Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Michael W Thelen writes: Smylers wrote: I hadn't heard of [babycart] before this thread, and I'm a native English speaker. I haven't heard baby cart much either... I would probably say baby carriage (I'm from the USA). 4 syllables. With half the number of syllabes, babycart is much faster to say babycart is 3 syllables; shopping trolley is only 4 In the USA (at least where I'm from), it's called a shopping cart, which is also 3 syllables, So by replacing babycart and supermarket trolley with their respective more-commonly-used synonyms, we've flipped which one has the fewer syllables. and gets 766_000_000 results. Maybe that's our winner? Then again, I don't know if shopping cart sounds strange to non-American speakers. I don't think a physical shop in England would use the term, but there are so many websites that do that the term is familiar and understood over here. shopping cart operator certainly gets my vote. Smylers
RE: Naming the @{[]} operator
Better example:
bash-2.05$ perl -le 'print localtime'; perl -le 'print @{[localtime]}'
9151013610641931
9 15 10 13 6 106 4 193 1
Greg
-Original Message-
From: Chasecreek Systemhouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 9:30 AM
To: fwp@perl.org
Subject: Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
On 7/7/06, Jerrad Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
perl -le 'print @{[time]}'
What the advantage the above over this:
perl -le 'print time'
Could I please get some more examples?
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Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:29:38 -0400, Chasecreek Systemhouse wrote:
On 7/7/06, Jerrad Pierce [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
perl -le 'print @{[time]}'
What the advantage the above over this:
perl -le 'print time'
Oh come on, you asked how to use @{[]}. Well, its main purpose is a way
to embed (interpolate) a function call into a string. Like, uh,
perl -le 'print @{[time]}'
If I need to do this often in one script, I prefer to load the module
Interpolate.
--
Bart.
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
* Bart Lateur [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-07-13 11:30]:
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 04:29:38 -0400, Chasecreek Systemhouse wrote:
What the advantage the above over this:
perl -le 'print time'
Oh come on, you asked how to use @{[]}.
It’s a legitimate question.
Another use case:
for( qw( 1 2 3 ) ) {
$_ = $_ * $_; # contrived
print square: $_\n;
}
__END__
Modification of a read-only value attempted at foo line 2.
as opposed to
for( @{[ qw( 1 2 3 ) ]} ) {
$_ = $_ * $_; # contrived
print square: $_\n;
}
__END__
square: 1
square: 4
square: 9
In other words it’s also useful when you need to break aliasing
to make sure you’re operating on a modifiable copied scalar.
Regards,
--
Aristotle Pagaltzis // http://plasmasturm.org/
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
On 7/13/06, A. Pagaltzis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Modification of a read-only value attempted at foo line 2.
Yeah, I get that a lot and I have to burn another variable to get around it;
for( @{[ qw( 1 2 3 ) ]} ) {
$_ = $_ * $_; # contrived
Now this is good, less vars and IMHO better readable* code.
Thx =)
--
WC (Bill) Jones -- http://youve-reached-the.endoftheinternet.org/
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
On Jul 12, 2006, at 2:28 AM, Yanick Champoux wrote:
On Tuesday 11 July 2006 19:22, Philippe BooK Bruhat wrote:
Le mardi 11 juillet 2006 à 21:59, Smylers écrivait:
but babycart transmits the idea that what you put inside is
fragile and simple...
It's also a series of japanese saber films (and that's where I picked
the name from):
And the movies themselves are an adaptation of the manga series
(called Lone
Wolf and Cub in English):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_Wolf_and_Cub.
When using @{[]} wouldn't you prefer to feel like a samurai in battle
rather than like a consumer in a supermarket? Mmm?
Samurai, hmm? That gives a whole new meaning to the term Perl hacker.
Hum... Perl ninjas? O:-)
Joy,
`/anick
Shishõgan! Eyes that only a Perl hacker who has gone through Golf
tournaments, who has walked through the splattering madness of
countless
oneliners, can posses!
