Re: [gentoo-user] cpu flags / USE flags / compiler flags
Hm. Clear, brief, instructive. Smells a lot like a mini-HOWTO. On 9/3/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There are CPU flags and there are USE flags. Some of them have the same names, and that may confuse you. It works like this... 1) Get a listing of your cpu's flags in /proc/cpuinfo 2) Check against the list of supported flags in gcc for you cpu, and add them to CFLAGS 3) Check http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/use-index.xml for a list of valid USE flags, and include any that show up in /proc/cpuinfo 4) Repeat step 3) with /usr/portage/profiles/use.local.desc for any programs you're emerging. There doesn't seem to be anything special on your pentium4, but my AMD64 not only has mmx and 3dnow, it also has mmxext and 3dnowext. mplayer can take advantage of them. I include them in the /etc/portage/package.use entry for media-video/mplayer. I'll assume that you're using gcc 3.3.5. In that case, the place to look for CPU flag options is... http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.3.5/gcc/i386-and-x86_002d64-Options.html#i386-and-x86_002d64-Options That list shows pentium4, mmx, sse, and sse2. Also, if you have *ANY* version of sse available, you can improve performance by running floating point math via sse, rather than 387 instructions. I recommend... CFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium4 -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/use-index.xml shows mmx and sse as valid USE flags, so you can include them in USE. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] cpu flags / USE flags / compiler flags
On Sunday 04 September 2005 05:27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That list shows pentium4, mmx, sse, and sse2. Also, if you have *ANY* version of sse available, you can improve performance by running floating point math via sse, rather than 387 instructions. I recommend... CFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium4 -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse emm. I would not do this. -mfpmath=sse seems to be slower than -fpmath=387 http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436p=5 has the numbers/made the experience. It seems, that gcc is not he best optimizer in the world ;) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Nautilus - open in same window
On 19:47 Sat 03 Sep , Mark Knecht wrote: Hi, I feel bad asking for this info again. Holly or someone else here told me what app to run a year ago but I don't seem to be able to find my notes anymore. The effects of age I think... I want to edit Gnome's configuration so that Nautilus opens new folders in the same window but I'm not finding any config editor on my machine who's name makes sense to fix this. What's it called these days? Thanks in advance, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list I am not sure if you can adjust it via Nautilus preferences... Anyway, the program you are lookin for seems to be gconf-editor (emerge -av gconf-editor)... cheers -- [sinatura] A ouvir (mpd): Metallica - Enter Sandman GPG KeyID:0x9D2FD6C8 - http://tinyurl.com/79lrs [\sinatura] pgpXZQYzLo7to.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] gtkrc-2.0 file
What was the original location? On 0:45:07 September 04, 2005 LostSon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello I seem to have lost my gtkrc-2.0 file could someone send me theirs, thanks. LostSon -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] gtkrc-2.0 file
/home/.gtkrc-2.0 On Sun, 2005-09-04 at 09:04 +0100, JM Fraser wrote: What was the original location? On 0:45:07 September 04, 2005 LostSon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello I seem to have lost my gtkrc-2.0 file could someone send me theirs, thanks. LostSon -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- LostSon http://www.lostsonsvault.org -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: OT: Compiling non-portage app for gdb
* Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] [05-09-03 11:47]: Hi, Can someone suggest how a non-programmer can compile a non-portage app to run in gdb so that I can get a trace of a segfault? I have the code. It compiles and segfaults on my AMD64 machine. I'd like to send the developers some debug data. You should have shell's CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS environment variables declared. Those variables are being read and parsed by gcc upon some manual compiling of source code. They should contain gcc's -ggdb argument which actually tells gcc to build a code with debugging symbols. -- Daniel Vrcic -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE fails to start when coupled with firewall...
I have set up a set of rules with iptables so that the default policy of all tables is to block all communication if it's not specifically allowed in the given table. Now I'm wondering why KDE doesn't start when those rules are applicable. It always stops where it should be initializing services... What does it need the network for and why can't it stop probing if access is forbidden? ...And most of all, what could I do to make it all work? It makes sense to log the packets you drop to see what holes you may need to open in your firewall. As a minimum you have to allow traffic through lo interface. You may find a bunch of howtos and examples on http://www.iptables.org HTH Sasha -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Postfix, LDAP, courier-imap, how do i get them to talk to each other?
Hi Jose, That was exactly what i was thinking too, but i solved it a bit differently now. I used maildrop for local mailbox delivery, and i finally got the beast running. Although it is still not working the way i wanted, it is working never the less. S pozdravom / Best regards jakub krajcovic On Sep 3, 2005, at 10:58 AM, Jose Gonzalez Gomez wrote: Sometime ago I had some installation with that software and a similar setup, although I don't remember the exact details. Anyway I seem to remember that the mail wasn't delivered to the home directory of every user, as it's a bit tricky to do so: the MTA should have write access to all the home directories. I'm currently using Cyrus IMAP and delivering mail through LMTP. Anyway, you may treat your users as virtual and store the mail anywhere else. Keep in mind that storing mail in the user's home directory is intended for systems where users access mail directly in their file system (as they used some time ago) instead of going through a POP3/IMAP server, as it's mainly done nowadays. Moreover, you're not giving your users shell access, so you don't have to worry for giving direct access to mail files (unless you're mounting those directories from anywhere else). HTH, Jose -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo on Thumbdrive
On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 14:45:23 -0300, Norberto Bensa wrote: more like three months if you put a frequently written directory, like /tmp or /var/log, on a flash device. You can use UNIONFS for those ;) That makes it less portable, but it is a solution. Anyway, unless we're talking about different technologies, one of my USB drives is working fine and it is more than a year old. And I've used it like crazy (both read _and_ writes.) Flash memory has a definite write limit (no read lmiit AFAIK). It's around 100,000 writes PER CELL. So if you use it as a normal filesystem, writing and deleting files, as it was intended to be used, you won't have much of a problem. Each write is likely to be to a different cell. but if you have something that continually writes to the same place, you'll soon kill it. Read the recent thread on slow usb storage transfers, for an extreme example, the way the latest kernels update the FAT for each block write when a drive is mounted sync. Until I read this, I thought I'd been unlucky when a Crucial 1GB drive died after only a few months use. It turns out that repeatedly copying large files to the drive killed the area containing the FAT. -- Neil Bothwick I don't suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it. pgpgd0yNFWxRk.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
Mark Knecht schreef: To become a Linux user is a commitment. People don't make new commitments lightly, and making a light commitment to Linux is doomed to failure. It's far too hard to use. This is a common 'perception', and yet again I have to object to it, because it's *wrong* (not for the reasons you think), but it's nonetheless wiping the floor with us (much in the same way that the common perception that the world was flat wiped the floor with many early potential explorers). rant Yes, becoming a Linux user is a commitment. I'm with you that far. But then saying that in combination with it's far too hard to use, implying that it should be easy to use is a contradiction in terms. Operating a vehicle is also a commitment, and you have to learn to drive a car/truck/motorcycle-- you even have to learn to ride a bike. A bike is easier to use than a car, and a car is easier to use than a bus (I suppose), but in fact none of these vehicles is really easy to use and half the tools created to make it easier to use actually make it harder (how many people have trouble using a GPS system, for example?). In fact, the only 'easy' way to use a car is to get someone else to do all the hard work of driving on your behalf, since we do not yet have mental-telepathy-controlled vehicles, or transport beams ala Star Trek. Yes, of course, once you've learned to drive, it's (pretty) easy to do, but does the fact that it's easy once you've learned it mean that you can judge the task as objectively 'easy'? I don't think so-- if you have to learn how to do it, it's automatically 'hard' (or at the very least, not easy). Especially since, continuing with this example, learning one variant of how to perform the total operation does not enable you to 'automatically' perform any other variant knowledgeably (you can drive a car, but you can't drive a bus or a motorcycle, or an 18-wheeler). That suggests to me --because of the limits of the human animal, and because of the current design of vehicles-- that operating a vehicle can not ever be considered an 'easy' task, notwithstanding that many people are able to do so. Which brings us to 'commitment', proving my point. You don't make 'commitments' to tasks that are easy; you don't have to. You don't have to 'commit' to 'taking a cookie and eating it', because that's easy-- unless of course you have an eating disorder, in which case you do, because 'eating' is now no longer easy, but hard, due to your illness. *OPERATING A COMPUTER IS NOT EASY.* That's just all there is to it. The current design of computers is like a Neanderthal stone axe, for Pete's sake. It's not like a stone axe is not useful, and certainly it's better than your bare hands for chopping down a tree, but it's a long way from a gas-powered chainsaw, which is itself a long way from something like a (back to Star Trek) replicator, which would provide the result (wood, in this example), without even destroying the original source (a tree). Windows is designed with the premise that this fundamental truth should be concealed from 'users' at all costs (they've even abused monopoly power in an effort to promote the perception that using a computer is easy; yes, of course surfing all of the non-compliant sites with *IE* is 'easy, especially if you make sure that the non-compliance is built in by your free-for-the-asking design kit, fold your browser (which of course knows all the tricks) into the OS so that most 'average users' will just use it by default, and bump the competitors out of the market so that 'not-so-average' users won't wonder just what's up with why they can't view thus and so site with X browser, but can with Y(our) browser. Linux, on the other hand, doesn't see that there's anything to hide-- possibly because it was originally meant for server admins, who of course already know that operating a computer is a complex task. Now, of course, the community is all undecided about whether to break the news 'gently' to the hoped-for migrating Windows users (which is a whole sub-argument as to how to do that, or what it even means), or whether to just fling 'em in the water and let $DEITY sort 'em out. But just because Microsoft says that operating a computer is easy does not make it so-- and may I just point out that operating Windows is *not* easy either; leaving aside the idea that a complete reformat and reinstall is an 'easier' solution to something going wrong than editing a text file, icons and associating icons with specific programs and understanding the whole concept of files and applications is all *learned behaviour*-- thus, by definition, not 'easy'. So how is changing one *operating system* to another supposed to be an easier task than the global task of operating the computer in the first place? I mean, please. It's a commitment, yes (if only because in order to learn a behaviour, you must commit to learning and retaining what you learn), and when is commitment ever easy? Light
Re: [gentoo-user] Nautilus - open in same window
Mark Knecht schreef: Hi, I feel bad asking for this info again. Holly or someone else here told me what app to run a year ago but I don't seem to be able to find my notes anymore. The effects of age I think... I want to edit Gnome's configuration so that Nautilus opens new folders in the same window but I'm not finding any config editor on my machine who's name makes sense to fix this. What's it called these days? Thanks in advance, Mark Previously, you had to: gconf-editor=apps=nautilus=preferences=check 'Always use browser' .. and you can still do that. But now, you can also just use the Preferences in Nautilus itself: BehaviorTab The Behavior tab allows you to specify that Nautilus should Always open in browser windows. If you check this option, opening a folder displays the directory's contents in the current window. This behavior may be more familiar to those users accustomed to using the Start Here icon. You can also choose to include a delete option that bypases the Trash bin. Essentially, you want to turn off the Spatial Nautilus function (which opens every folder in a new window, because somehow that's supposed to make more sense to people), and return to the 'old' behaviour (browser), which is what this does (because so many people did not like the new behaviour, and objected to it only being changeable in gconf-editor, which is not the most intuitive of tools). HTH, Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Faulty IDE ribbon?
