Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Jim Hall]

Resurrecting this bit of discussion from June, as I get caught up on
list matters. :-)

> On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
>
>> I'm still reviewing the packages to ensure they're all open source
>> compliant.
>>
>> What are we considering acceptable in this regard? Are we going only with
>> software which has been made available under one of the GNU licenses
>> exclusively? Obviously programs which are free but have no source available
>> should be excluded (e.g. Pegasus) but if the source code is freely
>> available and/or public, yet not explicitly released under the GPL, does
>> this also suffice for inclusion?


On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Steve Nickolas  wrote:
> Personally - this is just my opinion - I would use this guideline: a
> program is open source if the source is freely available to use, modify
> and redistribute (in any combination, commercially or noncommercially).
> Or, in other words, the same idea as
> https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html .
>
> That's just my opinion though.


FreeDOS has always used the slightly more liberal view of "open source
software" v "free software." Certainly my view is that FreeDOS needs
to include source code, otherwise why are we creating a "Free" DOS?
But the license doesn't need to be from the Free Software Foundation
(GNU GPL). FreeDOS programs that are GNU GPL, or BSD, or MIT, etc. are
all fine.

In the past, we had included some programs that didn't include source
code, but allowed users to install it and use it and share it. This
was great at the time, and we went there. That's why we added a few
programs like Pegasys Mail. But as time goes on, we've been stung by
one or two instances where not having the source code caused a
problem. So now, my goal is the FreeDOS 1.2 distribution should *only*
include programs that provide source code (GPL, BSD, MIT, etc.) If the
program is "freeware" (binary only, no source code) I don't think it
should be in the FreeDOS distribution.

That's the official FreeDOS 1.2 distribution, of course. I've always
supported people who want to create their own "spin" of the FreeDOS
distribution, and include their own software. That's still cool.
FreeDOS is free, and you should be free to share and remix per the
license. So if someone else wants to create an "unofficial" FreeDOS
distribution that includes some "no source code" freeware, go for it.


Jim

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Thomas Mueller]

I too would like to be able to install FreeDOS from a USB stick or from iso 
image that could be booted from Syslinux, Grub4DOS or GRUB2.

I would likely install FreeDOS to USB stick.

I don't know yet how FreeDOS 1.2 will boot; Syslinux has the advantage of being 
usable to boot other images/partitions as well as FreeDOS, or even a newer, 
future FreeDOS kernel.

I assume only a very small minority of FreeDOS users will use FreeDOS 
exclusively.

Is WATT-32 not included in the upcoming FreeDOS 1.2?  Or is some part of 
WATT-32 (watt-32.net) not open-source?

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

On Thu, Jun 25, 2015 at 6:03 AM, Thomas Mueller mueler6...@twc.com wrote:

 ...

 Is WATT-32 not included in the upcoming FreeDOS 1.2?  Or is some part of
 WATT-32 (watt-32.net) not open-source?

 ...


Wow, I forgot all about WATT-32. Actually, since it was the official
FreeDOS.org software list that I was working off of, I guess FD.org forgot
about it too lol

I'll work on adding that. Thanks!
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:

 ...

 * CuteMouse needs fixing to avoid closed-source COM2EXE (already done
 locally, but no response from maintainer)
 * Jemm386 needs to remove JLOAD and similar closed-source pieces (no
 maintainer)
 * UIDE and XMGR from 2011? eh?? if we're going to include this at all,
 at least use 03-05-2015 (no maintainer)
 * remove Pacific C, it's closed source (I had thought Jim already
 agreed to that) (no maintainer)
 * Mined has a newer version (2015.25)
 * FDShell? it's not in the Software List at all, but meh whatever
 * Lynx 2.8.8?? [sic] if you're really including that, make sure to
 include (mandatory) dependencies mentioned in Juan Manuel Guerrero's
 comp.os.msdos.djgpp announcement (e.g. two DXEs, maybe other stuff)
 * CompInfo? seriously, why do we still include that at all? does it even
 work??
 * Ranish? I forget the details, is this open source?? or was that just
 the older version??
 * remove TTF2FNT, it's a Win32 GUI app!!

 ...


This is great, just the type of feedback I need. Thanks!
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

Since it's not directly executable and the rest of the platform is 16-bit,
I suppose there's no need for it to be included as well.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Rugxulo]

Hi again,

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Jun 24, 2015 1:27 PM, Mercury Thirteen mercury0x0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes, I had found that but I was looking specifically for code
 to version 2.09c. I suppose this may do, though, thank you.

 It's the exact same source code, only a recompile was done (AFAIK).

