Advertisement using Apache lists
In these days I've seen messages from [EMAIL PROTECTED] advertising commercial support for Apache software on this list (http://www.multitask.com.au/default.html?page=mtSOS) and on individual project lists http://sos.multitask.com.au/QuickPlace/sos/main.nsf/h_Toc/07633801fb8c6459ca 256bb3001722b1/?OpenDocument . I think that this is a very nice thing, since IMHO commercial support is vital for Apache software. I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. Are there any special guidelines on this? Are there any suggestions on this topic? -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
| | In these days I've seen messages from [EMAIL PROTECTED] advertising | commercial support for Apache software on this list | (http://www.multitask.com.au/default.html?page=mtSOS) and on individual | project lists | http://sos.multitask.com.au/QuickPlace/sos/main.nsf/h_Toc/07633801fb8c6459ca | 256bb3001722b1/?OpenDocument . | | I think that this is a very nice thing, since IMHO commercial support is | vital for Apache software. | | I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support | Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I've just been taking the tack that I'd place any announcements where there most appropriate - e.g. tomcat stuff on the tomcat lists etc. | Are there any special guidelines on this? | | Are there any suggestions on this topic? I'd love to know more too... -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I'm not a committer on any projects so can anyone else try to get this going? It shouldn't be too hard. Alex Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project Activity
Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. d. This makes me think of all the projects on SourceForge that shoot up high into the project ratings, with a high activity percentile, just because they turn the news function into a message board. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project Activity
On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote: Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the same reason. I have found that higher healthy activity is actually indicated by small localized changes. This is not going to be captured in a simple count the commits and note the committer style approach. -- Cheers, Peter Donald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Project Activity
I don't really think project activity can be calculated from code changes alone. I would say project activity should cover the complete process of setting up requirements for the software, designing, implementing, testing and using it. If Jakarta would have a structured software development process this would be easy to do, but because of the all the diverse ways of coming to a release this is hard to do I guess. But maybe some milestones/checks can be put up which could be measured (e.g. in respect with time between the milestones, time between a bugreport and a bugfix). This way you might create a couple of vague notions like: *time-to-release (short/medium/long) *stableness (amount of bugs reported, hihg/medium/low) *userbase (large/medium/small) *amount of minor releases (bugfix release) per month or year. Those kind of stats might give a user way more information than the amount of commits or changes to a certain file. I wouldn't even want to know ;-). Project activity measurements only create unnecessary competion IMHO. In Jakarta's case projects are rejected anyway if they don't have a certain activity. Alef -Original Message- From: Peter Donald [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, 13 May 2002 12:31 To: Jakarta General List Subject: Re: Project Activity On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote: Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the same reason. I have found that higher healthy activity is actually indicated by small localized changes. This is not going to be captured in a simple count the commits and note the committer style approach. -- Cheers, Peter Donald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. --Jeff I'm not a committer on any projects so can anyone else try to get this going? It shouldn't be too hard. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
From: Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists. How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to general lists with [ANN]? This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list, while other users get the ANN topics automatically. This could be done also with an [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, and [ADV] as Jeff suggests. Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
At 13:13 13/05/2002, Jeff Turner wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use the announcements mailing lists. It is really about having a place where we can discuss these issues which are welcome no where else. Alex Openweb Analysts Ltd, London: Software For Complex Websites http://www.OWAL.co.uk/ Free Consultancy for London Companies thinking of Open Source Software. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13, Jeff Turner wrote: I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. Perhaps we could also prefix their messages with [TROLL], [SPAM], [WHINING] or [EGO] where appropriate ? :) -- Cheers, Peter Donald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Have never played with any mailing list software myself but would it be possible to bounce cross posts? That way people would soon learn that cross posts are not appreciated without having to interrupt the subscribers! Just thinking out loud... Rob - Original Message - From: Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 1:21 PM Subject: Re: Advertisement using Apache lists On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13, Jeff Turner wrote: I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. Perhaps we could also prefix their messages with [TROLL], [SPAM], [WHINING] or [EGO] where appropriate ? :) -- Cheers, Peter Donald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 02:04:20PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: .. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists. How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to general lists with [ANN]? To spell out this idea: any mail that gets sent to announcements@jakarta is forwarded to general@ with [ANN] prepended to it's subject (possibly stripping any existing [ANN] variants). Same with [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's kinda nice. In addition to munging the subject line, it could add an X-Jakarta-Announce: or X-Jakarta-Advert: header, which people could filter on. All assuming that people *want* Jakarta-related adverts and announcements on general@. I get the impression that some do, a few don't, and most don't care. --Jeff This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list, while other users get the ANN topics automatically. This could be done also with an [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, and [ADV] as Jeff suggests. Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project Activity
