreOffice to print? No need to do that. Basically, the default options should be fine. However, _some_ programs require you to set paper format or margins. For actual _printing_, there is no need for any configuration. Programs will address the default printing queue (lp, or whatever $PRINTER says). If your printer is "Deskjet", add setenv PRINTER Deskjet to /etc/csh.cshrc for systemwide use (all users), or whatever your default shell is. You can also use login.conf to set this environmental variable. I suggest to do so because if _not_ done, you'd have to add "-P Deskjet" in too many places. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printr?
On Wed, 27 Jul 2011 18:21:56 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > hope my new printer lasts at least 6 years. You only have a chance with an office-class laser printer. Those are mostly a bit more expensive, HUGE :-) and come with network (see my checklist; having network is ABSOLUTELY NECCESSARY if you want to call something "office-class"). I have a HP Laserjet 4 which is almost 20 years old, and still working perfectly. The 4000d I'm currently using is also circa 10 years old. > i found variants of the hp2025FOO. There is the 2025dn, > the 2025x, and the 2025n. UNtil Robert mentioned it , i > never thought of googling for an individual printer. there > are a billion of them. They traditionally differ in "features" (the basic stuff like PS or PCL support, size of RAM, ability to add optinons like network, more paper trays, bigger paper trays, duplexers, output sorters and so on). Letters at the end often are in conjunction with "is for office", "is for home use only" and should be seen as a warning signal. :-) BTW, "for home home use" means that it doesn't work longer than 4 years. Nobody wants a printer _that_ old. :-) > bt i found it. and the ONLY > difference i can see is __One__. the cheap one is the "n"; > you have to by-hand set it to do duplex.the "dn" and the > "x" have "automatic" duplex handling. So then, what is non-automatic duplex handling, i. e. manual duplexing? Reloading the paper yourself? Well, then all non-duplex-able printers _are_ duplexing, it's just to be manually. :-) > interesting what > just a litte hunting can tell you. Yeah, postscript, pcl 5 > and 6. Excellent, should save you much trouble. And networking is also a fine feature, very handy, especially if you want to be able to print from more than one machine. USB simply isn't that smart. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: printing to a HP Deskjet 812C printer
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:57:08 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote: > Polytropon, > > Thank you for the suggestion. I am using bash as my shell. I have a > file ~/.bashrc with command in there and I get: > > > bash: setenv: command not found > > Of course. :-) The setenv command is specific to the C shell (FreeBSD's default dialog shell). In bash (and in sh too), you set an environmental vairable like this: export PRINTER="Deskjet" This is short for PRINTER="Deskjet" export PRINTER See "man bash" for details: "The supplied names are marked for automatic export to the environment of subsequently executed commands." - and so on. > Contents of ~/.bashrc are as follows: > / > > [olivares@quadcore /usr/home/olivares]$ cat .bashrc > # User specific environment and startup programs > setxkbmap -option compose:ralt & > setenv PRINTER Deskjet & I don't think you need to send any of them into background (&), as they should be processed "right away". For example, your ~/.bashrc could look like this: setxkbmap -option compose:ralt export PRINTER="Deskjet" Keep in mind that in _this_ case, $PRINTER is set for _your_ account only (which should be fine on a single- user system). However, if you set it up in /etc/csh.cshrc for system- wide use, user shells like bash should incorporate the setting. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: printing to a HP Deskjet 812C printer
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:34:46 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote:
> I have made the changes, but the printer does not print :(
You can always check
$ echo $PRINTER
which should give you the correct printer name, as
you did correctly show. Make sure upper/lowercase
matches exactly.
When you now use any lp* command, they should
refer to $PRINTER.
$ lpq
no entries
And as well:
$ lpr /etc/rc.conf
should print the specified file and place its entry
into the correct printer's queue.
> from firefox.
> I might ``try the /etc/csh.cshrc for system-
> wide use'' option :) and get back
In Firefox (at least here in the old 2.0.0.20_9,1 versio
as I _hardly_ use it), the printing dialog contains a
way to specify the printer directly (as some other
programs also do, but setting a printer name _for each
application_ just sounds wrong).
Go: File -> Print..., then Properties, where you'll
find Print Coommand:
lpr ${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME:+'-P'}${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME}
So you _could_ do some customization here - but it
sounds no good to do that. :-)
--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
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Re: printing to a HP Deskjet 812C printer
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:44:52 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote: > Made the changes with global /etc/csh.cshrc and it did not work :( Requires re-login, but reboot should also be fine. :-) On the root prompt which (I assume!) has the C shell as the default dialog shell, % echo $PRINTER or % printenv PRINTER should show the correct name. The lp* tools will then use it (if set). > [olivares@quadcore ~]$ cat /etc/csh.cshrc > # $FreeBSD: src/etc/csh.cshrc,v 1.3.56.1.6.1 2010/12/21 17:09:25 kensmith Exp > $ > # > # System-wide .cshrc file for csh(1). > > setenv PRINTER Deskjet I also have this in mine (although "Laserjet" is the name for the standard printer, and "Laserjet-nodup" for an "additional" printer without the duplexer). My login shell is the C shell. When I start bash from a csh prompt, I can also use the lp* commands, as $PRINTER will be "inherited". > But if I change lpr to lpr -P Deskjet, I can print. Then I will need > to play with it some more? Make sure the settings are in effect. According to the manpages and my experience (that it _does_ work this way) show that if $PRINTER is present, it will be used as the default -P parameter. It makes things easier. For example, _all_ printing does to the default printer. If a temporary change is needed, just set $PRINTER to a different value as long as you need it. If it's a "one time only" use, -P is definitely better. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: printing to a HP Deskjet 812C printer
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 11:06:47 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote: > On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 10:57 AM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 10:44:52 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote: > >> Made the changes with global /etc/csh.cshrc and it did not work :( > > > > Requires re-login, but reboot should also be fine. :-) > > Rebooted and firefox did not print :( Does it have some _overriding_ settings in its printer dialog? > Did not try these, as I reverted to .bashrc export PRINTER option. You said that bash's "echo $PRINTER" would show the correct name, so things should be fine. > This did work, the > $ lpr /etc/rc.conf > > [olivares@quadcore ~]$ echo $PRINTER > Deskjet > [olivares@quadcore ~]$ lpq > no entries > [olivares@quadcore ~]$ lpr /etc/rc.conf > [olivares@quadcore ~]$ lpq > Deskjet is ready and printing > Rank Owner Job Files Total Size > 1stolivares 6/etc/rc.conf 512 bytes > [olivares@quadcore ~]$ As it should be. The processing from "plain text" to whatever you need for the printer is done by the printer filter (e. g. ghostscript-based, apsfilter, CUPS, or something custom). > Firefox 5 does not have the properties option :( you mentioned. It > has File -> Page Setup, File -> Print Preview, File -> Print [General > -> Page Settings -> Options], but no properties to change printer > options :( Very strange. But then, Firefox should address the DEFAULT printer queue, which is the one $PRINTER points to. Maybe you can try to print from a different web browser, e. g. Opera, just for testing? > Thank you for the help, I am almost there, in fact I > can live with what I got :) There is a "workaround" for this, and the emphasize is on "work": You can have Firefox printing to a file instead to the $PRINTER. This file will be a postscript file. You can _then_ send this PS file (per lpr ) to the printer. :-) But I would really suggest to look into Firefox's settings. There must be something strange inside. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printr?
On Thu, 28 Jul 2011 09:00:56 -0700, Chip Camden wrote: > Quoth Matthew Seaman on Thursday, 28 July 2011: > > > > [*] Verb Sap. If you ever have the misfortune to get covered in toner, > > remember to wash in /cold/ water... > > That sounds like the /sapientia/ derived from /malus experientia/. No, /carpetum throwibus et garbagiae/. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Upgrading
On Fri, 29 Jul 2011 11:15:54 +0200, Jeffrey Everling wrote: > Dear sir/madam > > On my work I have a system which uses FreeBSD 6.3 as platform. > Now we want to upgrade to 8.2 but do we need to upgrade to 7.x first? > The update manual to 8.2 on the site does not mention 6.x Depends on HOW you want to upgrade. For the "go through" way, I would suggest to upgrade from 6 to 7, and from 7 to 8. If you can use binary updates (freebsd-update), you can do that. This way is often suggested. In case you want to upgrade by source, either "go through" as well as "go to" should be possible (e. g. use CVS or any preferred means to get 8.2's sources, then run the build and install process, and then upgrade your installed ports). However, if you _can_, you can do a "new install" with 8.2. This means you first back up your settings and user data (as you should already have a full backup of the system before starting _any_ upgrade work), then you install 8.2, for example from CD, and you also remove all installed ports. Have a list handy that states which ports you need, and after you successfully installed 8.2, install those ports "from scratch". After that, unload your user data and make the neccessary changes to the system and service configuration. Check everything (don't "just copy" settings), as some changes might have taken place. (I've used the last way described personally.) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: 8.2-RELEASE-amd64.iso weirdness (help!)
On Tue, 2 Aug 2011 18:06:06 -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > As another user mentioned elsewhere, the packages distributions are > beyond minimal, consisting only of some basic documentation in a > variety of locales or languages. No software packages at all. Since the documentation has been moved out of the regular system installation and turned into packages, this is now the normal behaviour. For adding packages, it's easy when you've booted your new system for the first time and got networking up and running. Then simply use "pkg_add -r " to add things. Decide if (and how) to use ports - they are often more convenient for maintaining the installed software. > Worse still, though, is what I ran across in the > partitioning/labeling/boot record section of sysinstall; no more > "dangerously dedicated" mode (unless you go into "expert" mode, which > is rather a mystery to me), [...] This functionality has also been removed. To install a system in a dedicated layout, you'll have to use the "basic tools" (e. g. fdisk and newfs, or partitioner of your choice). > [...] and worse yet, it seems that the options to > install a plain master boot record or boot manager have no effect > whatsoever! Can you be more specific on this? > The really crucial problem I'm facing right now is that I can't get > Linux's damned "grub" off of my hard drive! This should be easy by dd'ing the beginning of the hard disk with /dev/zero's. Otherwise, overwriting with FreeBSD's standard booting mechanisms should be possible too. > I was hoping that using > "dangerously dedicated" mode in sysinstall would allow me to overwrite > the lingering copy of grub on my hard drive that I just can't seem to > get rid of. No. The dedicated layout "happens" in "further" parts of the hard disk, as far as I remember. Try to clean the relevant parts of the disk using the Fixit shell first. > The FreeBSD install works for the most part, despite the > few oddities mentioned above, but when I try to boot into it afterwards, > grub seizes control and hangs with an error code. This indicates that it is still present - in a nonfunctional state. > I've tried numerous workarounds, using boot0cfg and both FreeBSD's and > Linux's fdisk and friends, but to no avail. I'm stymied at this point, > and desperately in need of some advice here. The boot0cfg would have been my suggestion too. There is also "fdisk -BI ", if you want to use that. To stay with the "old-fashioned tools", the next step in a manual install would be "bsdlabel -w -B ", and then "bsdlabel -e " to add the partitions you want. Anyway, sysinstall should be able to do that for you. I have to admit that I'm still using this method for maximum compatibility, and I even tend to use sysinstall because I'm lazy. :-) In the slice editor, remove everything. Then add one FreeBSD slice for the whole disk. Add a standard MBR so booting gets you directly into FreeBSD. Then use the partition editor to add /, swap, /tmp, /var, /usr, /home and anything you like. > Can some sage person out there help me out of this predicament? Right > now I feel like I'm doomed to keep running Linux or nothing at all! I > am dying to get back to FreeBSD again. First try to use dd to clean the beginning of the hard disk. In _worst_ case, clean the whole disk. Then start sysinstall as usual (and as explained in the Handbook). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Fw: 8.2-RELEASE-amd64.iso weirdness (help!)