Hi All,
Just checking before I buy a new ribbon, that there is nothing more sinister
happening with my secondary IDE controller. Suddenly and with no activity
on my secondary IDE controller there's a noise as if my /dev/hdc (8G ATA
drive) and /dev/hdd (CDWR) are reinitialised - i.e. the mechanical noises
usually observed when the machine is switched on and the BIOS probes the
devices on booting.
Both devices are not mounted and there is no media in the CDWR. This is
what dmesg shows:
=
hdc: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x61
hdc: DMA timeout error
hdc: dma timeout error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: task_in_intr: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error }
hdc: task_in_intr: error=0x04 { DriveStatusError }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: task_in_intr: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error }
[...snip]
hdd: DMA disabled
ide1: reset: success
hdc: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x21
hdc: DMA timeout error
hdc: dma timeout error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x21
hdc: DMA timeout error
hdc: dma timeout error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x21
hdc: DMA timeout error
hdc: dma timeout error: status=0x80 { Busy }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: DMA disabled
ide1: reset: success
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: ATAPI reset complete
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: ATAPI reset complete
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: drive_cmd: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
hdc: drive_cmd: error=0x04 { DriveStatusError }
ide: failed opcode was: 0xef
=
The noises and error codes are randomly generated over time.
This is the hdparm outputs:
=
# hdparm /dev/hdc
/dev/hdc:
multcount= 32 (on)
IO_support = 1 (32-bit)
unmaskirq= 1 (on)
using_dma= 1 (on)
keepsettings = 0 (off)
readonly = 0 (off)
readahead= 256 (on)
geometry = 16676/16/63, sectors = 8606545920, start = 0
# hdparm /dev/hdd
/dev/hdd:
IO_support = 0 (default 16-bit)
unmaskirq= 0 (off)
using_dma= 0 (off)
keepsettings = 0 (off)
readonly = 0 (off)
readahead= 256 (on)
HDIO_GETGEO failed: Invalid argument
=
I thought that the CDRW DMA ought to be switched on?
Any advice appreciated.
--
Regards,
Mick
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: ???UNSURE??? [gentoo-user] Faulty IDE ribbon?
Mick a écrit :
Hi All,
Just checking before I buy a new ribbon, that there is nothing more sinister
happening with my secondary IDE controller. Suddenly and with no activity
on my secondary IDE controller there's a noise as if my /dev/hdc (8G ATA
drive) and /dev/hdd (CDWR) are reinitialised - i.e. the mechanical noises
usually observed when the machine is switched on and the BIOS probes the
devices on booting.
Both devices are not mounted and there is no media in the CDWR. This is
what dmesg shows:
=
hdc: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x61
hdc: DMA timeout error
hdc: dma timeout error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: task_in_intr: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error }
hdc: task_in_intr: error=0x04 { DriveStatusError }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: task_in_intr: status=0x59 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest Error }
[...snip]
hdd: DMA disabled
ide1: reset: success
hdc: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x21
hdc: DMA timeout error
hdc: dma timeout error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x21
hdc: DMA timeout error
hdc: dma timeout error: status=0x58 { DriveReady SeekComplete DataRequest }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: dma_timer_expiry: dma status == 0x21
hdc: DMA timeout error
hdc: dma timeout error: status=0x80 { Busy }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: DMA disabled
ide1: reset: success
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: ATAPI reset complete
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdd: ATAPI reset complete
hdd: status error: status=0x00 { }
ide: failed opcode was: unknown
hdc: drive_cmd: status=0x51 { DriveReady SeekComplete Error }
hdc: drive_cmd: error=0x04 { DriveStatusError }
ide: failed opcode was: 0xef
=
The noises and error codes are randomly generated over time.
This is the hdparm outputs:
=
# hdparm /dev/hdc
/dev/hdc:
multcount= 32 (on)
IO_support = 1 (32-bit)
unmaskirq= 1 (on)
using_dma= 1 (on)
keepsettings = 0 (off)
readonly = 0 (off)
readahead= 256 (on)
geometry = 16676/16/63, sectors = 8606545920, start = 0
# hdparm /dev/hdd
/dev/hdd:
IO_support = 0 (default 16-bit)
unmaskirq= 0 (off)
using_dma= 0 (off)
keepsettings = 0 (off)
readonly = 0 (off)
readahead= 256 (on)
HDIO_GETGEO failed: Invalid argument
=
I thought that the CDRW DMA ought to be switched on?
Any advice appreciated.
Hi
Is your PCI bus overclocked ?
--
Aucune femme ne se marie pour l'argent :
elles sont toutes assez intelligentes pour tomber amoureuses d'un
millionnaire avant de l'épouser.
-+- Cesare Pavese -+-
--
gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] cpu flags / USE flags / compiler flags
I agree with Ellotheth that it seems like there's an opportunity to come up with a good optimization doc but the paper is interesting. The answers might not be the same for P4 vs. AMD vs. sparc vs. Apple. Maybe a suite of files that get compiled, generate the numbers and instruct you what might work best? Interesting info. thanks. - Mark On 9/3/05, Volker Armin Hemmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sunday 04 September 2005 05:27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That list shows pentium4, mmx, sse, and sse2. Also, if you have *ANY* version of sse available, you can improve performance by running floating point math via sse, rather than 387 instructions. I recommend... CFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium4 -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse emm. I would not do this. -mfpmath=sse seems to be slower than -fpmath=387 http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436p=5 has the numbers/made the experience. It seems, that gcc is not he best optimizer in the world ;) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: /dev/cdrom has gone!
P-ATA only | S-ATA only | P-ATA S-ATA etc and some others. i use a Native Mode, so that my disk can be recognized as /dev/hdaXX instead of /dev/sdaXX. and P-ATA only but with S-ATA enabled. What's wrong about /dev/sdaX ? That's exactly how it should be. So disable that strange native-mode and instead enable the SATA driver in the SCSCI-driver section of your kernel. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] log4j-1.2.9 failed to compile
Hi!
I wanted to compile eclipse-sdk (emerge eclipse-sdk). emerge compiled some
other packages, but failed compiling log4j-1.2.9.
Can someone help me?
Here's the emerge output:
# emerge eclipse-sdk
Calculating dependencies ...done!
emerge (1 of 20) dev-java/log4j-1.2.9 to /
md5 files ;-) log4j-1.2.11.ebuild
md5 files ;-) log4j-1.2.9.ebuild
md5 files ;-) files/digest-log4j-1.2.9
md5 files ;-) files/digest-log4j-1.2.11
md5 src_uri ;-) logging-log4j-1.2.9.tar.gz
Unpacking source...
Unpacking logging-log4j-1.2.9.tar.gz to
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work
tar: A lone zero block at 17639
Source unpacked.