Agreed! Danny Angus wrote: Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. d. This makes me think of all the projects on SourceForge that shoot up high into the project ratings, with a high activity percentile, just because they turn the news function into a message board. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Hi, Perhas a better idea would be to get some space on main website where people could advertise that they supply support for various Jakarta projects or whatever. That way people have a central location to go to get info on commercial support and all that. Theres a whole bunch of people that do support/contract/consulting on jakarta stuff and it could end up extremely noisy if done on list. I would prefer that general remain about community/organisational/etc issues across the whole jakarta project. Keep noise signal to noise ratio as high as we can I say. On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:48, Jeff Turner wrote: Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists. How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to general lists with [ANN]? To spell out this idea: any mail that gets sent to announcements@jakarta is forwarded to general@ with [ANN] prepended to it's subject (possibly stripping any existing [ANN] variants). Same with [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's kinda nice. In addition to munging the subject line, it could add an X-Jakarta-Announce: or X-Jakarta-Advert: header, which people could filter on. All assuming that people *want* Jakarta-related adverts and announcements on general@. I get the impression that some do, a few don't, and most don't care. --Jeff This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list, while other users get the ANN topics automatically. This could be done also with an [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, and [ADV] as Jeff suggests. Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) -- Cheers, Peter Donald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: From: Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists. How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to general lists with [ANN]? -1 - I want announcements not ads. This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list, while other users get the ANN topics automatically. This could be done also with an [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, and [ADV] as Jeff suggests. Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[LOL] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13, Jeff Turner wrote: I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. Perhaps we could also prefix their messages with [TROLL], [SPAM], [WHINING] or [EGO] where appropriate ? :) LOL -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:20:24PM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 13:13 13/05/2002, Jeff Turner wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use the announcements mailing lists. It is really about having a place where we can discuss these issues which are welcome no where else. Ah right. these issues being, commercial entities supporting Apache software, aka How to make a buck off Jakarta. Cool :) I'd subscribe. The Open Source vs. Paid Work conflict sucks. Maybe start an egroups list, or even just collect a list of people to Cc. Mail weekly summaries to general@ to maintain interest. Then if it's still around in 1 month, ping infrastructure@ and beg :) --Jeff Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
God yes, I need more spam! Especially targeted spam. Can we make sure those [ADV] Mobutu in South Africa wants to send you 10,000,000 for safe keeping get through to the lists? Well at least if Mobutu agrees to support Apache software as well as send me 10mil? Sun Micro, has a page of here are Java companies -- lets innovate it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they are there for. This does a few things: 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software (not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people here including myself as I like working with GOOD software) 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta, won't annoy people who might otherwise use them. 3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on. 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on. -Andy Jeff Turner wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 02:04:20PM +0200, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: .. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. I've noticed too that the annoumcement list stuff gets CCd to other lists. How about having all content sent to that list be automatically CCd to general lists with [ANN]? To spell out this idea: any mail that gets sent to announcements@jakarta is forwarded to general@ with [ANN] prepended to it's subject (possibly stripping any existing [ANN] variants). Same with [EMAIL PROTECTED] That's kinda nice. In addition to munging the subject line, it could add an X-Jakarta-Announce: or X-Jakarta-Advert: header, which people could filter on. All assuming that people *want* Jakarta-related adverts and announcements on general@. I get the impression that some do, a few don't, and most don't care. --Jeff This way if one wants only announcements, he can subscribe to that list, while other users get the ANN topics automatically. This could be done also with an [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, and [ADV] as Jeff suggests. Another result of this is having separate mail history for these lists. -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
