Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-31 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:13 PM, diane wrote:

 When I have time I'll redo it.

 Any issues with saving a document as a Word doc so the majority of
 the population can open it? Basic bold, italics, tabs and bullets

For absolute safety, stick with the basic Postscript 1.0 fonts: Times,  
Helvetica, Symbol. These fonts are either present or have close  
analogs on any system that can read a word file; but even those can be  
problematic, since Times New Roman is slightly different from Times,  
and while Arial is closer, it's still not exactly Helvetica. For 95%  
of your correspondence it's just fine, but when neatly formatted  
tables start unformatting themselves, it can be a PITA to fix.  One  
table is nothing, but when 135 tables and 75 figures in a doctoral  
dissertation get screwed up, it can be a significant problem.

Moreover, if you're at all involved in publishing, this stuff can be  
more than catastrophic. I was involved with the production of a RPG  
book that was heavy on equations, produced in Word's Equation Editor.

Sadly, the authors had used programming notation for multiplication  
(*) instead of the standard mathematical notation (x).

The printer's rasterizing software decided to replicate every asterisk  
* with this: | . Division signs were equally messed up. Every long  
bar with a bunch of equations above it and a bunch below got turned  
into '/', which, unlike the multiplication snafu, was at least  
correct, if much harder to read.

The manuscript was sent to the printer as a Word doc.

This rendered the book pretty much useless, and due to artificially  
imposed constraints on the production, only the publisher (who was a  
know-nothing idiot, fraud and thief) ever looked at the galleys. Since  
he was mathematically illiterate, it went to press that way.  
Eventually the authors took to sending the original manuscript,  
converted to a PDF as the 'errata' for the book.

So, in my opinion anything fancier than plain text is precisely what  
Postscript, TeX and/or PDF as made for.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-31 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Aug 31, 2009, at 9:40 AM, John Niven wrote:

 I use M$ Office 2004 and am a huge fan of Excel. It is clear that  
 people who claim there are other equivalents have never used it's  
 full power.


Excel has long been the best of the suite; but you clearly haven't  
'enjoyed' the 'improvements' MS has made in Office 2007/2008. roll  
eyes I've had users who got 2007 call me and demand that I remove  
this crap from their computer and give them the 'real' Office back.

As for power, well, Excel still hasn't caught up to Wingz. That was so  
far ahead of it's time. It became Claris' standalone spreadsheet  
Resolve (nothing to do with the crap that was Works). There's bits of  
it's heritage visible in Numbers now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informix_Wingz

Most of the power of Excel comes from having used it for a long time,  
not because it's so inherently powerful.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-31 Thread John Niven


 As for power, well, Excel still hasn't caught up to Wingz.

Actually a quick scan of this reference indicates that most of the claimed 
advantages over Excel have been fixed, except the spread sheet size limitations.

 Most of the power of Excel comes from having used it for a
 long time, not because it's so inherently powerful.

But I'm talking about those of us who have actually activated the add ins 
that don't come in the standard accountant install :-P

Things that I use (pivot tables, filters, statistical functions etc.) are 
clearly not commonly used spread sheet tools.

I've just got the 2008 Office suite at home through my companies work at home 
deal ($25 :-). I haven't tried it yet. Sounds like a treat :-(

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-31 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Aug 31, 2009, at 12:09 PM, John Niven wrote:


 Things that I use (pivot tables, filters, statistical functions  
 etc.) are clearly not commonly used spread sheet tools.

Pivot tables, filters and statistics are also in Open Office, just not  
in the fashion you're accustomed to. It takes a bit to grok OO's  
database access stuff, since it's quite different from Excel's.

Fortunately the Mac version of the latest Office isn't nearly as ^# 
%@^# up as the Windows version is, but they did stuff to it ... hope  
none of your advanced functions need VBA, because they just ripped  
that sucker right out. No one in a real business uses Macs, doncha know.

That broke a hell of lot of third party add-in stuff.

