Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 04:06:19PM +, James wrote Walter Dnes waltdnes at waltdnes.org writes: In your bash profile (if you use bash), howsabout export PS1='[\h][\u][\w]' Actually, I go for a fancy technicolour prompt export PS1='[\[\033[01;32m\]\h\[\033[00m\]][\[\033[01;34m\]\u\ [\033[00m\]][\[\033[01;36m\]\w\[\033[00m\]]' Either way, the host name shows up at the beginning of the prompt. I like to see the IP addresses of the systems I've sshd into. I work on a myriad of embedded and small systems, so IP addresses works best for me. In that case, try something like export PS1='[\[\033[01;32m\]192.168.0.1\033[00m\]][\[\033[01;34m\]\u\[\033[00m\]][\[\033[01;36m\]\w\[\033[00m\]]' If you have to determine it after logging in, you can export an environment variable to PS1, e.g. export PS1=[\$FOO]$ ***NOTE THE LEADING BACKSLASH*** See http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7359652/how-to-insert-an-environment-variable-inside-the-bash-prompt -- Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org I don't run desktop environments; I run useful applications
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 02:09:12 + (UTC), Martin Vaeth wrote: Screen and tabs are different solutions to different problems. When working with multiple SSH sessions to different machines, and not using ClusterSSH, I find it most convenient to have a tab for each host, with a screen session in that tab. I find nested tmux/screen sessions rather convenient, and use them regularly for that purpose (my setup nests them automatically, so I do not have to do anything manually). As does mine. It is not starting them I find inconvenient but using them is less convenient, for me, than a combination of tabs and screen. The main issue with nested screens being that the command keystrokes seemed to always go to the wrong instance of screen. It's just a question to get used to press Ctrl-aa instead of Ctrl-a for remote/chroot sessions. Up to the rare instances when I run a chroot within a remote session and thus have to press even Ctrl-aaa, this is something I do not even have to think about anymore. Had I found that approach more workable, I'm sure I could have trained me rather creaky muscle memory to do it, but Shift-Left/Right to switch between hosts and Ctrl-B N/P to switch between sessions on a host works extremely well. To go back to the OP's original point, having hostnames on the tabs also makes it obvious which sessions I have open. -- Neil Bothwick Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but only the pig enjoys it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Neil Bothwick neil at digimed.co.uk writes: That sounds nice but is a Bad Idea in the real world where most people judge things by the default setup. Turns off the nice features and 90+% of people trying the software don't see them. Really?, Try that approach at a carrier network support center, where new stuff is rolled out to cutomers without first explaing, warning and offering up options. It's shows a blatant disrespect for the existing customer base. Nobody in business, treats existing customers that way, imho. In industry, punks with that mentality get *FIRED* It seems to me you dumped KDE because it had too many features and now are complaining that LXDE's terminal is short on features. WRONG! I dumped KDE, like many others, because I got tire of wasting time trying to figure how what the hell happen each time a ran an upgrade, like legends of others. KDE seems to have a bit to much redmond mentality for my tastes. You like it, run it. I done with that time-sink you refer to as KDE. Note, I've use a myriad of qt based open source and commercial products on embedded systems. Those efforts do not mirror the attide of the KDE camp, you espouse so well. My LXDE environment is coming along fine. Actuall quite wonderful, at a fraction of the footprint. In fact, now that I am emersed in researching what I want and do not want, it's going to get setup *ONCE*. Then I do not have to piss away time on stupid idea that are IMPOSED upon me by others. By going the minimal approach, I'm also freeing up my GPU to use as a general purpose search/sort engine and I am quite looking forward to upcoming version of gcc to offload those sort of fuctions to the GPU. In fact, there is a very large movement of folks going back to basics on graphics and the destop enviorment, as these efforts play very well with the lighter resource offerings of a myriad of new embedded toys. So what you do on your desktop can easily be run also on a small net_appliance or internet device. with the user in control of their resources. Either run Konsole on LXDE or do wht you suggested the KDE devs do and run KDE with the eye candy turned off. The former is probably more sensible. no thanks. Raw X is just fine for my needs, wants and desires. In fact, it's quite refreshing when I install something like mixxx, cinelerra, or