Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
> MBR and GPT are partitioning systems. MBR can be used on any disk up > to 2TB but not more. > > GPT can be used on any size of drive but must be used on drives bigger > than > 2TB. Close, but not quite accurate. MBR can be used on any disk which contains up to 2^32 (4G) *sectors*, not necessarily 2T *Bytes*. It is true that most disks use 512 Bytes/sector (which equates to 2 TB), but not all do. E.g., optical media (CD/DVD/BD) use 2k Bytes/sector), and large modern hard disks use 4k Bytes/sector. Oftentimes there is firmware in the 4k hard disks to virtualize/emulate 512 bytes (they usually call this 512e). We can have a much lengthier discussion about the practical implications of all this (and there are plenty of them), but the point is that 4G sectors does not *necessarily* equate to 2T Bytes. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
Hey richardkolacz101: I think that I understand the reason of the "inflated Windows Pro price from HP" (when comparing if you purchased Windows 10 from an independent vendor). I got my computers refurbished from a church charity. https://www.canberracitycare.org/tech-shed.html And I got discounted prices by saying that I wanted no software. As I would install Linux myself! -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 01:08, Michał Dec wrote: > dd is a great alternative since it's free. As in freedom. I accidentally hit "send" while switching tabs, and it was too late when I came back. `dd` is not a replacement for tools such as Acronis because: 1. It requires considerable Unix knowledge 2. It requires bootable Linux media, knowing how to make them, and how to use them. 3. It is extremely dangerous and a slight error in the command will overwrite the user's hard disk. There is no feedback or confirmation. 4. It will not resize filesystems, which is the *whole point of the exercise* So: no, not a good tool. I have been using Unix systems professionally since 1988. I would not use `dd` for this task myself. > > >GPT can be used on any size of drive but must be used on drives bigger than > >2TB. Please use plain text when replying to emails. Read this if you don't understand why: https://useplaintext.email/ Your reply appeared to be simply "no". Please identify any other partitioning scheme for generic x86 clone PC-compatible computers which can partition media of larger than 2 TB, or a documented supported workaround that allows MBR to be safely used for drives bigger than 2TB. It must work at least as well as GPT, meaning it is free, works on any OS, allows the OS to be booted from the drive, etc. I do not know of any such system but I am always happy to learn. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 01:08, Michał Dec wrote: > > dd is a great alternative since it's free. As in freedom. Yes and no. Mostly no. > >GPT can be used on any size of drive but must be used on drives bigger than > >2TB. [Annoying graphical attachment removed] This is a mailing list. Please use plain text. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 18:12, Travis Siegel wrote: Paragon software has a program that will allow you to clone a disk from a smaller to a larger disk with no problem, even the other way too, as long as the blank space on the disk allows the material to fit onto the disk itself. Yup. Heard of it. Never used it. Meant to be good, I think. dd is a great alternative since it's free. As in freedom. GPT can be used on any size of drive but *must* be used on drives bigger than 2TB. Pin by Vanessa Wyrzykowska on Rysować | Bugs bunny, Memes ...___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 18:12, Travis Siegel wrote: > > Paragon software has a program that will allow you to clone a disk from > a smaller to a larger disk with no problem, even the other way too, as > long as the blank space on the disk allows the material to fit onto the > disk itself. Yup. Heard of it. Never used it. Meant to be good, I think. > > Also, the difference between 2fTB drives Do you mean 2 TB? Not sure where the F came from. > and larger ones is (mostly) a > matter of gpart VS. MBR, That's GPT vs MBR. "Gpart" is a program. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gpart > and of course, the whole EUFI bios It's UEFI, not EUFI. Important to get it right when someone might be Googling it. Don't call it a "UEFI bios". A PC either has a BIOS or it has a UEFI. UEFI is not a type of BIOS; it's a replacement for a BIOS. It's like saying "a Harley Davidson is a motorcycle car". It's not; either it's a car, *or* it's a motorbike. It's not both. Some UEFI firmware can emulate a BIOS -- most, in fact. But not all. MBR and GPT are partitioning systems. MBR can be used on any disk up to 2TB but not more. GPT can be used on any size of drive but must be used on drives bigger than 2TB. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