Which, of course, is MS'es aim: the more difficult they can make it to  
work with Mac users (and no matter WHAT, it's ALWAYS the Mac's fault!)  
they more they 'win'.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs



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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-30 Thread Mac User #330250

Hello OpenOffice.org lovers!

While OpenOffice.org 3.0+ is now running native on Mac OS X (finally using 
Aqua instead of X11) it will definitely leave PPC behind.

This is because Apple itself is leaving PPC behind. That is just the way 
things go.

In the Windows world it is the same with Microsoft leaving DOS-based Windows 
versions behind (Windows 95-Me). I had a few friends complaining that 
nowerdays not one newer program is running on their Windows 98SE - the best 
Windows as one of them always claimed.


OpenOffice is still being compiled for PowerPC. Shouldn't be a problem for any 
developer to build such a package for PPC users, even if Sun (or Oracle?) 
ever decided not to release an official PPC build.
(One of the greated advantages of open source!!!)

But _here_ is where the leaving behind starts:
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/pdfimport


Such a great feature - being able to import a PDF into OpenOffice Draw and 
changing a typo or modifying a sentence or a picture or whatever. It's closed 
source, so there won't be a PPC port for that. Sun released it for x86 only.


Sorry, G3/G4/G5 users. We are definitely being left behind...


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice
Date:Sonntag, 30. August 2009N
From:Nestamicky nestami...@gmail.com
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com

 On 8/29/09 12:53 PM, diane wrote:
  Bruce rocks

 Like a rock band he rocks! I'm downloading now myself, but based on
 Diane's experience, I'd pitch in and say, yes, Bruce is a rocking,
 rocking rocker. Thanks Bruce, I thought OO left us PPC behind until now.
 Thanks!

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-30 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Aug 30, 2009, at 2:25 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

 Such a great feature - being able to import a PDF into OpenOffice  
 Draw and
 changing a typo or modifying a sentence or a picture or whatever.  
 It's closed
 source, so there won't be a PPC port for that. Sun released it for  
 x86 only.

That page explicitly lists the license as 'Open Source' and has a link  
to the source code.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai,  PhD


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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-30 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Aug 30, 2009, at 8:41 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote:

 Oups. Your right.
 So there might be a chance to find a PowerPC port at last.



Yeah, but looking over the list of what it doesn't do, and reading  
through the comments it seems pretty alpha-ish in nature.

This s somethig that's always driven me nuts...PDF is an open  
standard, OSX uses it as a system file type, so WHY doesn't TextEdit  
or Preview allow editing of PDF's? You can cut and paste out of them,  
so clearly the content is available to the system. Why is it that no  
one has a cheap PDF editor?

-- 
Bruce Johnson

Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai,  PhD


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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread Nestamicky
On 8/28/09 10:52 PM, di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote:
 Something that I can use simple keystrokes for basic formatting. 
Install NeoOffice. When you need to use it, start it and go make coffee. 
Once it's up, it's not that bad.

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread diane
At 8:14 AM -0600 8/29/09, Nestamicky wrote:
On 8/28/09 10:52 PM, 
mailto:di...@mathermotorsports.comdi...@mathermotorsports.com 
wrote:

Something that I can use simple keystrokes for basic formatting.

Install NeoOffice. When you need to use it, start it and go make 
coffee. Once it's up, it's not that bad.


That's what I had. I updated it and am using it again. Unfortunately 
I don't drink coffee, but I can clean my desk.

Diane
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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread Nestamicky
On 8/29/09 8:31 AM, diane wrote:
 Unfortunately I don't drink coffee, but I can clean my desk.
I think you meant, fortunately. I check my e-Mails.

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread Bill Connelly


On Aug 29, 2009, at 10:31 AM, diane wrote:

 At 8:14 AM -0600 8/29/09, Nestamicky wrote:
 On 8/28/09 10:52 PM, di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote:
 Something that I can use simple keystrokes for basic formatting.
 Install NeoOffice. When you need to use it, start it and go make  
 coffee. Once it's up, it's not that bad.