blender, I get a wonderful, full featured graphical experience, without bloatware. You could take a look at ROSA or Mageia, both of those distros have implemented KDE in a much nicer way, and you can always nick their themes and configs. So far, I have not found anything I want that cannot be added to LXDE/openbox. It's a bit of work. But knowing that only the minimal is installed, and the apps simply fly faster/better, leaves me bitter that I wasted so much time on KDE. It's a dog that needs a bath and to be put on a very restrictive diet, if it is to become a beneficial assset again. But, I'm an old C hack and detest most of the C++ code I look at, so I guess I am pre-disposed to the opinions of an old grouch. You like KDE, I'm glad. Know this, I ran that (pig) KDE for years and years, was very steeped in QT and have left for greener pastures(LXDE and openbox). If/when I find some I need or want, and it's not available, I'll just hack a patch and give it to whoever. After all, I still have a set of X11-R6 manuals in storage. Hell. with todays GPUs going back to pixmaps and basic logic constructs for pixel rendering is some old math I have not played with in decades And I'm lovin my desktop again. I have control! peace and good hunting, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 12:03:30 + (UTC), James wrote: That sounds nice but is a Bad Idea in the real world where most people judge things by the default setup. Turns off the nice features and 90+% of people trying the software don't see them. Really?, Try that approach at a carrier network support center, where new stuff is rolled out to cutomers without first explaing, warning and offering up options. It's shows a blatant disrespect for the existing customer base. Nobody in business, treats existing customers that way, imho. In industry, punks with that mentality get *FIRED* Yes, really. People boot a distro's live CD, maybe install it, and make quick decisions about whether they like it or not. It seems to me you dumped KDE because it had too many features and now are complaining that LXDE's terminal is short on features. WRONG! I dumped KDE, like many others, because I got tire of wasting time trying to figure how what the hell happen each time a ran an upgrade, I honestly don't have that problem. Possibly because I have configured so much of it that the system defaults never get a look in, changed or not. Note, I've use a myriad of qt based open source and commercial products on embedded systems. Those efforts do not mirror the attide of the KDE camp, you espouse so well. I've no idea what you are trying to say here. Either run Konsole on LXDE or do wht you suggested the KDE devs do and run KDE with the eye candy turned off. The former is probably more sensible. no thanks. Raw X is just fine for my needs, wants and desires. Like I said, but you seemed to ignore, run Konsole on LXDE to get all you need. I've found Konsole to be one of the best terminals out there, irrespective of whether you use KDE or not, although Terminology does look interesting. -- Neil Bothwick Scientists decode the first confirmed alien transmission from outer space ... This really works! Just send 5*10^50 H atoms to each of the five star systems listed below. Then, add your own system to the top of the list, delete the system at the bottom, and send out copies of this message to 100 other solar systems. If you follow these instructions, within 0.25 of a galactic rotation you are guaranteed to receive enough hydrogen in return to power your civilization until entropy reaches its maximum! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On 28/01/2014 14:28, Neil Bothwick wrote: Really?, Try that approach at a carrier network support center, where new stuff is rolled out to cutomers without first explaing, warning and offering up options. It's shows a blatant disrespect for the existing customer base. Nobody in business, treats existing customers that way, imho. In industry, punks with that mentality get *FIRED* Yes, really. People boot a distro's live CD, maybe install it, and make quick decisions about whether they like it or not. James isn't talking about whatever the latest flavour of the month happens to be that you like. He's talking about the firmware running on carrier core, or on the black box installed at the customer's edge. Or the company portal that lets our customers drill deep down into their traffic stats or do monitoring or investigate billing. I work in carrier and that shit is sacrosanct so change it at your peril. I really couldn't care what desktop the user runs today as I don't support any of them, just the API we present to the world. I think you are looking at this from the POV of a desktop end user, while James and I are talking about infrastructure that the end user only gets to use, never change. James's point is valid though - corporates like to claim they will never unleash shit like kdepim on an unsuspecting