Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Change machine specific installer requirements Date:Dienstag 20 Juli 2010N From:Dan dantear...@gmail.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com So you have a machine with no media... What are your options? Not just one… I got: - G3 BW “Yosemite” @ 350 MHz - G4 AGP @ 400 MHz (now upgraded to Dual-450 MHz) - G4 AGP (what I believed to be a GE, but actually is an AGP) @ 1.4 GHz - G4 QS (original) @ 733 MHz (now upgraded to Dual-800 MHz) - G4 MDD @ Dual-1.0 GHz (now upgraded to Dual-1.42 GHz) - G5 “Late 2005” Dual-Core 2.0 GHz All the G4s and the G3 I recieved literally out of the trash. The G3 was such an example. The G4s where in good working oder, but all of them without accessories like manual or discs. The G5 was bought by me and it came in the original packing, including all accessories. Now, the software. I bought: - Mac OS X 10.3 + 10.4 Upgrade + Mac OS 9.2.2 (eMac version) at fastmac.com - Mac OS X 10.2 on eBay (retail, all in the original box, looks very okay). - Mac OS X 10.5.4 family version (5 licenses), new. - Mac OS 9.0.4 (“Power Mac G4” – but which one?) on eBay (only the discs). Dispite selecting “german version” for Mac OS 9.2.2 from fastmac.com, I recieved the english version. Well, I didn't complain, since fastmac is in the U.S. and I'm in Europe. It wouldn't have been worth the effort. Mac OS 9.0.4 is also the english version. Mac OS X 10.2 is retail, so I can install it on any *one* Mac I desire. Mac OS X 10.3 from fastmac.com is all grey discs, with “eMac” written on them. The Tiger upgrade has “CPU Drop In DVD” written on it. So I can install 10.3 *or* 10.4 on any *one* Mac I desire, although I'm not 100% sure about this due to the grey discs and the “eMac” labelling. But since I bought it from fastmac.com!?!? So I run 10.4 on my G3 BW Yosemite 350 MHz and I have a legal feeling about it. I can install 10.5 on five Macs, so I did that. Works well on the G4 AGP with Dual-450 MHz CPU, but not very well on single 400 MHz CPU (which I don't use anymore, since all are upgraded now except the G3, which doesn't run 10.5 anyways). I still don't have a german version of Mac OS 9 for my Macs. Original Mac OS versions: * Power Mac G4 BW 350 MHz: Mac OS 8.5.1 or 8.6 * Power Mac G4 AGP 400 MHz: Mac OS 8.6 * Power Mac G4 QS 733 MHz: Mac OS 9.2 + Mac OS X 10.0 * Power Mac G4 MDD Dual-1.0 GHz: Mac OS 9.2.2 + Mac OS X 10.2 So: I could install Mac OS 9.2 on the QS (because it is licensed so). Or I could install my retail copy of Mac OS X 10.2 on the G4 MDD *additionally* to an other Mac, since the MDD includes the license for 10.2 anyway. The official thing to do would be to contact Apple and ask for replacement media. They have 'em! Ya just gotta pay for shipping. I will try that. It will be fun, I'll have them combine the shippment costs to one package for all my lost media. Only, I seriously doupt that Apple has original media laying around for people like me. Or, if you already have a like machine, you could use its media. Did that as good as I could, but mostly I'm running 10.5 on machines that cope with it. Then there are the gray market pulls... If someone has a dead Mac, that they're parting out... it's a bit of a gray area, but semi-legal to purchase that dead Mac's media for your like-mac. The key here is that Apple doesn't pursue these cases... Had no lock with that. Especially Mac OS 9 and prior is hard the get in the German language. As always, many thanks. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 19, 2010, at 4:00 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: This is a dilemma! One the one hand you may have (get, buy) a PowerPC (also Intel?) Mac. The bad thing about it: it didn't came with the original installation discs; they simply seem to be lost, over the years maybe (like for tons of G4 Macs). Why is this so bad? Because without them you don't have a chance to reinstall the original operating system with the original *and licensed* software. But you *know* that this specific model came with such software. The software was paid for, because there was no other chance to get a Mac. (There was never even a single Mac sold without Mac OS and some software of any kind!) So, the software (discs) got lost, but the license(s) is(are) still valid. After all, you didn't buy the software, you just bought the license – you have the right to use the software, not to own it. But without the installation discs you're stuck… Do you also have those other discs (from a different Mac) laying around? See the dilemma? Yes, and despite what some say... I'll betcha that over 50% of Macs running OSX are doing so onn copied S/W. Just my 2¢ worth. JT Penny Stock Jumping 2000% Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today! http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4c44bdbea9049342c2cst06duc -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 19, 2010, at 2:00 PM, Mac User #330250 wrote: This is a dilemma! One the one hand you may have (get, buy) a PowerPC (also Intel?) Mac. The bad thing about it: it didn't came with the original installation discs; they simply seem to be lost, over the years maybe (like for tons of G4 Macs). Why is this so bad? Because without them you don't have a chance to reinstall the original operating system with the original *and licensed* software. But you *know* that this specific model came with such software. The software was paid for, because there was no other chance to get a Mac. (There was never even a single Mac sold without Mac OS and some software of any kind!) So, the software (discs) got lost, but the license(s) is(are) still valid. After all, you didn't buy the software, you just bought the license – you have the right to use the software, not to own it. But without the installation discs you're stuck… Do you also have those other discs (from a different Mac) laying around? See the dilemma? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 Well said there's no pirating going on, it's just like you said all Macs come with Apple OS, not so with Windbloze boxes. So according to the computer police if you lost the disks over the years by law you must destroy that orphaned Mac?? Crapola I say. Like someone said Saturday sell the Apple stock when that happens. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Change machine specific installer requirements Date:Montag 19 Juli 2010N From:James Therrault jetas...@netzero.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Yes, and despite what some say... I'll betcha that over 50% of Macs running OSX are doing so onn copied S/W. Since software is digitally copied, the copy is 1:1 (byte for byte) like the original. The installed version on the hard drive is exactly the same. It's not wrong/illegal/a bad thing to use a copy – ss long as the license is valid… Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
-- Original message -- Subject: Re: Change machine specific installer requirements Date:Montag 19 Juli 2010N From:John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com So according to the computer police if you lost the disks over the years by law you must destroy that orphaned Mac?? No, you can always install Linux :-) (this had to come… sorry for the inconvenience…) My approach is this: because the original software will only run on this model of Mac, it is always okay to install a copy of the shipped Mac OS on this very Mac. Example: The Power Mac G5 “Late 2005” came with Mac OS X 10.4.2 pre-installed and with the original installation disc+bundled software. Suppose these discs were lost, you got the Mac (bought it or whatever) and the hard drive is broken. It *can only be* legal and okay to install Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger on it. You won't get the original software bundle back, but at least you will get the operating system right. So, what is illegal about that? Okay, suppose you bought the Mac on eBay. The seller was a bit greedy and wants to sell the installation discs separately to make more money. You didn't get them, so someone else must have recieved them. But according to the SLA these discs are only to be installed on a specific model, right? They are not retail. So, the buyer is making something illegal if (s)he installs it on a different Mac. There we are again, you can safely install a *copy* of the shipped Mac OS version on your Mac without the original discs. Another hint, packed in a fictive and completely nonsense example: suppose 500 Power Macs G7 Late 2010 were build. If this were the case, also 500 original installation discs of Mac OS X 10.6/PPC were to be shipped with them. So, if someone else buys one of them and destroys the union of hardware and bundled software, (s)he still cannot install it on an other Mac *legally*. Thus, the 500 Power Macs will *always* run the legal software, wheather installed from the original media or from copies. Am I right, or did I miss an importaint detail? Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
First -- There is NO dilemma. You must keep in mind the difference between the software LICENSE and the software MEDIA. At 11:32 PM +0200 7/19/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: So according to the computer police if you lost the disks over the years by law you must destroy that orphaned Mac?? Don't be absurd. My approach is this: because the original software will only run on this model of Mac, it is always okay to install a copy of the shipped Mac OS on this very Mac. Correct! Okay, suppose you bought the Mac on eBay. The seller was a bit greedy and wants to sell the installation discs separately to make more money. Turn his a** in for piracy. There we are again, you can safely install a *copy* of the shipped Mac OS version on your Mac without the original discs. So you have a machine with no media... What are your options? The official thing to do would be to contact Apple and ask for replacement media. They have 'em! Ya just gotta pay for shipping. Or, if you already have a like machine, you could use its media. Then there are the gray market pulls... If someone has a dead Mac, that they're parting out... it's a bit of a gray area, but semi-legal to purchase that dead Mac's media for your like-mac. The key here is that Apple doesn't pursue these cases... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On 7/17/10 10:29 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? - Dan. Dan is correct. The machine specific discs have a piece of software that launches pre-install that verifies it is installing on the machine it was made for. It IS pirating to try to change this. And if you succeed you may be severely disappointed. It may have been specific to a model that had a different driver set and will screw your install up completely. Most of them do not have a universal OS behind that software. One version of the eMac installers did and a couple others. But not many. So you might install and get no video because you have an Nvidia graphics card and that OS only has the Radeon driver set. The RETAIL disks are universal. They have a piece of software that looks to see what hardware it is installing on and then installs the appropriate drivers. Technically, using a non machine specific disk on a different machine is pirating the Mac OS and against the EULA and against this list's rules. The list you want to use for that would be that big one out there called Google. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 18, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 7/17/10 10:29 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? - Dan. Dan is correct. The machine specific discs have a piece of software that launches pre-install that verifies it is installing on the machine it was made for. It IS pirating to try to change this. And if you succeed you may be severely disappointed. It may have been specific to a model that had a different driver set and will screw your install up completely. Most of them do not have a universal OS behind that software. One version of the eMac installers did and a couple others. But not many. So you might install and get no video because you have an Nvidia graphics card and that OS only has the Radeon driver set. The RETAIL disks are universal. They have a piece of software that looks to see what hardware it is installing on and then installs the appropriate drivers. AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel on a MacBook or Mac Mini at ant price? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On 7/18/10 12:22 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel Tiger was compiled to run on intel only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. Same with Snow Leopard. Since it was compiled as an intel stack it won't run on PPC. You can't hack that. You would have to write your own OS. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On 7/18/10 2:09 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 7/18/10 12:22 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: Tiger was compiled to run on PPC only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. Same with Snow Leopard. Since it was compiled as an intel stack it won't run on PPC. You can't hack that. You would have to write your own OS. Sorry. Mistyped that last one. --- The first time Microsoft produces something that doesn't suck will be when they start making vacuum cleaners --- -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 18, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 7/18/10 12:22 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel Tiger was compiled to run on intel only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. I believe you meant PPC machine rather than non PPC machine Same with Snow Leopard. Since it was compiled as an intel stack it won't run on PPC. You can't hack that. You would have to write your own OS. I think John was talking about downgrading an Intel Mac that originally came with Leopard back to Tiger? The problem here is that there is no retail universal Tiger Intel disc available, they were all machine specific discs. Such a downgrade installation would require changing the machine specific OSInstall.dist file in order to install Tiger onto a newer Mac. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 18, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: On Jul 18, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 7/18/10 12:22 PM, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel Tiger was compiled to run on intel only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. I believe you meant PPC machine rather than non PPC machine Same with Snow Leopard. Since it was compiled as an intel stack it won't run on PPC. You can't hack that. You would have to write your own OS. I think John was talking about downgrading an Intel Mac that originally came with Leopard back to Tiger? The problem here is that there is no retail universal Tiger Intel disc available, they were all machine specific discs. Such a downgrade installation would require changing the machine specific OSInstall.dist file in order to install Tiger onto a newer Mac. Thanks for that clarification, I have no intention of pirating any thing any more than the Apple reseller and Repair Depot do. The DownGrade is to put the machine back to new state. A CCC would've been in order here but some owners don't know about that stuff. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 18, 2010, at 2:20 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: Tiger was compiled to run on PPC only based machines so you can't run it on a non PPC machine. However, The first Intel iMacs came pre-installed with Tiger (OS 10.4.4): http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/imac/stats/imac_cd_1.83_17.html The early MacBooks (Intel only) also came pre-installled with Tiger (OS 10.4.6): http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook/stats/macbook_1.83.html -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