- Iki Jizomon, samurai from the Tamiya Ichiden-Ryu, refering to Cub
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Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Philippe BooK Bruhat writes: Le lundi 10 juillet 2006 à 12:09, Jose Castro écrivait: Indeed... it *is* a container! You put things inside it! I still prefer Supermarket Trolley, Ditto. There's more variety as to what you might put inside it. but babycart transmits the idea that what you put inside is fragile and simple... It only does that if you've heard the term before. I hadn't heard of it before this thread, and I'm a native English speaker. My initial guess was that it's some kind of small cart, but I now gather it's an alternative term for a pushchair, or perhaps for a pram. Either way Google suggests babycart isn't that commonly used -- number of hits listed for each of these phrases: babycart18_100 baby cart 75_500 pushchair 739_000 pram 4_440_000 And picking a less-commonly used term doesn't seem a great idea. With half the number of syllabes, babycart is much faster to say babycart is 3 syllables; shopping trolley is only 4 -- and again Google agress with me that in English shopping trolley is a more usual phrase than supermarket trolley: supermarket trolley 72_800 shopping trolley 1_330_000 Smylers
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Smylers wrote: It only does that if you've heard the term before. I hadn't heard of it before this thread, and I'm a native English speaker. My initial guess was that it's some kind of small cart, but I now gather it's an alternative term for a pushchair, or perhaps for a pram. Either way Google suggests babycart isn't that commonly used -- number of hits listed for each of these phrases: babycart18_100 baby cart 75_500 pushchair 739_000 pram 4_440_000 And picking a less-commonly used term doesn't seem a great idea. I haven't heard baby cart much either... I would probably say baby carriage (I'm from the USA). A Google search for baby carriage (in quotes) gets 918_000 results. There's a popular children's rhyme that kids used to tease each other when I was young: John and Susie sitting in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G. First comes love, then comes marriage, Then comes a baby in a baby carriage! Replace John and Susie with the names of the people you're teasing, of course. :-) I don't know if there's a British equivalent of the rhyme. Anyway, Wikipedia claims that a baby carriage and a pram are equivalent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_carriage With half the number of syllabes, babycart is much faster to say babycart is 3 syllables; shopping trolley is only 4 -- and again Google agress with me that in English shopping trolley is a more usual phrase than supermarket trolley: supermarket trolley 72_800 shopping trolley 1_330_000 In the USA (at least where I'm from), it's called a shopping cart, which is also 3 syllables, and gets 766_000_000 results. Maybe that's our winner? Then again, I don't know if shopping cart sounds strange to non-American speakers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopping_cart -- Michael W Thelen It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. -- Douglas Adams
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
* Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006-07-11 23:05]:
babycart is 3 syllables; shopping trolley
Plus I could see myself adopting the latter (reluctantly) if it
became part of the vernacular, but I’d feel too silly using the
former to pick it up.
I still like “fat brackets” better though, in vague analogy to
the “fat comma.”
Regards,
--
#Aristotle
*AUTOLOAD=*_;sub _{s/(.*)::(.*)/print$2,(,$\/, )[defined wantarray]/e;$1};
Just-another-Perl-hacker;
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Let's just call it a rubber baby buggy bumper, then at least noone can say it three times fast regardless of what goes inside. It could be abbreviated to R3B, as in The best way to deref that structure is to use an arr three bee. Taking that another step, it could be an R2D2 as well. At least R2D2 saves spaceships instead of just carrying produce and canned goods to the checkout line, or hauling around a crying baby when you'd rather be at a pub. What did become of that robot once the rebellion was over? Maybe R2D2 is a shopping trolley now anyway. He does have food service experience. On 7/11/06, Smylers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: babycart is 3 syllables; shopping trolley is only 4 -- and again
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Le mardi 11 juillet 2006 à 21:59, Smylers écrivait:
but babycart transmits the idea that what you put inside is
fragile and simple...
