Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
Tomek, I too was very upset about the menu but I'm not anymore because of the TAB key. With the new design, I can have all of my windows for art and just press TAB and the toolbox and the dialogs go away leaving free access to the art. When I need to click something in the toolbox or a layer dialog, I just hit TAB again and they're back and on top. Meanwhile I have free access to the menus all the time at the top of the drawing surface. Even more often, I don't even reach up for the menu because the right click menu has whatever I need without having to reach up to the top of the window. This works whether I'm using a mouse, my touchpad on my laptop, or have my Wacom tablet plugged in doing serious work. The workflow is now faster, easier and more intuitive. So, now I'm calmed down. The thing I was so mad about won me over. I hope it does for you to. Single window mode is wonderful too with a couple of caveats I warn about below. I use it now on Linux. The only difference is that the toolbox and dialogs are attached to the sides of the art. I still press TAB and make them go away now so I have the most free surface. There's still a fairly serious usability issue that comes in only when using single window mode, but they don't promise they have the usability all worked out yet in 2.7. Here's the problem. When you press TAB not only do the toolbox and dialogs go away, but it rudely resizes your drawing surface to the size of the image and moves the window so that whatever was under your cursor is no longer under it. I didn't ask for that, it's just something the programmer threw in as a sadistic effect. It combines in insidious ways with the use of autoraise. (Autoraise makes whatever window is under the cursor become active and raise above other windows when you pause over it for a short while.) If you're working on a small image like an icon or button for a web site, it strikes: 1) You press TAB 2) The toolbox and dialogs disappear - good. 3) The nice big drawing surface that you sized just how you wanted it (on purpose!) resizes small and to one corner of the screen. The image is suddenly no longer under your cursor! It not only resizes but moves! The bigger your screen and the smaller the image the more startling this is. (Maybe the top left stays where it was and all the rest moves up to it, I don't know or care, I just want it to not apparently resize, nor move. If that means they have to really move it over by the amount of the width of the vanishing toolbox, so what, it's a simple calculation. The drawing surface should appear to be the same size, and the image I'm working on in the same place, after the sides disappear. If they want to make it bigger to use the space that toolbox and dialogs freed up that's acceptable too, as long as the image stays in the same place under my cursor and the drawing surface at least the same size. Just don't go all tiny on me!) 4) Whatever other window you had behind GIMP (maybe a fullscreen web browser that you flip to when you need a break or to do some research) is now to your surprise under the cursor and autoraises and covers the drawing surface. There's actually time to move over and keep that from happening if you're not too surprised, but the window is now a tiny thing over in the top left! It's nowhere NEAR your cursor! When would THAT ever be your hearts desire? No! You would obviously want the same pixel that WAS under your cursor to STILL be under your cursor. It's MUCH worse than having to reach up for a menu. It's mean and intrusive. 5) Wail and gnash the teeth pulling out the hair and cursing the programmer. I don't have any idea why they decided the thing to do is to resize the drawing surface to the image size when hiding the toolbox and dialogs. They don't when you aren't using the single window mode, and there seems no reason for it. Probably just a brain fart. Hopefully they'll work that out before 2.8. The only other remaining issue I have is that GIMP forgets that you wanted single window mode each time you tuck it away. It's funny that I was so attached to the toolbar menu. When I first started to use GIMP I hated it. There was a menu on the drawing window and a menu on the toolbar. I had no idea which to use for what and it was just confusing. Eventually the bad interface became familiar and I knew where everything was and then when it was gone I was UPSET! lol. The one now is really better. best regards, Patrick ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
[Gimp-developer] where is this string in practice (from quick-mask-commands.c)
I like to know where (or how) can I see this string in practice: #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:105 msgid Quick Mask Attributes #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:108 msgid Edit Quick Mask Attributes #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:110 msgid Edit Quick Mask Color #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:111 msgid _Mask opacity: Thank you, Cristi -- Cristian Secară http://www.secarica.ro ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] where is this string in practice (from quick-mask-commands.c)
2010/10/25 Cristian Secară wrote: I like to know where (or how) can I see this string in practice: #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:105 msgid Quick Mask Attributes #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:108 msgid Edit Quick Mask Attributes #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:110 msgid Edit Quick Mask Color #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:111 msgid _Mask opacity: 1. Open an image 2. Use Shift+Q to create Quick mask 3. Go to Channels dialog 4. Right-click on QUick mask channel 5. Choose topmost menu item Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] where is this string in practice (from quick-mask-commands.c)