A quick check shows these already existing on iBiblio:

./distributions/1.1/repos/util/srdisk.zip
./distributions/1.0/pkgs/srdisks.zip
./distributions/1.0/pkgs/srdiskx.zip

But I think I'll mirror the ones from SF.net explicitly, esp. since
it's already included under UTIL.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/srdisk/

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/ramdisk/srdisk/

I really do think I read recently that it's the exact same source
code. But the only way to find out for sure is to either recompile
yourself or email the author directly. (But it's highly unlikely that
he's still around after so many years.)

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Mercury Thirteen
mercury0x0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Attached is the list of everything in the new distro. [list.txt , 4 kb]

Just a quick look (at your list only, not the actual .ZIP) with a few
quick comments:

* CuteMouse needs fixing to avoid closed-source COM2EXE (already done
locally, but no response from maintainer)
* Jemm386 needs to remove JLOAD and similar closed-source pieces (no maintainer)
* UIDE and XMGR from 2011? eh?? if we're going to include this at all,
at least use 03-05-2015 (no maintainer)
* remove Pacific C, it's closed source (I had thought Jim already
agreed to that) (no maintainer)
* Mined has a newer version (2015.25)
* FDShell? it's not in the Software List at all, but meh whatever
* Lynx 2.8.8?? [sic] if you're really including that, make sure to
include (mandatory) dependencies mentioned in Juan Manuel Guerrero's
comp.os.msdos.djgpp announcement (e.g. two DXEs, maybe other stuff)
* CompInfo? seriously, why do we still include that at all? does it even work??
* Ranish? I forget the details, is this open source?? or was that just
the older version??
* remove TTF2FNT, it's a Win32 GUI app!!

Honestly, most stuff has no maintainer anymore, so I'm not sure why I
mention that. So we have to do everything ourselves, which (as I
already mentioned) means either partially deleting problematic pieces
or dropping them entirely.

There are other minor quibbles, but that's probably worrying
excessively for little gain.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

Okay, that's the way I will proceed.

Also, I am removing Necromancer's DOS Navigator due to being closed-source.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Mercury Thirteen
mercury0x0...@gmail.com wrote:

 Also, also (lol) I am not finding any source for SRDisk. FreeDOS.org lists
 it as GPL, its own documentation lists it as copyrighted. Perhaps the
 initial version was GPL and it later forked over to an author-copyrighted
 license? Not sure, but I'm inclined to remove it altogether.

 Any thoughts/comments?

1). http://www.freedos.org/software/?prog=srdisk
2). http://sourceforge.net/projects/srdisk/files/srdisk/

Apparently the sources are under 2.09/: srsrc209.zip . Thus 2.09c is
just a binary recompile (or such).

 Also, I am removing Necromancer's DOS Navigator due to being
 closed-source.

There are other Dos Navigator clones that are open source (DN/2,
DNOSP), even including the original (DN151). But it's probably not
crucially important to include anyways.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

Yes, I had found that but I was looking specifically for code to version
2.09c. I suppose this may do, though, thank you.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Mercury Thirteen
 mercury0x0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  Also, also (lol) I am not finding any source for SRDisk. FreeDOS.org
 lists
  it as GPL, its own documentation lists it as copyrighted. Perhaps the
  initial version was GPL and it later forked over to an author-copyrighted
  license? Not sure, but I'm inclined to remove it altogether.
 
  Any thoughts/comments?

 1). http://www.freedos.org/software/?prog=srdisk
 2). http://sourceforge.net/projects/srdisk/files/srdisk/

 Apparently the sources are under 2.09/: srsrc209.zip . Thus 2.09c is
 just a binary recompile (or such).

  Also, I am removing Necromancer's DOS Navigator due to being
  closed-source.

 There are other Dos Navigator clones that are open source (DN/2,
 DNOSP), even including the original (DN151). But it's probably not
 crucially important to include anyways.


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

Also, also (lol) I am not finding any source for SRDisk. FreeDOS.org lists
it as GPL, its own documentation lists it as copyrighted. Perhaps the
initial version was GPL and it later forked over to an author-copyrighted
license? Not sure, but I'm inclined to remove it altogether.

Any thoughts/comments?



On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 2:04 PM, Mercury Thirteen mercury0x0...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Okay, that's the way I will proceed.

 Also, I am removing Necromancer's DOS Navigator due to being closed-source.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Ralf Quint]

On 6/24/2015 11:07 AM, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
 Also, also (lol) I am not finding any source for SRDisk. FreeDOS.org 
 lists it as GPL, its own documentation lists it as copyrighted. 
 Perhaps the initial version was GPL and it later forked over to an 
 author-copyrighted license? Not sure, but I'm inclined to remove it 
 altogether.
GPL licensed software is always copyrighted by default. In fact, 
non-copyrighted software can not be licensed with any GPL version...