Buildfile: build.xml
init:
build.core:
[mkdir] Created dir:
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/dist/classes
[javac] Compiling 158 source files to
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/dist/classes
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/spi/LoggingEvent.java:360:
warning: non-varargs call of varargs method with inexact argument type for
last parameter;
[javac] cast to java.lang.Object for a varargs call
[javac] cast to java.lang.Object[] for a non-varargs call and to
suppress this warning
[javac] level = (Level) m.invoke(null, PARAM_ARRAY);
[javac] ^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/PropertyConfigurator.java:389:
warning: [deprecation] CONFIG_DEBUG_KEY in org.apache.log4j.helpers.LogLog
has been deprecated
[javac] value = properties.getProperty(LogLog.CONFIG_DEBUG_KEY);
[javac]^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/chainsaw/ControlPanel.java:85:
warning: [deprecation] getAllPossiblePriorities() in
org.apache.log4j.Priority has been deprecated
[javac] final Priority[] allPriorities =
Priority.getAllPossiblePriorities();
[javac] ^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/chainsaw/MyTableModel.java:132:
warning: [deprecation] DEBUG in org.apache.log4j.Priority has been
deprecated
[javac] private Priority mPriorityFilter = Priority.DEBUG;
[javac]^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/helpers/Loader.java:130:
warning: non-varargs call of varargs method with inexact argument type for
last parameter;
[javac] cast to java.lang.Class for a varargs call
[javac] cast to java.lang.Class[] for a non-varargs call and to suppress
this warning
[javac] method = Thread.class.getMethod(getContextClassLoader,
null);
[javac]^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/helpers/Loader.java:136:
warning: non-varargs call of varargs method with inexact argument type for
last parameter;
[javac] cast to java.lang.Object for a varargs call
[javac] cast to java.lang.Object[] for a non-varargs call and to
suppress this warning
[javac] return (ClassLoader) method.invoke(Thread.currentThread(),
null);
[javac]^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/lf5/viewer/LogBrokerMonitor.java:1237:
warning: [deprecation] getFontList() in java.awt.Toolkit has been deprecated
[javac] fonts = tk.getFontList();
[javac] ^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/lf5/util/LogFileParser.java:156:
warning: [deprecation] hide() in java.awt.Dialog has been deprecated
[javac] _loadDialog.hide();
[javac]^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/lf5/viewer/LogFactor5Dialog.java:45:
warning: [deprecation] show() in java.awt.Dialog has been deprecated
[javac] public void show() {
[javac] ^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/lf5/viewer/LogFactor5Dialog.java:45:
warning: [deprecation] show() in java.awt.Window has been deprecated
[javac] public void show() {
[javac] ^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/lf5/viewer/LogFactor5Dialog.java:45:
warning: [deprecation] show() in java.awt.Component has been deprecated
[javac] public void show() {
[javac] ^
[javac]
/var/tmp/portage/log4j-1.2.9/work/logging-log4j-1.2.9/src/java/org/apache/log4j/lf5/viewer/LogFactor5Dialog.java:49:
warning: [deprecation] show() in java.awt.Dialog has been deprecated
[javac] super.show();
[javac] ^
[gentoo-user] Re: Re: /dev/cdrom has gone!
yes, it works just well in WindowsXP. it even works before i use udev. hehe i'm not sure it failed due to the udev, i have no idea now. I had the exact same problem when switching to the 2.6 kernel and udev several months ago. After deleting .devfsd from the devices directory my CD burner was properly detected upon reboot, and the directory was populated with devices that were missing. There was a line in dmesg about .devfsd blocking at startup. Is .devfsd in your /dev directory? Run an ls -al /dev | grep devfsd. If so, boot off a livecd and delete the file. Be sure that you aren't using a hybrid of devfs and udev before doing this. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] why is Joe part of 'system' ?
Intending to unmerge Joe (I have Vim E3 as non-GUI editors available), I encountered !!! Trying to unmerge package(s) in system profile. 'app-editors/joe' !!! This could be damaging to your system I've searched thro' /usr/portage/profiles/* for any reference to Joe, but he doesn't seem to be anywhere. Can anyone suggest where he's lurking ? -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] why is Joe part of 'system' ?
On 9/4/05, Philip Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Intending to unmerge Joe (I have Vim E3 as non-GUI editors available), I encountered !!! Trying to unmerge package(s) in system profile. 'app-editors/joe' !!! This could be damaging to your system I've searched thro' /usr/portage/profiles/* for any reference to Joe, but he doesn't seem to be anywhere. Can anyone suggest where he's lurking ? /etc/rc.conf possibly? Joe is not in mine but we may be on different profiles. Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] floppy drive will format a disk, boot from a grub floppy, but can't write any files
Something odd is going on with my floppy drive, maybe it's just a hardware problem? In the first example you will see that I can format a floppy, mount it, but then I can not copy any files to it. -example Sun Sep 04 09:02:16 /home/skippi root $ mke2fs /dev/fd0 mke2fs 1.37 (21-Mar-2005) Filesystem label= OS type: Linux Block size=1024 (log=0) Fragment size=1024 (log=0) 184 inodes, 1440 blocks 72 blocks (5.00%) reserved for the super user First data block=1 1 block group 8192 blocks per group, 8192 fragments per group 184 inodes per group Writing inode tables: done Writing superblocks and filesystem accounting information: done This filesystem will be automatically checked every 24 mounts or 180 days, whichever comes first. Use tune2fs -c or -i to override. Sun Sep 04 09:03:18 /home/skippi root $ mkdir /floppy Sun Sep 04 09:03:40 /home/skippi root $ mount /dev/fd0 /floppy Sun Sep 04 09:03:56 /home/skippi root $ mkdir -p /floppy/boot/grub mkdir: cannot create directory `/floppy/boot': Input/output error - now here, I mount my GRUB floppy, which has files on it, since I used this to boot my computer, yet I can't actually see any of the files. another example-- Sun Sep 04 09:08:06 /home/skippi root $ mount /mnt/floppy/ Sun Sep 04 09:08:26 /home/skippi root $ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/hde7 11718996 6638084 5080912 57% / /dev/hde9266180800 232401964 33778836 88% /home /dev/fd0 1412 158 1182 12% /mnt/floppy Sun Sep 04 09:08:31 /home/skippi root $ cd /mnt/floppy/ Sun Sep 04 09:08:36 /mnt/floppy root $ ls Sun Sep 04 09:08:46 /mnt/floppy root $ du 1.0K. 1.0Ktotal Sun Sep 04 09:08:59 /mnt/floppy root $ Simply a bad drive? I have tried numerous floppy disk, and they can't all be bad. Any other ideas for troubleshooting? Thank you very much. Adrian -- On The Fly Photography -:- Creation From Chaos On The Fly Photography: http://204EastSouth.com Purchase from On The Fly: http://204EastSouth.com/OTFStore.htm The Cynical Libertarian Society: http://www.204EastSouth.com/cls -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Pixie does not run.
On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 10:29:30 -0400 Dave Nebinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote the words: LDFLAGS typically come in the -llib and -Lpath variety and are used to ensure that additional libraries and paths are included in the link phase. You typically won't need to add these (which is probably why there is little if any reference in the gentoo doc). Obviously there are more uses for LDFLAGS, but those above are used the most. If you do need them you can set up your environment variables before doing the make process. You can also use them on the command line ala LDFLAGS=-llib make, etc. Am I doing this correctly? Because it's not working Sun Sep 04 09:42:47 /var/tmp/portage/pixie-1.4.1-r1/work/Pixie root $ ./configure LDFLAGS=-llib make --prefix=/usr/local configure: WARNING: you should use --build, --host, --target checking for a BSD-compatible install... /bin/install -c checking whether build environment is sane... yes checking for gawk... gawk checking whether make sets $(MAKE)... yes checking for make-gcc... no checking for gcc... gcc checking for C compiler default output file name... configure: error: C compiler cannot create executables See `config.log' for more details. Thanks, Adrian -- On The Fly Photography -:- Creation From Chaos On The Fly Photography: http://204EastSouth.com Purchase from On The Fly: http://204EastSouth.com/OTFStore.htm The Cynical Libertarian Society: http://www.204EastSouth.com/cls -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] why is Joe part of 'system' ?
On Sunday 04 September 2005 15:30, Philip Webb wrote: Intending to unmerge Joe (I have Vim E3 as non-GUI editors available), I encountered !!! Trying to unmerge package(s) in system profile. 'app-editors/joe' !!! This could be damaging to your system I've searched thro' /usr/portage/profiles/* for any reference to Joe, but he doesn't seem to be anywhere. Can anyone suggest where he's lurking ? I'd put money on it being considered part of system because it provides virtual/editor, which is part of system. So, just remove it. -- Mike Williams -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] log4j-1.2.9 failed to compile
Martin Ullrich wrote: Hi! I wanted to compile eclipse-sdk (emerge eclipse-sdk). emerge compiled some other packages, but failed compiling log4j-1.2.9. Can someone help me? I spent a long time yesterday doing this emerge my self... I finally got it when I emerged all relevant dev-java/* stuff with the sun-jdk-1.4* compiler (after emerge -C the relevant packages). It seemed like some packages didn't like when some other package had been emerged with another compiler (sun-jdk-1.5*). -- Naga -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: dhcpcd 2.0.0 - Boot process hangs
OK, I tried again. I do get an IP, I can connect to the internet, but the dhcpcd-process does not finish. In a working gentoo environment that is not a big problem, but while booting, this is bad. The dhcpcd process must not finish. Imagine a DHCP-lease that is invalid after 10 minutes. The dhcpcd must regularly (well, before the lease is invalidated by the server) renew the lease. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 09:15:26AM -0400, Thomas Kirchner wrote: This can be a bit daunting, though, so when I was setting it up I found a fairly good base (taviso's, I believe) and customized the heck out of it. Now it's perfect for me, and I just can't get rid of it. I've tried pretty much every other option, but only FVWM can scratch everyone's exact itch - if they're patient. I did a search for taviso and found his fvwm2rc file: http://dev.gentoo.org/~taviso/fvwm2rc.html There's also a lot of screenshots (and even a video!) of that desktop. After starting this thread, I got to playing with enlightenment DR16 (not ready for 17 yet). Despite being known for the eye candy, it (so far) has proven itself to be a great lightweight window manager. Raster (enlightenment author) wrote a simple window manager benchmark program; see the results of some typical window managers here: http://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=News I'd like to see some more window manager benchmarks (because I'm a bit suspicious given that enlightenment had the best results in this benchmark). But I ran the two tests on my machine, and my results were consistent with Raster's. In fact, the two fastest window managers I tested were enlightenment DR16 and FVWM. I did play with Fvwm for a while, though. And taviso's configuration pretty much proves that *anything* is possible. It just takes so much work to get it looking nice! The Fvwm development team might take offense to this, but they could probably improve their market share if fvwm looked... different... out of the box. Not that market share is really important here, but it's a bit ironic to see all the window managers that have been written, either from scratch or as hacks on FVWM, when FVWM has been able to do pretty much everything for a long time. Well, now I'm thinking I need to learn X11 programming, and hack on FVWM or something... another project in my infinitely-long queue of started-but-not-finished projects. Matt -- Matt Garman email at: http://raw-sewage.net/index.php?file=email -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] why is Joe part of 'system' ?