world and fire anyone who lets it slip through. That's what they say, in reality it happens all the time anyway. Which doesn't change that very few of the kdepim-4 releases should never have seen the light of day with a release tag -- Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 15:34:16 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: On 28/01/2014 14:28, Neil Bothwick wrote: Really?, Try that approach at a carrier network support center, where new stuff is rolled out to cutomers without first explaing, warning and offering up options. It's shows a blatant disrespect for the existing customer base. Nobody in business, treats existing customers that way, imho. In industry, punks with that mentality get *FIRED* Yes, really. People boot a distro's live CD, maybe install it, and make quick decisions about whether they like it or not. James isn't talking about whatever the latest flavour of the month happens to be that you like. He's talking about the firmware running on carrier core, or on the black box installed at the customer's edge. Or the company portal that lets our customers drill deep down into their traffic stats or do monitoring or investigate billing. I work in carrier and that shit is sacrosanct so change it at your peril. I really couldn't care what desktop the user runs today as I don't support any of them, just the API we present to the world. I think you are looking at this from the POV of a desktop end user, while James and I are talking about infrastructure that the end user only gets to use, never change. The question was about desktop usage, it was about moving from KDE to LXDE. How things work in a completely different environment is irrelevant, the rules are different. -- Neil Bothwick Politicians are like nappies Both should be changed regularly, and for the same reason signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Neil Bothwick neil at digimed.co.uk writes: Yes, really. People boot a distro's live CD, maybe install it, and make quick decisions about whether they like it or not. Thats a different opportunity/customer, than one that was a faithful and loyal customer. You cannot treat those (new customers) like you treat 'an old dog' or you are going to loose customers, every time. Note, I've use a myriad of qt based open source and commercial products on embedded systems. Those efforts do not mirror the attide of the KDE camp, you espouse so well. I've no idea what you are trying to say here. Sure you do, but I'll be simple here. KDE is built on QT. I have experince with QT and dozens of embedded products that use QT. None of those products resemble any sort of attitude, like KDE does. The bloated, poorly documented latest features, lets force it on the entire userbase by default, mentality does not exist in any of the QT based products I've been involed in. KDE's problems are the result of poor decisions made unilaterally by the KDE leadership, imho. Either run Konsole on LXDE or do wht you suggested the KDE devs do and run KDE with the eye candy turned off. The former is probably more sensible. no thanks. Raw X is just fine for my needs, wants and desires. Like I said, but you seemed to ignore, run Konsole on LXDE to get all you need. I've found Konsole to be one of the best terminals out there, irrespective of whether you use KDE or not, although Terminology does look interesting. The simple fact is I do not need a desktop enviroment that competes with the applications I choose and set up to be flashy and featurerich. That function is best left to the applications themselves, imho. Also, I disagree; Konsole is wonderful, but I do not want anything with K in it. Some of the postings below on this thread illustrate part of the problem (walter et. al.) some of the issues were configuring the collection of small config files under the ~./user section. I also found this little gem: x11-terms/mrxvt : Description: Multi-tabbed rxvt clone with XFT, transparent background and CJK support. My current machine is so fast (only partially(mostly?) due to dumping KDE); and i have yet to strip-small the kernel and overclock the processors. After all, if you remember, you gave me some solid advise on the water cooler setups, some time ago. Alan's little script-kiddy-ricers motivated me a while back to take another look at the ultimate ricer_kernel option. It's the simple -Os. Alan never even mentioned to his ricer offspring to try the -O3 option, as I think he want somebody else to send then on that odessy of wasted time. Now my puter, is skinny and getting ready to run hot with a small kernal and an openbox looknfeel. It's got me so motivated; I am actually waking up at 4am, just to play and shop for size 2 bikini applications for my new girl! Going minimal has this old_dog happy and howling at the moon again, on Friday nights.. You see in here Florida, we do rate, compare and (de)grade our computational resources. Minimal is always sexy, particularly with *ware. We are a gregarious lot and we do like to collect at the beaches to see what's hot and what's not.ymmv. peace and good hunting, James
