Re: Erase a drive to sell
Kris Tilford wrote: On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: The one time Hollyweird got it right was in the Mel Gibson movie where he had thermite charges wired to the top of his drives. NASA was able to salvage and recover the data off the HDs that burned up in the Columbia shuttle accident. The problem with HD data recovery isn't that the data isn't there, it's the resources needed to recover it. Yeah, those data recovery services all sound great until you find out how much it could cost. You start realizing your data isn't worth THAT much. -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu mailto:john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu wrote: On Apr 6, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: The one time Hollyweird got it right was in the Mel Gibson movie where he had thermite charges wired to the top of his drives. NASA was able to salvage and recover the data off the HDs that burned up in the Columbia shuttle accident. The OUTSIDE of those drives was burned. The interior did have recoverable information. This is what thermite does: http://tinyurl.com/5dqxx5 When you've poured molten iron (melting point 1535 C) all over your aluminum (MP 660 C) hard drive, you ain't recovering jack, especially if you do it right and contain the reaction until it melts through the platters. __ Thermite; when you care enough to melt the very best. Personally I'd prefer a sabot round (APFSDS) -- Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
Hi everyone! Wow, I never expected to spark such an interesting discussion. Yes, some of you were right in that I don't believe I have a machine I can erase them in. Unless I have a card my old Yikes! will let me use. These came out of old servers and frankly I think some of them came from a local aerospace mfg, so they would have been wiped already. In the other cases, I am not sure I care, and if they were netware servers, how many people will have a netware server to pop them in to. I don't think I ever got them in a server the way I wanted. I just figured if there was a nice easy way to swipe them, I'd do it to be on the safe side. Interesting to know there is no nice easy way! Thanks for all the help :) Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
you'd be surprised what gets left on drives I once got an 850 at a yard sale, with one drive in it. turned out to be 1/2 a RAID 1. I looked on it and found the computer was from a medical lab and was full of medical records!It was too small to be of any use to me, so I took it apart with a hammer and put it in the metal recycling bin at the dump. -sam Hi everyone! Wow, I never expected to spark such an interesting discussion. Yes, some of you were right in that I don't believe I have a machine I can erase them in. Unless I have a card my old Yikes! will let me use. These came out of old servers and frankly I think some of them came from a local aerospace mfg, so they would have been wiped already. In the other cases, I am not sure I care, and if they were netware servers, how many people will have a netware server to pop them in to. I don't think I ever got them in a server the way I wanted. I just figured if there was a nice easy way to swipe them, I'd do it to be on the safe side. Interesting to know there is no nice easy way! Thanks for all the help :) Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:45 AM, Clark Martin wrote: Thermite; when you care enough to melt the very best. Personally I'd prefer a sabot round (APFSDS) We've always found the 9mm and .45 also do an adequate job. 30.06 with a proper backstop... -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
erase with 0, govermantal format... any program with that option handle situation and write everysector 0. This takes time, very long time if HD is big. I use only HD not any optical media for backup. Cause optical media need care... If you backup all data and trust them in 5 years you may lost many of them because hummanity and particuls... HD, and more HD I got 1 HD for usuage, 1 HD for backup, 1 HD for backup backup... Every new HD need 2 new friends, backup and backup backup... Only i afraid about massive sun blast... 2009/4/7 Sam Macomber s...@macomber.com On Apr 7, 2009, at 11:46 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: On Apr 7, 2009, at 12:40 AM, Clark Martin wrote: The problem with HD data recovery isn't that the data isn't there, it's the resources needed to recover it. Yeah, those data recovery services all sound great until you find out how much it could cost. You start realizing your data isn't worth THAT much. That depends. I've had professors pay $1500-$2000 without blinking an eye, because the data represents a half-million dollars worth of data, and maybe they'll FINALLY get into the habit of using our file server instead of their lab systems to store data. (because our file server crashed once for 4 days, 12 years ago (with ZERO loss of data), so we're clearly not reliable rolls eyes.) How much are your wedding pictures, the video of your child's first steps, all their baby pictures worth? I know the canonical answer is Well you should have had that backed up! Betcha won't do THAT again!, but that still leaves folks without those irreplaceable things. This is why people come running out of burning/flooding/collapsing buildings clutching their photo albums. Me, I'm coming out clutching usb and firewire external drives...:-) I've got a small metal box with my photo back ups(DVDs), and a dust proof binder full of my negitives that I'd be grabbing. -sam -- Baha Ata --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:24 PM, Stephen Weber maryland...