Thank you to all that have responded ... and I've now found one answer to my own question
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Thank you
At the risk of irritating with noise, i'll say it anyway: MANY thanks for keeping this app going! ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Thank you - great work ....
Wonderful restoration of get_iplayer - thank you. All works well - even the Cache Refreshes fly. BTW I'm using Windows PVR Manager. Only small point is that at the end of a record there are hundreds of these - which slows down the Run PVR: size= 116kB time=00:00:07.39 bitrate= 129.0kbits/s size= 163kB time=00:00:10.34 bitrate= 128.7kbits/s size= 207kB time=00:00:13.19 bitrate= 128.6kbits/s size= 246kB time=00:00:15.70 bitrate= 128.5kbits/s size= 277kB time=00:00:17.65 bitrate= 128.4kbits/s size= 310kB time=00:00:19.74 bitrate= 128.4kbits/s size= 342kB time=00:00:21.81 bitrate= 128.3kbits/s size= 373kB time=00:00:23.79 bitrate= 128.3kbits/s size= 407kB time=00:00:25.96 bitrate= 128.3kbits/s size= 441kB time=00:00:28.18 bitrate= 128.3kbits/s size= 473kB time=00:00:30.19 bitrate= 128.2kbits/s size= 507kB time=00:00:32.39 bitrate= 128.2kbits/s size= 539kB time=00:00:34.43 bitrate= 128.2kbits/s size= 572kB time=00:00:36.57 bitrate= 128.2kbits/s size= 607kB time=00:00:38.76 bitrate= 128.2kbits/s CJB ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank you - great work ....
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 14:12:27 +, SquarePenguin wrote: Only small point is that at the end of a record there are hundreds of these - which slows down the Run PVR: size= 116kB time=00:00:07.39 bitrate= 129.0kbits/s size= 163kB time=00:00:10.34 bitrate= 128.7kbits/s Aren't those the transcoding rate indicators? After download it transcodes (I think that's the right word) the flv to mp4 and spits out the progress reports above. Transcode is the word I'd use for the format conversion. B-) Not sure if you're using a Raspberry Pi but the conversion bitrate looks to me like it simply indicates low powered hardware so the conversion is taking a while to complete. I run get_iplayer on Raspberry-Pi and the bit rate shown during transcoding a HD download is normally around 2500kbits/sec which I have always taken to be the bitrate of the resultant stream. It also reports a fps which normally has value of around a couple of 100. If the bit rate was that of the conversion it would be an awful lot higher than 2.5 Mbps... What does happen is that after a while the line grows 1 character longer due to a count going from 999 to 1000+. This then forces the terminal onto a new line, so you end up with this report scrolling up the screen rather than over printing the existing one. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank you - great work ....
On Fri, 07 Nov 2014 16:45:57 + (GMT) Dave Liquorice allso...@howhill.com wrote: I run get_iplayer on Raspberry-Pi and the bit rate shown during transcoding a HD download is normally around 2500kbits/sec which I have always taken to be the bitrate of the resultant stream. It also reports a fps which normally has value of around a couple of 100. If the bit rate was that of the conversion it would be an awful lot higher than 2.5 Mbps... That explains it. I tested on a download before I commented and even saw the frame rate sit about 8000 (on a core i5) and should have made the leap that the bitrate was that of the stream and not the conversion. That's clarified it for me. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank you - great work ....
On Fri Nov 7 14:12:27 GMT 2014, SquarePenguin wrote: After download it transcodes (I think that's the right word) the flv to mp4 With respect SP, transcodes refers to change of video and/or audio codec (from one codec to another codec - this involves decoding the first codec and encode with a different codec, e.g. WMV+WMA - Xvid+MP3). This is a time consuming and resource heavy process. What GiP does with video files is a simple change of container formats, from the Adobe proprietary FLash Video container to the more compatible with standalone players MP4 container; I think remux (short for re-multiplex) is the term that better describes this... size= 116kB time=00:00:07.39 bitrate= 129.0kbits/s size= 163kB time=00:00:10.34 bitrate= 128.7kbits/s Aren't those the transcoding rate indicators? 128kbps is the mean value of the bitrate of the flashaacstd audio mode; most probably, this is ffmpeg output from the remuxing process of the initial FLV container to the MP4 one (which, for audio streams, uses the Apple introduced .m4a file extension). Unless the OP (CJB) has --aactomp3 in his options file, in which case it should be (as you say) ffmpeg output from the transcoding process of the AAC-LC audio stream (contained in the FLV file) to the end MP3 audio stream (GiP by default encodes to MP3@128kbps CBR). Cheers, Vangelis. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank you - great work ....