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

Ah, ok. Maybe I was expecting to see copyleft lol

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Ralf Quint freedos...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6/24/2015 11:07 AM, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
  Also, also (lol) I am not finding any source for SRDisk. FreeDOS.org
  lists it as GPL, its own documentation lists it as copyrighted.
  Perhaps the initial version was GPL and it later forked over to an
  author-copyrighted license? Not sure, but I'm inclined to remove it
  altogether.
 GPL licensed software is always copyrighted by default. In fact,
 non-copyrighted software can not be licensed with any GPL version...

 Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU]

Should we make FreeDOS able to install from a usb?It seems hardwired to
install from the CD.Perhaps this should be an added update to the 1.2 CD.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Ralf Quint freedos...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6/24/2015 11:07 AM, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
  Also, also (lol) I am not finding any source for SRDisk. FreeDOS.org
  lists it as GPL, its own documentation lists it as copyrighted.
  Perhaps the initial version was GPL and it later forked over to an
  author-copyrighted license? Not sure, but I'm inclined to remove it
  altogether.
 GPL licensed software is always copyrighted by default. In fact,
 non-copyrighted software can not be licensed with any GPL version...

 Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

That would be up to Jim to include in his installer. Sounds like a good
feature to have if possible.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 2:48 PM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU 
jcharbonnea...@cpsge.org wrote:

 Should we make FreeDOS able to install from a usb?It seems hardwired to
 install from the CD.Perhaps this should be an added update to the 1.2 CD.

 On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Ralf Quint freedos...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6/24/2015 11:07 AM, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
  Also, also (lol) I am not finding any source for SRDisk. FreeDOS.org
  lists it as GPL, its own documentation lists it as copyrighted.
  Perhaps the initial version was GPL and it later forked over to an
  author-copyrighted license? Not sure, but I'm inclined to remove it
  altogether.
 GPL licensed software is always copyrighted by default. In fact,
 non-copyrighted software can not be licensed with any GPL version...

 Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU]

Yeah.It does.

On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Mercury Thirteen mercury0x0...@gmail.com
wrote:

 That would be up to Jim to include in his installer. Sounds like a good
 feature to have if possible.

 On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 2:48 PM, JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU 
 jcharbonnea...@cpsge.org wrote:

 Should we make FreeDOS able to install from a usb?It seems hardwired to
 install from the CD.Perhaps this should be an added update to the 1.2 CD.

 On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 11:44 AM, Ralf Quint freedos...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 On 6/24/2015 11:07 AM, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
  Also, also (lol) I am not finding any source for SRDisk. FreeDOS.org
  lists it as GPL, its own documentation lists it as copyrighted.
  Perhaps the initial version was GPL and it later forked over to an
  author-copyrighted license? Not sure, but I'm inclined to remove it
  altogether.
 GPL licensed software is always copyrighted by default. In fact,
 non-copyrighted software can not be licensed with any GPL version...

 Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

Attached is the list of everything in the new distro.
Package NameVersion

[Base]
Append  5.0-0.6
Apropos (Part of FastHelp suite)1.1
Assign  1.4
Attrib  2.1
Chkdsk  0.9.2
Choice  4.4
Command 0.84 
pre 2
Comp1.04
Cpidos  3.0
Cutemouse   2.1 
beta4
Debug   1.25
Defrag  1.3.2
Deltree 
1.02g.mrlg
Devload 3.25
Diskcomp
06jun2003
Diskcopybeta 
0.95
Display 0.13
Dosfsck 2.11c
Edit0.9a
Edlin   2.15
Exe2bin 1.5
Fasthelp (Part of FastHelp suite)   3.5
Fasthelp Suite  2004
Fc  
3.03
Fdapm   
2009sep11
Fdisk   1.3.1
Fdxms286
0.03.Temperaments
Find3.0 (22 
Sep 2007)
Format  0.91v 
(14 Jan 2006)
Graphics
2008jul14
Help1.0.7a
Himemx  3.32
Jemm386 5.75
KC  
2.0
Kernel  2041 
(FAT12/FAT16/FAT32, 8086+)
Keyb2.01
KPDOS   3.1
Label   1.4b
Lbacache
2008-04-07
Mem 
1.11
Mirror  0.2
Mode
12may2005
More4.3
Move3.3a
Nansi   4.0d 
(2007may26)
Nlsfunc 0.4
Print   1.02ea
Recover 0.1 
(BETA)
Replace 1.2
Share   0.99
Shsucdx 3.05
Sort1.4 (23 
Sep 2007)
Swsubst 3.2
Tree3.7.2
Uide
2011-10-16
Undelete
2004-01-19
Unformat0.8
WhatIs (Part of FastHelp suite) 1.1
Xcopy   1.4
Xmgr
2011-06-11



[Boot]
Blackout
1997-03-04
Bootmgr  

Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Mercury Thirteen
mercury0x0...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm still reviewing the packages to ensure they're all open source
 compliant.