k online, post questions, do further investigation, etc. > Very time-consuming. Dual-booting (or secondary system) would be good in this case. But dual-booting can also lead to strange observations (as you described). > By the way, I'm just wondering, how long have you been using FreeBSD, > and do you like the way it's been evolving since you started? I'm using it since version 4.0 both for servers and for my home desktop (exclusively). Other systems I use are OpenBSD and Solaris. From time to time, I try some Linux, see that it's not my cup of tea, and move on. :-) The development of OS and the constantly good quality impress me at every release. On the same system, the OS boots faster each time it gets updated. Sadly, the installed applications do a "good" job of "compensation", so keeping the same hardware, things tend to run slower. But that is not FreeBSD's fault. Many comfortable tools are now part of the base system, like a CVS program, a binary system updater, or a program to fetch up-to-date ports/ subtrees. This makes building systems "from scratch" more easy. So for the OS, I have no complains, except the one that it doesn't identify my Sun USB keyboard properly since after version 5 (6 not tested, 7 missing identification string, but it WORKS without problems). For the removal of the dedicated mode from sysinstall: It seems that this mode is hardly used, and other operating systems may feel threatened by not being able to play with a dedicated disk (that's why the misleading prefix "dangerously"?), so using this approach has been moved to the "very professional" area of the installer, which is the pure command line. But as sysinstall is going to be deprecated anyway in favour of a new installer that also will surely provide GPT and ZFS installation dialogs, MAYBE the dedicated mode comes back as a valid choice because - what's wrong about using it? (NB those are just _my_ very individual impressions, but I hope it's okay to share them on-list.) > I was > madly in love with FreeBSD (and still am, if I could just get it > running again) before I bought this machine and had to abandon it > because it wouldn't properly detect either my CD-ROM or my hard drive. > You can imagine what a disappointment *that* was! I can - disk and optical drives are considered basics. I know it would be too much to require the system to properly detect any proprietary and broken-by-design piece of cheap commodity hardware from the home consumer crap sector. :-) > Thanks for replying to my post. I do appreciate it very much. I'll > let you know if I ever do manage to get anywhere with this problem. Try the sysctl and then dd. Wipe the MBR first, and to be sure, add some MB of /dev/zero's. In worst case, consult your mainboard's documentation to make sure the numbers are _not_ BIOS status "messages". -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: printing to Kyocera FS-1030D
On Wed, 3 Aug 2011 20:18:53 +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > So, what? If you can only print PCL, just raster the Postscript file > with ghostscript to PCL (using CUPS, this also can be done on the fly); Why the emphasize of CUPS? Even printer filter collections like apsfilter are "too fat" for that job. If I want to get a nail into the wall, I don't hammer it with the tool box. :-) In fact, apsfilter just uses gs with some parameters to turn PS - the _default_ printing output format - into PCL. You can install the ghostscript port (gs) and then add a very simple gs filter. It can be activated in /etc/printcap, pointing to that filter script. Here's an example of what such a filter can do (in my case: for a HP Laserjet 4000 duplex in PCL mode for two-sided priting): gs -q -dBATCH -dFIXEDMEDIA -dPARANOIDSAFER -dQUIET \ -dNOPAUSE -sDEVICE=ijs -sIjsServer=hpijs \ -sDeviceManufacturer="HEWLETT-PACKARD" \ -sDeviceModel="HP LaserJet" -dDuplex=true \ -dIjsUseOutputFD -sPAPERSIZE=a4 -r600 The corresponding /etc/printcap entry is this: Laserjet|ljet4d;r=600x600;q=high;c=full;p=a4;m=auto:\ :lp=/dev/lpt0:\ :if=/usr/local/etc/apsfilter/basedir/bin/apsfilter:\ :sd=/var/spool/lpd/Laserjet:\ :lf=/var/spool/lpd/Laserjet/log:\ :af=/var/spool/lpd/Laserjet/acct:\ :mx#0:\ :sh: (And: Yes, it's a parallel attached printer in fact.) You can easily deduct what the certain parameters do. In fact, apsfilter doesn't do much more, although it has a "pretty printing pre-filter" that allows you tricks like % lpr somepicture.png or even % lpr foo/bar/bla.c with "syntax highlighting" in the output, if you need. For printing from within X, _any_ program, be it OpenOffice or an image processing tool, accessing the proper printer queue is fully sufficient. Keep in mind that _some_ programs require you to check printer settings (like Gimp for example) for format and resolution. > > > > # cat |lpr -Plp > > To the OP: You won the todays "Useless Use of Cat Award" :-) > The same would do: > > lpr -Plp < ps-file > or > lpr -Plp ps-file > > :-) Just in case "lp" is still your default printer queue name (no $PRINTER set to override), -Plp can also be omitted. Useless use of -Plp, because that's the default. :-) When you _can_, set the printer to PS mode. It's the easiest thing. You just need the system's (!) lpr subsystem to feed the PS jobs into the printer. If PS is not possible, use PCL. If you really, REALLY require features of the printer that need to be addressed by the PPD mechanism, use CUPS, even if I can't imagine such features (because gs lets you address things like paper tray preference, duplexer and so on through PCL commands). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: semi-OT: Looking for a hosting provider w/ FreeBSD root-servers
On Thu, 4 Aug 2011 08:56:08 +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: > > Hello, > > I have to change my hosting provider, because the actual one does > not want to fullfill my needs. I'm looking for a provider offering > FreeBSD root-servers, best in Europe. Any pointers are wellcome. How about Hetzner? They support FreeBSD and also offer root servers. http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/produkte_rootserver/ Check out the "Dedicated Server" offers on the left of the page. Something you're searching for? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Alternative windowmanagers
On Fri, 5 Aug 2011 21:12:14 +0200, Christian Barthel wrote: > As a Gnome 2.3x user too, I am also a bit nervouse. Gnome 3 is a big > mistake. And there are also rumors that Gnome will be Linux only. Xfce is said to be, too. :-) > I am not very interested in eyecandy: I want a stable and fast wm (less > memory and cpu, quick access to important places), different workspaces, > and it should be configurable with ordinary files. Of course, It must > run under FreeBSD. > > [...] > > Are there any other window manager worth looking? > > What is your window manager? I'm primarily using WindowMaker. It has excellent and programmabe keyboard support. Its configuration can be done on file level, even though it's not _that_ easy. It has lots of useful features and runs very fast and stable. It does _not_ come with crap built in. Alternatives worth mentioning are IceWM and XFCE 3 (_not_ the new Xfce, the "old" one that mimics CDE). Those may be good if you like the "classic" way. Also fvwm2 is highly configurable and has good keyboard support. It's especially efficient on screens of smaller sizes. All of them are predictable, unlike many "modern" concepts... Because the magic of tiling window managers didn't open up to me yet, I can't comment on them, but I'm sure many professional users do actively use them, as after a bit of learning and practicing, those are said to be more comfortable than the "common" windowing solutions that urgently need to "entertain" you. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: extracting text from docx files
On Tue, 9 Aug 2011 21:16:11 +0200, Christian Barthel wrote: > On Tue, Aug 09, 2011 at 02:36:32PM +0100, Anton Shterenlikht wrote: > > I often receive information in *.docx format > > from my MS using colleagues. Sometimes I can > > ask for a pdf (or similar) instead, but not always. > > You have a lot of nice options: > - Force them to use BSD/Linux ;) > - explain them, why docx is shit! > - don't read it I also suggest to combine this with reading the following article: http://en.nothingisreal.com/wiki/Please_don't_send_me_Microsoft_Word_documents It's very polite and precise about why using "DOC" files is generally a bad idea. It can be easily concluded that it also applies to "DOCX" files. The document also discusses alternatives. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: files/dd7c394c9c9ddf4b97f1b14c676f370adc259b2c7a4b8346eba0788a431db398.gz not found -- snapshot corrupt.
On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:46:37 +0200, Hartmann, O. wrote: > Since today, I can not update my ports tree due to this error as follows. > This happens on all boxes running FreeBSD, the version of the OS (FBSD > 8.2/9.0) doesn't > matter. What's up with the ports collection? You're using portsnap? What if you try to update per CVS? > /usr/ports/devel/cdash/ > files/dd7c394c9c9ddf4b97f1b14c676f370adc259b2c7a4b8346eba0788a431db398.gz not > found -- snapshot corrupt. I think this last message got a bit de-arranged by quoting. The file with the long name belongs to /usr/ports/devel/cdash/files/ as it seems, but that doesn't exist (at least not on my local ports tree). A "cdash" port doesn't exist in the whole ports tree. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: library with click built-in?
On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 12:27:48 -0700, Gary Kline wrote:
> I only use my FreeBSD computer as a server; it isn't even hooked
> up to my speakers, so there is no way of testing anything i write
> that involves sound. So does anybody know if any other toolkit
> outputs audio?
There are two means:
The first one is the echoing of the ^G (BEL) character, 0x07
which is handled by the text mode console or terminal emulators
like xterm. In X, the sound that will be produced can be
controlled with a xset setting.
xset [-b] [b {on|off}] [b [volume [pitch [duration
See "man xset" for details.
The other one is the system speaker. If you have "device speaker"
in your kernel, you can access /dev/speaker (if the permissions
are set properly, see /etc/devfs.conf for an example. Using
the "note language" known from several BASIC dialects for
microcomputers, you can easily create sounds for that. A list
of the "note language" is in "man 4 speaker".
Here's a small example:
#!/bin/sh
read -p "CW ===> " TEXT
echo ${TEXT} | morse | awk '{
if(length($0) == 0)
printf("P4\n");
else {
gsub(" dit", "P32L32E", $0);
gsub(" di", "P32L32E", $0);
gsub(" dah", "P32L8E", $0);
printf("%sP16\n", $0);
}
}' | dd bs=256 of=/dev/speaker > /dev/null 2>&1
NB: The timing is slightly out of proper relation. :-)
--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
___
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Re: Don't understand df/du output
On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 23:58:12 +0200, Alain AUDEBERT aka 2A wrote: > Hello list, > > I having a problem to understand the output of du and df command : > > [root@ftp ~]# df -h /opt/ > FilesystemSizeUsed Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/xbd6 387G342G 13G96%/opt > > [root@ftp ~]# du -sh /opt/ > 342G/opt/ > > But 387Go - 342Go not equal to 13Go ! Where's the available space ? > (same thing with df -k) > > I have try a tunefs -m 1 /dev/xbd6, unmount, mount and nothing change > Is it the 8% reserved by FFS ? See: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/faq/disks.html#DU-VS-DF -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: library with click built-in?
On Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:02:24 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > thanks. i have _never_ heard the BEL inmy version of > ubuntu. my server is a 2-proc dell, too cheap to > have a real spkr; it does beep [bbarely] thanks to some kind > of piezo gimmick. but no speaker connections. This is typical for today's hardware. In some cases, it's possible to remove the piezo "speaker" and attach a regular one, but this _might_ kill something on the mainboard, so it's not adviced. In worst case, it should be possible to get the signal and put it through a simple amplifier (e. g. an A210, but that's too much work for just a beep). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: library with click built-in?
