Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Wow Valliant! tell us how you *REALLY* feel! Have a great weekend!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 4, 2008, at 10:45 AM, ValianValiantt (on laptop) wrote: > Hi. > I do happen to know macs run windows all right. In fact, I've heard > claim > that g4s and this like that turn out to run vista a looot better > than pcs > designed for windows do, how stpid and not surprising. > Anyway, so if I'm a mac only user, and I wanna play rail racer, or > gtc, or > lw, or sod, or soundrts, oh wait take that back, it already > supports, I > gotta figure out how to install windows rofl? That means mom gets to > sit > here with me for about an hour, then I gotta find drivers and raaa, > how easy > and supportive. If that's what you meant, me thinks those who > develop games > that should run slick and smooth on multiple operating systems, > maybe even > miniature OS's, like windows mobile or simbion or something, > although I'm > betting simbion can't run something like rail racer but the thing, > that > could open up lots of gates for cash and make the developer's work > more > worth while. not to mention, if I had me Linux, I just might by god > stick to > it, since even though I'm a native windows user, I don't find it too > all > fired brilliant and wonderful and run-perfect and all that. I bet > ubuntu > doesn't screw up every time I try to connect to my very own home > wireless > network, or bulk when I plug it into the rj45 jack at school and end > up > giving me no access to the internet, or crash when I try to shut it > down, or > catch a virus despite precautions that's eating up executable files > on my > server's hard drive and making programs useless and avading my > attempts to > remove it, or crashing when I attempt to resume from hibernation, > let alone > failing to hibernate or stand by all together, or giving me the BSOD > and not > talking about it to me, or installing updates after I go to shut > down, only > I can tell it hasn't shut down, and I have to guess at whether it's > properly > installing updates, or if it froze up after my screen reader got > killed and > me hit the power button when maybe it says bright and clear up there > on that > screen, Do not shut down your computer until this process is > finished, or > run 60 to 95 processes at a time for a brand spanking new vista > machine! > Slowing my computer to a crawl, even before I start to install my own > programs that I want to use, or have the screen reader reading text > in a > background window while I'm trying to check email, or produce a wild > case of > system dings when I hit control immediately after entering message > body so > as to start right off using arrows to read, those last two are jaw's > fault > but they count as far as I'm concerned. And I haven't even started > on about > 200 dollars for a good OS, and then somewhere getting unnervingly > close to > 2000 dollars for the stupid screen reader if you want professional > access > and remote desktop, ok granted window-eyes is less than half that > but now > add 1 to 500 dollars for Microsoft office, unless you wanna go > download open > office.org, sure that'll work, except now the screen reader won't > read the > thin worth a hoot, or another 4 to 500 dollars for a good music mixing > software that can do decent recording and crap, yeah I could go on > for a > looot longer about how if I found Linux to be a better solution I > could > switch to it, and then be thrilled if some of those wonder game > developers > started porting games to my lap so I wouldn't have to touch windows > again! > Anyway, the point is, as far as it goes with me, if developers start > making > games work with other operating systems, they'll get no complaint > from me. > Also, windows users, I'm as much a windows user as any of you are, > quite > likely anyway, but darned if I wouldn't switch to something else if it > proved to be a better option, and having games available on > alternative > operating systems is a starter.H > - Original Message - > From: "Che" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Gamers Discussion list" > Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:43 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games > > >> Thomas wrote: >> It is true that most Mac users are running our games through Windows >> virtual >> machines, but as I stated in an earlier post that is nowhere near >> as good >> as >> playing th
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi Cara, Yeah, in regards to Vista it isn't the ideal for playing games. Vista's User Account Control blocks or effects mosts audio games in some way, and especially if you are not running as the admin with admin rights. So turning it off is the only way to get nearly 100% assurance that your games will run properly under Vista unless the apps have been corrected to work with Vista's new security polacy. To top that off Microsoft has cut out VB 6 DirectX support from Vista so that is just one more thing that needs installed to maintain backward compatibility with older games. Cara Quinn wrote: >Agreed, and I'm one of them.I'd rather not run windows > at all. > >For now though, I need to continue development / testing on AQ / > JQ, so there ya go. > > I personally wouldn't touch Vista at this point though, so am just > looking at continuing with XP for the moment... > >Have an awesome day!... > > Smiles, > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi, I wouldn't say that running XP or Vista under Linux using a vm software like VM Ware is exactly dire, but you will notice some slow down and proformence los by doing so on computers with less memory and older processors. However, with Vista using it under VM is horrible even with the Arrow service turned off and a 2.4 GHZ processor. Vista really needs at least 3 GHZ to run good and 1 GB of ram absolute minimum if you are going to vm it. Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hi Cara and all, > > Yes, you are correct as far as XP goes. Vista doesn't run nearly as > well as XP in a virtual environment. The performance hit is > noticeable though, but it isn't quite as dire as it may be under > Linux. The may issue is, I think, that Windows coupled with a Windows > screen reader is prohibitively expensive...and most Mac users would > far and away prefer not to have to run Windows at all if they can > avoid it. > > Draconis Entertainment > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi Valiant, Quote I do happen to know macs run windows all right. In fact, I've heard claim that g4s and this like that turn out to run vista a lot better than pcs... End quote That is interesting news, and I am glad Mac OS's vm software is so good. Though, that in the end is beside the point, because there will be additional cost for Windows, Jaws, etc which makes running a Mac or Linux kind of pointless. Quote Anyway, so if I'm a mac only user, and I wanna play rail racer, or gtc, or lw, or sod, or soundrts, oh wait take that back, it already supports, I gotta figure out how to install windows rofl? That means mom gets to sit here with me for about an hour, then I gotta find drivers and raaa, how easy and supportive. End quote Yes, exactly. I can't tell you how many times I have had to ask someone sighted to sit by me as I did a Windows install, and Mac users and Linux users left Windows for that exact reason. It is a totally different experience if you can just buy a new operating system, boot the install cd, and begin installation with speech. Quote Also, windows users, I'm as much a windows user as any of you are, quite likely anyway, but darned if I wouldn't switch to something else if it proved to be a better option, and having games available on alternative operating systems is a starter. End quote My thoughts exactly. Unfortunately, Linux and Mac don't have the same number of accessible applications as Windows yet, but as interest and the user base grows so will the applications for us grow and improve. This has been one of Mac and Linux's failing points. Allot of people try them, say there isn't this this and this, and then quit. They don't see they have to be using that os and express a desire for this this and this in order to show there is a growing sector of people sick of Windows only access software and apps. The argument there isn't enough users is a circular one, and it is the norm responce from the general computer development base. "Oh, hum... There aren't that many Mac users, Linux users, to worry about them. I'll wait until there is a big comunity of Linux users, Mac users, etc..." New users come along and say, "Oh, hum... this os doesn't have this, this, and this." Then, they quit. So this requires responce from both sides. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi. I do happen to know macs run windows all right. In fact, I've heard claim that g4s and this like that turn out to run vista a looot better than pcs designed for windows do, how stpid and not surprising. Anyway, so if I'm a mac only user, and I wanna play rail racer, or gtc, or lw, or sod, or soundrts, oh wait take that back, it already supports, I gotta figure out how to install windows rofl? That means mom gets to sit here with me for about an hour, then I gotta find drivers and raaa, how easy and supportive. If that's what you meant, me thinks those who develop games that should run slick and smooth on multiple operating systems, maybe even miniature OS's, like windows mobile or simbion or something, although I'm betting simbion can't run something like rail racer but the thing, that could open up lots of gates for cash and make the developer's work more worth while. not to mention, if I had me Linux, I just might by god stick to it, since even though I'm a native windows user, I don't find it too all fired brilliant and wonderful and run-perfect and all that. I bet ubuntu doesn't screw up every time I try to connect to my very own home wireless network, or bulk when I plug it into the rj45 jack at school and end up giving me no access to the internet, or crash when I try to shut it down, or catch a virus despite precautions that's eating up executable files on my server's hard drive and making programs useless and avading my attempts to remove it, or crashing when I attempt to resume from hibernation, let alone failing to hibernate or stand by all together, or giving me the BSOD and not talking about it to me, or installing updates after I go to shut down, only I can tell it hasn't shut down, and I have to guess at whether it's properly installing updates, or if it froze up after my screen reader got killed and me hit the power button when maybe it says bright and clear up there on that screen, Do not shut down your computer until this process is finished, or run 60 to 95 processes at a time for a brand spanking new vista machine! Slowing my computer to a crawl, even before I start to install my own programs that I want to use, or have the screen reader reading text in a background window while I'm trying to check email, or produce a wild case of system dings when I hit control immediately after entering message body so as to start right off using arrows to read, those last two are jaw's fault but they count as far as I'm concerned. And I haven't even started on about 200 dollars for a good OS, and then somewhere getting unnervingly close to 2000 