Paragon software has a program that will allow you to clone a disk from a smaller to a larger disk with no problem, even the other way too, as long as the blank space on the disk allows the material to fit onto the disk itself. Also, the difference between 2fTB drives and larger ones is (mostly) a matter of gpart VS. MBR, and of course, the whole EUFI bios system on the various computer systems. I'm fairly certain there's nothing proprietary about it, though I suppose it's certainly possible that some manufacturers put their own code into the EUFI bios to make things behave differently, though why they'd do so is a mystery to me. Also, Microsoft sells windows for $100 for the base system, and $200 for the pro version, and that's stand-alone, so there's no reason why windows should cost $215 especially from an OEM, since they pay considerably less for a copy of windows than a retail customer does. It's all just a load of crap, which is why I build my own machines, and have since the early 90s. Admittedly, it's getting progressively harder to find the exact patrts one wants these days, especially when it comes to cases with a sufficient number of drive bays (everyone seems to think since everything is online, external drives are unnecessary), but with a bit of judicial searching, it's (usually) possible to locate a suitable case, though pricing is rarely in line with other parts. In any case, apparently, with the EUFI bios systems, it's not possible to run dos without some work, since the BIOS varies too much from standard machines of the past. It can still be done with emulators and the like, but generally, it is possible to flash a rom bios on a motherboard, if you dig hard enough, or locate a compatible motherboard, but again, that's becoming less and less common. Generally, if you search for industrial equipment/parts, you can generally find legacy bios support, and setup your machine with one of those motherboards. That seems to work, though I'm sure even that support will fall by the wayside eventually. Perhaps, SBC (Single Board Computers) may be the way to go for folks wanting a true dos experience, though I've yet to find one I'd consider suitable myself for a reasonable price. The pi would be great, but it's an arm processor, so can't do the dos thing without a whole lot of help, so perhaps if someone has some knowledge about an ISA type SBC, I'd sure like to hear about it. I'd love to get my hands on one for myself, it might be fun seeing just how much dos can be run on one of those. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
Just for clarity, I thought I'd try to highlight some of the errors and misconceptions in your lengthy email. On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 at 03:16, richardkolacz...@hotmail.com wrote: > the option of FreeDOS 3.0 is not always available There is no such thing as FreeDOS 3.0 and never has been. Maybe someone at HP made a mistake but it does not exist. > the G7 version always had FreeDOS 2.0 There is no such thing as FreeDOS 2.0 either. It does not exist. > it is not possible to reinstall Windows on a larger (or another for that > matter) PCIe M.2 SSD This is not true. You can reinstall it or you can copy it, whichever you prefer. It may be that your PC cannot take a larger disk but that is a different question. If you wish to *move* Windows to a bigger disk, you could do this: * get a cheap external drive such as a USB hard disk * boot from a Linux USB key * use GParted to copy your Windows install to the external disk * remove your small internal disk * fit a larger internal disk * boot from the Linux key again and copy your partitions back. Resize as needed. * boot from a Windows USB key and repair your boot record so it's bootable > Various manufacturers/vendors of PCIe SSD would not be willing to state they > would offer a refund for purchase of a new larger SSD M.2 if it turns out > that the operating system could not be migrated to the new SSD. No, they won't. If their kit is fine but you don't know how to do it, why should they give you your money back? > Similarly, the few software houses (with OS "clone" capabilities) completely > side-stepped the issue of refund if their software failed to "migrate" the OS > to a new larger PCIe SSD). They can't. They don't know that hardware incompatibilities or user error will stop it working, so it is not possible for them to 100% guarantee it will work. > It turns out, after reading about the thousandth google search result on the > matter, that the "formatting/installation process" to have an operating > system on a PCIe M.2 SSD is "proprietory/custom" for each computer > manufacturer Not true as far as I know. I've formatted several of them, some repeatedly, and never used a vendor tool. Sounds like someone somewhere is lying. > AND Windows will not support what is needed to allow cloning of the > operating system Not true. > (BECAUSE the format of a PCIe SSD is custom). Not true. > As a spare part I could not buy from HP a larger capacity PCIe SSD (with > windows) - in fact when was available, just to replace the existing 256 GByte > drive was about US$950 (more than what I actually paid for the laptop). It is generally a bad idea to buy spares from a system vendor this way because of the expense. > I gather that buying Windows already installing on a PCIe SSD A Windows install is tailored to that PC. They can't be sold pre-installed. > has