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 09:14:16 -0700, Gary Kline wrote: > yep; that's hy i wat to know how to use the gtk stuff! If I remember correctly, this is the "esound" component used by Gtk. I don't know if it has its own sound sub- system, and in how far it's even possible to generate tones from a description of frequency + duration. It requires a sound card that FreeBSD's drivers can properly access. My first own sound card, the Logitech SnoundMan 16, had an interesting feature: The PC speaker sound was put as an input channel for the sound card mixer. I have no idea how this worked, as the sound card was a typical 16 bit ISA expansion card, and there was no wired connection from the PC speaker to the sound card. However, when the speaker was removend and addressed - e. g. by ^G = BEL or a sound output command such as sound(1000); delay(500); nosound(); - the sound could be heared through the speakers (or amplifier) attached to the sound card. Maybe something similar is still possible today? In this case, addressing the PC speaker, even if it's just a little piezo speaker (or not present) would cause an input to the sound card? This would combine the easy method of generating simple sounds with the ability to use whatever one wants to connect to the sound card (builtin speakers, headphones, speakers or amplifier). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
System lockups in X with nVidia GeForce 7600 GS (G73) and Gtk+
cisely has he done so? Is there an explaination of the lockups (always only in relation to Gtk+ triggering it)? Does it indicate a defective driver or a defective hardware? What do you think? I have _never_ encountered such kind of problems yet, so I'm almost out of ideas. Sadly I can't check with my (wonderfully working) ATI card because this one is AGP, but the mainboard only has PCIe. Any ideas and instructions, as well as diagnosis-guessing is very welcome. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: System lockups in X with nVidia GeForce 7600 GS (G73) and Gtk+
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 03:55:20 +0100, Frank Shute wrote: > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 03:22:06AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: > > Has anyone got the "nouveau" driver working, and if, > > how precisely has he done so? > > Yes. I got it working once by following the package instructions but > on a subsequent system upgrade it stopped working and all my efforts > to get it working again have been unsuccessful. The instructions in the pkg-message seem to be incomplete (in comparison to what I read in the article. > > Is there an explaination of the lockups (always only > > in relation to Gtk+ triggering it)? Does it indicate > > a defective driver or a defective hardware? What do > > you think? > > It doesn't seem to make sense. Have you got something missing/added to > xorg.conf that's causing it? My xorg.conf looks quite like yours. I am not using HAL (compiled X without that). Monitor attached is a 21" CRT. The xorg.conf has been autogenerated and then trimmed. Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Layout0" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Mouse0""CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" # Option "SingleCard""true" EndSection Section "ServerFlags" Option "DontVTSwitch" "false" Option "DontZap" "false" Option "DontZoom" "false" # Option "Xinerama" "false" # Option "AIGLX" "true" EndSection Section "Files" ModulePath "/usr/local/lib/xorg/modules" FontPath"/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/misc/" FontPath"/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/TTF/" FontPath"/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/OTF" FontPath"/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/" FontPath"/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" FontPath"/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/" FontPath"/usr/local/share/ghostscript/fonts/" # FontPath"/usr/local/share/fonts/amspsfont/type1/" # FontPath"/usr/local/share/fonts/cmpsfont/type1/" # FontPath"/usr/local/lib/X11/fonts/truetype/" EndSection Section "Module" Load"extmod" Load"record" Load"dbe" Load"glx" Load"dri" Load"dri2" Load"freetype" Load"type1" EndSection Section "DRI" Mode0666 EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "kbd" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "de" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "auto" Option "Device""/dev/sysmouse" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "true" Option "EmulateWheel" "true" Option "EmulateWheelButton""2" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Eizo" ModelName "FlexScan F980" HorizSync 30.0 - 137.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - 160.0 Option "DPMS" "false" Option "PreferredMode" "1152x864" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Card0" # Driver "nouveau" Driver "nv" VendorName "nVidia Corporation" BoardName "G73 [GeForce 7600 GS]" BusID "PCI:2:0:0" Screen 0 EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth24 Option "Accel" SubSection "Display"
Re: System lockups in X with nVidia GeForce 7600 GS (G73) and Gtk+
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:38:59 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote: > On Sun, 14 Aug 2011, Polytropon wrote: > > > PS. Looking at your xorg.conf, maybe the reason why I > >can't do Ctrl+Alt+Backspace anymore is that DontZap > >belongs to ServerLayout, not to ServerFlags - I'll > >quickly check that. > > xorg.conf(5) says about ServerFlags: > >Options specified in this section (with the exception of the >"Default-ServerLayout" Option) may be overridden by Options specified >in the active ServerLayout section. > > In general, ServerFlags is unnecessary. Just put the options in > ServerLayout. Done that, but Ctrl+Alt+Backspace still doesn't work. > DontZap defaults to off now, but the key sequence has to be set, like > setxkbmap -option terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp > > or > > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Keyboard0" > Driver "kbd" > Option "XkbOptions" "terminate:ctrl_alt_bksp" > EndSection I'll try on next X startup. Meanwhile, I got the "nvidia" driver compiled, installed and running. Tests like % xlock -nolock -mode lament or % xlock -nolock -mode fire show the FPS rate I've expected (no comparison to the 3 fps I got with "nv"). In "gears" there are > 5000 FPS, that's _magnitudes_ better than with "nv". But my text font in Sylpheed as well as the one used in intclock is not a bit damaged (just chose a different one in Sylpheed so I can see what I'm currently typing). The next thing I have to try is triggering the system freeze by using any Gtk+ application. :-) I'd like to point out that the nvidia driver comes with nice documentation: /usr/local/share/doc/NVIDIA_GLX-1.0/README contains lots of great stuff. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: System lockups in X with nVidia GeForce 7600 GS (G73) and Gtk+
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 22:12:26 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote: > I have nouveau working but for another card: > > vgapci0@pci0:1:0:0: class=0x03 card=0x82781043 chip=0x06e410de > rev=0xa1 hdr=0x00 > vendor = 'NVIDIA Corporation' > device = 'NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS (G98)' > class = display > subclass = VGA > > [olivares@quadcore ~]$ cat /var/log/Xorg.0.log | grep 'nouveau' > (II) LoadModule: "nouveau" > (II) Loading /usr/local/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nouveau_drv.so > (II) Module nouveau: vendor="X.Org Foundation" > [drm] failed to load kernel module "nouveau" Do you still have the commands that successfully brought you there? > > It complains about xorg-server must be >= 1.8, but > > only 1.7.7 is in latest ports (right now). This is > > step 4 on the list. Note that it's "./autogen.sh", > > not "./autogen" as in the article. > > This would explain it :( The xorg-server is at 1.7.7, I questioned > myself why xf86-driver-nouveau is from 2009 :(, and in Fedora it is > just old and these guys keep churning and churning new & updated > drivers :( What I don't understand is how a port that's more than one year old can require a X server version that's not reached yet _today_... :-) > The folks recommended me to get nvidia driver, but I get: > > quadcore# pwd > /usr/ports/x11/nvidia-driver > quadcore# make install clean > ===> Building for nvidia-driver-270.41.19 > ===> src (all) > "/usr/share/mk/bsd.kmod.mk", line 12: "can't find kernel source tree" > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/ports/x11/nvidia-driver/work/NVIDIA-FreeBSD-x86_64-270.41.19. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/ports/x11/nvidia-driver. > *** Error code 1 > > Stop in /usr/ports/x11/nvidia-driver. Just tried, and it compiled quick and nice. It also seems to run very good, and 3D is also at a sufficient rate (see my other reply to the list). In your case - it seems that you don't have the kernel sources installed? Populate your /usr/src tree via CVS (csup) or from the installation media in case you're using a -RELEASE system. The subtree for the kernel is /usr/src/sys. > The folks recommend it to me because of some additional things, lower > CPU usage, better 3D stuff & other good things I'm looking forward to be able to play my (today "old fashioned") Linux and wine-powered 3D games. :-) Next thing will be dual screen. I have to try that in order to form an opinion if this is just silly nonsense or helpful for my individual productivity. > Some folks say that it is the recommended thing to do, is to install > nvidia drivers. As I have (hopefully correctly) understood from the documentation of the "nv" driver, this one is only for 2D. With the present incorporation of 3D stuff into "simple" desktop applications this might be worth considering. PS. Ctrl+Alt+Backspace now works. I'm always "impressed" how much work it takes to _transform_ functionality that one takes for granted with all the old software into their "modern" continuations... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: System lockups in X with nVidia GeForce 7600 GS (G73) and Gtk+
On Sat, 13 Aug 2011 23:15:52 -0500, Antonio Olivares wrote: > I just > # cd /ports/x11-drivers/xf86-drivers-nouveau/ > # make install clean > > # Xorg -configure > tested the screen, then ran > # cp /root/xorg.conf.net /etc/X11/xorg.conf > # sed -i "" 's|nv|nouveau|g' /etc/X11/xorg.conf > > restarted machine and I have nouveau working fine. Nothing more? I mean kernel modules & stuff? > I had a problem when playing a movie with mplayer, the movie did not > fill the entire screen when I typed 'f' or used -fs options. I > corrected this by adding to > ~/.mplayer/config > > zoom="YES" > > and it worked :) An important feature, thanks for the clue! > I was going to try and get the kernel sources to > successfully install nvidia, but why go through that hassle if it is > now working like I wanted it to work. Mayvbe you can check the 3D abilities with the commands I mentioned. Meanwhile, I was a brave man and launched Firefox. Three seconds later the system froze. Furthermore, I've lost my ~/.sylpheed/accountrc and folderlist.xml which I had to restore manually. Lost: Indications which messages I already had replied to. So again, Gtk+ triggers the system freeze, independent of the driver used. Now can I say that the GPU must be faulty? And just in case I have to replace it (PCIe required), what brand of GPU should I buy instead? Again nVidia, or better ATI, or Intel? It's a hard decision because I don't want to get from one trouble into the next one... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Installing and using wine on amd64
In order to restore functionality that my old system provided almost 10 years ago (I checked when I bought it!), I'm currently trying to get wine working. Sadly, its Makefile states: ONLY_FOR_ARCHS=i386 I've done some research and found lots of posts several years old that suggest that using wine on AMD64 is not possible or requires binary packages that don't exist, and even if one can install it, it doesn't run. Has this situation improved meanwhile? Does anyone have a recipe on how to get wine running? Current system is 8.2-STABLE/amd64. Should I better re-install everything (Intel Core2 4300 1.80GHz / 1799.81-MHz K8-class CPU here, and 2 GB RAM, that's why the AMD64 choice) and use i386 instead? And maybe fix Gtk+ triggered GPU trouble that way? :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Installing and using wine on amd64
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:32:54 -0500, Andre Goree wrote: > This worked out for me when I was in the same predicament a few days > ago: http://www.mediafire.com/wine_fbsd64 Thank you, I've just rriet it. Pre-installation tasks are easy (implied that I did everything correctly), but then, make and python are in the state "pfault" and the system becomes very sluggish. Here some of the messages, repeated many times: # make [...] "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 5439: warning: duplicate script for target "package-depends" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 5442: warning: duplicate script for target "actual-package-depends" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 5449: warning: duplicate script for target "package-recursive" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 5459: warning: duplicate script for target "missing" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 5513: warning: duplicate script for target "www-site" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 5529: warning: duplicate script for target "/usr/ports/emulators/wine/README.html" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 5545: warning: duplicate script for target "/usr/ports/emulators/wine/README.html" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 5672: warning: duplicate script for target "/usr/ports/emulators/wine/work/.PLIST.mktmp" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 6159: warning: duplicate script for target "desktop-categories" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 6231: warning: duplicate script for target "check-desktop-entries" ignored "/usr/ports/emulators/wine/../wine/Makefile", line 181: warning: duplicate script for target "pre-build" ignored "/usr/ports/emulators/wine/../wine/Makefile", line 190: warning: duplicate script for target "post-install" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 2796: warning: duplicate script for target "master-sites-ALL" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 2798: warning: duplicate script for target "patch-sites-ALL" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 2801: warning: duplicate script for target "master-sites-DEFAULT" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 2803: warning: duplicate script for target "patch-sites-DEFAULT" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk", line 3220: warning: duplicate script for target "ignorelist-verbose" ignored [...] "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.licenses.mk", line 563: warning: duplicate script for target "check-license" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.licenses.mk", line 724: warning: duplicate script for target "/usr/ports/emulators/wine/work/.license_done.wine._usr_local" ignored "/usr/ports/Mk/bsd.licenses.mk", line 756: warning: duplicate script for target "install-license" ignored [...] swap_pager_getswapspace(16): failed [...] Aug 14 23:44:37 r56 kernel: pid 62075 (make), uid 0, was killed: out of swap space Killed There are many of the "swap_pager_getswapspace(16): failed" messages before the whole process stops. Any idea what could be wrong here, or is this expected? My system has 2 GB RAM and a 2 GB swap partition. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Installing and using wine on amd64
On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 23:42:04 +0200, Roland Smith wrote: > There is someone who makes packages for wine on amd64. See > http://people.freebsd.org/~ivoras/wine/ Thanks, this did help. I was able to install this package, but then had to manually install wine-gecko. After changing $PACKAGESITE to the i386 location for latest 8-STABLE, it was possible, and wine is running. I'll now see if it fits my simple needs. > Otherwise, with only 2 GB RAM [...] Oh ONLY! :-) > [...] I don't think there is much gained by using > amd64. Unless your particular applications are faster on amd64. I'm not sure, this is a simple home desktop, doing web browsing, hopefully some gaming later on, a bit of multimedia and of course application development, so I'm not depending on anything AMD64-specific, if I see this correctly. > > And maybe fix Gtk+ triggered GPU trouble that way? :-) > > Could be. Even though my new system feels much faster, fine-tuning and repeated repeatative repeatition problem, i. e. re-installing from scratch is a always something I try to avoid. But maybe it's worth doing so - I'll keep it in mind. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Installing and using wine on amd64
