Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Can I ask what part of Australia you're from? I'm from Melbourne. At 03:19 PM 4/25/2013, you wrote: no. pritty much all CPU's these days, are 64 bit. whether they be dual core, quad core, or 8 core systems. 64 bit OS's doesn't require quad core, at all. regards: Dallas On 25/04/2013, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: Oh yeah, I can imagine. This is only a dual core processor, though. Wouldn't I need a quad core to take full advantage of a 64 bit system? Either way, I can imagine how much faster it would be. Not only that, but it would take much longer for Firefox to eat up all my ram, and i wouldn't have to end the process in task manager every 20 minutes. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi. Internet activation is certainly my favourite security method, and one I rather like. Another great advantage is that getting unlock codes is easy. As I said with dolphin, you get three registrations initially, then get a new one in the next six months. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Desiri. this might be true as per your example of someone losing their site and needing to come to terms with pricing of audiogames, however in the card, board game case I don't think that is as much a reason for pirates, since what most people who are! inclined to buy games do if a game is too overpriced and there is a cheaper version elsewhere is simply get the cheaper one. I can think of several occasions when, writing the db I've found a commercial game and thought the price too high for what the game was *cough azabat *cough, but I'm not convinced that that causes piracy so much as people just looking elsewhere. However I do also agree on pricing. A great example here is pontes backgammon. As I've said before in terms of game design I'm deeply impresssed with the game, the online play, the many features, the board review options etc, however there is a limited amount I am prepared to pay for a board game, even one so well designed. at $9 however, Manu got the price just right, which is at least a discouragement for pirates. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
How about this scenario: With no help from Vocational Rehabilitation staff, I find a job in which computer access is required. Now, I need JAWS, and the job starts in 2 weeks! I cannot buy the program. Do I temporarily pirate and buy it after a few paychecks? The key word is temporarily. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games Hi Dark, Exactly. That's why I wanted to make it clear that there are many reasons why people pirate software. Yes, some blind people have an entitlement attitude, but certainly not everyone. Sometimes if the circumstances were different it might change some people's minds about pirating the software. Take for example the issue of how much a game costs. A lot of blind people are on government benefits and may think that paying $30 for a certain game is too high. Now, if that developer drops the price to $20 for the Christmas season it might encourage a few people to buy a legal copy because he game is now more affordable than it was before. They might not be willing to pay $30 but might be willing to pay $20 on that title. The point being once a developer finds out the reasons behind the piracy he or she can change some of the circumstances for the piracy and encourage some of those would be pirates into buying copies legally. Think the software is too high here is a discount for this month only. Can't buy the software because the exchange rates are too high lets setup a special one time sale at a reduced price that is affordable. Can't legally buy the software because you live in Iran or some place like that. Let's look at our options and see if there is a legal way to buy, sell, or trade for that software. Bottom line, piracy has a cause and if we can remove that cause, whatever it may be, then both parties will be satisfied. Cheers! On 4/24/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. this was exactly my point. if a person is going to pirate something they are going to pirate it anyway, where as the reverse is true. i particularly like your idea of developers talking to customers in countries like Iran, since that is something which has come up before, indeed I can think of an occasion jason Alan did this on the entombed list and a way around was worked out. This is why I myself choose to pay for software and audio from indi developers because! I want to support them, even if I could get pirated versions elsewhere. this also tracks into what I was saying about the community, and an attitude I've noticed among some people to tar everyone with the same brush and assume that just because some dishonest git thinks it's okay to pirate software from indi developers, and justifies this because they're living on government bennifits and can't be arsed to save money, doesn't mean everyone does or that that is a prevailing attitude in the vi gaming community. Any community is made up of individuals, and naturally some will be good, some bad, but one truth that studdying ethics has taught me is that all generalizations are wrong :d. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Charles, If you had asked that question a few years ago you might have been able to make a case of it. As it is these days nobody needs Jaws for their job. There are free and low cost alternatives such as the NVDA screen reader which is every bit as good as Jaws, offers scripting ability, and supports many of the same apps. At least the common ones like MS Office, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Outlook Express, etc. So if someone were in a scenario such as you describe where they got a job with a company operating a computer and needed a decent screen reader I'd highly recommend they install and use NVDA for the time being. Then, if they really wanted Jaws they could save up for it and pay the outrageous price for it. However, I do take your point though. If it weren't for vocational rehab centers buying Jaws, Openbook, Magic, etc people would likely be pirating them left and right because the cost to own and use is beyond anything a blind student or newly employed blind employee could pay. If it weren't for open source applications like NVDA and of course the GNU Linux platform one could probably make a pretty good case for justifying piracy of access technology. However, open source alternatives are quickly catching up with their commercial counterparts and we may see a shift to low cost access software in the not too distant future. Cheers! On 4/25/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: How about this scenario: With no help from Vocational Rehabilitation staff, I find a job in which computer access is required. Now, I need JAWS, and the job starts in 2 weeks! I cannot buy the program. Do I temporarily pirate and buy it after a few paychecks? The key word is temporarily. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
well in a way much that its a pain that all the agencys want you to use expensive jaws and everyone that uses the agency wants jaws for everyone because its what you use in a job, if we didn't have overly expensive software ever we wouldn't need opensource and nvda would not exist. At 09:19 PM 4/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Charles, If you had asked that question a few years ago you might have been able to make a case of it. As it is these days nobody needs Jaws for their job. There are free and low cost alternatives such as the NVDA screen reader which is every bit as good as Jaws, offers scripting ability, and supports many of the same apps. At least the common ones like MS Office, Internet Explorer, Firefox, Outlook Express, etc. So if someone were in a scenario such as you describe where they got a job with a company operating a computer and needed a decent screen reader I'd highly recommend they install and use NVDA for the time being. Then, if they really wanted Jaws they could save up for it and pay the outrageous price for it. However, I do take your point though. If it weren't for vocational rehab centers buying Jaws, Openbook, Magic, etc people would likely be pirating them left and right because the cost to own and use is beyond anything a blind student or newly employed blind employee could pay. If it weren't for open source applications like NVDA and of course the GNU Linux platform one could probably make a pretty good case for justifying piracy of access technology. However, open source alternatives are quickly catching up with their commercial counterparts and we may see a shift to low cost access software in the not too distant future. Cheers! On 4/25/13, Charles Rivard wee1s...@fidnet.com wrote: How about this scenario: With no help from Vocational Rehabilitation staff, I find a job in which computer access is required. Now, I need JAWS, and the job starts in 2 weeks! I cannot buy the program. Do I temporarily pirate and buy it after a few paychecks? The key word is temporarily. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