dollars for the stupid screen reader if you want professional access and remote desktop, ok granted window-eyes is less than half that but now add 1 to 500 dollars for Microsoft office, unless you wanna go download open office.org, sure that'll work, except now the screen reader won't read the thin worth a hoot, or another 4 to 500 dollars for a good music mixing software that can do decent recording and crap, yeah I could go on for a looot longer about how if I found Linux to be a better solution I could switch to it, and then be thrilled if some of those wonder game developers started porting games to my lap so I wouldn't have to touch windows again! Anyway, the point is, as far as it goes with me, if developers start making games work with other operating systems, they'll get no complaint from me. Also, windows users, I'm as much a windows user as any of you are, quite likely anyway, but darned if I wouldn't switch to something else if it proved to be a better option, and having games available on alternative operating systems is a starter.H - Original Message - From: "Che" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games > Thomas wrote: > It is true that most Mac users are running our games through Windows > virtual > machines, but as I stated in an earlier post that is nowhere near as good > as > playing the game that is natively supported by the os or run through > something like the Java runtime. > End quote > > Do you know this for a fact? I have a few users of Rail Racer running on > Mac and as far as I know it works quite well. I was under the impression > windows was running natively, not in an emulated mode, but I could be > totally off base there. > Given the low overhead of accessible games in general, I would think any > accessible game would run just fine in a windows environment running on > Macs, given todays processor speeds, but I haven't checked this for > myself. > I agree the envelope should be pushed with accessible games, and quite > hard, but given the overwhelming maj
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games was Raceway
Hi. I've never been able to get any of my computers to run Linux for some strange reason, they either don't work with sound, or the screen messes up. I just asked for a cd copy of ubuntu 7.10 though, and I'll be trying it on like five different personal computers, surely to god I'll get it running somewhere! - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:09 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games was Raceway > Hi Che and all, > Well, USA Games is currently doing an informal survey on Mac and Linux > gaming and we think that some sort of cross platform gaming would be > valuable. Perhaps not every project, and maybe not even something as > serious as Raceway or Rail Racer, but I think those markets are do for > the kinds of games like Jim Kitchen puts out. The Mac Visionaries group > and the Gnome Accessibility Project are two areas where support is > growing, and providing more accessible games, applications, and tools > for those platforms will drasticly improve those operating systems for > prospective blind users who are looking for a non-Windows alternative. > It is true that most Mac users are running our games through Windows > virtual machines, but as I stated in an earlier post that is nowhere > near as good as playing the game that is natively supported by the os or > run through something like the Java runtime. How much impact it would > have is something I should ask the Mac Visionaries list which is where > all the Mac action seams to be now days. > As for weather or not to go multiplatform I think that is in all > respects a personal decision. As I have said many times in this day > alone I've been using alternative operating systems like Linux for a > number of years, and for myself alone going cross platform is a good > idea. The only reason I am targeting Windows is that it is where the > traditional markets are, but I want to expand out into the fringe > markets and see what is out there for us as far as new and untouched > markets. > If you haven't listened to Michael Feir's latest podcast on Blind Cool > Tech it kind of gets into this general idea. While the apps he points > out are so so the basic message holds true. If you aren't willing to > expand, explore outside of the triditional blind box, we won't grow and > find out new things. Even things that were not made accessible but are > so by accident or design. > Your Rail Racer game is such a case where you have pushed new areas not > really explored by blind programmers. You have introduced the mouse as a > new gaming controller, introduced multiplayer gaming like never before, > and you have pushed the market to new and until now unexplored gaming > possibilities. > Now, I think I am kind of doing the same thing except I am exploring how > well games will do outside of the traditional core gaming comunity made > up of mostly Windows only users. > Obviously, before I actually ported something as complex as Raceway I > should create a simple space Invaders shoot-m-up type game or something > to see how well it works on Mac, Linux, and Windows and to get the basic > concepts down for multiplatform gaming. However, I certainly believe it > is something to research and explore. > > Che wrote: >> I would do a survey before going through the trouble of cross >> developing >> any accessible game. I'm afraid given the limited amount of Linux and >> Mac >> users using accessible technology, it simply would not be worth the >> effort, >> especially if you end up cutting out features to make it work on all >> systems. >> Regarding the mac users, the windows environment running on there works >> just fine for accessible games from what I have heard, so I'm not sure >> how >> much impact a mac version would have at any rate. >> I agree with Karl that there are a lot of folks out there waiting on >> raceway, and I'm sure over 90 percent of them are ready to roll with >> windows. >> As a developer, I have no intentions of going cross platform, I am >> quite >> happy with the response I've gotten from windows users, but if I were >> doing >> raceway, I would make it as good as possible for windows, and leave the >> cross platform experiment for another game down the road after gathering >> more info about linux and mac users. >> I think it is a noble idea, but one that will probably be dissapointing >> in >> the final analysis. >> Whatever your decision Thomas, I wish you luck with it. >> Later, >> Che >> > > > --- > Ga