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 09:37:06 +0200, Christian Barthel wrote: > I don't understand why you have chosen AMD64? You only have 2 GB memory, > which can be adressed under i386 too and you can avoid a lot of > problems. Reason: The i386 platform is obsoleted, and there will be less and less targets to install on. Furthermore, I though it would be good to use AMD64 because if the CPU. I know the ridiculous amount of 2 GB RAM is rather small. :-) > Today, I am not quite sure about AMD64 because with PAE ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#FreeBSD), > you have a far better opportunity to address memory above 4 GB. With the present and upcoming problems, I currently really consider reinstalling the whole system. It's not _that_ problematic as it is sufficiently fast. It's also a nice learning experience. You _can't_ imagine the amount of things that stopped working. :-) > All in all, your system, your rules ;) My system, my mistakes. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Installing and using wine on amd64
On Mon, 15 Aug 2011 18:04:53 +1000, Ashley Williams wrote: > >> I've done some research and found lots of posts several years > >> old that suggest that using wine on AMD64 is not possible or > >> requires binary packages that don't exist, and even if one can > >> install it, it doesn't run. > >> > >> Has this situation improved meanwhile? Does anyone have a > >> recipe on how to get wine running? > > You can get wine running on AMD64, see the following wiki link: > > http://wiki.freebsd.org/Wine#head-6963d527c173e57b1567e881305b544d33435b6d Thanks, I now got it working, the only remaining problems is that the programs I intend to run (older than 5 years, maybe even 10) have problems with "DirectX" stuff which I am supposed to manually install... -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: single user login
On Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:38:36 +0200, Ruben de Groot wrote: > I don't recall there was a boot loader menu in FreeBSD 4.x > Just interupt boot by pressing a key, giving you the OK prompt. Then boot -s > to go to single user mode (if that's what you want) Correct. I think the "Beatie menu" appeared in the 5.X branch of FreeBSD. It can still be disabled (by means of loader.conf), so the default action to interrupt after the 1st boot stage is still a valid method. If you interrrupted too early, just pressing Enter for the defaults is okay: POST finished... [space][space][space][space] boot: [Enter] [space][space][space][space] Ok boot -s <- this starts into single user mode In case there console is not marked as "insecure", there won't be any further password requests and you'll successfully reach a root prompt: # _ -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: new to os
On Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:18:09 -0700 (PDT), scott mcclellan wrote: > I'm looking to try something different with my machine (or > maybe I'm going through a midlife crisis). Pick FreeBSD as an OS, it will be a benefit for your UNIX skills and your productivity, as well as for your opinion about learning in general. :-) > Currently run Wimdows (point and click), and would like to > gravitate back to DOS (this is a thing of the ancient past > for me 30 years - on a TRS-80). I know remember extremely > little of OS vernacular. Oh you mean _that_ DOS, not the real DOS which is much older than 30 years, even older than me! :-) Furthermore, I always thought the TRS-80 ran CP/M, not DOS, but I could be wrong as I (1st) didn't do any research on it (first sin!) and (2nd) don't own one so I could check. > Am I biting off more than I can chew, or is there a OS > commands for dummies out there, or does FreeBSD have such a > critter that one can go through. FreeBSD allows you to run PC emulators that you can install and run DOS on. Furthermore, there's the doscmd port. Have a look at the content of /usr/ports/emulators and see what fits your needs. The traditional command line interpreters in DOS, e. g. COMMAND.COM, as well as the binaries itself give you some help. A system with better documentation is Norton's NDOS, which has also a more flexible command line interpreter, still being fully compatible. There are even free DOS operating systems that you can run by a means that FreeBSD provides as a "host OS". > I'll pour through the FAQ and got hrough the online manuals > for now. But it all seems greek. Can someone point me in a > diresction to degreek this stuff for me. If you can be more specific, using a more precise question? At this point, it's mostly guess work, at least to me. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: A quality operating system
with allquantified statements. According to simple logic, one counter-example is sufficient to prove the falseness of the statement. :-) > As Ron detailed, huge parts of FreeBSD are like buried land > mines just waiting to detonate. I'd be interested in knowing _what_ actually those are. > (7) Disorganized website. > > The part of the FreeBSD project that should set the tone for the > community, the FreeBSD website, reflects every one of these > criticisms. It is inconsistent and often disorganized; there is no > clear path; resources are duplicated and squirreled away instead of > organized and made into a process for others to follow. It is arcane, > nuanced and cryptic for the purpose of keeping the community elitist, > hobbyist and hostile to outsiders. Definitely not _my_ interpretation of the website. > You alienate users and place the burden upon them to sort through your > mess, then sneer at them. Er... what? > You alienate business, professional and artistic users with your > insistence on hobbyism. Tell it to those who run a business with FreeBSD. :-) > Even when you get big parts of the operating system correct, it's the > thousand little details that have been forgotten, ignored or snootily > written off that add up to many hours of frustration for the end user. After all, it's about time, and this often is reflected in the world of money. An OS project like FreeBSD that is not primarily about making money or gaining market share does have other fields where work is invested. Aggressive marketing, for example, is not one of them. > Sadly, Ron is right. FreeBSD is not right for us, or any others who > care about using an operating system as a means to an end. Again, allquantified statements aren't that good in such a consideration. > FreeBSD is > a hobby and you have to use it because you like using it for the > purpose of using it, and anything else will be incidental. I for one am using FreeBSD to get my work done, and unlike many other operating systems, it successfully works as such a tool. > That is the condition of FreeBSD now. If these criticisms were taken > seriously, I believe the situation could change, and I hope it does. It would be nice if you could be more specific, pointing out actual problems (instead of just naming a wide direction where they may - or may not - be found. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: A quality operating system
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 16:22:45 -0400, Jerry wrote: > On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 11:09:53 -0700 > Michael Sierchio articulated: > > > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Dave Pooser > > wrote: > > > > > 3) Updates are a mess. It's cool that I *can* compile a new kernel, > > > but that I *have* to is ridiculous. Updating a server should not be > > > more difficult than "yum update" -- full stop. > > > > Are you lazy, or stupid? man freebsd-update > > I have never wasted my time with it personally; however, I thought I > read somewhere that it did not work if the user had built a custom > kernel. That's correct. The freebsd-update program is _not_ to be used for few specific cases, i. e. the OS version is a -STABLE or even -CURRENT one, or the user is running a non-GENERIC kernel. In such cases, updating from source is inteded, as freebsd-update is a very good tool for binary updating following the -RELEASE path (releases and security patches). _That_ is what it is designed for. It's not a "one size fits all" program. > From what I have seen written regarding it, you have to move the > custom kernel out of the way and replace it with the generic kernel, > run the freebsd-update program and then re-install the custom kernel and > then rebuild that. But this does still apply _only_ in cases where you're using a X.Y-pZ release of the OS, if I understood everything correctly. > Assuming that is correct, I can safely say that only > a masochist would find that solution given the numerous possibilities > for catastrophic failure any serious consideration. Obviously the KISS > principal was considered important in this scenario. There is another important principal: FIRST think, THEN do. In case of problems, restore from backup (which should be good practice in any updating scenario anyway, as in general and in every regards). :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: A quality operating system
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 23:13:32 -0500, Jorge Biquez wrote: > Seriously I would like to see or hear about the comparison chart > between all OSs. And a question arrive to my mind... if for some > reason, I know it is impossible, but if for some reason FreeBSD would > stop existing... serious users of FreeBSD, what would be your next OS? Why? Surely one of the other BSDs (OpenBSD as 1st choice, NetBSD as second), maybe some of the more "UNIX-like" Linusi (the "too complicated" ones, maybe those relying on source), and of course Solaris and Mac OS X are worth mentioning here. Those systems could be productive and good to maintain if FreeBSD should ever disappear. Personally, I have experiences with OpenBSD, Solaris and IRIX mainly, as well as some smaller Mac OS skills, so those would be my point of orientation. Of course, _what_ to use them for would be determining the choice. But again allow me to express that this is my very individual opinion that doesn't neccessarily apply to others. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: A quality operating system
gh some "wizard" with high interaction, "step by step", handholding the system, and then rebooting. This also implies that they expect every program to care for its own updates. A centralized means like it's present in FreeBSD is, in my opinion, much more logical and modern than those stange and old-fashioned concept that usually is employed to get spyware on typical PCs. > We are all > volunteers here and we usually try to help those that have first > helped themselves. It's always a sign of helpful communities that help is given to those who _first_ invest in solving the problem on their own, and with admitting that they can't master it, seek for help, being _open_ to that help, instead of expecting others to solve the problem. This is, by the way, the reason of the belief that some systems are "easy": They seem to be, as all problems are delegated to others. :-) > I personally told some college student a few weeks ago to go do his > homework and it cost me a discussion with a couple of members here, > and I will do it again. FreeBSD's list is IMHO much more tolerant than > _many_ other places I share my time in. Depending on _what_ other communities one visits on the Internet, the FreeBSD mailing list can sometime be a bit... direct - but that's not a problem because it's not a personal offense or an insult. And in my opinion, a direct statement often is more helpful than something wrapped in pretty words that doesn't help at all. > I think it's time that Ron posts directly and trade some facts about > all these claims. Preferably one post per fact at a time like > Netiquette indicates. Yes - those claims aside, I'd be interested in real facts, real cases where the claims could be backed up with some evidence. I do _not_ want to say that it's all wrong, because there's a little truth in some of the statements, but without a specific case, it's very hard to discuss that. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
PCI TV card with bktr kernel device
In the past years, I could use a very simple PCI TV card with FreeBSD. It's a Haupauge WinTV supported by the bktr driver (BT878) that I've always included in my system kernel. I have copied this from my previous configuration: # TV device bktr options BROOKTREE_SYSTEM_DEFAULT=BROOKTREE_PAL options BKTR_USE_PLL options BKTR_GPIO_ACCESS options BKTR_USE_FREEBSD_SMBUS I also paid attention to include this which I think was a requirement: # System management bus device smbus device iicbus device iicsmb device iicbb device iic Sadly, the kernel of 8.2-STABLE doesn't successfully compile with those settings, Those are the errors reported when building the kernel: ===> bktr (obj) ===> bktr/bktr (obj) [...] ===> bktr (depend) ===> bktr/bktr (depend) [...] cc -c -O2 -pipe -fno-strict-aliasing -march=prescott -std=c99 -Wall -Wredundant-decls -Wnested-externs -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wpointer-arith -Winline -Wcast-qual -Wundef -Wno-pointer-sign -fformat-extensions -nostdinc -I. -I/usr/src/sys -I/usr/src/sys/contrib/altq -D_KERNEL -DHAVE_KERNEL_OPTION_HEADERS -include opt_global.h -fno-common -finline-limit=8000 --param inline-unit-growth=100 --param large-function-growth=1000 -mno-align-long-strings -mpreferred-stack-boundary=2 -mno-mmx -mno-3dnow -mno-sse -mno-sse2 -mno-sse3 -ffreestanding -fstack-protector -Werror /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c cc1: warnings being treated as errors /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c: In function 'bti2c_smb_callback': /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:131: warning: implicit declaration of function 'mtx_lock' /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:131: warning: nested extern declaration of 'mtx_lock' /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:131: error: 'Giant' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:131: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:131: error: for each function it appears in.) /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:136: warning: implicit declaration of function 'mtx_unlock' /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:136: warning: nested extern declaration of 'mtx_unlock' /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c: In function 'bti2c_iic_callback': /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:168: error: 'Giant' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c: In function 'bti2c_iic_reset': /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:195: error: 'Giant' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c: In function 'bti2c_iic_setsda': /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:208: error: 'Giant' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c: In function 'bti2c_iic_setscl': /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:225: error: 'Giant' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c: In function 'bti2c_iic_getsda': /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:243: error: 'Giant' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c: In function 'bti2c_write': /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:260: error: 'Giant' undeclared (first use in this function) /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c: In function 'bti2c_smb_readb': /usr/src/sys/dev/bktr/bktr_i2c.c:330: error: 'Giant' undeclared (first use in this function) *** Error code 1 There were no problems on 5.x and 7.x with this kind of configuration. Is this also a functionality that is not present anymore, or am I missing some change that has to be made on current 8.x systems? -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Printing from Opera