 What are we considering acceptable in this regard? Are we going only with
 software which has been made available under one of the GNU licenses
 exclusively? Obviously programs which are free but have no source available
 should be excluded (e.g. Pegasus) but if the source code is freely available
 and/or public, yet not explicitly released under the GPL, does this also
 suffice for inclusion?

Mercury, I'm sure we all appreciate your work here. It's very tedious
and difficult, so any efforts from you are very welcome. However, I've
not even downloaded your archive myself. Too exhausting, especially
trying to vet thousands of files and licenses.

Long story short: I'm pretty sure Jim Hall (as official project head)
only wants free/libre, aka four freedoms. Which here, at least,
means only stuff that is 100% approved by FSF or OSI, if at all
possible.

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
http://opensource.org/licenses/category

Honestly, it's almost a lost battle. Without many active maintainers
of various programs, there's not much else we can do. So we can't
relicense anything. We can only rewrite key pieces (unlikely) or
remove them entirely (painful).

This is why it's probably best to keep to a minimum, at first, and
expand upon it later, instead of including everything and the kitchen
sink.

--
Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
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for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

I'm still reviewing the packages to ensure they're all open source
compliant.

What are we considering acceptable in this regard? Are we going only with
software which has been made available under one of the GNU licenses
exclusively? Obviously programs which are free but have no source available
should be excluded (e.g. Pegasus) but if the source code is freely
available and/or public, yet not explicitly released under the GPL, does
this also suffice for inclusion?



On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 1:38 PM, sparky4 spar...@cock.li wrote:

 Hmm I am sorry for late reply!!

 I will check it out~



 --
 View this message in context:
 http://freedos.10956.n7.nabble.com/FreeDOS-1-2-package-compilation-tp22618p22903.html
 Sent from the FreeDOS - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


 --
 Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
 OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
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 for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Steve Nickolas]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Mercury Thirteen wrote:

 I'm still reviewing the packages to ensure they're all open source
 compliant.

 What are we considering acceptable in this regard? Are we going only with
 software which has been made available under one of the GNU licenses
 exclusively? Obviously programs which are free but have no source available
 should be excluded (e.g. Pegasus) but if the source code is freely
 available and/or public, yet not explicitly released under the GPL, does
 this also suffice for inclusion?

Personally - this is just my opinion - I would use this guideline: a 
program is open source if the source is freely available to use, modify 
and redistribute (in any combination, commercially or noncommercially). 
Or, in other words, the same idea as 
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html .

That's just my opinion though.

-uso.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

I would tend to agree; GPL / public domain /
source-code-free-and-available-at-no-cost options are all viable in my
mind, but I want to 1) make sure I perform this task to the standards of
the project's leader and the community to which I have volunteered and 2)
avoid a potential user out there thinking something like, Well, I *would*
choose FreeDOS, but not all its components are GPL code.

My problem is FreeDOS may end up being used in any number of capacities
(commercial, private, industrial, etc.) and this isn't my project so I'm
not sure how strict we want to be - e.g. I would hate to see our markets or
user base narrowed over one single choice.

Jim, what is your input on this?



On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Steve Nickolas usots...@buric.co wrote:

 On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Mercury Thirteen wrote:

  I'm still reviewing the packages to ensure they're all open source
  compliant.
 
  What are we considering acceptable in this regard? Are we going only with
  software which has been made available under one of the GNU licenses
  exclusively? Obviously programs which are free but have no source
 available
  should be excluded (e.g. Pegasus) but if the source code is freely
  available and/or public, yet not explicitly released under the GPL, does
  this also suffice for inclusion?

 Personally - this is just my opinion - I would use this guideline: a
 program is open source if the source is freely available to use, modify
 and redistribute (in any combination, commercially or noncommercially).
 Or, in other words, the same idea as
 https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html .

 That's just my opinion though.

 -uso.


 --
 Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
 OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
 network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms
 for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
 http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
 ___
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 Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Steve Nickolas]

On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Mercury Thirteen wrote:

 I guess I didn't scroll up enough to read your reply! Sorry about that, and
 thanks for the input. :)

 So, you're saying we should only use 100% GPL software, yes?

 I can easily go through and pull the affected packages; I really don't
 think there are that many remaining, so going with GPL-only programs
 doesn't put us in too big of a hurt.