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Agreed, and I'm one of them.I'd rather not run windows at all. For now though, I need to continue development / testing on AQ / JQ, so there ya go. I personally wouldn't touch Vista at this point though, so am just looking at continuing with XP for the moment... Have an awesome day!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 3, 2008, at 10:24 AM, Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Hi Cara and all, > > Yes, you are correct as far as XP goes. Vista doesn't run nearly as > well as XP in a virtual environment. The performance hit is > noticeable though, but it isn't quite as dire as it may be under > Linux. The may issue is, I think, that Windows coupled with a Windows > screen reader is prohibitively expensive...and most Mac users would > far and away prefer not to have to run Windows at all if they can > avoid it. > > Draconis Entertainment > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Draconis Entertainment > "Feel the power...wield the magic..." > http://www.DraconisEntertainment.com > http://www.DracoEnt.com > > > > On 3 Jan, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Cara Quinn wrote: > >> Actually, in fusion, the virtualized OS only uses (in the case of a >> core 2 duo) half of the processor, I.E. one core, with the other >> running the native OS. I'm not sure how this happens in Parallels >> but >> other than that, windows actually is supposed to run better than some >> native windows machines when being run in a boot environment. >> >> I think some of what you were hearing in regard to Macs >> running great until you put windows on them, was a bit of humor, - >> only >> just a bit though! lol!... >> >> Smiles, >> >> Cara :) > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > . > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of > the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi Cara and all, Yes, you are correct as far as XP goes. Vista doesn't run nearly as well as XP in a virtual environment. The performance hit is noticeable though, but it isn't quite as dire as it may be under Linux. The may issue is, I think, that Windows coupled with a Windows screen reader is prohibitively expensive...and most Mac users would far and away prefer not to have to run Windows at all if they can avoid it. Draconis Entertainment [EMAIL PROTECTED] Draconis Entertainment "Feel the power...wield the magic..." http://www.DraconisEntertainment.com http://www.DracoEnt.com On 3 Jan, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Cara Quinn wrote: > Actually, in fusion, the virtualized OS only uses (in the case of a > core 2 duo) half of the processor, I.E. one core, with the other > running the native OS. I'm not sure how this happens in Parallels but > other than that, windows actually is supposed to run better than some > native windows machines when being run in a boot environment. > > I think some of what you were hearing in regard to Macs > running great until you put windows on them, was a bit of humor, -only > just a bit though! lol!... > > Smiles, > > Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Actually, in fusion, the virtualized OS only uses (in the case of a core 2 duo) half of the processor, I.E. one core, with the other running the native OS. I'm not sure how this happens in Parallels but other than that, windows actually is supposed to run better than some native windows machines when being run in a boot environment. I think some of what you were hearing in regard to Macs running great until you put windows on them, was a bit of humor, -only just a bit though! lol!... Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 3, 2008, at 9:52 AM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi William, > Yeah. I completely understand that. I saw a post over on the Mac > Visionaries list where someone stated, "a Mac generally runs pretty > good > until you install Windows on it." I am certain that there are allot > more > than just that one poster who feel that way. I have seen similar > statements on the blind Linux lists regarding Windows virtual machines > Bottom line, if a user doesn't have to buy Windows they won't.. > > > william lomas wrote: >> hi i run fusion on my mac though to have a virtual machine on here >> i.e. a whole operating system, is daft to ahve the games natively on >> mac would mean i coud ditch windows on here >> > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > . > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of > the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi, Yes, that is correct. However, this would give me the perfect opertunity to rewrite the game from scratch and use it as a testbed application for multiplatform games. Willem wrote: > Thomas lost the source code for stfc because of several events and that is > why he released it as freeware. When he updates the program he can only > change the game sounds and such. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi William, Yeah. I completely understand that. I saw a post over on the Mac Visionaries list where someone stated, "a Mac generally runs pretty good until you install Windows on it." I am certain that there are allot more than just that one poster who feel that way. I have seen similar statements on the blind Linux lists regarding Windows virtual machines Bottom line, if a user doesn't have to buy Windows they won't.. william lomas wrote: > hi i run fusion on my mac though to have a virtual machine on here > i.e. a whole operating system, is daft to ahve the games natively on > mac would mean i coud ditch windows on here > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi, Yes, I have to agree completely with your assessment here. Asking a Mac or even a Linux user to buy Windows and a Windows screen reader to run a game through a virtual machine is asking quite allot from your Mac or Linux customer base. I can remember a couple of years ago I wanted to try Windows via virtual machine with Linux. Linux ran fine, but as soon as I installed and ran Windows XP over top of Linux in a vm environment system performence took a major hit. Games, screen readers, etc were no where as good as if I had just ran them on a completely native Windows system. Sure some users might be satisfied to be able to run the game at all even if they have to run Windows through a side-by-side vm. However, given a choice most would request a game designed for his or own platform. Draconis Entertainment wrote: > Currently, I'm running Windows XP and Vista in a virtual machine via > Parallels Desktop for Mac. You can install Windows with APple's > Bootcamp software, included as part of Leopard, and boot into Windows > natively as well. However, either of these methods is ridiculous to > expect gamers to do to play games. For the most part, Mac users have > little use for WIndows unless they have a specific need for a Windows > application. By the time you pay for Windows and a screen reader, > you're talking about well over a thousand dollars. Most Mac users > have no desire to run Windows and a Windows screen reader. I only do > it for development purposes, and do not use WIndows for anything else > these days, which has been true for quite some time. > > Some of the advantages of switchingt to Mac are lost if you are going > to buy WIndows and a Windows screen reader, and you'll find that > almost no blind Mac users will do it. Another example...Mac is able > to run Windows natively and in a virtual machine now. Did that mean > Microsoft stopped development for Microsoft Office for Mac? No. It > will be released in about two weeks. > > > > Draconis Entertainment > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Draconis Entertainment > "Feel the power...wield the magic..." > http://www.DraconisEntertainment.com > http://www.DracoEnt.com > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Currently, I'm running Windows XP and Vista in a virtual machine via Parallels Desktop for Mac. You can install Windows with APple's Bootcamp software, included as part of Leopard, and boot into Windows natively as well. However, either of these methods is ridiculous to expect gamers to do to play games. For the most part, Mac users have little use for WIndows unless they have a specific need for a Windows application. By the time you pay for Windows and a screen reader, you're talking about well over a thousand dollars. Most Mac users have no desire to run Windows and a Windows screen reader. I only do it for development purposes, and do not use WIndows for anything else these days, which has been true for quite some time. Some of the advantages of switchingt to Mac are lost if you are going to buy WIndows and a Windows screen reader, and you'll find that almost no blind Mac users will do it. Another example...Mac is able to run Windows natively and in a virtual machine now. Did that mean Microsoft stopped development for Microsoft Office for Mac? No. It will be released in about two weeks. Draconis Entertainment [EMAIL PROTECTED] Draconis Entertainment "Feel the power...wield the magic..." http://www.DraconisEntertainment.com http://www.DracoEnt.com On 2 Jan, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Che wrote: > Thomas wrote: > It is true that most Mac users are running our games through Windows > virtual > machines, but as I stated in an earlier post that is nowhere near as > good as > playing the game that is natively supported by the os or run through > something like the Java runtime. > End quote > > Do you know this for a fact? I have a few users of Rail Racer > running on > Mac and as far as I know it works quite well. I was under the > impression > windows was running natively, not in an emulated mode, but I could be > totally off base there. > Given the low overhead of accessible games in general, I would > think any > accessible game would run just fine in a windows environment running > on > Macs, given todays processor speeds, but I haven't checked this for > myself. > I agree the envelope should be pushed with accessible games, and > quite > hard, but given the overwhelming majority of windows users out there > at this > point in time, for me the R and D time is better spent making a > windows game > as fun and immerssive as possible. > But again, that is just me and my angle on things, if you decide to > make > raceway or any other game cross platform I will be very interested > in the > results, and I am sure other developers will as well.. > I am not sure how complex the conversion would be for your Star > Trek game, > but given that you already have the code for it, that might make a > good test > case, eh? > Later, > Che > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > . > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of > the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