I'm currently trying to get my printing subsystem working again. Luckily I can use a networked office-class printer that does understand PS; it's a HP Laserjet 4000 duplex (networked, has parallel, no USB). On installing Opera, I encountered the following dialog: ++ | Options for opera 11.50| | ++ | | | [X] CUPS Enable support for printing (requires CUPS) | | <=== | | [X] VIDEO Enable support for HTML5 video (requires GStreamer) | | | | [ ] GTKUse GTK backend | | | | [ ] KDE4 Use KDE4 backend| | +-++-+ | [ OK ] Cancel| ++ What does this mean? Do I read that correctly? In order to print from Opera, you _need_ to use CUPS? Oh come on! Honestly! In the past it was possible to print without that stuff! Really... "modern" software seems to get worse and worse... But back on topic. Because of the printer I use, I do not have any _need_ for printer filters (like apsfilter or gs), and surely I do not need a system that mimics the strange "Windows" ways of handling the printer. I did not install CUPS, and therefore the Opera printing dialog did not show any printer to use. Not even the system's standard printer (handled by lpr and printcap) was listed. I can use it from everywhere - except from Opera. So I took some time to install CUPS and all the parts that come with it (Gutenprint, foomatic, hpijs, hplip, all the stuff I don't even know what it is). Configuring took some time, but now it prints from Gimp, from the command line, from gv, from xpdf - just as it should be (and as it was without CUPS before). But not from Opera. Sometimes a job is listed in the lpq output, sometimes not. But nothing is received by the printer. And even if I defined "Laserjet" to be CUPS's default printer, Opera's default is "Laserjet-nodup" (same configuration, just with duplexer disabled). For further testing today, I had to re-install the printer in CUPS again because the settings didn't survive a reboot. Oh wow... My question to the list now: Did anybody get Opera working with CUPS or (better) without it? Maybe did I miss something important at installation time? A first idea for a workaround: Opera can print to a file. This is the default PS output. What about creating a file that can be put into the "Print to file" dialog, but this file is not a file, it somehow transfers the data written to it to the system's lpr standard input, just as if you would do "ls | lpr"? I have "named pipe" in mind, but I'm almost sure that is _not_ what I need. Does anyone have some pointers what I should read to get that working, if possible? Or am I thinking into the wrong direction? Installed stuff: opera-11.50 opera-linuxplugins-11.50 cups-1.4.6 cups-base-1.4.6_5 cups-client-1.4.6 cups-image-1.4.6 cups-pstoraster-8.15.4_6 gutenprint-cups-5.2.4_2 As I said, printing worked from everywhere - at least yesterday it did. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printing from Opera
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 06:55:34 -0400, Rod Person wrote: > On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 09:58:41 +0200 > Polytropon wrote: > > My question to the list now: > > > > Did anybody get Opera working with CUPS or (better) > > without it? Maybe did I miss something important at > > installation time? > > > > I've been printing from Opera using this method > http://www.opera.com/support/kb/view/481/ Which version of Opera are you using? I have 11.50/1047 installed; the page you refered to states: Opera for Linux uses Qt to handle the printing. Qt looks in /etc/printcap for available printers, so make sure your printers are listed there. Printers are listed, but they don't appear in the "Printers" list. Then: If you are having problems printing, try adding a custom printer under the "Options" tab in File > Print. This is not possible, as the Options tab doesn't have any function to add a printer. This is what it looks like: +-- Print --+ | _ | |_Destination| Options || | | | Paper and Orientation | | A4 (210 x 297 mm) v | | Portrait v | | | | Scale print to100% v | | [J] Fit to paper width| | | | [ ] Print page background | | [ ] Print headers and footers | | | | Color | | ( ) Print in color if available | | (o) Print in grayscale | | | | Page margins (in centimeters) | | Top 1.00 Bottom 1.00 | | Left 1.00 Right 1.00 | |___| | | | [ Print] [ Cancel ] [ Apply ] | +---+ There is no means to add a printer. I also checked the Registry... erm... the Configuration editor "opera:config", with the search string "print". Even though the key "PrinterName" is defined as $PRINTER, which points to "Laserjet" (the default printer queue that all other programs can use too), there is no command that could be entered (like "lpr -PLaserjet"), sonsisting of a printer program and a parameter, as described in the article mentioned on top. > Since you have a good printer that doesn't need a CUPS you probably can > skip that and just make sure tp have the correct /etc/printcap I have a correct /etc/rintcap for more than 20 years now, and I never encountered such a situation that cannot be explained or understood... :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: A quality operating system
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:02:18 -0500, Evan Busch wrote: > I didn't expect this much response. You always get what you deserve on this list. :-) No, seriously: There are participants of this list who understand complains and other statements in a critical tone as inspiration for improvement. But allow me to say that _if_ you are interested in contributing in _that_ way, you should always bring examples and name _concrete_ points you're criticizing, instead of just mentioning wide ranges of "this doesn't conform to my interpretation of what 'professional' should look like". As long as you are professional and fair, you will get a polite and substantial (!) response. > Every professional documentarian I've encountered agrees with you. > It's inconsistent, wordy, and has no concept of the order of > introduction of its concepts. No professional software package would > ship with documentation this bad. Depends. Have a look at IBM's mainframe or midrange documentation. For those who are working with this very special kind of documentation, it may appear fully understandable, helpful and direct. For hobbyists or newbies, it may look to be the complete opposite: Not understandable, no structure, way too verbose, and not helpful at all. You can also see how Sun publishes documentation for their Solaris OS. Did publish. Past tense. :-) In most cases, documentation requires you to have a minimal clue of what you're doing. There's terminology you simply have to know, and concepts to understand in order to use the documentation. Different kinds of users have different preferences. Some like to use the web, like to use Wikis and discussion boards. Others like to use structured web pages. Again, other like web pages too, but want to have as much information in _one_ (long) page. And there are those who do not want to depend on the web - those like man pages. If you're used to some specific _way_ of documentation, you will maybe value anything that's _different_ from that way as being inferior, non-professional, or less helpful. Also keep in mind that especially for developers, the SOURCE CODE also is an important piece of documentation. Here FreeBSD is very good, compared to other systems. > The multiple grammatical errors only > enhance the sense of its fundamentally confused nature as a document. Oh, then don't visit the non-english translations of the documentation. :-) > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Polytropon wrote: > > > > Well, in _this_ area, I would also agree that work should be > > done to concentrate documentation, e. g. make an "essence" from > > knowledge and examples in mailing lists, web forums and so on. > > But there are too many of them, and you simply cannot put all > > the possible things into "the one documentation" project. > > This isn't as big of a project as you make it seem. In fact, it will > reduce your workload and that of your users. I have worked on documentation projects (in the medical and technical sector) before, and it was relatively easy because you KNEW enough, e. g. who your clients are, how they read, what they need to know, and what they already do know, so you had a good basis for creating documentation that fits there needs. Here the "one size fits all" problem arises. It's really hard to make documentation "for everybody". What should be in there? How much detail is needed? What can the reader conclude himself? Which terminology is he already familiar with? > I think the comments above provide a good starting point for > actual discussion. It would help if you could just bring some examples for what is lacking in your opinion. > As far as people proving my point about the BSD community being reactionary: > [...] > These angry non-sequiturs just reek of defensiveness. Note the presence of ":-)" and the abilities of english native speakers who are much more able to express "between the lines" than I am, for example. > I think I predicted these behaviors when I spoke of "cliques" and the > nasty, elitist side of geek culture. You can "predict" that everywhere. Just go to any halfway specialized setting and make claims about something not meeting your requirements, telling the people they are not professional and lack the most fundamental things. Of course there will be some who thing you're just trolling them, because to _them_, that's exactly what you do, even if you have other intentions. Interpretation heavily depends on specific discussion cultures. The way you communicate on this list, for example, is very different from how you write Twitter messages, SMS, or act in a different "online community" (e. g. like WoW gamers with their terminology and "cultural t
Re: A quality operating system
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:48:46 -0400, Henry Olyer wrote: > Sure, nothing human is perfect, that includes the people behind FreeBSD and > also the OS. And even if the OS is perfect, its 3rd party applications may be not. > But compared to (gasp!,) windoz and linux, (not too bad, but it's as > non-secure as windoz!,) FreeBSD and OpenBSD standout for one reason, their > better. In security-related settings, you're _happy_ about this attitude. If you want a special feature, you're smart enough to enable it yourself. This often is better than stuffing all the visible holes and hoping there's just a limited amount of invisible ones that don't harm your security. In most real-life cases, that's just a nice wish, but not reality. :-) > I would like to see negotiate a deal to give us pre-built java-enabled > browsers. A few other things, too. But that's where politics and lawyer-blahblah enter the field. Why is there no browser with _all_ the available plugins (and even if they just run per compatibility layer) available? Or a media player (as a package) that plays _all_ types of media? Why are non-english languages often a task with trouble? Why doesn't OpenOffice come with dictionaries? And so on. I could complain all day long. :-) People complain that some things don't work out of the box. But in many cases, the FreeBSD OS is the wrong party to address. There are other parties who are interested in _not_ allowing others to include Java, media codecs and so on in a default install, and some software manufacturers refuse to support FreeBSD (which is their right, but doesn't make it any better). The same applies to restricted support for incompatible hardware. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: A quality operating system
On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 01:24:51 -0300, Mario Lobo wrote: > Well, I think the handbook has got its name wrong. To me, it should have been > called handybook. What you're saying sounds more like you wanted the handbook > to be a usage tutorial, which it's NOT what it is supposed to be. That's a valid point of view. When you compare how other publications, named "Handbook" look like e. g. in the mainframe area, you'll be surprised what "quality" they are: They're aimed at a totally different audience, and they have different concepts of how to present information. > If you put > micro$oft's docs into this picture, prepare you wallet for tons of books. And > in microsoft's case, it has an obligation to take you by the hand, and IT > DOESN'T !. Additionally, keep in mind to buy the whole set _new_ with each version of "Windows" being sold. "Windows" knowledge has the habit of not being portable, so what you knew from, let's say, almost 10 years old "Windows XP" doesn't apply in newer versions anymore. You have to relearn many things. This shows: NO kind of documentation frees you from constant learning - if you want to keep using new technology. > The only time I resort straight to the handbook is to the hardware > compatibility list whenever I'm thinking of buying something new for the > server/desktop, but BEFORE I actually buy it. Shoudln't it be mandatory to _think_ BEFORE acting in any regards? Oh sorry, I forgot: PC on, brain off. :-) > I think Polytropon put it very well: > > "In most cases, documentation requires you to have a minimal > clue of what you're doing. There's terminology you simply > have to know, and concepts to understand in order to use > the documentation." Thanks. I did have to learn this the hard way: In order to really profit from good documentation, you need to understand what it says. Even in "Windows" land, where you have to learn new and arbitrary vocabulary for established things (that everyone else can name correctly), and you have to get all the strange concepts in line, beginning with "drive letters" and ending in reboots after few changes. :-) The FreeBSD documentation even keeps that in mind: It mentions the "Windows" terms for things just in case some reader is already spoiled with those deviant terminology (e. g. when explaining what a slice is). > Second, throughout your post, it sounds like your thoughts sprung up, not > from > your own quest and research, but from somebody (Ron) who "is completely pro- > Linux and pro-Windows, and against FreeBSD" (hummm...) and that is "the > biggest UNIX fanatic I know"(100x hummm...). And Ron's millage with FreeBSD > is > never mentioned also, so that kinda drops the critique's "credibility" tag to > the floor. What's the word that may apply here? Prejudice? > Last, suppose you issue a general invitation for people to go over to your > house for a free dinner, with food that you know (because you helped in > preparing it!) in your heart and taste to be excellent, well prepared and > nutritious. And all of a sudden I storm at your door and yell for all the > guests that already know what you know about the food, without even tasting > anything, that a "very good and knowledgeable" friend of mine told me that > the > kitchen is as dirty as hell, the food tastes terrible and that all the guests > will get diarrhea and probably die if they eat anything. > > What would you do? Wow, what a nice analogy! =^_^= -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printing from Opera
On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 08:01:50 +0200, Kruppa, Peter Ulrich wrote: > Sorry, I forgot to include the list - > > Am 24.08.2011 17:19, schrieb Polytropon: > > On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:38:45 +0200, Kruppa, Peter Ulrich wrote: > >> Opera really does work with Cups - you will see your printer's > >> network name in the printer dialog. > > > > I've installed CUPS and actually _can_ see the printer > > names in the dialog, but no printing takes place. > > > > Test: I loaded google's homepage and pressed Ctrl+P Enter. > > > > % lpq > > HP_LaserJet_4000_Series is ready and printing > > RankOwner Job File(s) Total Size > > active poly20 Google - Opera 419840 bytes > > > > And few seconds later: > > > > % lpq > > HP_LaserJet_4000_Series is ready > > no entries > > > > But nothing appear in the printer. It works from any > > other application, even from command line. > > > > Note that _those_ lp* tools are belonging to CUPS. > > Which means - you really do use /usr/local/bin/lp and removed the system's > /usr/bin/lp* stuff? > > Just to be sure Just checked again. Even though I did not have CUPS_OVERWRITE_BASE=YES in /etc/make.conf when installing cups, I renamed the system's lp* tools so those of CUPS are being used: % which lpq lpr lprm lp /usr/local/bin/lpq /usr/local/bin/lpr /usr/local/bin/lprm /usr/local/bin/lp The system's tools are out of scope now. % ls /usr/bin/lp* /usr/bin/lp.bsd /usr/bin/lpq.bsd /usr/bin/lpr.bsd /usr/bin/lprm.bsd As I made sure from various programs, CUPS _can_ actually print. It just doesn't print from Opera. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printing from Opera