to be much more expensive than the separate purchase of Windows and PCIe > SSD No; because it doesn't exist. But a manufacturer's spare is not the same thing. > because of the "complexity" involved of installing an OS onto a PCIe SSD > (whereas an OS on a SATA SSD is relatively easy). They are 100% as easy as each other; they are the same process. > After using the laptop with Windows booting from the PCIe SSD - running > Windows from a SATA SSD is so very slow (like about a minute compared to a > few seconds). Shouldn't be, no. The difference in my experience is tiny. > So I am "window shopping" for a "better laptop" than what I have at present > and from my experience it is better for me to have the factory preconfigure > "everything" rather than messing around with saving a few dollars and trying > to do things myself (eg install OS on PCIe SSD, RAM memory upgrade that is > truely compatible (speed, voltage) etc). In my extensive experience -- over a third of a century -- the reverse is true. It is far *far* better to learn to do this stuff yourself and as a result it will save you thousands and a lot of grief. > As a side note, apparently the main market for HP computers with FreeDOS > installed is CHINA. Large use of pirated OSes because it's not illegal there. Also, several domestic Linux distributions which are improving fast and leapfrogging Western ones: Deepin, Kylin, etc. > I hope to hear soon from Jim Hall regarding "what's up" with the HP FreeDOS > 3.0. You've been told already but you apparently refuse to accept it. It is a typo or something. This product is not real, does not exist, never had and probably never will. -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
Hi! Not sure whether I understand you correctly, but... Why are 256 GB SSD, 32 GB RAM and 3k display too little? Certainly not for DOS :-) And why would it not be possible to install Windows on a disk larger than 256 GB? That sounds more like some license issue (Windows may think you install it on a second computer, not migrate to a new disk) and not like a problem with some proprietary magic of the SSD. If your Windows takes minutes to boot from SATA SSD while taking seconds from PCIe or M.2 SSD, it would seem to me as if you have rather slow SATA, no AHCI, as well as maybe other problems reducing your boot speed? Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
For anyone curious, the following link is how to custom configure (at purchase time) the HP laptop https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/ConfigureView?urlLangId==10051=-1=10151=3074457345620032820=1 >From the options at start of page, using Ubuntu (which is free) as a guide - >one can determine the "cost" of Windows (Pro) to being about US$215. >Depending which (of many) links to configure HP zBook G8 you go to, the option >of FreeDOS 3.0 is not always available - however with the previous model >(about 1-2 years ago), the G7 version always had FreeDOS 2.0 or Ubuntu at no >charge (and roughly Windows Pro being at the same price). I think that I understand the reason of the "inflated Windows Pro price from HP" (when comparing if you purchased Windows 10 from an independent vendor). Note that my laptop (G2 manufactured about 8 years ago, and purchased second hand at a very nice price) - I have "outgrown" it (it only has 256G byte PCIe SSD, 3K display) and I have "maxed out" the RAM to 32 GByte. A very important wish was to increase the PCIe SSD and although easy to change (physically) the PCIe SSD to a much larger capacity (say buying from eBAY) - the problem of installing the Windows operating system on the larger PCIe SSD prevented this. To cut a long story short - when investigating how to install/migrate Windows to a larger PCIe SSD - after a few months of searching, reading maybe a thousand forum replies (it seems), trying my existing software (and free trials software),etc - on my G2 laptop (which only has ONE PCIe slot - where the C:\ drive is)) - it is not possible to reinstall Windows on a larger (or another for that matter) PCIe M.2 SSD. Various manufacturers/vendors of PCIe SSD would not be willing to state they would offer a refund for purchase of a new larger SSD M.2 if it turns out that the operating system could not be migrated to the new SSD. Similarly, the few software houses (with OS "clone" capabilities) completely side-stepped the issue of refund if their software failed to "migrate" the OS to a new larger PCIe SSD). The best I could do, was have a 99% clone success rate but the final 1% related to the actual Windows booting process, and so therefore useless for having a larger SSD. It turns out, after reading about the thousandth google search result on the matter, that the "formatting/installation process" to have an operating system on a PCIe M.2 SSD is "proprietory/custom" for each computer manufacturer (and possibly also model specific) - the computer manufacturers will not release details - AND Windows will not support what is needed to allow cloning of the operating system (BECAUSE the format of a PCIe SSD is custom). On the other hand, migration of OS to a SATA SSD is supported (SATA is not custom