Kyle Hansen wrote: Sorry. Mistyped that last one. To follow up on my message, I was thinking of Leopard. Too many felines… Tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
At 12:22 PM -0700 7/18/2010, John Carmonne wrote: AFAIK threre is no retail universal disc for Tiger Intel on a MacBook or Mac Mini at ant price? Correct. Apple never released a universal Tiger. The Tiger retail kits are all PPC-only. The early x86 Macs came with machine-specific x86-only discs. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: Recently someone posted the method of fixing machine specific install disk to work on any machine. What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 17, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Dan wrote: At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: Recently someone posted the method of fixing machine specific install disk to work on any machine. What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. Pirating? I bought and paid for and own this stuff plain and simple. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 17, 2010, at 10:33 AM, John Carmonne wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Dan wrote: At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: Recently someone posted the method of fixing machine specific install disk to work on any machine. What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. Pirating? I bought and paid for and own this stuff plain and simple. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP Perhaps a read through the SLA is in order. Amanda -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
At 10:33 AM -0700 7/17/2010, John Carmonne wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Dan wrote: At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: Recently someone posted the method of fixing machine specific install disk to work on any machine. What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? Pirating? I bought and paid for and own this stuff plain and simple. The machine specific discs are licensed to a particular machine. Using them on other Macs is a violation of the license. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
[Manager Comment] Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 17, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Amanda Ward wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 10:33 AM, John Carmonne wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 10:29 AM, Dan wrote: At 5:33 AM -0700 7/16/2010, John Carmonne wrote: Recently someone posted the method of fixing machine specific install disk to work on any machine. What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? You're asking for assistance in pirating the Mac OS. Unacceptable. Nannys? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. Pirating? I bought and paid for and own this stuff plain and simple. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP Perhaps a read through the SLA is in order. Amanda Indeed! Apple Inc. SLA (Software License Agreement) for Mac OS X clearly states: you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, modify, or create derivative works of the Apple Software or any part thereof. Discussions about, and especially requests for assistance in undertaking any of the above prohibited activities, are not allowed on any LEM group. Members who violate our rules may be subject to moderation or banning. Fabian Fang LEM G-Group Manager -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Sat, 17 Jul 2010 10:33:17 -0700, John Carmonne wrote: Pirating? I bought and paid for and own this stuff plain and simple. Legally you do not own the software, you have a license to use it within the bounds of Apple's user agreement. Unfortunately Apple's user agreement prohibits using software restore discs for machines it was not intended for, or to use them for more than one machine unless you have some sort of bulk license such as a family pack or a commercial license. Whether we like it or not, using Apple's software in violation of their user agreement is illegal just as it is illegal to do the same with MS, Adobe, or any other software. Tina -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