On 7 Nov 2014 at 14:12, SquarePenguin SquarePenguin getipla...@squarepenguin.co.uk wrote: On 7 Nov 2014, at 13:21, CJB wrote: Only small point is that at the end of a record there are hundreds of these - which slows down the Run PVR: size= 116kB time=00:00:07.39 bitrate= 129.0kbits/s size= 163kB time=00:00:10.34 bitrate= 128.7kbits/s Aren't those the transcoding rate indicators? After download it transcodes (I think that's the right word) the flv to mp4 and spits out the progress reports above. Not sure if you're using a Raspberry Pi but the conversion bitrate looks to me like it simply indicates low powered hardware so the conversion is taking a while to complete. I have found the transcode speed (or lack of) is influenced more by the disk speed than processor speed. Example, I have a desktop and laptop with same 2.0GHz Core CPU, albeit laptop is the slower mobile version. While the desktop is 4 or 5 times faster at completing a handbrake encode. The laptop does the GiP flv to mp4 in around 1/4 the time of desktop. Both are XP Pro, 2GB Ram, but laptop has a 5,400 SATA 3 Seagate Hybrid HDD vs 7,200 SATA 1 Seagate HDD in desktop. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank you - great work ....
On Fri Nov 7 21:16:37 GMT 2014, SquarePenguin wrote: I'm conflating terms and mixing up file types and all sorts. (snip) I can never remember which one means what There's not much to it, really... A container is a file format that contains (elementary) audio and/or video streams (it is possible only a video stream is contained, but it's less common...). Picture the container as a small paper box that contains a 50 GBP banknote (representing the video stream) and a 5 GBP banknote (representing the audio stream). REMUXING would be to take out the banknotes and repackage them into a small tin box. TRANSCODING both video and audio would be to take out the GBP banknotes, take them to a bank, buy US dollars equal in value to 55 GBP and put the dollars bought inside a tin box. Usually transcoding involves a change of container, too, but this is not a condition; the AVI and, most notably, the MKV (Matroska) container can support a great variety of media streams (= AV codecs...). Hope I made it clearer for you and others... Vangelis. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Thank You
Just joined the list to say a *BIG* thank you to the maintainers for getting the search/PVR functionality back into get_iplayer so quickly. When get_iplayer --pvr failed to work the other day and I saw the message in tv.cache I thought that was it. B-( Using the pid or URL method worked but would have been a PITA to use long term. So thank you again. -- Cheers Dave. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 4 November 2014 01:51, Peter S Kirk peter.k...@isauk.biz wrote: Email a complaint to the Ministry of Fun aka Incredibly ill-though out idea. regarding: 1. The double speak in: ...designed to clamp down on clients such as XBMC or get_iplayer, which allow programmes to be watched or recorded. The iPlayer team continues to work hard to maximise access to the iPlayer across a wide range of platforms and devices. What they ACTUALLY wrote: The iPlayer RSS feeds were never designed or intended to support them, Billings added. Nitro will almost certainly not support their ways of working. Do you really not see the difference between what you wrote - designed to clamp down on - and what the beeb wrote - were never designed or intended to support? It's this kind of knee-jerk, butt-hurt everyone on the outrage bus reaction which'll get this whole project shut down, if anything does. The answer lies in intelligent technical resolutions, not teenage rebellious emails to an entirely irrelevant government body. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 04/11/14 01:51, Peter S Kirk wrote: After all, GiP is no different from the old method of recording TV to VCR or Radio to cassette tape. Isn't that the point, by using GIP we are only using another type of recording device to record content from the BBC. I could buy a DigitalTV today, connect a external HD to it and record digital TV and store it for as long I wish. The only difference by using GIP is that I am recording programs that have been aired in the past 30 days, not live broadcasts. Would it be worth trying to start some dialogue with the BBC (not sure if this has already been tried ?) to see if there is a way they (GIP developers) could work together and have GIP as a recognised 3rd party product or just accepted for Nitro. As it has proved in the last few days, the BBC changes things people will find a way to get over these changes, by closing doors, it only makes people more determined. If the BBC wanted to they could shut down GIP today by appling DRM to all content streaming (like Netflix and Prime) so I cannot see by starting any dialogue, how that would change anything as they already know about GIP, we are not telling them something they don't know about. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