050904 Mike Williams wrote: On Sunday 04 September 2005 15:30, Philip Webb wrote: Intending to unmerge Joe (I have Vim E3 as non-GUI editors available), I encountered !!! Trying to unmerge package(s) in system profile. 'app-editors/joe' !!! This could be damaging to your system I've searched thro' /usr/portage/profiles/* for any reference to Joe, but he doesn't seem to be anywhere. Can anyone suggest where he's lurking ? I'd put money on it being considered part of system because it provides virtual/editor, which is part of system. In /usr/portage/profiles/base/virtuals , it says virtual/editor app-editors/nano there's no mention of Joe. Someone else suggested it comes from /etc/rc.conf , but there I have EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim Any other suggestions ? I'm using the 2005.1 profile. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
050904 Matt Garman wrote: I did a search for taviso and found his fvwm2rc file: http://dev.gentoo.org/~taviso/fvwm2rc.html There's also a lot of screenshots (and even a video!) of that desktop. The video is astonishing ! Fvwm2 looks like great fun, if you have the time. -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Centre for Urban Community Studies TRANSIT`-O--O---' University of Toronto -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] why is Joe part of 'system' ?
On Sun, Sep 04, 2005 at 01:42:32PM -0400, Philip Webb wrote: I'd put money on it being considered part of system because it provides virtual/editor, which is part of system. In /usr/portage/profiles/base/virtuals , it says virtual/editor app-editors/nano there's no mention of Joe. In the ebuild it specifies PROVIDE=virtual/editor the virtual/editor thing in the profiles just specifies that the default install will use app-editors/nano to satisfy the virtual/editor requirement in system. If you have ANYTHING at all that provides virtual/editor, it will satisfy the system. But at the same time, if you want to unmerge anything that provides virtual/editor, the warning will come up. For example, currently, on my desktop, [02:21 PM]wwong ~ $ emerge search nano Searching... [ Results for search key : nano ] [ Applications found : 4 ] * app-editors/nano Latest version available: 1.3.7 Latest version installed: [ Not Installed ] Size of downloaded files: 985 kB Homepage:http://www.nano-editor.org/ Description: GNU GPL'd Pico clone with more functionality License: GPL-2 [02:22 PM]wwong ~ $ cat /usr/portage/profiles/base/virtuals | grep editor virtual/editor app-editors/nano virtual/emacs app-editors/emacs virtual/xemacs app-editors/xemacs [02:19 PM]wwong proto-gen $ emerge --pretend virtual/editor These are the packages that I would merge, in order: Calculating dependencies ...done! [ebuild R ] app-editors/gvim-6.3.084 So... although nano is the default editor it is not installed on my system. And I have at least gvim to satisfy the virtual/editor requirements in system (though I usually use vim, which also satisfies the requirement). In fact, if you grep virtual/editor /usr/portage/app-editors/*/*ebuild you'd see that easyedit, elvis, emacs, gvim, jed, joe, nano, ne, nvi, teco, vile, vim, xemacs all provide that function. So in short, just go ahead and unmerge Joe if you aren't going to use it. W -- There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind. - This line perhaps best sums up the whole book. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 23 days, 21:21 -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Network timeout, eth0 stopped
Approx a week ago, I got a new computer, AMD64 on a K8 Triton Gigabyte Triton Nforce 4 motherboard. Today, ethernet stopped functioning. I couldn't even get it to work with the Gentoo minimal install CD. It was running OK the past week with... * Reverse Engineered nForce Ethernet support (EXPERIMENTAL) built into the kernel (would be forcedeth as a module). I looks like it has died on me. My old backup machine, hooked up to the same 4-port ADSL-modem/router connects to the net just fine. I swapped the ethernet cables to check if it was a bad router port or cable. The old machine works, the new one doesn't. m3000 is the machine's hostname. The following message shows up in my logs (and on tty12) when I try to access a web site... NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out Sep 4 11:47:31 m3000 nv_stop_tx: TransmitterStatus remained busy7eth0: tx_timeout: dead entries! lspci -vv shows the following... :00:0a.0 Bridge: nVidia Corporation CK804 Ethernet Controller (rev a2) Subsystem: Giga-byte Technology: Unknown device e000 Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- Status: Cap+ 66Mhz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=fast TAbort- TAbort- MAbort- SERR- PERR- Latency: 0 (250ns min, 5000ns max) Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 11 Region 0: Memory at ea104000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Region 1: I/O ports at e000 [size=8] Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0+,D1+,D2+,D3hot+,D3cold+) Status: D0 PME-Enable+ DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- It's Sunday afternoon, and tomorrow's a holiday. Any last-minute ideas or tweaks before I take it back to the shop on Tuesday? -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] why is Joe part of 'system' ?
Mike Williams schreef: On Sunday 04 September 2005 18:42, Philip Webb wrote: In /usr/portage/profiles/base/virtuals , it says virtual/editor app-editors/nano there's no mention of Joe. This only specifies the default for the virtual. You've installed joe, so it provides virtual/editor, thus is considered part of system. Like 7 people have said that Joe provides virtual/editor, which of course it does. What I'm surprised at is that no one has said, Look in /var/cache/edb/virtuals, where you will likely see that Joe is set as (one of) the in-use virtual/editor(s) on your actual system. You may also see that there are multiple editors set for virtual/editor, since you have multiple programs installed that provide this function, and I have seen multiple settings for several virtuals on my system, such as jre and linux-sources. You're not going to avoid the scary message (because you are uninstalling a system package), but you might want to just re-check your virtuals file after unmerging Joe, to make sure that something is still set there-- if not, re-emerge vim or nano or whatever, just to reind Portage that something is installed to handle the virtual. HTH, Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Getting direct rendering (DRI) to work with ATI 9550 video card
Ok! Thanks to all who offered suggestions. I finally got it working. Bottom line was, you need to re-emerge Xorg to get it working. I noticed this line while emerging xorg: * Switching to ati OpenGL interface... Regenerating /etc/ld.so.cache... I then re-emerged the ati-drivers which turned out to be a mistake. During my desperate attempts to get it working I forgot I had installed the drivers which I downloaded directly from ATI. So re-emerging the ati-drivers which are a few versions behind the official drivers caused a incompatible kernel module, direct rendering will not work error when starting X. No problem, I simply re-installed the drivers downloaded direct from ATI and now everything is working including direct rendering! I think some notes should be made on the ATI-FAQ about re-emerging Xorg. I'll send a note to wedge__ AT fastmail.fm. -- John Lange On Sat, 2005-09-03 at 04:38 +0200, Sergio Polini wrote: John Lange: Note the dates in: /usr/lib/modules/extensions/ -r--r--r-- 1 root root 16580 Apr 10 17:38 libdbe.a -r--r--r-- 1 root root 32470 Apr 10 17:38 libdri.a -r--r--r-- 1 root root 167396 Apr 10 17:38 libextmod.a -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 651460 Apr 10 18:20 libglx.so.1.0.7174 -r--r--r-- 1 root root 25688 Apr 10 17:38 librecord.a -r--r--r-- 1 root root 39306 Apr 10 17:38 libxtrap.a nothing new in a while Does Xorg need to be re-emerged to get this working? I think so. My dates (as you can see in my previuos message) are Aug 6. Looking for Aug 06 in /var/log/emerge.log, I've found: - nvidia-kernel: not emerged on Aug 6 - nvidia-glx: not emerged on Aug 6 - opengl-update: not emerged on Aug 6 - xorg-x11-6.8.2-r2: emerged on Aug 6 HTH Sergio -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] What's going on with scons
Hi, I'm doing right now an emerge -vuD world. Now portage wants to UPDATE scons. If I do another emerge -vuD world (not necessary to run emerge sync) portage wants to DOWNGRADE scons. Always that I do an emerge sync and later an emerge -vuD world, it updates my system, but scons depends on the last time, if it was updated, portage will downgrade it and if was downgraded, portage will try to update it... What's going on with scons? Thanks. -- You know you're brilliant, but maybe you'd like to understand what you did 2 weeks from now. - Linus Torvalds Gentoo GNU/Linux. pgpUfF0y6npil.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
On 04 September 2005 11:41, Holly Bostick wrote: I've tried to stay away from this thread but can't resist any more. ;-) [ snip a lot of Holly's rant I mostly agree with ] This is why I can't deal with all the people I encounter who suggest that 'it' should 'JustWork' without need for instruction of any sort (whether that be a physical manual, man pages, READMEs, or Windows Help files). Like humanity is sooo good at making stuff, and 'users' are sooo brilliantly educated, that they should be able to look at a computing device and immediately know what it all means (like looking at a screwhole, a screw, and a screwdriver). It's not gonna happen any time soon, and it certainly hasn't happened yet. Operating a computer safely, reliably, and with any degree of competence whatsoever is a hard and complex task, and it's going to be hard for some time to come. That is exactly the reason I feel I have to make sure I do not add further complexity to it for my users. My users, or actually my customers and their users, are mostly office workers, engineers and journalists or other workers at newspapers. So it's mostly about corporate computing rather than home users. They do not administrate their boxes, they use them. Or, to use Holly's example of driving, they are drivers rather than car mechanics. My POV is: The most important feature of a GUI is consistency. Before I'll argue that point, I have to put away a fairy tale of computing: The intuitive desktop. Such beast does not exist. Intuition is highly based on one's cultural background. Since cultures are pretty much diverse, desktops cannot be intuitive across different culture. Lemme give you some examples, all of them coming from KDE because that is what I know best. Let's have a look at the icon for Email. That's a capital E, an envelop leaning against it. Pretty intuitive, no? Alright, let's just assume I have grown up with a language that does not use the Latin script, and I do not speak English at all. In that case, the E is meaningless to me. Let's additionally assume my culture doesn't use envelops for mail but scrolls. The entire icon does not contain one single hint for me to guess what it means. Look at the icon for Help. Let's say you have never been on a ship. Let's say you have never seen a ship - and yes, there are a lot of people like that. What does that red-and-white ring tell you? Next to nothing. Same for the Home icon. Unless your home looks somehow like that, you won't be able to associate the icon with home intuitively. A diagonal line from the bottom-left corner to the top-right one means upwards, right? Well, yes, it does for most of us. The keyword here is most. Most of us read from the left to the right. That gives us the sense of direction when we look at that line. Those who read from the right to the left perceive it as downwards. And how about those who read from top to bottom? Actually, I have no idea how they may perceive that line. Alright, I have got into my favourite pasttime: Intercultural communications. I'll stop here as long as we can agree on intuitive desktops being a fairy tale that has never made it into real life. Let's forget about that concept and come back to my initial point: The most crucial property of any computer (G)UI is consistency. Inconsistencies make it damn much harder for users to learn their environment or, in Holly speak, to commit to it. To borrow from Holly's example of driving again: All cars have their accelerators on the right hand side, the clutch on the left hand side and the brake in between (alright, cars with automatic gearboxes omit the clutch). That makes it feasible to change to another car without learning driving from scratch. Same for computers and, especially, desktops. All Open dialogues *must* look and operate the same regardless which application one uses. The Print entry *must* be in the same menu regardless of the application. The same icon means the same in every application; a particular action is represented by the same icon in each and every application. Same for wording. Dismiss, Cancel, Bail out - that's simply confusing for someone who *tries* to commit themselves to something new like linux. That's the reason I strongly advise to go with a real Desktop Environment for users rather than choose a windows manager and all the apps at random. Throw KDE or GNOME at your users to make it easier for them commit themselves. Make it easier for them to drive their desktops by providing a consistent interface. /my rant If you geeks want to use whatever you want, that is fine. For *you*. Don't even dream about converting the vast majority of computer *users* with that approach. Good night Uwe -- 95% of all programmers rate themselves among the top 5% of all software developers. - Linus Torvalds http://www.uwix.iway.na (last updated: 20.06.2004) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] eix color meaning
Hello, I've searched for details on the meanings of the results of eix displayed in various colors: (color,brightness) available colors are: default, black, red, green, yellow, blue, purple, cyan, gray I even glanced over the wiki, but no details on what each color means. Note, I use KDE and have my terminal-settings-schema set to linux colors. Surely I overlooked the information that describes what a search result means depending on color, like red vs brown? James -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] why is Joe part of 'system' ?