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Walter Dnes waltdnes at waltdnes.org writes: I went all the way to ICEWM; see my sig. It's been a log time for me with minimal Window Managers. I'm sure I'll get around to testing icewm. In your bash profile (if you use bash), howsabout export PS1='[\h][\u][\w]' Actually, I go for a fancy technicolour prompt export PS1='[\[\033[01;32m\]\h\[\033[00m\]][\[\033[01;34m\]\u\ [\033[00m\]][\[\033[01;36m\]\w\[\033[00m\]]' Either way, the host name shows up at the beginning of the prompt. I like to see the IP addresses of the systems I've sshd into. I work on a myriad of embedded and small systems, so IP addresses works best for me. I'll look at what you have suggested. I'm looking for a default window tab option, like kconsole has, so that when I ssh into a system, it puts the IP adress into the tab, as the singular most important piece of information I want in that window tab's name field. The current dir on the target is also useful, but of optional secondary importance. I've read many of your postings and questions round the net on your minimal efforts. Most ideas and solutions that work on one configuration, will work on other minimal setups, imho. I think when I'm done, I'm going to put something up that bridges going from lxde-meta installed, to a feature rich, fast minimal environment. Maybe a list of ebuilds to install and all those little config files and scripts too. After the bugs are worked out, I might even roll it into an ebuild for a few folks to test via layman. All you need is an 'old box', to join in the fun. Purposefully so all (many) of these little tricks are aggregated and documented, in one place, for a first starting point for folks new to going minimal (lxde-meta). The gentoo wiki is my preferred home, but it might not fly there (will see). One stop shopping for a first, feature rich minimal configuration, or that's my thinking anyway. Arch linux has inspired me as to what user community documentaion can and should be; but I want docs gentoo specific. Not to imply that is the only way, but a fast, cool first way to minimize the time from ditching KDE to mininal environment happiness (fast and cool). Your input will be greatly appreciated, as will input from other like minded individuals. So anyone can post here(new thread) or email me privately a list of ebuilds and config file they think ought to be in this little (fast and cool) conversion offering. Thanks Walter, James
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 14:35:55 + (UTC), James wrote: Note, I've use a myriad of qt based open source and commercial products on embedded systems. Those efforts do not mirror the attide of the KDE camp, you espouse so well. I've no idea what you are trying to say here. Sure you do, Really, it didn't parse sensibly for me. but I'll be simple here. KDE is built on QT. I have experince with QT and dozens of embedded products that use QT. None of those products resemble any sort of attitude, like KDE does. The bloated, poorly documented latest features, lets force it on the entire userbase by default, mentality does not exist in any of the QT based products I've been involed in. KDE's problems are the result of poor decisions made unilaterally by the KDE leadership, imho. That makes sense. I still maintain that KDE does not force configuration changes on existing systems, ~/.kde4 trumps anything installed into /usr. However, I do agree with you about KDE's leadership and user relations. In many ways they are their own worst enemies. What's the point in writing good software then leaving it with a crap set of defaults so people have to tweak it to make it decent. It's like they want to leave all that mundane stuff to the distros, which doesn't work with Gentoo's policy of sticking close to upstream defaults. Like I said, but you seemed to ignore, run Konsole on LXDE to get all you need. I've found Konsole to be one of the best terminals out there, irrespective of whether you use KDE or not, although Terminology does look interesting. The simple fact is I do not need a desktop enviroment that competes with the applications I choose and set up to be flashy and featurerich. That function is best left to the applications themselves, imho. Fair enough, that's your choice. Personally, I think that a desktop environment, not necessarily KDE, that provide good interoperation between applications is important. I rarely single task, which is why I love terminal tabs and screen :) Also, I disagree; Konsole is wonderful, but I do not want anything with K in it. I take it you compile your own ernel then :) -- Neil Bothwick I thought the 10 commandments were multiple choice. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Neil Bothwick neil at digimed.co.uk writes: The question was about desktop usage, it was about moving from KDE to LXDE. How things work in a completely different environment is irrelevant, the rules are different. To Neil and Alan: These examples are trite and are simply and quickly offered up as examples on each others perspectives, irrespecitve of minutia. Old dogs snarl quite a bit, but do not move off of their haunches, unless sufficiently motivated. Its more fundamental simpler than that. You do not change another man's underware (metaphysically speaking here). You offer up new, exciting offerings, at his convenience or time of choosing and hope he likes what you are offering. That's the sort of analogy, thats most accurate, imho. WE can all wax poetic about do's and don't of trite examples: the point is it's not KDE place to change *MY* anything, unless I want it by taking specific action or they use a proper roll out semantic. KDE lost site of that, and many astute folks have left for greener pastures. QT/Nokia going over to the dark side (aka MicroSoft) has not helped KDE either. WE're all three right, each from our perspectives. (can I get a hug?) I'm quite certain that the 3 of us, have deep experience with five nines and such. KDE has become a joke, imho. You want my repect, show me something, with math, HA, redundancy, or 9+ type of performance. Most of the rest quacks and woddles, so do not argue with me for shooting at the (KDE) ducks. peace and good hunting, James
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Neil Bothwick neil at digimed.co.uk writes: I take it you compile your own ernel then :) (OOCH)(grin)
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: To go back to the OP's original point, having hostnames on the tabs also makes it obvious which sessions I have open. If you use an appropriate prompt as I have recommended (which modifies [hard] status line) you see the sessions in the tabs of tmux - only that by default they appear at the bottom (I suppose that this could also be changed) and that you use ctrl-a space to switch them.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 17:53:58 + (UTC), Martin Vaeth wrote: To go back to the OP's original point, having hostnames on the tabs also makes it obvious which sessions I have open. If you use an appropriate prompt as I have recommended (which modifies [hard] status line) you see the sessions in the tabs of tmux - only that by default they appear at the bottom (I suppose that this could also be changed) and that you use ctrl-a space to switch them. I haven't used tmux for a while, I tried it and went back to screen, but does it really show the titles of all sessions? Screen only shows the current one. -- Neil Bothwick Nobody's perfect and since I'm nobody...! signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 16:44:32 + (UTC), James wrote: To Neil and Alan: These examples are trite and are simply and quickly offered up as examples on each others perspectives, irrespecitve of minutia. Old dogs snarl quite a bit, but do not move off of their haunches, unless sufficiently motivated. I like that one :) WE can all wax poetic about do's and don't of trite examples: the point is it's not KDE place to change *MY* anything, unless I want it by taking specific action or they use a proper roll out semantic. KDE lost site of that, and many astute folks have left for greener pastures. QT/Nokia going over to the dark side (aka MicroSoft) has not helped KDE either. Oh, I got rid of the semantic stuff years ago. I try to put my files in logical folders, and for when I don't there are always find, grep and panic - in that order. As I said, I've tried other desktops before, I know KDE uses a lot of resources, but I always found them wanting. I was messing with a live CD today and saw a KDE/Openbox option in the login options. So I installed Openbox on my desktop machine and that option appeared. I still get my KDE apps but with Openbox instead of Plasma and KWin, and first impressions are that it is much faster. I may find something I can't do without by tomorrow, and it doesn't look as nice (yet) but this may be just the compromise that suits me. Discussions like this are useful in getting you to explore other options, even if you have tried to before. -- Neil Bothwick Keyboard: (n.) a device used by programmers to write software for a mouse or joystick and by operators for playing games such as 'word processing.' signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote:
I haven't used tmux for a while, I tried it and went back to screen, but
does it really show the titles of all sessions?
On the hardstatus line you see in tmux all sessions
with their numbers and their hardstatus line.
[More precisely, you see all windows which in tmux (in contrast to screen)
is a different concept than a session. Their hardstatus line means:
Whatever the corresponding shell has set it to]
Screen only shows the current one.
In tmux the hardstatus line is enabled by default.