I'm amazed at these discussions. The issue for the BBC is one of the protection of intellectual property. Yes, the problem has been around since recording devices became available but since the advent of digital technology it has spiralled out of all belief as a problem to the copyright holder. Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape (whether audio or video). It enables us to make copies faster than ever before, even without ever holding that medium in one's hands. We've seen how the film studios have been clamping down on piracy. The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of get_iplayer, but I think protestations of the sort described in these threads will fall on deaf ears. Just be thankful we have people with the technical ability to keep up with whatever barriers are put our way! Alan On 04/11/2014 09:18, wacla...@btconnect.com wrote: On 04/11/14 01:51, Peter S Kirk wrote: After all, GiP is no different from the old method of recording TV to VCR or Radio to cassette tape. Isn't that the point, by using GIP we are only using another type of recording device to record content from the BBC. I could buy a DigitalTV today, connect a external HD to it and record digital TV and store it for as long I wish. The only difference by using GIP is that I am recording programs that have been aired in the past 30 days, not live broadcasts. Would it be worth trying to start some dialogue with the BBC (not sure if this has already been tried ?) to see if there is a way they (GIP developers) could work together and have GIP as a recognised 3rd party product or just accepted for Nitro. As it has proved in the last few days, the BBC changes things people will find a way to get over these changes, by closing doors, it only makes people more determined. If the BBC wanted to they could shut down GIP today by appling DRM to all content streaming (like Netflix and Prime) so I cannot see by starting any dialogue, how that would change anything as they already know about GIP, we are not telling them something they don't know about. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 04/11/14 09:54, Alan Milewczyk wrote: I'm amazed at these discussions. The issue for the BBC is one of the protection of intellectual property. Yes, the problem has been around since recording devices became available but since the advent of digital technology it has spiralled out of all belief as a problem to the copyright holder. Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape (whether audio or video). It enables us to make copies faster than ever before, even without ever holding that medium in one's hands. We've seen how the film studios have been clamping down on piracy. The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of get_iplayer, but I think protestations of the sort described in these threads will fall on deaf ears. Just be thankful we have people with the technical ability to keep up with whatever barriers are put our way! Alan On 04/11/2014 09:18, wacla...@btconnect.com wrote: On 04/11/14 01:51, Peter S Kirk wrote: After all, GiP is no different from the old method of recording TV to VCR or Radio to cassette tape. Isn't that the point, by using GIP we are only using another type of recording device to record content from the BBC. I could buy a DigitalTV today, connect a external HD to it and record digital TV and store it for as long I wish. The only difference by using GIP is that I am recording programs that have been aired in the past 30 days, not live broadcasts. Would it be worth trying to start some dialogue with the BBC (not sure if this has already been tried ?) to see if there is a way they (GIP developers) could work together and have GIP as a recognised 3rd party product or just accepted for Nitro. As it has proved in the last few days, the BBC changes things people will find a way to get over these changes, by closing doors, it only makes people more determined. If the BBC wanted to they could shut down GIP today by appling DRM to all content streaming (like Netflix and Prime) so I cannot see by starting any dialogue, how that would change anything as they already know about GIP, we are not telling them something they don't know about. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer The mistake you and they are making is that it can somehow be protected and so is worth a fortune. It cant and so it isn't. As you say they could shut down GIP today but that would not stop anything they broadcast or make available appearing on 'pirate' sites immediately. If I can watch it on TV or in iPlayer I can make a perfect copy of it irrelevant of the DRM. The DRM merely inconveniences everyone - it does not achieve any form of IP security. They are wasting their time - and the licence payers but barely anyone elses. This is the message that should be going out. OH that an a big thanks again DP! Tom ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 4 November 2014 09:54, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: ...The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. No, it is not /their/ content it is /ours/. The British people own the BBC so the content belongs to us. Though where the copyright is owned by others (artists etc) or they have royalty rights, then those issues also need to be addressed. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 04/11/2014 10:09, Tom wrote: The mistake you and they are making is that it can somehow be protected and so is worth a fortune. It cant and so it isn't. As you say they could shut down GIP today but that would not stop anything they broadcast or make available appearing on 'pirate' sites immediately. If I can watch it on TV or in iPlayer I can make a perfect copy of it irrelevant of the DRM. The DRM merely inconveniences everyone - it does not achieve any form of IP security. They are wasting their time - and the licence payers but barely anyone elses. This is the message that should be going out. OH that an a big thanks again DP! Tom I never said it could be protected, the very opposite! But surely you can't blame them for trying to protect their assets. How about this analogy... Any home security expert will tell you there is no such thing as 100% security but what you do to protect your property is to make it as difficult as you can (afford) rather than abandoning it and throwing open your doors and windows. DRM is part of that cat and mouse game, but, as you say, there is always someone who finds a way around it! Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape ... But it's a perfect copy of an imperfect (compressed, loss of detail etc) source I'd think they'd be more concerned about digital tv recorders where what's recorded is whatever the tv set received. -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