It only does that if you've heard the term before. I hadn't heard of it
before this thread, and I'm a native English speaker. My initial guess
was that it's some kind of small cart, but I now gather it's an
alternative term for a pushchair, or perhaps for a pram.
It's also a series of japanese saber films (and that's where I picked
the name from):
* Kozure Ôkami: Sanzu no kawa no ubaguruma (1972)
Lone Wolf and Cub: Baby Cart at the River Styx
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068816/
* Kozure Ôkami: Shinikazeni mukau ubaguruma (1972)
Lone Wolf and Cub: Baby Cart to Hades
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068817/
* Kozure Ôkami: Meifumando (1973)
Lone Wolf and Cub: Baby Cart in Land of Demons
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0143428/
When using @{[]} wouldn't you prefer to feel like a samurai in battle
rather than like a consumer in a supermarket? Mmm?
Also, as you can see in the movie stills, the ronin keeps the baby cart
close to him as he's about to jump into battle:
http://www.sokkmagazin.hu/cikkek/kozure_okami/1.gif
And the baby cart is full of surprises:
http://www.sokkmagazin.hu/cikkek/kozure_okami/4.gif
--
Philippe BooK Bruhat
The surest path to chaos is too much organization.
(Moral from Groo #4 (Image))
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Why Perl5's dereferencing is better than Perl6's:
#34370 +(6)- [X]
tye and deref'ing is easy to remember because robots, -[ , use simple
integer indices while samuri, -{ , have names for everything, and aliens,
-( , use functional programming
--http://perlmonks.org/?node=tye
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Five to one against and falling ... four to one against and falling ... three
to one ... two ... one ... probability factor one to one ... we have normality,
I repeat we have normality. Anything you still can't cope with is therefore
your own problem. --DNA
RE: Naming the @{[]} operator
I recently thought about the @{[]} operator again (one of the
semi-famous Perl secret operators), and called it
the babycart operator.
I think I got the name from the series of films Baby Cart
(after the japanese manga Lone Wolf and Cub).
Opinions?
Well, you once introduced it as being the Supermarket Trolley, and
I've been using that name ever since, in my talks.
In my brain it's always been Geiger's Alien with the double jaws, but I
can see the babycart with each use containing a different hack/baby.
Cheers
Alistair
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Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
On Jul 10, 2006, at 11:59 AM, McGlinchy, Alistair wrote:
I recently thought about the @{[]} operator again (one of the
semi-famous Perl secret operators), and called it
the babycart operator.
I think I got the name from the series of films Baby Cart
(after the japanese manga Lone Wolf and Cub).
Opinions?
Well, you once introduced it as being the Supermarket Trolley, and
I've been using that name ever since, in my talks.
In my brain it's always been Geiger's Alien with the double jaws, but I
can see the babycart with each use containing a different hack/baby.
Indeed... it *is* a container! You put things inside it!
I still prefer Supermarket Trolley, but babycart transmits the idea
that what you put inside is fragile and simple... or should I have
slept more?
Basically, you put ordinary things inside it.
Cheers
Alistair
**
Registered Office:
Marks and Spencer plc
Waterside House
35 North Wharf Road
London
W2 1NW
Registered No. 214436 in England and Wales.
Telephone (020) 7935 4422
Facsimile (020) 7487 2670
www.marksandspencer.com
Please note that electronic mail may be monitored.
