Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
When you hear a punch, doesn't that indicate that it has already hit the mark, in which case you're too late to defend against it? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one expended the effort. As Anacreon was a turn-based game, I could take the time to find it, incorporate it into my understanding of the game state and make the complex decisions about production, fleet deployment and even battle tactics that the game required. The game rewarded me with exactly the experience a sighted player would have, though I had to put literally tens of hours in just to figure out the interface, let alone the game strategy. I'm unconvinced that I would ever get that level of feedback, even with substantial effort from a mainstream game of any sort. Without that feedback, I am at best operating at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps there are patterns that could bring me victory, there are patterns in say, Tank commander that lead to a successful conquest of the levels, but the fact is that I could learn those patterns by trial and error with full game feedback, rather than simply trying something, learning it didn't work and trying something else. I can diagnose *why* something didn't work. So, if I am wrong about that, then I may be interested in exploring some more mainstream gaming options. But frankly, it's a very high bar, and one I have no interest in compromising about. Life is too short to play a game at a disadvantage, no matter how wonderful the game might be. Or at least that is my priority. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
Nope. Because there's two sounds. There's one for the sound of the blow moving, and then there's the sound when it connects. Two different things, but the point of case then is to stay out of punching range. Prevent it from happening in the first place. If the opponent is jumping towards you, which means you hear the sound for a jump, odds are he's going to try an overhead kick. So block that overhead and while he's still recovering hit him with a few jabs or a special move. It's that kind of thing that blind players have to rely on... we can't see them jumping in, so we have to listen just that little degree more. At 11:22 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: When you hear a punch, doesn't that indicate that it has already hit the mark, in which case you're too late to defend against it? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one expended the effort. As Anacreon was a turn-based game, I could take the time to find it, incorporate it into my understanding of the game state and make the complex decisions about production, fleet deployment and even battle tactics that the game required. The game rewarded me with exactly the experience a sighted player would have, though I had to put literally tens of hours in just to figure out the interface, let alone the game strategy. I'm unconvinced that I would ever get that level of feedback, even with substantial effort from a mainstream game of any sort. Without that feedback, I am at best operating at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps there are patterns that could bring me victory, there are patterns in say, Tank commander that lead to a successful conquest of the levels, but the fact is that I could learn those patterns by trial and error with full game feedback, rather than simply trying something, learning it didn't work and trying something else. I can diagnose *why* something didn't work. So, if I am wrong about that, then I may be interested in exploring some more mainstream gaming options. But frankly, it's a very high bar, and one I have no interest in compromising about. Life is too short to play a game at a disadvantage, no matter how wonderful the game might be. Or at least that is my priority. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
It does indeed mean that the punch has already landed, but that'd be the same in an accessible version of the same game, or even in real life would it not? Given that you've missed the chance to defend by that point, it'd be time to either retreat or counter, and being able to tell which attacks your opponent is launching, how close they'd need to be to launch those attacks, the speed and individual fighting styles of the characters in the game and gamers holding the controllers are all contributing factors. Luckily, footsteps, dashes, specials and the like often have sound cues associated with them nowadays, so a gamer who's done their homework can often defend before hearing that punch land, which was what you were asking I think. True, you need quick reactions, but no quicker than the sighted person who's just jumped back to avoid your attack or blocked your combo. They didn't see that coming any sooner than you would've heard it if the roles were reversed. It hasn't always been the case, but in this particular genre, it's very possible now for blind people to be aware of their surroundings and their opponents actions, so it's no longer about who attacks hardest. I'm not knocking your taste in games at all, if beat 'em ups aren't your thing then that's one less person who's waiting in line to beat me lol. As far as actual mastery of the in-game action goes though, it's possible to be good at them now as a blind gamer, that's what I'm getting at. On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: When you hear a punch, doesn't that indicate that it has already hit the mark, in which case you're too late to defend against it? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one expended the effort. As Anacreon was a turn-based game, I could take the time to find it, incorporate it into my understanding of the game state and make the complex decisions about production, fleet deployment and even battle tactics that the game required. The game rewarded me with exactly the experience a sighted player would have, though I had to put literally tens of hours in just to figure out the interface, let alone the game strategy. I'm unconvinced that I would ever get that level of feedback, even with substantial effort from a mainstream game of any sort. Without that feedback, I am at best operating at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps there are patterns that could bring me victory, there are patterns in say, Tank commander that lead to a successful conquest of the levels, but the fact is that I could learn
