Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
Dan Farrell wrote: On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:05:07 +0200 pk wrote: gentoo.org works for me (both this afternoon, around 15.00 and right now, 20.03). f.g.o. also works right now. g-w.com also works. Your're all right; the gentoo.org thing must have been a transient hiccough somewhere between me and them. Forum is working fine too. I was too quick to criticize. Also, gentoo-wiki _just_ came back up, apparently. Nevertheless I think anyone who uses it agrees that it goes down _too_much_. I know, these aren't the gentoo people on the wiki. I'm more concerned with the hole it leaves when it disappears than I am with pointing fingers. I'd like to see the conversation about Gentoo hosting docs in a wiki rather than the XML stuff we've got now picked up again. My time is limited and I'm not going to learn a whole doc system when I can just fix the docs in a tenth of the time it takes to even figure out where to get the Gentoo docs in order to edit them. Hell someone can wiki -> xml the thing and create official releases every couple of months while the wiki docs continue on as unstable releases. kashani
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On 12:28 Fri 14 Aug, Daniel da Veiga wrote: > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 09:38, Volker Armin > Hemmann wrote: > > On Freitag 14 August 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote: > >> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote: > >> > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on > >> > them is not acceptable. > >> > >> If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need, > >> you should demand your money back! > > > > I have to add that the gentoo foundation acts quickly and refunds all the > > money you paid for their services without any fuss. > > > > And from this whole thread, the conclusion is: > > If you can't do it better, don't complain at all. (specially when its for > free) > > > -- > Daniel da Veiga > There is a forum for Gentoo at Linuxquestions.org. If forums.gentoo.org is down too much, the mailing list and irc can't handle the problem, and the wiki is unreliable, LQ.org is another possible source, though the number of people there seems minimal.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 09:38, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > On Freitag 14 August 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote: >> On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote: >> > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on >> > them is not acceptable. >> >> If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need, >> you should demand your money back! > > I have to add that the gentoo foundation acts quickly and refunds all the > money you paid for their services without any fuss. > And from this whole thread, the conclusion is: If you can't do it better, don't complain at all. (specially when its for free) -- Daniel da Veiga
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Freitag 14 August 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote: > > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on > > them is not acceptable. > > If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need, > you should demand your money back! I have to add that the gentoo foundation acts quickly and refunds all the money you paid for their services without any fuss. ;)
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 13:09 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote: > > > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on > > them is not acceptable. > > If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need, > you should demand your money back! > And if you want something done right, do it yourself!
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote: > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on > them is not acceptable. If something so important to you fails to provide the service you need, you should demand your money back! -- Neil Bothwick c:>Press Enter to Exit signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thursday 13 August 2009 22:29:52 Joseph wrote: > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on them > is not acceptable. If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT; > regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else. You are completely missing the point about the wiki. The Gentoo Foundation does not own gentoo-wiki. It is privately run. It cannot move it, rehost it, improve it or have any appreciable effect on it in any way (other than mailing the real owner and asking nicely). The Gentoo Foundation can no more influence the wiki than it can influence DistroWatch, Ubuntu or Microsoft's web site. So can we all please stop being confused and assuming something different, and wondering why Gentoo does not guarantee the wiki? IT DOES NOT BECAUSE IT CANNOT. TO EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT LIKE IT, THAT'S TOUGH. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thursday 13 August 2009 21:55:44 Paul Hartman wrote: > I believe gentoo.org uses Neustar UltraDNS, whose business exists for > the purpose of providing high-availability DNS Well I certainly hope that their actual technical infrastructure is better than their marketing FUD. I'm being directly targeted by Neustar's marketing machine but they are clever and not actually mentioning the company by name. I have customer's complaining that the Neustar sales rep tells them privately that @ALANS_EMPLOYER has crap DNS, and now the customer wants reassurance. Which is a conversation I should never be having. Facts say otherwise though. 3 distributed auth servers across the planet, one hidden primary pushing updates out, 12 caches distributed across the planet, all in anycast so the customer automatically finds the closest one. Not just customer records either - that system runs a TLD and two 2TLDs. Uptime is 1000+ days, and we have never had a DNS outage (and not from lack of trying by the bad guys). Inadequate DNS infrastructure? No, Neustar, I don't think so. In my country, you can't even come close to what I have. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
RE: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
> Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely > heavily on them is not acceptable. > If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT; > regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else. Cool. So you're volunteering to pay for it right?