BSD, X11, etc. are fine too, no? As well as other licenses so long as they 
are in fact open source licenses, and not just source licenses.

-uso.

--
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

Yes, they should be. I think they are all mostly the same as the GPL, but
I'm not certain. For the time being, I'll just remove the closed source
packages and leave all the public domain and source-freely-available
programs. If there's an issue, I can always pull more stuff out later on.

On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 4:29 PM, Steve Nickolas usots...@buric.co wrote:

 On Tue, 23 Jun 2015, Mercury Thirteen wrote:

  I guess I didn't scroll up enough to read your reply! Sorry about that,
 and
  thanks for the input. :)
 
  So, you're saying we should only use 100% GPL software, yes?
 
  I can easily go through and pull the affected packages; I really don't
  think there are that many remaining, so going with GPL-only programs
  doesn't put us in too big of a hurt.

 BSD, X11, etc. are fine too, no? As well as other licenses so long as they
 are in fact open source licenses, and not just source licenses.

 -uso.


 --
 Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
 OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
 network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms
 for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
 http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
 ___
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 Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

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OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms 
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

I guess I didn't scroll up enough to read your reply! Sorry about that, and
thanks for the input. :)

So, you're saying we should only use 100% GPL software, yes?

I can easily go through and pull the affected packages; I really don't
think there are that many remaining, so going with GPL-only programs
doesn't put us in too big of a hurt.



On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 2:26 PM, Rugxulo rugx...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 1:17 PM, Mercury Thirteen
 mercury0x0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I'm still reviewing the packages to ensure they're all open source
  compliant.
 
  What are we considering acceptable in this regard? Are we going only with
  software which has been made available under one of the GNU licenses
  exclusively? Obviously programs which are free but have no source
 available
  should be excluded (e.g. Pegasus) but if the source code is freely
 available
  and/or public, yet not explicitly released under the GPL, does this also
  suffice for inclusion?

 Mercury, I'm sure we all appreciate your work here. It's very tedious
 and difficult, so any efforts from you are very welcome. However, I've
 not even downloaded your archive myself. Too exhausting, especially
 trying to vet thousands of files and licenses.

 Long story short: I'm pretty sure Jim Hall (as official project head)
 only wants free/libre, aka four freedoms. Which here, at least,
 means only stuff that is 100% approved by FSF or OSI, if at all
 possible.

 http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
 http://opensource.org/licenses/category

 Honestly, it's almost a lost battle. Without many active maintainers
 of various programs, there's not much else we can do. So we can't
 relicense anything. We can only rewrite key pieces (unlikely) or
 remove them entirely (painful).

 This is why it's probably best to keep to a minimum, at first, and
 expand upon it later, instead of including everything and the kitchen
 sink.


 --
 Monitor 25 network devices or servers for free with OpManager!
 OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors
 network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms
 for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
 http://ad.doubleclick.net/ddm/clk/292181274;119417398;o
 ___
 Freedos-devel mailing list
 Freedos-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel

--
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OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms 
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Thomas Mueller]

from Mercury Thirteen:

 Yes, they should be. I think they are all mostly the same as the GPL, but
 I'm not certain. For the time being, I'll just remove the closed source
 packages and leave all the public domain and source-freely-available
 programs. If there's an issue, I can always pull more stuff out later on.

That makes the most sense.  Software that is genuinely open-source should be 
eligible even if licensing is not GPL.

There is difference of opinion in the open-source community on various 
open-source licenses, and arguments both for and against GPL.

FreeBSD is one example of a non-GPL open-source OS (BSD license) but is just as 
legitimately open-source as FreeDOS.

Tom



--
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OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms 
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[sparky4]

Hmm I am sorry for late reply!!

I will check it out~



--
View this message in context: 
http://freedos.10956.n7.nabble.com/FreeDOS-1-2-package-compilation-tp22618p22903.html
Sent from the FreeDOS - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
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OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
network devices and physical  virtual servers, alerts via email  sms 
for fault. Monitor 25 devices for free with no restriction. Download now
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[sparky4]

I personally think it is great!



--
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http://freedos.10956.n7.nabble.com/FreeDOS-1-2-package-compilation-tp22618p22904.html
Sent from the FreeDOS - Dev mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

--
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OpManager is web-based network management software that monitors 
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU]

The installer.We should add a more...'friendly' interface to it.Mostof the
installer is a bunch of keypresses and text on the screen after you select
the packages to install.(I myself often forget which keys to press).

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Mercury Thirteen mercury0x0...@gmail.com
wrote:

 I'm removing the Pegasus mail app due to it being closed source.