But they will certainly disagree that their content belongs to you and that you have unfettered rights over it. That's what the LOL was for! A On 04/11/2014 11:11, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 11:01, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: LOL, try arguing that in a court of law! ;-) I don't see what is LOL about it, and no court is going to disagree with the statement that the BBC belongs to the State. Colin On 04/11/2014 10:25, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 09:54, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: ...The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. No, it is not /their/ content it is /ours/. The British people own the BBC so the content belongs to us. Though where the copyright is owned by others (artists etc) or they have royalty rights, then those issues also need to be addressed. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8507 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8507 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 4 November 2014 11:18, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: But they will certainly disagree that their content belongs to you and that you have unfettered rights over it. That's what the LOL was for! I did not say it belongs to me, I said it belongs to the British people. Also I did not say we had unfettered rights, I pointed out that copyright and royalty issues prevent that. Colin A On 04/11/2014 11:11, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 11:01, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: LOL, try arguing that in a court of law! ;-) I don't see what is LOL about it, and no court is going to disagree with the statement that the BBC belongs to the State. Colin On 04/11/2014 10:25, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 09:54, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: ...The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. No, it is not /their/ content it is /ours/. The British people own the BBC so the content belongs to us. Though where the copyright is owned by others (artists etc) or they have royalty rights, then those issues also need to be addressed. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8507 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8507 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 11/04/2014 09:54 AM, Alan Milewczyk wrote: We've seen how the film studios have been clamping down on piracy. The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. The intellectual property considerations are real. However, for many of us, the superset of what is actually already legally available would be just fine - it's just that the implementation blows enough that it's functionally useless. For example - I can download and watch programs on my android tablet for up to 30 days - it's just that it doesn't properly resume if it gets interrupted - so I typically have to try to download several times - and I can't do this with my linux PC. Personally, if there was a cross-platform gip-like thing, which did not allow saving past 30 (or 7) days, and had a more sane (and accessible, for those blind and other users) interface - I suspect many would welcome this. Similarly - a small extra fee on the licence which allowed much less restriction as to what you can view. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
Yawn, is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour? On 04/11/2014 11:33, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 11:18, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: But they will certainly disagree that their content belongs to you and that you have unfettered rights over it. That's what the LOL was for! I did not say it belongs to me, I said it belongs to the British people. Also I did not say we had unfettered rights, I pointed out that copyright and royalty issues prevent that. Colin A On 04/11/2014 11:11, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 11:01, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: LOL, try arguing that in a court of law! ;-) I don't see what is LOL about it, and no court is going to disagree with the statement that the BBC belongs to the State. Colin On 04/11/2014 10:25, Colin Law wrote: On 4 November 2014 09:54, Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: ...The BBC is sitting on a massive treasure trove. What makes anyone think they will give this up willingly. Ignoring the technical limitations of the BBC iPlayer, the BBC lets us enjoy THEIR content for a limited period. What we have with get_iplayer is a way of circumventing the restrictions the BBC puts on us. No, it is not /their/ content it is /ours/. The British people own the BBC so the content belongs to us. Though where the copyright is owned by others (artists etc) or they have royalty rights, then those issues also need to be addressed. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 04/11/14 12:54, Ian Stirling wrote: ... - so I typically have to try to download several times - and I can't do this with my linux PC. I was able to do this on my Ubuntu Linux system using the older get_iplayer. I was once prompted to use the --force option whan wanting to download a programme that I had downloaded previously and then deleted. -- Sent from Ubuntu Unity ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 4 November 2014 13:49, Ian Tomkinson ian.tomkin...