 That's what I had. I updated it and am using it again. Unfortunately  
 I don't drink coffee, but I can clean my desk.

 Diane

One of the recent updates to NeoOffice tried to correct the response  
time of the Menu items. Still think it needs work ...

I use it for a Spreadsheet, and am pretty satisfied.

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread diane

At 8:35 AM -0600 8/29/09, Nestamicky wrote:
On 8/29/09 8:31 AM, diane wrote:

Unfortunately I don't drink coffee, but I can clean my desk.

I think you meant, fortunately. I check my e-Mails.


Guess it depends on how you look at it. It is a fortunately, I don't 
need a habit that costs money these days.  :)

Diane

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread diane

It's official - Bruce rocks.  :)  Installed and running. Still didn't 
like some of the bullets in my old Word resume (even after installing 
wingdings.ttf) but the RTF version imports and I'm good to go.

Thanks again,

Diane

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread Charles Lenington

diane wrote:
 At 8:14 AM -0600 8/29/09, Nestamicky wrote:
 On 8/28/09 10:52 PM, di...@mathermotorsports.com 
 mailto:di...@mathermotorsports.com wrote:
 Something that I can use simple keystrokes for basic formatting.
 Install NeoOffice. When you need to use it, start it and go make 
 coffee. Once it's up, it's not that bad.


 That's what I had. I updated it and am using it again. Unfortunately I 
 don't drink coffee, but I can clean my desk.

 Diane

If u run out of desks to clean I have 5 that need cleaning. huge  :  )

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread Bruce Johnson


On Aug 29, 2009, at 11:53 AM, diane wrote:

  Still didn't
 like some of the bullets in my old Word resume (even after installing
 wingdings.ttf) but the RTF version imports and I'm good to go.

I've had troubles with WORD not liking Word bullets, so that's not  
really a surprise :-)

-- 
Bruce Johnson

Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai,  PhD


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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-29 Thread Nestamicky
On 8/29/09 12:53 PM, diane wrote:
 Bruce rocks
Like a rock band he rocks! I'm downloading now myself, but based on 
Diane's experience, I'd pitch in and say, yes, Bruce is a rocking, 
rocking rocker. Thanks Bruce, I thought OO left us PPC behind until now. 
Thanks!

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-11 Thread Dana Collins




On 8/10/09 2:25 PM, flo...@gmail.com of flo...@gmail.com sent

 
 If you need features, get OpenOffice 3; fully Mac-native and fast.
 
 NeoOffice was always slow and buggy. Nevermind that. Feature-wise, it
 seems like a buggy, slow AW6.
 
 I am a huge AppleWorks fan...but even that's overkill for me. I've
 managed to finish a book using Google Docs shared with my editor.
 Before that, I used TextEdit (you'd be surprised what a great SIMPLE
 editor it is when you go throught the prefs and set it how you want
 it.
 
 I've heard great things about ThinkFree Office. As i've heard, picture
 MS Office with all the online features of Google Docs, without the
 complexity of the Windows Live! Office part of Office for Windows.
 
 Sounds Complex? I know.
 
 So, depending on features, either TextEdit or OO3. AW6 dates back to
 '99 and Neo is buggy and slow. Good luck!
 
Hello Flo.
Nice overview and annotation. Thanks!
Dana



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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-10 Thread flo...@gmail.com

If you need features, get OpenOffice 3; fully Mac-native and fast.

NeoOffice was always slow and buggy. Nevermind that. Feature-wise, it
seems like a buggy, slow AW6.

I am a huge AppleWorks fan...but even that's overkill for me. I've
managed to finish a book using Google Docs shared with my editor.
Before that, I used TextEdit (you'd be surprised what a great SIMPLE
editor it is when you go throught the prefs and set it how you want
it.