 --

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Antony Gordon]

Perhaps it should take a cue from the MSDOS installer - prepare the drive
and copy over there core OS. Then at the end of the core install, prompt
for the additional stuff

On Sun, Jun 21, 2015, 12:47 PM JAYDEN CHARBONNEAU jcharbonnea...@cpsge.org
wrote:

 The installer.We should add a more...'friendly' interface to it.Mostof the
 installer is a bunch of keypresses and text on the screen after you select
 the packages to install.(I myself often forget which keys to press).

 On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 2:07 PM, Mercury Thirteen mercury0x0...@gmail.com
  wrote:

 I'm removing the Pegasus mail app due to it being closed source.


 --

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 https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-devel



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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

That list doesn't contain version information; doing so will require more
time.

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 9:40 AM, Mercury Thirteen mercury0x0...@gmail.com
wrote:

 On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste.fr wrote:

 On 18/06/2015 15:02, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
  No, it's not all that different, just fleshed out and more complete.

 What do you mean by 'fleshed out'? And more complete how?


 Fleshed out and more complete in that I went through every package by hand
 and updated all the old ones to the newest versions if available and
 updated / corrected the LSM files.


 Could you please provide some list of packages+version from your distro,
 so I could compare with what's in FDNPKG? If there are new packages you
 created for FreeDOS, I'd be happy to import them into FDNPKG.


 See the attached list.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

I'm already on it, that was just my quick in-the-middle-of-work way of
saying I'll have to post that later on.

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 9:49 AM, Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de wrote:


 Hi Mercury,

  That list doesn't contain version information; doing so will require more
  time.

 Please invest that time: Having version information will
 make it easier to know if you have the newest version for
 both installing packages and for updating the collection.

 Regards, Eric

  Fleshed out and more complete in that I went through every package by
 hand
  and updated all the old ones to the newest versions if available and
  updated / corrected the LSM files.
 
  Could you please provide some list of packages+version from your distro,
  so I could compare with what's in FDNPKG? If there are new packages you
  created for FreeDOS, I'd be happy to import them into FDNPKG.





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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 9:12 AM, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste.fr wrote:

 On 18/06/2015 15:02, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
  No, it's not all that different, just fleshed out and more complete.

 What do you mean by 'fleshed out'? And more complete how?


Fleshed out and more complete in that I went through every package by hand
and updated all the old ones to the newest versions if available and
updated / corrected the LSM files.


Could you please provide some list of packages+version from your distro,
 so I could compare with what's in FDNPKG? If there are new packages you
 created for FreeDOS, I'd be happy to import them into FDNPKG.


See the attached list.
[Base]
Append
Assign
Attrib
Chkdsk
Choice
Command
Comp
Cpidos
Cutemouse
Debug
Defrag
Deltree
Devload
Diskcomp
Diskcopy
Display
Dosfsck
Edit
Edlin
Exe2bin
Fasthelp
Fc
Fdapm
Fdisk
Fdxms286
Find
Format
Graphics
Help
Himemx
Jemm386
Kernel
Keyb
Label
Lbacache
Mem
Mirror
Mode
Move
Nansi
Nlsfunc
Print
Recover
Replace
Share
Shsucdx
Sort
Swsubst
Tree
Uide
Undelete
Unformat
Xcopy
Xmgr

[Boot]
Blackout
Bootmgr
Bootsplash
Grub4dos
MetaKern
SmBtMgr
Syslinux
XOSL

[Dev]
4th
BASEC
Bin2C
BWBASIC
CC386
CLib
DFlat
DMake
FAsm
FreeBASIC
FreePascal
Frm-Init
Insight
JWAsm
Kitten
Lib
NAsm
OpenWatcom
Pacific-C
PDCurses
Rexx
S-Lang
SmallBASIC
Suppl
UPX-UCL
Val
WAsm
XHarbour
YAsm

[Edit]
Blocek
FED
Freemacs
Mined
OSPEdit
SETEdit
TDE
VIM

[GUI]
FDShell
OpenGEM

[Net]
Arachne
Code
eRTOS
FDSMTPOP
FreeXP
Gopherus
LeetIRC
LSPPP
Lynx
MIME64
MTCP
OpenXP
Pegasus
SSH2DOS
Terminal
WattTCP

[Sound]
ABCMIDI
DRTrack
ID3Tools
LAME
MIDIPlay
MPXPlay
Normalize
OpenCubic
RealMIDI
SBMix