I'd put money on it being considered part of system because it provides virtual/editor, which is part of system. In /usr/portage/profiles/base/virtuals , it says virtual/editor app-editors/nano there's no mention of Joe. Someone else suggested it comes from /etc/rc.conf , but there I have EDITOR=/usr/bin/vim Any other suggestions ? I'm using the 2005.1 profile. /usr/portage/profiles/base/virtuals lists DEFAULT package that provides given virtual. quote # This file describes the packages that by default satisfy a certain virtual # That this file exists in the base profile implies that these packages will # work on any architecture that needs that virtual /quote cthulhu ~ # grep PROVIDE $(equery which joe) PROVIDE=virtual/editor cthulhu ~ # grep PROVIDE $(equery which vim) PROVIDE=virtual/editor I suppose that if you have vim installed you may just ignore the warning, and the warning will be issued on any unmerge of every package that provides a virtual/editor, not taking care whether any other installed package provides the same virtual - not a big problem, just minor nuisance. Howgh. ;-) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by grep -i virus $MESSAGE pgpjUZnc79Pky.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
On 9/4/05, Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 3 Sep 2005 15:56:34 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: In general I'll have to take the unpopular position and say I disagree. All those potential converts are just like you - They don't run desktops they run apps - and because they are so entrenched with dollars already spent on Microsoft Windows, Microsoft email, Microsoft Office, Quicken,, etc., they won't come just because they can save $400 buying a new PC. To become a Linux user is a commitment. People don't make new commitments lightly, and making a light commitment to Linux is doomed to failure. It's far too hard to use. Imagine knowing absolutely nothing about any Linux editor, nor even terminal commands, and trying to configure networking. It's nigh on impossible. You're confusing using with administering. Yes, administering a Linux system takes more knowledge than clicking a few buttons in Windows, but using a correctly setup system is no harder with Linux, even Gentoo, than Windows. My partner is about as computer-illiterate as they come, but she uses a Gentoo system. She runs apps, not a desktop and not an operating system. She uses KDE, not because she prefers it, but because it's what I use, so it was the easiest one for me to show her around. But as long as her mailer, browser and office programs work, she doesn't care what's underneath. This is someone so technophobic that she cannot use a VCR, but Linux is not hard to use for her. -- Neil Bothwick Neil, But to use it you have to set it up, right? ;-) I'm not confusing administering a system with using a system. Although my skill set is permanantly locked somewhere around the 6 out of 10 level I do understand that difference. I also understand what it's like on the other side. I administer not only my own Gentoo systems (numbering 3) but I also administer my wife's Gentoo box, my son's Fedora box, my father's Gentoo box and 4 Pundit-R's that are used as MythTV frontend machines. I get the difference. I love Gentoo, and Linux in general, but it took a long time. The point is that not a single one of those people could even begin to take a Gentoo CD and end up with a running system, or if they did it would take weeks. Everyone of them can do that with Windows in an afternoon. They have. None of them could even begin to do what's in a Gentoo install doc in terms of configuration. The editors are arcane, the instructions sometimes a bit vague, and RTFM instructions would simply send them back to Windows in a heart beat. We both understand that without vi or nano experience that without luck you'll probably never get networking, and without networking you go nowhere fast. We both can see that if someone tried to use Linux on a Windows network the first question after getting the machine up would probably be some Samba oriented issue about 'Where is network neighborhood' Windows gives me that. How do I get my files? ...etc... I've had to solve that for my family. Browsers are almost OK these days, as long as you don't want or need multimedia, flash, etc., but after I'll hit the real issue that was raised earlier. Even if the machine is up and working perfectly, I need M$ Word, Excel, Outlook, or all my old stuff is lost and I'm just starting over. Damn, the kid sure is screaming loud about his stupid games not working, my wife want's her 'Family Tree' program or some other such thing. I give up and go to the pub for liquid therapy. I've done this, both for myself and for 3 family members. Granted, I ain't that smart, but I've seen the problems. On the other hand I think many hot shot Linux folks cannot always see the forest for the trees and take far, far too much for granted. For someone who just wants to browse the web and get a little email through GMail Window gets the job done until it fails. When it does they wipe their disk, reinstall, and go on. That sort of user is never, IMHO, going to make a commitment to learn vi... Just my two cents, respectfully given. I'm not bashing Linux, or developers, or anyone here. I'm just saying life isn't all about CS majors just out of college. cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] What's going on with scons
Rafael Fernández López schreef: Hi, I'm doing right now an emerge -vuD world. Now portage wants to UPDATE scons. If I do another emerge -vuD world (not necessary to run emerge sync) portage wants to DOWNGRADE scons. Always that I do an emerge sync and later an emerge -vuD world, it updates my system, but scons depends on the last time, if it was updated, portage will downgrade it and if was downgraded, portage will try to update it... What's going on with scons? Thanks. One of two things could be happening here: 1) Did you originally emerge scons with ACCEPT_KEYWORDS=~arch in the command line, and forget to add scons to /etc/portage/package.keywords? If so, as far as Portage is concerned, the package is illegal, so it attempts to downgrade it to stable, but something that depends on the later version then attempts to upgrade it. If this is the case, add scons to /etc/portage/package.keywords, and the madness should stop. 2) The reverse dependencies on scons are (hopefully) temporarily mixed. Sometimes packages with many 'plugins' that depend on the main package get 'out of sync' with the main package (gstreamer comes to mind). The problem being that some of the installed reverse dependencies depend on an earlier version, and some depend on a later. As I said, this is usually temporary; upstream/Portage usually gets updated packages that conform everything to the same version (meaning the current version) within a day (two at most). If it's longer than that, check bugs.gentoo.org for more information, since that tends to indicate an 'issue'. If this is the case, do an emerge -vuDt world to get the dependency tree and see which plugin/module is depending on the old version. First, see if there's an update already that perhaps needs to be unmasked in /etc/portage/package.keywords. If not (yet), and you can do without that particular plugin for a short time, unmerge it; problem solved. Just keep your eye out for the updated version. If you can't do without the older-version module/plugin, try downgrading the ones that are causing the update (mask them to keep Portage from trying to drag the later ones in). You can thereafter watch Portage like a hawk for the updates and reverse your changes, or you can go on with the earlier versions until the later versions go stable, in which case they'll be updated normally in due time. HTH, Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Where did XFS (the X Font Server) go? [WBMII]
On Wednesday 27 April 2005 14:33, Heinrich Rebehn wrote: Could this not be made the default? xorg takes *hours* to emerge. After upgrading xorg, i am now left without a fontserver for all of our 30 diskless clients, which are configured to use xfs. most people do not need it, so why should it be default? The people, using it should look out for themselves, instead forcing everybody to build a server most people never ever need. If you use ccache, the second build, with fontserver enabled will take a lot less time ;) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Network timeout, eth0 stopped
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Approx a week ago, I got a new computer, AMD64 on a K8 Triton Gigabyte Triton Nforce 4 motherboard. Today, ethernet stopped functioning. I couldn't even get it to work with the Gentoo minimal install CD. It was running OK the past week with... * Reverse Engineered nForce Ethernet support (EXPERIMENTAL) built into the kernel (would be forcedeth as a module). I looks like it has died on me. My old backup machine, hooked up to the same 4-port ADSL-modem/router connects to the net just fine. I swapped the ethernet cables to check if it was a bad router port or cable. The old machine works, the new one doesn't. m3000 is the machine's hostname. The following message shows up in my logs (and on tty12) when I try to access a web site... NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out Sep 4 11:47:31 m3000 nv_stop_tx: TransmitterStatus remained busy7eth0: tx_timeout: dead entries! hi, I've got an AMD64 assus nfore 4 mobo with on board eth, and I started to have the same problem some time ago. Was just wondering wether it is just a driver problem or should take it back to shop... The thing is, that when I power the computer off completely (take it off ac completely, so the motherboard gets shut down completely) and then boot it again, it seems to work again... I wasn't able to find any reason for it to fail, sometimes it failed 2-3 times a day, then it ran on for about a week... I'm running the same driver (forcedeth), logs show the same messages, nothing interesting before them... I've got win installed on the machine and even rebooting to them didn't help (tought, that the win driver could somehow reset the card back ;), only the hard power-down. I do not use the win instalation much (at least it is newer booted for longer than 2-3 hours...) so I can't say if it happens in win too... lspci -vv :00:0a.0 Bridge: nVidia Corporation CK804 Ethernet Controller (rev a3) Subsystem: ASUSTeK Computer Inc. K8N4-E Mainboard Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- Status: Cap+ 66Mhz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=fast TAbort- TAbort- MAbort- SERR- PERR- Latency: 0 (250ns min, 5000ns max) Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 177 Region 0: Memory at d000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Region 1: I/O ports at b000 [size=8] Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0+,D1+,D2+,D3hot+,D3cold+) Status: D0 PME-Enable+ DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- yoyo lspci -vv shows the following... :00:0a.0 Bridge: nVidia Corporation CK804 Ethernet Controller (rev a2) Subsystem: Giga-byte Technology: Unknown device e000 Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- Status: Cap+ 66Mhz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=fast TAbort- TAbort- MAbort- SERR- PERR- Latency: 0 (250ns min, 5000ns max) Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 11 Region 0: Memory at ea104000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Region 1: I/O ports at e000 [size=8] Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1+ D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0+,D1+,D2+,D3hot+,D3cold+) Status: D0 PME-Enable+ DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- It's Sunday afternoon, and tomorrow's a holiday. Any last-minute ideas or tweaks before I take it back to the shop on Tuesday? -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