I agree, it's probably in violation of SLA. A question - Apple no longer sells Tiger, correct? When I buy a used Mac that contains an OS, but not the discs, seller is in violation, right? At what point does hacking your own disc to run on another machine when the first died, ok? By the way - I don't see Leopard available for sale on the Apple Site. Only Snow Leopard. So, knowing that any Leopard Discs for sale are probably discs that have been used, and since they are now being sold separately (from a machine) buying them is participating in the pirating as well. How does a new G4 owner get legit? This is a devil's advocate question. I have 4 G4 MDDs in my house running the Family Plan Leopard. One machine came with it, and when I saw how well it ran, I ponied up the money to run it legit on all machines. Pirating? I bought and paid for and own this stuff plain and simple. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP Perhaps a read through the SLA is in order. Amanda -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
At 11:34 AM -0700 7/17/2010, JoeTaxpayer wrote: I agree, it's probably in violation of SLA. No, not probably. IS. Apple no longer sells Tiger, correct? Incorrect. Just like they do with all their legacy products -- if they have the kits around, they will sell them. Mostly you have to call and ask etc. When I buy a used Mac that contains an OS, but not the discs, seller is in violation, right? Correct. The seller should have included the original bundled software -- ALL the bundled software, not just the OS. At what point does hacking your own disc to run on another machine when the first died, ok? It's never ok, according to the license. That other machine needs it's own license. ONLY *retail* versions of Mac OS or Mac OS X are transferrable. By the way - I don't see Leopard available for sale on the Apple Site. Only Snow Leopard. So, knowing that any Leopard Discs for sale are probably discs that have been used, and since they are now being sold separately (from a machine) buying them is participating in the pirating as well. How does a new G4 owner get legit? Just because it's not listed on their web site doesn't mean it's not available. The Apple Store I was in a few weeks ago had Leopard kits - but they were stashed in a room in back. You had to ask for them. At this point, since all x86 Macs can run Snow Leopard, it really makes no sense for them to keep Leopard on hand. There are many legit resellers that still carry the older Macs OS kits too. This is a devil's advocate question. I have 4 G4 MDDs in my house running the Family Plan Leopard. One machine came with it, and when I saw how well it ran, I ponied up the money to run it legit on all machines. Good! - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 17, 2010, at 11:53 AM, Dan wrote: At 11:34 AM -0700 7/17/2010, JoeTaxpayer wrote: I agree, it's probably in violation of SLA. No, not probably. IS. Apple no longer sells Tiger, correct? Incorrect. Just like they do with all their legacy products -- if they have the kits around, they will sell them. Mostly you have to call and ask etc. When I buy a used Mac that contains an OS, but not the discs, seller is in violation, right? Correct. The seller should have included the original bundled software -- ALL the bundled software, not just the OS. Gee that's funny the Apple reseller and repair depot down the road from me. (I'll no mention the name) Sells used Apple's all day long with a system on them and that's all, no disc's of any kind, so you're saying an Apple authorized reseller is going to get raided by the computer police? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
John - This would actually stand to reason. Let me flip the question around - All the G4s I see on eBay that come with Leopard. We know that Leopard came well after the G4, and someone put it on recently. If this were no problem, I could just buy up old Panther G4s and add the Leopard feature for resale. Apple not going after these resellers doesn't make it right. My prior question is only to understand where one draws the line. I suppose any time the Mac is sold without the OS discs, if there's an OS on it, it's not SLA ok. On Jul 17, 4:16 pm, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote: On Jul 17, 2010, at 11:53 AM, Dan wrote: At 11:34 AM -0700 7/17/2010, JoeTaxpayer wrote: When I buy a used Mac that contains an OS, but not the discs, seller is in violation, right? Correct. The seller should have included the original bundled software -- ALL the bundled software, not just the OS. Gee that's funny the Apple reseller and repair depot down the road from me. (I'll no mention the name) Sells used Apple's all day long with a system on them and that's all, no disc's of any kind, so you're saying an Apple authorized reseller is going to get raided by the computer police? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
is it illegal to put Mac OS X on unsupported machines? For example, If I tricked the OF to install Leopard on a G4 Sawtooth or tricked the OF to install tiger on a Bondi Blue iMac with no firewire, is that illegal? Note: I bought the legit stuff and used it on the machines. Sent from my Power Mac G4 Sawtooth -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