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
You explained it in a minute whereas I would've probably taken 5 minutes to write that out... I can do it, but I can't explain it that well. Thanks Scott. This is precisely what we have to be aware of... and would you believe it? This helps us to be aware in every day life as well. I'm an aspiring martial artist, and although my martial art is mainly solo practice... there are partnered forms in which blows are exchanged and countered. I find myself able to block more precisely and accurately because of my experience with fighting games... and I can predict the blow quite accurately. The partnered forms are pre-arranged, so it is one strike for one block. However when the strike happens is not determined... and you cannot block before the cut actually begins. For anyone who's wondering what kind of insane art this seems to sound like... I practice iaido, which is a japanese sword art. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Scott Chesworth scottcheswo...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 8:19 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. It does indeed mean that the punch has already landed, but that'd be the same in an accessible version of the same game, or even in real life would it not? Given that you've missed the chance to defend by that point, it'd be time to either retreat or counter, and being able to tell which attacks your opponent is launching, how close they'd need to be to launch those attacks, the speed and individual fighting styles of the characters in the game and gamers holding the controllers are all contributing factors. Luckily, footsteps, dashes, specials and the like often have sound cues associated with them nowadays, so a gamer who's done their homework can often defend before hearing that punch land, which was what you were asking I think. True, you need quick reactions, but no quicker than the sighted person who's just jumped back to avoid your attack or blocked your combo. They didn't see that coming any sooner than you would've heard it if the roles were reversed. It hasn't always been the case, but in this particular genre, it's very possible now for blind people to be aware of their surroundings and their opponents actions, so it's no longer about who attacks hardest. I'm not knocking your taste in games at all, if beat 'em ups aren't your thing then that's one less person who's waiting in line to beat me lol. As far as actual mastery of the in-game action goes though, it's possible to be good at them now as a blind gamer, that's what I'm getting at. On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: When you hear a punch, doesn't that indicate that it has already hit the mark, in which case you're too late to defend against it? --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Clement Chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2011 5:34 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
You could do it. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 7:08 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games. Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
Fair point, Thomas, but the thing is if the fight is being commentated as it goes on, it can be described fairly. And Yohandy if you want to go online and do this I'm up for it. So long as you have a way to record one of the ps3s and both our voices at the same time, I'm good to go. Just let me know when. Otherwise, for those who are interested, I can record me in training mode, messing around with moves and showing things. At 11:08 AM 09/02/2011, you wrote: Hi Charles, That's kind of hard to do. For one thing the kinds of fighting games Yohandy, Clement, etc are talking about are extremely fast pased gqames. We are talking somewhere between 50 to 60 frames per second. It can be so fast that there isn't time to breath let alone talk between moves. So starting and stopping in the middle of a complex combat sequence isn't practical. The other thing you said is to slow it down so a person can hear the moves being performed. Again this isn't really possible. There is no speed control per say on these things. They are set to an extremely high frame rate to make them challenging and you have to think and act extremely fast. So I'm not sure of how to demonstrate what people are talking about in a way that is practical. I suppose one way would be to record it, chop up the recording, and then insert naration and/or comments when and where possible. However, in order to get through one minute of fighting it would have to be stopped several times just to explain everything. Hope this makes a little more sense. Cheers! On 2/9/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I would like, and it might be a big help to others who haven't tried this sort of approach, to hear a recording of blind person playing such games, slowed down to a point to where you can hear the audible cues, have them explained during a short pause, then have the action continue. Sort of like descriptive narration at a slow pace, then hear the same sequence replayed at normal speed to hear the pace. The ideas are interesting even if it isn't my type of game. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one expended the effort. As Anacreon was a turn-based game, I could take the time to find it, incorporate it into my understanding of the game state and make the complex decisions about production, fleet deployment and even battle tactics that the game required. The game rewarded me with exactly the experience a sighted player would have, though I had to put literally tens of hours in just to figure out the interface, let alone the game strategy. I'm unconvinced that I would ever get that level of feedback, even with substantial effort from a mainstream game of any sort. Without that feedback, I am at best operating at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps there are patterns that could bring me victory, there are patterns in say, Tank commander that lead to a successful conquest of the levels, but the fact is that I could learn those patterns by trial and error with full game feedback, rather than simply trying something, learning it didn't work and trying something else. I can diagnose *why* something didn't work. So, if I am wrong about that, then I may be interested in exploring some more mainstream gaming options. But frankly, it's a very high bar, and one I have no interest in compromising about. Life is too short to play a game at a disadvantage, no matter how wonderful the game might be. Or at least that is my priority. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
Well said, Christopher... and I hear what you are saying completely. I can explain it in some detail, but I'll answer more questions next week when I have a new game to show, so I can walk people through things as I explore for the first time. In fighting games on this generation of consoles, there are sounds for everything. A punch sounds different than a kick, a block sounds different from a successful hit. Dashing has sounds, and so does jumping. There are sounds for when a character uses a special attack such as a projectile versus a straight hit, and using the sound of the projectile's launch and impact you can gage how far away from the screen you are or your opponent is. Since fighting games are rarely about reloading weapons, you can put that worry aside. The trick in a fighting game is to learn combos and moves, but that requires no more effort than any sighted person. If you seriously are interested in knowing more, feel free to write me offlist. I would be glad to help in any way I can... I wanted to keep this description short. But as I said, I'll do more showing with audio when I get my hands on Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 next week. At 02:54 PM 08/02/2011, you wrote: Ok, I would like to understand something. I have heard that there is a lot of complexity in the fighting games, planning strategies and the like. I accept that this is true. Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. So, how, as I said with no vision, do I get this input in order to make the tactical decisions that make the games worth playing? Is there enough information conveyed by sound to provide me with this state vector? You see, this isn't a matter of being unwilling to put in effort, or memorize a bunch of menu sequences. I figured out how to play Anacreon, a complex space conquest game with a lot of things that defeat screen readers without a hell of a lot of effort, because the information was in fact there if one expended the effort. As Anacreon was a turn-based game, I could take the time to find it, incorporate it into my understanding of the game state and make the complex decisions about production, fleet deployment and even battle tactics that the game required. The game rewarded me with exactly the experience a sighted player would have, though I had to put literally tens of hours in just to figure out the interface, let alone the game strategy. I'm unconvinced that I would ever get that level of feedback, even with substantial effort from a mainstream game of any sort. Without that feedback, I am at best operating at a severe disadvantage. Perhaps there are patterns that could bring me victory, there are patterns in say, Tank commander that lead to a successful conquest of the levels, but the fact is that I could learn those patterns by trial and error with full game feedback, rather than simply trying something, learning it didn't work and trying something else. I can diagnose *why* something didn't work. So, if I am wrong about that, then I may be interested in exploring some more mainstream gaming options. But frankly, it's a very high bar, and one I have no interest in compromising about. Life is too short to play a game at a disadvantage, no matter how wonderful the game might be. Or at least that is my priority. Chris Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
On Tue, Feb 08, 2011 at 02:54:45PM -0800, Christopher Bartlett wrote: Now, I have no vision. Strategy planning involves reacting not only to my opponent, but to the environment, my current life level and weapon load (where appropriate) my opponent's condition, and any time-based factors. Yeah, it's not very tactical to still be swinging punches when your opponent is already down on the ground Michael -- Linux User: 177869 # Powered By: Intel # http://rivensight.dyndns.org Postings Copyrighted 2010-2011 by: Michael Ferranti --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] A question for Clement and Yohandy re: play value of mainstream fighting games.
If you're worried about throwing out missed punches when your opponent is on the ground... listen to the sound of them falling, and wait for them to get up again. There are sounds for that, too... --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