Uwe Thiem schreef: On 04 September 2005 11:41, Holly Bostick wrote: I've tried to stay away from this thread but can't resist any more. ;-) [ snip a lot of Holly's rant I mostly agree with ] This is why I can't deal with all the people I encounter who suggest that 'it' should 'JustWork' without need for instruction of any sort (whether that be a physical manual, man pages, READMEs, or Windows Help files). Like humanity is sooo good at making stuff, and 'users' are sooo brilliantly educated, that they should be able to look at a computing device and immediately know what it all means (like looking at a screwhole, a screw, and a screwdriver). It's not gonna happen any time soon, and it certainly hasn't happened yet. Operating a computer safely, reliably, and with any degree of competence whatsoever is a hard and complex task, and it's going to be hard for some time to come. That is exactly the reason I feel I have to make sure I do not add further complexity to it for my users. My users, or actually my customers and their users, are mostly office workers, engineers and journalists or other workers at newspapers. So it's mostly about corporate computing rather than home users. They do not administrate their boxes, they use them. Or, to use Holly's example of driving, they are drivers rather than car mechanics. Yes, Uwe, I see what you mean-- but do you see that they don't *have* to be competent/educated/committed because they have you to be that for them? My point was only that *someone* has to be, because we are not at such a state of technological advancement where it's possible for such a device to operate without somebody who knows what they're doing somewhere along the line. Behind every good (and bad) user, there's a frazzled admin keeping the channel clear for them. snip of Uwe's rant, most of which I agree with If you geeks want to use whatever you want, that is fine. For *you*. Don't even dream about converting the vast majority of computer *users* with that approach. Hey, who you calling a geek? ;-) But seriously, where are you going with this? First of all, who cares about converting anybody? But let's say somebody does... and there are, naturally, those who do. Those who do are... let's see... commercial distributions like Mandriva, SUSE, RedHat. Seems to me that they already go to a lot of trouble to conform their environments to the type of standard you describe. Only a few apps like OO.o just won't get in line. So those who have a stake in managing such issues, manage such issues. Those who have a stake in such issues being managed, go with the organization that's managing the issues they need managed. So is there any reason that I, as someone not particularly interested in managing this issue, need to think any more about this :-) ? Holly -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 13:02:30 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: You're confusing using with administering. Yes, administering a Linux system takes more knowledge than clicking a few buttons in Windows, but using a correctly setup system is no harder with Linux, even Gentoo, than Windows. My partner is about as computer-illiterate as they come, but she uses a Gentoo system. She runs apps, not a desktop and not an operating system. She uses KDE, not because she prefers it, but because it's what I use, so it was the easiest one for me to show her around. But as long as her mailer, browser and office programs work, she doesn't care what's underneath. This is someone so technophobic that she cannot use a VCR, but Linux is not hard to use for her. Neil, But to use it you have to set it up, right? ;-) Wrong. someone has to set it up, but it doesn't have to be the user. I'm not confusing administering a system with using a system. Although my skill set is permanantly locked somewhere around the 6 out of 10 level I do understand that difference. I also understand what it's like on the other side. I administer not only my own Gentoo systems (numbering 3) but I also administer my wife's Gentoo box, my son's Fedora box, my father's Gentoo box and 4 Pundit-R's that are used as MythTV frontend machines. I get the difference. I love Gentoo, and Linux in general, but it took a long time. See, you are the admin, your wife etc. are users. they don't care about the ins and outs of the system, only what they can do with it. The point is that not a single one of those people could even begin to take a Gentoo CD and end up with a running system, or if they did it would take weeks. Why would they need to, they have you for that :) -- Neil Bothwick OPERATOR ERROR: Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah, Nyah! pgpBLvG5fnSiu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
On 9/4/05, Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But to use it you have to set it up, right? ;-) Wrong. someone has to set it up, but it doesn't have to be the user. Surely... I'm not confusing administering a system with using a system. Although my skill set is permanantly locked somewhere around the 6 out of 10 level I do understand that difference. I also understand what it's like on the other side. I administer not only my own Gentoo systems (numbering 3) but I also administer my wife's Gentoo box, my son's Fedora box, my father's Gentoo box and 4 Pundit-R's that are used as MythTV frontend machines. I get the difference. I love Gentoo, and Linux in general, but it took a long time. See, you are the admin, your wife etc. are users. they don't care about the ins and outs of the system, only what they can do with it. Fine, but going back to the only thing in the thread that got me involved (why do I get involved? ) ;-) Walter siad: I think lightweight WM's will be important. Linux in general will have a great window of Opportunity when Vista is released. A lot of current machines will not be able to run it well (crawl != run). If people are faced with a choice of throwing out their old W2K, and XP machines, and buying new ones, versus keeping their machines and switching to linux, I think we could see quite a few converts. Now, if by a 'few' we want to assume one or two who learn enough to make it work, then I agree with Walter, but that's not very interesting. On the other hand, if by a few mean mean thousands (not millions, etc.) then I suggest it isn't going to happen because they won't be able to administer it themselves and they won't know someone who'll do it for them like I do for my family. My 'disagreement', if there is one, is that a savings of $300 for a new computer and a $99 Windows upgrade won't convince many people to learn to do it themselves using Linux. It takes a much stronger reason than that, at least in my limited part of the planet. The point is that not a single one of those people could even begin to take a Gentoo CD and end up with a running system, or if they did it would take weeks. Why would they need to, they have you for that :) 3 people do, but thousands don't. Anyway, 'nuff said. Thanks! Cheers, Mark -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] ebuild for Lost Labyrinth
Hy Nick, I just uploaded Version 1.1.0 where I have rewritten the whole laby kernel. Now everthing works a lot better. All known bugs are fixed too! Please do not use the old version 1.0.5, because I discovered a lot of nasty bugs in this version! The new version is a good one! Markus Am Montag, 29. August 2005 22:54 schrieb Nick Rout: yes well when it is in portage the file will be updated into the portage tree automatically. in the meantime you have to download both the ebuild and the wrapper script, same as for any other new ebuild. Sorry if I didn't make this clear in the email with the new ebuild. I don't think its correct for an ebuild to create a script on the fly, ie embedded in the ebuild itself. FYI I have found a games ebuild howto which may lead me to change how the ebuild works before committing it to bugzilla and the terrible and swift swords of the devs... For example i stored the highscores.dat file (which needs to be writable) in /usr, whereas you shouldn't have programs writing to /usr, so it should go in /var somewhere. On Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:47:02 -0700 Greg Bengeult wrote: Nick Rout wrote: did you have the laby wrapper script in /usr/local/portage/games-roguelike/laby/files ?? I posted the wrapper script with the first version of the ebuild. Nope, I didn't keep a copy of it at the time. To be considered complete, the ebuild should either include a copy of the wrapper or should create it on the fly. The user shouldn't have to do anything more than emerge laby. -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo extras cd
Thanks all for the replies, I'll have a look at getdelta, I was more after something like where for Debian you can get the 12CD/4DVD set and just apt-get the packages locally. re Nick, just get a whole lot of binary packages on CD/DVD is what im after. Cheers Justin Kelly Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] you are mixing two issues here - do you want to download sources faster and still compile them yourself, or just get binary packages? On 9/4/05, Uwe Thiem [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 02 September 2005 23:44, Fernando Canizo wrote: El 01/sep/2005 a las 22:51 -0300, Justin me decía: Hi All, Ive been using Gentoo PPC for a while, and as a dial-up user find to difficult to download all the packages i want(just takes to long), is there anything like the Packages CD but more :) Does anyone know if a 3rd party/or gentoo provides such a thing? I don't mind paying for such a CD/DVD. No, don't know, but in the meantime you can use 'getdelta' (emerge getdelta). I know a couple of dialup users that were very satisfied with this. I concur. It usually speeds things up. Uwe -- 95% of all programmers rate themselves among the top 5% of all software developers. - Linus Torvalds http://www.uwix.iway.na (last updated: 20.06.2004) -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
On Sun, 4 Sep 2005 14:11:51 -0700, Mark Knecht wrote: See, you are the admin, your wife etc. are users. they don't care about the ins and outs of the system, only what they can do with it. Fine, but going back to the only thing in the thread that got me involved (why do I get involved? ) ;-) Walter siad: I think lightweight WM's will be important. Linux in general will have a great window of Opportunity when Vista is released. A lot of current machines will not be able to run it well (crawl != run). If people are faced with a choice of throwing out their old W2K, and XP machines, and buying new ones, versus keeping their machines and switching to linux, I think we could see quite a few converts. Now, if by a 'few' we want to assume one or two who learn enough to make it work, then I agree with Walter, but that's not very interesting. On the other hand, if by a few mean mean thousands (not millions, etc.) then I suggest it isn't going to happen because they won't be able to administer it themselves and they won't know someone who'll do it for them like I do for my family. Fair comment. If you're talking about individual user/admins then the learning curve of installing and administering a different OS (not necessarily more difficult, just different) is a serious obstacle. Why would they need to, they have you for that :) 3 people do, but thousands don't. Be thankful for that, I'm sure three is more than enough at times :) -- Neil Bothwick Time for a diet! -- [NO FLABBIER]. pgp3PNYaNeoZT.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] cpu flags / USE flags / compiler flags