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Colin Law clan...@gmail.com wrote: I did not say it belongs to me, I said it belongs to the British people. Also I did not say we had unfettered rights, I pointed out that copyright and royalty issues prevent that. I'm afraid that's not true for the majority of BBC content. It is produced by independent companies and licensed to the BBC for a period of time. They can't just allow any old access they wish without potentially breaking agreements undertakings with content producers. Is that not what I said? Copyright and royalty issues prevent unfettered rights. Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 09:54:47 + Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: I'm amazed at these discussions. I wonder how many BBC people are actually subscribed to the list. And I'm not angling for a list admin to look, it is private. But there's gotta be some lovies watching, at least :) The issue for the BBC is one of the protection of intellectual property. Yes, the problem has been around since recording devices became available but since the advent of digital technology it has spiralled out of all belief as a problem to the copyright holder. Technology has moved on and what protections made sense are now much more questionable. In the past ownership was granted and then generally money was made off distribution. Tech has nailed much of the value provided by those that used to find artists, record them, and get that into our hands on bits of plastic. The protections have gotten so huge too over the decades of IP industries that I think UK copyright is life of the author plus 70 years! Contemporary culture stands to largely be locked up for generations. There is problem for non-copyright holders too. I dunno how to reward artists and producers for their labours, but the system we have now and where it looks to be going is IMHO increasingly unrealistic. Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape (whether audio or video). It enables us to make copies faster than ever before, even without ever holding that medium in one's hands. Mills made hand spinning obsolete, it enabled perfect copies to made faster than ever before, etc.. I am no bloody libertarian though, I hate to see people's livelihoods vanish. So when I say I dunno how to reward people I mean it! I hate to play a blunt economic card when livings are at stake. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of get_iplayer, but I think protestations of the sort described in these threads will fall on deaf ears. Just be thankful we have people with the technical ability to keep up with whatever barriers are put our way! Which is the irony of the enforcement of OTT IP. The restrictions won't ever truly work - even with some closed network, server and client system the end-user could still video the screen. And how much is a phone these days that can video something? :) But if you see that barriers aren't worth it because things have changed, then perhaps you can see why I think the system driving desire for those barriers might need changing? Nick ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
I don't disagree with anything you say, Nick. I'm just taking the devil's advocate position from the viewpoint of film studios, BBC etc etc, i.e. the media producers. But yes, we currently have an untenable King Canute situation - the waves of technology have been destroying previous generations for many years, technology and its ramifications can't be halted or uninvented! It's interesting how in the old days, many successful recording artists did well with royalties but nowadays as so little music is bought as CD, their earnings are maintained by going on tour and doing their live appearances. In the 60s and 70s we didn't have large stadiums in the UK - we only had theatres/cinemas with seating of two or three thousand at the most. Nowadays the larger cities have venues of ten times that size now. However, the old studio business model is increasingly harder to justify so heaven knows how new talent can be nurtured and remunerated. Alan On 04/11/2014 15:58, Nick wrote: On Tue, 04 Nov 2014 09:54:47 + Alan Milewczyk a...@soulman1949.com wrote: I'm amazed at these discussions. I wonder how many BBC people are actually subscribed to the list. And I'm not angling for a list admin to look, it is private. But there's gotta be some lovies watching, at least :) The issue for the BBC is one of the protection of intellectual property. Yes, the problem has been around since recording devices became available but since the advent of digital technology it has spiralled out of all belief as a problem to the copyright holder. Technology has moved on and what protections made sense are now much more questionable. In the past ownership was granted and then generally money was made off distribution. Tech has nailed much of the value provided by those that used to find artists, record them, and get that into our hands on bits of plastic. The protections have gotten so huge too over the decades of IP industries that I think UK copyright is life of the author plus 70 years! Contemporary culture stands to largely be locked up for generations. There is problem for non-copyright holders too. I dunno how to reward artists and producers for their labours, but the system we have now and where it looks to be going is IMHO increasingly unrealistic. Digital gives us the unprecedented ability to make a