It really don't matter. You have to go with jaws and someone that will buy it. The main reason why is the computer you are using is not yours. Most companies will not let you use open source software, and will only let you use software made buy another company. Some companies won't even let you upgrade the software after they let you use it. So your screwed unless you have that org or the money to get software and able to convince them to use it. At 05:04 AM 4/25/2013, you wrote: How about this scenario: With no help from Vocational Rehabilitation staff, I find a job in which computer access is required. Now, I need JAWS, and the job starts in 2 weeks! I cannot buy the program. Do I temporarily pirate and buy it after a few paychecks? The key word is temporarily. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games Hi Dark, Exactly. That's why I wanted to make it clear that there are many reasons why people pirate software. Yes, some blind people have an entitlement attitude, but certainly not everyone. Sometimes if the circumstances were different it might change some people's minds about pirating the software. Take for example the issue of how much a game costs. A lot of blind people are on government benefits and may think that paying $30 for a certain game is too high. Now, if that developer drops the price to $20 for the Christmas season it might encourage a few people to buy a legal copy because he game is now more affordable than it was before. They might not be willing to pay $30 but might be willing to pay $20 on that title. The point being once a developer finds out the reasons behind the piracy he or she can change some of the circumstances for the piracy and encourage some of those would be pirates into buying copies legally. Think the software is too high here is a discount for this month only. Can't buy the software because the exchange rates are too high lets setup a special one time sale at a reduced price that is affordable. Can't legally buy the software because you live in Iran or some place like that. Let's look at our options and see if there is a legal way to buy, sell, or trade for that software. Bottom line, piracy has a cause and if we can remove that cause, whatever it may be, then both parties will be satisfied. Cheers! On 4/24/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. this was exactly my point. if a person is going to pirate something they are going to pirate it anyway, where as the reverse is true. i particularly like your idea of developers talking to customers in countries like Iran, since that is something which has come up before, indeed I can think of an occasion jason Alan did this on the entombed list and a way around was worked out. This is why I myself choose to pay for software and audio from indi developers because! I want to support them, even if I could get pirated versions elsewhere. this also tracks into what I was saying about the community, and an attitude I've noticed among some people to tar everyone with the same brush and assume that just because some dishonest git thinks it's okay to pirate software from indi developers, and justifies this because they're living on government bennifits and can't be arsed to save money, doesn't mean everyone does or that that is a prevailing attitude in the vi gaming community. Any community is made up of individuals, and naturally some will be good, some bad, but one truth that studdying ethics has taught me is that all generalizations are wrong :d. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Shaun, Oh, I wouldn't go that far to say we wouldn't need open source and NVDA wouldn't exist if the cost of Jaws, Window-Eyes, etc were less expensive because there are different goals being supplied by each model of software distribution. With Jaws and Window-Eyes even if they were $200 instead of $1000 there would still be commercial restrictions on the software such as you can only install it on no more than three PCs which some people like myself would find too restrictive. NVDA is not only free in terms of money, but there is no restriction on how many PCs it can be installed on at one time which is obviously better for someone like myself who currently has five computers in his household shared among my wife, son, and I. Since I want to walk up to any of them press a command and have instant speech something like Jaws is just too restrictive and doesn't give me enough licenses for my needs and I would have to pay for more licenses which I don't have to do since NVDA supplies my needs. As for open source in general I think the same argument can be made. While my son's laptop and my newer laptop came with Windows 7 my old desktop was running Windows Vista and my old laptop was running Vista as well. Rather than upgrade them to Windows 7 I chose to put Ubuntu Linux on them and that has saved us money since we don't need five separate licenses for Windows 7. Ubuntu 12.04 is quite accessible with Orca and since I am not paying for Firefox, LibreOffice, and a majority of the other software I am using on Linux it is a very affordable and economic option for someone with a very tight budget. While it is true if commercial software wasn't overly expensive I would certainly be more willing to pay for it, but cost is actually half the story here. There are things a person can do with open source that can't be done with commercial software if a person is inclined to do so. One of them is to take the source code for a program, modify it, and relese the changes back into the community. For example, on Linux there is a free game called Vectoroids. Its open source, and is a decent clone of the Asteroids game for Atari. If I wanted to I could grab the source code for the game, update it, add TTS support and other accessibility features and release my changes to the game back to the open source community just like that. No special licensing, no arguing over who did what, no fighting with big companies over adding accessibility, etc because the GPL is all about mutual cooperation between developers. Accessibility is an area where we have a foot in the door with open source because no one can deny us the right to modify the code if it is under the GPL or LGPL. If a corporation like Nintendo, Sony, EA Games, releases a game under a commercial license if you ask them to add access they can tell you to stick your suggestion where the sun doesn't shine. GPL software is much more user friendly. If you want to add access to an open source game like Flight Gear, Freeciv, Lin City, etc you are welcome to do it yourself. No one is going to complain provided the original author gets credit for writing his portion of the game and you release your modifications as open source. So I would argue that there is sometimes a need for open source. Cheers! On 4/25/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well in a way much that its a pain that all the agencys want you to use expensive jaws and everyone that uses the agency wants jaws for everyone because its what you use in a job, if we didn't have overly expensive software ever we wouldn't need opensource and nvda would not exist. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