[Util]
4DOS
7-Zip
Arj
BZip2
C-Lock
CabExtract
Cal
CDRCache
CMOS
CompInfo
DirStack
Dog
DOS32A
DOSLFN
DOSZip
DU
FDAV
FDNPkg
FDShield
Fips
FoxCalc
FoxType
GZip
Head
LFNDOS
LoadFont
LoadHi
Locate
MD5Sum
MKeyb
MoreSys
NDN
NRO
Password
PCISleep
PDTree
PG
PowerPaint
Ranish
RARead
ROMDisk
ROMOS
RunTime
SetLock
ShExt
SHSUFDRV
Sleep
Spool
SRDisk
Stamp
Start
SwitChar
Tail
TAr
TDsk
Tee
TopSpin
Touch
TrCh
TTF2FNT
UnRAR
UnZIP
Uptime
USBDOS
VMSMount
WCD
Which
XGREP
XKeyb
ZIP--
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Eric Auer]

Hi Mercury,

 That list doesn't contain version information; doing so will require more
 time.

Please invest that time: Having version information will
make it easier to know if you have the newest version for
both installing packages and for updating the collection.

Regards, Eric

 Fleshed out and more complete in that I went through every package by hand
 and updated all the old ones to the newest versions if available and
 updated / corrected the LSM files.

 Could you please provide some list of packages+version from your distro,
 so I could compare with what's in FDNPKG? If there are new packages you
 created for FreeDOS, I'd be happy to import them into FDNPKG.




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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mateusz Viste]

On 18/06/2015 15:02, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
 No, it's not all that different, just fleshed out and more complete.

What do you mean by 'fleshed out'? And more complete how?

Could you please provide some list of packages+version from your distro, 
so I could compare with what's in FDNPKG? If there are new packages you 
created for FreeDOS, I'd be happy to import them into FDNPKG.

Mateusz


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

I'm removing the Pegasus mail app due to it being closed source.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 8:39 PM, Ralf Quint freedos...@gmail.com wrote:


  Input? Well, do you really think that people download  281MB ZIP file,
 one that also alerts most anti-virus software due to some of it's contents,
 without knowing what this is about?

 How's that for input?

 Ralf


That input is about par for the course here. Perhaps I was amiss in my
assumption that the subject line would explain exactly what this is
about, especially when posted by the person who - according to FreeDOS.org
- has volunteered to put together the new FreeDOS 1.2 distribution.



On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 11:56 PM, Louis Santillan lpsan...@gmail.com
wrote:


 * I don't know if the permissions were set by you or the original zip
 files, but they're messed up in several place, at least with respect to
 *nix.  Some are set to 555.  Not sure why execute bit is even set anywhere
 at all.


I'm not quite sure there. I made this under Windows, so I would guess it
was the original ZIP files which had those bits set? I can fix that if it's
an issue


* It's large (1.1GB decompressed).


Yeah, I hear you there lol But I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing.
The compressed ZIP is under a few hundred megs and the installer should be
able to extract only the parts required without ever having to unzip the
entire package.


* Lots of files/folders are not in 8.3 compliant or could have a different
 file name depending on the DOS version used to view the CD


I was operating under the impression that the installer would be LFN
compliant. If that's not the case, I can fix the offending file names with
no problem.


* Is it really necessary to have both the *x.zip (binaries) and  *s.zip
 (source) extracted in this tree?


I extracted everything to achieve better compression. The installer should
only be extracting what it needs from this package, and could even
theoretically extract then ZIP the sources, if the user desired.


* I would argue just a list of the packages (in CSV format), and their
 attributes (LSM attribute, plus other review criteria, has LICENSE, has
 SOURCE, etc.) would have sufficed over producing a large zip file.


Possibly, but I opted to make everything available for you all here to help
catch potential errors I may have made.



On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 12:42 AM, Antony Gordon cuzint...@gmail.com wrote:


 That was a HUGE zip file (once uncompressed).


No kidding! I was honestly surprised there was that much DOS material to
choose from.


I’m just glad I use a sandbox for stuff like this, that zip file was like a
 box of chocolates…


Yeah, I had two false positives (or what I optimistically assume are such)
myself. I presume this is due to the low level nature of the programs in
question. For example, one was Touch.exe which intentionally alters the
date and time stamps of files. This also just happens to be a technique
used by viruses.


That being said…that much stuff comes on the FreeDOS full CD image?


Not necessarily. I worked off the official software list as posted on
FreeDOS.org. Many packages were a part of the original 1.1 release, but
lots have been added after that point as well. The *Dev* category is easily
the largest, comprising about two thirds (over 600 MB) of the image's
overall size.


 It kind of reminds me of the old Linux distributions that would ship a
 distribution on one CD and then a separate CD that was a snapshot of the
 Linux parts of various FTP sites.
 I guess when you have almost 700MB to fill, you gotta do something.