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 17:48:40 -0400, Rod Person wrote: > Out of curiosity, when I got how I fired up Opera 11.50 and took these screen > shots. > > You can see that I have a Print to LPR option and you can set the command > line. Yes - that seems to be the KDE printing dialog. I did just rebuild Opera (which installed _lots_ of stuff, kdelibs and other KDE and Qt related things, and stuff that I've never heared of, no idea what it is and what I should need it for, e. g. Sesame, Rasqal, Soprano, Botan and Grantlee - it's just you're talking how to solve "Maniac Mansion II: Day Of The Tentacle" with a friend on a public bus!). Really, naming "modern" software products makes you sound silly. :-) > But it seem it does stay saved and you have to type in the command every time. The standard command _is_ lpr, so this should be fine. I've tried _all_ the dialogs, going to "opera:config" Registry, and changing numerical values. The explainations for "Dialog Toolkit" are a bit scary: 0 = Autodetect toolkit to use for file selector 1 = Use Qt for file selector (dprecated, will fall back to KDE) 2 = Use GTK for file selector 3 = Use KDE for file selector 4 = Use X11 for file selector Note that althoug the key "Dialog Toolkit" is categorized in "File Selector", it does _also_ affect the printing dialog! Furthermore, it affects how the menus and colors look like. Oh... deprecated!!! The only file saving dialog that worked in a halfway accessible manner is now DEPRECATED! Great! I tried the Gtk file dialog, it has bad keyboard support, is slow and doesn't allow fast actions. The KDE dialog is also unusable. And if Opera starts, there are a lot of error messages related to KDE (as I'm not using it maybe?). There is no ".." entry anymore (too complicated for "average users"?), and the GTK file dialog doesn't even allow easy overwriting a file name (selection just covers prefix, not full entry). This is how it looked like in previous versions: +-- Save as ---+ | | | Look in: _#_/var/tmp_ [<] [^] [°] [::][=] | | | | # ..* a_saved_file.html | | # some_directory* another_file_html | | # another one | | | | File name: blabla.html_ [ Save ] | | | | File type: HTML file (*.htm, *.html)[ Cancel ] | | | +--+ Note that the upper field can be addressed per keyboard, so you can change the path there - or you enter a path (as prefix or only entry) in the lower field. The dialog I got after installation with KDE and GTK backends _not_ selected was a poor implementation of that dialog, but it worked, even though there are strange things like Places and File system that I don't understand what they are to be used for. Waste of space on screen seems to be "modern". The old Opera 8.54 printing dialog had a tab to specify a printer program and its parameters. This seems also DEPRECATED, so if you want it, you need KDE... or what? > Dialog: > http://rodperson.com/DL/2011-08-24-174109_1680x1050_scrot.png Exactly that's what I get, and if I enter a job, it is shown for a short time in the lpq output, but the printer does not print anything. Then the queue is empty. And even as I now have those dialogs, and made all settings as one would expect, in the _result_, nothing is printed. No error messages (checked xterm calling Opera) appear. There is just one printer. It's the only one on the list. It _has_ to be manually (!) selected before I am able to send the print job. Standard procedure ^P and Enter also seems to be DEPRECATED... Summary: Printing still does not work. And file dialog got worse. I will try to make a workaround by using the "Print to file" mechanism to pipe it directly into the printer somehow. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printing from Opera
On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 08:57:41 +0200, Kruppa, Peter Ulrich wrote: > Do opera's print jobs show up in the queue (With # lpq) or via browser > http://localhost:631 ? In both, for a very short time. The command line lpr report looks like this: % lpq HP_LaserJet_4000_Series is ready and printing RankOwner Job File(s) Total Size active poly20 Google - Opera 419840 bytes Then it disappears after a few seconds % lpq HP_LaserJet_4000_Series is ready no entries The printer doesn't start to print. If I try this from other programs (e. g. Gimp, the Sylpheed MUA, or OpenOffice), the entry is listed, and the printer starts to work. In the web administration, all jobs are listed as "completed", except that the Opera printing jobs didn't result in printing, while the other ones did. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: PCI TV card with bktr kernel device
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 10:59:46 +0200, Bernt Hansson wrote: > The only thing I have is bktr_load="YES" in /boot/loader.conf. I've seen that the modules have been successfully built, so I did assume that _everything_ still works. But modules seem to be quite different from what is required to get things working directly inside the kernel, such as the "Giant" locking mechanism which doesn't seem to be supported anymore (according to the compiler error messages). The only thing I'm not sure is: How am I supposed to change former kernel options such as options BROOKTREE_SYSTEM_DEFAULT=BROOKTREE_PAL in order to define how the card works, as I need PAL support and not NTSC. Is there a mechanism to change this for the module? Or per loader tunable, or a sysctl? Or maybe I don't even need that setting, as it is the default? Just like A4 is the default paper size? :-) > Running 8.2-STABLE #0 AMD64 Also 8.2-STABLE here, but i386 after nVidia problems with AMD64. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: System lockups in X with nVidia GeForce 7600 GS (G73) and Gtk+
On Tue, 16 Aug 2011 14:15:03 -0500, Conrad J. Sabatier wrote: > On Sun, 14 Aug 2011 05:49:42 +0200 > Polytropon wrote: > > > Meanwhile, I got the "nvidia" driver compiled, installed > > and running. Tests like > > > > % xlock -nolock -mode lament > > > > or > > > > % xlock -nolock -mode fire > > > > show the FPS rate I've expected (no comparison to the 3 > > fps I got with "nv"). In "gears" there are > 5000 FPS, > > that's _magnitudes_ better than with "nv". > > Yes, the driver performs quite admirably. :-) No more gnashing my > teeth in envy of others with true hardware-accelerated drivers. I'm currently using that driver, and everything seems to work as intended. The only problem I have is that the driver has different DPI opinions as the previous ones. This makes some fonts unreadable. I found that I can easily change the Gtk+ base font by a ~/.gtkrc-2.0 with something like ``gtk-font-name="Tahoma 12"'' in it, but this of course doesn't apply everywhere. There seems to be a solution to handle DPI settings in X directly, so I put "DisplaySize 410 305" in the monitor section of xorg.conf. The monitor is an Eizo FlexScan F980 21" CRT with BNC cabling, so no autodetect magic. But some things still are wrong, maybe I should try ``Option "DPI" "96 x 96"'' in the device section - I'm not sure which values should be used, 72 or 75 or 96 or 115... Additionally, the gv program has a problem (but it already had that on _each_ of the three drivers): The keys for selecting pages are squished. This is how they should look like: http://t16web.lanl.gov/Kawano/gnuplot/intro/plotcalc7.png They are like this: +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ |* ===| | ===| | ===| | ===| | ===| |* ===| | ===| | ===| |* ===| | ===| |* ===| | ===| | ===| |* ===| | ===| | ===| +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ SHOULD like. Currently, they look like this: +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ |#| |#| |#| |#| +-+ +-+ +-+ +-+ You can't tell which is which. The gv program uses Xaw3d for the display elements. Maybe nVidia is not compatible with that? Or it's also a "wrong DPI" effect? Everything else in gv works as intended. On the other hand, mplayer can now change brightness and contrast again; I have put "vo=gl" in ~/.mplayer/config and it works. :-) > > I'd like to point out that the nvidia driver comes with > > nice documentation: /usr/local/share/doc/NVIDIA_GLX-1.0/README > > contains lots of great stuff. > > The html version is even nicer to work with: > > file:///usr/local/share/doc/NVIDIA_GLX-1.0/html/index.html Thanks for the pointer, yes, that's really informative. During the near future, I'm interested in getting Twinview + Xinerama working (as I actually have _two_ 21" CRTs of the same type) and TV out working. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Printing from Opera
Again a system freeze, so I have to write this message for a second time. But I think it's worth it as I made some interesting discoveries. :-) On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 06:43:01 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote: > If the print job has a PostScript error, it would be received and then > just disappear. Unless you have the printer set to "print PostScript > errors", anyway. Watch the printer lights for a quick flash when (if) > the job is actually sent. I've tried that from the google search page (no query entered) and could see the display "JOBVERARBEITUNG" (job processing), as well as a short flashing of the "Daten" (data) LED. Nothing got printed, but the printer seemed to receive data. So I thought I should investigate the data. In Opera, I selected "Print to file" and loaded the PS file into gs. It had a black square across the page, as well as scroll bars. Scroll bars? In the PS output? Hmmm... sounds stupid! Printing this file from within gs (which pipes it to lpr), as well as directly printing it with lpr, resulted in the job appearing + disappearing. Okay, I thought it might have something to do with the web page printed... so I opened a simple web page (no images, just text). IT GOT PRINTED!!! So is this local file vs. online file? I opened http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/LEGALNOTICE.html and printed it. It also got printed, but with a black bar across the rear side of the second page. There also were grey bars at the margins of the text (but I could remove them by manually Alt+P = Preferencs, Webpages, Background Color set to white). The output was like this (2nd page): Corel and WordPerfect are trademarks or registered trademarks of Corel Corporation and/or its subsidiaries in Canada, the United States and/or ## ## ## ## And then printing continued normally on the 3rd page (2nd sheet) with SAP, R/3, and mySAP are trademarks or registered trademarks of SAP AG in Germany and in several other countries all over the world. What is this selective printing? Or am I not allowed to print portions of the copyright? :-) Whenever I try to print from Opera, I have to manually select the only selectable printer with the mouse. What about the good old "Ctrl+P Enter"? Already DEPRECATED? Not "modern" enough? Alternative: Firefox. I have version 6.0.1 installed. When I opened the google search page, it got printed, but without the colored Google text. Other web pages with images have the images printed. And suddenly, the system froze. I had to switch it off (with the _real_ power switch on the back). The "freeze virus" has jumped from Sylpheed to Firefox. Summary: PS generation seems to be different among browsers. Sometimes something gets generated that the printer cannot print. Idea: I could configure CUPS _not_ to use PS, but instead convert it to PCL and then send it to the printer, maybe this can bring different results. (Note that my last message contained some more details, e. g. different job sizes when printing the same page from Opera and from Firefox, but due to the reboot the message was lost.) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: A quality operating system
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:56:16 -0500, Evan Busch wrote: > I can see this will be important here: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma > > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Polytropon wrote: > > But allow me to say > > that _if_ you are interested in contributing in _that_ > > way, you should always bring examples and name _concrete_ > > points you're criticizing, instead of just mentioning > > wide ranges of "this doesn't conform to my interpretation > > of what 'professional' should look like". > > The problem with your statement is that it does not allow for general > critique, which is also needed. If something shows up in more than one > place, it is a general critique. No. General critique would require to be general, means: it would have to apply in all (or at least most) places. To advance from specific to general critique, it would be useful to show at least _some_ examples where it would apply, and then say something like: "There's more around the corner." But _before_ considering general statements, specific ones would have to be discussed, just to make sure the one that came to your mind wasn't an exception of the rule. >From logic, you should know that allquantified statements (those including "all", "none", "every", as well as "none" or "never") are easy to disprove: Only one (!) counter- example is required. A = q ^ w ^ e ^ r ^ t ^ z ^ u ^ i -> false <===> (at least) one of (q, w, e, r, t, z, u, i) is false, to put it into a formal expression. > > In most cases, documentation requires you to have a minimal > > clue of what you're doing. There's terminology you simply > > have to know, and concepts to understand in order to use > > the documentation. > > See the Wikipedia page above -- the problem isn't one of user > competence, but of poorly-written documentation that is fundamentally > disorganized. Oh again you put additional emphasize on it: "fundamentally". This implies there's a general problem with the documentation. Could you please _name_ that problem, instead of just mentioning that there is one? > Have you looked at any of the documentation coming out of Redmond right now? Oh god no! Why wouold I look into disorganized documentation that cannot even be received by blind users, and that invents arbitrary words for established technical terminology, changing all the time? :-) > How do you think FreeBSD's documentation stands up to that? Wery well I'd say: It can be accessed offline, for free, and by all audiences (including exceptional ones such as blind or deaf users). > > Different kinds of users have different preferences. Some > > like to use the web, like to use Wikis and discussion boards. > > Others like to use structured web pages. Again, other like > > web pages too, but want to have as much information in _one_ > > (long) page. And there are those who do not want to depend > > on the web - those like man pages. > > The question isn't form, but content. Form and content have to be matching when you're talking quality. Would you accept a letter from your local tax administration that is correct by content, but written on used toilet paper? On the other hand, how would you think about a book that is pure crap, but written on golden paper with leather? > > If you're used to some specific _way_ of documentation, you > > will maybe value anything that's _different_ from that way > > as being inferior, non-professional, or less helpful. > > I think I'm talking about professional level documentation, not a > specific "style." Professional always implies a specific target audience which has the abilities to learn how to use a given kind of documentation. As I said, mainframe documentation is _very_ different from what you might know, but it is _extremely_ professional for those who deal with it - to solve problems. > > Also keep in mind that especially for developers, the SOURCE > > CODE also is an important piece of documentation. Here FreeBSD > > is very good, compared to other systems. > > We're talking end-user documentation here. Suddenly? I just thought we would talk professional documentation here... By the way, a thing like end-user documentation does not exist. End users do not need documentation. They don't read anything. At _most_, they'd look at colored pictures, but not act according to them. Documentation is the first thing they throw away (in many cases right before they throw away installation media), because "they don't need what they don't know". Do I have a strange look at end users? Maybe, but according t
Identifying disk activity
Since I have installed my new system (FreeBSD/i386 8.2-STABLE), I have found some kind of disk activity I've never had before on my home system. As this PC is a very cheap product, it doesn't have a HDD LED. Instead I have to listen to the disk. This is the strange sound: four groups of short "bt" sounds within a second, with a short pause between them. #-#-#-#- = 1 s This can be heared over several seconds, then silence. From time to time, a "brrrt" sound appears for 3 seconds in one long rush. I am not sure this is related to a program, but I'd like to find it out. As FreeBSD's I/O subsystem does not work in real-time, I cannot conclude from actual program file I/O to physical disk I/O. Is there a way to force "synchronous disk activity"? I don't mind if this makes the system run slower, because it's just for diagnostics, but I'd like file I/O done by a program to cause immediate disk activity. My idea is to watch open files and running programs as precise as possible (as root: "top -St -s 0"). Which tools (e. g. top, htop, lsof) would you suggest to narrow down _which_ program is accessing _which_ file, causing the sound? I already do suspect Opera (due to opera-linuxplugins-11.50, linux-f10-flashplugin-10.3r183.5, nspluginwrapper-1.4.4 maybe), but I'd like to know _where_ exactly this strange sound came from, as there is no 1:1 relation (running Opera does not imply the sound to appear). I have already checked "smartctl -a /dev/ad4" which doesn't show any malicious behaviour of the disk itself (sometimes also the reason for strange sounds). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: System hanging, error messages with USB drive on FreeBSD 8.1