From: Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:20:24PM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use the announcements mailing lists. It is really about having a place where we can discuss these issues which are welcome no where else. Ah right. these issues being, commercial entities supporting Apache software, aka How to make a buck off Jakarta. Cool :) I'd subscribe. The Open Source vs. Paid Work conflict sucks. Maybe start an egroups list, or even just collect a list of people to Cc. Mail weekly summaries to general@ to maintain interest. Then if it's still around in 1 month, ping infrastructure@ and beg :) [EMAIL PROTECTED] The list has just been created and will be available shortly. If it generates intrest, we will ask to put it here at Jakarta. If not, heck, we tried ;-) -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
+1 to all of that. - Leo Sun Micro, has a page of here are Java companies -- lets innovate it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they are there for. This does a few things: 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software (not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people here including myself as I like working with GOOD software) 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta, won't annoy people who might otherwise use them. 3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on. 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
At 14:06 13/05/2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they are there for. Don't get hung up on adverts. We need somewhere to discuss commercial issues - and there is no apache forum where this is allowed. If there was a forum/ mailing list for such matters then you could all say that that is where to post adverts to and *no where else*. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
On Mon, 2002-05-13 at 15:44, Alex McLintock wrote: At 14:06 13/05/2002, Andrew C. Oliver wrote: Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they are there for. Don't get hung up on adverts. We need somewhere to discuss commercial issues - and there is no apache forum where this is allowed. If there was a forum/ mailing list for such matters then you could all say that that is where to post adverts to and *no where else*. I can see you need somewhere to discuss commercial issues. I cannot see why such a forum would have to be an apache forum. We can include a link on the page Andrew is going to make to such a forum in an external location. I am all for commercial use and support of apache products, however I do not think that facilities to enable this commercial use and support should be provided by apache itself. twisted analogy: few people that work on the linux kernel have a problem with red hat; however, I think they'd not like it that much if kernel.org were to host a forum for use by red hat and the like. cheers, - Leo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
I think you should make it clear what we're talking about here. Engaging in commercial ventures on a list is something I might even be interested in. Receiving the spam of the day from company X whose latest angle is Apache support, is not. Jeff Turner wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 01:20:24PM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 13:13 13/05/2002, Jeff Turner wrote: On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. It isn't just about announcements - if it were then we would just use the announcements mailing lists. It is really about having a place where we can discuss these issues which are welcome no where else. Ah right. these issues being, commercial entities supporting Apache software, aka How to make a buck off Jakarta. Cool :) I'd subscribe. The Open Source vs. Paid Work conflict sucks. Maybe start an egroups list, or even just collect a list of people to Cc. Mail weekly summaries to general@ to maintain interest. Then if it's still around in 1 month, ping infrastructure@ and beg :) --Jeff Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
I completely agree with that sentiment. I think it ROCKS if you're able to practice Apache where you work and get paid for it. I hope the list Ken started takes off in a different manner than the subscribe to be advertised to that I think it might. I'd like to see more like a world-wide networking list take place...fat chance but its a nice thought. Henri Yandell wrote: +1 from me. While it's nice to see committers who are able to commercially work with the experience they gain/use here, it would be very demeaning to the list for every company who are using jsp/servlets/other to post their consultant services to the general list. Hen On 13 May 2002, Leo Simons wrote: +1 to all of that. - Leo Sun Micro, has a page of here are Java companies -- lets innovate it and put up a similar Jakarta page -- Here are companies and folks who support Apache Jakarta software. I volunteer. Secondly, lets Make a rule NOT to post advertising to the mail lists, that is NOT what they are there for. This does a few things: 1. Provides a good rationale to companies to use Apache Jakarta Software (not a specific goal of the group but a personal goal of several people here including myself as I like working with GOOD software) 2. Gives those companies a place to post thats relevant to Jakarta, won't annoy people who might otherwise use them. 3. Give those companies a high visability web page to advertise on. 4. God I don't need more spam. My spam filter entries will one day reach the limit on the number of strings I can match on. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
From: Andrew C. Oliver [EMAIL PROTECTED] I completely agree with that sentiment. I think it ROCKS if you're able to practice Apache where you work and get paid for it. I hope the list Ken started takes off in a different manner than the subscribe to be advertised to that I think it might. This is exactly why I started it. It's a test, to see if something more that Get X product, it rocks can be achieved. I honestly hope it will; if not, we will have the demonstration that such a thing is impractical, and no more need to suppose it could be a good idea. It's there now. You want to make it work? Join. krysalis-jakarta-adv mailing list @ www.krysalis.org -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[METOO] Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
