[gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[Nikos Chantziaras]

On 03/04/16 20:34, Michael Palimaka wrote:

Hi,

KDE team intends to stabilise Plasma 5 shortly, so please review the
accompanying news items.


There's many packages that warn me about not having KDE installed when 
upgrading to Plasma 5. It's in a quite accusatory tone even:


  WARNING! Your system configuration does not contain
  "kde-apps/kdebase-runtime-meta".
  With this setting you are unsupported by KDE team.
  All missing features you report for misc packages will be
  probably ignored or closed as INVALID.

I think should be fixed, or if not then at least be addressed in the 
news item because I find the warning very confusing.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[M. J. Everitt]

On 07/04/16 01:45, Jonathan Callen wrote:
> On 04/06/2016 07:46 AM, M. J. Everitt wrote:
>
> > In the event you're not explicitly using a desktop or KDE desktop
> > profile, can you provide a summary of the changes that should be
> > made manually when switching the the kde-plasma/* ebuilds please? I
> > can probably handle a display manager change over a network of
> > systems, but making a sensible transition to Plasma5 over many
> > systems could be a trial if a small step is overlooked Thanks!
>
> > Michael/veremit.
>
>
>
> The list of things that the plasma profiles add to the system can be
> found in ${PORTDIR}/profiles/targets/desktop/plasma/.  The
> make.defaults and package.use in there show which USE flags a default
> plasma install would need (in addition to the standard desktop profile
> and the flags enabled by default in the ebuilds).  Note that most of
> the changes are either a) disabling things in some old KDE 4 stuff
> that hasn't been ported completely, to just have the bits still
> required on a mostly-ported system, and b) choosing which
> implementation (Qt4/Qt5) on packages that require you to choose (the
> profile ends up enabling USE="qt4 qt5" for most packages, this turns
> off one of them for some packages).
>
Thanks, I'll dig over those and see if the wiki page can be tweaked
slightly :)

MJE



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[gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[Jonathan Callen]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

On 04/06/2016 07:46 AM, M. J. Everitt wrote:
> 
> In the event you're not explicitly using a desktop or KDE desktop 
> profile, can you provide a summary of the changes that should be
> made manually when switching the the kde-plasma/* ebuilds please? I
> can probably handle a display manager change over a network of
> systems, but making a sensible transition to Plasma5 over many
> systems could be a trial if a small step is overlooked Thanks!
> 
> Michael/veremit.
> 
> 

The list of things that the plasma profiles add to the system can be
found in ${PORTDIR}/profiles/targets/desktop/plasma/.  The
make.defaults and package.use in there show which USE flags a default
plasma install would need (in addition to the standard desktop profile
and the flags enabled by default in the ebuilds).  Note that most of
the changes are either a) disabling things in some old KDE 4 stuff
that hasn't been ported completely, to just have the bits still
required on a mostly-ported system, and b) choosing which
implementation (Qt4/Qt5) on packages that require you to choose (the
profile ends up enabling USE="qt4 qt5" for most packages, this turns
off one of them for some packages).

- -- 
Jonathan Callen
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[gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[Michael Palimaka]

On 04/04/16 07:57, Richard Yao wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 04, 2016 at 03:34:07AM +1000, Michael Palimaka wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> KDE team intends to stabilise Plasma 5 shortly, so please review the
>> accompanying news items.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Title: KDE Plasma 5 Upgrade
>> Author: Michael Palimaka 
>> Content-Type: text/plain
>> Posted: 2016-04-02
>> Revision: 1
>> News-Item-Format: 1.0
>> Display-If-Installed: kde-base/plasma-workspace:4
>>
>> KDE Workspaces 4.11 has reached end of life and is no longer supported
>> by upstream. It is therefore recommended for all users to upgrade to
>> KDE Plasma 5.
> 
> Did you mean 4.14? 4.11 should have been EOL a long time ago.

There is no KDE Workspaces 4.14. It continued on as 4.11.xy while the
rest of KDE bumped to 4.13 and then 4.14.

Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[Mike Gilbert]

On Mon, Apr 4, 2016 at 1:55 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.dun...@cox.net> wrote:
> Michael Palimaka posted on Mon, 04 Apr 2016 05:23:03 +1000 as excerpted:
>
>> The default in KDE 4 was KDM, with lightdm and sddm also supported.
>>
>> We included information about migrating away from KDM because it's no
>> longer developed or supported and in some cases fails to work with
>> Plasma 5 at all.
>>
>> lightdm continues to work fine with Plasma 5 so there's no special need
>> to replace it.
>
> For clarity, then, why not add a single sentence similar to this (reword
> if appropriate):
>
> KDE 4 also supported lightdm and sddm, and users configured to use those
> display managers can continue to use them without reconfiguration.