You don't evenhave that restriction with WIndow-Eyes, atleast according to the staff I've spokenn with at GW. I also like the fact that you don't necessarily have! to close WE to run audio games. There've been occasions when I forgot to close WE before loading, sa ALien Outback or pipe, only to discover the truth after I closed the game, all because WE doesn't often interfere with te game's operation the way the Shark does. The problemI can see wit using NVDA onte job would be because it may not work wit whatever software the business uses. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:32 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games Hi Shaun, Oh, I wouldn't go that far to say we wouldn't need open source and NVDA wouldn't exist if the cost of Jaws, Window-Eyes, etc were less expensive because there are different goals being supplied by each model of software distribution. With Jaws and Window-Eyes even if they were $200 instead of $1000 there would still be commercial restrictions on the software such as you can only install it on no more than three PCs which some people like myself would find too restrictive. NVDA is not only free in terms of money, but there is no restriction on how many PCs it can be installed on at one time which is obviously better for someone like myself who currently has five computers in his household shared among my wife, son, and I. Since I want to walk up to any of them press a command and have instant speech something like Jaws is just too restrictive and doesn't give me enough licenses for my needs and I would have to pay for more licenses which I don't have to do since NVDA supplies my needs. As for open source in general I think the same argument can be made. While my son's laptop and my newer laptop came with Windows 7 my old desktop was running Windows Vista and my old laptop was running Vista as well. Rather than upgrade them to Windows 7 I chose to put Ubuntu Linux on them and that has saved us money since we don't need five separate licenses for Windows 7. Ubuntu 12.04 is quite accessible with Orca and since I am not paying for Firefox, LibreOffice, and a majority of the other software I am using on Linux it is a very affordable and economic option for someone with a very tight budget. While it is true if commercial software wasn't overly expensive I would certainly be more willing to pay for it, but cost is actually half the story here. There are things a person can do with open source that can't be done with commercial software if a person is inclined to do so. One of them is to take the source code for a program, modify it, and relese the changes back into the community. For example, on Linux there is a free game called Vectoroids. Its open source, and is a decent clone of the Asteroids game for Atari. If I wanted to I could grab the source code for the game, update it, add TTS support and other accessibility features and release my changes to the game back to the open source community just like that. No special licensing, no arguing over who did what, no fighting with big companies over adding accessibility, etc because the GPL is all about mutual cooperation between developers. Accessibility is an area where we have a foot in the door with open source because no one can deny us the right to modify the code if it is under the GPL or LGPL. If a corporation like Nintendo, Sony, EA Games, releases a game under a commercial license if you ask them to add access they can tell you to stick your suggestion where the sun doesn't shine. GPL software is much more user friendly. If you want to add access to an open source game like Flight Gear, Freeciv, Lin City, etc you are welcome to do it yourself. No one is going to complain provided the original author gets credit for writing his portion of the game and you release your modifications as open source. So I would argue that there is sometimes a need for open source. Cheers! On 4/25/13, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well in a way much that its a pain that all the agencys want you to use expensive jaws and everyone that uses the agency wants jaws for everyone because its what you use in a job, if we didn't have overly expensive software ever we wouldn't need opensource and nvda would not exist. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Bryan, True, but there is no absolute assurance Jaws or Window-Eyes will work with the software the company uses either. If scripting needs to be done all the major screen readers including NVDA can now do that so I really fail to see what advantage if any Jaws or Window-Eyes holds over a free screen reader like NVDA besides technical support and perhaps being able to hire someone from Freedom Scientific or GW Micro to come script the program if that needs to be done. Cheers! On 4/25/13, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: You don't evenhave that restriction with WIndow-Eyes, atleast according to the staff I've spokenn with at GW. I also like the fact that you don't necessarily have! to close WE to run audio games. There've been occasions when I forgot to close WE before loading, sa ALien Outback or pipe, only to discover the truth after I closed the game, all because WE doesn't often interfere with te game's operation the way the Shark does. The problemI can see wit using NVDA onte job would be because it may not work wit whatever software the business uses. But thou must! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
hi, exactly. and to the person, i forget who now, said about security programs and such doing so, yes, but generally its not locked down to a particular machine, based on the hardware thats in that machine! and generally, such hardware registration systems can be deregistered from one machine, and applied to a different one. the hardware system that we seems to be using here for the most part, appears to have a major problem. that is, if you upgrade any part of your computer, the program will no longer be registered for your machine! lets say i upgrade my netbooks ram from 1 gb, to 2 gb of ram after registering such a program. i would then have to buy the game again! admitedly, some don't work this way. but too many of them do. and as you say tom. it never stopped pirates. just hampered them for a week or two. lol. personally, there are some better ideas for registering a program. for example. lets say you use an internet registration mechonism. lets say that when you registered, you register with an email address, your name, and a password. you could then put a form in the registration for the program, that would send your user name, and password off to the server. it could then look that up, and then send a confirmation code to your registered email. that way, you go get that code from your personal email address, and nobody can hack that. as you would have to have access to that email address. what i'm saying is, there are far more effective ways of locking people out of cracking, then a hardware registration. yes, it require a server to be run. yes, it requires internet registration. so, people are going to say, oh, but what if i don't have access to internet to register it. well, i'm sorry to say this, but ... deal with it. there are a lot of games out there, in the mainstream gaming world, that require internet registration. and if you don't have access to internet. too bad. find access, long enough to register. as for the idea of this pack, i personally think he has given people long enough. the only area in which he perhaps could have done a little better, is finding a way to transmit the info out to everybody on this list, and perhaps others, as soon as he made the pack purchasable. but, thats his choice. and i have to admit. yes, its sad to see his stuff going. and i will probably atempt to buy the pack, simply so i have them, even if i don't use the games a lot. but never the less, I think, if the audio gaming industry is worth anything, then they should be able to come up with replacements, if not in fact better games. simply because, well, this is now, that was then. the games were good. yes. but with todays abilities, and the amount of sounds and music out there, i think that it would be easy enough to make replacements. and agreed, tom. the conversion rates can be a killer, in a lot of cases. i mean, there was one time, where if i wanted a program, from england, and the dev there was charging say, 15 pound, it would have hert for me to buy it. it would have been nearly 50 dollars australian! ... but now, its not too bad. so yes. i can see where conversion rates can kill a person's ability to buy the programs. regards: Dallas On 24/04/2013, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark and all, not only that, but studies show that the hardware ID key systems haven't done anything to prevent or slow down piracy. Microsoft found this out the hard way in 2007 when they released Windows Vista with a new hardware key system, and within two weeks or so there were cracks all over the web