@gmail.com wrote: My father paid around $400 to get his data recovered off of a dead HD, this was around 4 years ago. I back up my photo's to Google Picasa web albums which also does videos under 100mb and I've signed up for 10gb for that. For documents I use Google Docs, for anything too big, I just use Adrive, were you get 50gb for free. I've also got a iMac G3 which I use for my local back up. _ Once it is on the web it is not yours anymore. Think it is secure? No it is not. Web storage would not be a wise choice for a professional. Nor do I recommend it to families unless they just do not care who has access. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Steve R wrote: I thought one of the ways security minded people ensured thieves and law enforcement type people didn't gain access to their data was by creating a magnetic loop around the doorframe of their designated computer room so that the information on the drives was rendered useless by the magnets?? Only in Hollywood. This may work for floppies, but for things like flash RAM, as in USB sticks and the like, this has no effect. The one time Hollyweird got it right was in the Mel Gibson movie where he had thermite charges wired to the top of his drives. The next time you have a hard drive that's died, take it apart. Inside you will find magnets strong enough to hold a sizeable stack of paper on to the fridge. IBM 10K rpm SCSI drives have incredibly strong magnets inside them. These magnets are mere millimeters away from the platters. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Ernest L. Gunerius wrote: I am assuming all HD cases are made of Ferrous material. They're not, they're typically made of machined aluminum; in fact the technology used to make hard drive cases lead to the technology used to make MacBook Air and now the MacBook cases, all start with a solid block of aluminum. Typically the only ferrous parts of a hard drive are the brackets the magnets are attached to. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 11:32 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: The magnetic signal written to a sector can be read (remnants of it) even after writing zero’s to it more than 10 times. It is just more difficult and takes more time. What they do now is layer the zero writes and follow the patterns under them. Similar to digging in sedimentary soil. Perhaps, perhaps not. http://dbdev2.pharmacy.arizona.edu/miscjunk/wright_etal.pdf -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
Really whole thing is a gigantic PITA. should see the stack of old drives I've collected from old machines we've sold or given away here at work. -sam --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 11:53 AM -0400 4/6/09, Sam Macomber posted: Really whole thing is a gigantic PITA. should see the stack of old drives I've collected from old machines we've sold or given away here at work. Are you familiar with the Instructables website? Lots of interesting ideas of what to do with old computer equipment, among other things (like how to build your own Earth Box.) http://www.instructables.com/ Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: The one time Hollyweird got it right was in the Mel Gibson movie where he had thermite charges wired to the top of his drives. NASA was able to salvage and recover the data off the HDs that burned up in the Columbia shuttle accident. The problem with HD data recovery isn't that the data isn't there, it's the resources needed to recover it. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 6, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: The one time Hollyweird got it right was in the Mel Gibson movie where he had thermite charges wired to the top of his drives. NASA was able to salvage and recover the data off the HDs that burned up in the Columbia shuttle accident. The OUTSIDE of those drives was burned. The interior did have recoverable information. This is what thermite does: http://tinyurl.com/5dqxx5 When you've poured molten iron (melting point 1535 C) all over your aluminum (MP 660 C) hard drive, you ain't recovering jack, especially if you do it right and contain the reaction until it melts through the platters. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Ernest L. Gunerius wrote: I am assuming all HD cases are made of Ferrous material. They're not, they're typically made of machined aluminum; in fact the technology used to make hard drive cases lead to the technology used to make MacBook Air and now the MacBook cases, all start with a solid block of aluminum. Typically the only ferrous parts of a hard drive are the brackets the magnets are attached to. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs In that case there is no shunting and the Flux between the Poles of the external magnet and the flux can penetrate more readily through the case of the Hd. ErnieG --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.eduwrote: On Apr 6, 2009, at 11:17 AM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Apr 6, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: The one time Hollyweird got it right was in the Mel Gibson movie where he had thermite charges wired to the top of his drives. NASA was able to salvage and recover the data off the HDs that burned up in the Columbia shuttle accident. The OUTSIDE of those drives was burned. The interior did have recoverable information. This is what thermite does: http://tinyurl.com/5dqxx5 When you've poured molten iron (melting point 1535 C) all over your aluminum (MP 660 C) hard drive, you ain't recovering jack, especially if you do it right and contain the reaction until it melts through the platters. __ Thermite; when you care enough to melt the very best. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 3:57 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Kyle, it was my opinion that a strong enough mag field would erase all formatting and make it unusable. Another lister was of the opinion that since these are SCSI they could still be reformatted. What do you think? I had an IDE external wrongly low level formatted at the university iT guy recently. It has been brain dead since. But then it is not SCSI. I havn't dealt with SCSI for a while so I can't remember the ins and outs but it seems I had to worry about sector mapping even on SCSI. It was my job for about 3 months at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories (science and weapons development). We literally had to securely destroy hundreds of Mac¹s and PC¹s during their upgrade. We did so ³lovingly.² Instead of just tossing the entire units into the gigantic (think 4 dumpsters big) metallic shredder we removed the drives and got permission to donate them to charities and non profits and even give some to our friends and such. AS LONG AS THE HARD DRIVES WERE GONE AND THE FLOPPY DRIVES ALSO REMOVED. Caps on purpose. We found at the complex a degauser that literally had a handle and was smaller than a dustbuster. I wish I knew how it worked. It was beige. It had a coiled AC cord. It was rectangular and the handle was on the top. Below the handle was about 4 inches of something. So picture a rectangle with a handle on top. About 8 inches long and 4 inches wide with a cord and a button you depressed with your thumb. Since scheduling time and use of the metal shredder was really complicated...different area of the facility, security clearances etc we used this ³thing² do DESTROY hard disks. They were rendered USELESS in an instant. We would take out the floppy and smash it with a 3lb. Sledge, the set the degausser on top of the drive and hit the button, wait 3 seconds or so and blam. Gone. Dead. Since this was relatively new (1995?) we had to have it tested to make sure the data really was gone. This was weapon development stuff. Serious top secret stuff. We gave the drive to the forensic data recovery guy and said ³go for it.² About a week later he He came back to our little testing are and literally said to us, and I remember it like it was yesterday ³what did you and Trevor do to this drive?² He could not get a single bit of info off of it. It was the first drive he had ever had do this to him. He was flabbergasted. We got the clearance and just started popping these drives one after the other. Hard drives are just devices with a controller board that have metallic discs inside that have have a sector positively or negatively charged to create a 1 or a 0. This little device did something so catastrophic to the drives that they were rendered useless. And the data guys pulled the platters and put them on recovery units to see if we had just damaged the controller board. Sometimes we would stack up hard drives and play bowling. Or dominoes...your tax dollars at work. The magnetic signal written to a sector can be read (remnants of it) even after writing zero¹s to it more than 10 times. It is just more difficult and takes more time. What they do now is layer the zero writes and follow the patterns under them. Similar to digging in sedimentary soil. You are looking for a 1 inch layer of quartz but there is no quartz to be found. So you dig deeper and deeper and deeper until you find the layer of quartz (or information in this case) and then you set up the unit to data mine or real world mine at that level. I can¹t wait for the new organic drives to come out. I wonder how we will accomplish the same thing? The moral of the story is that you probably can not safely EVER remove the data off of a hard disc. Writing Zero¹s to it once will deter 99.99% of most people. I hand drives off after one write all the time. But if you ever want to truly make a drive unreadable take it out back and bash it into little pieces. It can be fun. Anyone see the printer scene in ³Office Space.² Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 11:32 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: It was my job for about 3 months at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories (science and weapons development). We literally had to securely destroy hundreds of Mac’s and PC’s during their upgrade ... In a former job at a large mainframe manufacturer, we sold mainframes and systems to every one of the so-called three-letter agencies. In every case, magnetic media was treated as the proverbial Roach Motel ... media went in, it NEVER came out. The agencies took care of destruction, and paid full retail price for the replacement. Even on mandatory engineering changes, sometimes the agencies elected to shred the PCBs even though the subject boards did not contain any memory elements. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 2:32 AM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/4/09 3:57 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Kyle, it was my opinion that a strong enough mag field would erase all formatting and make it unusable. Another lister was of the opinion that since these are SCSI they could still be reformatted. What do you think? I had an IDE external wrongly low level formatted at the university iT guy recently. It has been brain dead since. But then it is not SCSI. I havn't dealt with SCSI for a while so I can't remember the ins and outs but it seems I had to worry about sector mapping even on SCSI. It was my job for about 3 months at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories (science and weapons development). We literally had to securely destroy hundreds of Mac’s and PC’s during their upgrade. We did so “lovingly.” Instead of just tossing the entire units into the gigantic (think 4 dumpsters big) metallic shredder we removed the drives and got permission to donate them to charities and non profits and even give some to our friends and such. AS LONG AS THE HARD DRIVES WERE GONE AND THE FLOPPY DRIVES ALSO REMOVED. Caps on purpose. We found at the complex a degauser that literally had a handle and was smaller than a dustbuster. I wish I knew how it worked. It was beige. It had a coiled AC cord. It was rectangular and the handle was on the top. Below the handle was about 4 inches of something. So picture a rectangle with a handle on top. About 8 inches long and 4 inches wide with a cord and a button you depressed with your thumb. A T shaped handle? Sounds like a degausser I bought years ago when reel to reel was popular I still have it. it's a big electromagnet. Since scheduling time a nd use of the metal shredder was really complicated...different area of the facility, security clearances etc we used this “thing” do DESTROY hard disks. They were rendered USELESS in an instant. We would take out the floppy and smash it with a 3lb. Sledge, the set the degausser on top of the drive and hit the button, wait 3 seconds or so and blam. Gone. Dead. Since this was relatively new (1995?) we had to have it tested to make sure the data really was gone. This was weapon development stuff. Serious top secret stuff. We gave the drive to the forensic data recovery guy and said “go for it.” About a week later he He came back to our little testing are and literally said to us, and I remember it like it was yesterday “what did you and Trevor do to this drive?” He could not get a single bit of info off of it. It was the first drive he had ever had do this to him. He was flabbergasted. We got the clearance and just started popping these drives one after the other. Hard drives are just devices with a controller board that have metallic discs inside that have have a sector positively or negatively charged to create a 1 or a 0. This little device did something so catastrophic to the drives that they were rendered useless. And the data guys pulled the platters and put them on recovery units to see if we had just damaged the controller board. Sometimes we would stack up hard drives and play bowling. Or dominoes...your tax dollars at work. The magnetic signal written to a sector can be read (remnants of it) even after writing zero’s to it more than 10 times. It is just more difficult and takes more time. What they do now is layer the zero writes and follow the patterns under them. Similar to digging in sedimentary soil. You are looking for a 1 inch layer of quartz but there is no quartz to be found. So you dig deeper and deeper and deeper until you find the layer of quartz (or information in this case) and then you set up the unit to data mine or real world mine at that level. I can’t wait for the new organic drives to come out. I wonder how we will accomplish the same thing? The moral of the story is that you probably can not safely EVER remove the data off of a hard disc. Writing Zero’s to it once will deter 99.99% of most people. I hand drives off after one write all the time. But if you ever want to truly make a drive unreadable take it out back and bash it into little pieces. It can be fun. Anyone see the printer scene in “Office Space.” Diane wanted to resell them. So she needs to erase without making a change that would render them useless EXCEPT she has no way to nuke and pave SCSI. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 2:32 AM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/4/09 3:57 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Kyle, it was my opinion that a strong enough mag field would erase all formatting and make it unusable. Another lister was of the opinion that since these are SCSI they could still be reformatted. What do you think? I had an IDE external wrongly low level formatted at the university iT guy recently. It has been brain dead since. But then it is not SCSI. I havn't dealt with SCSI for a while so I can't remember the ins and outs but it seems I had to worry about sector mapping even on SCSI. It was my job for about 3 months at Lawrence Livermore Laboratories (science and weapons development). We literally had to securely destroy hundreds of Mac’s and PC’s during their upgrade. We did so “lovingly.” Instead of just tossing the entire units into the gigantic (think 4 dumpsters big) metallic shredder we removed the drives and got permission to donate them to charities and non profits and even give some to our friends and such. AS LONG AS THE HARD DRIVES WERE GONE AND THE FLOPPY DRIVES ALSO REMOVED. Caps on purpose. We found at the complex a degauser that literally had a handle