perfect copy, not a lossy copy as with tape (whether audio or video). It enables us to make copies faster than ever before, even without ever holding that medium in one's hands. Mills made hand spinning obsolete, it enabled perfect copies to made faster than ever before, etc.. I am no bloody libertarian though, I hate to see people's livelihoods vanish. So when I say I dunno how to reward people I mean it! I hate to play a blunt economic card when livings are at stake. Don't get me wrong, I am a massive fan of get_iplayer, but I think protestations of the sort described in these threads will fall on deaf ears. Just be thankful we have people with the technical ability to keep up with whatever barriers are put our way! Which is the irony of the enforcement of OTT IP. The restrictions won't ever truly work - even with some closed network, server and client system the end-user could still video the screen. And how much is a phone these days that can video something? :) But if you see that barriers aren't worth it because things have changed, then perhaps you can see why I think the system driving desire for those barriers might need changing? Nick ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5315 / Virus Database: 4189/8509 - Release Date: 11/04/14 ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
Nick get_ipla...@i.lucanops.net wrote: Which is the irony of the enforcement of OTT IP. The restrictions won't ever truly work - even with some closed network, server and client system the end-user could still video the screen. And how much is a phone these days that can video something? :) In the 1990s the pro-audio industry had something called SCMS (usually pronounced scums) - the Serial Copy Management System which made it impossible to make digital copies of digital sound files; there were bits set in the audio stream which told recorders not to record the audio. It caused a lot of problems in the pro-audio industry itself, and in due course SCMS strippers became available - little boxes that you'd pass a digital audio stream through, which would remove the relevant bits but leave the audio untouched. Studios bought the boxes so they could continue to work with whatever a client brought in. Some pro gear had DIP switches on the back so they could be configured to set/ignore the SCMS bits... In other words it was circumventable. More detail at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_Copy_Management_System -- Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
A big thank you
to dinkypumpkin for all that hard work. What i don't get (and maybe someone can enlighten me here) is that there appears to be a number of BBC-sanctioned clients other than iPlayer itself which have needed to be patched and in some cases have, successfully. How? Would it be a question of resorting to using schedules rather than feeds (like GIP's patching) or is there some BBC 'fast track' index that's being used? ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: A big thank you
Charles Johnson cehjohn...@gmail.com wrote to dinkypumpkin for all that hard work. And from here - thank you. -- Richard ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Thank You
Thank you to everyone involved for fixing get_iplayer, I can now get back to downloading CBeebies for my little ones to watch over and over again. Is there a donation link anywhere? I'd like to buy you all a drink. Charles -- Charles Holding ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
- Original Message - From: Charles Holding cjhold...@gmail.com To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 7:27 PM Subject: Thank You Thank you to everyone involved for fixing get_iplayer, I can now get back to downloading CBeebies for my little ones to watch over and over again. Is there a donation link anywhere? I'd like to buy you all a drink. Charles -- Charles Holding I totally support Charles's comments above, although in my case not for Cbeebies! If I can make a donation either to the GiP maintainers (in particular dp), or to a nominated charity, I would happily do so. Having installed 2.90 the PVR works, but for some reason this weekend's F1 programmes are missing. I have downloaded the using the PID and CLI, but am puzzled why they aren't in the cache? Any ideas? In gratitude Don Grunbaum (incidentally in computing since 1967, when it was data processing). ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 03/11/2014 19:43, Don Grunbaum wrote: Having installed 2.90 the PVR works, but for some reason this weekend's F1 programmes are missing. I have downloaded the using the PID and CLI, Fixed in Git for next release. If you want it now: https://github.com/dinkypumpkin/get_iplayer/wiki/installation Git Head section ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
- Original Message - From: dinkypumpkin dinkypump...@gmail.com To: get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Thank You On 03/11/2014 19:43, Don Grunbaum wrote: Having installed 2.90 the PVR works, but for some reason this weekend's F1 programmes are missing. I have downloaded the using the PID and CLI, Fixed in Git for next release. If you want it now: https://github.com/dinkypumpkin/get_iplayer/wiki/installation Git Head section Double thank yous! Don ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 03/11/14 19:27, Charles Holding wrote: Thank you to everyone involved for fixing get_iplayer, I can now get back to downloading CBeebies for my little ones to watch over and over again. Is there a donation link anywhere? I'd like to buy you all a drink. Charles My thought too. Budgie ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
A belated thank you to DP....