I guess so lol



On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Antony Gordon cuzint...@gmail.com wrote:


 What I think would be useful would be an Xcode/Visual Studio type of
 environment that includes all of the recommended build tools setup with a
 batch file to set paths to have the tools work from any location on the
 hard drive.

 This can be used to rebuild the OS or to develop new applications for the
 OS.


That sounds useful. If someone wants to make such an animal, I'd be glad to
throw it in.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Ralf Quint]

On 6/2/2015 7:39 PM, Louis Santillan wrote:
 I'm not of this effort, but, Ralf, what are you using to scan for 
 viruses?

Got the alert from Avast here on my Windows 8.1 laptop, got the same 
warning for AVG and Norton on two customer PCs.
Ended up downloading it with AV disabled in a sandbox.

Still think that asking people to download a 281MB file just on a lark, 
without knowing what it is, is not the right thing to do...

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Ralf Quint]

On 6/2/2015 5:09 PM, Mercury Thirteen wrote:
Everyone take a look at this ZIP 
http://mercurycoding.com/FreeDOS/FreeDOS-1.2.zip and let me know 
your feedback. Anything which shouldn't be included? Anything which 
should but wasn't? There's a few non-open source programs I didn't 
catch for removal.


Let me know your input.

Input? Well, do you really think that people download  281MB ZIP file, 
one that also alerts most anti-virus software due to some of it's 
contents, without knowing what this is about?


How's that for input?

Ralf


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[Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Mercury Thirteen]

Everyone take a look at this ZIP
http://mercurycoding.com/FreeDOS/FreeDOS-1.2.zip and let me know your
feedback. Anything which shouldn't be included? Anything which should but
wasn't? There's a few non-open source programs I didn't catch for removal.

Let me know your input.
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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Louis Santillan]

* I don't know if the permissions were set by you or the original zip
files, but they're messed up in several place, at least with respect
to *nix.  Some are set to 555.  Not sure why execute bit is even set
anywhere at all.
* It's large (1.1GB decompressed).
* Lots of files/folders are not in 8.3 compliant or could have a
different file name depending on the DOS version used to view the CD
* Is it really necessary to have both the *x.zip (binaries) and 
*s.zip (source) extracted in this tree?
* I would argue just a list of the packages (in CSV format), and their
attributes (LSM attribute, plus other review criteria, has LICENSE,
has SOURCE, etc.) would have sufficed over producing a large zip file.

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 5:09 PM, Mercury Thirteen
mercury0x0...@gmail.com wrote:
 Everyone take a look at this ZIP and let me know your feedback. Anything
 which shouldn't be included? Anything which should but wasn't? There's a few
 non-open source programs I didn't catch for removal.

 Let me know your input.

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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Louis Santillan]

I'm not of this effort, but, Ralf, what are you using to scan for viruses?

On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 5:39 PM, Ralf Quint freedos...@gmail.com wrote:

  On 6/2/2015 5:09 PM, Mercury Thirteen wrote:

  Everyone take a look at this ZIP
 http://mercurycoding.com/FreeDOS/FreeDOS-1.2.zip and let me know your
 feedback. Anything which shouldn't be included? Anything which should but
 wasn't? There's a few non-open source programs I didn't catch for removal.

  Let me know your input.

  Input? Well, do you really think that people download  281MB ZIP file,
 one that also alerts most anti-virus software due to some of it's contents,
 without knowing what this is about?

 How's that for input?

 Ralf


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Re: [Freedos-devel] FreeDOS 1.2 package compilation

[Antony Gordon]

What I think would be useful would be an Xcode/Visual Studio type of 
environment that includes all of the recommended build tools setup with a batch 
file to set paths to have the tools work from any location on the hard drive.

This can be used to rebuild the OS or to develop new applications for the OS. 


 On Jun 3, 2015, at 12:42 AM, Antony Gordon cuzint...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 That was a HUGE zip file (once uncompressed).
 
 I’m just glad I use a sandbox for stuff like this, that zip file was like a 
 box of chocolates…
 
 That being said…that much stuff comes on the FreeDOS full CD image? It kind 
 of reminds me of the old Linux distributions that would ship a distribution 
 on one CD and then a separate CD that was a snapshot of the Linux parts of 
 various FTP sites.
 
 I guess when you have almost 700MB to fill, you gotta do something.
 
 
 
 
 On Jun 2, 2015, at 8:09 PM, Mercury Thirteen mercury0x0...@gmail.com 
 mailto:mercury0x0...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 Everyone take a look at this ZIP 
 http://mercurycoding.com/FreeDOS/FreeDOS-1.2.zip and let me know your 
 feedback. Anything which shouldn't be included? Anything which should but 
 wasn't? There's a few non-open source programs I didn't catch for removal.
 
 Let me know your input.
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