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:12:07 +0200 Alan McKinnon wrote: > So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something > that Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one > actually DOES? > That is exactly my question. Is it important to do something, is it wise, and what would that be? I was thinking mirroring, of some kind...
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:29:52 -0600, Joseph wrote: > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on > them is not acceptable. If the current sever is not reliable (and it is > NOT; regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else. Which server: gentoo.org, the forums or gentoo-wiki.com? The forums were down last week in an announced transition and down again for a short while earlier this week as a result of a glitch, probably arising fro the transition. gentoo.org was not down and gentoo-wiki.com is a completely unrelated site. You demand that "it" (whichever site that is) is moved, yet complain about downtime when the only downtime was due to Gentoo doing just what you demand :-O -- Neil Bothwick If you think the problem is bad now, just wait until we've solved it. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thursday 13 August 2009 18:05:24 Dan Farrell wrote: > Last week the gentoo forums went down. Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. > > Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down. > > What's the deal? What are we to do about this shoddy hosting? Just calm down, learn now not to whinge pathetically, twiddle your thumbs for a few minutes and try again. And stop making such a lot of noise to keep all us dinosaurs awake. HAND. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 14:29 -0600, Joseph wrote: > On 08/13/09 21:12, Alan McKinnon wrote: > > >So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something that > >Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one actually > >DOES? > > Had a cancel/board[sic] meeting and see if it is possible to host gentoo.org > with somebody who is more reliable. > I'm sure there are alternatives, especially if you post it on the forum you > will have more than few willing to offer hosting help. > > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on them is > not acceptable. > If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT; regardless if it is free > or not) move it somewhere else. I think the consensus has been firstly that Gentoo.org isn't down, and that it was down recently but hasn't been down a lot. Secondly, what Alan was saying is that if there is a problem with gentoo-wiki.com then the people at Gentoo.org are powerless over that.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Donnerstag 13 August 2009, Joseph wrote: > On 08/13/09 21:12, Alan McKinnon wrote: > >So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something that > >Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one actually > > DOES? > > Had a cancel/board meeting and see if it is possible to host gentoo.org > with somebody who is more reliable. I'm sure there are alternatives, > especially if you post it on the forum you will have more than few willing > to offer hosting help. > > Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on them > is not acceptable. If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT; > regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else. forums are reliable. There are hardly any downtimes. Ok, there was the one last week. So what? And the forums are high traffic. I doubt that this kind of load is covered by the usual end user hosting services. And gentoo-wiki. Stop blaming gentoo and ask the guy running it, how to help him.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On 08/13/09 21:12, Alan McKinnon wrote: So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something that Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one actually DOES? Had a cancel/board meeting and see if it is possible to host gentoo.org with somebody who is more reliable. I'm sure there are alternatives, especially if you post it on the forum you will have more than few willing to offer hosting help. Having Gentoo.org forum or wiki down when most of us rely heavily on them is not acceptable. If the current sever is not reliable (and it is NOT; regardless if it is free or not) move it somewhere else. -- Joseph
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Dan Farrell wrote: > Last week the gentoo forums went down. Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. > > Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down. > > What's the deal? What are we to do about this shoddy hosting? The deal: Gentoo forums went down recently because MySQL crashed and could not be restarted normally, apparently. They were down a week earlier when the servers were moved from Oregon State University to a hosting company in Canada (gossamer-threads.com). I'm not sure if they physically moved the servers or if they moved the data to all-new servers. If the latter, maybe that partially explains the MySQL issues; perhaps they are still working out the new setup. I believe gentoo.org uses Neustar UltraDNS, whose business exists for the purpose of providing high-availability DNS and hosting for huge companies (I think they provide services to Amazon and Oracle), it seems like Gentoo.org should be in good hands there. Gentoo-wiki.com is a user-run site and whether it is up or down has nothing to do with the gentoo.org sites. (Mike Valstar, whose site it is, also runs gentoo-portage.com). There is a mirror of the old gentoo-wiki.com articles at gentoo-wiki.info which might get you by in a pinch if the g-w.com is down or if you're looking for an old article was lost. What are we to do? If you or anyone else have any ideas to improve the, or donations of money, mirrors, better equipment or hosting, I'm sure gentoo web team (or Mike V. for the wiki) would be happy to listen. :)