and was smaller than a dustbuster. I wish I knew how it worked. It was beige. It had a coiled AC cord. It was rectangular and the handle was on the top. Below the handle was about 4 inches of something. So picture a rectangle with a handle on top. About 8 inches long and 4 inches wide with a cord and a button you depressed with your thumb. Since scheduling time and use of the metal shredder was really complicated...different area of the facility, security clearances etc we used this “thing” do DESTROY hard disks. They were rendered USELESS in an instant. We would take out the floppy and smash it with a 3lb. Sledge, the set the degausser on top of the drive and hit the button, wait 3 seconds or so and blam. Gone. Dead. Since this was relatively new (1995?) we had to have it tested to make sure the data really was gone. This was weapon development stuff. Serious top secret stuff. We gave the drive to the forensic data recovery guy and said “go for it.” About a week later he He came back to our little testing are and literally said to us, and I remember it like it was yesterday “what did you and Trevor do to this drive?” He could not get a single bit of info off of it. It was the first drive he had ever had do this to him. He was flabbergasted. We got the clearance and just started popping these drives one after the other. Hard drives are just devices with a controller board that have metallic discs inside that have have a sector positively or negatively charged to create a 1 or a 0. This little device did something so catastrophic to the drives that they were rendered useless. And the data guys pulled the platters and put them on recovery units to see if we had just damaged the controller board. Sometimes we would stack up hard drives and play bowling. Or dominoes...your tax dollars at work. Cool story. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/5/09 12:23 AM, PeterH peterh5...@rattlebrain.com Broadcast into the ether: Even on mandatory engineering changes, sometimes the agencies elected to shred the PCBs even though the subject boards did not contain any memory elements. Sounds exactly like my experience. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/5/09 12:52 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Kyle, it was my opinion that a strong enough mag field would erase all formatting and make it unusable. Another lister was of the opinion that since these are SCSI they could still be reformatted. What do you think? I would just use a good old school disk utility and erase it. Like I said. No one needs to worry, almost all users just want a new drive. They are not going to try to pick apart any data from it. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:05 AM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/5/09 12:52 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Kyle, it was my opinion that a strong enough mag field would erase all formatting and make it unusable. Another lister was of the opinion that since these are SCSI they could still be reformatted. What do you think? I would just use a good old school disk utility and erase it. Like I said. No one needs to worry, almost all users just want a new drive. They are not going to try to pick apart any data from it. Dianes problem was not having a SCSI machine to do it. Ergo the demag idea. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 11:41 PM -0400 4/3/09, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane mailto:di...@mathermotorsports.comdi...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? _ Please, Please NO! You would make them unusable. Really? That's the first time I heard that. I'd guess with a strong enough magnet, anything is possible. Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 7:45 AM -0400 4/4/2009, diane wrote: At 11:41 PM -0400 4/3/09, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane mailto:di...@mathermotorsports.comdi...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Please, Please NO! You would make them unusable. Really? That's the first time I heard that. I'd guess with a strong enough magnet, anything is possible. No. SCSI drives can be low-level formatted. So this is not a problem. Of greater concern is the IQ and skills of the person buying the drive - they'll hit you back complaining the drive doesn't work and want to return it. To avoid that hassle, it would be easier to just zero and re-initialize them. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 10:07 AM -0400 4/4/09, Dan wrote: At 7:45 AM -0400 4/4/2009, diane wrote: At 11:41 PM -0400 4/3/09, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane mailto:di...@mathermotorsports.comdi...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Please, Please NO! You would make them unusable. Really? That's the first time I heard that. I'd guess with a strong enough magnet, anything is possible. No. SCSI drives can be low-level formatted. So this is not a problem. Of greater concern is the IQ and skills of the person buying the drive - they'll hit you back complaining the drive doesn't work and want to return it. To avoid that hassle, it would be easier to just zero and re-initialize them. Unless I have a SCSI card in my old Yikes! I don't have a way to do that. They came from Novell servers anyway so I suspect that few would even be able to read any data that may be left. Thanks! Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 10:40 AM, diane di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: Unless I have a SCSI card in my old Yikes! I don't have a way to do that. They came from Novell servers anyway so I suspect that few would even be able to read any data that may be left. I would try selling them on the LEM swap list. But you will have to list them as untested and therefore sold as is which will reduce the asking price. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