format dependent). As a spare part I could not buy from HP a larger capacity PCIe SSD (with windows) - in fact when was available, just to replace the existing 256 GByte drive was about US$950 (more than what I actually paid for the laptop). I gather that buying Windows already installing on a PCIe SSD has to be much more expensive than the separate purchase of Windows and PCIe SSD because of the "complexity" involved of installing an OS onto a PCIe SSD (whereas an OS on a SATA SSD is relatively easy). After using the laptop with Windows booting from the PCIe SSD - running Windows from a SATA SSD is so very slow (like about a minute compared to a few seconds). So I am "window shopping" for a "better laptop" than what I have at present and from my experience it is better for me to have the factory preconfigure "everything" rather than messing around with saving a few dollars and trying to do things myself (eg install OS on PCIe SSD, RAM memory upgrade that is truely compatible (speed, voltage) etc). As a side note, apparently the main market for HP computers with FreeDOS installed is CHINA. I hope to hear soon from Jim Hall regarding "what's up" with the HP FreeDOS 3.0. ________ From: dmccunney Sent: Friday, 3 December 2021 3:53 AM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0 On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ivan Ivanov wrote: > > Laptops with FreeDOS / Linux instead of Windows - are really valuable! To whom? Dell offered systems through Walmart a while back that did not have Windows per-installed. They dropped the offer. The systems without Windows did not *sell*. (If you are Dell, selling through Walmart, "sales" will be measured in tens of thousands of systems. If you aren't selling that sort of volume, you stop trying to do it that way.) The market for such a system is too small for a major computer manufacturer to bother with. > At least because the price of the
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 2:56 AM Ivan Ivanov wrote: > > Laptops with FreeDOS / Linux instead of Windows - are really valuable! To whom? Dell offered systems through Walmart a while back that did not have Windows per-installed. They dropped the offer. The systems without Windows did not *sell*. (If you are Dell, selling through Walmart, "sales" will be measured in tens of thousands of systems. If you aren't selling that sort of volume, you stop trying to do it that way.) The market for such a system is too small for a major computer manufacturer to bother with. > At least because the price of the Win license is included in the > laptop price, and nobody in their right mind wants to pay an extra $30 > for this glitchy "air". I'd spend these $30 on a RAM upgrade, or > donate these $30 to some open source software - to make this world a > better place, instead of filling the greedy M$ pockets. The savings is not significant in terms of the total cost of the machine. I don't know offhand what MS charges PC makers for bundling Windows on new PCs. But let's go with $30. If you are looking at laptops, it's easy to spend $3K on a machine without pushing hard. That Windows license is *1%* of the cost of the machine Note that Windows in no longer a major component of MS's revenues. Yes, Windows and Office are still decent slices of their business, but the real money these days is in gaming and cloud services. Azure is *huge* for Microsoft. They are competing in that space against Amazon AWS services, Oracle, and Google. (And Office is shifting to the cloud. MS is pusing Office 365 hard, as subscription based cloud service Depending on who you are and what you do, you may not *need* a local installation of Office on your PC.0 And no, MS is not being "greedy". I'll spare everyone a lecture on the financial markets and why things work the way they do. I'll simply state that MS has reasons for its behavior that are driven *by* the financial markets.. __ Dennis ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
Laptops with FreeDOS / Linux instead of Windows - are really valuable! At least because the price of the Win license is included in the laptop price, and nobody in their right mind wants to pay an extra $30 for this glitchy "air". I'd spend these $30 on a RAM upgrade, or donate these $30 to some open source software - to make this world a better place, instead of filling the greedy M$ pockets. ср, 1 дек. 2021 г. в 20:10, Michał Dec : > > When a laptop manufacturer says the computer supports FreeDOS, it's their way > of stating 2 facts: > > 1. Their UEFI has CSM support. > > 2. They offer selling this laptop without a Windows license. > > W dniu 01.12.2021 o 16:31, Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user pisze: > > > On Tuesday, November 30th, 2021 at 11:34 PM, dmccunney > dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: > > ... > > And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run from the > bare metal on. Too much of the hardware is simply not supported by any form > of DOS. DOS stopped being sold and supported long before some of it existed, > and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so getting DOS to boot on it will be a real > challenge. > > ... > > > It would be interesting to find someone who purchased it and see exactly what > software HP bundles with it. > > [sarc] > I mean, come on, HP. You love to bundle software with everything! We can't > even buy a printer from you without getting 1.7 GiB of extra crap on a disc. > So what about FreeDOS? Hmm? > [/sarc] > > But seriously, though, I wonder if the hardware in this specific laptop is > actually supported under DOS, and perhaps HP supplies drivers for it just > like they would supply drivers for Windows or whatever other OS they would > sell alongside their hardware. Yeah, I know that's probably not the case. But > that would be nice. That would be nice. :) > > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user > > ___ > Freedos-user mailing list > Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
When a laptop manufacturer says the computer supports FreeDOS, it's their way of stating 2 facts: 1. Their UEFI has CSM support. 2. They offer selling this laptop without a Windows license. W dniu 01.12.2021 o 16:31, Mercury Thirteen via Freedos-user pisze: On Tuesday, November 30th, 2021 at 11:34 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: ... And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run from the bare metal on. Too much of the hardware is simply not supported by any form of DOS. DOS stopped being sold and supported long before some of it existed, and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so getting DOS to boot on it will be a real challenge. ... It would be interesting to find someone who purchased it and see exactly what software HP bundles with it. [sarc] I mean, come /on/, HP. You love to bundle software with /everything/! We can't even buy a printer from you without getting 1.7 GiB of extra crap on a disc. So what about FreeDOS? Hmm? [/sarc] But seriously, though, I wonder if the hardware in this specific laptop /is/ actually supported under DOS, and perhaps HP supplies drivers for it just like they would supply drivers for Windows or whatever other OS they would sell alongside their hardware. Yeah, I know that's probably not the case. But that would be nice. That would be nice. :) ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
Hmmm, I should get one. It would save me a lot of work. ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
On Tuesday, November 30th, 2021 at 11:34 PM, dmccunney dennis.mccun...@gmail.com wrote: > ... > > And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run from the > bare metal on. Too much of the hardware is simply not supported by any form > of DOS. DOS stopped being sold and supported long before some of it existed, > and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so getting DOS to boot on it will be a real > challenge. > > ... It would be interesting to find someone who purchased it and see exactly what software HP bundles with it. [sarc] I mean, come on, HP. You love to bundle software with everything! We can't even buy a printer from you without getting 1.7 GiB of extra crap on a disc. So what about FreeDOS? Hmm? [/sarc] But seriously, though, I wonder if the hardware in this specific laptop is actually supported under DOS, and perhaps HP supplies drivers for it just like they would supply drivers for Windows or whatever other OS they would sell alongside their hardware. Yeah, I know that's probably not the case. But that would be nice. That would be nice. :)___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
Yeah. If you absolutely want to develop software for bare-metal FreeDOS, you probably want to do it on compatible hardware. That concerns network cards, VESA and ISA sound cards mostly. As soon as you set foot on a PCI sound card or newer, you're in Windows land. Going back to DOS from this point is not impossible, but it is painful. >$2700 price tag I'm sorry, I think HP is under a cyber attack. Clearly someone is using XSS on their website to get prices of real estate, cryptocurrency or Apple products. Best regards, Michał W dniu 01.12.2021 o 05:34, dmccunney pisze: On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 8:01 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com wrote: I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing. Why on Earth do you want to do *that*? I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc. HP's spec sheet is *wrong.* There *is* no FreeDOS 3.0. FreeDOS current release is 1.3. If you go the HP_'s top level site and search for FreeDOS 3.0, it will find nothing. And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run from the bare metal on. Too much of the hardware is simply not supported by any form of DOS. DOS stopped being sold and supported long before some of it existed, and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so getting DOS to boot on it will be a real challenge. You haven't specified what sort of software you want to develop, but unless you are dedicated Old Skool, who wants to develop on a pure DOS PC using only development tools available when DOS was current, you are better served to get a decent Win10 Pro machine with current development toolchains, and compile to 808X.binaries