On Sun, Sep 04, 2005 at 08:21:47AM +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote On Sunday 04 September 2005 05:27, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CFLAGS=-O2 -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -march=pentium4 -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse emm. I would not do this. -mfpmath=sse seems to be slower than -fpmath=387 http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436p=5 has the numbers/made the experience. It seems, that gcc is not he best optimizer in the world ;) I've read through the article, and there are a couple of interesting items in it... 1) The bit about sse being slower than 387 only applies to the brand new Xeon Irwindale. 2) The brand new 3.6 ghz Xeon Irwindale ran slower than the older 3.06 ghz Xeon Galatin. That leads to one of two possible conclusions... Really Bad) The Irwindale is at least lame if not totally b0rk3n. Not so Bad) The Irwindale is so new that the gcc developers haven't had an opportunity to implement optimizations for it. In either case, I wouldn't want to extrapolate Xeon Irwindale results to all Intel X86 chips, let alone AMD. /usr/portage/app-benchmarks has several items in it. Does anybody know which ones have floating-point tests? Tinfoil-hat-theory... have you noticed that Microsoft just loves to use Xeons, especially dual-Xeons, in their get the facts propaganda? I wonder if they've found a problem with gcc's optimizations for Xeon, and are exploiting that problem to bias all their comparisons. -- Walter Dnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
[gentoo-user] Re: dhcpcd 2.0.0 - Boot process hangs
The dhcpcd process must not finish. Imagine a DHCP-lease that is invalid after 10 minutes. The dhcpcd must regularly (well, before the lease is invalidated by the server) renew the lease. But the boot process stops, and I can't work with my gentoo box. It does not with the old version. So something is broken, maybe my configs, maybe the ebuild. Well, usually i'd say that the dhcpcd-process should daemonized itself somehow, so that the boot-process continues. I don't have any problems with the upgrade to dhcpcd, but i know of one friend that has problems with his network-card. Getting a DHCP-address taked about 20 seconds with that NIC and i don't know why. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Apache Virtual Host
On Sun, 4 Sep 2005, q-parser wrote: Unfortunately, it was no help :( I'll try to reinstall Koha (that's what I'm trying to get working) and see if the problem persists. But I strongly believe that there's problem with apache or vhost. Sorry to be blunt, but it really sounds like you dont really know what you're doing. You really need to read the docs on how to setup virtual hosts. There is nothing wrong with apache. -- -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 00:56:56 +0100 Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fair comment. If you're talking about individual user/admins then the learning curve of installing and administering a different OS (not necessarily more difficult, just different) is a serious obstacle. Based on my experiences, I'll disagree with you Neil. I had a couple of interns working for me last year. One was about to graduate from college and the other was in the middle of getting a Master's degree. Both were comp-sci majors. The Master's degree intern had been running Red Hat or something, but really didn't know Linux. The other intern used WinXX - college was teaching her Java, nothing much more than that. First thing I did was get them set up with systems and hand them a Gentoo minimal CD and url for the installation manual. Told them to ask anything they wanted at any time. Explained to them that they needed to learn Linux, but that RPM based distros wouldn't give them any type of broad knowledge, and wouldn't be any better than learning to install WinXX. They took about a week, with a couple of restarts, had them run fluxbox and Enlightenment before allowing them to run their choice of WM. Eventually, they moved to KDE, which is fine, but they had an X environment and additional knowledge, they could work while KDE was compiling. *Btw - they were also learning how to install and use Irix at the same time.) While they were there, they had no real problems with Gentoo. As part of their task at the time was porting/fixing former Irix tests to run on Linux, it was a lot easier to deal with the issues on Gentoo, then move the the tests to RH and SuSE, where all kinds of things broke. But they were more able to fix the tests because they had a better peek under the hood. While they've left to go to other companies, one of the interns told me that she misses her Gentoo system - she's back in the Java/WinXX world of Corporate computing. For training new technical individuals on Linux, source based distributions with package management systems that stay out of the way, are great tools. Even if the end of the road for many of them is some - keep your distance, GUI installer based, RPM Linux system. For a long time I used to think that starting a new user with a nice RPM based distribution was the right answer. I was wrong. It's the wrong answer. It teaches them nothing they can use in the future. It's painful during upgrades. It binds their hands in the shackles of - you will do things the way we tell you to do them. And letting new users utilize GUI based installers, always ends in - where is the install everything check box? They may migrate to another distribution, and that's fine. But they will be prepared and have knowledge. To use Holly's car analogy - they learned to drive a stick shift, but now want an automatic. No problem. (It's a poor analogy on my part - too simplistic and not fair to Portage.) Also, this isn't just the two interns. With only two exceptions - a Slackware user, and a remote Engineer who prefers to have Corp IS administrate the box, I've moved a lot of technical people to Gentoo. A few have gone to other dists, and a few have returned back to Gentoo - the others are just too painful to administer. But, in all cases, they are more knowledgeable because of having to do things the hard way. And being more knowledgeable make them much more valuable as skilled employees. More so than any certification will. Bob - -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
On Sep 4, 2005, at 11:20 PM, Bob Sanders wrote: On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 00:56:56 +0100 Neil Bothwick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fair comment. If you're talking about individual user/admins then the learning curve of installing and administering a different OS (not necessarily more difficult, just different) is a serious obstacle. Based on my experiences, I'll disagree with you Neil. I had a couple of interns working for me last year. One was about to graduate from college and the other was in the middle of getting a Master's degree. Both were comp-sci majors. The Master's degree intern had been running Red Hat or something, but really didn't know Linux. The other intern used WinXX - college was teaching her Java, nothing much more than that. First thing I did was get them set up with systems and hand them a Gentoo minimal CD and url for the installation manual. Told them to ask anything they wanted at any time. Explained to them that they needed to learn Linux, but that RPM based distros wouldn't give them any type of broad knowledge, and wouldn't be any better than learning to install WinXX. They took about a week, with a couple of restarts, had them run fluxbox and Enlightenment before allowing them to run their choice of WM. Eventually, they moved to KDE, which is fine, but they had an X environment and additional knowledge, they could work while KDE was compiling. *Btw - they were also learning how to install and use Irix at the same time.) While they were there, they had no real problems with Gentoo. As part of their task at the time was porting/fixing former Irix tests to run on Linux, it was a lot easier to deal with the issues on Gentoo, then move the the tests to RH and SuSE, where all kinds of things broke. But they were more able to fix the tests because they had a better peek under the hood. While they've left to go to other companies, one of the interns told me that she misses her Gentoo system - she's back in the Java/WinXX world of Corporate computing. For training new technical individuals on Linux, source based distributions with package management systems that stay out of the way, are great tools. Even if the end of the road for many of them is some - keep your distance, GUI installer based, RPM Linux system. For a long time I used to think that starting a new user with a nice RPM based distribution was the right answer. I was wrong. It's the wrong answer. It teaches them nothing they can use in the future. It's painful during upgrades. It binds their hands in the shackles of - you will do things the way we tell you to do them. And letting new users utilize GUI based installers, always ends in - where is the install everything check box? They may migrate to another distribution, and that's fine. But they will be prepared and have knowledge. To use Holly's car analogy - they learned to drive a stick shift, but now want an automatic. No problem. (It's a poor analogy on my part - too simplistic and not fair to Portage.) Also, this isn't just the two interns. With only two exceptions - a Slackware user, and a remote Engineer who prefers to have Corp IS administrate the box, I've moved a lot of technical people to Gentoo. A few have gone to other dists, and a few have returned back to Gentoo - the others are just too painful to administer. But, in all cases, they are more knowledgeable because of having to do things the hard way. And being more knowledgeable make them much more valuable as skilled employees. More so than any certification will. Bob - -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list Hi Bob, I found your email really informative and I have a question regarding one of your final comments. To paraphrase, you state that doing things the hard way will make employees more knowledgeable, more so than any certification will. So, my question is this: is it worthwhile to obtain certification? And, if so, which would be a better choice in your opinion: Red Hat certification or say, for instance, certification from the Linux Professional Institute? Btw, I'm not sure if I have hijacked the thread. If so, please feel free to edit the subject line. Paul -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] [OT] Apache Virtual Host
On 9/4/05, A. Khattri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sorry to be blunt, but it really sounds like you dont really know whatyou're doing. You really need to read the docs on how to setup virtual hosts. There is nothing wrong with apache. Hmm... yes... I will bite my tongue before I make another troll comment. It's all about learning if you don't wanna help perhaps you should quietly observe the list and not insult people who are having problems. Just a thought. To Khattri's point, however, there is nothing wrong with Apache. I have run MANY Apache servers and have never had any showstopper issues. I have also read about and implemented many of the major features of Apache in many production environments which also helps. Again to Khattri's point RTFM it really does help. In any case if you would like to send me all your config files for Apache (the main httpd.conf and all the included files) off the list I will poke about through them and see if I can offer any other advice. If you don't wish to do that then I would suggest you start with a nice clean Apache (stock config files) and try your webapp install again. Don't over customize from the beginning, take it slow, make it work in baby steps, then go crazy! And feel free to ask on the lists... most people here with some knowledge of the software in question will try to help you out. -Mike-- Michael E. CruteSoftware DeveloperSoftGroup Development CorporationLinux, because reboots are for installing hardware.In a world without walls and fences, who needs windows and gates?