diane wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Thanks, Diane There really is no quick and easy way that I know of. It kind of depends on what kind of data was on the hard drives as to what level of erase you need. The best way is to use an application that writes either all zeros or random data over the drive. Disk Utility in OS X will do this, but if you are talking SCSI you're probably not working with OS X. A big magnet simply doesn't work. Years ago I had a friend that put an old hard drive on a bulk tape eraser at the radio station. This thing would erase a whole tape reel with one zap. Didn't do a thing to the hard drive. Everything was still readable. Hope this helps, Stephen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 3, 2009, at 7:54 PM, diane wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Just reformat them, or if you have access to one of the servers, use Darik's Boot-n-Nuke on 'em. A large magnet will not affect them, at least not a large magnet you're likely to have access to, unless you also have a large steel recycling yard or cyclotron in your backyard... One firther note...Are these Compaq-labelled Seagate OEM drives? If so, the 4.3 gig ones may be permanently set to needing an external signal to start up...I had one, and I always had to use SCSI Probe to poke it before it spun up, no matter how the jumpers were set -- Bruce Johnson U of Az College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions don't have opinions, merely custom --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
My personal knowledge is a bit stale but last I knew a step in fabrication of a hard drive was a run through a precision spinning table that wrote basic magnetic information on a disk that was intended for use by software that could format the platters into sectors and cylinders. It's likely that the magnetic fields used for that purpose were considerably higher than those used for normal reading and writing but it would be quite possible to destroy the information needed for reformatting were a large magnet to be used. Permanent magnets can be used to demagnetize floppy disks. Those depend on careful alignment of the write heads on the drives for formatting of the disk and the read and write fields are high enough to saturate the hysteresis curve of the magnetic oxide. More or less high density hard drives behave like analog devices these days with the digital data being treated much like a telephone modem talking to a tape recorder only at vastly higher baud rates. A moment for an old story please: In the early 1970's my laboratory with the US Navy became aware of a bunch of small computers that were to be decommissioned by the Air Force. The thought was that each of us could actually have one on his desktop. But. . . The computers were coming out of intercontinental missiles that were being replaced in their silos with newer beasts. The disks in them contained highly classified targeting information and nobody knew how to erase them. Overwriting a few hundred times was not good enough because special techniques were available to look only at the very edges of the tracks and recover information. The computers, with their disks, were crushed. -- -- From the U S of A, the only socialist country that refuses to admit it. -- --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? On Apr 3, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: You would make them unusable Is this true? What is the mechanism that makes them unusable? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 10:21 AM, Stephen E. Bodnar wrote: A big magnet simply doesn't work. Years ago I had a friend that put an old hard drive on a bulk tape eraser at the radio station. This thing would erase a whole tape reel with one zap. Didn't do a thing to the hard drive. Everything was still readable. This seems reasonable to me. The idea that it would render a HD unusable I doubt. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 7:40 AM, diane di...@mathermotorsports.com Broadcast into the ether: Unless I have a SCSI card in my old Yikes! I don't have a way to do that. They came from Novell servers anyway so I suspect that few would even be able to read any data that may be left. It takes 7 (minimum) zero writes to make a drive's Data unrecoverable, and even then I have seen it recovered. But most people do not have the skills to recover the data after a simple single pass, so go ahead and write 0's to it once and sell it. Unless you are selling it to an ex husband or someone you suspect is a criminal go ahead. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 8:21 AM, Stephen E. Bodnar sbod...@gci.net Broadcast into the ether: A big magnet simply doesn't work. Years ago I had a friend that put an old hard drive on a bulk tape eraser at the radio station. This thing would erase a whole tape reel with one zap. Didn't do a thing to the hard drive. Everything was still readable. We had one at our shop that would kill a Hard Drive in one shot. Magnets do work. You must have had the wrong kind. An AC magnet works, but it will make the drive unusable. IF you are really concerned about data security the only efffective ways to ensure this are to smash it with a hammer, put it in a metal shredder or go to a foundry and melt it (or something else creative). Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 9:21 AM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Broadcast into the ether: A large magnet will not affect them, at least not a large magnet you're likely to have access to, unless you also have a large steel recycling yard or cyclotron in your backyard... I think I am gonna have a heart attackBruce is wrong about something. Someone make sure an asteroid isn't about to plummet into the earth. http://www.degausser.info/degaussers/hd.htm And from wikipedia: Data is stored in the magnetic media, such as hard drives, floppy disks and magnetic tape, by making very small areas called magnetic domains change their magnetic alignment to be in the direction of an applied magnetic field. This phenomenon occurs in much the same way a compass needle points in the direction of the earth's magnetic field. Degaussing, commonly called erasure, leaves the domains in random patterns with no preference to orientation, thereby rendering previous data unrecoverable. There are some domains whose magnetic alignment is not randomized after degaussing. The information these domains represent is commonly called magnetic remanence since it is due to remanent magnetization. Proper degaussing will ensure there is insufficient magnetic remanence to reconstruct the data. And the only reason I know this is it is one of the tools we use at the government lab to destroy drives...the other is the metal shredder which is WAY more fun. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 10:57 AM, Kris Tilford wrote: Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? On Apr 3, 2009, at 10:41 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: You would make them unusable Is this true? What is the mechanism that makes them unusable? The data is comprised of manufacturer's data cylinders and servo data, in addition to user data. Any erasure method which compromises any of the manufacturer's or servo data will render the drive completely useless. Small system drives are always of the fixed block architecture type, wherein the formatting was accomplished at the time of manufacture. Small system drives have not had a true formatting/initializing capability, in the traditional sense, for a number of decades. The format drive command is usually treated as a NOP (i.e., no operation). Mainframe drives of the count, key and data type, which have NEVER been found on small systems, always reformatted each track as these were written. It is still possible to compromise these drives by erasing the manufacturer's cylinders. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
Kyle Hansen wrote: And the only reason I know this is it is one of the tools we use at the government lab to destroy drives...the other is the metal shredder which is WAY more fun. Kyle Hansen Ya, but they don't let civillains have these, unless you roll your own from surplus! Stephen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
At 12:18 PM -0700 4/4/2009, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 4/4/09 9:21 AM, Bruce Johnson john...@pharmacy.arizona.edu Broadcast into the ether: A large magnet will not affect them, at least not a large magnet you're likely to have access to, unless you also have a large steel recycling yard or cyclotron in your backyard... I think I am gonna have a heart attackBruce is wrong about something. Someone make sure an asteroid isn't about to plummet into the earth. Re-read what Bruce wrote. A magnet that you're likely to have access... Ok... Just for kicks... I've got a drive here and a honking big magnet. The magnet is so strong that once it grabs the drive, it won't let go unless I pin the drive down with my feet and wiggle the magnet off with both hands. After an hour of that exposure... I hooked the drive up and . it works fine. Most of the data seems intact; very little seems scrambled. And Disk Utility found no errors in the file system. I'd say one needs a lot more powerful mechanism - like a real a/c degausser. Of more concern to me is that whole cyclotron bit. Bruce, is there something you're not telling us? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
I thought one of the ways security minded people ensured thieves and law enforcement type people didn't gain access to their data was by creating a magnetic loop around the doorframe of their designated computer room so that the information on the drives was rendered useless by the magnets?? Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