On Mon, 2010-10-25 at 19:03 +0300, Cristian Secară wrote: I like to know where (or how) can I see this string in practice: #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:105 msgid Quick Mask Attributes #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:108 msgid Edit Quick Mask Attributes #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:110 msgid Edit Quick Mask Color #: ../app/actions/quick-mask-commands.c:111 msgid _Mask opacity: There's a button in the lower left of the image window between the ruler and the scroll-bar. It has a right-click menu that allows to open a dialog to configure the Quick Mask attributes. I believe that's where these strings are being used. Sven ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
Hello Patrick, Thank you for the Tab hint. I have tested it a bit more and well its pretty good I must admit - I have one window, I can spread windows/images across many desktops and the toolbars are following the windows. There is no toolbox I got used to, but I can minimize this no-window, hide other boxes with Tab and get the menu by right click, so this is pretty much toolbox-menu alike behavior except I have to click more - this is not a big issue -and I have my functionality back, a bit different way. For the new design the toolbox and toolbars could be hidden by default not to mislead old users - otherwise I automatically look for a menu in the toolbox, when no toolbox is visible I quickly find no-window menu. When the no-menu is the only window and its pretty small its almost like old toolbox ;-) As you can see for my technical drawings/edition the most important was the menu, not the toolbox itself - this is why I was so upset for removing it with no option to put it back... and some additional window only disturbed my work. When the functionality is there, well the rest can look totally different and I can change my habits to click somewhere else, as my input to the GIMP development haha ;-) I also have some remarks to the window focus issues that you experienced: - if you have focus problem - this may be caused by a window manager - I am using xfce4 and I have set those settings to make windows behave as expected in gimp: click to focus (instead focus follows mouse), give focus to new windows and most important raise windows that receive focus. - in the preferences / window management there is an option to activate focused image - this also may help you - I am not sure how this works on windows Also I have some improvement idea - there is an option to save windows position - this could also obey to the toolboxes and toolbars visibility, so after GIMP is restarted only the no-window is visible and no need to press Tab key. The window size is being remembered on my Unix box, so when I start GIMP and have only no-window and its almost like in the old GIMP, when both no-window is visible and the toolbox - this is a bit confusing to me. This could be made as an option - when user close application with toolbox/toolbars invisible - they are also hidden after program restart - or they are alsways visible on start (checbox maybe?). I think the dinosaurs can like this option ;-) Best regards, Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
On 10/25/2010 05:19 PM, Patrick Horgan wrote: 1) You press TAB 2) The toolbox and dialogs disappear - good. 3) The nice big drawing surface that you sized just how you wanted it (on purpose!) resizes small and to one corner of the screen. I thought I fixed this long ago and I can't reproduce it. What version of GIMP are you using? You might want to try to reproduce this is the latest nightly snapshot: ftp://gimptest.flamingtext.com/pub/nightly-tarballs/ (temporarily off-line at the moment) / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Nightly GIMP, GEGL, babl tarball builds ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
On 10/25/2010 09:30 PM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: Also I have some improvement idea - there is an option to save windows position - this could also obey to the toolboxes and toolbars visibility, so after GIMP is restarted only the no-window is visible and no need to press Tab key. This already fixed in git, the 'Windows' image menu has a 'Hide Docks' check box menu item and its state is preserved across sessions. / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Nightly GIMP, GEGL, babl tarball builds ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Martin Nordholts ense...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/25/2010 09:30 PM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: Also I have some improvement idea - there is an option to save windows position - this could also obey to the toolboxes and toolbars visibility, so after GIMP is restarted only the no-window is visible and no need to press Tab key. This already fixed in git, the 'Windows' image menu has a 'Hide Docks' check box menu item and its state is preserved across sessions. Perfect! So it looks that you got another one on the dark side ;-) Besr regards, Tomek -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
On Monday, October 25, 2010 22:45:16 Martin Nordholts wrote: On 10/25/2010 05:19 PM, Patrick Horgan wrote: 1) You press TAB 2) The toolbox and dialogs disappear - good. 3) The nice big drawing surface that you sized just how you wanted it (on purpose!) resizes small and to one corner of the screen. I thought I fixed this long ago and I can't reproduce it. What version of GIMP are you using? You might want to try to reproduce this is the latest nightly snapshot: ftp://gimptest.flamingtext.com/pub/nightly-tarballs/ This happened to me quite recently if I worked with maximized image window. It snaps out of maximize and back into any size it was before. It happens whenever I close an image or open one too. --Alexia ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
On 10/25/10, Alexia Death wrote: This happened to me quite recently if I worked with maximized image window. It snaps out of maximize and back into any size it was before. It happens whenever I close an image or open one too. Or it takes you to the last opened tab in single-window mode after some actions like resizing. Alexandre Prokoudine http://libregraphicsworld.org ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