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 17:01:24 -0600, Brett Glass wrote: > I'm working with a FreeBSD 8.1-RELEASE/amd64 machine that's > attempting to write data to an ordinary Kingston 8 GB microSD card. > The card has been inserted into its USB adapter and plugged into a > USB port on the machine. The system is locking up repeatedly with > messages that say > > (da1:umass-sim1:1:0:0): SYNCHRONIZE CACHE(10). CDB: 35 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 > (da1:umass-sim1:1:0:0): SCSI sense: Error code 0x52 > > A Web search reveals that problems like this have cropped up for > many, many FreeBSD users as far back as 4.x. But I can't seem to > find any solution (which amazes me; if there's a bug, one would > think it would have gotten some attention). Do I have to abandon > the use of FreeBSD with USB thumb drives (or maybe with USB > altogether)? Hope not, but I may have to if I can't get this fixed. I'm not sure if this will help you, but I also had similar problems with a Kingston USB stick (normal storage stick, no removable microSD card). It didn't work on any of my FreeBSD systems. So I finally returned it to the shop and got a Sony USB stick instead - no problems, works fine. So this is my assumption: Some hardware vendors maybe improperly implement the USB protocol in their devices, so any OS requiring standard conformation of the attached devices (which are malfunctioning according to the USB protocol specifications) signals an error. I also have a "multi card reader" (CF, SD, microSD and who knows what else, it's a "hama USB 2.0 Card Reader 35 in 1") which attaches per USB. It also does not work properly (also causes, at least when I tried it the last time on a 7-STABLE system). The built-in card reader of my home PC works fine instead. Recently, I had to access the USB stick of a friend. The stick didn't work at first try, and the friend told me to try multiple times; he stated that he would have to do that on his Linux system too. So I tried a second time - and magically, the stick worked as intended. Maybe this approach can help here too? But when you say that attaching the USB adaptor causes the system to _hang_, this means that the OS detected a severe hardware malfunction. The OS doesn't stop for no reason; it does so in order to prevent further damages. This behaviour is intended. What's _not_ intended is hardware manufacturers poorly caring for the implementation of the "software part" in their storage devices. Sadly that's not a typical sign of "el cheapo" stuff anymore - even expensive devices sometimes suffer from that poor quality, i. e. their _customers_ are suffering. :-( So if you have problems with such hardware, returning it is an option, and then try some different brand or model. It helps if you print out a dmesg report - looks exceptionally good when done on green-bar paper :-) - and use a red marker to highlight the USB related error messages. Then just say: "This USB adaptor is broken." No average salesman will disagree, and you should immediately get your money back. I've tried that, it works fine. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Identifying disk activity
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 23:54:32 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote: > On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Polytropon wrote: > > > Since I have installed my new system (FreeBSD/i386 8.2-STABLE), > > I have found some kind of disk activity I've never had before > > on my home system. As this PC is a very cheap product, it doesn't > > have a HDD LED. Instead I have to listen to the disk. > > > > This is the strange sound: four groups of short "bt" sounds > > within a second, with a short pause between them. > > > > #-#-#-#- = 1 s > > > > This can be heared over several seconds, then silence. From > > time to time, a "brrrt" sound appears for 3 seconds in one > > long rush. > > That could be a "t-cal", thermal calibration. Depends on the age and > model of the drive, some drives don't do it. Could be other internal > drive activity. WD drives like to park heads often, loudly, and for no > good reason. I didn't mention it's a WD, how did you guess? :-) % dmesg | grep ^ad ad4: 305245MB at ata2-master UDMA100 SATA 1.5Gb/s Strangely, I didn't hear that sound when the system was running AMD64, it seems to have appeared on i386 and _sometimes_ in conjunction with Opera. I have removed the side panel of the PC box, but the sound still sometimes can be heared. The disk doesn't become spectacularly hot, but thermal problems are quite common to "modern" home consumer hardware - and this special PC seems to be _very_ "modern". I have used _many_ WD drives in the past, but none of them has even made such sounds. Seems to be a "modern" feature. > > Is there a way to force "synchronous disk activity"? > > Turning off soft updates will help, but not make disk writes > totally synchronous. Can this be done easily (e. g. "tunefs -n disable http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Scritping sysinstall and custom iso
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:20:34 +0530, Amitabh Kant wrote: > All the commands run fine and I am able to generate an iso. Now, couple of > questions that have confused me: > a) Where do I place install.cfg file for sysinstall to read without any user > intervention? In the root directory of the disc1 layout or inside > 8.2-Release / other sub directory? According to /usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/install.cfg's location from which one would conclude that the sysinstall would be in /usr/sbin of the CD (as well as installed on the disk), I would assume install.cfg to be in the same directory as the sysinstall program itself - /usr/sbin. But it could also be /stand... > b) Is there a place where I can get a sample install.cfg with all the > options explained? All I could find were different examples tailored to > specific situations, most of them towards PXE boot. The file /usr/src/usr.sbin/sysinstall/install.cfg does contain some comments for explaination. Also see "man 8 sysinstall" for the "SCRIPT SYNTAX" section. > c) Is it necessary to define every step in install.cfg? I would like to keep > disk partition / label and network configuration dialogs available (root > password if necessary), while setting values for all other user dialogs and > screens. I don't think it is neccessary (as assumed by the "incomplete" install.cfg mentioned above), but consult the documentation to be sure. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Hi
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:09:30 -0700, Spencer Thompson wrote: > Dear FreeBSD.org, > > I would like to order a CD with FreeBSD for an IBM Thinkpad. What is the > best package to get? I would suggest to get the most recent RELEASE version. Currently that's 8.2. Depending on the hardware you are using, use i386 (the 32 bit system) or AMD64 (the 64 bit system); note that you can run i386 on 64 bit hardware without problems in most cases (except you need a specific 64 bit functionality). > Will it work perfectly? This depends on the particular Thinkpad's hardware. See the list of supported devices. The FAQ's chapter "Hardware Compatibility" does have a good list: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/books/faq/hardware.html Also see the current release's hardware notes: http://www.freebsd.org/releases/8.2R/hardware.html In case of questions, you may ask IBM for statements about their FreeBSD support. A basic statement from my personal experience: Whatever hardware is compatible to standards, it will work without any problems. > I want a package with the > manual, man-pages and how to use FreeBSD perfectly in books. Please see "Appendix A. Obtaining FreeBSD" in the FreeBSD Handbook for information how to get FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/mirrors.html Also see: http://www.freebsd.org/where.html And of course: http://www.freebsdmall.com/cgi-bin/fm I think you'll also get suggestions from this list about which books are recommended; "Absolute FreeBSD" is a book commonly mentioned: http://www.absolutefreebsd.com/ It can be ordered from No Starch Press. Also note that you can - if you _want_ to - turn your local manpages, the Handbook and FAQ into printable PS, which means you can selectively print the sections that you need. The tools to do this are provided by the system. > What does Free in FreeBSD mean? Does it mean Free as in Free of charge? Or > is there an alternate meaning? "Free" means two things here: FreeBSD is a _free_ operating system within the open source ecosystem; it's developed by the FreeBSD team. And you can obtain it for _free_, i. e. for no charge. http://www.freebsd.org/about.html Please see the web site as an excellent resource to answer most of your questions. The main page http://www.freebsd.org/ contains references to all relevant topics like online documentation, mailing list archives, wikis and related projects. > I'm wanting the best operating system for my laptop. Is this the one? This depends on what you intend your laptop to be used for. It therefore depends on the hardware you want to use, as well as on the software. > Why > is it free of charge when I want to pay for it? You actually _can_ pay for it, e. g. by ordering media and documentation from a vendor, or you can donate money to the project. The strength of the FreeBSD system is that even poor people can "afford" it as you don't need a pirated copy (which is illegal in most legislations) in order to use a professional, secure and versatile system. So if you want to pay in order to support FreeBSD, see http://www.freebsd.org/donations/ for where to direct donations at. You can see that this is another meaning of "free" in FreeBSD: You are free to pay for it if you want to. > I don't want something > stupid. Be confident: You won't get. > I don't want to read the man-pages on the internet. Or the manual on the > internet. Nor download anything. I don't like that. Then FreeBSD is a good choice. All documentation is available locally (man pages, Handbook, FAQ and so on). You don't need a web browser or an Internet connection to access it. Most 3rd party software available for FreeBSD shares this approach and brings good documentation. > Does it come with all the applications I need for business and marketing? > That's all I need. No. The FreeBSD operating system brings an operating system, nothing more or less. You will have to install the programs you need because FreeBSD is a multifunctional OS, serving on workstations, servers, combined forms and even embedded systems. How _should_ it come with business applications in such a case? Furthermore, the term "business applications" is very wide. What _are_ business applications - in YOUR case? Because in _my_ case, business applications may likely be something quite different from yours, and from anyone else's. If you are interested in a FreeBSD system that comes with KDE and lots of average productivity applications preinstalled and preconfigured, check PC-BSD: http://www.pcbsd.org/ See if this fits your needs. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Is there way to get filename for specific LBA?
software errors also could be, even though it's often the _disk_ that needs replacing. With this introduction, I would give the following suggestion: Damaged files often cannot be "detected" by a stat() call. A means to _try_ to "detect" all files is to tar them. Mount the disk, use -o ro for security, and then run: # tar cvf /dev/null /mnt/ where /mnt is where you have mounted the disk in question. The tar program should now try to read all the files. Those that it cannot read (see stderr output) are to be considered damaged. Then locate those files. Use # ls -i This information can be used for the fsdb program. In case you're working on a mounted partition, use # fsdb -r in order to find out more about the files (inodes) that you suspect being damaged. Also see "The Sleuth Kit" (port "sleuth") with the ils and fls tools that can give good information about files and inodes. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Resetting bootloader on a CF
On Wed, 31 Aug 2011 23:47:22 +0200, bsd wrote: > Part of the solution seems to be : > > 1. Mount the CF on a FBSD > 2. Initialize the bootloader with : > > # fdisk -B /dev/ Erm... You should _not_ mount (as in /sbin/mount) the CF in order to change MBR data; mounting should be restricted to its humano-mechanical part. :-) > 3. This is where I need you help… > > > How can I re-install a boot loader ? > > Should I use the command : > > # fdisk -B -b /boot/boot0 device > > > Any other suggestion, guidance will be welcome. You can use sysinstall for that: Configure, select the CF card to work on, don't chance anything with the slices in the fdisk editor, just make sure the slice is marked active, and in the next step, select the default MBR to be written. The command line way should be: # fdisk -BI /dev/da0 # fdisk -B -b /boot/mbr /dev/da0 (Assumption: /dev/da0 is the CF card.) Note that the first step will re-initialize the card. If you don't want to build it from scratch, i. e. _only_ modify the MBR, the second command should do it. See "man fdisk" for details on the fdisk commands. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Alternative windowmanagers
even much more dated. :-) The fact that twm is still there shows that it didn't lose any of its functionality, and it does it job quite well. Maybe you're interested in having a look at this page: http://www.custompc.plus.com/twm/twmrc.htm Thre are some nice suggestions for customization with screenshots and configuration file examples. > I know that FreeBSD has a metric ton of Window Managers you can install > very easily, and I couldn't tlk about them all, or remember them all, > even if I tried, but I know that it's pretty simple to basically do this: > > pkg_add -r bunchOfWindowManagers moreWindowManagers > > And so on. Or at least that's how I do it normally. Binary installation is a common method of installing programs, nothing wrong here. I'm not sure if I haven't mentioned it yet, but there's also XFCE 3 (using the "old-fashioned" Gtk version 1). If you need a window manager that gives you the look & feel of CDE with its predictability, you should have a look at it. I still have a 300 MHz P2 that runs such a system, and it's still very fast and versatile, even on limited resources: office applications, multimedia, web browsing and programming are _no_ problem on that system. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Mount a ufs partition writable by group wheel?
On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 13:01:58 +0200, Michael M wrote: > Is it possible to mount a ufs partition writable by group wheel? It is. :-) > How would > the fstab entry look? Maybe like this: # Device Mountpoint FStype Options Dump Pass # - - - -- - /dev/da0 /mnt ufsrw 22 The mount point (directory /mnt in this example) has to be +w for wheel, e. g. # chown root:wheel /mnt # chmod u=rwx,g=rwx,o=rx /mnt # mount /mnt That should be _nearly_ the default (FreeBSD/x86 8.2-STABLE here): drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel 512 Feb 18 2011 mnt/ ^ This is where you could use # chmod g+w /mnt to allow writes for members of the wheel group. You may apply further restrictions (e. g. -rx for others) if needed), and maybe "noauto" on the options field. For mounting in general: The user issuing the mount command has to have proper access to the device file (/dev/da0 in this example) _and_ the target directory. See "man mount" and "man fstab" for details. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Mount a ufs partition writable by group wheel?
On Fri, 2 Sep 2011 16:08:08 +0200, Michael M wrote: > Excuse my generic question, I should have asked: > > Can the group rw options for given partition destination be defined in fstab > upon mount? No. The access rights depend on the owner:group permissions of the mountpoint directory. The _act_ of mounting depends on the mounter's ownership of the corresponding device files. So in order to to only allow wheel group members to access a certain mount point for ug=rwx, the permissions of that mount point have to be set. This is done independently from what /etc/fstab is for (which controls the _act_ of mounting if all requirements - as mentioned above - are met). However, there _are_ options that can be included in fstab for applying a certain mask to files contained in a mounted directory, see -m and -M in "man mount_msdosfs" for example. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Possible obsolete entries in /etc/make.conf
On Sun, 4 Sep 2011 07:27:28 -0400, Carmel wrote: > A while ago, at least a year or more I would guess, I saw something > about placing a couple of entries in the "/etc/make.conf" file to > correct a problem with "Firefox". I am currently using Firefox-6.0.1 on > FreeBSD-8.2. These are the entries I am wondering about: > > WITH_MOZILLA=firefox > WITH_GECKO=libxul > > Are they still relevant, or can I just remove them. Honestly, I do not > remember exactly what they do anymore, anyway. I can't name the particular port, but I think I remember that some port required Mozilla (!= Firefox!) as a dependency for using its HTML engine for its help system. Those options prevented the installation of Mozilla and made the port use Firefox instead. This situation appeared when the port that was not seen to have anything to do with web browsing caused the installation of Mozilla, even if Firefox was already installed (and also if it was not). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Best Server OS for Someone That Does not Want to Touch a Shell on a Regular Basis?