that simply went around Microsoft's brand spanking new key system. Point being the only people Microsoft punished were the honest paying customers like myself who paid for Windows Vista about a week or so after it came out. It didn't slow down or stop the software pirates. So what good did it do switching to a hardware key system? The reason hardware keys don't work is because it often fails to address the underlying reasons for piracy in the first place. There are a number of reasons why people pirate software and they can be addressed if a developer recognizes why his/her software is being pirated. One, is the issue of cost. I think we all understand the fact that do to exchange rates and so forth that what may be reasonable to one customer is an absurd amount of money to another. For a Canadian, American, or British customer $30 USD is probably pretty reasonable amount of money. However, I know that there are countries where that is hundreds perhaps thousands in their currency do to exchange rates. Therefore the only way they can hope to get the game is to steel it, or if the developer will offer a special deal to purchase the game at a lower price. Bottom line, if someone can't afford it they won't buy it. Then, there is the issue of availability. Do to trade embargos and other things like that a developer can't sell software to other countries even
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
exactly what I put in my messages a bit ago. At 08:32 AM 4/24/2013, you wrote: Hi Dark and all, not only that, but studies show that the hardware ID key systems haven't done anything to prevent or slow down piracy. Microsoft found this out the hard way in 2007 when they released Windows Vista with a new hardware key system, and within two weeks or so there were cracks all over the web that simply went around Microsoft's brand spanking new key system. Point being the only people Microsoft punished were the honest paying customers like myself who paid for Windows Vista about a week or so after it came out. It didn't slow down or stop the software pirates. So what good did it do switching to a hardware key system? The reason hardware keys don't work is because it often fails to address the underlying reasons for piracy in the first place. There are a number of reasons why people pirate software and they can be addressed if a developer recognizes why his/her software is being pirated. One, is the issue of cost. I think we all understand the fact that do to exchange rates and so forth that what may be reasonable to one customer is an absurd amount of money to another. For a Canadian, American, or British customer $30 USD is probably pretty reasonable amount of money. However, I know that there are countries where that is hundreds perhaps thousands in their currency do to exchange rates. Therefore the only way they can hope to get the game is to steel it, or if the developer will offer a special deal to purchase the game at a lower price. Bottom line, if someone can't afford it they won't buy it. Then, there is the issue of availability. Do to trade embargos and other things like that a developer can't sell software to other countries even though he or she may personally like to. There are countries such as Iran that the United States government has placed trade embargos on and it would be unlawful for a U.S. company to sell products and services to an Iranian person. Plus services like Paypal won't accept payments from countries under a trade embargo so a customer in such a situation really has little choice but to pirate the software weather they want to or not. Finally, there is the person who has the money but refuses to pay for the software but would rather pirate it instead. This is sadly more common than we would like, but there is nothing we can do about it. Someone who is going to steel software is going to do it no matter what. The point I want to make here is that all too often software developers look at piracy as losing money. That they count every act of piracy as a financial loss. The reality is that in a lot of cases it isn't a financial loss because either the person didn't have the money, they live in a country under a trade embargo, or are a dishonest git to begin with the developer wasn't going to be able to sell the software to him/her anyway. Its no great loss because honest customers and those who can pay will pay. The only thing a security system needs to do is keep an honest customer honest and there are proven methods to do that without resorting to draconian hardware key systems etc. Cheers! On 4/23/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Dallas. such limits are not actually just on audio games. Avg antivirus and pc tuneup programs limit you to two machines, and supernova limits you to three (though with supernova you get an extra license each month). the issue however, is that as Tom said, neither AVg nor Dolphin are likely to go out of business soon, thus meaning replacement keys are always obtainable, indeed I've had so many different licenses for supernova over the years on five or six different machines I can't count, particularly with all the version upgrades or even be in a position where if I really needed a new key I couldn't get one. Most graphical indi developers I've seen use name generated key systems, or even just sell you a download of a straight installer, (I've not bought many graphical indi games but I do have a couple, which i've installed on a couple of machines). One thing I do find odd, is that the security for software is so different from the security of buying other content across the internet. for example, there are I imagine not a few people on hear who know the internet audio drama series Leviathan chronicles, (and if not, check it out it' is great!). As people will know, while the main series is free, various audio extras are available to buy, such as special edition episodes and directors cut versions of the main series. When however you buy these, you simply get a download link with an expiration on it. You download the episodes, then the link won't work anymore, however that is it! no passwords, no codes nada! just download and play. yes, this makes them infinitely piratable if a person chose, but equally the producers are banking on people's honesty, partiuclarly since they offer so much
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Tom. this was exactly my point. if a person is going to pirate something they are going to pirate it anyway, where as the reverse is true. i particularly like your idea of developers talking to customers in countries like Iran, since that is something which has come up before, indeed I can think of an occasion jason Alan did this on the entombed list and a way around was worked out. This is why I myself choose to pay for software and audio from indi developers because! I want to support them, even if I could get pirated versions elsewhere. this also tracks into what I was saying about the community, and an attitude I've noticed among some people to tar everyone with the same brush and assume that just because some dishonest git thinks it's okay to pirate software from indi developers, and justifies this because they're living on government bennifits and can't be arsed to save money, doesn't mean everyone does or that that is a prevailing attitude in the vi gaming community. Any community is made up of individuals, and naturally some will be good, some bad, but one truth that studdying ethics has taught me is that all generalizations are wrong :d. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Dallas, Agreed. I feel internet activation is really the best method for cracking down on piracy while not being too restrictive. A MySQL database can be set up to track how many times the software has been registered, and if a person buys a new PC they can un register the copy on their old PC before installing it on the new PC. Of course, there are exceptions to this such as a serious hardware failure like a dead motherboard, hard drive dies, etc where it might not be possible to un register the old system unless the games security can be setup to do that. Still, if a game is limited to say three unlock codes and he or she has one on their laptop or desktop they might think twice about using their remaining unlock code on a friends PC. Using internet activation in this case is far less restrictive than hardware authorizations and yet offers a high degree of security. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Dark, Exactly. That's why I wanted to make it clear that there are many reasons why people pirate software. Yes, some blind people have an entitlement attitude, but certainly not everyone. Sometimes if the circumstances were different it might change some people's minds about pirating the software. Take for example the issue of how much a game costs. A lot of blind people are on government benefits and may think that paying $30 for a certain game is too high. Now, if that developer drops the price to $20 for the Christmas season it might encourage a few people to buy a legal copy because he game is now more affordable than it was before. They might not be willing to pay $30 but might be willing to pay $20 on that title. The point being once a developer finds out the reasons behind the piracy he or she can change some of the circumstances for the piracy and encourage some of those would be pirates into buying copies legally. Think the software is too high here is a discount for this month only. Can't buy the software because the exchange rates are too high lets setup a special one time sale at a reduced price that is affordable. Can't legally buy the software because you live in Iran or some place like that. Let's look at our options and see if there is a legal way to buy, sell, or trade for that software. Bottom line, piracy has a cause and if we can remove that cause, whatever it may be, then both parties will be satisfied. Cheers! On 4/24/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. this was exactly my point. if a person is going to pirate something they are going to pirate it anyway, where as the reverse is true. i particularly like your idea of developers talking to customers in countries like Iran, since that is something which has come up before, indeed I can think of an occasion jason Alan did this on the entombed list and a way around was worked out. This is why I myself choose to pay for software and audio from indi developers because! I want to support them, even if I could get pirated versions elsewhere. this also tracks into what I was saying about the community, and an attitude I've noticed among some people to tar everyone with the same brush and assume that just because some dishonest git thinks it's okay to pirate software from indi developers, and justifies this because they're living on government bennifits and can't be arsed to save money, doesn't mean everyone does or that that is a prevailing attitude in the vi gaming community. Any community is made up of individuals, and naturally some will be good, some bad, but one truth that studdying ethics has taught me is that all generalizations are wrong :d. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
I hate the 3 strikes rule. I had several instances where my computer kept on giving me a delayed write failure error. I kept replacing component after component, hard drives, CDrom, Ram etc, but the error still kept on happening. I kept having to reactivate jaws because my license kept being deactivated due to all the constant hardware changes. Freedom scifi got very very iffy with me when I kept having to ask for reset codes to stop the 40 minute demo and get my license back again. Eventually we tried replacing the power supply, this time it got rid of the delayed write failure error, but again, my license got deactivated again. At 07:28 AM 4/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Dallas, Agreed. I feel internet activation is really the best method for cracking down on piracy while not being too restrictive. A MySQL database can be set up to track how many times the software has been registered, and if a person buys a new PC they can un register the copy on their old PC before installing it on the new PC. Of course, there are exceptions to this such as a serious hardware failure like a dead motherboard, hard drive dies, etc where it might not be possible to un register the old system unless the games security can be setup to do that. Still, if a game is limited to say three unlock codes and he or she has one on their laptop or desktop they might think twice about using their remaining unlock code on a friends PC. Using internet activation in this case is far less restrictive than hardware authorizations and yet offers a high degree of security. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
That's one of the major reasons why I don't use the Shark anymore. Once you buy Window-Eyes you can install it on as many machines as you want/need to. True you still have to renew your SMA from time to time but GW Micro doesn't crank out new releases nearly as often as Greedom does, so you don't have to renew your SMA that often. As for internet activation I like how Jason does it with Entombed. You just install the game on a new machine and then log into your account and it'll activate the game. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Stephen Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 3:45 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games I hate the 3 strikes rule. I had several instances where my computer kept on giving me a delayed write failure error. I kept replacing component after component, hard drives, CDrom, Ram etc, but the error still kept on happening. I kept having to reactivate jaws because my license kept being deactivated due to all the constant hardware changes. Freedom scifi got very very iffy with me when I kept having to ask for reset codes to stop the 40 minute demo and get my license back again. Eventually we tried replacing the power supply, this time it got rid of the delayed write failure error, but again, my license got deactivated again. At 07:28 AM 4/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Dallas, Agreed. I feel internet activation is really the best method for cracking down on piracy while not being too restrictive. A MySQL database can be set up to track how many times the software has been registered, and if a person buys a new PC they can un register the copy on their old PC before installing it on the new PC. Of course, there are exceptions to this such as a serious hardware failure like a dead motherboard, hard drive dies, etc where it might not be possible to un register the old system unless the games security can be setup to do that. Still, if a game is limited to say three unlock codes and he or she has one on their laptop or desktop they might think twice about using their remaining unlock code on a friends PC. Using internet activation in this case is far less restrictive than hardware authorizations and yet offers a high degree of security. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
That happened to me when I installed more Ram into this machine I'm currently running, too. Luckily, it was a one-time deal, and FS didn't question why I needed a new license key, but you can imagine my disappointment when I found out that you can only have a certain amount of RAM on a 32 bit system. On 4/24/13, Stephen whocr...@internode.on.net wrote: I hate the 3 strikes rule. I had several instances where my computer kept on giving me a delayed write failure error. I kept replacing component after component, hard drives, CDrom, Ram etc, but the error still kept on happening. I kept having to reactivate jaws because my license kept being deactivated due to all the constant hardware changes. Freedom scifi got very very iffy with me when I kept having to ask for reset codes to stop the 40 minute demo and get my license back again. Eventually we tried replacing the power supply, this time it got rid of the delayed write failure error, but again, my license got deactivated again. At 07:28 AM 4/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Dallas, Agreed. I feel internet activation is really the best method for cracking down on piracy while not being too restrictive. A MySQL database can be set up to track how many times the software has been registered, and if a person buys a new PC they can un register the copy on their old PC before installing it on the new PC. Of course, there are exceptions to this such as a serious hardware failure like a dead motherboard, hard drive dies, etc where it might not be possible to un register the old system unless the games security can be setup to do that. Still, if a game is limited to say three unlock codes and he or she has one on their laptop or desktop they might think twice about using their remaining unlock code on a friends PC. Using internet activation in this case is far less restrictive than hardware authorizations and yet offers a high degree of security. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Another thing I was thinking is that some people might think that a game is priced too high for what it is. For example, we now have RS Games, the playroom, and Blind Adrenaline, not to mention all the single-player card and board games that Jim Kitchen has developed. When a person looks at All In Play, they might think that the price is outrageous, even though All in Play has anagrams and that other word game whose name I can't remember, since I haven't played their games in a very long time. While this is the most prominent example I can think of, and, frankly, I do think that most other commercial audio games are fairly priced, this is just another mindset to consider. Your suggestions for attracting new customers and keeping existing ones are sound, in my opinion. I just wanted to point out the very real possibility that some people might take a look at a game like Pipe or Troopanum and think that the price is unbalanced, particularly if we're talking about people who perhaps recently lost their site and need to adjust to the obviously different and often simpler world of audio games. On 4/24/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Exactly. That's why I wanted to make it clear that there are many reasons why people pirate software. Yes, some blind people have an entitlement attitude, but certainly not everyone. Sometimes if the circumstances were different it might change some people's minds about pirating the software. Take for example the issue of how much a game costs. A lot of blind people are on government benefits and may think that paying $30 for a certain game is too high. Now, if that developer drops the price to $20 for the Christmas season it might encourage a few people to buy a legal copy because he game is now more affordable than it was before. They might not be willing to pay $30 but might be willing to pay $20 on that title. The point being once a developer finds out the reasons behind the piracy he or she can change some of the circumstances for the piracy and encourage some of those would be pirates into buying copies legally. Think the software is too high here is a discount for this month only. Can't buy the software because the exchange rates are too high lets setup a special one time sale at a reduced price that is affordable. Can't legally buy the software because you live in Iran or some place like that. Let's look at our options and see if there is a legal way to buy, sell, or trade for that software. Bottom line, piracy has a cause and if we can remove that cause, whatever it may be, then both parties will be satisfied. Cheers! On 4/24/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. this was exactly my point. if a person is going to pirate something they are going to pirate it anyway, where as the reverse is true. i particularly like your idea of developers talking to customers in countries like Iran, since that is something which has come up before, indeed I can think of an occasion jason Alan did this on the entombed list and a way around was worked out. This is why I myself choose to pay for software and audio from indi developers because! I want to support them, even if I could get pirated versions elsewhere. this also tracks into what I was saying about the community, and an attitude I've noticed among some people to tar everyone with the same brush and assume that just because some dishonest git thinks it's okay to pirate software from indi developers, and justifies this because they're living on government bennifits and can't be arsed to save money, doesn't mean everyone does or that that is a prevailing attitude in the vi gaming community. Any community is made up of individuals, and naturally some will be good, some bad, but one truth that studdying ethics has taught me is that all generalizations are wrong :d. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
yeah cloud based activation is the way to go anyway. At 09:53 AM 4/25/2013, you wrote: That's one of the major reasons why I don't use the Shark anymore. Once you buy Window-Eyes you can install it on as many machines as you want/need to. True you still have to renew your SMA from time to time but GW Micro doesn't crank out new releases nearly as often as Greedom does, so you don't have to renew your SMA that often. As for internet activation I like how Jason does it with Entombed. You just install the game on a new machine and then log into your account and it'll activate the game. But thou must! -Original Message- From: Stephen Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 3:45 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games I hate the 3 strikes rule. I had several instances where my computer kept on giving me a delayed write failure error. I kept replacing component after component, hard drives, CDrom, Ram etc, but the error still kept on happening. I kept having to reactivate jaws because my license kept being deactivated due to all the constant hardware changes. Freedom scifi got very very iffy with me when I kept having to ask for reset codes to stop the 40 minute demo and get my license back again. Eventually we tried replacing the power supply, this time it got rid of the delayed write failure error, but again, my license got deactivated again. At 07:28 AM 4/25/2013, you wrote: Hi Dallas, Agreed. I feel internet activation is really the best method for cracking down on piracy while not being too restrictive. A MySQL database can be set up to track how many times the software has been registered, and if a person buys a new PC they can un register the copy on their old PC before installing it on the new PC. Of course, there are exceptions to this such as a serious hardware failure like a dead motherboard, hard drive dies, etc where it might not be possible to un register the old system unless the games security can be setup to do that. Still, if a game is limited to say three unlock codes and he or she has one on their laptop or desktop they might think twice about using their remaining unlock code on a friends PC. Using internet activation in this case is far less restrictive than hardware authorizations and yet offers a high degree of security. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Shaun, I think you are comparing apples to oranges here. Jaws Internet activation is still based on hardware authorization and if you change memory, CD ROM, etc it will cause Jaws to deactivate. What I was talking about is merely keeping track of three installations of the software which can be on three different machines you own with no hardware authorization required. Cheers! On 4/24/13, Stephen whocr...@internode.on.net wrote: I hate the 3 strikes rule. I had several instances where my computer kept on giving me a delayed write failure error. I kept replacing component after component, hard drives, CDrom, Ram etc, but the error still kept on happening. I kept having to reactivate jaws because my license kept being deactivated due to all the constant hardware changes. Freedom scifi got very very iffy with me when I kept having to ask for reset codes to stop the 40 minute demo and get my license back again. Eventually we tried replacing the power supply, this time it got rid of the delayed write failure error, but again, my license got deactivated again. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Desiree, To be specific 32-bit operating systems like XP can only support up to 4 GB of ram. A 64-bit OS like Windows 7 supports up to 128 GB of ram. Big difference. :D Cheers! On 4/24/13, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: That happened to me when I installed more Ram into this machine I'm currently running, too. Luckily, it was a one-time deal, and FS didn't question why I needed a new license key, but you can imagine my disappointment when I found out that you can only have a certain amount of RAM on a 32 bit system. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Yeah, I found that out the hard way, unfortunately. now i've got 8gb of useless Ram sitting in my computer. On 4/24/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Desiree, To be specific 32-bit operating systems like XP can only support up to 4 GB of ram. A 64-bit OS like Windows 7 supports up to 128 GB of ram. Big difference. :D Cheers! On 4/24/13, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: That happened to me when I installed more Ram into this machine I'm currently running, too. Luckily, it was a one-time deal, and FS didn't question why I needed a new license key, but you can imagine my disappointment when I found out that you can only have a certain amount of RAM on a 32 bit system. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