than can run under DOS and run DOS in emulation. If I wanted to do this sort of thing, I'd start with a Win10 desktop, not a laptop. The one I'm using at the moment is a refurb ex-corporate workstation that came with a quad cone Intel i5 cpu 2 356ghx, with a built in turbo mode up to 3.9 ghz, 16GB of RAM, Intel HD 4600 graphics, and Win10 Pro on a 256GB SSD, It cont *one tenth* of the price for the laptop in the specs. If you absolutely must run DOS on the bare metal, look at the links for new gear posted earlier, or look around on someplace like eBay for old PCVs that were designed to run DOS. Buy the HP laptop advertised, and you will spend a lot of money on a machine that cannot be used for what you want to do. __ Dennis ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 8:01 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com wrote: > > I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use > instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing. Why on Earth do you want to do *that*? > I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available > Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for > me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc. HP's spec sheet is *wrong.* There *is* no FreeDOS 3.0. FreeDOS current release is 1.3. If you go the HP_'s top level site and search for FreeDOS 3.0, it will find nothing. And this is not a machine you want to try to set up FreeDOS to run from the bare metal on. Too much of the hardware is simply not supported by any form of DOS. DOS stopped being sold and supported long before some of it existed, and it uses UEFI, not a BIOS, so getting DOS to boot on it will be a real challenge. You haven't specified what sort of software you want to develop, but unless you are dedicated Old Skool, who wants to develop on a pure DOS PC using only development tools available when DOS was current, you are better served to get a decent Win10 Pro machine with current development toolchains, and compile to 808X.binaries than can run under DOS and run DOS in emulation. If I wanted to do this sort of thing, I'd start with a Win10 desktop, not a laptop. The one I'm using at the moment is a refurb ex-corporate workstation that came with a quad cone Intel i5 cpu 2 356ghx, with a built in turbo mode up to 3.9 ghz, 16GB of RAM, Intel HD 4600 graphics, and Win10 Pro on a 256GB SSD, It cont *one tenth* of the price for the laptop in the specs. If you absolutely must run DOS on the bare metal, look at the links for new gear posted earlier, or look around on someplace like eBay for old PCVs that were designed to run DOS. Buy the HP laptop advertised, and you will spend a lot of money on a machine that cannot be used for what you want to do. __ Dennis ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
Try the very LAST LINK below first to obtain the relevant brochure. Email from HP.com "You're missing out on Cyber Monday deals, Richard" -Shop HP's Holiday Gift Guide > CYBER MONDAY > Workstation power (HP Book Studio G8 Mobile S40X7UA#ABA) https://outlook.live.com/mail/inbox/id/AQMkADAwATY3ZmYAZS1kZAE0LWZjZDAtMDACLTAwCgBGAAADbLMdRCVfk0Cwly48TGfj3gcA9WyUTNi%2BLkGN5%2BY54JWLagEM9WyUTNi%2BLkGN5%2BY54JWLaAAFo5J8Dw%3D%3D When going to the above laptop model from the email the link for "CYBER WEEK" page is https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/slp/cyber-sale/business-pcs?mi_u=37e18e4d4e54f43b7dd1f0c2d2ad7d26_Flag=True_tier=GS_ign=142374_content=S2R6C1%20Product%204=em_con_nc_ns=280920643_medium=em_source=sf=37e18e4d4e54f43b7dd1f0c2d2ad7d26==2809206=1 Clicking on the image (of laptop) - link is https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-zbook-studio-156-inch-g8-mobile-workstation-p-540x7ua-aba-1?jumpid=ma_cyber-sale_product-tile_business-pcs_2_540x7ua_hp-zbook-studio-15.642374 Going to the Specs of same https://www.hp.com/us-en/shop/pdp/hp-zbook-studio-156-inch-g8-mobile-workstation-p-540x7ua-aba-1?jumpid=ma_cyber-sale_product-tile_business-pcs_2_540x7ua_hp-zbook-studio-15.6 NOW (in the Product Specifications of the above link) CLICK ON THE HP Data Sheet line (printed in blue) AMS WS - HP ZBook Studio 15.6 inch G8 Mobile WorkStation PC DataSheet and the link (for the brochure) is https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=4aa7-9961enuc I refer you to the "Available Operating Systems" near the top of page 2 Note that the previous models similarly had FreeDOS 2.0 as an available operating system (for a number of years). From: Jim Hall Sent: Wednesday, 1 December 2021 12:38 PM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0 On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 7:00 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com<mailto:richardkolacz...@hotmail.com> mailto:richardkolacz...@hotmail.com>> wrote: I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing. I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc. I have attached a screenshot from the HP specifications page for you to study - I hope this attachment does not go against any forum rules. Thanks for sharing this. The attachment wasn't too big so the email list accepted it. Otherwise, a copy/paste of hte text would be preferable. Can you share a link to HP's site where you found this? There is no "FreeDOS 3.0" - as Michal commented, we haven't released the final release of FreeDOS 1.3 yet, so FreeDOS "3.0" is impossible. So clearly HP is advertising this incorrectly. I can follow up with HP if you can share the link where you found this. Jim ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