hi i run fusion on my mac though to have a virtual machine on here i.e. a whole operating system, is daft to ahve the games natively on mac would mean i coud ditch windows on here On 3 Jan 2008, at 03:43, Che wrote: > Thomas wrote: > It is true that most Mac users are running our games through Windows > virtual > machines, but as I stated in an earlier post that is nowhere near as > good as > playing the game that is natively supported by the os or run through > something like the Java runtime. > End quote > > Do you know this for a fact? I have a few users of Rail Racer > running on > Mac and as far as I know it works quite well. I was under the > impression > windows was running natively, not in an emulated mode, but I could be > totally off base there. > Given the low overhead of accessible games in general, I would > think any > accessible game would run just fine in a windows environment running > on > Macs, given todays processor speeds, but I haven't checked this for > myself. > I agree the envelope should be pushed with accessible games, and > quite > hard, but given the overwhelming majority of windows users out there > at this > point in time, for me the R and D time is better spent making a > windows game > as fun and immerssive as possible. > But again, that is just me and my angle on things, if you decide to > make > raceway or any other game cross platform I will be very interested > in the > results, and I am sure other developers will as well.. > I am not sure how complex the conversion would be for your Star > Trek game, > but given that you already have the code for it, that might make a > good test > case, eh? > Later, > Che > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > . > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of > the list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Hi Che, Quote I agree the envelope should be pushed with accessible games, and quite hard, but given the overwhelming majority of windows users out there at this point in time, for me the R and D time is better spent making a windows game as fun and immerssive as possible. End quote Well, there is nothing wrong about that point of view. However, some languages like Java really make it easier to make applications cross platform , and if I can make a game multiplatform and as fun and as immerssive as possible all the better. So I am willing to put in a few hours of research to see what exactly can be done. So far I am turning up some good info on how to make Java games with force feedback game controllers for Windows while supporting just keyboards and mice for Mac OS and Linux. If my research is true I might be able to have my cake and eat it too. Quote if you decide to make raceway or any other game cross platform I will be very interested in the results, and I am sure other developers will as well.. End quote Well, assuming that I succeed in producing the first multiplatform accessible game I will be sure to let all the game developers know the results of my research. I've been working on this project for a couple of months, and over the passed three days alone I have turned up allot of information which suggests that what I want to do isn't impossible. Just needs tested and researched with a few game projects. Which something small like some card or board games would be a great place to start for something like that. Quote I am not sure how complex the conversion would be for your Star Trek game, but given that you already have the code for it, that might make a good test case, eh? End quote That is a primary example of a game that would be good for cross platform testing. It is free, there aren't allot of sounds in the game, and it doesn't need allot of complicated game controls. While I don't have the original STFC source code any more I remember the source code in enough detail that creating it in Java or Python shouldn't be super hard. Cheers. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Thomas lost the source code for stfc because of several events and that is why he released it as freeware. When he updates the program he can only change the game sounds and such. - Original Message - From: "Che" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games > Thomas wrote: > It is true that most Mac users are running our games through Windows > virtual > machines, but as I stated in an earlier post that is nowhere near as good > as > playing the game that is natively supported by the os or run through > something like the Java runtime. > End quote > > Do you know this for a fact? I have a few users of Rail Racer running on > Mac and as far as I know it works quite well. I was under the impression > windows was running natively, not in an emulated mode, but I could be > totally off base there. > Given the low overhead of accessible games in general, I would think any > accessible game would run just fine in a windows environment running on > Macs, given todays processor speeds, but I haven't checked this for > myself. > I agree the envelope should be pushed with accessible games, and quite > hard, but given the overwhelming majority of windows users out there at > this > point in time, for me the R and D time is better spent making a windows > game > as fun and immerssive as possible. > But again, that is just me and my angle on things, if you decide to make > raceway or any other game cross platform I will be very interested in the > results, and I am sure other developers will as well.. > I am not sure how complex the conversion would be for your Star Trek > game, > but given that you already have the code for it, that might make a good > test > case, eh? > Later, > Che > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [Audyssey] Multiplatform Games