In screen you need to enable it. Of course, I forgot how I did
this many years ago, but I suppose that the following two lines
in my screenrc are responsible:
hardstatus alwayslastline
hardstatus string %{= kg}%-Lw%{+b gy}%50%n*%f %t%{-}%+Lw%
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 20:21:33 + (UTC), Martin Vaeth wrote:
Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote:
I haven't used tmux for a while, I tried it and went back to screen,
but does it really show the titles of all sessions?
On the hardstatus line you see in tmux all sessions
with their numbers and their hardstatus line.
Maybe it's time to give tmux another go, but you won't get me away from
tabs :)
Screen only shows the current one.
In tmux the hardstatus line is enabled by default.
In screen you need to enable it. Of course, I forgot how I did
this many years ago, but I suppose that the following two lines
in my screenrc are responsible:
hardstatus alwayslastline
hardstatus string %{= kg}%-Lw%{+b gy}%50%n*%f %t%{-}%+Lw%
Yes, that is annoying, as is screen's use of Ctrl-A, which is why I
always add this to /etc/screenrc
escape ^bB
# Set the caption on the bottom line
caption always %{= kw}%-w%{= BW}%n %t%{-}%+w %-= @%H - %LD %d %LM - %c
--
Neil Bothwick
Politicians are like nappies
Both should be changed regularly, and for the same reason
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Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 18:11:57 + (UTC), James wrote: I went from duo core AMD systems to FX-8350 with 32 gigs of ram. My bigest adversion/experience with KDE is this. The genius that runs that project, could have developed all of those wonderful ideas, but left them turned off by default. That sounds nice but is a Bad Idea in the real world where most people judge things by the default setup. Turns off the nice features and 90+% of people trying the software don't see them. It seems to me you dumped KDE because it had too many features and now are complaining that LXDE's terminal is short on features. Either run Konsole on LXDE or do wht you suggested the KDE devs do and run KDE with the eye candy turned off. The former is probably more sensible. Every now and then, I try a lighter desktop and always find myself missing some feature of KDE and has me running back to it. Yes, the default configuration is a bit cack, but once set up the way yu want, it stays that way. You could take a look at ROSA or Mageia, both of those distros have implemented KDE in a much nicer way, and you can always nick their themes and configs. -- Neil Bothwick Being defeated is a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: I have my lxde/openbox environment mostly setup. One thing I miss is feature rich tabbed terminal session. I suggest that you try tmux (or screen) - this is far superiour to multitab since you can easily also put it to the background or access it remotely. My default zsh login files start a tmux session automatically (so did my previous bash login files with screen, but I do not use bash anymore for an interactive shell). the tabs where customizable to show current dir or rename manually. When I would ssh into a remote system, the IP address was prominently displayed in the tab header; essential for managing tons of remote devices. This is all a question of setting an appropriate prompt which also sets the terminal title correspondingly. I suggest that you have a look at e.g. app-shells/set_prompt from the mv overlay. One last problem is my lxtermnal session do not remember their previous screen location or size (geometry) Probably for every terminal program there are corresponding Xresources. For instance, for xterm, I have set XTerm.VT100.Geometry: 80x25 Alternatively you can specify -geometry on the command line. Probably it is possible to write something which saves the current geometry somewhere. I find this always disturbing, and one of my first configuration fixes in KDE (when I was still using it) had always been to turn off this misfeature... I would encourage any and all without tons of free ram, to ditch KDE (dunno about gnome)... ++
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote: you know - I don't give a rat's ass about 'pig' or not, because: I have enough ram. Ram is cheap. 16gb of DDR 1600 ECC costs what? 160€? Cheap. What kind of argument is this? I do not consider it cheap to spend 160 bucks only to waste them for nothing. *If* I should spend 160 bucks for ram, then I would want to use this ram for: calculations, image manipulation, many parallel tasks, or whatever have been my reasons to spend 160 bucks. Certainly not for wasting it to unnecessary bloat: This would mean to spend 160 buck to get ... eehmm ... what? An even slower system? 11GB used. Great. What a pointless waste. My laptop has 512MB, my small PC 1GB, and my large PC 2GB. Especially the large one is reasonably fast (with a sane windows manager) and is used for all tasks a desktop is typically used for - including a *lot* of multimedia, firefox, emacs, tex, gcc; usually several instances of all these in parallel. Only in *very* rare situations ram gets low, so I do not really feel any restriction due to 2GB only.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