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thursday 13 August 2009 20:22:41 Dan Farrell wrote: > On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:01:53 +0200 > > Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > > gentoo-wiki has nothing to do with gentoo.org. > > > > Nothing. > > Sure, they're completely seperate ... officially. But that's not the > point. For good or for ill, gentoo-wiki is - or at least used to be > before the hosting fiasco late last year - a well respected and > commonly used source of gentoo information. So it doesn't do much for > the community, IMHO, for it to be appearing and dissapearing, sucking > up all the good authors for its articles, and then taking all the > documentation away at the most inopportune times So what do you suggest? I mean, other than whinging about something that Gentoo can do absolutely nothing about, what do you suggest one actually DOES? -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:05:07 +0200 pk wrote: > gentoo.org works for me (both this afternoon, around 15.00 and right > now, 20.03). f.g.o. also works right now. g-w.com also works. Your're all right; the gentoo.org thing must have been a transient hiccough somewhere between me and them. Forum is working fine too. I was too quick to criticize. Also, gentoo-wiki _just_ came back up, apparently. Nevertheless I think anyone who uses it agrees that it goes down _too_much_. I know, these aren't the gentoo people on the wiki. I'm more concerned with the hole it leaves when it disappears than I am with pointing fingers.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:01:53 +0200 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: > gentoo-wiki has nothing to do with gentoo.org. > > Nothing. Sure, they're completely seperate ... officially. But that's not the point. For good or for ill, gentoo-wiki is - or at least used to be before the hosting fiasco late last year - a well respected and commonly used source of gentoo information. So it doesn't do much for the community, IMHO, for it to be appearing and dissapearing, sucking up all the good authors for its articles, and then taking all the documentation away at the most inopportune times
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 12:05 -0500, Dan Farrell wrote: > Last week the gentoo forums went down. Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. > > Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down. > > What's the deal? What are we to do about this shoddy hosting? > Gentoo.org works for me. IIRC gentoo-wiki.com is not an official Gentoo site and is not formally associated with the Gentoo project. They don't share any infrastructure. So other than both being Gentoo-oriented, the two sites going down are unrelated. Most of Gentoo's servers, IIRC, are hosted via donated resources, e.g. OSL at Oregon State University on their dime. So unless someone wants to shell out to move gentoo.org to a dedicated hosting company than can gaurantee five 9s for some major cash, I suggest we be a little more patient/forgiving. -a
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
Dan Farrell wrote: > Last week the gentoo forums went down. Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. > > Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down. > > What's the deal? What are we to do about this shoddy hosting? gentoo.org works for me (both this afternoon, around 15.00 and right now, 20.03). f.g.o. also works right now. g-w.com also works. Best regards Peter K
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
On Donnerstag 13 August 2009, Dan Farrell wrote: > Last week the gentoo forums went down. Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. > > Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down. > > What's the deal? What are we to do about this shoddy hosting? gentoo-wiki has nothing to do with gentoo.org. Nothing. So have a nice day.
Re: [gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:05:24PM -0500, Dan Farrell wrote: > Last week the gentoo forums went down. Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. > > Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down. I just went to www.gentoo.org and got the web site with no problem, and I'm also on irc with no problem,. - -- William Hubbs gentoo accessibility team lead willi...@gentoo.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkqETG8ACgkQblQW9DDEZTi55wCeO+wWI8NRl6MyLVqBXVmE1lB1 rAsAn0g8TlzA8qVuukzMgHuAYG0h6pGJ =3oVO -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[gentoo-user] gentoo sites go down too much!
Last week the gentoo forums went down. Then gentoo-wiki.com went down. Now it seems as though all of gentoo.org is down. What's the deal? What are we to do about this shoddy hosting?