Thomas wrote: It is true that most Mac users are running our games through Windows virtual machines, but as I stated in an earlier post that is nowhere near as good as playing the game that is natively supported by the os or run through something like the Java runtime. End quote Do you know this for a fact? I have a few users of Rail Racer running on Mac and as far as I know it works quite well. I was under the impression windows was running natively, not in an emulated mode, but I could be totally off base there. Given the low overhead of accessible games in general, I would think any accessible game would run just fine in a windows environment running on Macs, given todays processor speeds, but I haven't checked this for myself. I agree the envelope should be pushed with accessible games, and quite hard, but given the overwhelming majority of windows users out there at this point in time, for me the R and D time is better spent making a windows game as fun and immerssive as possible. But again, that is just me and my angle on things, if you decide to make raceway or any other game cross platform I will be very interested in the results, and I am sure other developers will as well.. I am not sure how complex the conversion would be for your Star Trek game, but given that you already have the code for it, that might make a good test case, eh? Later, Che --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Audyssey] Multiplatform Games was Raceway
Hi Che and all, Well, USA Games is currently doing an informal survey on Mac and Linux gaming and we think that some sort of cross platform gaming would be valuable. Perhaps not every project, and maybe not even something as serious as Raceway or Rail Racer, but I think those markets are do for the kinds of games like Jim Kitchen puts out. The Mac Visionaries group and the Gnome Accessibility Project are two areas where support is growing, and providing more accessible games, applications, and tools for those platforms will drasticly improve those operating systems for prospective blind users who are looking for a non-Windows alternative. It is true that most Mac users are running our games through Windows virtual machines, but as I stated in an earlier post that is nowhere near as good as playing the game that is natively supported by the os or run through something like the Java runtime. How much impact it would have is something I should ask the Mac Visionaries list which is where all the Mac action seams to be now days. As for weather or not to go multiplatform I think that is in all respects a personal decision. As I have said many times in this day alone I've been using alternative operating systems like Linux for a number of years, and for myself alone going cross platform is a good idea. The only reason I am targeting Windows is that it is where the traditional markets are, but I want to expand out into the fringe markets and see what is out there for us as far as new and untouched markets. If you haven't listened to Michael Feir's latest podcast on Blind Cool Tech it kind of gets into this general idea. While the apps he points out are so so the basic message holds true. If you aren't willing to expand, explore outside of the triditional blind box, we won't grow and find out new things. Even things that were not made accessible but are so by accident or design. Your Rail Racer game is such a case where you have pushed new areas not really explored by blind programmers. You have introduced the mouse as a new gaming controller, introduced multiplayer gaming like never before, and you have pushed the market to new and until now unexplored gaming possibilities. Now, I think I am kind of doing the same thing except I am exploring how well games will do outside of the traditional core gaming comunity made up of mostly Windows only users. Obviously, before I actually ported something as complex as Raceway I should create a simple space Invaders shoot-m-up type game or something to see how well it works on Mac, Linux, and Windows and to get the basic concepts down for multiplatform gaming. However, I certainly believe it is something to research and explore. Che wrote: > I would do a survey before going through the trouble of cross developing > any accessible game. I'm afraid given the limited amount of Linux and Mac > users using accessible technology, it simply would not be worth the effort, > especially if you end up cutting out features to make it work on all > systems. > Regarding the mac users, the windows environment running on there works > just fine for accessible games from what I have heard, so I'm not sure how > much impact a mac version would have at any rate. > I agree with Karl that there are a lot of folks out there waiting on > raceway, and I'm sure over 90 percent of them are ready to roll with > windows. > As a developer, I have no intentions of going cross platform, I am quite > happy with the response I've gotten from windows users, but if I were doing > raceway, I would make it as good as possible for windows, and leave the > cross platform experiment for another game down the road after gathering > more info about linux and mac users. > I think it is a noble idea, but one that will probably be dissapointing in > the final analysis. > Whatever your decision Thomas, I wish you luck with it. > Later, > Che > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