On Tue, 28 Jan 2014 01:20:59 + (UTC), Martin Vaeth wrote: I suggest that you try tmux (or screen) - this is far superiour to multitab since you can easily also put it to the background or access it remotely Screen and tabs are different solutions to different problems. When working with multiple SSH sessions to different machines, and not using ClusterSSH, I find it most convenient to have a tab for each host, with a screen session in that tab. My default zsh login files start a tmux session automatically I found this incredibly messy when running one screen session on the local machine, with each terminal connected to a different host, which in turn ran screen (like you, my profile loads or starts a screen session for SSH logins). The main issue with nested screens being that the command keystrokes seemed to always go to the wrong instance of screen. -- Neil Bothwick Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: I suggest that you try tmux (or screen) - this is far superiour to multitab since you can easily also put it to the background or access it remotely Screen and tabs are different solutions to different problems. When working with multiple SSH sessions to different machines, and not using ClusterSSH, I find it most convenient to have a tab for each host, with a screen session in that tab. I find nested tmux/screen sessions rather convenient, and use them regularly for that purpose (my setup nests them automatically, so I do not have to do anything manually). The main issue with nested screens being that the command keystrokes seemed to always go to the wrong instance of screen. It's just a question to get used to press Ctrl-aa instead of Ctrl-a for remote/chroot sessions. Up to the rare instances when I run a chroot within a remote session and thus have to press even Ctrl-aaa, this is something I do not even have to think about anymore. Even if I should be unsure, a look at the bottom of the screen shows me immediately which nesting level I am in.
[gentoo-user] Re: xterms --featureRICH --suggestions?
Volker Armin Hemmann volkerarmin at googlemail.com writes: you know - I don't give a rat's ass about 'pig' or not, because: I have enough ram. Ram is cheap. 16gb of DDR 1600 ECC costs what? 160€? Cheap. zfs eats so much, the amount KDE is using is negligible. At the moment I run one firefox instance with 29 flash heavy windows 3 instances of konqueror with douzends of tabs. thunderbird. two hungry java apps. assorted crap. 11GB used. I went from duo core AMD systems to FX-8350 with 32 gigs of ram. My bigest adversion/experience with KDE is this. The genius that runs that project, could have developed all of those wonderful ideas, but left them turned off by default. That way, at a pace controlled by the individual user, we could have read, researched and invoked what we wanted, at an individualized pace. In stead evey time I did an upgrade, I spent hours/days of wasted time turning off something I did not even want. Stupid, imho, as myself and many others have permanently left KDEKDE=PIG, imho. Besides, a new upcoming areas of network security is these bloated desktop apps. It's not even a guaranteed that spending decades of time deploying SeLinux can make a bloated KDE workstation secure, particularly for the myriad of users, imho. YMMV. But the big 'offender' seems to be: zfs. Excellent point. While my documented frustations with the KDE/grub2 et al. issues recently (actually over a year now) in this list, I was experimenting with file systems too, including zfs. I've decided to explore btrfs in lieu of zfs. zfs is a bit of smoke and mirrors as the the ownership and goals of commercial interest controls over zfs are disturbing to me. The leadership of gentoo do not even intend to integrate it into gentoo-proper, for a variety of reasons. I think it's great as a technology (ZFS), but it's not a shining example of public license owned nor a open collection of devs with clean hands imho. So I have chosen to pursue btrfs, which some have suggested is now stable enough, as the abysmal current raid systems on ext4 is one of the biggest kludges of all time, imho. So, boy do I have ram, aplenty now, and it feels GREAT. It not all due to ditching KDE, but there were many other reasons to ditch kde. You like KDE/GNOME, that s fine. I like LXDE, as it reminds me of decades ago, when the desktop was strictly a user controlled Xcelent adventure. peache and good hunting, James