At 1:16 PM -0700 7/17/2010, John Carmonne wrote: When I buy a used Mac that contains an OS, but not the discs, seller is in violation, right? Correct. The seller should have included the original bundled software -- ALL the bundled software, not just the OS. Gee that's funny the Apple reseller and repair depot down the road from me. (I'll no mention the name) Sells used Apple's all day long with a system on them and that's all, no disc's of any kind, so you're saying an Apple authorized reseller is going to get raided by the computer police? Legally, yes they should include a copy of the media with the computer. And AFAIK that's required by the authorized reseller dealio. Does Apple actively pursue all this? No, not currently. And that does NOT make it acceptable to pirate. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
At 5:44 PM -0400 7/17/2010, Mark Sokolovsky wrote: is it illegal to put Mac OS X on unsupported machines? For example, If I tricked the OF to install Leopard on a G4 Sawtooth or tricked the OF to install tiger on a Bondi Blue iMac with no firewire, is that illegal? Note: I bought the legit stuff and used it on the machines. Apple's licensing is very specific - the OS is only for use on Apple-branded hardware. WRT hacking a ***RETAIL*** copy of the OS to run on an Apple-branded computer that it wouldn't normally be able to... Well, that's not specifically covered by the license, so it's OK to do from the license's POV. However, the DMCA makes it illegal to decode and hack copyrighted software - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
John Carmonne wrote: Hi All Recently someone posted the method of fixing machine specific install disk to work on any machine. I didn't save that post and now I need to fix an image to allow it to work on a machine other than the one it's intended for. Any body know how to do this? It seemed simple when I read it but now of coarse I can't remember. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP Is this what you are thinking of? The only difference in an upgrade disc and a full installer is that there is a CheckForOSX file that checks for a previous OS X version on the HD and blocks you if it isn't there. You need to remove this CheckForOSX file. Here are instructions: Here's the method for a Leopard upgrade disc, it should be almost identical on a Panther disc: http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2007/12/12791/ Here's the method for a Jaguar upgrade disc, so if the Leopard has changed something, this may be closer: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/181235/how-do-the-upgrade-cds-work/ The key is that you're removing the CheckForOSX and burning a new CD without it. Then you've got a full retail installer disc. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 16, 2010, at 5:16 AM, Dennis Myhand wrote: John Carmonne wrote: Hi All Recently someone posted the method of fixing machine specific install disk to work on any machine. I didn't save that post and now I need to fix an image to allow it to work on a machine other than the one it's intended for. Any body know how to do this? It seemed simple when I read it but now of coarse I can't remember. John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP Is this what you are thinking of? The only difference in an upgrade disc and a full installer is that there is a CheckForOSX file that checks for a previous OS X version on the HD and blocks you if it isn't there. You need to remove this CheckForOSX file. Here are instructions: Here's the method for a Leopard upgrade disc, it should be almost identical on a Panther disc: http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2007/12/12791/ Here's the method for a Jaguar upgrade disc, so if the Leopard has changed something, this may be closer: http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/181235/how-do-the-upgrade-cds-work/ The key is that you're removing the CheckForOSX and burning a new CD without it. Then you've got a full retail installer disc. This may do it and it surely is appreciated, a must have. What I'm referring to is a disk that comes with a particular machine and when I try to install it tells me it can't work on this machine I know the system is all the same but you're stuck with using it only on the machine it came with. I need to remove what ever it checks for. Like a helper program? John Carmonne Yorba Linda USA Sent from my MBP -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Change machine specific installer requirements
On Jul 16, 2010, at 6:48 AM, John Carmonne wrote: Recently someone posted the method of fixing machine specific install disk to work on any machine. I didn't save that post and now I need to fix an image to allow it to work on a machine other than the one it's intended for. Any body know how to do this? It seemed simple when I read it but now of coarse I can't remember. The method is slightly different than for modifying an Upgrade disc's CheckForOSX file. What you need is a modified OSInstall.dist file which has the script that checks for specific machines. This file has been modified in various ways, sometimes people add in the model of their Mac so that when the script identifies their Mac the test now matches correctly. Others have eliminated the test altogether so that there isn't any test at all. You can find instructions for modifying this file on Google. Often you can find a pre-modified file for download so that you can drop it in to replace the existing file. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