On Tue, Nov 30, 2021 at 7:00 PM richardkolacz...@hotmail.com < richardkolacz...@hotmail.com> wrote: > I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use > instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing. > > I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for > Available Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any > advantages for me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc. > > I have attached a screenshot from the HP specifications page for you to > study - I hope this attachment does not go against any forum rules. > > Thanks for sharing this. The attachment wasn't too big so the email list accepted it. Otherwise, a copy/paste of hte text would be preferable. Can you share a link to HP's site where you found this? There is no "FreeDOS 3.0" - as Michal commented, we haven't released the final release of FreeDOS 1.3 yet, so FreeDOS "3.0" is impossible. So clearly HP is advertising this incorrectly. I can follow up with HP if you can share the link where you found this. Jim ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
What. FreeDOS ain't even got 1.3 past release candidate numbers. Regards, Michał W dniu 01.12.2021 o 01:59, richardkolacz...@hotmail.com pisze: I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing. I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc. I have attached a screenshot from the HP specifications page for you to study - I hope this attachment does not go against any forum rules. Thanks Richard *From:* Rugxulo *Sent:* Tuesday, 30 November 2021 11:52 AM *To:* Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. *Subject:* Re: [Freedos-user] How to redirect STDOUT and STDERR to file Hi, On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 6:53 AM saito yutaka wrote: > > How to redirect STDOUT and STDERR to file. > I want to redirect to file as follow. > > --- > c:\>dir aaa > out.txt > c:\> type out.txt > Volume in drive C is FREEDOS2021 > Volume Serial Number is 3668-1A1E > File not found. > --- > > But it works as follow. > It couldn't redirect "File not found" string. > > --- > c:\>dir aaa > out.txt > File not found. > c:\> type out.txt > Volume in drive C is FREEDOS2021 > Volume Serial Number is 3668-1A1E > --- As mentioned, some things won't work by default. For most things, if you just want to silence output (usually in a .BAT file), try this: REM ... shut up almost all output ... ctty nul echo (do whatever) ctty con REM ... make sure to re-enable "ctty con" at the end!! ... To redirect STDERR to file, you need a third-party util (or a better shell like 4DOS, as already mentioned): * http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel0101/simtel/asmutl/stderrf1.zip There's also DJGPP's REDIR.EXE (386 DPMI) from DJDEV205.ZIP : * http://www.delorie.com/pub/djgpp/current/v2/djdev205.zip ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Question about FreeDOS 3.0
I am new to trying to setup FreeDOS as bare-metal configuration to use instead of Windows 10 for programs I am writing. I notice that HP computer company has FreeDOS 3.0 as an option for Available Operating Systems. Is this anything to do with this forum? Any advantages for me to use this instead of RC1.5 version etc. I have attached a screenshot from the HP specifications page for you to study - I hope this attachment does not go against any forum rules. Thanks Richard From: Rugxulo Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2021 11:52 AM To: Discussion and general questions about FreeDOS. Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] How to redirect STDOUT and STDERR to file Hi, On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 6:53 AM saito yutaka wrote: > > How to redirect STDOUT and STDERR to file. > I want to redirect to file as follow. > > --- > c:\>dir aaa > out.txt > c:\> type out.txt > Volume in drive C is FREEDOS2021 > Volume Serial Number is 3668-1A1E > File not found. > --- > > But it works as follow. > It couldn't redirect "File not found" string. > > --- > c:\>dir aaa > out.txt > File not found. > c:\> type out.txt > Volume in drive C is FREEDOS2021 > Volume Serial Number is 3668-1A1E > --- As mentioned, some things won't work by default. For most things, if you just want to silence output (usually in a .BAT file), try this: REM ... shut up almost all output ... ctty nul echo (do whatever) ctty con REM ... make sure to re-enable "ctty con" at the end!! ... To redirect STDERR to file, you need a third-party util (or a better shell like 4DOS, as already mentioned): * http://cd.textfiles.com/simtel/simtel0101/simtel/asmutl/stderrf1.zip There's also DJGPP's REDIR.EXE (386 DPMI) from DJDEV205.ZIP : * http://www.delorie.com/pub/djgpp/current/v2/djdev205.zip ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