You could also use XDM or GDM to launch KDE, but I don't think there's
any need to state that in this news item. We only need to make a
suggestion for people using the obsolete KDM.

[gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[Duncan]

Michael Palimaka posted on Mon, 04 Apr 2016 05:23:03 +1000 as excerpted:

> The default in KDE 4 was KDM, with lightdm and sddm also supported.
> 
> We included information about migrating away from KDM because it's no
> longer developed or supported and in some cases fails to work with
> Plasma 5 at all.
> 
> lightdm continues to work fine with Plasma 5 so there's no special need
> to replace it.

For clarity, then, why not add a single sentence similar to this (reword 
if appropriate):

KDE 4 also supported lightdm and sddm, and users configured to use those 
display managers can continue to use them without reconfiguration.


Also, a word for users who can't use a desktop/* profile at all, because 
they are for instance using a no-multilib (or x32 or hardened or 
whatever) profile and the desktop profiles aren't available as options 
there, would be appropriate.  Because right now you (as the gentoo/kde 
project) are pretty much leaving these users who can't or simply don't 
want to use the plasma profile, for whatever reason, to their own devices 
out in the unguided cold.

Tho in the news item I'd suggest simply referring them to the upgrade 
guide, and ensure the subject is covered in more detail there.  
Unfortunately, it's not covered there at all, ATM.

That "more detail" in the upgrade guide could be to simply say to check 
the USE flags in (default path)
/usr/portage/profiles/targets/desktop/plasma/make.defaults, and consider 
setting similar USE flags manually.  And similarly the package.use file 
in the same location, for individual packages.

Whether and how you want to describe the effect of policykit in 
use.force, since these users will obviously not be getting that force as 
they can't use that profile, is up to you.  It's already in the 
make.defaults USE list as covered above.  Maybe that's enough.


Meanwhile, one final sentence referring back to the upgrade guide if 
there are problems may also be useful:

The upgrade guide contains further troubleshooting and solutions hints, 
should you run into problems.


(Much as I hate servantware such as skype, the hint on that may well be 
totally unintuitive for many of its gentoo/kde users, for instance.  BTW, 
is that still valid advice given the plasma-desktop sni embedding, now?)

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman

[gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[Michael Palimaka]

On 04/04/16 05:06, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Michael Palimaka  
> wrote:
>>
>> If you normally use KDM to launch Plasma, note that it is no longer
>> supported.
>> Upstream recommends x11-misc/sddm instead which is pulled in by
>> plasma-meta by
>> default. To switch, edit /etc/conf.d/xdm and update DISPLAYMANAGER.
>>
> 
> Didn't we previously recommend using lightdm?  I'm sure migrating is
> trivial but perhaps some kind of note about this might be useful?  I
> suspect that the instructions for migrating from lightdm->sddm are the
> same as kdm->sddm.
> 

The default in KDE 4 was KDM, with lightdm and sddm also supported.

We included information about migrating away from KDM because it's no
longer developed or supported and in some cases fails to work with
Plasma 5 at all.

lightdm continues to work fine with Plasma 5 so there's no special need
to replace it.

[gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[Michael Palimaka]

On 04/04/16 04:48, Mike Gilbert wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Michael Palimaka  
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> KDE team intends to stabilise Plasma 5 shortly, so please review the
>> accompanying news items.
> 
> Very exciting, nice work!
> 
>> If you normally use KDM to launch Plasma, note that it is no longer
>> supported.
>> Upstream recommends x11-misc/sddm instead which is pulled in by
>> plasma-meta by
>> default. To switch, edit /etc/conf.d/xdm and update DISPLAYMANAGER.
> 
> That only works for OpenRC users. systemd users should run the
> following after installing sddm to adjust the display-manager.service
> symlink:
> 
> systemctl reenable sddm.service
> 
> 

I was hoping someone would chime in with the systemd command. :)

I have updated that paragraph to read:

If you normally use KDM to launch Plasma, note that it is no longer
supported.
Upstream recommends x11-misc/sddm instead which is pulled in by
plasma-meta by
default. OpenRC users should edit /etc/conf.d/xdm and update DISPLAYMANAGER.
Systemd users should run: systemctl reenable sddm.service

[gentoo-dev] Re: News item: upgrading to Plasma 5

[Michael Palimaka]

On 04/04/16 04:34, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>> On Mon, 4 Apr 2016, Michael Palimaka wrote:
> 
>> News-Item-Format: 1.0
>> Display-If-Installed: kde-base/plasma-workspace:4
> 
> Slot dependencies in Display-If-Installed are not allowed in news item
> format 1.0. You should use format 2.0 (which allows EAPI 5 dependency
> specifications) if you need them.
> 
> Ulrich
> 

Thanks, we don't actually need the slot dependency so I just dropped it.