ouch lol well, you should be able to install a 64 bit OS on that machine then, and then the 8 gb will be used. so much better, running 64 bit. 32 bit is sooo old and slow. let alone the speed at which you can zip files up, in 64 bit mode, using all the ram you have. my god, does it go fast. lol and yeah tom. or as was mentioned, use an account user name and password to log in to the game. so that way, you wouldn't be limited to a number of machines, just open the game up, and log in to activate full mode. when a log in hasn't been provided, it would just run as a demo. or something along those lines. also, make it so that the account can only be logged in to by one person at a time, to stop people giving out account details for people to use. cause that way, if you are logged in, they can't be. lol. regards: Dallas On 25/04/2013, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, I found that out the hard way, unfortunately. now i've got 8gb of useless Ram sitting in my computer. On 4/24/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Desiree, To be specific 32-bit operating systems like XP can only support up to 4 GB of ram. A 64-bit OS like Windows 7 supports up to 128 GB of ram. Big difference. :D Cheers! On 4/24/13, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: That happened to me when I installed more Ram into this machine I'm currently running, too. Luckily, it was a one-time deal, and FS didn't question why I needed a new license key, but you can imagine my disappointment when I found out that you can only have a certain amount of RAM on a 32 bit system. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Oh yeah, I can imagine. This is only a dual core processor, though. Wouldn't I need a quad core to take full advantage of a 64 bit system? Either way, I can imagine how much faster it would be. Not only that, but it would take much longer for Firefox to eat up all my ram, and i wouldn't have to end the process in task manager every 20 minutes. On 4/25/13, Dallas O'Brien dallas.r.obr...@gmail.com wrote: ouch lol well, you should be able to install a 64 bit OS on that machine then, and then the 8 gb will be used. so much better, running 64 bit. 32 bit is sooo old and slow. let alone the speed at which you can zip files up, in 64 bit mode, using all the ram you have. my god, does it go fast. lol and yeah tom. or as was mentioned, use an account user name and password to log in to the game. so that way, you wouldn't be limited to a number of machines, just open the game up, and log in to activate full mode. when a log in hasn't been provided, it would just run as a demo. or something along those lines. also, make it so that the account can only be logged in to by one person at a time, to stop people giving out account details for people to use. cause that way, if you are logged in, they can't be. lol. regards: Dallas On 25/04/2013, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, I found that out the hard way, unfortunately. now i've got 8gb of useless Ram sitting in my computer. On 4/24/13, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Desiree, To be specific 32-bit operating systems like XP can only support up to 4 GB of ram. A 64-bit OS like Windows 7 supports up to 128 GB of ram. Big difference. :D Cheers! On 4/24/13, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: That happened to me when I installed more Ram into this machine I'm currently running, too. Luckily, it was a one-time deal, and FS didn't question why I needed a new license key, but you can imagine my disappointment when I found out that you can only have a certain amount of RAM on a 32 bit system. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
no. pritty much all CPU's these days, are 64 bit. whether they be dual core, quad core, or 8 core systems. 64 bit OS's doesn't require quad core, at all. regards: Dallas On 25/04/2013, Desiree Oudinot turtlepowe...@gmail.com wrote: Oh yeah, I can imagine. This is only a dual core processor, though. Wouldn't I need a quad core to take full advantage of a 64 bit system? Either way, I can imagine how much faster it would be. Not only that, but it would take much longer for Firefox to eat up all my ram, and i wouldn't have to end the process in task manager every 20 minutes. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Dallas. such limits are not actually just on audio games. Avg antivirus and pc tuneup programs limit you to two machines, and supernova limits you to three (though with supernova you get an extra license each month). the issue however, is that as Tom said, neither AVg nor Dolphin are likely to go out of business soon, thus meaning replacement keys are always obtainable, indeed I've had so many different licenses for supernova over the years on five or six different machines I can't count, particularly with all the version upgrades or even be in a position where if I really needed a new key I couldn't get one. Most graphical indi developers I've seen use name generated key systems, or even just sell you a download of a straight installer, (I've not bought many graphical indi games but I do have a couple, which i've installed on a couple of machines). One thing I do find odd, is that the security for software is so different from the security of buying other content across the internet. for example, there are I imagine not a few people on hear who know the internet audio drama series Leviathan chronicles, (and if not, check it out it' is great!). As people will know, while the main series is free, various audio extras are available to buy, such as special edition episodes and directors cut versions of the main series. When however you buy these, you simply get a download link with an expiration on it. You download the episodes, then the link won't work anymore, however that is it! no passwords, no codes nada! just download and play. yes, this makes them infinitely piratable if a person chose, but equally the producers are banking on people's honesty, partiuclarly since they offer so much for free and are very much an indi audio company. while some audio companies have proprietory software, encripted files etc, Leviathan, and a few others recognize this does no good, - after all, pretty much anything! that plays can be coppied with a digital reccorder, (one reason why apple's itunes system is rather doomed). Yet, why can indi audio producers have this level of trust in their customers, when if anything their work is easier! to pirate, while software developers do not? that people will pirate things is inevitable, and I'm pretty sure if I searched around there are pirated copies of Leviathan floating about, but that didn't make the producers attempt some draconian system of control, so what is so different with indi developed software? Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Dark, Several points I want to make here. Hardware locking of software, or effectively the same, is common in other areas as well. SNES cartridges didn't work in Nintendo 64's, 64's cartridges didn't work in GameCube, etc. If your console died, you either needed to get another console that worked with the games you owned, or not play them. I realize it isn't a direct comparison, but it's a similar situation. It's the huge rate of piracy in this industry that makes it necessary to do this. We resisted locking our games down for ten years, but that hasn't worked all that well, because many folks in the VI community…not all by any means but a significant number…justify it by saying they are on a fixed income, etc. Somehow, that makes it okay to steal games. Sad, but true. Your iTunes comment is baffling, though. iTunes is the #1 digital music seller by a huge margin, does not sell music with DRM, and uses a variant of an open format. iTunes tracks can be played on a wide variety of players, not just Apple produced ones. In fact, MP3 is a far more encumbered format in terms of licensing. You just don't think of it as so, because it has become so ubiquitous. It was the record labels, not APple, that insisted on the DRM, and as soon as it became possible, Apple used its power in the industry to ditch it, as it was far more trouble than it was worth. TV and movie content still is DRM encumbered, but that's true no matter where you get it from, and neither Apple or anyone else at this point has the power to challenge HOllywood to change the status quo. As for as Justin's decision goes…I think he's got every right to retain his intellectual copyright, and, as a developer, I'm frankly appalled at the sentiments toward Justin and his decisions. He worked hard on those games. Why should he give them away? I guess I'll know what to expect if I ever retire. It's these kinds of attitudes that push debs away from interacting with the community. It's why I rarely do. On Apr 23, 2013, at 6:57 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Dallas. such limits are not actually just on audio games. Avg antivirus and pc tuneup programs limit you to two machines, and supernova limits you to three (though with supernova you get an extra license each month). the issue however, is that as Tom said, neither AVg nor Dolphin are likely to go out of business soon, thus meaning replacement keys are always obtainable, indeed I've had so many different licenses for supernova over the years on five or six different machines I can't count, particularly with all the version upgrades or even be in a position where if I really needed a new key I couldn't get one. Most graphical indi developers I've seen use name generated key systems, or even just sell you a download of a straight installer, (I've not bought many graphical indi games but I do have a couple, which i've installed on a couple of machines). One thing I do find odd, is that the security for software is so different from the security of buying other content across the internet. for example, there are I imagine not a few people on hear who know the internet audio drama series Leviathan chronicles, (and if not, check it out it' is great!). As people will know, while the main series is free, various audio extras are available to buy, such as special edition episodes and directors cut versions of the main series. When however you buy these, you simply get a download link with an expiration on it. You download the episodes, then the link won't work anymore, however that is it! no passwords, no codes nada! just download and play. yes, this makes them infinitely piratable if a person chose, but equally the producers are banking on people's honesty, partiuclarly since they offer so much for free and are very much an indi audio company. while some audio companies have proprietory software, encripted files etc, Leviathan, and a few others recognize this does no good, - after all, pretty much anything! that plays can be coppied with a digital reccorder, (one reason why apple's itunes system is rather doomed). Yet, why can indi audio producers have this level of trust in their customers, when if anything their work is easier! to pirate, while software developers do not? that people will pirate things is inevitable, and I'm pretty sure if I searched around there are pirated copies of Leviathan floating about, but that didn't make the producers attempt some draconian system of control, so what is so different with indi developed software? Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
Re: [Audyssey] More on hardware keys was: Re: An Announcement Regarding BSC Games
Hi Dark and all, not only that, but studies show that the hardware ID key systems haven't done anything to prevent or slow down piracy. Microsoft found this out the hard way in 2007 when they released Windows Vista with a new hardware key system, and within two weeks or so there were cracks all over the web that simply went around Microsoft's brand spanking new key system. Point being the only people Microsoft punished were the honest paying customers like myself who paid for Windows Vista about a week or so after it came out. It didn't slow down or stop the software pirates. So what good did it do switching to a hardware key system? The reason hardware keys don't work is because it often fails to address the underlying reasons for piracy in the first place. There are a number of reasons why people pirate software and they can be addressed if a developer recognizes why his/her software is being pirated. One, is the issue of cost. I think we all understand the fact that do to exchange rates and so forth that what may be reasonable to one customer is an absurd amount of money to another. For a Canadian, American, or British customer $30 USD is probably pretty reasonable amount of money. However, I know that there are countries where that is hundreds perhaps thousands in their currency do to exchange rates. Therefore the only way they can hope to get the game is to steel it, or if the developer will offer a special deal to purchase the game at a lower price. Bottom line, if someone can't afford it they won't buy it. Then, there is the issue of availability. Do to trade embargos and other things like that a developer can't sell software to other countries even though he or she may personally like to. There are countries such as Iran that the United States government has placed trade embargos on and it would be unlawful for a U.S. company to sell products and services to an Iranian person. Plus services like Paypal won't accept payments from countries under a trade embargo so a customer in such a situation really has little choice but to pirate the software weather they want to or not. Finally, there is the person who has the money but refuses to pay for the software but would rather pirate it instead. This is sadly more common than we would like, but there is nothing we can do about it. Someone who is going to steel software is going to do it no matter what. The point I want to make here is that all too often software developers look at piracy as losing money. That they count every act of piracy as a financial loss. The reality is that in a lot of cases it isn't a financial loss because either the person didn't have the money, they live in a country under a trade embargo, or are a dishonest git to begin with the developer wasn't going to be able to sell the software to him/her anyway. Its no great loss because honest customers and those who can pay will pay. The only thing a security system needs to do is keep an honest customer honest and there are proven methods to do that without resorting to draconian hardware key systems etc. Cheers! On 4/23/13, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Dallas. such limits are not actually just on audio games. Avg antivirus and pc tuneup programs limit you to two machines, and supernova limits you to three (though with supernova you get an extra license each month). the issue however, is that as Tom said, neither AVg nor Dolphin are likely to go out of business soon, thus meaning replacement keys are always obtainable, indeed I've had so many different licenses for supernova over the years on five or six different machines I can't count, particularly with all the version upgrades or even be in a position where if I really needed a new key I couldn't get one. Most graphical indi developers I've seen use name generated key systems, or even just sell you a download of a straight installer, (I've not bought many graphical indi games but I do have a couple, which i've installed on a couple of machines). One thing I do find odd, is that the security for software is so different from the security of buying other content across the internet. for example, there are I imagine not a few people on hear who know the internet audio drama series Leviathan chronicles, (and if not, check it out it' is great!). As people will know, while the main series is free, various audio extras are available to buy, such as special edition episodes and directors cut versions of the main series. When however you buy these, you simply get a download link with an expiration on it. You download the episodes, then the link won't work anymore, however that is it! no passwords, no codes nada! just download and play. yes, this makes them infinitely piratable if a person chose, but equally the producers are banking on people's honesty, partiuclarly since they offer so much for free and are very much an indi audio company. while some audio companies have