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo router redundancy via Ucarp?
James wrote: Hello, I'm still hacking at my first Linux firewall. I decided to build in redundancy, via CARP which replaces the cisco protocol VRRP. I like to develop 2 versions: This email primary covers the routing issues you're going to see. For the record the Cisco equivalent of VRRP is HSRP. Here's a little bit of history if you're interested. http://tcpmag.com/qanda/article.asp?EditorialsID=306 This link might be interesting if you decide to look into VRRP which you can run on Linux. http://siag.nu/pen/vrrpd-linux.shtml A. 2 redundant routers on one cable modem(static IP) drop. B. 2 redundant router each with a different network/circuit to the internet. 'UCARP' is in portage, and I was wondering: 1. Has anyone used 'ucarp' with iptables, willing to share configs? 2. How do you get your ethernet cards to reply to arp/mac requests with the same MAC address? A pci based ethernet card with programmable MAC address would be keen. If one does not exist, I'm quite tempted to do the layout, and develop the firmware (not a big deal). Suggestions as to which chips to use, so as to be able to use an existing driver from a 10/100 card (realtek?) would be keen. Any reasonable implementation should not be this complicated. In HSRP, I can't speak for ucarp, your real network interfaces have their hardware designated MAC addresses. When the virtual interface is created a new MAC address is generated and assigned to that IP only. This way the virtual IP and MAC can move easily between machines regardless of the MAC address of the real interfaces. I'd imagine that any VRRP-ish type system would do something similar. Getting into some black magic, IIRC and the details are pretty hazy, a state change in VRRP/HSRP would cause a gratuitous arp so that the switch could see that the MAC address had moved to another port. Some switches or firmware versions wouldn't respond correctly so traffic continued to the old port until arp times out or was manually cleared. Just something to watch out for if you're using low end gear... and even some high end gear has at times flubbed this. 5. Since my cable access provider scans MAC address and locks up my cable box(therefore I have to shut if off for 5 minutes upon changing the MAC address of my router) if different MACs are used, do you have a workaround for this? If you can get the cable modem to play nicely with the virtual IP and virtual MAC it should work. That might be fairly difficult if you're using DHCP. 6. If I implement UCARP on a network with 2 different wiring/circuits that support static TCP/IPs (cable modem and wireless T-mobile) how do I setup external routing to use both pipes, without BGP-4? Is this a for fun project or a if it breaks it'll cost me real money project? If it's for fun go nuts, but if this is a convoluted plan to get some sort of real redundancy you're probably going to be disappointed. Here's the rub, load balancing outbound traffic is easy. Turn on advanced routing in your kernel, recompile, reboot, add your two default gateways and you're now using both connections. IIRC Linux does per connection load sharing, not per packet so a single TCP stream can not use the aggregate connection speed of both pipes. However load balancing incoming traffic is hard even with BGP. I'd be very surprised if either of your ISP's let you run BGP with them other than announcing a default 0.0.0.0/0 route to you via a private AS number. Assuming you even get that far I'm positive that their filters are going to swallow any route announcement specific enough to modify your traffic. Without BGP you have no redundancy for incoming traffic. Here's an example. These are your static IP's cable 20.20.12.24 tmob 40.40.24.48 If I'm connected to the tmob IP and that connection goes down nothing you can do will send me to the other IP. I'd have to reconnect and hope round robin DNS might send me to the other IP this time. You could play DNS games, but the failover time for all clients is going to be pretty long. Going back to your original question, you can run two routers on a single connection and that should work reasonably well though be limited in the redundancy it can give you. Running two connections however is more problematic and may not be worth the trouble if you're trying to provide transparent failover for incoming connections. I can break this down into better examples if anything doesn't make sense. I don't know how much you know about routing and this could have easily grown into four or five pages giving all the background info. kashani -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo extras cd
On Mon, 5 Sep 2005 09:20:39 +1000 Justin Kelly wrote: Thanks all for the replies, I'll have a look at getdelta, I was more after something like where for Debian you can get the 12CD/4DVD set and just apt-get the packages locally. re Nick, just get a whole lot of binary packages on CD/DVD is what im after. Other than the packages cd that is released with each new gentoo release cycle I am not aware of anything for ppc. If you are on x86 there is http://chinstrap.alternating.net - although I am not usre if they are still alive - and you still need to download the binaries. However, and I will be frank here, if you are not able to download (either sources or binaries), and if you unwilling to compile stuff, gentoo may not be for you. :-) Cheers Justin Kelly -- Nick Rout [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- gentoo-user@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Slightly OT: favorite window manager/desktop environ?
[I just thought I'd chip in my two cents on the question of whether Linux is easy or hard. It's turned into more like my $11.62, so it's a good thing it's broken into sections.] Linux is easy. That's not to say that it can't be hard. Depending on what you're trying to do, you may have to be able to think like an engineer to get the desired results. But that doesn't detract from my previous statement. In general, Linux is easy. Allow me to explain my reasoning. Knoppix is easier than Windows. Koko the the sign-language gorilla could turn an OS-less computer into a feature-loaded Debian system by merely pressing two buttons and inserting a Knoppix CD. ANY idiot that has ever used Windows 95 can find their way around in KDE without help (that's not to say that Koko is an idiot, mind you). If Koko is familiar with Gaim, Firefox and OpenOffice.org from her Windows experience, she's instantly able to do in Linux what she spends 99% of her time doing in Windows (actually, I'm pretty sure Koko usually uses a Mac, but you get my drift). Out of the box Knoppix should be completely intuitive to anyone that has ever used a relatively recent version of Windows. Is KDE intuitive if you don't read from left to right, or email doesn't begin with an E in your language? Maybe not. It's probably not very intuitive to pygmy headhunters either. But I'd bet 90% of Windows and Mac users could figure out how to do everything they want to do in Knoppix in twenty minutes or less... they just have to be willing to try. (Knoppix might be beyond the abilities of some BSD people, though. ;-) Installing Linux can be easy. While a Windows user is twiddling her thumbs as Windows XP installs, Koko the gorilla is getting in a quick game of frozen-bubble as Debian is copied to the disk. If something goes wrong during the install, well Koko just opens up a browser and Googles the error message. Our person installing Windows has to find another working machine in order to do that. The only thing that might give Koko some trouble about the install is partitioning her disk. This must be done during a Windows install too, of course, but our Windows user only had to accept all of the defaults when she partitioned a disk during an install. Installing Linux USED to be hard. This is probably why so many people think Linux IS hard. I've tried Slackware, Redhat, Suse, Mandrake, Debian (and Lindows/Linspire), and probably others. FreeBSD too. For years and years I wanted to play with Linux, but I could never even get it installed. I think I tried to install Redhat about half a dozen times (each time a new version number was released or so) before I ever had a working graphical system. I think Redhat was up to version 6 or 7 when I finally managed to get it up and running to my satisfaction (I switched to Debian when Redhat started demanding subscription fees). Getting X configured properly was always a sticky issue. The monitor never had refresh rates listed on the back label. And I could never find the hard copy manual for the monitor either. I only had one computer so I had to power off, swap disks, boot into Windows, look for the refresh rates online, power off, swap disks, try installing Linux again, type in the refresh rates... But what's this? How the hell am I supposed to know the speed of my graphics card's RAMDAC?! WTF is a RAMDAC!? If Windows does this automatically anyway, why can't Linux! Screw this! Fortunately, Linux has come a long way since then. Installing Gentoo can be hard. I tried to install Gentoo on three different occasions. Just like with those ancient versions of other distributions, the first two times I attempted to install relatively recent copies of Gentoo I was thwarted by mysterious errors while having no ready access to the web (or even a proper GUI) for help. On the third occasion, unable to get the LiveCDs to work, I finally managed to get Gentoo installed from within Kanotix64. Each time I encountered an error, trusty Firefox was there to display the solution. I had to promise myself the reward of buying and installing Doom3 to get me to stick with it. Actually, the fact that Doom3 and AA were both in amd64 in portage is what finally pushed me towards trying Gentoo again (I erroneously assumed they would be 64-bit versions). Well, that and the prospect of effortless updates and the fact that REAL Linux men and women (and gorillas) install all their software from source. So getting Gentoo (circa 2004) installed was a challenge the likes of which I hadn't seen since Redhat version 5 and prior. But keeping it installed (solving every problem that came along without throwing up my hands and switching distros) has been easy. I owe that in part to the large and largely savvy Gentoo community. Getting Gentoo to do all of the things that I want has certainly been harder than in Knoppix. It's been harder