I've heard great things about ThinkFree Office. As i've heard, picture
MS Office with all the online features of Google Docs, without the
complexity of the Windows Live! Office part of Office for Windows.

Sounds Complex? I know.

So, depending on features, either TextEdit or OO3. AW6 dates back to
'99 and Neo is buggy and slow. Good luck!

On Aug 8, 11:51 pm, Dana Collins dlcatft...@verizon.net wrote:
 Hi Dan,
 Thank you for the response. You kind of described me, lover of
 AppleWorks, not terribly attached to Pages (though my daughter thinks
 it's great) - I dread the day when AppleWorks is completely unusable.
 Thanks again,
 Dana

 On Aug 8, 2:13 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote:

  At 10:56 AM -0700 8/8/2009, Dana Collins wrote:

  how do you folks feel about NeoOffice vs. Open Office (either being
  used as a substitute for MS Office)?  Any pros/cons? Preference of
  one over the other? I am interested in hearing what you have to say.

  I prefer NeoOffice, because of its mac-native interface.  I put it on
  all my client's machines, about two years ago.  They use it daily
  these days and have dumped MS Office.  Can't seem to get anyone
  excited over Pages or Numbers...

  On older/slower Macs, I still prefer AppleWorks.

  HTH,
  - Dan.
  --
  - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-08 Thread Dan

At 10:56 AM -0700 8/8/2009, Dana Collins wrote:
how do you folks feel about NeoOffice vs. Open Office (either being 
used as a substitute for MS Office)?  Any pros/cons? Preference of 
one over the other? I am interested in hearing what you have to say.

I prefer NeoOffice, because of its mac-native interface.  I put it on 
all my client's machines, about two years ago.  They use it daily 
these days and have dumped MS Office.  Can't seem to get anyone 
excited over Pages or Numbers...

On older/slower Macs, I still prefer AppleWorks.

HTH,
- Dan.
-- 
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-08 Thread Bob Whiton


My question: how do you folks feel about NeoOffice vs. Open Office
(either being used as a substitute for MS Office)?

I used NeoOffice until a Mac native version of  OpenOffice (v3.0) 
came out.  I found OpenOffice to be much faster than NeoOffice, with 
a similar interface, so I've switched.  For the basics, much 
preferable to shelling out for MS Office.

Bob

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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-08 Thread Dana Collins




On 8/8/09 5:17 PM, Bob Whiton of m...@rswhiton.com sent

 
 
 My question: how do you folks feel about NeoOffice vs. Open Office
 (either being used as a substitute for MS Office)?
 
 I used NeoOffice until a Mac native version of  OpenOffice (v3.0)
 came out.  I found OpenOffice to be much faster than NeoOffice, with
 a similar interface, so I've switched.  For the basics, much
 preferable to shelling out for MS Office.
 
 Bob

Thanks, Bob, for the response - I suspected as such in my opinion; it was
nice to receive some confirmation.
Thanks again,
Dana



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Re: Open Office vs. NeoOffice

2009-08-08 Thread Dana Collins

Hi Dan,
Thank you for the response. You kind of described me, lover of
AppleWorks, not terribly attached to Pages (though my daughter thinks
it's great) - I dread the day when AppleWorks is completely unusable.
Thanks again,
Dana

On Aug 8, 2:13 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote:
 At 10:56 AM -0700 8/8/2009, Dana Collins wrote:

 how do you folks feel about NeoOffice vs. Open Office (either being
 used as a substitute for MS Office)?  Any pros/cons? Preference of
 one over the other? I am interested in hearing what you have to say.

 I prefer NeoOffice, because of its mac-native interface.  I put it on
 all my client's machines, about two years ago.  They use it daily
 these days and have dumped MS Office.  Can't seem to get anyone
 excited over Pages or Numbers...

 On older/slower Macs, I still prefer AppleWorks.

 HTH,
 - Dan.
 --
 - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.
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