On Mon, 13 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2002 22:13, Jeff Turner wrote: I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. Perhaps we could also prefix their messages with [TROLL], [SPAM], [WHINING] or [EGO] where appropriate ? :) +1 :-) Costin -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project Activity
On Mon, 13 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote: Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the same reason. Breaking one big commit into many commits is not bad. It makes things easier to review, the commit comment can describe much better what has been done in the file. Putting a 'ranking' on commiter's activity is however very bad. Some are working full time ( as part of their job ), some are using the little free time they find ( or sleep less ). I think the second category deserves a lot of apreciation, even if they may have fewer commits. Costin I have found that higher healthy activity is actually indicated by small localized changes. This is not going to be captured in a simple count the commits and note the committer style approach. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Advertisement using Apache lists
Jeff, AFAIK announce@ is for Jakarta announcements, not external projects. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Jeff Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/13/02 10:13 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Advertisement using Apache lists On Mon, May 13, 2002 at 09:54:48AM +0100, Alex McLintock wrote: At 09:02 13/05/2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote: I would like to encourage information about commercial entities that support Apache software, but I really have no clue about how it should be done. I too am setting up an organisation in the UK to help support Apache and other OSS software. I suggest that the first (and simplest) thing to do would be to setup a top level apache mailing list where it is ok to advertise oneself, one's company, or to advertise that you need support. I doubt a separate list would work. We've got an announcements@ list and everyone still cc's announcements to general@. Perhaps we should just adopt a simple subject line convention, [ADV] for adverts, to go with [ANN] for announcements. --Jeff I'm not a committer on any projects so can anyone else try to get this going? It shouldn't be too hard. Alex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Project Activity
Many commits without description and many cosmetic changes. Hey now, my commits are coming through with no message because of a bug in NetBeans. It's got nothing to do with the stats. Some of those 'cosmetic' changes like checkstyle issues are LONG overdue. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/13/02 10:00 PM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Project Activity From: Peter Donald [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote: Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the same reason. This is exactly what has happened to turbine-maven just after the statistics were made. Many commits without description and many cosmetic changes. Measuring how well a project is doing with these stats is nonsense. There is no semantics in numbers. Say you are having tons of letters from angry users that claim that your product sucks. Is the number of posts still a health indicator? Maybe of the mailing list software ;-) -- Nicola Ken Barozzi [EMAIL PROTECTED] - verba volant, scripta manent - (discussions get forgotten, just code remains) - -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EGO] Re: Project Activity
FWIW, there is no 'ranking' in the cvs activity report, unless you consider alphabetical order ranking. But I'm not going to complain about people who would otherwise do nothing doing some of the 'cosmetic' stuff like documentation/javadoc etc. And everyone seems to have ignored the file activity report - which helps to find code that is unstable. -- dIon Gillard, Multitask Consulting Work: http://www.multitask.com.au Developers: http://adslgateway.multitask.com.au/developers [EMAIL PROTECTED] 05/14/02 01:33 AM Please respond to Jakarta General List To: Jakarta General List [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject:Re: Project Activity On Mon, 13 May 2002, Peter Donald wrote: On Mon, 13 May 2002 20:17, Danny Angus wrote: Sometimes lists are where the activity is, commits alone don't credit the essential design and planning effort put in by users commiters and non-commiters that shapes the product and maps its progress. Agreed - even worse. Sometimes after these activity meters turn up you get committers breaking up one commit into many commits, presumably to push their activity level up. You also get the many typographic changes for much the same reason. Breaking one big commit into many commits is not bad. It makes things easier to review, the commit comment can describe much better what has been done in the file. Putting a 'ranking' on commiter's activity is however very bad. Some are working full time ( as part of their job ), some are using the little free time they find ( or sleep less ). I think the second category deserves a lot of apreciation, even if they may have fewer commits. Costin I have found that higher healthy activity is actually indicated by small localized changes. This is not going to be captured in a simple count the commits and note the committer style approach. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
where to send questions about Other Classes
What's the appropriate list for questions about stuff in the org.apache.xml.serialize package? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: where to send questions about Other Classes
On Tue, 14 May 2002 11:13, Jeff Barrett wrote: What's the appropriate list for questions about stuff in the org.apache.xml.serialize package? Looks like something from xml.apache.org so I would check over there. Probably something from xalan so maybe try xalan-user ?? -- Cheers, Peter Donald -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