That was in the Floppy Disc age :-) Peter M. Sent with my mobile device -Original Message- From: Steve R mailing.lists.2...@gmail.com Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 16:53:54 To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Erase a drive to sell I thought one of the ways security minded people ensured thieves and law enforcement type people didn't gain access to their data was by creating a magnetic loop around the doorframe of their designated computer room so that the information on the drives was rendered useless by the magnets?? Steve R --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 3:42 PM, Dan wrote: Ok... Just for kicks... I've got a drive here and a honking big magnet. That's the Feynman spirit; less words, more action. Quick dirty wins. After an hour of that exposure... I hooked the drive up and . it works fine. Case closed. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On 4/4/09 1:42 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Re-read what Bruce wrote. A magnet that you're likely to have access... I could buy one of these at a local store. The one we had was the size and shape of one of those Paddles you see on ER when they zap someone to reboot their heart. It *is* a commonly available item. Those gigantic pick up a car magnets are not. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: But most people do not have the skills to recover the data after a simple single pass, so go ahead and write 0's to it once and sell it. My understanding of the issue is that she doesn't have a SCSI machine (or a SCSI card in a modern Mac) to do this. Recall that the first time someone suggested she zero the drive, Diane replied: On Apr 4, 2009, at 9:40 AM, diane wrote: Unless I have a SCSI card in my old Yikes! I don't have a way to do that. I've heard two opposing takes on whether using a magnet is effective and/or safe. Anyone know for sure? I do know that magnets have very different properties. Those thin refrigerator magnets are done in layers and designed to be pretty strong but only very close to their surface. I expect you need a magnet that's strong enough at the appropriate distance to affect the actual disks of magnetic media inside the drive case. I have no idea if a magnet you might have around the house is capable of this, and if so, if it indeed would make the drive unusable. Joe == Joe the Juggler 4148 Wyoming St. St. Louis, MO 63116 (314) 771-3243 http://joethejuggler.com == --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 3:42 PM, Dan wrote: Ok... Just for kicks... I've got a drive here and a honking big magnet. The magnet is so strong that once it grabs the drive, it won't let go unless I pin the drive down with my feet and wiggle the magnet off with both hands. After an hour of that exposure... I hooked the drive up and . it works fine. Most of the data seems intact; very little seems scrambled. And Disk Utility found no errors in the file system. I'd say one needs a lot more powerful mechanism - like a real a/c degausser. And even so, if the data on the drive is very sensitive, since she has no way of testing whether the scrambling worked, she would never know if it was successfully erase (or still usable). == Joe the Juggler 4148 Wyoming St. St. Louis, MO 63116 (314) 771-3243 http://joethejuggler.com == --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Apr 4, 2009, at 5:02 PM, Ernest L. Gunerius wrote: I once ruined a Credit Card by putting it in a shirt pocket where I had forgotten I was carrying a small magnet. I used to wear a name tag held on by a small magnet, and I ruined several credit cards that way! Joe == Joe the Juggler 4148 Wyoming St. St. Louis, MO 63116 (314) 771-3243 http://joethejuggler.com == --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 4/4/09 8:21 AM, Stephen E. Bodnar sbod...@gci.net Broadcast into the ether: A big magnet simply doesn't work. Years ago I had a friend that put an old hard drive on a bulk tape eraser at the radio station. This thing would erase a whole tape reel with one zap. Didn't do a thing to the hard drive. Everything was still readable. We had one at our shop that would kill a Hard Drive in one shot. Magnets do work. You must have had the wrong kind. An AC magnet works, but it will make the drive unusable. IF you are really concerned about data security the only efffective ways to ensure this are to smash it with a hammer, put it in a metal shredder or go to a foundry and melt it (or something else creative). Kyle Hansen -- _ Kyle, it was my opinion that a strong enough mag field would erase all formatting and make it unusable. Another lister was of the opinion that since these are SCSI they could still be reformatted. What do you think? I had an IDE external wrongly low level formatted at the university iT guy recently. It has been brain dead since. But then it is not SCSI. I havn't dealt with SCSI for a while so I can't remember the ins and outs but it seems I had to worry about sector mapping even on SCSI. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
diane wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Thanks, Diane If you were close to OKC, OK I could do it for you. It appears from your web site that you are on the east coast. Is there a user group in your area that could erase them for you? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Erase a drive to sell
I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Thanks, Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? _ Please, Please NO! You would make them unusable. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Erase a drive to sell
On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 10:54 PM, diane di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote: I have a number of SCSI drives from Compaq servers ranging in size from 4.3 - 18.2 gb. I'm putting most of them up for sale and would like a quick and easy way to scramble whatever data may be on them. Will a magnet work OK and how heavy a magnet should it be? Thanks, Diane --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ Do you have a SCSI machine on which you can reformat them in a Mac or FAT32 format? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