...for restoring normal service, you've no idea how much it is appreciated. Thank you again Alan ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank You
On 3 Nov 2014 at 20:57, Don Grunbaum Don Grunbaum d...@grunbaum.co.uk wrote: - Original Message - From: dinkypumpkin Sent: Monday, November 03, 2014 8:43 PM Subject: Re: Thank You On 03/11/2014 19:43, Don Grunbaum wrote: Having installed 2.90 the PVR works, but for some reason this weekend's F1 programmes are missing. I have downloaded the using the PID and CLI, Fixed in Git for next release. If you want it now: https://github.com/dinkypumpkin/get_iplayer/wiki/installation Git Head section Double thank yous! Don Dinky and all others who have helped with overcoming the changes BBC have made a Huge thank you for your great work which is very much appreciated. After reading theregister story and the comments I had a thought: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/11/03/beeb_clamps_down_on_naughty_iplayer_ watching/ Email a complaint to the Ministry of Fun aka https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-culture-media- sport regarding: 1. The double speak in: ...designed to clamp down on clients such as XBMC or get_iplayer, which allow programmes to be watched or recorded. The iPlayer team continues to work hard to maximise access to the iPlayer across a wide range of platforms and devices. 2. The fact that iPlayer is only available to UK residents unless BBC allow open access to a show, so using GiP, XBMC etc is no different to using NowTV, Smart TV etc. 3. As such BBC should not be wasting license fee payers' money on developing methods to prevent third party solutions to improve license fee payers' and UK residents' access to BBC material in a format that suits their users. After all, GiP is no different from the old method of recording TV to VCR or Radio to cassette tape. I liked this comment: They need to get rid of all middle managers who cannot come up with a meaningful answer to what did you do, today, to make things better for licence fee payers Cheers, Peter 15GB + 5GB bonus Free cloud storage, no credit card details required: https://copy.com?r=ccgBsB 5GB bonus for both for using referal link If you do not receive the 5GB bonus contact copy support and email me too Cloud storage space and app provided by https://www.barracuda.com Files are stored on Barracuda's own servers, not amazon/aws or other third party as most including Dropbox use ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank you
On 18 February 2013 00:23, Peter S Kirk peter.k...@isauk.biz wrote: Dinkypumpinkin and the rest of the crew who work or have worked on updating and improving get_iplayer and it's plugins (rtmp dump etc) A big thank you for all your hard work, it is much appreciated by me and I'm sure by countless others too. +1 Colin ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Re: Thank you
On 18/02/2013 09:25, Colin Law wrote: On 18 February 2013 00:23, Peter S Kirk peter.k...@isauk.biz wrote: Dinkypumpinkin and the rest of the crew who work or have worked on updating and improving get_iplayer and it's plugins (rtmp dump etc) A big thank you for all your hard work, it is much appreciated by me and I'm sure by countless others too. +1 Colin +9000! GiP's one of my must-have apps on any machine I get to use. ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
Thank you
Dinkypumpinkin and the rest of the crew who work or have worked on updating and improving get_iplayer and it's plugins (rtmp dump etc) A big thank you for all your hard work, it is much appreciated by me and I'm sure by countless others too. A special Thanks to Phil Lewis for his work creating get_iplayer Thank you all Peter ___ get_iplayer mailing list get_iplayer@lists.infradead.org http://lists.infradead.org/mailman/listinfo/get_iplayer