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log www.log.pt
Tel: +351 21 330 42 20
Fax: +351 21 330 42 19
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Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Le lundi 10 juillet 2006 à 12:09, Jose Castro écrivait: In my brain it's always been Geiger's Alien with the double jaws, but I can see the babycart with each use containing a different hack/baby. Indeed... it *is* a container! You put things inside it! I still prefer Supermarket Trolley, but babycart transmits the idea that what you put inside is fragile and simple... or should I have slept more? With half the number of syllabes, babycart is much faster to say (in case you need to dictate a program over the phone). -- Philippe BooK Bruhat The greatest monster of them all is ignorance. (Moral to Pal'n Drumm Story in Groo #89 (Epic))
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
On Jul 7, 2006, at 11:02 PM, Andrew Savige wrote: --- Alan Young wrote: I missed any discussion on this, and searching for this series of characters is fruitless. Here's an attempt at a definitive reference list for Perl's secret operators. I blame cog and BooK. Original fwp thread on secret operators: http://www.mail-archive.com/fwp@perl.org/msg03431.html Perl monk node on secret operators: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=426037 YAPC::EU 2005 talk: Obfuscation, Golfing and Secret Operators: http://conferences.yapceurope.org/2005/talk/194 BTW, are the slides available for this talk? Probably. Until I find them, here are the ones for YAPC::NA::2005: http://hew.ca/yapc/black_magic/ London Perl Workshop Perl Black Magic talk: http://www.london.pm.org/lpw-2004/talks/jose_alves_de_castro- perl_black_magic_enhanced.pdf OGSOP book announced: Obfuscation, Golfing and Secret Operators in Perl http://use.perl.org/~cog/journal/30129 /-\ Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- José Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED] log www.log.pt Tel: +351 21 330 42 20 Fax: +351 21 330 42 19 Av. Duque de Ávila nº23, 1000-138 Lisboa --
RE: Naming the @{[]} operator
Heck, it could be the luge operator.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.viewcalgary.com/peter/luge
/images/DSC_3781.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.viewcalgary.com/peter/luge/NoFrame
s.htmlh=581w=800sz=130hl=enstart=2tbnid=nE_nCIXdk_puYM:tbnh=103tbnw=
142prev=/images%3Fq%3Dluge%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.viewcalgary.com/peter/luge
/images/DSC_3781.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.viewcalgary.com/peter/luge/NoFrame
s.htmlh=581w=800sz=130hl=enstart=2tbnid=nE_nCIXdk_puYM:tbnh=103tbnw=
142prev=/images%3Fq%3Dluge%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG
Or the sled operator.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.orionrising.org/orion/arch
ives/sled2-thumb.jpgimgrefurl=http://www.orionrising.org/orion/archives/200
5/11/h=305w=450sz=14hl=enstart=177tbnid=MKLWpJ52_QqGeM:tbnh=84tbnw=1
24prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsled%2Bsnow%26start%3D160%26ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26h
l%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
Or the at-square-paren-paren-square operator! :-) Na!
--
Michael R. Wolf
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**NOTE** new, shorter spelling of obsolescent MichaelRunningWolf-at-att.net
-Original Message-
From: Jerrad Pierce [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 11:54 AM
To: Philippe BooK Bruhat
Cc: Jose Castro; fwp@perl.org
Subject: Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Babe cart? Supermarket trolley? Bah! Speak *English* :-P
I still like Intervalpation, but I guess you want something
along the lines of spaceship operator. If that's the case call it a pram.
--
Free map of local environmental resources: http://CambridgeMA.GreenMap.org
--
MOTD on Pungenday, the 42nd of Confusion, in the YOLD 3172:
Everybody repeat after me.We are all individuals.
RE: Naming the @{[]} operator
What's the difference between @{[]} and () ? Other than obfuscatory
purposes?
The former interpolates the list into qq{} (i.e. double quotes), the later
doesn't.
--
Michael R. Wolf
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
**NOTE** new, shorter spelling of obsolescent MichaelRunningWolf-at-att.net
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
From the keyboard of Stefan `Sec` Zehl [08.07.06,12:29]:
On Sat, Jul 08, 2006 at 08:02 +1000, Andrew Savige wrote:
Here's an attempt at a definitive reference list for Perl's
secret operators. I blame cog and BooK.
[...]
Wow, thanks for that list. -- On a related note: I distinctly remember
someone on this list compiling the perlgolf book which was a big pdf
containing all the perlgolfs and solutions and discussions about these.
But my google-fu seems waek, or somehow this book vanished from the net.