On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:47:03 -0400, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote: > Hi, > > so I have a friend who is looking for the best OS for a web server, that > allows to configure services (I guess HTTP, PHP, MySQL and web content) > and do the OS maintenance (OS & package updates, firewall configuration) > without having to touch a shell. I was wondering if something like > PC-BSD + CPanel would be the way to go. Would there be other BSD-based > alternatives? I always do upgrades and configure services through the > shell and I am not aware too much about the GUI alternatives... There are webbased configuration tools that run on common service combinations (like Apache + MySQL + PHP) that can be installed. However _installing_ them requires a skilled person who is able to administrate a server, which in turn traditionally implies the ability to use the command line, even if it's just for that "abstraction job". FreeBSD can be the OS running such a combination. PC-BSD primarily aims at desktop usage, so for example it defaults to KDE, office applications, multimedia stuff and all the things you traditionally won't want on a server. Software solutions that come to mind are CPanel or WebMin. Maybe there are others? I'm not sure as I void those mostly inflexible, error-prone, overcomplicated and dangerous piles of bloat whenever possible. :-) For managing installed applications (ports), there are KDE tools for that (at least _have been_ in the past, not sure if they are still being maintained). The system cannot be updated by a GUI tool (why should it?), but it should be a job of max. 30 minutes to create a Tcl/Tk GUI wrapper for those things. And firewall configuration: I'm quite sure PC-BSD has something for that, except that it probably won't give you the flexibility to automatically change firewall rules depending on different kinds of attacks the server will encounter. Please keep in mind: If you're running a web server, you're part of the target group of thousands of "villains" across the Internet who will happily exploit any weakness you are presenting to them, depending on the services and software you run. What's possible to run will also depend on what kind of server you have. For example if you run a server without any GPU, but PC-BSD depends on hardware-accellerated 3D graphics for managing the firewall, then... you know. :-) There still is a question that your friend should give an answer to himself: Wouldn't it be worth investing in basic UNIX skills and command line operations to gain knowledge and experience to professionally administer a server instead of relying on abstracted layers of abstracted abstractions that GUIs provide here, maybe paying with speed and security loss? It's like driving a car; you _can_ pay a driver to drive your car all the time, but maybe you should consider to learn how to drive yourself. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Best Server OS for Someone That Does not Want to Touch a Shell on a Regular Basis?
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 09:18:21 -0400, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote: > On 09/05/2011 08:31 AM, Polytropon wrote: > > On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 23:47:03 -0400, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> so I have a friend who is looking for the best OS for a web server, that > >> allows to configure services (I guess HTTP, PHP, MySQL and web content) > >> and do the OS maintenance (OS& package updates, firewall configuration) > >> without having to touch a shell. I was wondering if something like > >> PC-BSD + CPanel would be the way to go. Would there be other BSD-based > >> alternatives? I always do upgrades and configure services through the > >> shell and I am not aware too much about the GUI alternatives... > > There are webbased configuration tools that run on common > > service combinations (like Apache + MySQL + PHP) that can > > be installed. However _installing_ them requires a skilled > > person who is able to administrate a server, which in turn > > traditionally implies the ability to use the command line, > > even if it's just for that "abstraction job". > > Well, this part is not an issue, as he will not be the one doing the > initial install of the system Okay, in this case FreeBSD can provide an excellent OS for that purpose. > > PC-BSD primarily aims at desktop usage, so for example it > > defaults to KDE, office applications, multimedia stuff and > > all the things you traditionally won't want on a server. > > But all these can be removed quite easily I guess... I'm not sure about that as those are essential parts of that FreeBSD derivate. It's like you would say to intend to strip all GUI components from "Windows"... :-) However, I think it would be much easier to start with a FreeBSD install and then add those tools you want. I assume this will consume less time (and will be less complicated as you're not about to break something unintendedly). > > Software solutions that come to mind are CPanel or WebMin. > > Maybe there are others? I'm not sure as I void those mostly > > inflexible, error-prone, overcomplicated and dangerous > > piles of bloat whenever possible. :-) > How much security risk do these represent compared to using a Windows > server? What's a "'Windows' server"? Really, I've not come to the conclusion that "Windows" is to be used on _any_ servers, and as I'm not a "Windows" person, I'm the wrong one to ask for details here. >From my own experiences in dealing with the _problems_ "Windows" servers traditionally impose on a network (consisting of UNIX and Linux primarily) that those who have to administer those "Windows" boxes are either in constant trouble (fixing things here and there, rebooting), or just don't care (which often turns their systems into targets for spammers, botnets and all the other unwanted stuff that increases your costs). The main problem of GUI in general is that it _might_ remove control you want, because it basically maps just a subset of possibilities to a "point & grunt" interface. A SUBset - this means that you can encounter a case where you need something, but it can't be achieved per GUI interaction. Oh, that's can also be a downside: With GUI, you are tied to interactive management. You cannot script a GUI thing, you can't automate things. You have to do them yourself, in a linear way. Depending on _what_ you want to do, this should be considered in making an educated choice. > > For managing installed applications (ports), there are > > KDE tools for that (at least _have been_ in the past, > > not sure if they are still being maintained). > Do the PC-BSD package management tools still require KDE? I though they > were removing this dependency? I also thought there would be a tool to manage PBIs from the command line. However, you're free to use the standard FreeBSD installation methods on FreeBSD, which are: binary packages (pkg_add -r), ports subsystem and ports management (like portmaster, portmanager, portupgrade). > > The system > > cannot be updated by a GUI tool (why should it?), but > > it should be a job of max. 30 minutes to create a Tcl/Tk > > GUI wrapper for those things. > > Can PC-BSD OS be updated through a gui? Yes. They do updating per PBI, i. e. you download something using a web browser (ouch!) and then "push da button". In some regards, this is comparable to how Linux manages the "system" (as it makes no difference between "the operating system" and "installed 3rd party software", as _all_ of them are packages, managed by the system's package ins
Re: Re-create MBR
On Mon, 5 Sep 2011 13:26:38 +0100, Graham Bentley wrote: > Hi All, > > I had to install Linux to participate in a project I was involved with. > Now is all finished I have restored the partition but now > need a 3bsd boot sector back. Scheme is ; > > 0 Primary XP > 0 Extended FAT32 > 1 Primary FreeBSD > > Approx 1/3 disc for each. How can I restore the 3bsd > boot sector? See "man fdisk". In your case - depending on device names you are currently using - something _like this_ should do the trick: # fdisk -B /dev/ad0s2 I think you can also use the sysinstall Partition screen to update the boot sector (make no change to the slice listing, maybe mark the FreeBSD slice as "active", then exit the screen and choose either "standard MBR" or the "boot manager" depending on your requirements). As I'm not a multi-boot person, I can't be more specific, sorry. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Best Server OS for Someone That Does not Want to Touch a Shell on a Regular Basis?
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 09:59:23 -0400, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote: > I just took a look at PBDir and the choice of PBIs for server-related > softwares seems to be rather limited. Okay, that's understandable, as servers are not their main target. In fact, what do you need a GUI for on a server? - This is a typical question in such a setting, even though it is _possible_ to run a desktop with server functionality. > They have a PBI for Apache, but I > could not even find one for PHP... To me it seems that if not all the > required softwares are available through PBI, it would be better to drop > the whole PBI idea all together and fall back to the FreeBSD > port/package system. Yes, I would agree with that. PBIs are primarily used to distribute desktop-oriented software in a fashion that a web browser is involved in obtaining them (instead of using comfortable tools like pkg_add or portmaster). > But to go with the FreeBSD route, I will need to > convince my friend of using the command line at least to update the > packages and the OS. That's not a problem! You can easily write a short script that performs the required steps. Really, what's so hard about entering "portmaster -a"? I know it's a bit more complicated to update the system (i. e. following the 11 steps in /usr/src/Makefile), but it's also possible to make a Tcl/Tk GUI wrapper for that. In fact, it's even possible to make a desktop icon for a shell script that performs the required steps. Oh, and just in case you do not intend to update from source, why not use freebsd-update? It's _very_ easy to use, and it can also be included in a GUI wrapper. That would be the way I'd suggest: Install desired packages first with portmaster, keep the system up to date using both portmaster (for ports) and freebsd-update for the OS. (Of course you can choose a different port management tool if you like.) > I am not sure if he will enjoy the usage of tools > such as mergemaster, given that this requires to have a good idea of > what is going on in the config files. The person who runs and administers a server is supposed to know what's going on on the system he is responsible for. You may call me old-fashioned for having such an opinion. :-) But as I mentioned above, you can omit mergemaster use if you keep using the -RELEASE-pX OS branch and use the binary method of freebsd-update. It's as simple as "pkg_add -r". > This might make an OS like Ubuntu > easier to use for my friend, although this is probably not the most > stable and secure OS for a server. There _are_ Linux distributions that provide a lot of GUI even for their server systems. I'm not sure which one it was... Red Hat maybe? Or SuSE? Their server and PC systems are designed to be "compatible" (in terms of GUI presented to the user and the administrator). Regarding Ubuntu, it's a quite nice desktop Linux, but I'm not sure how well it does _perform_ (see: performance) on a server. Maybe you can do some research on Linux server operating systems that emphasize an administration GUI? As I said, I think SuSE or Red Hat has something like that. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Best Server OS for Someone That Does not Want to Touch a Shell on a Regular Basis?
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 10:20:22 -0400, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote: > How well does it work to use binary packages only to maintain a FreeBSD > web server in general (I am thinking of package availability, but also > and in particular as a quasi-automated updating tool)? Quite well - as long as you're satisfied with the default building options. You know that a binary package is a port, compiled with the default set of options. This is okay in most cases, but there may be situations where you explicitely need to enable or disable a certain feature at compile time. You also may encounter a situation where _no_ package is available for a port (e. g. too many options, or licensing restrictions). This can be solved by portmaster which has an option to go through all interactive configuration screens _before_ starting any action. Those settings can be saved for the next update run. The portmaster program itself can be instructed to _use_ binary packages (just as pkg_add -r would do) with the -P and -PP options. In this case, binary packages will be used as long as possible, and only those ports that require building (as no package exists) will be compiled. See "man portmaster" for details. This is a good approach in combination with freebsd-update. I have used that concept on some servers myself (especially on smaller ones with low resources where compiling would be too problematic). > I noticed that in > the past few years, updating softwares through ports has been requiring > more user intervention, due to the way some dependencies are being > updated from one version to the next. Would using binary packages allow > to avoid more such user intervention? Yes. All dependencies would be incorporated automatically. Only ports without equivalent package that additionally have OPTIONS to set would invoke a configuration screen, and this screen would have to be dealt with only in the first run of the updating process. There are also options for portmaster that can be used to control program behaviour in case of problems (e. g. some package not found, conflicting ports, versioning problem, or port marked "broken"). Those solutions can also easily be scripted, e. g. check one a week for possible updates and get the packages, but do not install them automatically (which can be a security requirement). If the list is approved, the updates will be installed during night, creating a "fallback copy" just in case something went wrong (e. g. malfunctioning new software). Reports can be generated automatically and mailed to the system administrator. I would also suggest to frequently check the mailing lists of the software in use for bugs and security updates that might be interesting in terms of system security. This sould be done for any "major server software" (Apache, PHP, MySQL and the services utilizing those software, whatever you want to run on the server). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Best Server OS for Someone That Does not Want to Touch a Shell on a Regular Basis?
On Mon, 05 Sep 2011 10:50:19 -0400, Pierre-Luc Drouin wrote: > > >> I noticed that in > >> the past few years, updating softwares through ports has been requiring > >> more user intervention, due to the way some dependencies are being > >> updated from one version to the next. Would using binary packages allow > >> to avoid more such user intervention? > > Yes. All dependencies would be incorporated automatically. > > Only ports without equivalent package that additionally have > > OPTIONS to set would invoke a configuration screen, and this > > screen would have to be dealt with only in the first run of > > the updating process. > > > > There are also options for portmaster that can be used to > > control program behaviour in case of problems (e. g. some > > package not found, conflicting ports, versioning problem, > > or port marked "broken"). > > > So, what I was referring to in particulars was special updates like this: > 20110517: >AFFECTS: users of lang/perl* >AUTHOR: s...@freebsd.org > >lang/perl5.14 is out. If you want to switch to it from, for example >lang/perl5.12, that is: > >Portupgrade users: > 0) Fix pkgdb.db (for safety): > pkgdb -Ff > > 1) Reinstall new version of Perl (5.14): > env DISABLE_CONFLICTS=1 portupgrade -o lang/perl5.14 -f > perl-5.12.\* > > 2) Reinstall everything that depends on Perl: > portupgrade -fr perl > > So you are saying that this type of special interventions is not > necessary when using only binary packages, right? Erm... no, or basically yes. :-) First of all, the example here refers to portupgrade, not to portmaster. The DISABLE_CONFLICTS variable is only required where something is built from source. By using packages, you can even _force_ installation of (maybe conflicting) packages, implying of course that this may cause damage. In _worst_ cases, there's the option to forcedly deinstall packages and then re-install them (in a newer version), this may be useful when the upgrade path is too much trouble. Coming back to that example: If you order portmaster to upgrade perl, you will traditionally also upgrade all ports depending on it. And if this is possible via packages (-P, -PP), it will "reconstruct" the dependencies properly so all programs can use the new perl version. However, as I've turned into a "compile guy" due to sufficient hardware, I usually use source-based updates when needed. I don't update my home system very often, because I'd like to keep it in a functional state. :-) So I've not come across that particular update yet, as I still have perl-threaded-5.10.1_4 installed, and there's nothing here that requires 5.12 or 5.14. When you choose to use portupgrade instead of portmaster, it's a good choice to always run "pkgdb -aF" before and after anything you do (e. g. also "around" a pkg_add -r command). I've been using portupgrade in the past, but today I prefer "just ports" (home) and portmaster (work). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