On 10/25/2010 12:50 PM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Martin Nordholtsense...@gmail.com wrote: This already fixed in git, the 'Windows' image menu has a 'Hide Docks' check box menu item and its state is preserved across sessions. Perfect! So it looks that you got another one on the dark side ;-) lol! GIMP just keeps getting better and better. Thank you guys! Now if the single window mode was just preserved across sessions! Patrick ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
On 10/25/2010 12:30 PM, Tomek CEDRO wrote: Hello Patrick, Thank you for the Tab hint. You're welcome. I have tested it a bit more and well its pretty good I must admit - I have one window, I can spread windows/images across many desktops and the toolbars are following the windows. That was what sold me as well. There is no toolbox I got used to, but I can minimize this no-window, hide other boxes with Tab and get the menu by right click, so this is pretty much toolbox-menu alike behavior except I have to click more - this is not a big issue -and I have my functionality back, a bit different way. For the new design the toolbox and toolbars could be hidden by default not to mislead old users - otherwise I automatically look for a menu in the toolbox, when no toolbox is visible I quickly find no-window menu. You can also use the drawing surface menu just like you did the toolbox menu. For me, it's just often easier to use the right click (context) menu because then I don't have to move the cursor. When the no-menu is the only window and its pretty small its almost like old toolbox ;-) As you can see for my technical drawings/edition the most important was the menu, not the toolbox itself - this is why I was so upset for removing it with no option to put it back... and some additional window only disturbed my work. I completely understand. It's a bit of a shock to the system. You get in years of habit and now what you did no longer works and for me at least, there was this fear that all the learning I'd done was wasted and I would have to learn a completely new paradigm. Luckily, it turned out not to be true. The things I was used to are still there mostly, and actually arranged in a more logical fashion. When the functionality is there, well the rest can look totally different and I can change my habits to click somewhere else, as my input to the GIMP development haha ;-) Yeah, it's easy to embrace actually, since it's really an improvement. The thing I hate the most is to have to take my hands off the keyboard when using a mainly keyboard app, or to move to some strange place to accomplish something when using a mostly gui app. Both stop the flow of work, and in that regard, the new interface is a huge improvement, though it took me awhile to admit it. I hate change. I also have some remarks to the window focus issues that you experienced: - if you have focus problem - this may be caused by a window manager - I am using xfce4 and I have set those settings to make windows behave as expected in gimp: click to focus (instead focus follows mouse), give focus to new windows and most important raise windows that receive focus. - in the preferences / window management there is an option to activate focused image - this also may help you - I am not sure how this works on windows Yes, I also don't know how it works on Windows, but I'm sure something similar is available. Oddly to many, on my Ubuntu box, I do focus follows mouse on purpose. I got in the habit on Solaris with X-Windows in the late 80s. As long as the delay is just the right length before the focus shifts it makes things flow marvelously for me. If the delay is too short it's completely unusable accidently shifting focus all the time, and if the delay is too long it's intrusive making me wait to shift focus. It saves me one click. I just have to hover over something and it raises and receives focus. It's not for all, and it works better with a larger screen so you can see bits and pieces, but I've come to love it. My complaint wasn't about the behavior, but about how the unexpected resizing of the drawing surface in GIMP interacted with it. Also I have some improvement idea - there is an option to save windows position - this could also obey to the toolboxes and toolbars visibility, so after GIMP is restarted only the no-window is visible and no need to press Tab key. The window size is being remembered on my Unix box, so when I start GIMP and have only no-window and its almost like in the old GIMP, when both no-window is visible and the toolbox - this is a bit confusing to me. This could be made as an option - when user close application with toolbox/toolbars invisible - they are also hidden after program restart - or they are alsways visible on start (checbox maybe?). I think the dinosaurs can like this option ;-) That's there already, although it still doesn't remember single window mode. Best regards, Tomek And best regards to you to Tomek, Patrick ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
Re: [Gimp-developer] menu back in the toolbox
On 10/25/2010 10:26 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On 10/25/10, Alexia Death wrote: This happened to me quite recently if I worked with maximized image window. It snaps out of maximize and back into any size it was before. It happens whenever I close an image or open one too. Or it takes you to the last opened tab in single-window mode after some actions like resizing. I know positioning is broken for other use cases, like when creating a new image (and thus tab) in swm, but I can't reproduce it with Tab, including in a maximized image window. Anyway, I will make sure this is fixed when I finish the single-window mode implementation... / Martin -- My GIMP Blog: http://www.chromecode.com/ Nightly GIMP, GEGL, babl tarball builds ___ Gimp-developer mailing list Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