Does anyone here still have a copy?
it's here:
http://terje2.frox25.no-ip.org/~golf-info/Book.html
cheers,
-gg-
--
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RE: Naming the @{[]} operator
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is really a form of parenthesis.
So call it the fat brackets.
Or, to add a bit of consonance:
at-fat-brack
or, even
[EMAIL PROTECTED]@ckets
or, shortened to
@-brackets
But that could get confused with the more common (and more useful)
@{...}
--
Michael R. Wolf
All mammals learn by playing!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
I don't really think of it as *an* operator. It's a chain, or collection, of reference/dereferencing to nastiness (doesn't mean I don't use it). Intervalpation? -- Free map of local environmental resources: http://CambridgeMA.GreenMap.org -- MOTD on Pungenday, the 42nd of Confusion, in the YOLD 3172: Everybody repeat after me.We are all individuals.
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Think of it as a bird's eye view
Paren's head- @{[]} - Rubber baby buggy bumper
^- Baby
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--
MOTD on Pungenday, the 42nd of Confusion, in the YOLD 3172:
Everybody repeat after me.We are all individuals.
RE: Naming the @{[]} operator
It also cradles something ugly/cute (err, I mean fragile).
Think of it as a bird's eye view
Paren's head- @{[]} - Rubber baby buggy bumper
^- Baby
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Philippe BooK Bruhat wrote:
I recently thought about the @{[]} operator again (one of the
semi-famous
Perl secret operators), and called it the babycart operator.
I can see where you got that ... kinda fits.
I missed any discussion on this, and searching for this series of
characters is fruitless.
What's the difference between @{[]} and () ? Other than obfuscatory
purposes?
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
What's the difference between @{[]} and () ? Other than obfuscatory purposes?
perl -le 'print @{[time]}'
--
Free map of local environmental resources: http://CambridgeMA.GreenMap.org
--
MOTD on Pungenday, the 42nd of Confusion, in the YOLD 3172:
Everybody repeat after me.We are all individuals.
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
On Jul 7, 2006, at 4:36 PM, Philippe BooK Bruhat wrote:
Hi,
I recently thought about the @{[]} operator again (one of the
semi-famous
Perl secret operators), and called it the babycart operator.
I think I got the name from the series of films Baby Cart (after the
japanese manga Lone Wolf and Cub).
Opinions?
Well, you once introduced it as being the Supermarket Trolley, and
I've been using that name ever since, in my talks.
--
Philippe BooK Bruhat
To flaunt your strength is to make it your weakness.
(Moral from Groo The Wanderer #25
(Epic))
--
José Castro [EMAIL PROTECTED]
log www.log.pt
Tel: +351 21 330 42 20
Fax: +351 21 330 42 19
Av. Duque de Ávila nº23, 1000-138 Lisboa
--
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Le vendredi 07 juillet 2006 à 18:54, Jose Castro écrivait:
On Jul 7, 2006, at 4:36 PM, Philippe BooK Bruhat wrote:
Hi,
I recently thought about the @{[]} operator again (one of the
semi-famous
Perl secret operators), and called it the babycart operator.
I think I got the name from the series of films Baby Cart (after the
japanese manga Lone Wolf and Cub).
Opinions?
Well, you once introduced it as being the Supermarket Trolley, and
I've been using that name ever since, in my talks.
babycart is shorter, and sounds better in my (new) opinion.
What matters is how you'll call it in your book. :-)
--
Philippe BooK Bruhat
Be careful when you take one side or the other. You could wind up in the
middle.(Moral from Groo The Wanderer #33 (Epic))
Re: Naming the @{[]} operator
Babe cart? Supermarket trolley? Bah! Speak *English* :-P I still like Intervalpation, but I guess you want something along the lines of spaceship operator. If that's the case call it a pram. -- Free map of local environmental resources: http://CambridgeMA.GreenMap.org -- MOTD on Pungenday, the 42nd of Confusion, in the YOLD 3172: Everybody repeat after me.We are all individuals.
